WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:13.360 and we are live hello again everyone and hi Michael how you doing very well thank you 00:13.360 --> 00:20.360 how are you I am doing well I am running out of energy steadily but surely but it's it's 00:20.360 --> 00:24.920 it's always a confusing feeling you know because I feel the energy going away the excitement 00:24.920 --> 00:30.360 going up because not only because we are close to an end which means my turmoil and my plight 00:30.360 --> 00:37.560 will come to an end but also because it's nice to have finished any Max Kant and I've 00:37.560 --> 00:42.400 put so many great talk in the wild for people to to be able to consume so and that's no 00:42.400 --> 00:46.760 little thanks to all our speakers including you Michael so thank you so much oh no you're 00:46.760 --> 00:52.160 very welcome I'm just happy to be a part of it yeah and we're glad you are so Michael 00:52.160 --> 00:57.760 do you have the pad open in front of you I do indeed looks like you've got a few questions 00:57.760 --> 01:04.680 coming in here yes meeting the question and then answering them sure sure let's start 01:04.680 --> 01:10.520 off with the one one I've already answered how did you create the drill down representation 01:10.520 --> 01:19.320 of the make call wondered if I sketched it out by hand and scanned it so I should every 01:19.320 --> 01:26.480 talk I give both at work and elsewhere people ask this question I should like get a finder's 01:26.480 --> 01:35.120 fee from Excalidraw but there's a website on the web called Excalidraw.com very nice 01:35.120 --> 01:42.000 diagramming solution it makes these awesome sort of hand written looking diagrams so that's 01:42.000 --> 01:50.880 what I used first question have you seen Reclaim ID this allows you to make a login that you 01:50.880 --> 01:57.160 own or at least is more open source and ownable seems to fit with the indie web so this is 01:57.160 --> 02:02.320 one of the things I've come to like about speaking at EmacsConf I feel like I learn 02:02.320 --> 02:08.040 you know as much or more than I teach no I am not familiar with this so I will definitely 02:08.040 --> 02:18.160 be taking a look there is an indie web protocol for identity it's called indie auth but yeah 02:18.160 --> 02:24.520 thanks for the tip I will definitely check out Reclaim ID what happens when you republish 02:24.520 --> 02:31.360 or re-export the same post will the web mentions be sent out repeatedly they will not not you 02:31.360 --> 02:40.880 could do that I suppose you might annoy some of your recipients but my solution on successful 02:40.880 --> 02:47.600 send of the initial web mention notes that down and is smart enough to not re-send it 02:47.600 --> 02:56.600 a second yeah so and actually I want to follow up on something on IRC I think Carl Voight 02:56.600 --> 03:03.440 said oh I don't have to have a database you don't have to have a database but I do use 03:03.440 --> 03:14.520 a plain text file full of just just printed list forms to maintain state let's see an 03:14.520 --> 03:19.720 advantage I see to using org mode for the indie web is you can use it for your notes 03:19.720 --> 03:26.800 org room for example no export for private yes yes the web mentions could be org file 03:26.800 --> 03:36.200 yes absolutely so yeah I mean so many people have found org mode so handy as a writing 03:36.200 --> 03:44.040 tool that you know and I just felt like you were right there right you just need a little 03:44.040 --> 03:50.200 bit of code to get you to transcode the HTML and get it on the web and then it was like 03:50.200 --> 03:55.560 well gosh I'm right there just a little bit more code and I can start sending web mentions 03:55.560 --> 04:10.560 I could start posseing etc etc etc any thoughts on using with ox Hugo so no not because I 04:10.560 --> 04:18.200 have anything against ox Hugo simply because I'm unfamiliar with it there's a couple of 04:18.200 --> 04:25.760 static site generators out there that you can use with org mode my design philosophy 04:25.760 --> 04:33.120 for this was I was going to start with emacs and org mode out of the box and see how far 04:33.120 --> 04:43.400 I could get with just adding a little bit of