and we are live hello again everyone and hi Michael how you doing very well thank you
how are you I am doing well I am running out of energy steadily but surely but it's it's
it's always a confusing feeling you know because I feel the energy going away the excitement
going up because not only because we are close to an end which means my turmoil and my plight
will come to an end but also because it's nice to have finished any Max Kant and I've
put so many great talk in the wild for people to to be able to consume so and that's no
little thanks to all our speakers including you Michael so thank you so much oh no you're
very welcome I'm just happy to be a part of it yeah and we're glad you are so Michael
do you have the pad open in front of you I do indeed looks like you've got a few questions
coming in here yes meeting the question and then answering them sure sure let's start
off with the one one I've already answered how did you create the drill down representation
of the make call wondered if I sketched it out by hand and scanned it so I should every
talk I give both at work and elsewhere people ask this question I should like get a finder's
fee from Excalidraw but there's a website on the web called Excalidraw.com very nice
diagramming solution it makes these awesome sort of hand written looking diagrams so that's
what I used first question have you seen Reclaim ID this allows you to make a login that you
own or at least is more open source and ownable seems to fit with the indie web so this is
one of the things I've come to like about speaking at EmacsConf I feel like I learn
you know as much or more than I teach no I am not familiar with this so I will definitely
be taking a look there is an indie web protocol for identity it's called indie auth but yeah
thanks for the tip I will definitely check out Reclaim ID what happens when you republish
or re-export the same post will the web mentions be sent out repeatedly they will not not you
could do that I suppose you might annoy some of your recipients but my solution on successful
send of the initial web mention notes that down and is smart enough to not re-send it
a second yeah so and actually I want to follow up on something on IRC I think Carl Voight
said oh I don't have to have a database you don't have to have a database but I do use
a plain text file full of just just printed list forms to maintain state let's see an
advantage I see to using org mode for the indie web is you can use it for your notes
org room for example no export for private yes yes the web mentions could be org file
yes absolutely so yeah I mean so many people have found org mode so handy as a writing
tool that you know and I just felt like you were right there right you just need a little
bit of code to get you to transcode the HTML and get it on the web and then it was like
well gosh I'm right there just a little bit more code and I can start sending web mentions
I could start posseing etc etc etc any thoughts on using with ox Hugo so no not because I
have anything against ox Hugo simply because I'm unfamiliar with it there's a couple of
static site generators out there that you can use with org mode my design philosophy
for this was I was going to start with emacs and org mode out of the box and see how far
I could get with just adding a little bit of a list around it this a web 3 approach p.s.
former not former military just losing my hair not I don't know what web 3 means some
people it seems to be a decentralized approach and indie web is all about reclaiming your
identity and your data from a few they call them silos right we're talking about the big
social media oh cool great help me the web one with static sites yep yep everybody go
out and blog on your own server and web rings were kind of like the communication mechanism
web 2 is more interactive yeah I mean web 2 certainly was more interactive I guess I
see it as we're gonna Michael just interrupting a little quickly we are going to open up the
Q&A to people so if you want to join us the same dude as usual you go to the talk page
we've also posted the sorry to give you just a second just a second I'm verifying something
with audio level okay cool apparently my audio is perfect we were trying to do some live adjustments
so we're saying we've opened up the BBB room so that people we want to join the last five
questions are able to do so so either on the talk page or you can do this also on IRC
we've posted the link over there so Michael you feel free to keep taking questions on
the pad we still have many of them but I just wanted to let people know in case they wanted
to join and also one last information we will need to move on with the next talk in 16 minutes
so you still have plenty of time yeah wow I'm excited there's so much time left to answer
question or oh wow I'm not sure what I'm gonna do for 60 minutes oh no the former oh wow
I'm not sure I'm gonna get to all these all these right well you'll be able to answer later
try to do as many as you can okay so I'm on IRC right now somebody's telling me I'm super
quiet I'm gonna adjust the mic no don't worry about OJ levels it's on us you don't worry
about it let's see Sasha's gonna try and fix is there a workflow to use emacs to publish
and connect directly to target websites so that's an interesting question can you what
do you mean by workflow in that question so you want to cut telegraph out of the equation
get that that means oh I'm sorry I thought somebody had joined the chat room don't worry
I will I will let them know if you have people joining and asking questions if you hear another
voice than mine it's someone joining and I will try to be polite and say yeah can you
please wait let's Michael finish the question don't worry I don't know everything so if
you want to cut telegraph out of equation that means you're going to need to take on
more work client side in terms of first discovering the web mention endpoint which is gonna involve
parsing HTML which we all hate then you're going to need to send the request to that
web your web mention to that endpoint which introduces you know the standard question
with web hooks is what if they're down what if you can't reach them what if you're not
on the networks and now you got to build yourself a queuing system but sure sure absolutely
indie web is just a protocol and I think the community would actually welcome fewer points
of failure like telegraph we got the BBB audio better okay great so questions we were discussing
web three Carl says some people started to term web zero for similar decentralized approaches
yeah I don't think that by no means does indie web imply static site there are actually
