From f030bf17d1673cc7831fcbae36181c8238c159fe Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Sacha Chua Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 10:17:42 -0500 Subject: Add transcript --- 2020/info/06.md | 185 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 185 insertions(+) (limited to '2020/info') diff --git a/2020/info/06.md b/2020/info/06.md index 7c187a0f..b9cc0a27 100644 --- a/2020/info/06.md +++ b/2020/info/06.md @@ -52,3 +52,188 @@ important problem space in free software, FWIW. - LISP wasn't on the list. - Disagreement is not the barrier. - Emacs is threatening as something that addresses many different needs/use-cases. + + +# Transcript + +Following is a somewhat hasty self-transcription of my talk. Please +don't hesitate to [mailto:corwin@bru.st](ask for clarification) or to +add any clarifications you feel helpful back into the EmacsConf wiki. + + There is a visual gimmick underlaying the initial remarks. We are + looking at the first (first-slide ("Welcome") showing how the org + markdown looks on other editors, including cygwin emacs, Notepad++, + Sublime, VS Code, and cygwin vim. As each is closed we see the next, + until we reveal GUI Emacs running org-mode in a full-both frame. + +My name is Corwin Brust and I will be talking about getting started +with Emacs Today. I have been an Emacs user for a long time- + +First of all thanks and a huge welcome to the conference..(_15s_) + +On behalf of and back to the other organizers. It has been cool to +have a peek backstage. + +So. I've used a lot of different editors in my time. That's about 25 +years as a professional software engineer. And most of that +time I've been using Emacs. (~54s_) + +I'll talk a little bit in a minute (if I can ever find my slides) +about how I got into Emacs, but if you've used Emacs and a lot of +other editors for a long time, something that you notice right away is +that you get good with it in a way that stays meaningful. You learn +new things, those things stick with you. You learn how to- how to +make it do new tricks and then keep doing those tricks. (~1m26s_) + +I want to mention this conference isn't about (whoops: "this talk") +how to adjust your configuration specifically. I don't have a bunch +of good code samples in here. There are a bunch of other great talks, +especially Andrew's that I think may be aimed more at that "hey, I'm +just getting started with Emacs what are some things to try to make it +more comfortable for me starting?" [subject/audience? cezb]. (~2m07s_) + +This is about how to think about the problem space more. (_2m10s_) + +Hopefully a good way to warm up as we start thinking about some of the +lightning talks later on. (I'm going to bring up my IRC buffer +[offscreen] in case I run into time- I didn't get my stopwatch started +for this one.) (_2m25s_) + +So, alright: let's dive in. (_2m30s_) + +We assume that we want to install packages, and maybe configure some +features. This is particularly from the perspective of where we're +working with a bunch of others on a team and we want to get something +done. (_2m42s_) + +Some of us probably have mature Emacs workflows, others may be +installing it for the first time. (_2m50s_) + +So the first questions is, you know- in that context: what's the value +proposition? Why should I mess with my machine, my mature Emacs +configuration, impose my way of thinking and ideas over the way +somebody else is learning Emacs? (_3m09m_) + +It can be [laugh] I'm off my slides here a little bit.. (_3m13s_) + +It can be a little tricky to learn Emacs. One thing that helps us a +lot is if people that we are working with can tell us, kinda, +keystroke-for-keystroke at times what to do and explain what +everything is doing. (_3m30s_) + +And using the same packages as others can really help us working +together on a project. (_3m36s_) + +Speaking from my personal experience, it took me decades to get to the +point where I was excited to program in Emacs Lisp. (_3m26s_) + +I've programed in a lot of programming languages, but Lisp wasn't on +my list. I looked at my config, that I was copy-pasting around from +generation after generation of .emacs file or re-crafting it by hand +and from Internet searches, to get things that I needed when I would +quickly go install Emacs to start some new job or contract, and +quickly get though that work-flow that caused me to go install the +program. (_4m15s_) + +You know, just simple little one-liners that got committed to memory +over decades eventually just lead [me] to a sort of "hey, what's going +on here". (_4m27s_) + +And I credit my good friend Jeff Goff who died earlier in 2020 for my +lifelong love of Emacs. Perhaps Erik and I will talk a little more +about that at another talk we have scheduled but Jeff was a huge +influence on us in a number of ways and a