a list around it this a web 3 approach p.s. 04:43.400 --> 05:00.280 former not former military just losing my hair not I don't know what web 3 means some 05:00.280 --> 05:06.960 people it seems to be a decentralized approach and indie web is all about reclaiming your 05:06.960 --> 05:14.160 identity and your data from a few they call them silos right we're talking about the big 05:14.160 --> 05:28.160 social media oh cool great help me the web one with static sites yep yep everybody go 05:28.160 --> 05:35.160 out and blog on your own server and web rings were kind of like the communication mechanism 05:35.160 --> 05:50.560 web 2 is more interactive yeah I mean web 2 certainly was more interactive I guess I 05:50.560 --> 06:02.080 see it as we're gonna Michael just interrupting a little quickly we are going to open up the 06:02.080 --> 06:06.520 Q&A to people so if you want to join us the same dude as usual you go to the talk page 06:06.520 --> 06:15.720 we've also posted the sorry to give you just a second just a second I'm verifying something 06:15.720 --> 06:21.080 with audio level okay cool apparently my audio is perfect we were trying to do some live adjustments 06:21.080 --> 06:25.640 so we're saying we've opened up the BBB room so that people we want to join the last five 06:25.640 --> 06:32.080 questions are able to do so so either on the talk page or you can do this also on IRC 06:32.080 --> 06:36.320 we've posted the link over there so Michael you feel free to keep taking questions on 06:36.320 --> 06:39.600 the pad we still have many of them but I just wanted to let people know in case they wanted 06:39.600 --> 06:45.200 to join and also one last information we will need to move on with the next talk in 16 minutes 06:45.200 --> 06:57.560 so you still have plenty of time yeah wow I'm excited there's so much time left to answer 06:57.560 --> 07:04.320 question or oh wow I'm not sure what I'm gonna do for 60 minutes oh no the former oh wow 07:04.320 --> 07:09.240 I'm not sure I'm gonna get to all these all these right well you'll be able to answer later 07:09.240 --> 07:14.280 try to do as many as you can okay so I'm on IRC right now somebody's telling me I'm super 07:14.280 --> 07:19.480 quiet I'm gonna adjust the mic no don't worry about OJ levels it's on us you don't worry 07:19.480 --> 07:27.080 about it let's see Sasha's gonna try and fix is there a workflow to use emacs to publish 07:27.080 --> 07:38.360 and connect directly to target websites so that's an interesting question can you what 07:38.360 --> 07:46.080 do you mean by workflow in that question so you want to cut telegraph out of the equation 07:46.080 --> 08:00.880 get that that means oh I'm sorry I thought somebody had joined the chat room don't worry 08:00.880 --> 08:04.800 I will I will let them know if you have people joining and asking questions if you hear another 08:04.800 --> 08:08.560 voice than mine it's someone joining and I will try to be polite and say yeah can you 08:08.560 --> 08:13.320 please wait let's Michael finish the question don't worry I don't know everything so if 08:13.320 --> 08:20.560 you want to cut telegraph out of equation that means you're going to need to take on 08:20.560 --> 08:28.720 more work client side in terms of first discovering the web mention endpoint which is gonna involve 08:28.720 --> 08:37.840 parsing HTML which we all hate then you're going to need to send the request to that 08:37.840 --> 08:43.960 web your web mention to that endpoint which introduces you know the standard question 08:43.960 --> 08:48.120 with web hooks is what if they're down what if you can't reach them what if you're not 08:48.120 --> 08:53.560 on the networks and now you got to build yourself a queuing system but sure sure absolutely 08:53.560 --> 09:02.640 indie web is just a protocol and I think the community would actually welcome fewer points 09:02.640 --> 09:10.520 of failure like telegraph we got the BBB audio better okay great so questions we were discussing 09:10.520 --> 09:22.520 web three Carl says some people started to term web zero for similar decentralized approaches 09:22.520 --> 09:30.000 yeah I don't think that by no means does indie web imply static site there are actually 09:30.000 --> 09:38.440 CMS