I'm fine. So we can start, right?
Yeah, sure. I mean, you pretty much know the drill.
Everyone watching the show now already knows the drill. V
idianus is going to read the questions. If you want to read
the questions on your own, you can open up the pad.
Otherwise, Vidianus will be reading the questions and
answering them in line. And I'll be making jazz in the
background whenever something doesn't work. So Vidianus,
the floor is yours.
Okay. So do you use flitting notes as well? Do you keep
them in the org room? And flitting notes are a very
interesting subject. In the initial draft of this talk, I
wanted to include flitting notes as well, but it would take
a bit too long. So I said, let's not do it.
I'm going to add a link here to my .files in the section
for flitting notes. But I can very quickly share my screen
for a moment and show you something about it. So give me a
moment.
Yes, you can do this.
Okay. So you see the screen now, I think?
Yes, I can see it.
So I have a key binding which opens my daily note. I have
some notes from other talks in EmacsConf and talks that I'm
going to miss due to the two tracks. Don't mind them. So I
write, for example, flitting note.
And I have a command down here which will automatically
give it a to do value. So let's say, for example, I'm
crossing it. It adds a tag to the current projects node,
which is essentially a node I have for things I want to do
right now.
It makes it an org-rem node. And then I can write something
here, blah, blah, blah. And if I go on org-rem node find,
actually, I need to save it first. It will appear here.
And then once I say it's done, it is not a node anymore. It
is removed here. This allows me to archive things. I can
stop the sharing now. This allows me to archive flitting
notes.
So I don't need -- because flitting notes are not something
that needs to remain my shell custom. I want them for some
point and then deleting them.
And this is done with org-journal and not org-rem-dailys
because with org-journal I can have this -- I make it a
node and then I remove it from a node.
While I don't think you can do that with org-rem-dailys,
the code for all of this is in the section I pasted on the
etherpad. And if you have any questions, you can email me.
>> Okay. >> Sorry, just to specify, all the contact
information will be available on the talk page. So be it
the email to Vidianos, also the pads, the recording,
everything will be available after the conference as soon
as we have the bandwidth for this.
So that's where you'll be able to find contact information.
Okay. You can keep going, Vidianos. Sorry for the inter
ruption.
>> Okay. So the second question is if it works for PDFs
only or Word and Excel or EPUB, websites, CWW and YouTube.
So I'm not sure. Give me a moment to look at OrgNotor and
see if it says -- because I said I didn't remember. Use it
with PDFs typically.
>> Yes. From the top of my mind, I think OrgNotor works
with EPUB file via the package that is managed I think by
-- was it by Wasamasa? I can't remember actually now. But
at some point it was managed by Wasamasa.
He was probably watching right now and probably yelling at
me in the background. So I'll keep you posted on this. But
yes, the OrgNotor allows you mostly to take notes on PDF
via PDFView, but it also allows you to take notes on EPUB.
And they're working relatively well.
But as for the other -- yeah, go on, Vidianos.
>> I opened OrgNotor and it says it also is compatible with
DocView for Office, so Word, Excel and things like that.
>> Yeah. And otherwise, if you really want to take notes on
such documents, you can probably use either OrgConvert or
Pandoc to generate a document that would be editable within
OrgNotor. It shouldn't be too difficult to do so. And
usually it's mostly PDFs when you're working on research
stuff or stuff like this.
Anyway, sorry for interrupting. This is a topic very dear
to my heart as well because as you know, I have worked a
little bit in OrgGram and OrgNotor especially.
>> Yeah. So I think you should be able to do Word, Excel
and EPUB. I don't think it works with websites and it
definitely doesn't work with videos. Not sure if there's
other solutions for those.
>> I believe there is one. Sorry, I keep inserting myself
into the discussion. This is a very interesting topic. I
think Alfred Papa developed an Org package to capture a
webpage. So it's like an OrgCapture, you know, Org protocol
that allows you to capture stuff from your browser.
