WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.800 say everyone can say hi to Sasha. Oh, we are recording now. Okay, great. But do say thanks 00:04.800 --> 00:10.160 to Sasha for being everywhere at once trying to make sure that the stream is working properly. 00:10.160 --> 00:12.560 She has the magic touch, yes, definitely. 00:13.920 --> 00:18.640 All right, Vala, sorry to do that. But now the floor is yours. You can take as many questions 00:18.640 --> 00:22.720 as you want. And I'll be making humorous comments when I'm not busy putting out fires in the 00:22.720 --> 00:30.160 background. Okay. All right. Thanks, folks. So thank you for the questions. I'll take one by one. 00:30.160 --> 00:35.600 How do you link the notes together so you could search through them in the future? Okay, this 00:36.320 --> 00:44.560 video I made before, or rather the experience that I shared with you was before I got into 00:44.560 --> 00:51.600 linking of notes and how to make sense of it. I'm still I mean, I'm thankful for guys like Leo for 00:51.600 --> 00:59.120 putting our room together. However, yes, you can take a bow. However, I'm still in the infancy of 00:59.120 --> 01:07.200 trying to link these topics. So the suggestion I have is once you convert your handwritten text 01:07.200 --> 01:15.520 into text, so handwritten stuff from your notebook into text, or if you write it, if you have a 01:15.520 --> 01:24.640 writing device, and you can convert it into text, input it into org rom and link it the way you 01:24.640 --> 01:34.000 would do it. So I have not yet gone into it. But having said that, I've started doing it like a 01:34.000 --> 01:39.840 week ago, I started linking these handwritten notes, which are converted into text, and then 01:39.840 --> 01:47.760 can be linked to any other note that you want. So that's that would be my response to the linking 01:47.760 --> 01:54.640 part. So which actually leads to the next question, is it necessary to OCR your handwriting? 01:55.760 --> 02:00.720 This is a necessary step, you have to do optical character recognition, as in convert all the 02:00.720 --> 02:10.640 handwritten stuff into text, because otherwise, indexing and linking becomes a problem later on. 02:10.640 --> 02:16.240 If it's only you going through the handwritten notes, so that you browse it and read it when 02:16.240 --> 02:23.760 you want it, that's okay. So you don't have to worry about OCR, just input the JPEG, the PNG, 02:23.760 --> 02:31.600 or whatever file you use, format you use, input it into under the org mode headline, or the org 02:31.600 --> 02:40.720 rom file, and you should be good to go. However, if you want the other stuff, then OCR becomes a 02:40.720 --> 02:50.960 necessity. So I'm unfamiliar with any package that does the OCR conversion inside of the Emacs 02:50.960 --> 03:02.880 ecosystem. So I use tools like OneNote, or I think Google Keep does that. I don't know of any other 03:02.880 --> 03:10.240 free slash open source tools which do that. I'm not familiar, but I use an external tool to convert 03:10.240 --> 03:16.800 handwritten text into notes, if you want the link again, read rating, if you want the linking and 03:16.800 --> 03:24.560 the indexing. If not, for me, sometimes screenshots and handwritten notes have to go together, 03:24.560 --> 03:31.360 so that I can find out, okay, this team or this student was talking about his project, 03:31.360 --> 03:36.880 or her project, and this is the screenshot of their presentation, and I write down my notes, 03:36.880 --> 03:44.560 and it goes along with that. That was for me a key to have that together, and not just hand 03:44.560 --> 03:49.600 typewritten notes, because I have no recollection later on, but handwritten notes I seem to recall 03:49.600 --> 03:54.160 better, and that's the whole idea of how to integrate. I was breaking my head over it. 03:55.200 --> 04:01.840 So those are the two responses to those two questions. What about searching notes? Notes 04:01.840 --> 04:09.360 to text while being offline? Oh my god, this is a related one as well. So yes, it is going to be 04:09.360 --> 04:15.520 searching has to be linked. If you want the searching facility, it has to be converted text. 04:15.520 --> 04:22.320 There are no two ways to that right now. Proprietary software like Google Keep seems to 04:22.320 --> 