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diff --git a/2024/talks/gypsum.md b/2024/talks/gypsum.md index a76afb02..c566357c 100644 --- a/2024/talks/gypsum.md +++ b/2024/talks/gypsum.md @@ -375,11 +375,13 @@ You may also like another talk by this speaker: - A: Plan is to keep up-to-date with new releases. So new GNU feature should be included with each release. But also intend to have support for pure Scheme features. -- Q: \<janneke\> If Emacs Lisp support for Guile was documented +- Q: If Emacs Lisp support for Guile was documented better, could you be nudged/convinced to (re)start using, and contributing to that? - A: Compatibility is the most important things. Documentation not sufficient to convince users to switch. + - IRC: Where do you think elisp documentation should be improved? I've always found the built in documentation to be excellent + - janneke is referring to Guile's ELisp support, I believe; sorry, i meant the documentation of guile's elisp backend - Q: Why is being able to interpret all of \`init.el\` an useful goal? Sure, there is a lot of code written in elisp - can we consider a translator like utility to convert elisp to scheme, once guile-emacs @@ -398,10 +400,10 @@ You may also like another talk by this speaker: communication via stdin/stdout; so you can reuse existing scheme libraries. Dynamic libraries not a goal. Rg/ripgrep probably the same with process communication. -- Q: \<xlarsx\`\> Why is it not feasible for the Emacs layer that interprets Emacs Lisp (the core in C) ot have a Scheme interpreter, instead of using Guile? - - A: \<gringo\> Guile is a scheme. Not sure what you mean. - - A: Check presentation later of Robin Templeton (\"Beguiling - Emacs: Guile-Emacs relaunched!\"): the attempt exists by +- Q: Why is it not feasible for the Emacs layer that interprets Emacs Lisp (the core in C) ot have a Scheme interpreter, instead of using Guile? + - A: Guile is a scheme. Not sure what you mean. + - A: Check presentation later of Robin Templeton ("Beguiling + Emacs: Guile-Emacs relaunched!"): the attempt exists by translating elisp to guile. - thank you @@ -409,20 +411,52 @@ You may also like another talk by this speaker: - - A: Cool name, but did not check if it is already used. Feel free to discuss by email. -- Q: \<gringo\> I'm curious to know how the hell guile-emacs deals with all of the dynamically scoped modules out there. Is there any effort to automatically modularize and namespace stuff? +- Q: I'm curious to know how the hell guile-emacs deals with all of the dynamically scoped modules out there. Is there any effort to automatically modularize and namespace stuff? ## Notes -- \<robin\> oo neat, i didn\'t know about that first bit of history -- \<janneke\> i\'ve heard rms say that scheme (guile) is just a nicer - lisp; but didn\'t know there were concrete talks/attempts to use - guile for emacs that early -- \<tusharhero\> Q: Not really a question, but how about Schemacs as a - name? -- \<janneke\> robin: yes, guile-elisp not being portable might be a - showstopper -- for ramin - +- oo neat, i didn't know about that first bit of history +- i've heard rms say that scheme (guile) is just a nicer + lisp; but didn't know there were concrete talks/attempts to use + guile for emacs that early +- robin: yes, guile-elisp not being portable might be a + showstopper for ramin +- I've heard good things about guile from guix people. Never really tried it out +- FWIW, I think there have been various attempts to make an Emacs clone in Common Lisp. I guess lem is currently the most active. https://github.com/lem-project/lem/ +- I like how he edited his slide mid-presentation. +- https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GuileEmacsHistory has some info on very efforts; i was surprised that there were so many (especially with old-school guile, eww ;)) +- joining for all the guiles and all the emacsen +- He's got a long way to go. +- of course there were, RMS had decreed that guile was the GNU scripting language and it was a bit embarrassing that it was so little-used... + - At least Guix uses it now. + - oh yes, guile 3 was a great step forward, and I do wonder how much of that was due to the impetus of its having real users :) +- if you're interested in guile emacs, be sure to check out robin's guile talk this afternoon +- nice, my silly https://gitlab.com/janneke/guimax also used guile-gi but this looks much more mature +- developed actively til 2014, but more recent work is on a branch so may not be as obvious... +- so...i guess that some basic documentation on elisp may be very helpful +- wbn if you could join efforts somehow + - there should definitely be some overlap between the projects +- I have 6500 interactive ones, according to Vertico... + - I got 8021 interactive ones ;) + - 7690 here + - 34557 callables \o/ +- working towards a similar goal approached from different directions + - however, working on guile's elisp backend may be a common ground +- ramin's probably talking about subrs, i.e. primitives not themselves implemented in elisp +- you mean providing modularization for elisp programs? or something else +- Being more specific, removing the need to namespace every single internal variable/procedure in an elisp module. Maybe that isn't a goal, but I wish it were + - yes, i have some ideas for adapting the CL package system for that. it'd have to be opt-in, maybe some tools for automated refactoring +- And... the part where we need more bandwidth for any core runtime efforts to be viable +- my-special-module--loop-variable-3 +- How can I get involved with this? if I want to contribute + - hang out in #guile-emacs and/or subscribe to the mailing lists https://guile-emacs.org/ +- an embryonic re-implementation by ramin of emacs in guile, with their own new elisp interpreter that should be r7rs compatible +- would love robin's guile-emacs and ramin's efforts to somehow share some of their efforts +- Robin's talk mentions developing a better elisp in Scheme. Why can't your project leverage it? +- guile-elisp is part of guile's compiler system (elisp -> tree-il -> cps -> bytecode), unless another scheme sets out to be guile-compatible in that respect it won't be portable at all +- To be fair, I've been screwing around with chicken, guile, and racket. I haven't found any 2 scheme implementations to be compatible, even within SRFI implementations + - Just the basic syntax and semantics, nothing else + - yeah, scheme's lack of portable libraries in practice motivated me to suggest something that's sure to piss everyone off; Javascript [[!inline pages="internal(2024/info/gypsum-after)" raw="yes"]] |