It allows you to capture a page and basically Pandocs the
results into an HTML, sorry, it Pandocs from HTML to an Org
document with a structure and a hierarchy. And this way you
can actually take notes on the documents and just have all
the features you would expect in an Org document.
>> I'll shut up now. This is your talk, not mine. If I
really wanted to talk about this, I should have made a talk
. Anyway, back to you.
>> Okay. So next one. I used Take Notes on PDF with OrgNot
er, but Zotero PDF Reader is also very nice. So, okay. Yeah,
I have seen the Zotero PDF Reader. It does look nice as
well, I would agree, but I have two problems with it.
One, Emacs key bindings don't work, and two, it's not Emacs
. Basically, I think it's nice, but I want to use things
that are outside Emacs for as little as possible. And I use
it there because I haven't found a way in Emacs to save the
article somewhere and download the PDF automatically.
I know there is DOI Utils, which was mentioned by RC a few
moments ago as well, but it hasn't worked perfectly for me
in the past when I tried it, so I use Zotero for that, but
I wouldn't use it for the PDF Reader as well because I want
to use it in Emacs.
Next one. Thanks for saying that it was a great
presentation. My thoughts on the future of Zelle Casten. I
think Zelle Casten has a bright future, personally, because
it is plain text. Plain text will never go away, basically.
You will be able to use it forever, and also, Orgrom is
open source with a very vibrant community, so that won't go
away either anytime soon, I think. So, it probably has a
future, if you mean it that way.
And I think that, in general, it is a noting method that is
very efficient. I have used it for university the past few
years, and I have right now like 850 notes on it, and they
will probably only keep increasing.
So, I don't think it's going away. If you want to ask
anything else, we can talk more about it.
Actually, I do have something to add to this particular
point, because on the topic of Zelle Casten and how useful
it can be. Now, it's been a little while since Zelle Casten
really started exploding. I think in 2020, right when COVID
started, a lot of people started getting interested in Z
elle Casten methods.
And ever since, we have a lot of software that were
released, including the ones we have in Orgrom. I'm going
to use Orgrom because it's the one I'm most familiar with
as a commentator, but we also have D-Notes by Prot and
other solutions as well.
And one thing that I'm currently working on, and a key area
of interest for me, is how do we use the concept of Zelle
Casten, a collection of notes. Generally, when you think of
Zelle Casten, it's a really individual collection of notes,
right?
It's something that you have, it's the stuff that you find
during your research, during the paper that you read. But
how about trying to have a slipbox for a group of people,
so that they could start sharing notes on research that
they do.
It wouldn't be the same thing as a personal slipbox, but
you can think of it as the knowledge bank for a group of
people, where they keep track of the concept that they use
within their organization, the patterns that they like to
use when they work together.
So, we actually wanted to do a talk this year on some of
those adjacent topics, but sadly, we were a little taken by
time, and you'll have to wait for next year. But I will
agree with you, Vidianos, there's a lot of very interesting
stuff abound for Zelle Casten method, and especially Zelle
Casten inside Emacs.
All right, back to you now.
Thanks for the additions, I like them as well, and I think
that what you said about collaboration, it would be very
interesting, really.
Great.
The only problem is having other people using the same
methods with you.
Sorry, Vidianos, I'm not sure if you asked me a question, I
was at a health, whispering my ear in the background at the
same time.
I just said that I really like the idea that you said about
collaboration.
Yeah, because it is really something that is missing when
you think about it. Like, the good thing about Emacs, and
the philosophy of Emacs generally, is that we have
different modes working together, and they do one thing, or
multiple things, and they do it very well.
We have org mode for editing structured documents, we have
maggots to manage repositories, we have calc to do
calculations with a polished notation and whatnot.
It feels like we have a great tool for collaboration,
editing a singular buffer, which is CRDT, which we've
already talked about before.
I'm not sure if we did have a presentation on Emacs about
CRDT. I think, if you're more interested in this, go back
to the talk I did last year with Joe Connelly and Noura El
Hassan on Emacs Research Group.
