WEBVTT 00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:04.059 [Speaker 0]: About 3 00:00:16.020 --> 00:00:16.400 seconds. And I believe we are live. 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:17.780 Hi Edmund, how are you doing? 00:00:19.240 --> 00:00:19.540 [Speaker 1]: Hi, how's it going Leo? 00:00:20.279 --> 00:00:20.560 I'm doing well, thanks. 00:00:20.560 --> 00:00:21.060 Yourself? 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:24.640 [Speaker 0]: I'm also doing well. So Edmund doesn't have 00:00:26.980 --> 00:00:27.259 his webcam on but he will be able to answer 00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:30.360 questions that you ask inside of the Azure 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:32.659 pad that I've shared again on IRC. 00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:35.560 By the way, we only have 1 question and we 00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:37.620 have about 40 minutes of question time, 00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:40.520 so feel free to add as many questions as you 00:00:41.940 --> 00:00:42.340 want and in the meantime, 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:43.660 we'll get started on the first 1. 00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:45.060 Unless, Edmond, do you have anything to say 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:46.420 after your presentation? 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:48.780 [Speaker 1]: No, we can jump in. 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:52.060 [Speaker 0]: Okay, lovely. So first question, 00:00:54.940 --> 00:00:55.200 is the index, sorry, does the index really 00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:58.100 matter here? I mean his colleague is also 00:01:00.380 --> 00:01:00.560 using some A4 paper and you think that the 00:01:02.400 --> 00:01:02.900 index card is the most important thing here? 00:01:04.540 --> 00:01:04.920 [Speaker 1]: That's a great question. 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:08.200 I mean, I think you can do anything with a 00:01:09.520 --> 00:01:09.720 larger piece of paper that you can do with a 00:01:10.240 --> 00:01:10.460 smaller piece of paper. 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:12.479 But I actually encourage you to try this out. 00:01:14.820 --> 00:01:15.020 I did, not for research for this talk, 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:17.160 but just when I read about Nabokov and his 00:01:18.160 --> 00:01:18.400 index cards to begin with, 00:01:20.380 --> 00:01:20.660 I kind of tried it out a little bit and wrote 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:22.720 some shorter things on index cards and so on 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:25.120 and there really is something about the size 00:01:27.940 --> 00:01:28.440 and the kind of ability to manipulate them. 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:30.360 You really can bundle them and move them 00:01:33.420 --> 00:01:33.720 around easier and I think that that I think 00:01:35.800 --> 00:01:35.920 he enjoyed that. So sure I mean I think you 00:01:37.540 --> 00:01:37.660 can do anything with a4 paper that you could 00:01:38.860 --> 00:01:39.140 do with index cards but I think there's 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:41.200 something about that form that lends itself 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:44.160 to the especially to the reorganization maybe 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:45.820 to the focus as well just because it's 00:01:47.060 --> 00:01:47.220 smaller but but definitely to the 00:01:47.220 --> 00:01:47.720 reorganization. 00:01:53.600 --> 00:01:53.940 [Speaker 0]: Definitely So we have a lot more questions 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:54.960 now. So thank you, everyone, 00:01:56.479 --> 00:01:56.979 for answering my plea for more questions. 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:00.060 Next question. How do you explore the second 00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:02.080 level headings, i.e. The scenes in this 00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:04.100 example, without the heading itself, 00:02:05.740 --> 00:02:06.240 just the content? Is that clear enough? 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:09.740 [Speaker 1]: Great question. Yeah, so I've tried 2 ways, 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:13.440 sorry, 3 ways with this and landed on 1 that 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:16.480 I like. Originally I used the OX package. 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:20.220 There's an OX ignore thing in there where you 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:23.420 can add an ignore tag to where you don't want 00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:25.140 the headings, but you do want the content 00:02:26.920 --> 00:02:27.240 exported. I found that a little bit annoying, 00:02:27.940 --> 00:02:28.280 just visually annoying, 00:02:31.320 --> 00:02:31.820 when I'm, again, My theme here is navigating 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:35.160 100,000 word documents effectively and having 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:37.400 that extra visual noise was kind of a pain. 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:40.760 So I ended up, first I just did like a dumb 00:02:43.040 --> 00:02:43.180 ox script as part of my publication kind of 00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:47.980 pipeline that removed headlines at the scene 00:02:48.940 --> 00:02:49.240 level. And then actually, 00:02:50.980 --> 00:02:51.220 because I ended up leaning so heavily on 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:53.880 Pandoc, and Pandoc, for those of you who have 00:02:56.200 --> 00:02:56.700 not looked at recent versions of Pandoc, 00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:01.300 they've got a really fantastic way to use Lua 00:03:02.420 --> 00:03:02.920 at this point to write filters. 00:03:04.940 --> 00:03:05.140 So you can kind of take the AST of your 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:07.400 document and run these very simple Lua 00:03:09.140 --> 00:03:09.620 filters over it. They used to be in Haskell, 00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:12.120 which I'm not smart enough to write Haskell 00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:13.500 is 1 of the things that I've discovered. 