+00:00:00.599 --> 00:00:04.140 [Speaker 0]: Again, second only live Q&A of the day.
+00:00:04.339 --> 00:00:06.339 So, things are still a bit rusty,
+00:00:06.339 --> 00:00:08.379 but believe me, by the end of the morning,
+00:00:08.380 --> 00:00:12.259 we will be well-oiled machinery.
+00:00:12.340 --> 00:00:13.940 So, hi Marcus, how are you doing?
+00:00:14.540 --> 00:00:15.860 [Speaker 1]: I'm fine, Thank you.
+00:00:17.500 --> 00:00:20.020 [Speaker 0]: I really liked, most people might have
+00:00:20.020 --> 00:00:22.180 forgotten, but you started your presentation
+00:00:22.360 --> 00:00:26.340 with the, in a very dark room and with this
+00:00:26.680 --> 00:00:29.340 typical note of dry German humor that I
+00:00:29.340 --> 00:00:30.900 particularly liked.
+00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.280 [Speaker 1]: Whereas I told you we're born without humour
+00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:38.300 so any sense of humour is the result of very
+00:00:38.300 --> 00:00:39.059 hard work.
+00:00:40.940 --> 00:00:44.280 [Speaker 0]: Well I can confirm therefore that your work
+00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:46.600 is evident in this particular remark.
+00:00:47.780 --> 00:00:50.879 So as we did before and perhaps this time
+00:00:50.940 --> 00:00:54.320 more punctiliously, terrible adverb,
+00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:58.100 that's why I'm an English major we will be
+00:00:58.100 --> 00:01:00.420 taking questions first from the pad and then
+00:01:00.420 --> 00:01:03.740 we'll be moving on to people in the BBV room.
+00:01:03.740 --> 00:01:05.540 Let me just check if we have some people.
+00:01:05.540 --> 00:01:06.720 We do have some people.
+00:01:06.960 --> 00:01:08.860 All right, so Markus, I'm gonna ask you the
+00:01:08.860 --> 00:01:11.200 questions in the pad unless you have
+00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:12.600 something to remark first.
+00:01:13.080 --> 00:01:15.060 [Speaker 1]: Yes, oh no, no, I don't have nothing to
+00:01:15.060 --> 00:01:17.800 remark. I mean, only that we're coming to the
+00:01:17.800 --> 00:01:20.200 end of the term here, and I think in the
+00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:24.140 paper that I wrote, I expressed doubt that
+00:01:24.140 --> 00:01:25.560 Emacs was good for beginners,
+00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:31.720 but I've now gone back to an interactive
+00:01:31.780 --> 00:01:34.020 notebook in the class without Emacs,
+00:01:34.080 --> 00:01:37.500 and I've just missed it terribly the whole
+00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:39.220 term. And I think I saw you walk too,
+00:01:39.220 --> 00:01:40.540 so that's kind of interesting.
+00:01:41.380 --> 00:01:42.160 That's it.
+00:01:42.270 --> 00:01:43.580 [Speaker 0]: Right. All right, well,
+00:01:43.580 --> 00:01:45.040 let's get started with the questions because
+00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:47.940 I'm a little worried that we might acquire
+00:01:48.340 --> 00:01:50.580 debt because of the time that we have.
+00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:53.040 And just to be clear, so that you also know
+00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:54.479 the time at which we're supposed to be
+00:01:54.479 --> 00:01:57.240 finishing, the next talk here on this track
+00:01:57.240 --> 00:01:59.560 is supposed to be at 10.40,
+00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:01.740 which is in 13 minutes from now.
+00:02:01.800 --> 00:02:03.220 All right, with that said,
+00:02:03.240 --> 00:02:04.500 starting with the first questions.
+00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.300 What tools do you use for making your slides?
+00:02:07.300 --> 00:02:09.440 They are very nice and I concur.
OrgReveal?
+00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:22.600 [Speaker 1]: I use OrgReveal. It's a package,
+00:02:22.980 --> 00:02:26.380 OrgReveal. I don't have the link right now,
+00:02:26.380 --> 00:02:31.560 but it's an org mode package where You create
+00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:35.400 some meta information and I think it's
+00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:39.900 basically JavaScript, JavaScript package that
+00:02:39.900 --> 00:02:41.620 will work from a bunch of different
+00:02:45.580 --> 00:02:49.540 platforms, but it works particularly well
+00:02:49.540 --> 00:02:52.120 from Emacs. So you use that a lot.
+00:02:53.740 --> 00:02:55.440 [Speaker 0]: Right, yeah, I think it is definitely
+00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:57.120 interacting with JavaScript in the background
+00:02:57.120 --> 00:02:59.120 and it makes for a very clean presentation
+00:02:59.440 --> 00:03:01.380 right from Emacs. I mean,
+00:03:01.380 --> 00:03:04.340 it's not opened in Emacs unless you use a web
+00:03:04.340 --> 00:03:06.480 browser in Emacs that supports such
+00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:09.400 compositing but it's pretty convenient and I
+00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:10.780 recommend looking into it.
+00:03:15.140 --> 00:03:19.540 [Speaker 1]: I'm just going to share the URL here.
+00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:21.400 So if anybody's interested.
+00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:24.140 [Speaker 0]: Right, and we'll be putting all the links
+00:03:24.140 --> 00:03:25.600 right now. So obviously right now,
+00:03:25.600 --> 00:03:28.180 Marcus is writing inside of his own Emacs,
+00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:29.340 but we also have the pad.
+00:03:29.340 --> 00:03:31.020 We'll make sure that you have all the links
+00:03:31.020 --> 00:03:32.520 accessible a little bit later.
+00:03:32.660 --> 00:03:34.340 Okay, moving on to the next question,
+00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:35.360 why MDPI?
+00:03:36.820 --> 00:03:40.520 [Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, well that's a little bit of a longer
+00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.600 answer, kind of boring I suppose.
+00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:44.680 So when I came here to the US,
+00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:47.960 I used to teach a lot of graduate courses and
+00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:49.280 I had to suddenly teach a lot of
+00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:50.460 undergraduate courses,
+00:03:50.500 --> 00:03:53.100 which partly motivated this move because it
+00:03:53.100 --> 00:03:55.640 made me realize, as I said in the
+00:03:55.640 --> 00:03:58.020 presentation, how little the students
+00:03:58.020 --> 00:03:59.780 understand of the underlying infrastructure
+00:04:00.040 --> 00:04:01.920 and how important it is for them to work with
+00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:06.440 an IDE that doesn't make coding especially
+00:04:06.540 --> 00:04:09.140 convenient, but that teaches them a lot of
+00:04:09.140 --> 00:04:10.840 the stuff on the side,
+00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.080 you know, while still presenting a very
+00:04:13.440 --> 00:04:17.380 smooth environment, which developers
+00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:22.120 appreciate as well. So I came here and I used
+00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:24.520 to publish like 4 or 5 research papers per
+00:04:24.520 --> 00:04:26.140 year, but I didn't have the time.
+00:04:26.520 --> 00:04:28.760 So I was contacted by MDPI.
+00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:34.340 And it's 1 of those research paper mills,
+00:04:34.700 --> 00:04:37.160 which seem to be springing up where authors
+00:04:37.200 --> 00:04:40.840 can, really the institutions of the authors
+00:04:40.840 --> 00:04:42.560 have to pay so that they can publish,
+00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:44.440 right? So it's not really,
+00:04:44.440 --> 00:04:46.400 and I checked them out and they seem to be
+00:04:46.400 --> 00:04:47.680 proper peer review publishing,
+00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.120 but to be absolutely sure I said,
+00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:50.460 well, you can have my article,
+00:04:51.220 --> 00:04:52.540 but of course for free,
+00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:55.080 I'm not going to pay for you to publish it.
+00:04:55.080 --> 00:04:57.700 And so that's what they did.
+00:04:57.880 --> 00:05:01.160 They invited me and I submitted the paper and
+00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:02.240 it was a very good process.
+00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:04.540 That was a very, it was a good peer review
+00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:06.760 critique. So I changed the paper quite a bit.