CMS systems that talk to that speak the indie web protocols I think even WordPress does
it as does Drupal yeah so I don't know if you want to we can discuss further if you
want to hop in the room but yeah I guess I see it more as a decentralized web than three
do I have a process nope I had sorry the question is do you have a process running on the web
server to receive requests no so those are cashed for me and I literally have a cron
job on my personal desktop and once an hour I just reach out and say you got any more
web mentions for me and process them back here that does mean given that I have a statically
generated website I need to republish every time I receive a web mention Michael if you
don't mind interrupting we have someone in the room who would like to ask a question
Max if you want to unmute yourself if you could ask the question I'm not sure if you're just
showing your webcam yes you do have a question go on hi Michael no I actually didn't have
a question I asked a question about the web 3.0 and I have a little concern about you
know you use you describe kind of how dead it was to have just a static site and not
be able to interact with people and so I was you know just thinking along those lines is
anywhere is it a better way how satisfied are you with this with this with web mentions
and you know sort of thumbs up down and did you actually get a demo running I mean are
we able to see it somewhere well you can see it on my site which is just but I have can
actually can you put it in the back can you put it in the back so that other people can
actually access it including Max okay yes Max I know you're still there but I just want
everyone to be able to click on it as well I'll do it don't worry about it I'll take
care of it here we go Carl says web 3 is supposed to be something really strange with blockchains
and this is definitely nothing like that yeah Carl put it much better than I could and well
I'll just kind of okay cool Max is still here I'll just finish answering the question how
satisfied am I it's work in progress I'm initially happy I was limited by time for this talk
and as you can see maybe I got too far into the weeds but it was fairly involved just
describing how to send and receive web mentions there's a second indie web protocol called
posse publish on your own site syndicate elsewhere in which you can say okay I want to publish
this post to my site oh and at the same time fire off a tweet referencing it and fire off
a mastodon to referencing it and there are protocols for like pulling likes and boosts
of that back to your own site as feedback and I've been playing with that a little bit
and actually feeling pretty good about it yeah so happy to talk more other questions
okay right so do I have a process running on the web server to receive requests nope
just a cron job I think perhaps you're doing too much inside emacs yeah yeah great question
I can't remember if I alluded to this at the end of the talk but as I said when I started
down this path felt that was so close with just plain vanilla emacs in org mode it couldn't
be that hard right and of course this is famous last words initially it was just a little
bit of code around that to get the static site generator up sending web mentions are
yeah it's a lot of code and so I'm definitely kind of at this point of you know is it time
to turn to a proper CMS I start out using web mentions of service web mention telegraph
then you want to change endpoint whether to a different service or I want to take them
I see I see it didn't be the way the web mention oh I'm sorry let me finish the question I
keep to make this clear so the question is let's suppose you start your site using web
mentions of service and then later on you decide I want to change services or I'm just
going to handle this myself is there sort of a dead letter problem will web mentions
show up at the at the old address and it shouldn't be so when somebody wants to reach you that
is when they do endpoint discovery so they if you would get request for your page and
parse the HTML and they discover where to send web mentions there pose it for some reason
they did that and sat on that information for some period of time of course then they
might that you know they might send it to an old address but that would be that would
be a non-standard use of the protocol you should be good have I seen a Gregor browser
is a decentralized kiss browser using some of the peer-to-peer protocols interesting
I have not I'm going there right now thank you
somebody points out some things are better done outside of e-max I have built something
similar at by star dot net you see www dot by hyphen star dot net okay let's go see it
this is interesting thank you I will definitely take a look yeah so I can say I'm kind of
on the cusp of saying okay this has been a fun experiment now I need to go code it up
outside of e-max I like the fact that you know the discussion we were having the question
about you know am I doing too much in e-max is literally a question that could be asked
to every single presenter at all the e-max conference other ads because you know the
whole point of e-max golf is showing what type of stuff you can do in e-max and naturally
the question is going to follow that is are you just doing too much with e-max and that's
always great question to take and I think you did spend it late yeah it's the old joke
right it's a good editor in an awesome operating system yes I will allow you to do the usual
jokes about e-max I will not allow you to refer to our core enemy that's they who may
not be named okay fair okay so Michael we do have about five minutes of questions left
I think you've answered all the questions and I don't see anyone else with a microphone
on in BBB so we might we might leave it at that if you're okay with this okay well thank
you so much Michael for taking the time to not only do a presentation for us but also
for answering the questions in here no thank you all like I say I always learn as much
as I teach here so great thank you okay amazing all right and for the others I'll hold you
hostage a little while longer Michael we will be adding into the next talk in about four
minutes and 30 seconds so we'll put up some music and I'll you'll hear my voice again
when we are supposed to go live again so see you in a bit everyone and see you Michael
and we are all fair okay I have to dash see you Michael you are calling music on Jen
can we put yes thank you
we volume again now to the original level
very good
you know what
what
Alright, I'm talking now. Okay, the audio is good. See you guys, see you in about 2 minutes.