WEBVTT


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[Speaker 0]: And I think we are live.

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Hello again, everyone.

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And hi, Lovro. How are you doing?

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[Speaker 1]: Just a second. Should I join the other room?

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[Speaker 0]: Oh, no, no, you can stay here.

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[Speaker 1]: I can stay in the backstage.

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[Speaker 0]: Everything is fine. I don't think you are

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technically in the backstage right now you're

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just in Big Blue Button with us.

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[Speaker 1]: Oh thanks. Oh because I have 2 of them open I

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thought there were 2 different rooms.

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1 is the backstage and the other,

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[Speaker 0]: whichever, I can hear you and so can the

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stream, so don't worry too much about which

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is the backstage and which is the front page.

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[Speaker 1]: I have no idea. Well, great,

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great. Okay, yeah. Yeah,

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I'm doing great, just to answer your

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question.

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[Speaker 0]: Okay, great, great, Okay,

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well splendid. So, I've pasted a link again

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on IRC if you want to ask your questions,

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and I'd invite you to do so,

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because we have about 9 minutes of laborious

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time to answer as many of them as possible.

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And I'm going to start with the first 1.

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This looks great and was very well-presented.

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Do you have plans to upstream this

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functionality into Emacs?

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[Speaker 1]: That's a good idea. That's something we

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thought about as well.

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Currently, we haven't really contacted anyone

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to do this. Also, the current implementation,

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so as I mentioned in the presentation towards

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the end, so we use a little bit of advice to

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sort of patch some functionality of query

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replace because not everything was easy to

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implement. The core functionality luckily

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was, But there's a couple of fixes we need to

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apply to the message function in order to

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display a nice message in the echo buffer

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because this doesn't happen on its own when

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we're using this trick with this big regex

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and whatnot. So I don't think that the code

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as it is would be upstreamable.

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I think probably if we wanted to upstream it,

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we would have to do some proper work on

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refactoring query place itself in order to

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integrate all of this functionality just

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directly without any patching left and right.

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But yeah, definitely something I've given

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some thought, but so far no progress on it.

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I haven't actually started doing anything

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about it.

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[Speaker 0]: Right, So I'm curious now,

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you developed the feature and then you moved

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on to the presentation or did you want to do

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a presentation for EmacsConf and then you

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worked on something like this?

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Which was it first, the chicken or the egg?

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[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it was the former.

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So this is a problem I've been aware of for,

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I mean, probably a couple of years.

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And, you know, I talked to my friend

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Valentino about it and we had like a little

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discussion, you know, how would we do this?

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And then I remember back when I was

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researching about this problem and the

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various Emacs Lisp solutions,

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all I could find were these solutions that

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would, you know, just shy away from

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implementing the RegEx case,

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which is a really complicated 1.

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And, after some discussion,

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my friend and I decided,

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okay, what the hell? Let's,

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let's try and implement this.

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How hard can it be? And yeah,

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basically in 1 afternoon,

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the idea, our little trick and the whole

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implementation was born.

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And then I think that was maybe around a year

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ago, maybe a bit less.

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And then through the months,

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we just thought, oh yeah,

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maybe we could present this,

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maybe it would be interesting for people to

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see and that's how we came up with the idea

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to present at EmacsConf.

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[Speaker 0]: Okay, great. I don't see other people asking

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questions. So people, it's nice if I ask

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questions but you know,

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the point is kind of for you to ask the

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questions. I see someone who's joined us on

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BBB. Peter, would you like to ask a question

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maybe? Otherwise I see another person writing

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a question on the pad,

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so we can either move for this 1.

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So I'll leave Peter to figure out if they

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want to ask a question.

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So I'm moving on to the next question.

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[Speaker 2]: I can jump in. That's a really well done talk

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and you really clearly laid out the problem

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and the solution there.

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While I was watching it,

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I was thinking maybe the nice way to name it

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is just to name it query replace and query

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replace regext, you know,

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overloading the original functions and then

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using a prefix number,

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like control number to indicate how many

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replacements you're going to do.

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But maybe that doesn't work with the

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recursive editing stuff,

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which I don't use much.

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So I don't have a good method.

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[Speaker 1]: I think it would definitely work.

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Well, the question is,

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if we just overwrite the definitions,

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then, oh, well, I guess we could do that.

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Nothing stops us. I mean,

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we're in Emacs. We could definitely do that.

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And then if you give, like,

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a prefix argument, maybe it just drops you

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back to the original query replace.

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Yeah, that's an idea. For now,

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we decided, OK, let's just keep everything

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explicitly separate just to avoid any

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confusion.