00:03:14.440 --> 00:03:14.760 I keep bouncing off of it, 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:16.720 but I'm just smart enough to write Lua. 00:03:19.480 --> 00:03:19.840 And so I use a Lua filter now, 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:21.380 which I'm happy to publish to anyone who's 00:03:22.880 --> 00:03:23.380 interested. That basically lets me say, 00:03:27.440 --> 00:03:27.560 you know, what level headings to get rid of 00:03:28.740 --> 00:03:29.120 the heading, but publish the content. 00:03:30.320 --> 00:03:30.480 And part of the reason that's been useful is 00:03:31.920 --> 00:03:32.040 that some of the other novels I'm working on 00:03:33.540 --> 00:03:33.680 for example have different levels of 00:03:35.640 --> 00:03:35.740 hierarchy where maybe there's a part and then 00:03:37.260 --> 00:03:37.640 you know at the top level and then chapter 00:03:39.160 --> 00:03:39.520 and then scene and it's now the third level 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:41.580 instead of the second and it's much easier in 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:44.060 the Lua to just be like remove the third 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:45.700 level headings or the second level headings 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:47.860 or whatever it is so that's been that's been 00:03:47.860 --> 00:03:48.360 helpful. 00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:53.540 [Speaker 0]: Great, Moving on to the next question, 00:03:58.120 --> 00:03:58.260 slightly off topic, where can we see your 00:03:58.260 --> 00:03:58.760 novels? 00:04:01.060 --> 00:04:01.560 [Speaker 1]: Oh well yeah, you can, 00:04:05.500 --> 00:04:05.560 they're on Amazon, there's 2 of them and a 00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:06.660 book of short stories. 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:10.440 I think the short stories and the second 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:12.280 novel, which is called World Enough in Time, 00:04:13.940 --> 00:04:14.160 which is the 1 that kind of prompted this 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:16.660 talk, are probably of more interest to this, 00:04:18.320 --> 00:04:18.820 to the Emacs focused group. 00:04:20.380 --> 00:04:20.740 The first one's like a philosophical murder 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:25.440 mystery, but the World Enough in Time is a 00:04:29.820 --> 00:04:30.320 kind of Douglas Adams inspired sci-fi comedy 00:04:34.440 --> 00:04:34.940 about kind of hijinks on a relativistic speed 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:37.480 space cruiser, which was a lot of fun to 00:04:38.980 --> 00:04:39.480 write. It has a lot of twisty subplots, 00:04:42.500 --> 00:04:42.720 which is where I developed that technique of 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:46.780 being able to filter down to tags and see a 00:04:47.840 --> 00:04:48.340 reduced version of the novel, 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:51.960 which was very handy when trying to juggle 13 00:04:53.520 --> 00:04:54.020 subplots. So yeah, check it out. 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:57.340 [Speaker 0]: Great, we'll make sure that you have the 00:04:59.860 --> 00:05:00.360 links available on the talk page afterwards. 00:05:03.420 --> 00:05:03.740 Right now I sadly have to host so I cannot 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:05.820 look up the links but we'll make sure or if 00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:08.600 [Speaker 1]: I put it in there for you. 00:05:09.020 --> 00:05:09.520 [Speaker 0]: anyone in the chat... Oh you did? 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:13.940 Yeah. In the meantime we'll move on to the 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:17.060 next question. Have you looked at the Denote 00:05:19.700 --> 00:05:20.080 signature features? The hierarchical nature 00:05:23.180 --> 00:05:23.520 of Lumen's ideas and index cards works well 00:05:24.100 --> 00:05:24.600 with Denote signatures. 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:26.620 So are you familiar with Denote first? 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:28.840 [Speaker 1]: I am not. No, it sounds like something that I 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:29.740 should check out. 00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:33.420 [Speaker 0]: Yeah, Denote is a way to work with slip 00:05:35.460 --> 00:05:35.640 boxes. We talked a little bit about it 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:37.740 earlier today. We talked about Orgroam, 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:40.900 we talked about Denote as well as a lighter 00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:42.080 alternative to Orgroam. 00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:45.920 And yeah, the organization with index cards 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:47.720 feels like it's something that would highly 00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:50.900 benefit from linking and back links and any 00:05:53.880 --> 00:05:54.380 kind of UX functionality for relating pieces 00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:56.980 of information. So yeah, 00:05:57.620 --> 00:05:58.120 definitely look it up. 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:00.460 [Speaker 1]: Yeah, I'm a heavy org-roam user. 00:06:03.280 --> 00:06:03.680 I use org-roam for a lot of different stuff 00:06:05.740 --> 00:06:05.860 and I would love, I will definitely check out 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:07.240 Denote as an alternative. 00:06:09.520 --> 00:06:09.960 [Speaker 0]: Sure, I'm not particularly personally 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:12.180 familiar with what Signature is within Denote 00:06:13.940 --> 00:06:14.060 and it'd be great if the person who asked the 00:06:15.580 --> 00:06:15.980 question could perhaps provide more details 00:06:17.980 --> 00:06:18.180 so that Edmund could get a little more 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:20.500 information when he returns to the document. 