+00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:07.940 It's still not a great paper.
+00:05:07.940 --> 00:05:09.320 It's just a small case study.
+00:05:09.320 --> 00:05:12.100 That's the kind of thing that you have a lot
+00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:14.800 in medical research where also people don't
+00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:17.720 have a lot of time to do research,
+00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:19.480 proper research, which takes a very long
+00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:21.520 time. And so that's why MDPI.
+00:05:21.820 --> 00:05:24.660 And they are in the most of the relevant
+00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.780 citation indices. So they are reputable
+00:05:27.900 --> 00:05:30.920 enough. I mean, normally I would say for
+00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.060 anybody who does anything like this,
+00:05:33.260 --> 00:05:36.420 you might not even want to bother with the
+00:05:36.420 --> 00:05:37.640 journal these days anymore.
+00:05:37.640 --> 00:05:39.260 You just go straight to ArcSci,
+00:05:40.520 --> 00:05:41.620 put out your preprint.
+00:05:41.980 --> 00:05:44.540 And in fact, what will happen if you're on
+00:05:44.540 --> 00:05:46.440 ArcSci, if somebody finds it interesting,
+00:05:46.440 --> 00:05:49.900 they're going to reach out to you to capture
+00:05:49.900 --> 00:05:54.280 your paper and have it published under their
+00:05:54.280 --> 00:05:56.120 heading. Oh yeah, actually the other reason
+00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:58.660 why I wanted MDPI is because there were open
+00:05:58.660 --> 00:05:59.980 access from the start.
+00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:02.660 And I really like, if you go to the paper,
+00:06:02.660 --> 00:06:04.200 I really like the way it's presented.
+00:06:04.200 --> 00:06:07.340 So I looked at a few papers and I thought
+00:06:07.340 --> 00:06:12.140 it's a really nice online access,
+00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:13.980 online open access solution.
+00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:17.220 That's the long answer,
sorry.
+00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:21.060 [Speaker 0]: No, that was perfectly fine and you provided
+00:06:21.060 --> 00:06:23.760 many details so it was far from a boring
+00:06:23.760 --> 00:06:25.420 answer, let me reassure you.
+00:06:26.140 --> 00:06:27.100 Moving on to the question,
+00:06:27.100 --> 00:06:29.120 we only have about 8 minutes left so I'd like
+00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.500 to finish those 2 questions and let people in
+00:06:31.500 --> 00:06:34.460 the audience speak. So do you think immersion
+00:06:35.280 --> 00:06:37.500 can be achieved on teaching other students
+00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:38.600 with different backgrounds?
+00:06:39.340 --> 00:06:42.180 [Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, that's a really good question.
+00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:48.380 I had actually a discussion last night with
+00:06:48.380 --> 00:06:49.920 my wife in bed about this,
+00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:52.860 about the use of textbooks which are famously
+00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:55.840 non-immersive because they're consumed away
+00:06:55.840 --> 00:06:58.640 from the class. Very rarely you sit in class
+00:06:58.660 --> 00:07:00.540 like people used to do and read something
+00:07:00.540 --> 00:07:02.420 together. Maybe they did that in English.
+00:07:02.420 --> 00:07:04.700 And that is of course instantly immersive.
+00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:06.700 But in computer science,
+00:07:06.700 --> 00:07:08.180 many other topics, psychology,
+00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:10.300 you know, biology and so on,
+00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:12.260 you cannot get immersion,
+00:07:12.260 --> 00:07:14.240 at least not in a lecture theater.
+00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:16.960 You get it in a lab because people solve the
+00:07:16.960 --> 00:07:18.920 problem and then they're immersed in it.
+00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:20.660 So, but my answer would be,
+00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:22.680 yes, I can think totally immersion can be
+00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:25.520 achieved anywhere, but what you have to do is
+00:07:25.520 --> 00:07:29.500 you have to not lecture and you have to let
+00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:31.640 students do work as you go along.
+00:07:31.640 --> 00:07:33.840 So I used to lecture quite a bit because I
+00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:38.220 was an insecure young professor and just read
+00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:41.400 all my slides and my notes as I used to use,
+00:07:41.400 --> 00:07:43.540 as everybody uses to when they start.
+00:07:44.200 --> 00:07:46.100 But as I went along, I realized,
+00:07:46.100 --> 00:07:48.240 you know, I've got such a grasp of the topic
+00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.080 that I really everything I do now is prepared
+00:07:51.080 --> 00:07:53.720 in Emacs in an interactive way so I start
+00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:55.480 saying a few words and then the students
+00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.000 immediately we get to work and they seem to
+00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:59.840 love that because in most of the other
+00:07:59.840 --> 00:08:01.680 classes people just talk at them they take
+00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.500 their stuff home and work at home,
+00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:05.140 which is of course is super.
+00:08:05.380 --> 00:08:06.680 But most of the students,
+00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:08.600 if they have, in at least in a liberal arts
+00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:10.220 college, they have 5 other classes,
+00:08:10.440 --> 00:08:13.520 they do not take a lot of time to do the work
+00:08:13.520 --> 00:08:16.880 at home. So it's, you know,
+00:08:16.880 --> 00:08:18.840 yeah, It's kind of different.
+00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:20.020 It's kind of risky, yeah,
+00:08:20.020 --> 00:08:22.360 but the main point I was trying to make is
+00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:26.740 Emacs and Org Mode really helped me to boil
+00:08:26.740 --> 00:08:29.220 that interactive session down to something
+00:08:29.220 --> 00:08:30.800 that will work in the classroom.
+00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:32.559 I don't have to jump around between
+00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:33.740 platforms. For example,
+00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:35.799 this term, and I didn't use Emacs in the
+00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:36.919 class with the students,
+00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:40.240 I had to render using a package.
+00:08:40.760 --> 00:08:42.299 It's actually a very nice package called,
+00:08:42.299 --> 00:08:46.100 what's it called? Ox, what's it called?
+00:08:46.100 --> 00:08:50.520 Ox, Ox IPNB. It's called Ox IPNB.
+00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:53.360 So what it does is it renders in the usual
+00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:55.580 way with Emacs, Org Mode does,
+00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.700 renders interactive notebook files in
+00:08:58.700 --> 00:09:01.060 Jupyter. And that took me a lot of time.
+00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.840 And I immediately noticed as soon as the
+00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.180 teacher has to fight platforms themselves,
+00:09:06.660 --> 00:09:09.920 they take the ball off the immersion task,
+00:09:09.920 --> 00:09:12.340 you know, to keep the student on the problem.
+00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:18.560 [Speaker 0]: Yeah. Oh, go on, please.
+00:09:19.400 --> 00:09:22.840 Yeah. I was going to remark that.
+00:09:12.980 --> 00:09:23.260 [Speaker 1]: So yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
+00:09:23.260 --> 00:09:25.120 I suppose it might be MIT style.
+00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:26.140 Big difference though,
+00:09:26.140 --> 00:09:27.900 my classes are very, very short,
+00:09:27.900 --> 00:09:30.060 small. So I have like between 10 and 15
+00:09:30.060 --> 00:09:32.180 students per class. 1 of the reasons why I
+00:09:32.180 --> 00:09:35.080 went to this college is because I was fed up
+00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:36.940 teaching, trying to teach hundreds of
+00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:40.580 students. Okay, sorry,
+00:09:40.580 --> 00:09:42.520 do some of your students nag you about using
+00:09:42.520 --> 00:09:43.460 VS Code? Yes, they do,
+00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:45.300 but their arguments aren't very good.
+00:09:46.800 --> 00:09:48.740 They hadn't really compared Emacs and VS
+00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:51.800 Code. And what I do, actually I use RStudio
+00:09:51.980 --> 00:09:53.860 as well, demonstrate VS Code,
+00:09:53.860 --> 00:10:01.060 RStudio and Emacs. And I think it's very easy
+00:10:01.060 --> 00:10:02.840 for them to see. And there are some videos
+00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:05.020 about that as well, how much easier it is to
+00:10:05.020 --> 00:10:08.520 get into Emacs to limit your investments to
+00:10:08.520 --> 00:10:09.820 what you actually wanna do.
