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diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-maxima--emacs-eev-and-maxima-now--eduardo-ochs--main.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-maxima--emacs-eev-and-maxima-now--eduardo-ochs--main.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8dc51906 --- /dev/null +++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-maxima--emacs-eev-and-maxima-now--eduardo-ochs--main.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,1888 @@ +WEBVTT +Kind: captions +Language: en-GB + +00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.000 +Hi! My name is Eduardo Ochs. I'm the author of + +00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:07.000 +an obscure package called eev and I + +00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:08.000 +think that it's better to start this + +00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:10.000 +presentation by the middle of the story - + +00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.000 +by this word here: Maxima. + +00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.000 +Maxima is a computer algebra system + +00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:17.000 +that has several interfaces. One + +00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.000 +of them is WxMaxima, that looks very + +00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:24.000 +modern and is very pretty, and it + +00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:26.000 +looks like this... + +00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.000 +it's a cell based interface. We can type + +00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.000 +an expression here and execute it... + +00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:35.000 +here's the result. + +00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.000 +But I don't like that interface + +00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:40.000 +because my memory is very bad, and I type + +00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.000 +very slowly and with lots of mistakes... + +00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:46.000 +so for me this ugly interface that + +00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:49.000 +I'm going to show now is much better - + +00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.000 +and here I'm going to show how I am teaching + +00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.000 +that ugly interface to beginners. + +00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:58.000 +If I type f8 on these three lines here + +00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:00.000 +it creates a Maxima running inside Emacs - + +00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:04.000 +I mean, using a terminal and running inside + +00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:06.000 +a shell buffer in Emacs... + +00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.000 +and if I type f8 on this other the lines here + +00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:15.000 +the `f8's send lines to Maxima, and, ta-daaa, + +00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:20.000 +this small program drew this. + +00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:23.000 +I live in Brazil and people in + +00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.000 +developed countries cannot imagine + +00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.000 +how are the beginners that we have here... + +00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:32.000 +in a sense Brazil is another planet. + +00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:35.000 +Let me explain why, and also let me + +00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.000 +explain why Maxima, why Emacs... because + +00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:39.000 +people always say "you should use + +00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.000 +programs that everyone finds intuitive, + +00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:43.000 +like VSCode"... + +00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:45.000 +well, I teach Calculus in a bad Campus + +00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:47.000 +of a good Federal University in Brazil. + +00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:50.000 +My university is called UFF, for + +00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:53.000 +Universidade Federal Fluminense. + +00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.000 +The main campus of UFF is in Niterói, + +00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:00.000 +that is a big city near Rio de Janeiro, + +00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.000 +and I work in a city called Rio das Ostras, + +00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:03.000 +that is is a small city 200 Kms away + +00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:07.000 +from Rio de Janeiro. + +00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.000 +I started working there in 2009. + +00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:13.000 +My campus gets very little funding - + +00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:16.000 +that's a long story that I don't have time + +00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:20.000 +to tell now - and we get the + +00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.000 +students that don't get enough marks in + +00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.000 +the admission process to go to better places. + +00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:30.000 +Also, my campus has two institutes - + +00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.000 +I call them The Institute of Humanities + +00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.000 +and The Institute of Inhumanities. + +00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.000 +Each of our institutes has a small building... + +00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:41.000 +the Humanities building has lots of plants and + +00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:46.000 +lots of graffittis - I call it the Good Building - + +00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:49.000 +and the Inhumanities building has lots + +00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.000 +of rules and prohibitions, and I call it the + +00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:51.000 +Evil Building. + +00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:56.000 +I heard that the Inhumanities building + +00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.000 +has a laboratory with computers, and that + +00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.000 +it doesn't have any machine that runs Linux... + +00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:05.000 +but the Inhumanities building is + +00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:07.000 +shrouded in mystery, and basically + +00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:09.000 +humans avoid it - only inhumans go there. + +00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.000 +I only discovered how much "another planet" + +00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.000 +Brazil is a few months ago. In May and June + +00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:18.000 +of this year the federal universities in Brazil + +00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:21.000 +paralyzed their activities in a nationwide + +00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.000 +strike for two months, and during the strike + +00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:28.000 +the humanity students occupied the + +00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.000 +Humanities Building and organized lots + +00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:31.000 +of activities there. + +00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:34.000 +They asked me if I could give some workshops + +00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.000 +and I offered two hands-on workshops + +00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:40.000 +on Free Software for beginners - + +00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:45.000 +basically on Emacs and eev, with + +00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:49.000 +tutorials with lots of "try this"s... + +00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:54.000 +and, as usual, the students of + +00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:56.000 +Computer Science and Engineering ignored + +00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.000 +the workshop completely, and didn't