04:31.120 manage it. I think others, OneNote also, Dropbox also says that they can do it. I haven't tried it 04:31.120 --> 04:37.600 there, searching it inside these systems to look for handwritten text, because I don't use that for 04:37.600 --> 04:44.160 managing my projects or making sense of what I've written down. So when it comes to 04:44.160 --> 04:53.200 doing all those tasks, I use Org Mode. So I would say you absolutely mandatory for us to convert 04:53.200 --> 05:00.160 this, unless I've made that appeal at the end of my talk, saying if Org Mode, Emacs, Org Mode 05:00.160 --> 05:06.080 community can put their brains together. I don't know if I can help, but if you want me for 05:06.080 --> 05:12.640 testing your package, I certainly put my hands up for this for sure. I can do that. I'm keen on 05:12.640 --> 05:21.680 trying that out. I hope that answered the third question. These articles on, those articles are 05:21.680 --> 05:28.960 not taking seems interesting. Could you get a link for them? I'll definitely drop it in the Etherpad 05:28.960 --> 05:38.800 after this recording is done for sure. I will leave it there. It is my good friend in France 05:38.800 --> 05:44.320 who shared that with me saying when he saw the title of my talk, he sent me a whole bunch of 05:44.320 --> 05:50.000 articles saying, hey, this seems to support what you told me. And I have sort of shown you the 05:50.000 --> 06:00.080 screenshots in the video, but I'll definitely leave some of these links in the Etherpad after this. 06:00.080 --> 06:05.360 Oh yeah, I've used, the next question is, have you looked at taking handwritten notes on a tablet 06:05.360 --> 06:13.920 like, I don't know how to say that, journal with an X plus plus? So yes, I have started using it 06:13.920 --> 06:22.560 again. The only tools I used were OneNote and Google Keep because those were the only ones 06:22.560 --> 06:30.080 which would allow for writing using my stylus. I'm sure there are other apps which can do it, 06:30.080 --> 06:35.600 but do they convert it into text and how easy is it to input it into org mode is something that, 06:35.600 --> 06:44.000 so for now, the Dropbox method for me was I write notes, I take a mobile camera, take a picture, 06:44.000 --> 06:51.440 upload it to Dropbox. Why Dropbox? Because it allows JPEG to be uploaded. Whereas PDF, 06:51.440 --> 07:00.080 I find it very cumbersome from handwriting to get it in here. So JPEG, I can input it into 07:00.080 --> 07:06.320 org mode, I'm sorry, OneNote and that converts it into text and then I take it and put it into, 07:07.200 --> 07:15.840 the inbox has the image as well as the converted text. So I put it into my system, 07:15.840 --> 07:22.240 the org mode system. So that's how my workflow really is. I don't know if I answered that 07:22.240 --> 07:30.720 question very well. I've used X journal, but not a whole lot to give you intelligent advice. 07:32.160 --> 07:36.560 Have you tried out remarkable device to take handwritten notes as well? I haven't figured out 07:36.560 --> 07:43.280 how to link the files back into org mode in a constructive way yet. Okay, so yes, I've heard 07:43.280 --> 07:50.160 of remarkable devices. There's another one called Books, if I'm not wrong, and Amazon has also come 07:50.160 --> 07:58.240 up with a writing, I call it the writing Kindle. I don't know what it's called, a smarter name for 07:58.240 --> 08:08.720 that. So these devices do exist, but I'm not sure if they convert it into text and if they can put 08:08.720 --> 08:15.760 it in a repository, which is accessible on your computer, where you can import it into org mode. 08:15.760 --> 08:24.560 I'm not so sure about those things. So linking that would be nice if you can have access to 08:24.560 --> 08:31.600 where your Emacs org mode ecosystem is. For me, Dropbox works very well because it's on my mobile 08:31.600 --> 08:38.480 phone, smartphone, as well as on my computer. So the linking happens and I can just push it all 08:38.480 --> 08:46.160 into my org mode inbox and process them and refile the notes or do all the good stuff linking. If I 08:46.160 --> 08:52.000 have the text, I can link them, do all that I can. I can certainly do that. So that's my answer to 08:52.880 --> 09:00.000 the... where did it go? Remarkable stuff. That question is gone. I don't know. Okay, anyway, 