+00:10:09.820 --> 00:10:11.840 When the problem with VS Code is it comes at
+00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.280 you with this sort of Microsoft store
+00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:17.280 ideology, like a gazillion plugins,
+00:10:17.420 --> 00:10:18.840 which if you're a developer,
+00:10:18.900 --> 00:10:20.140 you know what you want.
+00:10:21.040 --> 00:10:24.120 And I mean, it's a bit like VS Code is like
+00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:27.940 Google search for as if you were programming
+00:10:27.980 --> 00:10:30.820 in Google search, a complete waste of time.
+00:10:31.220 --> 00:10:33.280 Having said that, I've also seen some videos
+00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:36.180 with people who really know how to use VS
+00:10:36.180 --> 00:10:37.420 Code. And of course, you know,
+00:10:37.420 --> 00:10:41.180 if somebody gets on the inside of a tool and
+00:10:41.180 --> 00:10:44.480 spends upwards of a thousand hours in the
+00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:45.840 tool, they'll be great.
+00:10:45.920 --> 00:10:47.580 But that's not true for beginners.
+00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:50.780 So hold on, there's another 1.
+00:10:51.020 --> 00:10:52.320 I'm reading them, sorry.
+00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:55.420 Leo, I can see the questions,
+00:10:55.680 --> 00:10:58.000 but you may wanna turn them around.
+00:10:59.700 --> 00:11:00.720 [Speaker 0]: No, No, no, please, please,
+00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:01.560 you're free to read them.
+00:11:01.560 --> 00:11:02.900 I'm on your fasted computer.
+00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:04.600 [Speaker 1]: Some of you, too, that's the nagging.
+00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:06.100 I teach simple programming at a vocational
+00:11:06.100 --> 00:11:07.700 school, and even after showing the students
+00:11:07.700 --> 00:11:09.520 Vim, Vim, of course, is a contender,
+00:11:09.520 --> 00:11:11.260 and now I'm telling them I prefer Emacs.
+00:11:12.180 --> 00:11:14.260 They still all choose VS Code as their
+00:11:14.260 --> 00:11:17.460 editor. Well, okay, what I did is mandatory.
+00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:19.140 I didn't let them choose.
+00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:21.980 That's what I did. And I thought that was
+00:11:21.980 --> 00:11:23.800 quite risky, but in the end,
+00:11:23.860 --> 00:11:26.400 it turns out that the best students loved it
+00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:28.580 and keep using Emacs in their jobs.
+00:11:28.580 --> 00:11:32.640 I hear that now. The students in the middle
+00:11:33.160 --> 00:11:35.860 were probably the ones who would pick VS Code
+00:11:35.860 --> 00:11:38.400 because every tutorial they see,
+00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:40.440 they learn a lot through YouTube and so
+00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:42.260 everything they see is in VS Code.
+00:11:42.260 --> 00:11:44.180 If there were more tutorials in Emacs,
+00:11:44.180 --> 00:11:45.600 I'm trying to make some,
+00:11:45.700 --> 00:11:47.620 then of course that would be different.
+00:11:49.280 --> 00:11:53.940 But I think it's partly brainwashing and
+00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:55.840 partly, of course, the other reason is there
+00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:00.320 is no online Emacs. They use VS Code Dev,
+00:12:00.500 --> 00:12:02.460 right? And that's, of course,
+00:12:03.340 --> 00:12:05.140 they use an online cloud solution.
+00:12:05.420 --> 00:12:07.040 Like most of the students in the high school,
+00:12:07.040 --> 00:12:09.360 I teach Python in the high school right now,
+00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.600 and the students only get Chromebooks that
+00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:14.160 are completely cut down to nothing.
+00:12:15.060 --> 00:12:17.420 They cannot have Linux on their Chromebooks.
+00:12:18.260 --> 00:12:19.900 So what are they supposed to do?
+00:12:19.900 --> 00:12:21.580 Their only choice really is Repl.
+00:12:21.760 --> 00:12:24.240 Repl.com is a possibility for them to do
+00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:27.540 that. But, you know, or they use code spaces,
+00:12:27.660 --> 00:12:29.560 which is VS Code in GitHub.
+00:12:31.400 --> 00:12:32.640 [Speaker 0]: Marcus, sorry for the interruption.
+00:12:32.640 --> 00:12:34.040 We only have about 2 minutes left.
+00:12:34.040 --> 00:12:35.380 So if you could take 1 question,
+00:12:35.380 --> 00:12:36.760 that would be great. Sorry.
+00:12:30.660 --> 00:12:38.100 [Speaker 1]: So. I'm observing the same behavior.
+00:12:38.100 --> 00:12:40.080 Any more tutorials will be most welcome.
+00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.660 Yes, I I'd love to. I spent the rest of my
+00:12:43.660 --> 00:12:46.100 days on this earth making Emacs tutorials if
+00:12:48.263 --> 00:12:49.267 [Speaker 0]: tutorials if I can.
+00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:49.769 [Speaker 1]: I can. Thank you. DMAX Thank you.
+00:12:49.769 --> 00:12:51.040 Approach to handling EDA.
+00:12:51.140 --> 00:12:52.700 Oh yeah, with white data sets.
+00:12:56.760 --> 00:12:58.940 Well, that's a good point.
+00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:03.260 [Speaker 0]: So Markus, I don't want to put you under too
+00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.680 [Speaker 1]: answer the question. The handling EDA,
+00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:08.760 I don't know, if you look at the comments,
+00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:09.960 I think these are on YouTube,
+00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:11.340 right, at some point, Leo?
+00:13:03.260 --> 00:13:12.600 [Speaker 0]: much pressure to Oh yes,
+00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:13.860 they will definitely be on YouTube.
+00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:14.540 answer the
+00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:15.580 [Speaker 1]: I'm going to question you asked about the
+00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:17.560 EDA, that's too long to go into right now,
+00:13:17.560 --> 00:13:21.100 plus my cat is here. So I'm going to answer
+00:13:21.100 --> 00:13:22.620 that in the comments, all right?
+00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:24.160 Start up the conversation.
+00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.800 Yes, I'm going to post that in the comments
+00:13:27.800 --> 00:13:28.480 as well.
+00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.500 [Speaker 0]: Sure, but Also, just to be clear,
+00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:32.640 Marcus, you're going to continue the
+00:13:32.640 --> 00:13:35.440 discussion. It's just a stream that will be
+00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:37.160 moving on to the next talk in about 50
+00:13:37.160 --> 00:13:39.380 seconds. Marcus, feel free to keep answering
+00:13:39.380 --> 00:13:40.760 questions inside this room.
+00:13:40.760 --> 00:13:42.780 You also have people, we're going to check
+00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:44.540 aside with the stream,
+00:13:44.540 --> 00:13:46.280 we have a number of people in the room.
+00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:48.300 You can see them on the left on the button
+00:13:48.640 --> 00:13:51.360 who are probably going to unmute themselves
+00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:52.580 and ask you questions.
+00:13:52.740 --> 00:13:54.440 So feel free to stay in the room,
+00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:57.100 answer as lengthy as you want the questions
+00:13:57.100 --> 00:13:58.700 because that's more content for us and we
+00:13:58.700 --> 00:14:01.640 love it obviously. But it's just that I
+00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:03.760 personally will be leaving to take care of
+00:14:03.760 --> 00:14:04.860 the rest of the talks.
+00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:06.880 So, Markus, do you have any last words before
+00:14:06.880 --> 00:14:07.740 we move on?
+00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:09.680 [Speaker 1]: No, just thank you for this wonderful...
+00:14:09.680 --> 00:14:11.080 I'm going to copy this.
+00:14:11.660 --> 00:14:13.280 I don't think I listened to the talk by
+00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:15.200 Sascha yet, but I'm going to do that because
+00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.080 I really want to copy this conference format.