come... + +00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:01.000 +but some students of psychology and of + +00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:04.000 +Producão Cultural, which is basically + +00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:08.000 +techniques for producing cultural + +00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.000 +activities, came to workshop... and they LOVED + +00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:14.000 +the workshop - they found it FUN. + +00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.000 +And after the workshop I told the + +00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:19.000 +students that there are lots of things + +00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.000 +that, uh, "everyone knows and I don't", + +00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.000 +and I would like to learn them, + +00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.000 +but I find them too hard to learn by myself + +00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:29.000 +because I'm a dinosaur - I'm only used to + +00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.000 +interfaces that are very old, + +00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.000 +and that are not graphical... and one + +00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.000 +of the examples of the things that I + +00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.000 +would like to learn was Canva. + +00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:42.000 +And then the student of Produção Cultural + +00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.000 +taught me Canva in 10 minutes, + +00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:54.000 +AND THAT CHANGED MY LIFE. + +00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.000 +Anyway, again, I'm working in that place, + +00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:00.000 +Rio das Ostras, since 2009, + +00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.000 +and the Computer Science students + +00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.000 +here know lots of programs and languages + +00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:08.000 +that I would like to learn, but in all + +00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:11.000 +these 15 years the Computer Science + +00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:14.000 +students only helped me twice. + +00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.000 +It turns out that our Inhumanities + +00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:20.000 +students don't have a culture of sharing + +00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:26.000 +and helping - but our Humanities students do. + +00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.000 +Another detail about how much Brazil + +00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.000 +is another planet... + +00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.000 +well, I only discovered this very + +00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:38.000 +recently, too... my research is in Logic, + +00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.000 +I sometimes go to conferences, usually in + +00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.000 +Brazil, very rarely outside, and people + +00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.000 +here don't bring their laptops to the + +00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.000 +conferences - we don't have a culture + +00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:51.000 +of sitting together with friends + +00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:54.000 +or colleagues to learn with them how to + +00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.000 +use the programs that they use... + +00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:01.000 +for example, many of my friends + +00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:05.000 +are logicians, so they have to draw + +00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.000 +lots of diagrams, and I don't know how + +00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:13.000 +they use their programs to draw diagrams... + +00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.000 +I don't know how things are in + +00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:18.000 +universities with good computer labs but, + +00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:22.000 +anyway, consider these sentences + +00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:25.000 +sentences that sort of everybody says... + +00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:25.000 +"Everyone knows VSCode", + +00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:27.000 +"Everyone knows Jupiter Notebooks", + +00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:31.000 +"Everyone draws diagrams with Quiver"... + +00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.000 +Here these things are not true - + +00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.000 +and they are not relevant - + +00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.000 +here knowledge about programs does not + +00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:40.000 +propagate... and + +00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.000 +one of my goals in life is + +00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:45.000 +to become friends with some people who + +00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:47.000 +know how to use for example, code blocks + +00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.000 +in Org, and JavaScript, and learn some of + +00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:55.000 +their workflows... or, rather one of my + +00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:57.000 +goals is to become someone who deserves + +00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:02.000 +help. + +00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:05.000 +More on Maxima for students... + +00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:08.000 +remember: our inhumanities students + +00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.000 +don't have a culture of sharing and helping + +00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:13.000 +but our humanity students do... + +00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:16.000 +I've been telling my students - I teach + +00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.000 +Calculus 2 and 3 here -that they will learn + +00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:21.000 +much faster if they learn Maxima, + +00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.000 +and that people who learn Maxima can take + +00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.000 +an optional test and earn extra marks + +00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:31.000 +in the course, but if they behave + +00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:34.000 +as typical inhumanities students - + +00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:37.000 +I mean, not asking questions and + +00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:39.000 +not helping their colleagues - + +00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.000 +then I won't help help... + +00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.000 +Actually it's even worse. I've + +00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.000 +told my students that my documentation + +00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:50.000 +is not good enough yet and every + +00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:53.000 +question helps me a lot, so PLEASE ask + +00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:57.000 +questions, and I've bagged on my knees... + +00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:01.000 +and now I can treat students + +00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:02.000 +who don't ask questions as people who + +00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.000 +won't help someone that they know + +00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.000 +who is begging on his knees! + +00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.000 +Now let me explain another word of + +00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:15.000 +the title of this presentation. + +00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:17.000 +The title of this presentation is + +00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:17.000 +"Emacs, eev, and Maxima - Now!" + +00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:22.000 +The "Now!" in the title means: + +00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.000 +in less than one hour and even for people + +00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.000 +who have never seen a terminal in their lives. + +00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:32.000 +Well, my title is a slight exaggeration... + +00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.000 +it only took less than one hour + +00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:37.000 +for one person, who is a school kid + +00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.000 +from a small City in the North of Brazil, + +00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:42.000 +who didn't know anything about programming, + +00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.000 +but who was competing in the local + +00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:50.000 +Math Olympiads, so not a typical person... + +00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:53.000 +Now let me tell a story based on + +00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.000 +real events and based on a real student. + +00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:58.000 +The student said: "I have Linux on my + +00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:00.000 +laptop, can you help me to do blah1?" + +00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:04.000 +I answered: "Sure, do blah2 and blah3..." + +00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:10.000 +this was all by chat, I don't remember if + +00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:10.000 +by WhatsApp or by Telegram... + +00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:13.000 +then one week passes, and the student + +00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:16.000 +talks to me again, and the student says: + +00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:19.000 +"It doesn't work!", and I answer: + +00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:21.000 +"What happens when you do blah4 and blah5?" + +00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:28.000 +another week passes, then the student reappears, + +00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:29.000 +and he says: "It doesn't work!" + +00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:33.000 +and I answer: "Type blah6 and blah7 in + +00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:36.000 +the terminal, press ENTER, take a + +00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.000 +photo of your screen... remember, not a + +00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.000 +screenshot, it's a photo of your screen... + +00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:43.000 +and send it to me." Then the student + +00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.000 +disappears again, another week passes and + +00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:49.000 +the student reappears and says: + +00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:50.000 +"How do I open a terminal?" + +00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.000 +Well, then... + +00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.000 +PLONK. + +00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.000 +According to the Jargon file "plonk" is + +00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.000 +the sound of that a newbie makes as he + +00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.000 +falls to the bottom of a kill file. + +00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:03.000 +I prefer this simpler definition here... + +00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:06.000 +for me "plonk" is the sound + +00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.000 +that a person makes when he, or she, or they + +00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:15.000 +hits the bottom of my list of priorities. + +00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.000 +I've been using this slogan with my + +00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:22.000 +students - it sounds much better in + +00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:25.000 +Portuguese, sorry... "I am not a telepath, + +00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:27.000 +and for me it is 100 times harder to + +00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:29.000 +discover the doubts of people who don't + +00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:32.000 +talk to me than to discover the doubts of + +00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:38.000 +people who do talk to me. + +00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.000 +There's an interesting thing here in + +00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:47.000 +this presentation by Abelson and Sussman. + +00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:51.000 +Let me explain now this word of + +00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.000 +my title, "Emacs"... + +00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:56.000 +and the idea is that learning Emacs can + +00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.000 +mean many things, learning Lisp can mean + +00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.000 +many things, and in this presentation... + +00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.000 +oh no, one second... + +00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.000 +sorry, back. + +00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.000 +In this presentation they say... + +00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:16.000 +"anyone can learn Lisp in one day, + +00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.000 +except that if they already know Fortran, + +00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.000 +then it will take three days". + +00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.000 +And I would add: and if the person + +00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.000 +is starting with Doom Emacs then it would + +00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.000 +take take five years. + +00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:20.000 +Why? Because the person is using + +00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:32.000 +a different notion of Emacs, + +00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.000 +and a different notion of Lisp. + +00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.000 +The person is starting by spending five + +00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:41.000 +years learning how to configure Emacs, and + +00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.000 +the person is using Lisp as a very weird + +00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.000 +configuration language. + +00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.000 +Usually the people who start by Doom Emacs + +00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:51.000 +they start by configuring Emacs, + +00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:54.000 +and only then they learn things like + +00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:56.000 +defun, etc... + +00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.000 +and another slogan that I use a lot + +00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.000 +with my students is that there are + +00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.000 +many cases in which learning just the + +00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.000 +thing B takes 200 hours but learning + +00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:13.000 +A and then B takes just 20 hours. + +00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.000 +Here are some kinds of beginners + +00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:19.000 +that I do not want to help. + +00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:21.000 +First example: a person who says "I can't + +00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:24.000 +read that page - it has too many links". + +00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.000 +Second example: a person who says + +00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.000 +"I don't want to read anything and + +00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:31.000 +I don't want to learn anything, + +00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:32.000 +I want something that just works". + +00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:36.000 +And third example: "I don't want to + +00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.000 +look at examples, you need to summarize + +00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.000 +everything to me in one paragraph". + +00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.000 +There are more