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:21.980 But yeah, if you're using Org-ROM, 00:06:25.140 --> 00:06:25.280 you're already within the mindset that you 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:27.500 need, and perhaps you'd gain a little bit 00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:29.760 extra stuff from using Dino's signature, 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:33.240 I assume. We have 8 minutes. 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:34.540 We're still good on time. 00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:36.980 Next question, do you have a workflow 00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:39.360 combining handwritten index cards and org 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:39.860 mode? 00:06:42.400 --> 00:06:42.900 [Speaker 1]: Great question. I do not. 00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:47.120 I do write by hand when I get, 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:49.280 I don't know what a good term for it is, 00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:51.580 I'll call it like editorial paralysis or 00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:53.320 something when I find it very hard to move 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:54.880 forward in something because I keep going 00:06:56.940 --> 00:06:57.240 back and tweaking. And I will handwrite stuff 00:06:58.520 --> 00:06:58.660 at that point and then type it in because 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:02.540 it's so much harder to get stuck in editing 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:04.600 mode when you have to move forward on the 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:07.860 page. I don't use index cards. 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:12.080 In the blog article that I link in my talk, 00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:14.900 the ewj.io slash emacs 1, 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:18.740 I did try using handwritten or spreadsheet 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:22.720 outlines at 1 point and found them very, 00:07:27.640 --> 00:07:27.840 very clumsy for novel writing just because I 00:07:29.820 --> 00:07:30.320 do so much, I mean, I do so much revision 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:32.720 that moving things around meant that I had to 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:34.760 keep 2 things in sync with each other, 00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:35.660 the pros and the outline. 00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:38.040 And that was what really led me to Org Mode 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:40.080 as a way to keep the, again, 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:42.180 I think part of the key for me is keeping the 00:07:44.580 --> 00:07:45.060 outline and the pros right next to each other 00:07:46.440 --> 00:07:46.940 in a way that they move around which is just 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:49.000 really, I don't know, for me really really 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:49.500 powerful. 00:07:54.280 --> 00:07:54.480 [Speaker 0]: Okay great, so we finished the list of 00:07:55.840 --> 00:07:56.340 questions available on the pad, 00:07:58.260 --> 00:07:58.440 but I see that some people have joined us on 00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:01.300 BBB, so hi everyone. If you have any 00:08:03.340 --> 00:08:03.600 questions feel free to unmute yourself and 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:06.820 ask them. Otherwise, we might go on a break. 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:08.520 So I'm going to give you about 10 seconds to 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:14.760 unmute yourself. Or if you just want to add 00:08:15.660 --> 00:08:15.860 more questions on the pad, 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:17.920 that's also fine. And that'll give you about 00:08:19.540 --> 00:08:19.860 30 seconds. Otherwise, 00:08:20.660 --> 00:08:21.160 we'll need to go on a break. 00:08:24.020 --> 00:08:24.520 And in the meantime, I'll thank you, 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:26.100 Edmund, for your presentation, 00:08:27.880 --> 00:08:28.100 because it's always nice, 00:08:31.400 --> 00:08:31.900 you know, we The reason why we have 2 tracks, 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:34.280 and we've been having 2 tracks for the last 2 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:36.260 or 3 editions of EmacsConf is because it's 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:39.299 really nice to have those talks which are 00:08:43.500 --> 00:08:43.840 still related to Emacs and to far distance 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:45.700 developments because we are obviously using 00:08:48.160 --> 00:08:48.400 packages. But it's really nice to see when we 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:52.200 foray into other areas like writing or any 00:08:53.400 --> 00:08:53.900 kind of academia-based topics. 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:55.840 So thank you, it's really nice. 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:01.720 It brings different colors to the spectrum of 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:03.900 what EmacsConf is and what ultimately Emacs 00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:05.180 is as well. Thank you. 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:07.200 [Speaker 1]: Well thanks to everyone who tuned in and Leo 00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:08.560 thanks to you and all the other organizers 00:09:09.060 --> 00:09:09.340 for putting this together. 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:10.220 Appreciate it. 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:12.840 [Speaker 0]: Thank you. All right I think we're going to 00:09:14.380 --> 00:09:14.540 go on a little break for 5 minutes because I 00:09:16.060 --> 00:09:16.560 don't see other questions being asked. 00:09:18.900 --> 00:09:19.160 So everyone we'll see you again in 5 minutes 00:09:19.900 --> 00:09:20.400 and thank you again, Edmund. 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:21.220 [Speaker 1]: Cheers.