09:00.000 --> 09:03.200 so that was... Yeah, I don't see it either anymore. It's disappeared, but thank you for 09:03.200 --> 09:12.080 taking the time to answer it. Okay. So next one. How are we on time, Leo? I can talk all day. 09:13.360 --> 09:17.360 You are completely good on time. Don't worry. We have until 45 at the current hour 09:17.920 --> 09:22.480 until we need to move on to the next box. It's very roomy. Take your time answering as many 09:22.480 --> 09:27.520 questions as you want. Okay. All right. So I won't have either. All right. Something to think about 09:27.520 --> 09:33.440 is handwritten and org transcribed notes, deduplication for searching. Do you want one or 09:33.440 --> 09:39.360 the other? Oh, okay. So this is wishlist. Oh, thank you so much for asking this question. Transcription 09:39.360 --> 09:45.840 for me has become important, not only handwritten, but also voice notes. So this is another thing 09:45.840 --> 09:53.440 that I've been... I have a couple of podcasts where I want a summary of my important points 09:53.440 --> 10:01.760 and I can grab the voice clips, but transcribing it, in spite of so many tools out there, 10:01.760 --> 10:06.880 I find it very difficult to transcribe them automatically. I can make the error corrections 10:06.880 --> 10:13.680 later on, but I find it extremely cumbersome to transcribe voice notes. So it would be nice 10:13.680 --> 10:21.760 if we can have voice transcription, one. Handwritten transcription also helps for sure. 10:21.760 --> 10:29.360 If it can be done, then it makes it... Actually, that's a great idea. Transcription. I wasn't 10:29.360 --> 10:36.400 thinking of inside. I was thinking of basically taking the notes and somehow linking it within 10:36.400 --> 10:43.600 the handwritten stuff itself. Maybe my limitation imagination, but transcription is definitely 10:43.600 --> 10:51.200 something that I would be very interested in. Voice as well as handwriting. I've seen it in 10:51.200 --> 10:57.200 some other software. I think it was OneNote where I saw that you can record yourself vocally and 10:58.000 --> 11:03.360 also there is a transcribe for paid packages. They have transcription as well. And then you 11:03.360 --> 11:10.880 could link text from there on. So if we can do it in our R mode system, nothing like that. I keep 11:10.880 --> 11:21.920 seeing it and notes keep coming up there. I keep writing it on my Wacom device or my remarkable 11:21.920 --> 11:28.880 device and it goes into my R mode as I write and as I speak. Unbelievable. This is important. This 11:28.880 --> 11:35.120 is really important. Thanks for the great idea. I hope this... Again, I volunteer myself to test 11:35.120 --> 11:43.120 this out as well. I have tons of... At least this year, I have produced 300 minutes of podcast 11:43.120 --> 11:52.720 content and I find it extremely cumbersome to transcribe it easily. So if this can do it for us, 11:52.720 --> 12:01.280 at least even a minute or two of the text, nothing like it. That's amazing. The last question I see 12:01.280 --> 12:08.080 is how often do you instead type in and summarize your notes? Would you consider that a suitable 12:08.080 --> 12:17.120 approach for yourself at the end of the day? That's a good idea of typing notes. When I'm in 12:17.120 --> 12:26.400 a hurry, I type. So when I'm in a tearing hurry or my notes is just lying somewhere and there's 12:26.400 --> 12:32.400 a meeting going on, I don't want to get up and go get my notes, I immediately go to my R mode and 12:32.400 --> 12:39.680 start typing there. So that's what I do. At the end of the day, I don't have that habit at all. 12:39.680 --> 12:44.480 I promised myself that I should do daily journaling and all that because it's... Everybody 12:44.480 --> 12:50.240 says it's a good habit. I've done it a few times and I found it to be good, but it's not a habit 12:50.240 --> 13:00.400 I'm yet on. So I mean, I also have a shortcut, a keyboard shortcut for the org-grown dailies. 