+00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:19.860 I think that is the conference format of the
+00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:21.820 future, using volunteers to put together
+00:14:21.820 --> 00:14:23.100 conferences. So I can't wait.
+00:14:23.100 --> 00:14:24.720 Nobody wants to come to Batesville where I
+00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:25.840 am, but thank you so much.
+00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:27.180 That was really super professional.
+00:14:27.180 --> 00:14:28.040 I love that.
+00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:32.420 [Speaker 0]: Great. Okay, we are almost perfectly on time.
+00:14:32.420 --> 00:14:35.420 I think we caught up about 1 or 2 seconds
+00:14:35.420 --> 00:14:37.200 into the last sentence you said but otherwise
+00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:38.960 we were splendidly on time.
+00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:40.260 So thank you so much Marcus.
+00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:43.140 [Speaker 1]: You're welcome. So I wanted to say a little
+00:14:43.140 --> 00:14:46.660 bit about that question about handling EDA.
+00:14:51.220 --> 00:14:52.960 [Speaker 0]: Can you see the chat on the left?
+00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:54.720 Because people have started asking questions
+00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:56.180 on the left. Can you see the chat?
+00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:56.866 [Speaker 1]: I mean I used email. Sorry,
+00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:00.820 [Speaker 0]: So you've got multiple avenues for questions.
+00:15:01.020 --> 00:15:01.166 [Speaker 2]: You can
+00:15:01.166 --> 00:15:02.380 [Speaker 0]: still answer questions in the chat.
+00:14:57.053 --> 00:15:03.760 [Speaker 1]: sorry, sorry. Okay, I'm just going to go into
+00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:05.240 that. Yeah, that's fine.
+00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:06.760 [Speaker 0]: Sure, I'll need to go now.
+00:15:06.760 --> 00:15:08.560 So Marcus, have a great day and I'll probably
+00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:09.360 see you later. -NOTE Start of section to review -
+00:15:10.160 --> 00:15:12.280 [Speaker 1]: Yeah, thank you. Sorry.
+00:15:13.140 --> 00:15:15.620 Bye bye. There was a question about the,
+00:15:15.620 --> 00:15:17.560 I wanted to ask the answer the question about
+00:15:17.560 --> 00:15:21.760 EDA, large data sets. So,
+00:15:21.760 --> 00:15:24.660 I mean, I teach undergraduate now,
+00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:28.100 so there's a limited number of courses,
+00:15:28.660 --> 00:15:32.360 like where I use, actually have big data
+00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:36.100 issues. And I mean I'm not saying that I'm
+00:15:36.100 --> 00:15:38.760 not that I don't run into performance issues
+00:15:38.760 --> 00:15:40.580 with Emacs. I obviously do.
+00:15:40.680 --> 00:15:43.680 But like the performance issues in Emacs are
+00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:45.780 comparable to performance issues for example
+00:15:45.780 --> 00:15:49.580 when using R. In R everything is in memory So
+00:15:49.640 --> 00:15:52.700 you are limited to the available,
+00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.020 what is it, 2 gigabyte or whatever memory of
+00:15:56.020 --> 00:15:58.180 your computer. So you would have to find
+00:15:58.180 --> 00:16:00.360 other infrastructure solutions anyway.
+00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:05.860 The advantage of using Emacs is that I can,
+00:16:05.860 --> 00:16:07.620 within 1 Org Mode file,
+00:16:08.140 --> 00:16:10.220 connect to an external database.
+00:16:11.760 --> 00:16:13.840 I can even, as probably most of you know,
+00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:17.860 I can even use it as a text-based web browser
+00:16:17.860 --> 00:16:20.640 if I want to. So I could look at individual
+00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:26.820 files. And the other point of EDA of course
+00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:30.640 is that you're not supposed to look at the
+00:16:30.640 --> 00:16:33.260 tables. You're supposed to get the basic
+00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:41.300 frame of your data. Is there a header?
+00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:43.780 What's the approximate size and stuff like
+00:16:43.780 --> 00:16:45.940 that? And then you're supposed to import it
+00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:47.580 into a data frame ideally,
+00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:51.260 at least in portions. And I don't think,
+00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.260 yeah, so that's it. But the full answer is
+00:16:56.260 --> 00:16:59.980 that I have not done big data analysis in
+00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:02.280 Emacs. So that's actually a really nice
+00:17:02.380 --> 00:17:06.060 extension. I'm going to write that down as a
+00:17:06.060 --> 00:17:08.260 thing to talk about in some future talk.
+00:17:08.260 --> 00:17:10.819 Okay, so ADA with big data.
+00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.940 Even though interesting would be to know what
+00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:16.560 kind of size of data you're actually talking
+00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:19.300 about. So I don't know,
+00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:25.940 what is it, upwards of 1 terabyte or
+00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:27.520 something like that, I don't know.
+00:17:27.520 --> 00:17:29.020 That'd be interesting to know.
+00:17:31.560 --> 00:17:34.940 Haven't done that in class.
+00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:40.460 So there's another question.
+00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.020 Proportion of students that you think would
+00:17:43.020 --> 00:17:44.820 keep on using Emacs after your course?
+00:17:44.820 --> 00:17:46.000 That's not a difficult question,
+00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.880 because as I said, I have very small classes.
+00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.200 I've been here since 2 years.
+00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.540 So I'm in touch with almost all the students.
+00:17:51.580 --> 00:17:54.760 In fact, I'm getting them work after school.
+00:17:54.760 --> 00:17:55.980 So that's really cool.
+00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:00.660 And everybody who took to Emacs really
+00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:03.900 seriously, so probably about 25% or so keep
+00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:06.160 using Emacs after, afterwards.
+00:18:06.560 --> 00:18:08.360 I mean, even in the job,
+00:18:08.360 --> 00:18:10.080 right, in the professional field.
+00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.080 Who, those who keep using Emacs after the
+00:18:13.080 --> 00:18:15.180 course, I think the number is greater,
+00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.920 but I have not followed up on that.
+00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:23.140 I have to, my guess is more than half,
+00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:25.360 I would say, half or more than half.
+00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:27.880 Oh, Aaron, thank you so much.
+00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:31.320 That's very sweet. But I didn't think the
+00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:32.300 presentation was great.
+00:18:32.300 --> 00:18:33.840 I was thinking about redoing it,
+00:18:33.840 --> 00:18:35.700 but this is actually the first take.
+00:18:36.280 --> 00:18:38.860 It was late, I had lots of other stuff to do.
+00:18:40.840 --> 00:18:44.700 I think what I'm more interested in than
+00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:47.260 papers is probably this idea of making
+00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:51.020 Emacs-based data science videos because there
+00:18:51.020 --> 00:18:52.120 aren't many out there.
+00:18:52.120 --> 00:18:53.600 Most of the people who do,
+00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:57.240 and computer science, most people who do that
+00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.240 are not either developers and certainly not
+00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:02.080 teachers. So I think that's a good idea.
+00:19:02.080 --> 00:19:03.740 I'm gonna pick that up.
+00:19:03.860 --> 00:19:15.540 So to do more Remax based data science videos
+00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:20.200 Is there anything else?
+00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:22.360 More people. There are some people here in
+00:19:22.360 --> 00:19:23.300 the room still.
+00:19:23.800 --> 00:19:26.100 [Speaker 2]: If you do a PSVL on work.
+00:19:27.040 --> 00:19:31.140 What? Or wiki. What's my YouTube channel?
+00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:36.220 [Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, I'm going to give you the,
+00:19:36.560 --> 00:19:38.520 I've got a bunch of different YouTube
+00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:40.720 channels. I'm going to put them in the
+00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.240 comments to my talk. Hold on,
+00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:46.500 the 1 where I have the latest Emacs videos,
+00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.740 you find my name, there's nobody in the world
+00:19:48.740 --> 00:19:51.060 with my name. So if you look for Gerten Krag
+00:19:52.120 --> 00:19:55.740 on YouTube, then you will find it.
-[Speaker 2]: But I got a bunch of them. +00:19:59.120 --> 00:20:00.300 +But I got a bunch of them.