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[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think that's the right thing to do

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for now. What I'm actually thinking is that

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when you do query replace,

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it just does the regular query replace.

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And if you're going to do,

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say, 3 parallel replacements,

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then you do Control-U,

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query replace. Sorry. Control-3,

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query replace. And then that way you don't

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have The final prompt that you give nothing

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to.

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[Speaker 1]: Exactly, that's actually not a bad idea.

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I think I like that. Yeah,

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that's not a bad idea.

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[Speaker 0]: It's always a quagmire whether to ask for an

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argument or to use the universal argument.

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When you're working with Emacs and especially

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the UX side of things in the package,

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it's so complicated to figure out which 1 you

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want to do. In this particular case,

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I think it's the better option to use the

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universal argument or any kind of argument

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with a control number before.

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All right, we have about 3 more minutes of

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questions. Peter, if you don't mind,

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I'll keep reading the questions in the chat.

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Did you use pair programming while developing

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it, it being a package,

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or did you work independently,

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alternating and reviewing with Valentino?

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[Speaker 1]: It was definitely a pair programming kind of

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thing. So if I remember correctly,

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I was sitting at the computer and Valentino

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was in front of a whiteboard and we were just

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dissecting this regex and a bunch of examples

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and trying to get these capture groups and

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stuff that we have to remap internally to get

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these offsets right and avoid off by 1 error

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and stuff like that. So yeah,

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definitely a team effort.

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[Speaker 0]: Okay, great. Moving on to the next question.

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What is your background in programming?

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Was it difficult to implement following the

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same API and architecture as what is already

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in Emacs?

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[Speaker 1]: So maybe just a quick back story.

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Both Valentino and I are actually PhD

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students in computer science,

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and we literally share an office.

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So that's how we even started talking about

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this whole thing. And we both use Emacs,

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of course. But I don't think this was too

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hard to implement because luckily all of the

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interactive functionality like this

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complicated undo, skipping,

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execute until the end and so on,

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all of this is really just already provided

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by the Emacs queer replace implementation.

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So sort of what we do is we just invoke it as

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a function and delegate to it.

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And we came up with this clever trick to

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basically delegate this multi-replacement to

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this 1 single function that's already there.

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So it wasn't too complicated.

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[Speaker 0]: Alright. And we have about 2 minutes of time

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for the last question.

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What did you learn about Emacs programming or

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programming in general while working on this

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project? A very wide question for me.

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[Speaker 1]: Maybe 1 thing I would like to add to the

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previous just answer is I don't want to say

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like you know we're PhDs,

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a PhD is required for this or anything,

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not at all. It's mostly just for a little bit

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of context, but I think obviously,

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even if you're not a PhD,

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I mean, you don't even require like

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university, you know, education or anything.

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It wasn't overly difficult to implement,

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sort of just read some code that's already

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there and you know follow what you see and

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poke Emacs a little bit and do a little bit

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of debugging on the internals and you can

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definitely get it. So definitely not a

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prerequisite to have a degree or anything to

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do any of this stuff. Okay so Coming back to

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[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I'm going to amend a little bit the

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question because we only have 1 minute.

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So just 1 thing in 10 seconds,

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[Speaker 2]: what did you

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[Speaker 0]: learn about this?

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[Speaker 1]: your last question. What did I learn about

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Emacs programming? That Emacs is so flexible

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that I can go and I can patch literally its

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message function. And that is how we achieve

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the nice message function in the echo buffer.

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So I can literally go and patch something as

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crucial as message.

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[Speaker 0]: It's great. That's a lovely 1.

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And I think, again, we're going back to the

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philosophy of Emacs. Everything is

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programmable and even changing the message

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function is great. All right,

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well, thank you so much,

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Lovro, and thanks to Valentino as well,

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who's not here, but who's contributed to this

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talk. Any last word?

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[Speaker 1]: Well, just if you're gonna build any

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solutions, try to make them as foolproof and

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as 100% as possible so we get more of these

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goodies that are nice and robust for

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everybody to use.

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[Speaker 0]: All right, lovely. Well,

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thank you so much, Lover,

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for your presentation and your answer.

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We'll be moving on to the next talk in just

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about 5 seconds, and I'll see you after.

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Bye, Lovro!

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[Speaker 1]: Yep, bye bye!

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[Speaker 0]: So I'm just waiting to make sure my VNC is a

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little slow. Okay, we switch to the next

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talk. All right, Lover,

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I'm gonna need to go get ready now.

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Yep. Bye-bye, and thanks for your talk.

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[Speaker 1]: Bye, thank you, see you.

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[Speaker 2]: You