systems that talk to that speak the indie web protocols I think even WordPress does 09:38.440 --> 09:44.560 it as does Drupal yeah so I don't know if you want to we can discuss further if you 09:44.560 --> 09:56.080 want to hop in the room but yeah I guess I see it more as a decentralized web than three 09:56.080 --> 10:01.320 do I have a process nope I had sorry the question is do you have a process running on the web 10:01.320 --> 10:09.040 server to receive requests no so those are cashed for me and I literally have a cron 10:09.040 --> 10:16.080 job on my personal desktop and once an hour I just reach out and say you got any more 10:16.080 --> 10:23.920 web mentions for me and process them back here that does mean given that I have a statically 10:23.920 --> 10:32.280 generated website I need to republish every time I receive a web mention Michael if you 10:32.280 --> 10:35.240 don't mind interrupting we have someone in the room who would like to ask a question 10:35.240 --> 10:41.520 Max if you want to unmute yourself if you could ask the question I'm not sure if you're just 10:41.520 --> 10:47.600 showing your webcam yes you do have a question go on hi Michael no I actually didn't have 10:47.600 --> 10:55.160 a question I asked a question about the web 3.0 and I have a little concern about you 10:55.160 --> 11:01.160 know you use you describe kind of how dead it was to have just a static site and not 11:01.160 --> 11:08.800 be able to interact with people and so I was you know just thinking along those lines is 11:08.800 --> 11:16.360 anywhere is it a better way how satisfied are you with this with this with web mentions 11:16.360 --> 11:23.120 and you know sort of thumbs up down and did you actually get a demo running I mean are 11:23.120 --> 11:39.960 we able to see it somewhere well you can see it on my site which is just but I have can 11:39.960 --> 11:43.480 actually can you put it in the back can you put it in the back so that other people can 11:43.480 --> 11:53.880 actually access it including Max okay yes Max I know you're still there but I just want 11:53.880 --> 11:57.280 everyone to be able to click on it as well I'll do it don't worry about it I'll take 11:57.280 --> 12:08.720 care of it here we go Carl says web 3 is supposed to be something really strange with blockchains 12:08.720 --> 12:22.240 and this is definitely nothing like that yeah Carl put it much better than I could and well 12:22.240 --> 12:26.320 I'll just kind of okay cool Max is still here I'll just finish answering the question how 12:26.320 --> 12:37.400 satisfied am I it's work in progress I'm initially happy I was limited by time for this talk 12:37.400 --> 12:43.040 and as you can see maybe I got too far into the weeds but it was fairly involved just 12:43.040 --> 12:50.360 describing how to send and receive web mentions there's a second indie web protocol called 12:50.360 --> 13:00.320 posse publish on your own site syndicate elsewhere in which you can say okay I want to publish 13:00.320 --> 13:09.240 this post to my site oh and at the same time fire off a tweet referencing it and fire off 13:09.240 --> 13:18.120 a mastodon to referencing it and there are protocols for like pulling likes and boosts 13:18.120 --> 13:27.480 of that back to your own site as feedback and I've been playing with that a little bit 13:27.480 --> 13:36.880 and actually feeling pretty good about it yeah so happy to talk more other questions 13:36.880 --> 13:42.200 okay right so do I have a process running on the web server to receive requests nope 13:42.200 --> 13:49.960 just a cron job I think perhaps you're doing too much inside emacs yeah yeah great question 13:49.960 --> 13:56.400 I can't remember if I alluded to this at the end of the talk but as I said when I started 13:56.400 --> 14:05.080 down this path felt that was so close with just plain vanilla emacs in org mode it couldn't 14:05.080 --> 14:12.160 be that hard right and of course this is famous last words initially it was just a little 14:12.160 --> 14:20.000 bit of code around that to get the static site generator up sending web mentions are 14:20.000 --> 14:28.480 yeah it's a lot of code and so I'm definitely kind of at this point of you know is it time 14:28.480 --> 14:37.040 to