+00:20:00.300 --> 00:20:01.900 Hold on, I'm going to give you the...
-[Speaker 1]: My channel. Okay, This 1 has only got a few +00:20:13.260 --> 00:20:20.040 +My channel. Okay, This 1 has only got a few
+00:20:20.220 --> 00:20:24.300 videos. But so there's 1 with a lot more.
+00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:32.720 Few recent videos. And I'm going to post
+00:20:32.740 --> 00:20:41.320 more. Other ones in the comments of this
+00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:44.320 video. Okay, what else?
+00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:51.140 I'm trying to find my way back to the button.
+00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.200 Okay, cool. Oh, yes, thank you.
+00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:01.500 I will. That's very good.
+00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:03.120 Thank you so much. Of course,
+00:21:03.120 --> 00:21:05.940 I use Vork. I hadn't even thought of it.
+00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:15.140 Very good. It's interesting,
+00:21:15.860 --> 00:21:18.020 that's something that comes to my mind.
+00:21:18.120 --> 00:21:19.700 When I was a young student,
+00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:24.020 right, people who used Emacs and the web
+00:21:24.020 --> 00:21:25.920 wasn't particularly large.
+00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:29.440 So the volunteers would automatically make
+00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:31.420 videos but not for commercial purposes.
+00:21:31.560 --> 00:21:34.740 Now you have an army of people who make
+00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:37.700 commercial videos and the videos are usually
+00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.020 good for the first 10% of every content,
+00:21:41.040 --> 00:21:42.540 but as soon as it gets a little more
+00:21:42.540 --> 00:21:44.760 difficult, they either don't know what to do
+00:21:44.760 --> 00:21:48.600 anymore or they don't do it because it's not
+00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:50.980 commercially viable. The number of people who
+00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:53.720 move on is gets smaller and smaller and
+00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:55.740 smaller. So there's no commerce anymore.
+00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:57.840 But when I was a student,
+00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:01.020 pretty much all the documentation everywhere
+00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:02.360 was created by volunteers,
+00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:04.840 just like this conference or like anything in
+00:22:04.840 --> 00:22:09.520 org mode. And that doesn't seem to be much of
+00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:12.760 a trend anymore, but maybe we can resurrect
-it. So, yes, I'm definitely going to -
-contribute to that. Multiple people are +00:22:12.860 --> 00:22:22.960 +it. So yes, I'm definitely gonna contribute
-typing here. Oh, sorry. +00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.760 +to that. Multiple people are typing here.
-Yes. Thank you so much. +00:22:30.280 --> 00:22:36.180 +Oh, sorry. Yes. Thank you so much.
+00:22:37.060 --> 00:22:40.920 I'm gonna put that, I'm gonna rectify that in
+00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:45.260 the comment. Having said that,
+00:22:45.260 --> 00:22:49.820 I am not 100% sure that I didn't lie here.
+00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:52.760 May just be because I didn't have much time
+00:22:52.760 --> 00:22:54.340 to put the presentation together.
+00:22:54.340 --> 00:22:56.820 And it's perfectly possible that that's
+00:22:56.820 --> 00:22:59.760 actually Google slides and not all reveal.
+00:23:00.040 --> 00:23:02.360 In the classroom when I present and just do
+00:23:02.360 --> 00:23:04.100 lectures, I always do reveal,
+00:23:04.600 --> 00:23:07.900 but most of the time I do a tree slide.
+00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:10.840 That's the quickest way to do it for me.
+00:23:10.840 --> 00:23:15.060 So, so presentation. Hold on,
+00:23:15.060 --> 00:23:16.580 Let me just copy this 1.
+00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:20.780 Make sure that this doesn't get lost.
+00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:23.220 Thank you so much for that.
+00:23:24.280 --> 00:23:26.100 And presentations in class.
+00:23:28.780 --> 00:23:30.320 I use sometimes org-present,
+00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:32.860 but there are issues with the font sometimes.
+00:23:33.740 --> 00:23:36.960 I use Treeslide most of the time and Org
+00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:44.740 [Speaker 2]: tool.
+00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:46.780 [Speaker 1]: Reveal. But this 1 is my top Of course,
+00:23:46.780 --> 00:23:49.140 this is not org, so forget about that.
+00:24:02.660 --> 00:24:08.220 Okay. Yeah, so you can send me your,
+00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:12.160 you've got my email, I think,
+00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:14.060 on the end, if you're interested in following
+00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:16.360 up or letting me know about your stuff.
+00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:18.220 It might be interesting to,
+00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.040 I don't know, might be interesting to put
+00:24:20.040 --> 00:24:22.040 together a conference or a little seminar
+00:24:22.040 --> 00:24:22.980 just for educators.
+00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:39.025 DF is still typing, I'm waiting.
+00:24:39.025 --> 00:24:39.780 I'm waiting.
+00:24:44.840 --> 00:24:46.400 [Speaker 2]: Actually, our mod maintainer,
-Bastian, was talking about the possibility to +00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:52.340 +Bastien, was talking about possibility to
-have just an Org Mod conference. +00:24:52.340 --> 00:24:54.120 +have just org mod conference.
+00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:59.180 But the question is, is it worth making a
-[Speaker 1]: A whole separate 1 what? +00:24:54.780 --> 00:25:02.940 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah. A whole separate 1 what?
+00:24:59.180 --> 00:25:05.020 [Speaker 2]: whole separate 1? A whole separate org
+00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:09.600 [Speaker 1]: Oh, I see. Yeah, probably would be.
Actually.
+00:25:05.020 --> 00:25:13.940 [Speaker 2]: dedicated conference. It's just like you see
+00:25:13.940 --> 00:25:15.980 how EmacsConf is well done.
-So it's like creating anything that as good +00:25:16.800 --> 00:25:19.340 +So it's like creating anything that has good
+00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:25.540 [Speaker 1]: Yes. No, I think that's a good idea.
+00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:26.620 Yeah, I mean.
-[Speaker 2]: as tricky. I mean, Okay, +00:25:19.340 --> 00:25:30.480 +[Speaker 2]: is tricky. I mean, Okay,
+00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:32.920 it's anywhere, like half of Emacs is anywhere
+00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:36.880 remote. So it's almost the same.
+00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:40.200 [Speaker 1]: Yeah. Well, I suppose at this point,
-I don't know if that's what you mean, +00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:41.520 +I don't know if that's what you mean.
+00:25:41.520 --> 00:25:45.020 Org Mode is probably what attracts people to
+00:25:45.020 --> 00:25:47.040 Emacs in the first place.
+00:25:47.040 --> 00:25:51.040 Like, I suppose Org Roam is the,
+00:25:51.260 --> 00:25:54.600 maybe the biggest 1 for people even outside
+00:25:54.600 --> 00:25:58.080 of computer science. I use Org.ROM
-for everything. I think the maintainer or +00:25:58.280 --> 00:26:02.760 +for everything. But there are... + +00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:05.840 +I mean, the thresholds...
-maybe the creator of Org.MODE +00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:07.900 +I think that the maintainer or maybe the
-has claimed and said for many years that Org +00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:10.520 +creator of Org.MODE has claimed and said for
-Mode itself doesn't actually necessarily need +00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:13.140 +many years that Org Mode itself doesn't
-Emacs. You can have it as a completely +00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:14.680 +actually necessarily need Emacs.
-separate application as well. +00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.360 +You can have it as a completely separate
-But for a number of reasons, +00:26:17.360 --> 00:26:19.740 +application as well. But I,
+00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:21.040 +for a number of reasons, + +00:26:21.040 --> 00:26:23.440 I don't like that. I really like the idea to
+00:26:28.434 --> 00:26:30.620 [Speaker 2]: why- The current strategy is that It has to
+00:26:30.620 --> 00:26:33.580 be Emacs because the configurability is 1 of
+00:26:33.580 --> 00:26:35.140 the strong points anyway.
+00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:35.820 [Speaker 1]: have it inside Emacs. The reason That's true.
+00:26:35.820 --> 00:26:37.620 [Speaker 2]: You cannot make a separate application.
