WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:14.120 All right. Hi, again, everyone. So, we are back. And I am with Vavin. Hi, Vavin. How 00:14.120 --> 00:15.120 are you doing? 00:15.120 --> 00:18.120 I'm good. How about you? 00:18.120 --> 00:24.040 I'm doing well. You will note that I now have an extra layer because I was absolutely frozen 00:24.040 --> 00:28.960 in the first half of this year's EmacsConf. But now, hopefully, I should start getting 00:28.960 --> 00:33.080 a little warmer. Usually, I'm more stressed, you know, when we only have one track and 00:33.080 --> 00:36.640 we only have about two minutes between every talk. I need to run all the time. And even 00:36.640 --> 00:40.840 though we are in the dead of winter in Europe, usually, I'm pretty warm. But today, I am 00:40.840 --> 00:45.920 so relaxed that I have the mental availability to be cold. Anyway, this is not about me. 00:45.920 --> 00:47.920 This is about you, Vavin. 00:47.920 --> 00:54.740 So, for the new joiners, newcomers to the chat, we do have a pad where you can ask questions. 00:54.740 --> 00:59.400 And we are primarily looking at this pad for the questions. What we'll do afterwards is 00:59.400 --> 01:06.720 that we'll open up this current room in which we are. And we will allow you to ask questions 01:06.720 --> 01:12.360 directly to Vavin. And it's a subject, you know, user group that is very close to Sasha 01:12.360 --> 01:17.720 and my heart because we've done a lot of work towards it. And we might have some knowledge 01:17.720 --> 01:23.440 to contribute afterwards. But for now, I prefer if we heard about Vavin. So, Vavin, take it 01:23.440 --> 01:24.440 away. 01:24.440 --> 01:25.440 Yep. 01:25.440 --> 01:36.640 I see one question. What about using on multiple computers? I think that's not related or I'm 01:36.640 --> 01:38.440 not sure what it is about. 01:38.440 --> 01:40.440 I'm not sure either. 01:40.440 --> 01:46.840 Yeah, I'll just do the next one. What about collaborative editing with this multiple computers 01:46.840 --> 01:50.920 with Macs like CRDT or with R2D2? 01:50.920 --> 01:57.920 I think there's something weird going on. I'll give you just a second. 01:57.920 --> 02:04.120 I'll just pick up the relevant one in that case. 02:04.120 --> 02:05.680 Sure, thank you. 02:05.680 --> 02:07.840 Thoughts on physical meetups. 02:07.840 --> 02:19.560 Yeah, so this year, I think a few months back, I had thought of doing it. But the way right 02:19.560 --> 02:28.040 now it is, at least in my region, the community is comparatively small. So usually right now 02:28.040 --> 02:33.480 the model is working is basically the remote one. And we get people from some people from 02:33.480 --> 02:39.080 I think China, some people from Australia. So we get to have a couple of people and good 02:39.080 --> 02:46.680 discussions usually. Whereas for physical meetups, what I've been thinking is maybe 02:46.680 --> 02:52.960 one off meetup can be physical. Let's say you come together similar to people have been 02:52.960 --> 03:00.680 watching Emacs on this year. So something like you come together, do the online meetup 03:00.680 --> 03:05.520 first and then networking and discussions can happen offline. So that was one of my 03:05.520 --> 03:12.880 idea. Maybe I'll try it with Emacs APAC sooner or later and we'll see how it goes. So that's 03:12.880 --> 03:18.880 the current plan about physical meetups. And in terms of if you ask me thoughts, they are 03:18.880 --> 03:25.340 good too. So you get to talk with people face to face, you got to make more connections. 03:25.340 --> 03:30.840 So yeah, I might experiment some mixed way of doing it right once in a while you meet 03:30.840 --> 03:36.720 or otherwise you do it online so that people who are not able to join in or travel to that 03:36.720 --> 03:40.160 particular area or region, they can just join online. 03:40.160 --> 03:48.240 Yeah, it's a very interesting topic of physical meetups because we, so I participate in one 03:48.240 --> 03:56.880 of the workshop Emacs Paris and we used to have in-person meetups in Paris and usually 03:56.880 --> 04:02.040 there were about five to 10 people showing up, which was a good number. But when COVID 04:02.040 --> 04:07.820 happened and we moved to virtual meetings, we started having a lot more people. Now we 04:07.820 --> 04:12.680 are averaging about 15 to 20 people at every session and it's amazing. But the problem 04:12.680 --> 04:20.000 is, I'm knocking on wood really hard, but now that COVID is a little easier to manage 04:20.000 --> 04:25.720 and that's a lot of people are returning to in-person meetings, it's a little more complicated 04:25.720 --> 04:32.040 really to say, do we go back to physical meetings even though we have more people on a virtual 04:32.040 --> 04:36.640 meeting? It causes us to ask many questions about why do we want those meetings to be 04:36.640 --> 04:44.320 