13:01.360 --> 13:05.440 I do have that and it shows up on the calendar, the blue color. I love those features, 13:05.440 --> 13:11.520 but I'm not on it. I should make it a habit. As much as I look at my org agenda, 13:11.520 --> 13:21.280 you should have dailies as well. I type out when I'm in a hurry. Perhaps even writing 13:22.240 --> 13:30.720 your daily journal could be helpful. Particularly, I find that I'm comfortable typing English 13:30.720 --> 13:40.080 letters. If non-English, for example, my mother tongue has a different script, which I can't 13:40.080 --> 13:46.560 easily type using English. So perhaps writing is easier there for me rather than typing it out. 13:46.560 --> 13:56.000 It feels very weird. So perhaps that could help for non-English, non-Roman script. Perhaps 13:56.000 --> 13:59.840 writing is better for journaling as well. I guess that could help. 14:02.320 --> 14:07.040 Okay, Bala, if I can interrupt you for a second because don't worry, I'm not stopping you with 14:07.040 --> 14:12.000 the questions. I told you you have until 45 and I will honor what I said before. But I just wanted 14:12.000 --> 14:17.440 to let people know that we have opened up the BBB chat room. So if people want to join the room now 14:17.440 --> 14:21.440 and ask questions directly to Bala, who has already answered many of your questions on the 14:21.440 --> 14:27.520 pad, but if you have more questions or if you'd just like to chat with Bala, well, do feel free to 14:28.320 --> 14:34.240 join the room. The link has been pasted on the ISE channels. It's also available on the talk page at 14:34.240 --> 14:39.040 the top. So you should be able to find the link pretty easily. And even if we move to the next 14:39.040 --> 14:42.960 talk, if you're still there and still want to chat with Bala, provided Bala is available and does not 14:42.960 --> 14:48.400 need to sleep, by the way, with respect to the fact that it's really late over there, do feel free to 14:48.400 --> 14:53.200 hang around a little more and ask more questions and we'll be posting all of this on the website 14:53.200 --> 14:58.000 afterwards. So Bala, I think, do you have one more question on the pad or was it the last one? 14:58.000 --> 15:04.080 Let me check. I think that was the last one. Oh, there is a new question coming up just before that. 15:04.800 --> 15:11.280 Do take it then. Sure. I was going to say something of an experience I wanted to share, 15:11.280 --> 15:18.720 but anyway, I can answer this. How fancy has your handwritten notes import been? 15:18.720 --> 15:28.800 Okay, I'm going to wait for this. I'm not sure if we're talking about importing the notes into, 15:28.800 --> 15:34.080 like, is it merely importing the files or is it about importing it to your note-taking system, 15:34.080 --> 15:42.720 like, or whatnot? Okay, okay, okay. I get it. I get it. So I have a simple system for, yes, 15:42.720 --> 15:50.240 I absolutely agree with you. I mean, the birth of org-mode was that you wanted notes and you wanted 15:50.240 --> 15:57.120 tasks inside it, right? So that was the origin of that. So I think the same philosophy applies for 15:57.120 --> 16:03.440 handwritten notes as well because you're writing down notes and somebody says, hey Bala, can you 16:03.440 --> 16:10.560 send me this document by next Wednesday? And I write that down in my notes and then I send it 16:10.560 --> 16:18.000 and I write that down in my notes and that's a task. So I just put a star next to it. So I know 16:18.000 --> 16:25.600 when I am scanning, I don't think that shows up as a, I don't think star shows up as anything in my 16:26.240 --> 16:34.320 import, but I know when I'm scanning it that I need to keep track of that as a task. So in the 16:34.320 --> 16:44.880 talk about it is in OneNote, control-1 is the shortcut for ToDo and if it is converted into 16:44.880 --> 16:54.720 text, yes, of course, alt-enter in org-mode will work as well. So yes, so I think that is important 16:54.720 --> 17:01.040 even, so that's the only thing that I do is an asterisk or a star just before the note so that 17:01.040 --> 17:09.360 it tells me that it is a task that I have to keep track of. I even put a date so that the 17:09.360 --> 17:18.160 numbers also get imported into org-mode. But my wish list, this has gotten me into me wishing is 17:18.880 --> 17:25.600 if the handwriting notes, I mean the gadget, the device, the remarkable or the Amazon 17:25.600 --> 17:34.160 writing pads of the world, if we can actually write down notes with a star, an asterisk, 17:34.160 --> 17:40.320 and the headline and scheduled and all that and import it directly into org-mode, I think 17:40.320 --> 17:47.840 that's doing away with a whole bunch of in-between scanning, uploading, processing, and all that. This 17:47.840 --> 17:54.000 can go directly, you can start refiling into your system. So that would be nice. So somebody 17:54.000 --> 18:01.520 is asking me for a wish list, here's one more too, if we can do that. So that makes basically 18:01.520 --> 18:08.960 a writing org-mode rather than like as if it's a language, like a human language, rather than it 18:08.960 --> 18:14.080 being something restricted to a computer. So that's interesting. That's an interesting thought. 