-[Speaker 1]: No, that's true. I was going to say that. +00:26:37.840 --> 00:26:38.080 +No, + +00:26:38.080 --> 00:26:39.800 +[Speaker 1]: that's true. I was going to say that.
+00:26:39.800 --> 00:26:41.500 The thing is you use the flexibility.
+00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.220 Plus, you also use the,
+00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.080 I don't know if that's the right word,
+00:26:46.080 --> 00:26:48.760 but you use there's something about the free
+00:26:48.760 --> 00:26:52.600 ideology of Emacs that is what attracted me
+00:26:52.600 --> 00:26:56.260 to it in the first place when I was younger
+00:26:56.460 --> 00:27:00.290 and that I find even more important now.
+00:27:00.765 --> 00:27:03.520 So what they say the community aspect,
+00:27:06.220 --> 00:27:08.800 the reason, the main reason why Python is so
+00:27:08.800 --> 00:27:13.100 big today, really. So yeah.
+00:27:15.060 --> 00:27:17.860 [Speaker 2]: But in terms of going out of Emacs,
+00:27:17.860 --> 00:27:21.300 it's org syntax that is supposed to be like
+00:27:21.820 --> 00:27:23.260 breaking out of Emacs.
-Yeah. So like there's a plan to lay out the +00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.860 +So like there's a plan to lay out the actual
-actual standard document so that you can +00:27:28.860 --> 00:27:31.420 +standard document so that you can register
-register the format officially. +00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:32.540 +the format officially.
-[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think I've heard that too. +00:27:23.860 --> 00:27:34.760 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah. Yeah, I think I've heard that too.
+00:27:34.760 --> 00:27:36.560 I've not followed up on it much.
+00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.320 I don't know what the,
+00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:41.260 I mean, that probably would,
-it would very likely, if you do that, +00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:43.040 +it would strength, very likely,
-it would at least for a short time, +00:27:43.040 --> 00:27:45.100 +if you do that, it would at least for a short
-strengthen org mode and weaken emacs. +00:27:45.100 --> 00:27:47.660 +time, strengthen org mode and weaken emacs.
+00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:50.880 I don't know what other examples,
+00:27:51.580 --> 00:27:54.660 if there are other examples of applications
+00:27:55.120 --> 00:27:57.840 pulled out of IDEs like that.
+00:27:57.840 --> 00:27:59.480 I'm not aware of any others.
+00:28:00.300 --> 00:28:02.680 [Speaker 2]: Actually, people are trying to make
-three-seater drama, people are trying to make +00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:04.920 +three-seater drama. People are trying to make
+00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:06.240 like some external parsers,
+00:28:06.460 --> 00:28:10.320 a lot of them. And a lot of stuff is done on
-mobile part, like Android, +00:28:10.320 --> 00:28:12.940 +mobile part. I can draw it to iOS,
-iOS, especially recently. +00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:17.780 +especially recently. So things that are Emacs
-So things that are Emacs independent are +00:28:17.780 --> 00:28:19.780 +independent are demanded.
+00:28:20.660 --> 00:28:23.040 [Speaker 1]: Okay, yeah. I have no doubt that there is a
-[Speaker 2]: demanded. Especially in the environment, +00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:26.620 +[Speaker 2]: Especially in the environment,
+00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:28.040 like every time.
+00:28:23.040 --> 00:28:30.680 [Speaker 1]: demand. Yeah. I mean, I didn't get into that
+00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:35.020 very much. I have some of my students have 0
+00:28:35.020 --> 00:28:36.900 affinity with computers.
+00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:39.900 They really don't know their way around their
+00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:44.320 computers at all. And so for them,
+00:28:46.860 --> 00:28:51.440 It is quite important to learn how to find
+00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:56.520 your way around Emacs because it's like a
+00:28:56.520 --> 00:28:57.820 little operating system,
+00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.300 but it's not. It's an operating system
+00:29:00.300 --> 00:29:03.960 without much of the obscurity.
+00:29:05.080 --> 00:29:07.960 And the alternative to that would be to
+00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:10.520 simply let them work only on the command
+00:29:10.520 --> 00:29:12.480 line, which is another possibility.
+00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:16.160 But, you know, there of course you are
+00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:20.540 limited with regard to if you want to swap
+00:29:20.540 --> 00:29:23.500 languages. So for example,
+00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:26.000 quite often I find myself in the situation I
+00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.780 teach data science in R and Python and in
+00:29:28.780 --> 00:29:31.520 Emacs org mode I can demonstrate both of
+00:29:31.520 --> 00:29:35.100 these side by side in the same file.
+00:29:35.280 --> 00:29:38.700 And that's a great advantage.
+00:29:39.800 --> 00:29:42.540 Not to overburden the students when they are
+00:29:43.060 --> 00:29:45.100 at the beginning with things that you don't
+00:29:45.100 --> 00:29:47.620 want them to necessarily learn about.
+00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:51.000 And plus the thing what I like as a graduate
+00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:54.440 student when I stepped onto Emacs was that it
+00:29:54.440 --> 00:30:00.140 was infinite possibilities to lose myself in
+00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:03.060 Emacs and you know go on and learn more stuff
+00:30:03.060 --> 00:30:06.680 about it. But it's such a long time ago that
+00:30:07.300 --> 00:30:10.360 I barely dare to mention it anymore.
+00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:12.880 [Speaker 2]: For command line, actually,
+00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:17.080 it's since the Jupyter notebooks and that
+00:30:17.080 --> 00:30:19.400 Google thing they are running.
+00:30:20.820 --> 00:30:23.820 It's getting so popular that it's clear that
+00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:26.760 command line is just losing in popularity in
+00:30:28.580 --> 00:30:31.920 [Speaker 1]: well, yes and no. I mean,
+00:30:26.760 --> 00:30:33.360 [Speaker 2]: this. Yeah, of course,
+00:30:36.100 --> 00:30:38.400 Not the usage. People are still using it,
obviously.
+00:30:39.520 --> 00:30:41.020 [Speaker 1]: I mean, in Google Colab,
+00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:43.620 only the paid version allows you to go to the
+00:30:43.620 --> 00:30:45.460 terminal and use the command line.
+00:30:46.620 --> 00:30:48.580 But of course, the traction,
+00:30:48.580 --> 00:30:50.140 and I think that's kind of interesting,
+00:30:50.660 --> 00:30:54.680 1 of the reasons why IPython or any of the
+00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:56.960 Jupyter notebooks are so cool is because you
+00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:59.940 can use a lot of shell commands from the
+00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:05.080 IPython shell. There's a whole bunch of magic
+00:31:05.080 --> 00:31:07.000 commands which are quite powerful.
-The 1 that comes to mind is a time, +00:31:07.040 --> 00:31:10.020 +I mean the the 1 that comes to mind is time.
-the time command, for example, +00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:12.940 +The time command for example you know gives
-you know, it gives you a really nice, +00:31:12.940 --> 00:31:15.720 +you a really nice performance quick
-performance, quick performance check. +00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:17.660 +performance check. There's a bunch of
-There's a bunch of different, +00:31:17.660 --> 00:31:19.780 +different, I think probably close to a
-I think probably close to a hundred magic +00:31:19.780 --> 00:31:22.340 +hundred magic commands that you can use in
-commands that you can use in Jupyter. +00:31:22.340 --> 00:31:25.600 +Jupyter. But I don't know JupyterLab too
-But I don't know JupyterLab too well, +00:31:25.600 --> 00:31:28.840 +well, but I noticed that the companies that
-but I noticed that the companies that do +00:31:28.840 --> 00:31:31.080 +do online training, And they are usually the
-online training, And they are usually the -
+00:31:31.080 --> 00:31:34.920 ones that are closest to what beginners want,
+00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:36.100 especially in business.
-And what those companies do is they take +00:31:36.280 --> 00:31:38.220 +And what those companies do is they,
-JupiterLab and turn it into a presentation of +00:31:38.560 --> 00:31:41.720 +you know, they take, they take JupyterLab and
-their own. Another 1 is Notable, +00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:43.740 +turn it into a presentation of their own.
