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diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-emacs30--emacs-30-highlights--philip-kaludercic--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-emacs30--emacs-30-highlights--philip-kaludercic--answers.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..74b1254c --- /dev/null +++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-emacs30--emacs-30-highlights--philip-kaludercic--answers.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,957 @@ +WEBVTT + +00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.079 +You sound great. And on the stream, my eyeball says it looks + +00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:08.239 +great with Leo doing the streaming. So I say let's dive right + +00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:12.639 +in. You got a long, huge line. And in order to be a little more + +00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:16.279 +dialectical, I'll be reading the questions. So first + +NOTE Q: which-key was a third-party package for a long time. Is there work to bring any other popular packages into core Emacs for Emacs 31+? (magit, counsel, etc) + +00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:18.559 +question, which key was a third party package for a long + +00:00:18.560 --> 00:00:21.879 +time? Is there work to bring any other popular packages into + +00:00:21.880 --> 00:00:25.399 +the core of Emacs for Emacs 31 plus, like Magit or Counsel? + +00:00:25.400 --> 00:00:30.279 +Uh, right. I already answered that one on the, as you can see, + +00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.999 +uh, right. Yeah. Do you want to quickly read the answer so + +00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:38.439 +that everyone, I just can read it out again. Um, as far as I + +00:00:38.440 --> 00:00:41.159 +remember, the one package that was being discussed just + +00:00:41.160 --> 00:00:43.999 +around the time that the Emacs 30 branch was cut was macro + +00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.599 +step. That's the package that was like, does an overlay, uh, + +00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:51.479 +replaces a macro with the macro expansion using overlays. + +00:00:51.480 --> 00:00:53.799 +So you don't have to pop up another buffer, modified, + +00:00:53.800 --> 00:00:57.599 +modified current buffer. But we didn't manage to address + +00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.759 +all the concerns in time for the Emacs 30 cuts and I believe + +00:01:00.760 --> 00:01:03.799 +it's sort of stagnated around that but it might be picked up + +00:01:03.800 --> 00:01:07.399 +anytime someone mentions it on Emacs Devil again. Another + +00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:11.519 +package question mentioned was Magit. That's a constant + +00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:14.959 +discussion regarding Magit. And actually, from the top of + +00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:19.039 +my head, I can't recall if Magit is on NonGNU ELPA or GNU ELPA + +00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.999 +right now. It's still on NonGNU ELPA. + +00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:29.039 +For those who don't know, only packages which are in ELPA are + +00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:33.039 +considered for addition, considered to be added to the + +00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:36.119 +Emacs core, to be bundled along with Emacs. And then there's + +00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:40.519 +another totally parallel discussion about having a sort of + +00:01:40.520 --> 00:01:43.519 +fat Emacs distribution, I call it fat Emacs distribution, + +00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:48.119 +where Emacs comes with a lot of ELPA packages or the + +00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:55.039 +pre-installed by default. Part of Emacs itself. Yeah. + +00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:59.159 +Maybe I could jump in with an active listening style, + +00:01:59.160 --> 00:02:03.359 +you know, kind of follow up question almost. You know, I + +00:02:03.360 --> 00:02:07.159 +understand the kind of different repositories. We have + +00:02:07.160 --> 00:02:13.799 +things that aren't maintained by GNU at all, you know, most + +00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.919 +notably MELPA. And then we have kind of NonGNU ELPA, which + +00:02:17.920 --> 00:02:21.639 +is sort of an entryway project where it's not necessarily + +00:02:21.640 --> 00:02:24.759 +curated, but there'll be some advice given, which you can + +00:02:24.760 --> 00:02:28.159 +take or leave. And that's the repository where anything + +00:02:28.160 --> 00:02:32.519 +that was the newer repository that represents, you know, + +00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:36.319 +help, you know, help, help supplied from GNU. And then + +00:02:36.320 --> 00:02:41.319 +there's the, actually the GNU, the GNU ELPA, what most of us + +00:02:41.320 --> 00:02:46.479 +are used to calling just ELPA. And that's what you're + +00:02:46.480 --> 00:02:50.839 +talking about there when you say, + +00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.959 +I mean, all packages on ELPA are officially considered to be + +00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:56.959 +part of Emacs, they're licensed under the same conditions + +00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:00.359 +as Emacs itself, same license, same everything. And + +00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.719 +they're more likely to be, to drop, to kind of be dropping + +00:03:03.720 --> 00:03:07.839 +patched. Oh yeah, it's time for this to move to core. Is that + +00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.559 +right? They have the legal conditions for that to be done. + +00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.039 +Everything's necessary from a paperwork standpoint. I + +00:03:15.040 --> 00:03:17.959 +mean, but other than that, there's not really a big + +00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:21.159 +difference between GNU ELPA and NonGNU ELPA. It's + +00:03:21.160 --> 00:03:23.839 +really just the main thing is this copyrights notice. So if + +00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:28.519 +you want to add a package to ELPA, to GNU ELPA, then all + +00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:32.359 +significance contributors have to have signed the FSF + +00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:36.399 +copyright assignment and the package script, actually the + +00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:41.519 +ELPA build script, checks if the copyright lines are all + +00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.879 +attributed to the Free Software Foundation. + +00:03:43.880 --> 00:03:52.119 +But that's not going to attach, right? So because that's not + +00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:57.799 +in place, it'd be a lot more work to merge it to core. I didn't + +00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:01.039 +hear the beginning. Nevermind. I think I understood. You + +00:04:01.040 --> 00:04:05.559 +made your point well. Okay. All right, moving on to the + +00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:06.466 +second question. + +NOTE Q: Any way to get the goodness of Emacs for android with this other stuff? + +00:04:06.467 --> 00:04:08.279 +When thinking about using Emacs on + +00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:11.279 +Android, I started realizing all the other software I also + +00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.279 +want on it. For example, PDF Tools wants a small additional + +00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:18.519 +Emacs-specific program to be installed on, and notmuch + +00:04:18.520 --> 00:04:21.359 +obviously wants notmuch. Any way to get the goodness of + +00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:25.639 +Emacs for Android with this other stuff, using either Nix OS + +00:04:25.640 --> 00:04:29.279 +or Guix or nix-on-droid to make an APK with extra stuff? Are you + +00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:34.439 +familiar with this topic? Absolutely not. The extent to + +00:04:34.440 --> 00:04:39.319 +which I have used Emacs on Android was entirely + +00:04:39.320 --> 00:04:43.719 +demonstrated in this video, I think. In my previous video. I + +00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:48.719 +mean, I know it does a few scrolling stuff, but I have no idea + +00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.719 +how external stuff, because I mean, Android is, it's a Unix + +00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:55.439 +or it's a Linux based system, but it's really heavily + +00:04:55.440 --> 00:05:01.439 +modified to the preferences of Google, which includes not + +00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:04.719 +being able to have your own software on it. Yeah, + +00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:08.799 +definitely. All right, moving on to the next question. Does + +00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.239 +package-vc... Oh, no, that's fine. I mean, you can't answer + +00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:15.199 +all the questions. I mean, it wouldn't be fun for me + +00:05:15.200 --> 00:05:15.753 +otherwise. + +NOTE Q: Does package-vc download a tarball from the specified git repository or clone the repository itself? + +00:05:15.754 --> 00:05:17.919 +Does package-vc download a tarball from the + +00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.759 +specified Git repository or clone the repository itself? + +00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:25.439 +It clones the repository. That's the VC part in the name. + +00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:33.719 +package-vc uses VC, the C-x v stuff. In Emacs 29, there's a + +00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:37.679 +new command called vc-clone, which in Emacs 31, it was + +00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.479 +actually exposed as an interactive command. And when you + +00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:47.319 +clone the repository, or when you, you can give it any URL of a + +00:05:47.320 --> 00:05:50.559 +Git repository or a CVS repository or subversion + +00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.519 +repository. Interestingly enough, most people only use + +00:05:53.520 --> 00:05:57.559 +Git, but anything that's, that implements this clone + +00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:01.519 +command for VC, and it could download it. So there's no + +00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:05.119 +tarballs involved. Which is also, one should emphasize, + +00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.879 +part of the difficulty of VC packages because when you have + +00:06:07.880 --> 00:06:10.759 +version control and you want to upgrade it, it might be that + +00:06:10.760 --> 00:06:14.399 +the upstream did a force push. For that, you make local + +00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:17.519 +changes and then you have to merge them upstream with the + +00:06:17.520 --> 00:06:21.239 +upstream changes when fetching stuff. It's one of the big + +00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.559 +downsides of version-controlled stuff, and I'm saying + +00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:26.999 +this as the guy who actually wrote package-vc. There's + +00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.719 +times to use it, there's advantages to it, but that's + +00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:32.959 +something you should keep in mind, why tarballs are + +00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:37.969 +interesting to have, in my opinion. Okay. + +NOTE How is the new behavior of M-q in prog-mode (prog-fill-reindent-defun or something like that) different from the behavior of C-M-q (indent-pp-sexp) in older Emacs versions? + +00:06:37.970 --> 00:06:39.639 +How is the new + +00:06:39.640 --> 00:06:42.439 +behavior of M-q in prog mode, prog-fill-reindent-defun + +00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:45.159 +or something like that, different from the behavior + +00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:48.799 +of C-M-q, i.e. indent-pp-sexp in older Emacs + +00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:52.199 +version? My apologies if indent-pp-sexp, it's really tough to + +00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:55.959 +read M-x commands out loud. It's not bound to + +00:06:55.960 --> 00:07:01.519 +C-M-q by default, I can't tell. Let me try that command + +00:07:01.520 --> 00:07:05.599 +out because I've never tried it, never used it before. + +00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:09.079 +You know, that isn't bound by default. I bind that up myself + +00:07:09.080 --> 00:07:11.759 +and I have that binding. I think that's, that's not right. It + +00:07:11.760 --> 00:07:15.119 +says so. I mean, I'm currently executing it here in Emacs and + +00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:20.839 +it says you can also run the commands indent-pp-sexp with + +00:07:20.840 --> 00:07:26.359 +M-q, C-M-q. Apparently it is. I mean, I + +00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:31.359 +didn't set it myself. I don't know what's up with that. to try + +00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:35.439 +and move it. And then each line started with points or pretty + +00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:37.239 +printed. I mean, the difference, the main difference + +00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:41.279 +between that and the command highlighted, what's the name + +00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:47.479 +again? I forget it all the time. The prog-mode command. + +00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:50.359 +prog-fill-reindent-defun is that + +00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:56.319 +it checks if it's in a string or not. If it's in a string or if + +00:07:56.320 --> 00:07:58.959 +it's in a comma, then it will refill. Otherwise, it's going + +00:07:58.960 --> 00:07:59.799 +to re-indent. + +00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:05.679 +That's, I think, as far as I see, that's going to be the main + +00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:09.599 +difference. If we have some long comments somewhere. Let's + +00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:15.439 +try that out. Yeah, that's the difference. I just, you can't + +00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:19.679 +see it, but I did try it. Okay, good. Thank you. You did a + +00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:22.119 +wonderful job describing visually what you're doing. All + +00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:26.759 +right, moving on to the next question, and we have about, we + +00:08:26.760 --> 00:08:28.759 +have just enough time to cover the last three questions, + +00:08:28.760 --> 00:08:32.239 +especially because the next one, I can pretty much surmise + +00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:33.143 +the answer. + +NOTE Q: Any plans for Emacs running in iOS? + +00:08:33.144 --> 00:08:36.759 +Any plans for Emacs running on iOS? Probably not + +00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:40.319 +because it's not, I mean, as I emphasized in the video, the + +00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:43.639 +Emacs port in Android is completely free. And to my + +00:08:43.640 --> 00:08:45.319 +knowledge, that's not something that's currently + +00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:49.799 +possible with iOS. You need Xcode or something like that to + +00:08:49.800 --> 00:08:56.639 +build iOS stuff. So that's a big no-no. I mean, maybe Apple's + +00:08:56.640 --> 00:09:00.919 +going to change their mind on that one. Well, I won't be the + +00:09:00.920 --> 00:09:04.039 +one liaising with Apple to make sure that they do, but PR + +00:09:04.040 --> 00:09:07.599 +welcomes, I guess, or motivated folks welcome. Second to + +00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:08.647 +last question. + +NOTE Q: I am worried about the situation on non-free systems. There was talk about the Windows and the macOS versions being as good as unmaintained. Where do we go from here? + +00:09:08.648 --> 00:09:11.719 +I am worried about the situation on non-free + +00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:14.519 +systems. There was talk about the Windows and the macOS + +00:09:14.520 --> 00:09:17.039 +versions being as good as unmaintained. Where do we go from + +00:09:17.040 --> 00:09:20.399 +here? I gather that most users of Emacs are still on non-free + +00:09:20.400 --> 00:09:24.799 +platforms and will remain to be there. I don't know about the + +00:09:24.800 --> 00:09:28.279 +last point, if that's true, because there's no statistics + +00:09:28.280 --> 00:09:35.039 +on that matter. But the main, I mean, someone has to, I know + +00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:37.959 +that Corwin is involved with the Mac, with the Windows + +00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:43.199 +stuff. Modestly. Sure, I'd love to jump