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diff --git a/2023/talks/collab.md b/2023/talks/collab.md index 4f688b7d..65ac55a3 100644 --- a/2023/talks/collab.md +++ b/2023/talks/collab.md @@ -65,6 +65,126 @@ explore the capabilities and functionalities of org-mode, discovering how it can enhance data management and presentation in their research processes. +# Discussion + +## Questions and answers + +- Q: How reliable it resolves the conflict? I mean, for my personal + use case, for example, Sycnthing, sometimes it\'s not working + perfectly and I had to manually edit it. How is it robust compared + to syncthing? + - A (Lukas): We also faced sometimes issues that letters got + mixed up. We couldnt figure out what caused it and it was not + reproducable . I cannot compare it to syncthing, never used that + with emacs/org-mode. +- Q: How\'s the security for this kind of things? I mean, if we adopt + these things in our PAD, is there any, can this thing execute + arbitrary (elisp) code in different people\'s computer? (Think like + an adversary!) + - A: (Lukas) As far as we saw the code is executed on the local + computer, see the part with the R-code in our video. + - (zaeph) We had plans with qhong (maintainer of crdt.el) to + tunnel the connection via SSL, but we were blocked by the SSL + library that shipped with Emacs, sadly. However, we did create + a security policy that allowed restrictions on the execution of + Elisp code. (great!) +- Q: Really nice talk and demo! You guys clearly rehearsed :). I + always wonder with serial data processing sequencing like this, to + what degree do the intermediate outputs need to appear inline in the + text? Suppose you had 50,000 or one million rows from your initial + wikidata (or similar) call. How would you handle that size of data + using a collaborative, literate approach like this? + - A: (Lukas) Good question. In your local buffer there is no + difference and for the collaborative partner I cannot tell. We + testet it with 50 items because that was enough for + demonstrating our purpose. + - noweb allows getting results of evaluation without having to put + the actual data into Org buffer - just arrange the original + block generating the data to have :results silent. Basically, + :var foo=block-name does not require \"block-name\" to be + evaluated in advance - it will be evaluated as necessary. AFAIU, + in the talk, it is re-evaluated every time (to not have it, one + would need :cache t). + - This has tremendous utility + - So it would be stored on disk and referenced by name in a + subsequent block? Sounds useful. + - Not on disk - just cached within a single session. To store + on disk, need to save to actual file on disk. +- Q: How do you handle the viewing of larger or really any tabular + data in Emacs/Org when you want to inspect it, like the nice way + tabular data is displayed inline in Rmarkdown/RStudio? + - A: (Lukas) I have no particular way of doing this. + - What about pandas data summary functionality? Can be a simple + python block. + - Lukas: Jonathan is our python expert, he might answer this + question. + - A: (Jonathan) If I follow, you can certainly just use + DataFrame.describe() or Series.describe() to get summary + statistics for a dataset - the return value would be a Series or + a DataFrame, which would be displayed similiarly to how we show + things here. Alternatively, DataFrame.head(n) or + DataFrame.sample(n) would return a dataframe of the first n / n + random lines of a dataset, and might be a way of providing the + gist of a very large dataset without printing the entire table + in the document. + - Would be nice to have a \"summarized table\" functionality in + Org, that includes an abridged copy of a long table inline, but + you can open it in another buffer to browse/edit the full table + (ala block edit). + - Feel free to post a feature request - see + <https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback> +- Q: I\'m thinking about an application for a single user, but in + different platforms. In a simple case. For example, you have a + buffer in your local computer, and you also want to have some files + on your pad or on your phone, and you can use this CADT concept to + make sure that there\'s not too much conflict in between different + editing sections. Do you think this is a good idea? I mean, compared + to purely relying on Syncthing, which sometimes I feel is unreliable + for resolving those conflicts. + - A: (Lukas) This sounds very interesting and could beneficial for + contiously working on things. + +## Notes + +- I like the way you highlight the point you are talking about in real + time. +- Conflict-free Replicated Data Types (CADT) :: + <https://github.com/emacs-straight/crdt> +- !This is the future of PAD for our conference. +- Just came here to say watching two users editing the same buffer + simultaneously is BLOWING MY MIND + - BLOWING MY MIND +2 + - blowing my mind, too ... + - WOW +- Gitlab custom-export.setup + - What about it? + - I am looking for that setup file and want to try it :) + \--\> + <https://git.rwth-aachen.de/dl/workshops/collaborative-coding-with-emacs/-/blob/main/emacs/custom-export.setup> + - Thank you! +- Truly one of the most impressive talks of the day. Congrats! Very + inspiring + - Yes, indeed. + - (Lukas) Wow! Thank you. We werent sure if this is worth showing + at EmacsConf because there already have been plenty of talks + about literate programming and org-babel\.... + - Great collaborative conversation and step-wise example + creates a different (and impactful) framing. Thank you! +- crdt is fantastic; pity that most (all but one) of my collaborators use Word & VS Code. 🙁 +- that's really cool. One of the parts that's a bit hidden from the user is seeing the format that the data is in inside the shell script +- it is whatever constitutes the closest equivalent of table in sh (array) + - yeah, you have to keep the representation in mind when filtering it as text through sed +- this demo is so cool :D +- Really, really impressive I have to admit +- HA. you cannot evaluate in place so seamlessly in that way with Rmarkdown :). And you cannot combine named blocks in this way either. Wish more folks used emacs. +- wow, so `#+CALL` can be embedded in text via `call_()?` TIL +- such a slick presentation, I like the CRDT collaboration angle, looks like an end-game UX +- Impressive workflow! +- great presentation! +- For those of you who remember the bad old days before "reproducible research," that talk is even more impressive. Great job! + - i was prolly not there in the bad old days, but imho reproducible research is a pressing, current problem. +- I feel like that talk video should be shared on Hacker News + [[!inline pages="internal(2023/info/collab-after)" raw="yes"]] |