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+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:09.880
+[Speaker 0]: 2 seconds. And I think we are live.
+
+00:00:10.760 --> 00:00:11.260
+Hi, Jeremy, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:12.040
+[Speaker 1]: All right. I'm doing all right.
+
+00:00:12.380 --> 00:00:12.880
+How about you?
+
+00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:15.060
+[Speaker 0]: I'm doing great as well.
+
+00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:16.640
+I'm really happy to see all the talk that
+
+00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:19.100
+we're having. And I was particularly excited
+
+00:00:21.880 --> 00:00:22.240
+when I got your proposal for this talk
+
+00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:24.279
+because mentoring, as I was telling you
+
+00:00:25.040 --> 00:00:25.540
+during the check-in process,
+
+00:00:27.360 --> 00:00:27.779
+is a subject dear to my heart.
+
+00:00:28.700 --> 00:00:29.200
+So I'm really excited,
+
+00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:30.920
+not only for the talk that you've just done,
+
+00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:32.360
+but also for the question that people are
+
+00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:33.380
+going to ask you.
+
+00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:36.020
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I'm looking forward to answering some
+
+00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:39.880
+questions. Mentoring is also something near
+
+00:00:43.860 --> 00:00:44.320
+and dear. Something I did not mention is when
+
+00:00:45.620 --> 00:00:45.820
+folks would ask me, like,
+
+00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:47.460
+what was your most important class?
+
+00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:49.199
+Or I said, oh, easy, easy,
+
+00:00:50.180 --> 00:00:50.680
+easy, high school English.
+
+00:00:54.160 --> 00:00:54.480
+Like, it's my whatever your primary written
+
+00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:56.820
+and spoken languages I think is the most
+
+00:00:58.860 --> 00:00:59.360
+useful skill as a programmer
+
+00:01:05.379 --> 00:01:05.580
+[Speaker 0]: right so as usual people if you want to ask
+
+00:01:09.520 --> 00:01:09.660
+questions to Jeremy, feel free to find the
+
+00:01:11.440 --> 00:01:11.940
+link to the other pad either on the talk page
+
+00:01:15.440 --> 00:01:15.720
+or on IRC. We're also going to open the chat
+
+00:01:17.320 --> 00:01:17.720
+so that people can join us and ask questions.
+
+00:01:20.380 --> 00:01:20.660
+Let me just make sure that I tell Sasha can
+
+00:01:25.440 --> 00:01:25.580
+you open ID Mentor. All right so in the
+
+00:01:27.320 --> 00:01:27.520
+meantime what we'll do is that I'll be
+
+00:01:29.660 --> 00:01:29.860
+reading questions of the pad and Jeremy will
+
+00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:31.480
+be answering them whilst we wait for you to
+
+00:01:32.800 --> 00:01:33.280
+join. Now just to be clear with the time,
+
+00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:34.820
+we have a little bit of time now,
+
+00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:36.540
+a little more time than before.
+
+00:01:39.520 --> 00:01:39.720
+We have 22 minutes, so until 10 of the next
+
+00:01:41.260 --> 00:01:41.400
+hours to answer as many questions as
+
+00:01:42.520 --> 00:01:42.900
+possible. And believe me,
+
+00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:45.200
+if you people watching right now are not
+
+00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:47.440
+asking questions, I will be asking plenty of
+
+00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:50.340
+them. So please, save Jeremy from my
+
+00:01:53.800 --> 00:01:54.300
+[Speaker 1]: I look forward to it.
+
+00:01:55.320 --> 00:01:55.820
+[Speaker 0]: inquisitive mind. All right.
+
+00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:57.460
+Starting with the first question,
+
+00:01:59.240 --> 00:01:59.680
+a very trivial 1, perhaps,
+
+00:02:01.720 --> 00:02:01.920
+but always 1 that I ask myself when I look at
+
+00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:04.340
+a keyboard. Regarding super key,
+
+00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:06.480
+which key do you bind to super?
+
+00:02:09.620 --> 00:02:10.120
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so my left command,
+
+00:02:12.180 --> 00:02:12.680
+which is on a Mac keyboard,
+
+00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:17.120
+so the key right to the left of the space bar
+
+00:02:20.860 --> 00:02:21.000
+is super. And the key immediately to the
+
+00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:23.400
+right of spacebar, which is the right command
+
+00:02:24.320 --> 00:02:24.820
+key, is bound to hyper,
+
+00:02:28.140 --> 00:02:28.640
+which opens up a whole new suite of keys.