in, but I'm far more + +00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.839 +interested in your thoughts than mine. Please, please + +00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:51.039 +continue. Someone has to do the work. Eli uses, as far as I + +00:09:51.040 --> 00:09:58.719 +know, Eli's on the Windows XP system. So as long as he's doing + +00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:02.519 +that, there's going to be Windows support for one form or + +00:10:02.520 --> 00:10:07.959 +another, or at least DOS. All right. And now you put a quarter + +00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:12.439 +in me, so I'll jump right back in. That's perfect for where I + +00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:14.519 +guess I would take the question. To me, it's an + +00:10:14.520 --> 00:10:17.439 +accessibility issue. Think about it this way. Maybe that + +00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:23.319 +Windows XP system is what someone can afford. Likewise, + +00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:27.679 +from a freedom versus I have to do my job and I have to use + +00:10:27.680 --> 00:10:31.679 +certain technology to do my job. Maybe Emacs is what + +00:10:31.680 --> 00:10:35.559 +somebody can afford right? It might be the only free tool + +00:10:35.560 --> 00:10:37.439 +that they use and they don't have a lot of choice about the + +00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:40.039 +operating system that they're in most of the day. In fact, + +00:10:40.040 --> 00:10:42.279 +somebody could be in the situation where their computing + +00:10:42.280 --> 00:10:45.839 +device at work is really their internet access, right? All + +00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:48.279 +of those situations are possible. Therefore, I tend to + +00:10:48.280 --> 00:10:53.479 +assume they all exist and when I ask, you know, how much It + +00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:58.039 +definitely is concerning when we hear about kind of black + +00:10:58.040 --> 00:11:02.079 +holes in the brain trust of something like support for the + +00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:06.359 +Windows port. I feel like I've heard a lot of people + +00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:10.959 +answering that call, but the importance of that is that it + +00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:14.119 +doesn't stop echoing, right? Free software goes as long as + +00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.399 +there are people that are irritated enough about something + +00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:20.839 +to sort of come hack on it. Yeah. And the same applies to Mac + +00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:25.199 +OS. But I don't know any concrete details about who's + +00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.079 +currently working on it. I can't recollect any details on + +00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:29.439 +who's currently working on what. + +00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:35.279 +Okay. And that leaves us with the last question of the day. + +NOTE Q: Is there a best practice on what Org to use when following emacs-latest? + +00:11:35.280 --> 00:11:38.159 +I'm a bit confused about what version of Org that I should + +00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:40.919 +write towards because there's Org in Emacs, the one that + +00:11:40.920 --> 00:11:44.279 +ships built-in. There's the one in ELPA. There's the one in + +00:11:44.280 --> 00:11:48.519 +Org, probably the Org ELPA, I assume. Is there a best + +00:11:48.520 --> 00:11:51.959 +practice on what Org to use when following Emacs latest? + +00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:58.919 +when following us latest. It depends on, I think, my rough + +00:11:58.920 --> 00:12:02.559 +heuristic is if you do use Org a lot and if you follow the + +00:12:02.560 --> 00:12:06.279 +newest features, then use the version on Elpa, because the + +00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:09.959 +Elpa version should be the most up-to-date one. The Org Elpa + +00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:14.999 +was deprecated, to my knowledge. If that seems true, please + +00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.319 +someone interrupt me before I make a fool of myself. + +00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:24.519 +No one's done that yet. + +00:12:24.520 --> 00:12:29.519 +I think a couple of years ago there were chats and then we + +00:12:29.520 --> 00:12:33.999 +deprecated the all contrib ELPA, but I think all the ELPA is + +00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:40.759 +still alive. I didn't know that about that. Okay, in that + +00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:44.839 +case, that relativizes how absolute my answer is. + +00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:49.559 +Personally, I just use the version in Emacs, which is + +00:12:49.560 --> 00:12:53.399 +bundled with Emacs, which is regularly updated on master + +00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:58.319 +whenever there's a release. But that might take maybe, it + +00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:03.559 +might be a short time behind the ELPA version, or the other + +00:13:03.560 --> 00:13:11.879 +ELPA, the Org ELPA, which we mentioned. But I'm a very light + +00:13:11.880 --> 00:13:16.119 +Org mode user, so please don't take my word for that one. No, + +00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:23.439 +and I'm happy to come to you. Yeah. I + +00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:27.719 +feel like we lost Leo again. OK. Well, that's all right. I + +00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.279 +wanted a bite at that, Apple. I'm a little bit. Yeah, I also + +00:13:31.280 --> 00:13:34.239 +describe myself as a light org user, but somehow your + +00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.159 +comment made me think, well, maybe I do use it just a little + +00:13:37.160 --> 00:13:41.719 +bit more than you, Philip. + +00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.359 +From my standpoint, I'm using it as a technical basis for + +00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:49.959 +dungeon mode in order to keep the game notes for the games + +00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.479 +that are made using this game engine I'm making that I talked + +00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.079 +about a few years ago. As soon as you said technical grounds, + +00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.319 +you definitely use it more. Right, right. So I've studied + +00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:04.159 +its internals a bit, and I have my own thoughts about this or + +00:14:04.160 --> 00:14:06.959 +that. But of course, I'm rolling with the punches because + +00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:10.119 +I'm just grateful that the bear dances. What an amazing + +00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:14.519 +thing is Org Mode. But Leo knows far more than me, + +00:14:14.520 --> 00:14:18.359 +conveniently having his stage right here, so he can't + +00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.359 +defend himself from this. But I've had thoughts around this + +00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:28.559 +space. Are you back, Leo? Yeah, sorry, I'm back. You save us + +00:14:28.560 --> 00:14:33.479 +all. Maybe closing remarks. I was trying to clear my throat + +00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.079 +to be very inconspicuous about me coming back, but + +00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:39.319 +apparently I was ousted. Yeah, I was trying to answer the + +00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.239 +question and I was trying to desperately save you from + +00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.999 +answering, Philip, because yes, the thing about Org Mode is + +00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.879 +that if you are the kind of people who tend to check out master + +00:14:48.880 --> 00:14:51.919 +on Org Mode, generally it's roughly pretty stable. Like + +00:14:51.920 --> 00:14:54.319 +when we were working with Org Element and stuff like this, + +00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.479 +Perhaps there were some elements of stability which + +00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.199 +weren't there quite yet, but usually now it's pretty + +00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:02.039 +stable. So I think that if you are really excited about + +00:15:02.040 --> 00:15:04.639 +contributing to Org Mode and stuff like this, I think there + +00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:08.199 +isn't all that many risks to just checking out Org Mode + +00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.999 +Master, so cloning the repository and just keeping up to + +00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.119 +date. Otherwise, ELPA is a fairly safe bet if you want to have + +00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.839 +the latest stable version. And we've got a question about + +00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:24.759 +[??] as with Emacs itself. You can follow whatever is + +00:15:24.760 --> 00:15:28.519 +published in your package archives or in your system + +00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:32.399 +distribution package manager. You can build it yourself if + +00:15:32.400 --> 00:15:36.839 +you want to contribute and fix bugs, add features, and so on. + +00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.399 +Yeah, and I don't think perhaps a little more with Emacs, + +00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:43.439 +because the features that tends to get introduced in Emacs + +00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.039 +are slightly more wild. Not wild in the sense that they are + +00:15:48.040 --> 00:15:50.679 +less stable, but wild in the sense that they tend to change a + +00:15:50.680 --> 00:15:54.119 +lot more stuff. The core of Org, at least during Bastien's + +00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:56.879 +maintenance ship, was very stable when you think about it. + +00:15:56.880 --> 00:15:59.719 +So things might change with Ihor right now in terms of how he + +00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.839 +wants to change some of the core behaviors, but it's usually + +00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:06.079 +pretty stable. And whether you use the latest major + +00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.159 +version, the latest minor version, things are probably + +00:16:09.160 --> 00:16:11.679 +going to be pretty stable. It's like you heard me while you + +00:16:11.680 --> 00:16:16.199 +were offline. And I do agree with that, in case you might have + +00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.319 +heard both our remarks and think we're talking different + +00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.439 +angles. Actually, I think we would tend to agree on this, Leo + +00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.759 +and I. For the record, when I'm saying, oh, I have to go keep up + +00:16:26.760 --> 00:16:30.719 +with org, that's because org grows behaviors that I've got + +00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:34.639 +my own. I had to figure out at some point my own way to do it, and + +00:16:34.640 --> 00:16:38.119 +now I'm learning how it's done, right? So I'm like, in my + +00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:41.279 +abstraction, blah, right? And those conversations + +00:16:41.280 --> 00:16:44.279 +usually end at, and somebody else took the time to figure out + +00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:48.039 +how to actually make Emacs do that. Go be quiet. And I do, and I + +00:16:48.040 --> 00:16:52.999 +do consider that under Bastien's tenure, it has been quite + +00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:57.039 +stable. We might notice the occasional like, oh, this + +00:16:57.040 --> 00:17:00.519 +highlights now and that didn't, right? But very often, very + +00:17:00.520 --> 00:17:03.599 +infrequently is it breaking my workflow as a user, any of it. + +00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:07.799 +It's interesting to me that this mirrors my experience with + +00:17:07.800 --> 00:17:12.679 +Emacs itself, where I think, in my perception, Emacs master + +00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:17.199 +is very stable and I might notice the slight changes between + +00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:21.839 +git pulls. But otherwise, in my experience, Org mode + +00:17:21.840 --> 00:17:24.879 +suddenly changes something, I don't know what changed or + +00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:29.439 +what's going on or what caused it, and it seemed... I + +00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:33.719 +perceive it as being a sudden uncontrolled change or + +00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.239 +something. I think that's apt. Right. That gets + +00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:40.159 +right at it. If we're following, if we're pulling for more + +00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:42.759 +pretty regularly, cronjob every night or pulling a few + +00:17:42.760 --> 00:17:44.639 +times a day or something like that, we're going to the + +00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:48.639 +internals yeah, we'll have a different experience than, + +00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.959 +you know, if we only remember to update Org once every four + +00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:54.759 +months. It really pays to stick with everything. And + +00:17:54.760 --> 00:17:59.199 +suddenly lots of things might change. Whatever broke in my + +00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.439 +own config, right? And so a lot of, like a lot of things within + +00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.759 +Emacs, but also within the free software tool chain, it's + +00:18:06.760 --> 00:18:09.559 +how much you're going to invent in the config, invest in the + +00:18:09.560 --> 00:18:14.199 +config, might limit you know, and maintaining your config + +00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.199 +may limit the depth of how far it makes sense for you to go with + +00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:21.759 +the tool at any given point in time. Actually just looked up + +00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:25.279 +my org config and it's four, I said four options, user + +00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:29.239 +options. So that's, if that's the measurements of org + +00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.119 +expertise, that's my level, it's four. + +00:18:32.120 --> 00:18:38.559 +That's all good then. Four of four, I'm assuming that is, + +00:18:38.560 --> 00:18:44.279 +right? Four of what? What was the metric there, four of like a + +00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:48.119 +thousand? Four out of the number of user options that Word + +00:18:48.120 --> 00:18:54.239 +provides. Oh, okay, I see. Four, yeah, more like 10,000. I'm + +00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:59.079 +there. Yeah. All right. On that note, I suggest we move to + +00:18:59.080 --> 00:19:00.999 +what's close because it's fairly late for me and I need to + +00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.119 +sleep. And Philip, I think it's pretty late for you as well, + +00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:07.239 +isn't it? I'm in Germany, so it's about... So it is pretty + +00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.799 +late. It's the same time zone as me. It's 11 p.m. for you. + +00:19:09.800 --> 00:19:16.399 +Truly, yeah. Yeah, so I suggest we both take the chance to go + +00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.359 +to bed as soon as we can. But Philip, thank you so much for + +00:19:20.360 --> 00:19:22.759 +both the presentation and also the answers that you + +00:19:22.760 --> 00:19:26.119 +provided to us and the nice little chat we had at the end. We + +00:19:26.120 --> 00:19:29.519 +look forward to seeing you again next year, perhaps for + +00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:34.159 +Emacs 31. I'm not sure. I was chatting with wasamasa + +00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.679 +trying to make prognostics about when Emacs 30 is going to be + +00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.839 +released. There's a pre-release coming soon. I should have + +00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:46.719 +mentioned that earlier. Well, there you go. Gone. + +00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:51.839 +All right. Well, thank you so much, Philip. We'll be moving + +00:19:51.840 --> 00:19:54.479 +towards close. Give us about two minutes to get set up in the + +00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.439 +other room. And Philip, we'll see you next time. Goodbye. + +00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.160 +Bye-bye. Thank you. |