18:15.440 --> 18:22.480 Just to glorify handwriting, I don't know if it has anything to do with the questions. A few days 18:22.480 --> 18:30.400 ago, a client of mine asked me for a talk and I was going to give them the plain vanilla talk, 18:31.280 --> 18:38.880 but I decided to pause myself and write down what I was going to talk about. Actually that gave 18:38.880 --> 18:48.080 rise to a completely different idea and the whole thing was far more effective compared to what was 18:48.080 --> 18:57.280 my plain vanilla. According to me, that handwritten ideation that I did with a white space really 18:57.280 --> 19:05.600 helped me think beyond what was my plain vanilla talk. Of course, the talk went well, I think, 19:06.160 --> 19:12.640 and the audience did have fun because I even jotted down a few things that I wanted to crack 19:12.640 --> 19:19.120 jokes on. All that went into my notes. So I think handwriting is sort of under-marketed, 19:19.120 --> 19:25.680 underplayed so much with the advent of typing and these things becoming so efficient and easy 19:25.680 --> 19:32.000 that I think that all your ideas, if they come together, I think handwritten notes will become 19:33.200 --> 19:40.160 part and parcel of the org-mode system itself and an effective and efficient way of capturing our 19:40.160 --> 19:49.280 thoughts. All right, Bala. So I think you don't have any more questions currently. I don't see 19:49.280 --> 19:53.040 anyone with a microphone on. So by the way, if you're joining us on BBB and if you want to ask 19:53.040 --> 19:57.120 your questions, you do have to join with a microphone. It is interesting for you to join 19:57.120 --> 20:02.960 listening only, but if everyone does this and nobody turns on the microphone, it's going to be 20:02.960 --> 20:07.200 very lonely for Bala and myself. I can ask questions for you. I have plenty of questions 20:07.200 --> 20:11.680 that I'd love to ask. I did get my own tablet. Oh, actually, let me show the stream. Let me... 20:11.680 --> 20:17.200 Oops. Can I un-full screen this? Yes. Okay. Let me try to make the screen a little bigger so that 20:17.200 --> 20:21.680 you can see me. Okay. I was going to talk to you about, if we have a little more time, because I do 20:21.680 --> 20:26.800 have a tablet like this, which allows me to do handwritten notes. This is... Don't worry too much. 20:26.800 --> 20:32.720 This is a lead code exit slide that I was solving. And this is Yink, which allows me to type my 20:32.720 --> 20:38.640 stuff. And I bought this about two years ago. And I've really been struggling to find ways to... 20:40.080 --> 20:44.720 How do I work both in the Emacs and how do I work with my NVDA notes, which is why I was really 20:44.720 --> 20:49.840 interested with your talk, because honestly, right now, those are two completely separate 20:49.840 --> 20:54.800 collections of notes. What is in my machine, this device right there, is its own thing. 20:56.080 --> 21:01.760 It has its own quality. Do I do my journaling in it? I do my journaling, maybe. I also do my lead 21:01.760 --> 21:09.040 code exercise. But that's about it. And I wish it were easy for me to connect the dots between 21:09.040 --> 21:14.400 what I've got on this device and what I've got on my computer right in front of me. So I can talk 21:14.400 --> 21:20.800 some more about this, but people could also join and ask their own questions. I can talk to Bala 21:20.800 --> 21:27.840 whenever I want. I've been in touch with Bala for quite a while. And I'll be able to do this 21:27.840 --> 21:32.640 whenever. But this is your chance for you to do this, to have your question answered, 21:32.640 --> 21:38.640 and for the question to leave on EmacsConf forever and ever. All the talks for EmacsConf, 21:38.640 --> 21:44.080 all the questions since three years ago have been published. So it is your chance to, 21:45.440 --> 21:50.160 if you're not making a talk of your own, at least you have the questions of your own leaving on 21:50.160 --> 21:59.920 a website. So Bala, I believe you were a little interested with my little device. Do you actually 21:59.920 --> 22:04.640 have a device of your own that allows you to take notes like this? Or is it just written on paper? 