turn to a proper CMS I start out using web mentions of service web mention telegraph 14:37.040 --> 14:44.200 then you want to change endpoint whether to a different service or I want to take them 14:44.200 --> 14:53.480 I see I see it didn't be the way the web mention oh I'm sorry let me finish the question I 14:53.480 --> 14:59.960 keep to make this clear so the question is let's suppose you start your site using web 14:59.960 --> 15:06.800 mentions of service and then later on you decide I want to change services or I'm just 15:06.800 --> 15:12.080 going to handle this myself is there sort of a dead letter problem will web mentions 15:12.080 --> 15:21.600 show up at the at the old address and it shouldn't be so when somebody wants to reach you that 15:21.600 --> 15:28.560 is when they do endpoint discovery so they if you would get request for your page and 15:28.560 --> 15:36.560 parse the HTML and they discover where to send web mentions there pose it for some reason 15:36.560 --> 15:45.160 they did that and sat on that information for some period of time of course then they 15:45.160 --> 15:51.320 might that you know they might send it to an old address but that would be that would 15:51.320 --> 15:59.680 be a non-standard use of the protocol you should be good have I seen a Gregor browser 15:59.680 --> 16:05.480 is a decentralized kiss browser using some of the peer-to-peer protocols interesting 16:05.480 --> 16:14.920 I have not I'm going there right now thank you 16:14.920 --> 16:18.720 somebody points out some things are better done outside of e-max I have built something 16:18.720 --> 16:33.760 similar at by star dot net you see www dot by hyphen star dot net okay let's go see it 16:33.760 --> 16:38.200 this is interesting thank you I will definitely take a look yeah so I can say I'm kind of 16:38.200 --> 16:42.840 on the cusp of saying okay this has been a fun experiment now I need to go code it up 16:42.840 --> 16:51.040 outside of e-max I like the fact that you know the discussion we were having the question 16:51.040 --> 16:56.600 about you know am I doing too much in e-max is literally a question that could be asked 16:56.600 --> 17:01.960 to every single presenter at all the e-max conference other ads because you know the 17:01.960 --> 17:05.400 whole point of e-max golf is showing what type of stuff you can do in e-max and naturally 17:05.400 --> 17:09.440 the question is going to follow that is are you just doing too much with e-max and that's 17:09.440 --> 17:15.080 always great question to take and I think you did spend it late yeah it's the old joke 17:15.080 --> 17:22.640 right it's a good editor in an awesome operating system yes I will allow you to do the usual 17:22.640 --> 17:30.680 jokes about e-max I will not allow you to refer to our core enemy that's they who may 17:30.680 --> 17:37.320 not be named okay fair okay so Michael we do have about five minutes of questions left 17:37.320 --> 17:42.000 I think you've answered all the questions and I don't see anyone else with a microphone 17:42.000 --> 17:52.520 on in BBB so we might we might leave it at that if you're okay with this okay well thank 17:52.520 --> 17:56.200 you so much Michael for taking the time to not only do a presentation for us but also 17:56.200 --> 18:03.560 for answering the questions in here no thank you all like I say I always learn as much 18:03.560 --> 18:09.560 as I teach here so great thank you okay amazing all right and for the others I'll hold you 18:09.560 --> 18:13.600 hostage a little while longer Michael we will be adding into the next talk in about four 18:13.600 --> 18:18.800 minutes and 30 seconds so we'll put up some music and I'll you'll hear my voice again 18:18.800 --> 18:27.640 when we are supposed to go live again so see you in a bit everyone and see you Michael 18:27.640 --> 18:38.680 and we are all fair okay I have to dash see you Michael you are calling music on Jen 18:38.680 --> 18:59.040 can we put yes thank you 18:59.040 --> 19:16.440 we volume again now to the original level 19:16.440 --> 19:41.840 very good 19:41.840 --> 19:56.440 you know what 19:56.440 --> 20:21.880 what 20:21.880 --> 20:38.120 Alright, I'm talking now. Okay, the audio is good. See you guys, see you in about 2 minutes.