We did demonstrate what CRDT was.
So, we have a very good tool for working on a buffer, and
we have a very good way to take notes.
Why not try to combine the two tools, like Emacs is so good
at doing? We take one mode, we take another mode, we clash
them together and we do something very interesting with
them.
Well, we should probably be doing something similar with
note-taking, so that people can actually start building
notes together.
I think that would be a really key step in the future. But
anyway, I think I'm repeating myself a little bit, and I
don't want to say too much right now.
You'll see it in the future, it's coming month or coming
year, so you're not in a rush and flus.
Okay, Vityan, it's back to you now.
Okay, so how do you find a way to get a nice overview of
multiple notes to rearrange them?
Like, basically putting many small notes on another table
and rearranging them.
So, my initial idea when I tried to make Zettle Desk was to
get as close as possible to this.
Have a lot of small notes in my table and be able to
rearrange them.
Due to Org Mode being text, this is not exactly possible.
But I don't know if this question was before the third demo
or not.
What I showed in that demo, I think, to an extent, showed
what I do for rearranging.
You add all the things you want on the Zelda scratch buffer
, and then rearrange them however you want.
So, that's as close as I have been able to get to that.
It's not perfect, but I think it is alright for being text,
which making it graphically would be hard, I think.
And the next one seems to be a follow-up on that question.
Yeah, it says it's difficult or impossible to do that. Yeah
, I agree.
Okay.
So, this package that you say on the next one, on the next
question, I will check this link out.
It seems very interesting for writing your notes on a big
canvas.
I think it would definitely make sense for my workflow to
use something like this, if it is what I have understood
you mean it is.
I would love to try it. And we'll get back to you.
Whoever left that message, if you want to leave any contact
information or talk to me, I would love to get back to you
about this.
Because it looks very interesting.
Yes, so again, all the contact information will be
available on the talk page.
By the way, if you're worried about the lighting changes in
my place, it's just that sometimes I have a lot of light in
my face.
And then, when I'm a little tired, I do rest like this.
And it's very different, but it's still me. Don't worry
about it.
I'm not going to turn it off, because every time it's like
a flashbang going into my eyes.
So, if you want to talk to Vidyanos afterwards, maybe do
not leave your coordinates right into the pad.
Maybe get in touch with Vidyanos instead.
Those ads are going to be public eventually, and even
though we will be reviewing all the content within them,
it means that they will be open to people for a while.
So, maybe avoid putting personal information over there.
But otherwise, you'll be able to connect after the
conference relatively easily, and Vidyanos will be able to
follow up.
Or even just on the questions, whenever you have the time.
But it might take one or two weeks for the speakers to get
back to the questions you put into the pad.
We will be asking them frequently.
We do have this policy, as you know, with Emacs, of nudging
speakers to do something.
So, we will nudge speakers towards answering your questions
, but it might take us about one or two weeks to get all the
answers.
I think we don't have any more questions currently.
There is one more.
Oh, there is one more. So, please take it.
Can we use Zettelkasten for coding too, especially when
using the IDs like Visual Studio and Excel?
So, I can't say for sure if you can use it, because I'm not
in coding.
The only language I know the best for coding is Emacs Lisp.
And the only other one I know is Matlab for doing
calculations, for example, for things in university.
But I think you should be able to do that.
If you look for Zettelkasten for coding, you will probably
find some resources for it.
I don't think it breaks the Zettelkasten principles.
You can make atomic nodes for coding concepts.
So, it should work, I believe.
Yeah, and I can actually confirm this.
I did share with you before in one of the previous Q&A how
we're taking notes on this little device right here to do
lead code exercises.
The thing about lead code exercises is that, well, lead
code, sorry, let's be more vague about it.
Lead code is a platform and not a free platform as well,
and I'm not advertising them.
But the concept of data structure and algorithm is really
important to programming.
And usually when you try to solve algorithmic problems, you
rely on a number of patterns that have been developed by...