22:06.240 --> 22:14.800 My computer is a touchscreen, so I can write. I have a stylus that I can use to write anywhere 22:14.800 --> 22:22.080 on the screen. So I take the laptop and actually fold it, and I can use it like a notebook. So this 22:22.080 --> 22:29.840 is my use case these days. So when I'm learning, I'm learning Japanese, by the way. And I tell you, 22:30.480 --> 22:35.840 there's no way I could have retained so much if I had not written Japanese out, the characters. So 22:37.200 --> 22:44.400 this is critical. Writing is critical. And their ideas, when they're externalized, 22:44.400 --> 22:50.160 you see it while you're writing it, there's a physical action, you feel the proximity to your 22:50.800 --> 23:00.800 ideas, what you're doing. So typing, yes, it is also physical. But for me, it's one step away from 23:02.160 --> 23:07.760 writing down. For me, that's going to make you laugh. I was also studying Japanese and I do have 23:07.760 --> 23:14.800 my own kanji that allows me to do my practice. So please don't look at it. If you're going to pause 23:14.800 --> 23:18.640 this video and check what I've written, you will be sorely disappointed because those are just 23:18.640 --> 23:24.160 collection of verbs. But this is how I practice my kanji as well. And it's been amazing. This is, 23:25.040 --> 23:28.800 you know, it is such a wonderful usage, because if you try learning kanji, 23:28.800 --> 23:32.480 just by seeing them and not putting them in your hand or embedding them in your hands, 23:32.480 --> 23:38.400 it's so complicated to do so. Oh, we have more things in common than I imagined. Okay. 23:40.400 --> 23:45.760 Yeah. So we happen to have someone in the room currently. Jack, I believe, is their nickname. 23:46.480 --> 23:50.000 Do you have a question? And do you want to maybe unmute yourself to ask the question? 23:50.000 --> 23:53.520 You are more than welcome to do so now. I might actually need to unmute you. Actually, 23:53.520 --> 23:56.640 I can't. Can you unmute yourself and ask the question if you want to? 23:56.640 --> 24:06.640 I'm just trying to get my headset set up. I'm having the similar struggle with this issue of 24:06.640 --> 24:12.880 handwriting my notes because that's the easiest way for me to write them quickly. It's also very, 24:12.880 --> 24:20.880 it does help me retain the information better. But then getting them back into org mode. I'm 24:20.880 --> 24:26.480 about to start experimenting with some of the iPad apps like Notability and GoodNotes to see 24:26.480 --> 24:36.320 if that can work or if I can use Apple Notes for that as well. My interests are probably similar 24:36.320 --> 24:46.960 to yours. I'm studying computer science, and I have two kinds of notes that are very difficult to 24:46.960 --> 24:54.000 transcribe. Mind maps, which is often the way I take class notes because it's a good outlining 24:54.000 --> 25:04.960 form. But the handwriting recognition blows if you're part of the expression. And equations, 25:04.960 --> 25:16.000 particularly involving proof steps for formal semantics. And I'm wondering if you have any ideas 25:16.000 --> 25:22.720 about mind mapping in particular and getting those incorporated from handwritten notes. I hate using 25:22.720 --> 25:31.840 the mind mapping tools that are available. I find that that replaces the bad methods that 25:31.840 --> 25:42.240 I use. It replaces the bad memory generation from typing with a bad memory generation for mind 25:42.240 --> 25:53.440 mapping. But if you have any thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Actually, I have used mind mapping 25:53.440 --> 26:08.240 tools. I use something called function maps, where you not only have interlinking relationships, 26:08.240 --> 26:13.360 this also has what is the relationship, what is the nature of relationships. All that I've been 26:13.360 --> 26:23.760 drawing it on my laptop screen. So that helps me internalize that. So I do not convert it into 26:23.760 --> 26:31.920 any other digital format. I leave it as a picture because every time I read it, but in the digital 26:31.920 --> 26:40.160 format itself, when you have new understanding, you can actually add another object and interlink 26:40.160 --> 26:45.680 them and add the relationship. So it's a lot easier if it's on this. But on a piece of paper, 26:46.960 --> 26:55.040 drawing a mind map and or function map and editing it and moving things around becomes a problem. 