explanations on + +00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:47.000 +these kinds of beginners at my page + +00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.000 +about this presentation - here. + +00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:53.000 +And here is one kind of beginner + +00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:54.000 +that I really want to help. + +00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.000 +Beginners that are nerdy kids + +00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:00.000 +who are used to: + +00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:03.000 +reading materials that are too advanced for them, + +00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:05.000 +understanding only a few percent of what they read, + +00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:10.000 +remembering just a tiny fraction of what they read, + +00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:14.000 +going to back to these materials later, + +00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:19.000 +and taking notes about what they read... + +00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:22.000 +and who are also always interested in + +00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:25.000 +experimenting with new ways of taking notes, + +00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:28.000 +transcribing, summarizing and saving links + +00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:32.000 +to primary sources. + +00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.000 +I'd like to say something about how + +00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.000 +I've been plonking the paragraph people... + +00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.000 +who are the people who say: + +00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.000 +"I don't want to look at examples, + +00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:45.000 +you need to summarize everything to me + +00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:45.000 +in one paragraph". + +00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:48.000 +Well, I'm a mathematician... + +00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.000 +I work with lots of things + +00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.000 +that can only be summarized in a paragraph + +00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.000 +if we choose the level of who + +00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.000 +we are talking to... + +00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.000 +so we have many different + +00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:02.000 +one-paragraph summaries, + +00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.000 +one for each level... + +00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.000 +and in many cases this sentence, + +00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.000 +"you need to summarize it + +00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.000 +in one paragraph", is WRONG - + +00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.000 +the person means I want to learn a lot + +00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.000 +in 10 minutes - and this needs diagrams + +00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.000 +animations, AND EXAMPLES. + +00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.000 +This is an example of something + +00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:24.000 +in mathematics - in category Theory - + +00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.000 +I only understood after too many time - + +00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.000 +after zillions of years... + +00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:30.000 +It is called The Yoneda Lemma. + +00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.000 +This is the general case - + +00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:35.000 +this small thing here... + +00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:40.000 +but I only understood it after + +00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:45.000 +understanding many particular cases, and + +00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:49.000 +then organizing them in a way in which + +00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.000 +different figures had similar shapes... + +00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.000 +and the textual explanations + +00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.000 +for the Yoneda Lemma - the one paragraph + +00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.000 +explanations, or the many paragraph + +00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.000 +explanations - never helped the much... + +00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.000 +they contained formulas... + +00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:10.000 +in mathematics, but written linearly... + +00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.000 +that had too many symbols... + +00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.000 +and my mental buffer is very small... + +00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.000 +and I had to find several tricks to reduce + +00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.000 +the cognitive overload of all these ideas. + +00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:24.000 +For example, I had to name the symbols + +00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:29.000 +consecutively, like A, B, C, + +00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:31.000 +so there's a kind of a temporal order + +00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:34.000 +in which the symbols that appear first + +00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.000 +have initial letters... + +00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.000 +I had to find a way to put + +00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.000 +an archetypal case and the general case + +00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:43.000 +side to side - + +00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.000 +they have the same "shape"... + +00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:47.000 +I had to find good conventions + +00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.000 +for fonts and types... + +00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.000 +I had to choose good meanings + +00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.000 +for what it means... + +00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:57.000 +sorry, for what are vertical arrows, + +00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:01.000 +what are horizontal arrows, and so on... + +00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:06.000 +and what is "above without an arrow"... + +00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.000 +So, how much detail should we include + +00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.000 +in our technical explanations? + +00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.000 +Well there are many measures + +00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.000 +for cognitive (over)load... + +00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.000 +For example, I asked many technical questions + +00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:21.000 +on the Maxima mailing list + +00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.000 +that got answers that included + +00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:27.000 +snippets and names of of Lisp functions... + +00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.000 +in Common Lisp, because Maxima is written + +00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.000 +in Common Lisp... and I liked that... + +00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.000 +and I asked some some technical questions + +00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:35.000 +on the Org mailing list + +00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:37.000 +and on the Hyperbole mailing list, + +00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.000 +and usually I got answers + +00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.000 +that avoided the technical details... + +00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.000 +note that I chose the term "avoided" + +00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.000 +to denote frustration... + +00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:50.000 +by the way, if one of my students panics + +00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:54.000 +on this part here... + +00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.000 +"After setting the user and password + +00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:57.000 +you will get a Unix prompt"... + +00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.000 +if the student panics on this + +00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:05.000 +and does not know what to ask + +00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:07.000 +and just gives up, then... + +00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.000 +plonk. + +00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:13.000 +So... I was talking a lot about + +00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.000 +plonking people... + +00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:16.000 +What's left after plonking many people? + +00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:19.000 +Well, several kinds of beginners + +00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.000 +that I want to interact with... + +00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:26.000 +note that "kinds" is plural... + +00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:30.000 +Also, I get a definition for the term + +00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.000 +"beginners"... think on books... + +00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:37.000 +technical books, that start with + +00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:38.000 +"This book is written for the persons + +00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.000 +of the types such and such"... + +00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.000 +Maybe several definitions + +00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:47.000 +for the term "beginners"... + +00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.000 +also, a metric that lets me choose between + +00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.000 +options A, B and C when I'm trying to + +00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.000 +write material for my beginners... + +00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:00.000 +for example, here, again... + +00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.000 +should I explain what is a Unix prompt? + +00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:07.000 +No!!! + +00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:09.000 +Why "no"? + +00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.000 +Well, let me use another example. + +00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:16.000 +This one I took from a discussion on IRC... + +00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.000 +we were helping a certain beginner + +00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.000 +that was there... + +00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.000 +and one person suggested to the beginner + +00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.000 +to do this: type M-:, and then this + +00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.000 +thing here, and then ENTER. + +00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:33.000 +And I suggested this instead. + +00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.000 +Copy this expression to your notes, + +00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.000 +and then type C-e C-x C-e... + +00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:42.000 +and the mnemonic for C-e C-x C-e is + +00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:44.000 +C-exe, for "execute". + +00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.000 +And then... for me the option 1, + +00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:50.000 +this option here, is very costly, + +00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.000 +because the person has to type a lot + +00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.000 +without errors, + +00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.000 +and then after running that + +00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.000 +and reading this page here... + +00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.000 +the way of going back to that page is gone. + +00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.000 +So the person has to commit lots + +00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.000 +of information to memory - + +00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.000 +either the person learns from this page + +00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:16.000 +everything that she needs or the person + +00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:20.000 +memorizes how to go there the next time.... + +00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.000 +and for me the option 2 - this one: + +00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.000 +put this in your notes and then + +00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.000 +execute it with C-exe - + +00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:32.000 +is much better, because the person + +00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.000 +commits information to notes, + +00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.000 +and the person learns a way to return + +00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.000 +to this node of the manual later... + +00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:45.000 +and with this the person learns + +00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.000 +another way to use her notes. + +00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:50.000 +I have a lot of material about that... + +00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.000 +see for example this page here - + +00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.000 +there's a link to it + +00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.000 +in my page for this talk... + +00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.000 +also, I live in a place in which + +00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.000 +the people who find my instructions + +00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.000 +too complex or too boring + +00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.000 +disappear - either for months or forever... + +00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.000 +So if I give an instruction + +00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.000 +that the person cannot understand + +00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.000 +and the person gives up + +00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:15.000 +I lose the person... + +00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.000 +Now let me do some things in a weird order. + +00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.000 +In a normal presentation this would be + +00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.000 +the conclusion, and it would be presented + +00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.000 +at the end... + +00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.000 +but I will present it now, + +00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.000 +before the technical details. + +00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.000 +So, I was teaching Emacs, eev and Maxima + +00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:34.000 +for students... did it work well? + +00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.000 +Well... sort of, but in a weird way. + +00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.000 +Many students decided to take my test + +00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.000 +on Emacs, eev, and Maxima... + +00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.000 +let me consider only the 35 students + +00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.000 +in the two last semesters that were able + +00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.000 +to do what I asked, that was to use a link + +00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:56.000 +like this one to go to my notes... + +00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:59.000 +they had to go to a specific small program + +00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.000 +in Maxima, copy that program to their notes, + +00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.000 +modify it a bit to make it solve + +00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.000 +a slightly different problem, + +00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.000 +and then save the new program. + +00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.000 +So it was mostly a test on the interface, + +00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.000 +and to test if they knew some + +00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.000 +very basic things on Maxima... + +00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:19.000 +but of these 35 students only 10 students + +00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.000 +asked questions on the Telegram group... + +00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.000 +Mostly they discussed + +00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.000 +with other students... + +00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.000 +sometimes live - they would bring + +00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.000 +their laptops to the university to discuss... + +00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.000 +they only do that very rarely, + +00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:40.000 +but they brought it... + +00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.000 +other times they would discuss + +00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.000 +with their colleagues on Discord... + +00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:47.000 +but I got very little feedback + +00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.000 +for my usability test. + +00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:52.000 +So my experiment failed - in the sense + +00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.000 +that I didn't get the feedback + +00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.000 +that I expected - I only got a fraction + +00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.000 +of the feedback that I expected... + +00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.000 +...but I learned lots of things. + +00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.000 +Well, I got very angry, very frustrated, + +00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.000 +but I saw that I can't invest a lot of energy + +00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.000 +on students who... how do I say? + +00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.000 +who "won't talk to me". + +00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.000 +then I decided to make contact + +00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.000 +with some schools - secondary schools - + +00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:21.000 +and to make a long story short... + +00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:25.000 +in one of the schools I was + +00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.000 +very well received... + +00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.000 +the students asked lots of questions, + +00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:31.000 +and in the middle of the discussion + +00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:35.000 +we were discussing this little program here, + +00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.000 +that splits the the frame in two windows + +00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:38.000 +and displays the file ~/HELP + +00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.000 +in the window at the right... + +00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:46.000 +and I showed them Elisp tutorial, + +00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:50.000 +that starts... here... + +00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:55.000 +and right in its third section + +00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.000 +it explains `quote'. + +00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.000 +So, I had to explain to them + +00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.000 +how we can use quote to pass... + +00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.000 +to avoid evaluating a program... + +00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:09.000 +we can use quote to pass unevaluated + +00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:11.000 +programs as arguments... + +00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.000 +and quote blew their minds, + +00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:16.000 +and I was amazed by their questions, + +00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:18.000 +and I saw more clearly that the campus + +00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.000 +in which I work is a hole, + +00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.000 +and that I need to do more things outside. + +00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.000 +Now let's see some technical details. + +00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:28.000 +What exactly am I teaching to + +00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:20.000 +these students? + +00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:32.000 +Basically, my old tutorial for eev + +00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:36.000 +was this one... it started with a + +00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.000 +section on installing eev, and then it + +00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.000 +explained Lisp, and how to use + +00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.000 +elisp hyperlinks... + +00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:46.000 +and then lots of other things... + +00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.000 +but I'm using this new tutorial here, + +00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:51.000 +that I am not announcing in many places + +00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.000 +because I wanted to test it a lot + +00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:59.000 +before making it very public... + +00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:04.000 +and it starts with other installation + +00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.000 +instructions, that start with + +00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:11.000 +instructions for installing WSL + +00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:13.000 +on a machine with Windows, + +00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.000 +and then installing Debian there + +00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.000 +and then after that people have to install + +00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:26.000 +Emacs, and then they have to install eev... + +00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.000 +And I'm also using this map here, + +00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.000 +that I'm reorganizing, + +00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.000 +so it's going to change a lot + +00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.000 +in the next days... + +00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:40.000 +it has a 2-dimensional map here, + +00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.000 +and it has lots of things that I'm putting + +00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.000 +in a single place to make it easier + +00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:49.000 +to answer questions, and to show + +00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.000 +to the students that I have answers + +00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:56.000 +for the most common questions... + +00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.000 +Remember, my target audience + +00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.000 +is mostly composed of beginners who have + +00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.000 +never seen a terminal in their lives, + +00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.000 +and that get bored very quickly... + +00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.000 +and when they get bored they disappear. + +00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:15.000 +What are my main goals for the first day? + +00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.000 +I want them to "install everything", + +00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.000 +where "everything" means WSL on their + +00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:27.000 +Windows machines, then Debian, Emacs, eev, + +00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:32.000 +lots of Debian packages that they install + +00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:44.000 +with this block here... + +00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.000 +After that they need to run + +00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.000 +some Maxima programs, and some test blocks... + +00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.000 +and configure Emacs, and create a first set + +00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:57.000 +of executable