-notable.io. That's another 1. +00:31:43.740 --> 00:31:45.320 +Another 1 is Notable, notable.io.
-They took JupyterLab and turned it into +00:31:46.840 --> 00:31:49.900 +That's another 1. They took JupyterLab and
-something commercial. It's boosted up a +00:31:49.900 --> 00:31:51.320 +turned it into something commercial.
-little bit. And so the shell inside the +00:31:51.340 --> 00:31:52.920 +It's boosted up a little bit.
-JupyterLab has some of the most more +00:31:55.840 --> 00:32:00.480 +And so the shell inside the JupyterLab has
-important shell properties. +00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:03.120 +some of the most more important shell
-And so people still use the command line +00:32:03.120 --> 00:32:05.440 +properties. And so people still use the
-without knowing that they use the command +00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.080 +command line without knowing that they use
-line. But I also like doing, +00:32:07.080 --> 00:32:13.100 +the command line. But I also like doing,
+00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.300 how do I use org-roam?
+00:32:19.360 --> 00:32:22.020 Well, I use it, I do not have not used it
+00:32:22.020 --> 00:32:23.000 with the students yet,
+00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.020 only the best students have sort of seen me
+00:32:25.020 --> 00:32:29.780 use it and copied it. But I use it probably
+00:32:29.780 --> 00:32:32.000 in a very naive, trivial way.
+00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:33.620 I can't say that I am,
+00:32:34.300 --> 00:32:36.960 that I have a very sophisticated use.
+00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:39.640 I basically, I like the fact that,
+00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:43.100 I mean, it's built on the original concept of
+00:32:43.100 --> 00:32:44.540 the, with the German word,
+00:32:44.540 --> 00:32:48.280 Zettelkasten, right? Which is that you do not
+00:32:48.280 --> 00:32:50.940 have to think about a taxonomy because as you
+00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:53.800 move along, your taxonomy changes all the
+00:32:53.800 --> 00:32:55.580 time. You know, what you think is important
+00:32:55.580 --> 00:32:57.320 at the beginning, your root node,
+00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:58.940 as you go along, you realize,
+00:32:58.940 --> 00:33:00.680 oh, that's not the root node at all.
-There's a higher level and a higher level and +00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:02.640 +There's a higher level and a higher level.
-some of the lower levels aren't at the lower +00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:04.740 +And some of the lower levels are at the lower
-level, they're actually at the higher level. +00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:06.300 +level, actually the higher level.
+00:33:06.320 --> 00:33:10.460 So you're beginning to create hierarchies
+00:33:10.760 --> 00:33:14.340 that are out of date as soon as you create
+00:33:14.340 --> 00:33:16.360 the hierarchy. So what is the idea of the
+00:33:16.360 --> 00:33:18.480 tittle custom is that anything that comes to
+00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.100 your mind you can throw in the custom the box
+00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:26.580 it literally means Box of notes and That's
+00:33:26.580 --> 00:33:27.740 what I appreciate about it.
+00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:32.920 So I create a I create a note pretty much for
+00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:35.780 anything I do, but I've only used it for
+00:33:35.860 --> 00:33:38.160 about a year and a half or so,
+00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:39.740 or grown, maybe a year.
+00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.700 So I can see that I'm coming up against the
+00:33:43.700 --> 00:33:46.980 Zettelkasten or note box problems,
+00:33:47.120 --> 00:33:50.860 which is that I've got so many notes now that
+00:33:50.860 --> 00:33:52.960 unless I have clever aliases,
+00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:56.680 there is a chance that I might forget that I
-[Speaker 2]: That's why you need meta-notes. +00:33:58.820 --> 00:34:00.400 +[Speaker 2]: That's why you need meta notes.
+00:33:56.680 --> 00:34:01.600 [Speaker 1]: have a note. So I need a- Yes,
+00:34:02.780 --> 00:34:04.920 [Speaker 2]: In other words, a summarization is important,
+00:34:04.940 --> 00:34:06.800 no matter what system you use.
+00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:09.739 [Speaker 1]: yes. But what I'm trying to say is that's a
+00:34:09.739 --> 00:34:11.260 different approach than hierarchies,
+00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:13.620 right? It's the same, it's the same,
+00:34:13.620 --> 00:34:15.960 it's the same principle as a relational
+00:34:16.080 --> 00:34:18.719 database versus a hierarchical database.
-Same thing. So, yeah, I've not used that. +00:34:19.120 --> 00:34:23.360 +Same thing. So, yeah, and I've not used that.
+00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:25.400 I've not really used, actually I have cut
+00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:27.020 meta notes, of course I do.
+00:34:27.100 --> 00:34:29.000 So notes that point to other notes.
+00:34:29.487 --> 00:34:34.924 Yes, of course. I use those.
-I have forgotten that. -
+00:34:35.412 --> 00:34:38.800 I have not taught that part to the students
+00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:42.860 because I do project work with the students,
+00:34:45.040 --> 00:34:46.320 but there's only so much time.
+00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.219 I'm already, I mean, already,
+00:34:48.340 --> 00:34:51.000 I don't think there's any class that where I
+00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:55.860 am able to use more than 30% of my material.
+00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:57.620 And the reason is that when the students come
+00:34:57.620 --> 00:34:59.220 to class, which is I pointed out in the
+00:34:59.220 --> 00:35:01.100 video, they know so little.
+00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:03.720 And most of the students,
+00:35:03.720 --> 00:35:04.960 at least in liberal arts,
+00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:10.280 spend just too little time outside of class,
+00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:11.600 getting there, you know,
+00:35:11.600 --> 00:35:13.040 drilling down into the,
+00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:14.640 into the, into the infrastructure,
+00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:17.060 into the work. Only, only the best students
+00:35:17.060 --> 00:35:19.320 do that. The ones that really catch fire.
+00:35:20.080 --> 00:35:22.280 [Speaker 2]: Don't you have something like a course
+00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:23.760 project at the end?
+00:35:24.140 --> 00:35:25.760 [Speaker 1]: Yes, I have course, not at the end.
+00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:27.720 I use Scrum. Maybe I shouldn't,
+00:35:27.720 --> 00:35:29.640 but I've used Scrum for many years.
+00:35:30.040 --> 00:35:32.600 So I have course projects that start at the
+00:35:32.600 --> 00:35:35.280 beginning and they do sprint reviews every 3
+00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:40.640 or 4 weeks. So term end projects I find
+00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:43.080 completely useless because the students do
+00:35:43.080 --> 00:35:45.060 the work at the very end of the term.
-[Speaker 2]: By term end I mean they don't start at the +00:35:46.220 --> 00:35:49.600 +[Speaker 2]: no, by determined I mean they don't start at
-end, they just report at the end. +00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:51.880 +the end, they just report at the end.
-[Speaker 1]: I use the IMRAD, I use the IMRAD method. +00:35:45.060 --> 00:35:52.960 +[Speaker 1]: And so I... Oh I use the IMRAD,
+00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:54.300 +I use the IMRAD method. + +00:35:54.340 --> 00:35:58.160 So I use IMRAD, basically IMRAD plus,
+00:35:58.700 --> 00:36:00.300 plus Scrum, right? So,
+00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:02.220 So the first sprint review is introductory,
+00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:03.480 the research proposal,
+00:36:03.540 --> 00:36:05.040 the second 1 is about methodology,
+00:36:05.060 --> 00:36:06.360 the third 1 about results,
+00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:08.040 and the last 1 is their final presentation.
+00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:11.100 And so that's the way I manage the projects,
+00:36:11.160 --> 00:36:16.040 but that's about as much as I can do with
+00:36:16.040 --> 00:36:17.640 them. It's a good idea.
+00:36:17.640 --> 00:36:19.780 I hadn't even thought about using Org-ROM
+00:36:19.900 --> 00:36:22.760 with them, but to teach them that might be a
+00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:24.180 good idea, actually.
+00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.220 [Speaker 2]: Well, for Org-ROM, actually,
+00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:32.360 what I found useful during my graduate is for
+00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:34.740 literature review. Yes.