held? And we need to think about this in 2023 with the organizers of Emacs Paris and I think 04:44.320 --> 04:53.840 Emacs SF also was in the process of thinking about how to go back to physical venues. And 04:53.840 --> 05:01.680 I think right now the consensus amongst a lot of workshop user group organizers is that 05:01.680 --> 05:06.920 they would like to have both. So if it was a monthly meeting before, why not have a physical 05:06.920 --> 05:14.960 meeting every month and a virtual meeting every month as well on a two-week cycle. So 05:14.960 --> 05:25.240 that's a lot more work, obviously. It's not choosing, it's choosing. I'm not sure how 05:25.240 --> 05:30.400 big the pool of people you have in Emacs APAC actually is but it feels like it's a much 05:30.400 --> 05:39.720 larger area than say Emacs Paris for France. So you try it even though. Yeah, exactly. 05:39.720 --> 05:48.320 So in India, there is the region with this Maharashtra Pune, it is like one end and across 05:48.320 --> 05:54.880 maybe you can say 500-600 kilometers radius, you have many other cities where more people 05:54.880 --> 06:02.960 are there. So having all of them at one place is basically event like conference or something. 06:02.960 --> 06:08.400 Monthly meetup, probably not. So there is one more meetup group I managed, not related 06:08.400 --> 06:14.280 to Emacs, but we had same question, what to do now? We have many people joining us throughout 06:14.280 --> 06:20.920 the state and should we have a meetup in one city only? So yeah, I think we'll have to 06:20.920 --> 06:25.400 experiment and see. Yeah, but it's fun to experiment, it's fun 06:25.400 --> 06:30.160 to have. We know that we have interested people all around the world, like that it showed 06:30.160 --> 06:34.840 you the type of workshop that we can have and how to run your own, but we already have 06:34.840 --> 06:39.120 many workshops around the world. It wasn't the case if you go back three years ago. I 06:39.120 --> 06:44.720 think if I'm completely speedboarding now, but I think we had about five user groups 06:44.720 --> 06:52.520 worldwide three years ago, and now we must have something like 12, 13, 14 even, which 06:52.520 --> 06:56.680 is a massive increase when you think about it. Now that Babin has provided you with the 06:56.680 --> 07:01.440 tools to do just the same and start your own workshop, and also you have the buddy system 07:01.440 --> 07:07.880 of Andrea that you saw earlier today, you have more options than ever to be able to 07:07.880 --> 07:13.240 meet people talking about Emacs. Now, there's obviously EmacsConf as well, which is helping 07:13.240 --> 07:18.800 and we have a lot of lovely tools to share with you, but I think it's better or it's 07:18.800 --> 07:24.120 a good compliment to have a monthly checkup with people who might feel a little closer 07:24.120 --> 07:28.920 to you, either, and closer can have multiple definitions, you know, it can be closer in 07:28.920 --> 07:34.840 terms of proficiency with Emacs, or it can be closer geographically, which makes it easier 07:34.840 --> 07:39.960 or culturally, which will make it easier to converse with people. We do have a question 07:39.960 --> 07:44.440 about hybrid meetings. Do you want to take this one, Babin? It's so related to what we 07:44.440 --> 07:45.440 were talking about. 07:45.440 --> 07:53.800 Yep, yep, yep, yeah. So I tried it, not with Emacs one, but with the other one I organized. 07:53.800 --> 07:59.800 And even I had some thoughts. The only problem is what happens, the people who are joining 07:59.800 --> 08:07.960 virtually, they usually end up feeling left out. Because people who are in the room, they 08:07.960 --> 08:13.640 might be discussing something face to face, they might have some discussions. The only 08:13.640 --> 08:21.200 way I think would work is everyone joins the online link from their own machines. You do 08:21.200 --> 08:27.680 your regular meetup discussions. And after that, you have some discussions. Because otherwise, 08:27.680 --> 08:33.560 one side or other side will end up feeling left out. Rather than doing it, I'll just 08:33.560 --> 08:39.160 keep it one or other, either completely virtual or completely in person. 08:39.160 --> 08:47.240 Yeah, I think it is really complicated to do a hybrid stream well. I told you the figures 08:47.240 --> 08:52.960 of the people we had, which was roughly between five to 15 people at most in physical venues. 