Sorry, I get people telling me to my right here that, oh,
the sim is going down.
And so my stomach is falling into my body, just, oh, what
happened?
Anyway, going back to the point, we do rely on patterns and
identification of patterns within a problem.
So, as a result, it would be very much possible to create
separate nodes for all these patterns.
And you can have different exercises and say you have an
exercise that is using two different things.
It's using a tree pattern and it's using a depth search.
If neither of those two words make any sense to you, do not
worry and be grateful because this will haunt you at night
otherwise.
But it would be very, I think it would be a prime candidate
really for atomization and linking within a Zettelkasten.
Because it would make it so much easier to structure your
knowledge in a way that is organic rather than hierarchical
.
So, yeah, this was a very good question and I'd be happy to
encourage the asker to try it on their own and maybe make a
presentation next year at the next EMACS Conf.
Vidyanos, before we continue, I just want to give up the
heads up.
So, we have opened the room currently. If you want to join
the room with Vidyanos, we have posted the link on ISC.
And if you go to the talk page of Vidyanos talk, you will
be able to join the room as well.
We did have quite a number of questions. So, feel free to
join.
In about four minutes, we'll need to move on to the next
talk.
But, well, actually, I give you about three more minutes.
Do we have any more questions on the pad, Vidyanos?
On the pad, no. I'm looking on IRC.
Someone says if Zeldas.dl will be available in Melpa.
It is on Melpa right now. You can find it.
Right. And you just have to -- sorry, my voice is getting
raspier.
It's only the first day of EMACS Conf. It's not even lunch
and I'm already losing my voice.
This is not booting well for the rest.
But, yeah, you should be able to find it pretty easily by
looking on doc.go for Melpa and space and zeldacaster.el,
the name of the package.
You'll be able to find it. And we can put it on the page.
I'm pretty sure it's already on your talk page, Vidyanos,
as well.
Yeah, it is on the talk page.
Yeah, you'll be able to find it really quickly.
So we have about two more minutes.
Did you see any other question that you'd like to answer as
well?
I'm scrolling on IRC since the talk started to see if there
is anything else.
I don't see anything else.
If anyone has a room here, I would love to continue.
If not, then I think we've already answered enough things.
Sure, I would concur. You have covered a lot of ground.
I am personally happy to be seeing so many talks about Zeld
acaster.
It feels like I was a little bit of a forerunner at EMACS
Conf talking about Zeldacaster.
And now, we are two years later and we're still talking
about it.
I know a lot of people are getting a little tired of
hearing about Zeldacaster all the time.
But if you part all the communication, if you focus on what
it actually does,
and I keep saying it's just notes and it's just links,
it's actually quite amazing what you can do with it.
It's just a mental model, really.
So I would kind of use the, you know, sorry for the voxing
here.
But if you have been interested in Zeldacaster at some
point,
or if you are frustrated by all the talk about Zeldacaster,
that seems to be kind of like a cult at some point,
well, I would encourage you maybe to try, not necessarily
try it for yourself,
but try to understand really the simple stuff behind it.
Because honestly, there's nothing very revolutionary about
this note-taking method.
It's just that it used to be done with paper, and now it's
done with computers,
and it makes it a little more easier.
Personally, what I find the most helpful in this type of
note-taking is how organic everything feels.
You do not need to be thinking about the structure from the
get-go,
and this is extremely freeing.
OK, Vidyanos, we are about out of time.
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer the
questions.
We will be in touch in the future, and we'll be looking
forward to having more presentations about Zeldacaster,
and perhaps maybe one by you in the future.
So, well, thank you so much.
And, Vidyanos, I don't see anyone in the room, so feel free
to leave the room after we're done.
So in about one minute, we're going to go with the next
talk.
We might go a little bit quiet until the top of the minute.
I need to drink, and I need to rest my voice.
But in one minute, we'll be starting the next talk.
Vidyanos, thank you so much, and see you next time.
Bye.
(Break)