+00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.360 The other part of our program that is not
-about your like, noting down your thoughts, +00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.580 +about your like noting down your thoughts is
-is about writing about literature notes. +00:36:40.580 --> 00:36:42.900 +about writing about literature notes.
-[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that's a good idea, +00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:45.480 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that's a good idea actually.
-actually. And of course, +00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:46.320 +And of course, I mean,
-I mean, there's more stuff that they should +00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:48.180 +there's more stuff that they should learn,
-learn, you know, like another 1, +00:36:48.180 --> 00:36:50.140 +you know, like another 1,
+00:36:50.140 --> 00:36:51.780 since you mentioned literature,
+00:36:52.420 --> 00:36:54.640 you know, latex and Bibtech is another
+00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:57.840 obvious extension of that.
+00:36:58.780 --> 00:37:01.120 But that is actually a good idea because the
+00:37:01.120 --> 00:37:03.080 literature is what they have the hardest time
+00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:06.980 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, like when you need to read like 50
papers.
+00:37:03.080 --> 00:37:12.480 [Speaker 1]: with. Last term, since you mentioned that,
+00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:16.220 I had a really nice experience because 1 of
+00:37:16.220 --> 00:37:18.300 our librarians, our digital librarian,
+00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:19.920 came along and talked to the students,
+00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:21.580 and he taught me about a tool called
+00:37:21.580 --> 00:37:23.540 litmap.com, which is basically,
+00:37:24.140 --> 00:37:25.420 I don't know how it's implemented,
+00:37:25.460 --> 00:37:27.180 but it's basically a graph,
+00:37:28.140 --> 00:37:31.620 a graph representation of papers organized by
+00:37:31.620 --> 00:37:35.580 citation. It's very, very cool.
+00:37:35.900 --> 00:37:38.480 And the students who used to only find,
+00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:41.080 I don't know, 1 paper and otherwise,
+00:37:41.180 --> 00:37:44.880 of course, 15 YouTube videos and 100 blogs,
+00:37:45.380 --> 00:37:49.360 suddenly started finding and reading
+00:37:49.540 --> 00:37:52.120 scientific papers. It was only because of
+00:37:52.120 --> 00:37:54.900 this presentation. So you should take the,
+00:37:55.640 --> 00:37:57.580 I think, I hope that is the right,
+00:37:58.320 --> 00:37:59.560 that's the right mode,
+00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.380 litmaps. Okay, it's not litmap,
+00:38:02.380 --> 00:38:05.640 it's called Litmaps. I'm gonna give you an
+00:38:05.640 --> 00:38:09.000 example. I don't know if I can share this,
+00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:10.240 if you can look at that.
+00:38:10.240 --> 00:38:13.640 But basically you create a,
+00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:16.580 1 can use 1 of your papers as a seed,
+00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:18.840 and then it will create a graph,
+00:38:19.660 --> 00:38:21.760 graph representation of it for you.
+00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:25.220 And this is a powerful tool in itself.
+00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.600 But what I'm saying is that the students
+00:38:27.620 --> 00:38:30.900 suddenly, their use of literature and that
+00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:32.560 citation goes to the roof.
+00:38:33.080 --> 00:38:35.680 And I've been waiting for that for probably
+00:38:36.140 --> 00:38:38.300 15 years since I've started teaching.
-So it's crazy. That's really cool. +00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:43.420 +It's crazy. That's really cool.
-[Speaker 2]: So here is the same tool, +00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:47.720 +[Speaker 2]: Here is the same tool,
+00:38:47.720 --> 00:38:49.400 it's called connected papers.
+00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:53.540 It's based on the open source citation data.
+00:38:54.140 --> 00:38:56.340 [Speaker 1]: Yeah, I know that as well,
+00:38:56.500 --> 00:38:57.180 I think.
+00:39:00.060 --> 00:39:01.560 [Speaker 2]: It's actually very useful when you just start
-learning the topic, it's like you find 1 +00:39:01.560 --> 00:39:03.960 +learning the topic. It's like you find 1
-paper, then you look into the connections, +00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:05.800 +paper, then you look into the connections.
-you can quickly narrow down to the most +00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:08.260 +You can quickly narrow down to the most
-cited, the core papers on the topic. +00:39:08.260 --> 00:39:09.500 +cited, the core papers.
-[Speaker 1]: Of course, and that is exactly their +00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:12.500 +[Speaker 1]: Of course. And that is exactly their
+00:39:12.500 --> 00:39:14.800 situation, you know, and they're always at
+00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:16.740 the beginning. As you go on,
+00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:18.680 you develop different ways,
+00:39:18.680 --> 00:39:20.140 but for these complete beginners,
+00:39:20.200 --> 00:39:22.680 that's a good idea. Thank you so much for
-[Speaker 0]: anything else? +00:39:22.680 --> 00:39:30.520 +that. Okay, guys, anything else?
-[Speaker 1]: that. Okay, guys, I've enjoyed the +00:39:31.240 --> 00:39:32.440 +I've enjoyed the conversation,
-conversation, so you should definitely, +00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:33.960 +so you should definitely,
+00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:37.940 I'm going to take some of these things away.
+00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:42.340 Thank you so much for that.
+00:39:42.340 --> 00:39:45.740 Have you done, Yanta, have you done org mode
+00:39:46.300 --> 00:39:48.200 documentations yourself on WOC?
+00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:52.120 Or do you have a sort of a favorite 1?
+00:39:52.120 --> 00:39:53.600 I mean, I often on walk,
+00:39:53.600 --> 00:39:56.740 I often use the documentation for code
+00:39:56.740 --> 00:39:59.620 blocks. I used to when I started doing that
+00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:02.800 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, because it's only on work.
+00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:04.260 It's not part of the manual.
+00:39:59.620 --> 00:40:05.280 [Speaker 1]: for the first time. Yeah,
+00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.440 yeah. And so I've used that a lot.
+00:40:07.780 --> 00:40:09.560 [Speaker 2]: Have I done? Not really,
+00:40:09.720 --> 00:40:11.460 mostly fixing the errors.
-Okay. Yeah, I think that's a really good +00:40:12.260 --> 00:40:12.760 +Okay.
-idea. +00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:16.100 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's a really good idea.
-[Speaker 1]: All right. Well, thank you very much. +00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:19.780 +All right. Well, thank you very much.
+00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:22.360 And it's great to be at this conference.
+00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:24.440 I think I'm going to get on.
+00:40:27.660 --> 00:40:29.240 [Speaker 2]: Thanks for answering all the questions.
+00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:32.560 And for the talk, It was quite interesting to
+00:40:32.560 --> 00:40:35.660 see our modules in actual teaching.
+00:40:36.200 --> 00:40:38.600 [Speaker 1]: Yes, thank you. And I got to thank Daniel
+00:40:38.600 --> 00:40:40.840 German from Canada, the 1 of,
+00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:43.660 I had him on 1 of the slides because he,
+00:40:43.660 --> 00:40:45.380 he inspired me to do that.
+00:40:45.380 --> 00:40:47.540 And, and I wouldn't be at the conference if I
+00:40:47.540 --> 00:40:49.480 hadn't contacted him and said oh here's my
+00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:50.980 paper and he said oh you should come to the
+00:40:50.980 --> 00:40:52.680 conference and so that's why I came to the
+00:40:52.680 --> 00:40:58.480 conference. Thank you very much and as they
+00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:04.100 say keep in touch. You're welcome.
+00:41:04.100 --> 00:41:05.060 Okay bye-bye. You're welcome.
+00:41:05.060 --> 00:41:15.820 Okay, bye-bye. Take a copy of the chat before
+00:41:15.820 --> 00:41:22.360 you go, if you can. Happy weekend to just bye
bye.
-[Speaker 2]: You are currently the only person in this +00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:36.840 +[Speaker 0]: You are currently the only person in this
conference. + +00:42:00.060 --> 00:42:00.560 +[Speaker 1]: You -- cgit v1.2.3