08:52.960 --> 08:55.800 Right now, by the way, we should probably say hi to the people in Switzerland who are 08:55.800 --> 09:03.880 currently watching Emacs in a very nice, warm room. I'm thinking warm because I'm cold. 09:03.880 --> 09:07.320 It's not only warm in terms of the weather inside the room, but also warm in terms of 09:07.320 --> 09:13.320 the people around it. Hi, everyone. Hybrid meetings pretty much take the attention 09:13.320 --> 09:18.880 of two people entirely. One to manage the physical venue, and one to manage the virtual 09:18.880 --> 09:24.480 interactions. And generally, those two people would be core organizers of the events. And 09:24.480 --> 09:30.520 that takes a lot of energy. And I think people are a little scared to do such events because 09:30.520 --> 09:34.360 you also need to manage webcams, you need to manage presentation, how to take questions, 09:34.360 --> 09:41.000 how to relay audio. And frankly, as someone who organizes or helps organize EmacsConf 09:41.000 --> 09:45.080 every year, I can tell you that it can be plenty of wrong going on with audio setup, 09:45.080 --> 09:49.880 video setup, and making sure that everyone is being listened to. But ultimately, we are 09:49.880 --> 09:55.560 sharing these tools. So maybe we could share the tools for EmacsConf for people to actually 09:55.560 --> 10:00.280 start running their own workshop. That would be interesting. But please don't send me an 10:00.280 --> 10:03.680 email asking for this. I need to rest. 10:03.680 --> 10:13.760 So there is one, I think, thought. Yeah, one thought in the IRC. It is about the time it 10:13.760 --> 10:22.280 takes for me to organize the meetup. So what I have done is creating the announcement, 10:22.280 --> 10:29.360 posting it at least on the website, I have automated it. So at times, even I forget that 10:29.360 --> 10:36.120 when is the meetup and all. But my automation takes care of creating the online website 10:36.120 --> 10:42.760 entries, announcements and all. So that saves me a lot of time and a lot of cognitive load 10:42.760 --> 10:53.440 I should say. I don't have to remember I have to announce it. And what happens is, I do 10:53.440 --> 11:00.480 plan to automate more things like announcements on IRC, announcements on Mastodon and stuff. 11:00.480 --> 11:07.420 So that will save a lot more time. But usually, that basically means I don't have to do much 11:07.420 --> 11:12.920 stuff before the meetup. It's like 15 to 20 minutes. And during the meetup, obviously 11:12.920 --> 11:19.040 I attend along with everyone else. And post meetup, it might take more time. But I haven't 11:19.040 --> 11:26.080 worked on processing or collecting the video and publishing those. So maybe add more, let's 11:26.080 --> 11:29.280 say, 30 minutes or so. So yep. 11:29.280 --> 11:36.000 Yeah, there is definitely something to be said about how do we use the workshops to 11:36.000 --> 11:41.040 make content that lasts after the workshop. It's a discussion we've been having with some 11:41.040 --> 11:47.520 of the workshop organizers. I remember mostly Emacs SF again, and also Emacs Paris. We were 11:47.520 --> 11:52.760 talking about, yes, we record the sessions, but we share the sessions only with members 11:52.760 --> 11:59.440 of the event. What if we have a really great presentation? It would be such a shame to 11:59.440 --> 12:05.440 leave it live merely on the BBB record server where only users can see it. No, it's actually 12:05.440 --> 12:09.840 much better if we could find a way to share it on YouTube, for instance, or any other 12:09.840 --> 12:15.120 distribution platform where people would be able to share this. With EmacsConf, we share 12:15.120 --> 12:19.960 all the talks that happen in prior years. What if we could have user groups and workshops 12:19.960 --> 12:23.840 do the same? That would be amazing. But I think people are feeling a little iffy and 12:23.840 --> 12:28.880 rightfully so. This is a lot of energy to first make presentations like this for the 12:28.880 --> 12:36.080 speakers, but then to package them, to caption them for accessibility. We are able to broadcast 12:36.080 --> 12:42.000 talk this year with captions with no little thanks to Bavin, who is actually helping us 12:42.000 --> 12:47.840 a lot behind the scenes working on the subtitles. Thank you again so much, Bavin, for all this. 12:47.840 --> 12:52.020 You will be the first to tell, this is a lot of work, actually. I'm not sure how much time 12:52.020 --> 12:58.400 you've spent in the last two months working on subtitles, but it's been a long time. 12:58.400 --> 13:03.720 It does take time. That's why I'm still not sure how much time it will take for me to 13:03.720 --> 13:09.400 get those talks or recordings out, right? But as a first step, like I mentioned in the 13:09.400 --> 13:17.160 talk as well, just get it out first and then work towards refining it. 13:17.160 --> 13:24.440 Yeah, that's the usual saying that good is better than perfect or here and there is better 13:24.440 --> 13:30.760 than later and never. I think that's a very good plan here. Bavin, we have about five 13:30.760 --> 13:35.200 more minutes until we need to head into the next store. We have opened the chat room, 13:35.200 --> 13:39.320 so if people wanted to join and ask questions with Bavin, mostly if you're interested in 13:39.320 --> 13:43.480 running your own workshop, this would be a golden opportunity to converse with Bavin 13:43.480 --> 13:48.160 and see how you could get started on this. Or maybe if you want to find people interested 13:48.160 --> 13:53.560 in starting a workshop, maybe not in BBB today, but it'd be interesting for you to connect 13:53.560 --> 14:00.440 on the pad or whatever else really to be able to say, oh yeah, I want to start an Emacs 14:00.440 --> 14:04.560 Michigan meeting or whatever. I'm not sure why I defaulted to Michigan, don't ask me. 14:04.560 --> 14:08.480 But you would be able to find maybe other people willing to do so and that'd be great. 