notes, and I consider + +00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.000 +that after that the person is + +00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:01.000 +autonomous. + +00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:04.000 +I said that the students + +00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:05.000 +learn how to "Run some Maxima programs". + +00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:07.000 +Let me be more precise about that. + +00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.000 +The first step is something + +00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:14.000 +that I call "The 5-minute workshop"... + +00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:17.000 +it happens in the classroom, + +00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.000 +on my laptop, and I make the students + +00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:20.000 +run this. + +00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.000 +Actually in a first moment I run + +00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.000 +this thing here, and then I ask them + +00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.000 +to run it themselves. + +00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:35.000 +So: I type f8 on these three things here, + +00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.000 +we get a target buffer running Maxima, + +00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:40.000 +then I type f8 several other times here... + +00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:42.000 +when I type f8 here it opens a GNUPlot + +00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:46.000 +window, that I have to close + +00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.000 +by typing `q' here... + +00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.000 +and that's it. And then I say: + +00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.000 +now it's your turn. And the students go there, + +00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:56.000 +they type f8 three times, and then they + +00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:03.000 +type f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 q f8 q... + +00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:07.000 +The second step is similar - + +00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.000 +is another individual workshop, + +00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:01.000 +also just a few minutes long, + +00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:15.000 +in which they learn how to access my notes. + +00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:17.000 +My notes on Maxima are here - + +00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:21.000 +I mean, this is the HTMLized version... + +00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:26.000 +it starts with a header, then a huge index, + +00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.000 +then many blocks like this... + +00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.000 +and this is a specific block that corresponds + +00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.000 +to the thing that we we ran + +00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.000 +in the first 5-minute workshop. + +00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.000 +And in this second 5-minute workshop + +00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:43.000 +they run the instructions in this section... + +00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.000 +usually I skip this thing in the first moment, + +00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:52.000 +then I explain it to them... + +00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.000 +and they run something like this, + +00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.000 +that downloads a copy + +00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:02.000 +of my notes on Maxima, + +00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.000 +puts that copy in a temporary buffer... + +00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000 +and they can run the thing here + +00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:18.000 +exactly in the same way as before... + +00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.000 +And I also ask them to run the small + +00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.000 +Maxim programs in other blocks, + +00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:27.000 +like this one, for example... + +00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.000 +if we run this it calculates the solution + +00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:31.000 +of a question that I put in a test + +00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.000 +one or two semesters ago... + +00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.000 +it starts by calculating several integrals + +00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.000 +and then it organizes all the solutions + +00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:49.000 +in a big Matrix like this... + +00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:52.000 +I said that at one point the students + +00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:55.000 +have to install lots of Debian packages. + +00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.000 +This happens after they have installed + +00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:05.000 +Debian, then Emacs, and eev... + +00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.000 +and they already know a bit about eepitch, + +00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:12.000 +so they are in this section of the + +00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.000 +instructions, and they just have to type + +00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:20.000 +f8 here several times and watch what + +00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.000 +happens... + +00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.000 +after that we have many options, + +00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.000 +and I have this map here and I usually + +00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.000 +choose a path according to the interests + +00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:32.000 +and the questions of the students... + +00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.000 +and there are many things that can go wrong, + +00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.000 +so this page also works as as a place + +00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.000 +in which I put all my troubleshooting + +00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:43.000 +instructions... + +00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:43.000 +and if a student has a question... + +00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:47.000 +I mean, suppose that the student is + +00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.000 +talking to me by WhatsApp or Telegram, + +00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.000 +and the student is saying: + +00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.000 +okay I installed the things such and such, + +00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.000 +and I tried the thing blahblah, and + +00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.000 +something went wrong... + +00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000 +and I say: ok, can you send me a screenshot + +00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:02.000 +or a photo of your screen? + +00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.000 +And then we can troubleshoot that + +00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:10.000 +by using a section of this page here. + +00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.000 +This is a work in progress, + +00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.000 +I'm reorganizing this thing for + +00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:15.000 +the 10th time... + +00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.000 +and the rest of what can happen + +00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:21.000 +with these students can't be explained + +00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.000 +clearly in a video... so I'm going + +00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.000 +to put the all the other stuff in the + +00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.000 +page of the video, and I'm going to stop + +00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.000 +the video here. + +00:30:30.000 --> 00:07:12.000 +So: thanks, and bye! + |