huge contributer to the Raku +programming language which is very cool. (_4m52s_) + +So, understanding how to make a good decision about splitting up +configuration in a way to share it with people with really different +uses of Emacs. That's actually a complicated topic, and I want to off +and stare at it for a second: (_5m11s_) + +I think Emacs is about people, so that means it is about community. +And community means we're going to invite disagreement. In fact that +disagreement isn't necessarily a road-block to our project, in fact +that some of the work our project can invite us to do is to get closer +to each other by inviting those disagreements, by learning from people +of different styles, and from how they argue, and thinking about why +they have that perspective and what technical benefits that perhaps +radical point of view might carry away. Some people are really +aggressive arguers others are very passive and really couch their +ideas in distancing terms, "well probably this is a good idea" or +"please double check me". Those don't always indicate how certain a +person is. Because we're different. We have different ways of +communicating ideas such as certainty or excitement. (_6m23s_) + +When we thinking about a bunch of really diverse programmers +approaching Emacs probably one of our first really big challenges is +just to pick what we're going to go after. There are a number of +existing kit installs and things like this. My argument is that you +can get pretty far just trading files around. And maybe the more +value conversation to have is making the hard decisions, e.g. "should +we have vertical completion", should that be out of the box and those +that want the traditional splayed-out over a sing line such as the +mode line will have to add a line to their configuration. (_7m26s) + +The way to get there? + +How do we find out what works? + +We don't want to slow down the people who are super productive with +Emacs, and ask them to completely break their workflows to make it +easier for new folks, at the same time we do want to make sure those +new people. (_7m42s_) + +At the same time, we do want to make sure those new people arre +excited by Emacs and not turned off by having to learn the entire +jungle of Emacs history in the form of it's unique technical stylings +in terms of frames, buffers, and other unique Emacs viewpoints on +interface concepts, especially. (_8m15s_) + +The encouragement here is to keep using the project team as a +crucible. Rather than following the defaults of, um, finding the +simplest customizations that generally work, what if we tried to look +for fairly specific configuration that we'll expect basically all of +our developers to be using, at least when the submit bug +reports. (_8m48s_) + +In particular with this, I think that degree of experimentation can +drive back into the Emacs development process. In the development +mailing list.. [] In the context of Emacs development as a greater +entity, we see this struggle. We have the sense that some things can +"never" be change. I think one thing that can help us get there is +evidence that says "hey, my 30-40 person team is using this set of +bindings and here is what we learned about new Emacs users coming in +and trying that". (10m) + +So let's just recap real quick: in theory Emacs works out of the +box. That means we are free to throw it all away and start over. +[trouble with slides, again] + +Our goal is to enable users- to unlock our computers, to do as much +with them as possible. My work of encouragement is experiment with it. +And think really specifically about how the development users may be +different from each other, as you are configuring the development +environment of emacs for developing on a project. + +That's my talk, etc, answer any questions.(_12m09s_) + +Do you use Emacs as a Community Building Tool? (_13m15s_) + +Do /i/ use Emacs a community building tool? Or *how* do I use Emacs as a +community building tool. [amin: "it doesn't say"] + +Yes, absolutely. I think Emacs is an ambassador to the gnu +tool-chain. in the fullness of time we will see an Emacs that will +make others, Android and iOS, dream. That's why that mock us and say +that Emacs is an operating system. It's because it could be, if cared +for it to be. It's quite a threatening product in terms of the number +of problem spaces it can address, how many types of users it can +satisfy. (_13m01s_) + +And the things that we can do to make it robust in those environments. +We're always thinking about the weak points but is Emacs a community +building tool? Heck yeah. (_13m13s_) + +[we agree that I'll write my answers to the remaining questions, I say +thanks more, and we're done. ps, I'll get to your question or +comments I can find a response to within the next week, I expect] -- cgit v1.2.3