26:55.040 --> 27:04.320 So I find that doing it on a device and retaining it as such, not converting it into a free mind or 27:04.320 --> 27:12.240 any of those kind of XML or anything like that, doesn't help me at all, or a plan TML even. But 27:12.240 --> 27:20.720 I find that I leave it as such in the digital format. You can select it, like a lasso select, 27:20.720 --> 27:27.440 move it around and add new objects or remove it or shade it. You can do all those good stuff, 27:27.440 --> 27:34.640 if it is remaining in the same way. So I like it to be that way. Yeah, I've done that as well 27:34.640 --> 27:44.560 on the iPad. I'll use Nebo or something like that to give me a good way of rearranging the mind map 27:45.600 --> 27:53.840 directly in the iPad, exporting it as a JPEG and linking it to other notes documents that I have. 27:53.840 --> 28:03.040 But I do wish I had a better way of extracting the keywords that come out of it and having 28:03.040 --> 28:09.840 those searchable. But I get it. Okay, the answer is no, I don't have any. I usually link the live 28:09.840 --> 28:17.840 document itself into org mode. So for example, OneNote. OneNote colon and the entire... I just 28:17.840 --> 28:22.640 click on that and it goes, opens the exact document that I want and I can add more to it. 28:22.640 --> 28:28.000 I do something very simple. 28:28.000 --> 28:33.200 All right, folks, I'm really sorry for interrupting you, but we are getting close to time. 28:33.200 --> 28:38.560 Thank you so much for joining. We have four people on the scene right now, which is amazing. 28:38.560 --> 28:45.440 You can continue talking about this and people can still tune in. The link to the BBB room 28:45.440 --> 28:50.640 is still available on Bala's talk. You go to EmacsConf 2022, you go to the talk of Bala and 28:50.640 --> 28:55.200 you'll find the link at the top of the page. You can come in the room and chat with Bala some more. 28:55.200 --> 28:58.960 But for us on the stream, we're going to move on to the next talk in about 40 seconds. 28:58.960 --> 29:02.400 So Bala, thank you so much for taking all the time answering all the questions. And thank you, 29:02.400 --> 29:08.240 Gag, also for coming and asking also lovely questions. I suppose it was really good. 29:08.960 --> 29:14.720 Yeah, thank you. It was great seeing you. Sorry, I'm rushing because I'm being pressed for time. 29:14.720 --> 29:21.360 And I will see you both whenever I see you. OK, bye bye everyone. 29:21.360 --> 29:23.280 See you. Bye bye, Leo. Take care. 29:28.000 --> 29:32.080 Actually, I'm not sure. We are probably getting the next talk started currently, 29:32.080 --> 29:36.000 so you can probably still hear me on the stream, but it's going to take about 29:36.000 --> 29:37.760 three seconds. I'll see you after. 29:37.760 --> 29:47.200 OK, we are now off air. Thank you so much, Bala, for taking the time to answer all the questions. 29:48.160 --> 29:49.120 Thank you. Ciao. 29:50.320 --> 29:54.800 Yeah, I think no one is left in a BBB room, so I think people are probably not going to show up. 29:54.800 --> 29:58.480 So you've earned your well, your rest for tonight. 29:59.920 --> 30:00.720 OK, thanks. 30:01.840 --> 30:05.040 Mine will not come before a long time. I still have about seven hours to stream. 30:05.040 --> 30:07.120 Oh, my God. OK. 30:09.360 --> 30:11.440 All right. Well, thank you so much, Bala. See you next time. 30:11.440 --> 30:14.400 Thanks. Have a good day and I'll catch you soon. OK. 30:14.960 --> 30:16.160 Sure. Bye bye. 30:16.160 --> 30:35.440 Bye bye. 30:46.960 --> 30:55.440 Bye. 30:55.440 --> 31:05.520 Bye. 31:05.520 --> 31:25.520 Bye. 31:35.520 --> 31:36.580 Bye. 32:05.520 --> 32:06.580 Bye. 32:35.520 --> 32:36.980 Bye. 33:05.520 --> 33:06.020 Bye.