14:08.480 --> 14:12.080 Why don't you stop moving my hands like this? This is the one gesture I'm doing today and 14:12.080 --> 14:17.760 I need to pluralize it a little bit. Do we have any more questions on the pad? I think 14:17.760 --> 14:18.760 no. 14:18.760 --> 14:25.800 Not on pad. I think there are two questions in IRC. I'll just quickly answer them. One 14:25.800 --> 14:33.320 is about automation. So I have my repository, the website repository on GitLab and they 14:33.320 --> 14:40.160 provide something called pipelines. So you can just schedule things and I have a cronjob 14:40.160 --> 14:47.880 you can say sort of on their platform itself, which goes and gets triggered on certain days 14:47.880 --> 14:57.920 and my script basically takes care of publishing a new blog entry basically. And there was 14:57.920 --> 15:08.280 one question, what is iLuxy? So it is a new Linux user group from Chennai, India. So yeah, 15:08.280 --> 15:15.080 I think I've been using their mailing list and there have been a couple of people from 15:15.080 --> 15:23.160 that part of the country who joined the meetup as well. 15:23.160 --> 15:28.240 And we're definitely trying to make Emacs user group a thing. Like Lug, Linux user group 15:28.240 --> 15:33.520 has been a thing for decades at this point. And if only we could manage to make, I mean, 15:33.520 --> 15:41.760 the thing it doesn't sound as well, a huge, probably the worst argument in its favor really, 15:41.760 --> 15:47.000 but Emacs user group feels like it should be something that is widely adopted as much 15:47.000 --> 15:51.240 as Linux user groups. Because when you think about it, whether it be Linux or whether it 15:51.240 --> 15:57.080 be Emacs, those groups are where a lot of people get to experiment with those tools 15:57.080 --> 16:02.600 and learn, especially a lot of beginners who make it to those meetings. They get propelled 16:02.600 --> 16:07.200 in the future in terms of how much they learn and it's so much better. You probably heard 16:07.200 --> 16:13.000 more about this in the Android talk we had earlier today. Right, I'm blabbering on about, 16:13.000 --> 16:18.960 but it's a topic very dear to my heart and I'm so glad that you managed to feel sorry 16:18.960 --> 16:26.080 a topic and a presentation. Sorry, I'm mixing up everything there. 16:26.080 --> 16:33.140 We will soon be moving on to the next stream. So I see that we have a couple of people still 16:33.140 --> 16:38.120 on BBB, but no one with a microphone. So again, when we open the BBB chat room, if you want 16:38.120 --> 16:42.800 to join and ask questions, it's all the better. It's good if you want to join and listen, 16:42.800 --> 16:47.520 but we need people to actually be asking questions because that's when we have the speaker in 16:47.520 --> 16:52.400 one room and you can gather all the questions. I'm going to give you a little secret. If 16:52.400 --> 16:56.360 sometimes it doesn't sound like I'm making any sense, it's because on one here, I am 16:56.360 --> 17:00.520 listening to Bavin. That's the left here. On the right here, I'm listening to production 17:00.520 --> 17:07.640 and sometimes stuff is burning in the background and I have to take a deep breath and focus 17:07.640 --> 17:12.120 on, for instance, everyone is talking in my ear. It's really complicated. So what I'll 17:12.120 --> 17:16.880 be doing is that in about 1 minute and 20 seconds, we'll be moving into the next talk. 17:16.880 --> 17:21.480 Bavin, thank you so much for taking the time to answer all the questions. You'll probably 17:21.480 --> 17:24.960 be sleeping fairly soon, right? 17:24.960 --> 17:31.880 Yeah, please help us in the backstage. But yes, thank you so much for all your help. 17:31.880 --> 17:36.000 Thank you for your presentation. As for the others, we are about to move to the next talk 17:36.000 --> 17:40.840 in about 1 minute. So it's going to be a bit of an awkward pause again. Sorry for this, 17:40.840 --> 17:46.800 but at the top of the next minute, we'll be starting the next talk. See you in a bit, 17:46.800 --> 17:49.400 I suppose. Thank you again, Bavin. 17:49.400 --> 17:53.760 Thank you. Thank you for organizing the event. It has been fun. 17:53.760 --> 17:54.880 Thank you for participating in it.