+
+00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:31.280
+And I thought it would take a little bit to
+
+00:02:33.160 --> 00:02:33.660
+get used to, but it's been amazing.
+
+00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:38.300
+So I definitely recommend having a hyper
+
+00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:38.940
+binding.
+
+00:02:42.440 --> 00:02:42.720
+[Speaker 0]: I will, yes. I was also going to say super
+
+00:02:43.860 --> 00:02:44.160
+binding. No, it's a hyper binding.
+
+00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:45.040
+We already have super.
+
+00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:47.280
+It's your Windows key or your Linux key or
+
+00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:48.740
+whatever you want to call it.
+
+00:02:51.140 --> 00:02:51.640
+But I will warn people though,
+
+00:02:57.720 --> 00:02:58.200
+it's the gateway into fancy keyboard setups
+
+00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:01.400
+because it starts, it's the Trojan horse of
+
+00:03:02.700 --> 00:03:03.140
+fancy keyboard setup. Just,
+
+00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:04.820
+oh I wish I could have another modifier.
+
+00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:07.280
+And then many years later,
+
+00:03:09.160 --> 00:03:09.280
+you find yourself with this little thing that
+
+00:03:11.260 --> 00:03:11.760
+I'm showing, which is a fully customized QMK
+
+00:03:12.100 --> 00:03:12.600
+keyboard.
+
+00:03:13.540 --> 00:03:14.040
+[Speaker 2]: All right.
+
+00:03:18.200 --> 00:03:18.700
+[Speaker 1]: Following on that, then meta is to the left
+
+00:03:21.880 --> 00:03:22.080
+of super, and then control is to the left of
+
+00:03:26.720 --> 00:03:26.940
+meta. And also, caps lock maps to control as
+
+00:03:31.380 --> 00:03:31.620
+well. Definitely tried a bunch of tap for
+
+00:03:35.460 --> 00:03:35.940
+this and that on a programmable keyboard,
+
+00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:39.520
+but I have settled on keep it simple and use
+
+00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:41.780
+something like carabiner elements to do most
+
+00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:46.640
+[Speaker 0]: Right. It's good that you were able to stop
+
+00:03:48.480 --> 00:03:48.760
+there. I wish I'd stopped there at some point
+
+00:03:50.940 --> 00:03:51.340
+[Speaker 1]: of the mapping. It was a terrible moment
+
+00:03:52.900 --> 00:03:53.000
+where I'm like, oh, what have I done when I
+
+00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:54.200
+was trying to type once?
+
+00:03:57.500 --> 00:03:58.000
+[Speaker 0]: in my life. All right,
+
+00:03:58.920 --> 00:03:59.420
+moving on to the next question.
+
+00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:01.560
+Great talk. What's the package you used to
+
+00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:02.620
+make the org slide?
+
+00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:03.740
+[Speaker 1]: So yeah, it's great. Yeah,
+
+00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:13.940
+so I am using Protz Logos and have,
+
+00:04:15.660 --> 00:04:16.160
+I think, like, Olivet mode.
+
+00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:20.140
+I'll post a link to the configuration for
+
+00:04:21.019 --> 00:04:21.260
+turning it on and off.
+
+00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:24.680
+But it's basically narrow region to an org
+
+00:04:27.940 --> 00:04:28.220
+heading, which is, I find that to be super
+
+00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:30.800
+helpful. Don't have to fiddle with it.
+
+00:04:32.900 --> 00:04:33.120
+[Speaker 0]: Right, just to be clear,
+
+00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:35.140
+it's Olivetti, right? I think that's the...
+
+00:04:36.460 --> 00:04:36.960
+[Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, Olivetti, yeah.
+
+00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:40.120
+[Speaker 0]: A typical Italian word that is really tough
+
+00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:42.880
+to pronounce between Europeans and people in
+
+00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:46.400
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I had a... For some reason I dropped
+
+00:04:48.940 --> 00:04:49.440
+the I at the end. So in my head
+
+00:04:52.660 --> 00:04:52.800
+[Speaker 0]: the US. Yeah, moving to the next question if
+
+00:04:54.440 --> 00:04:54.800
+people do get interested in picking up emacs
+
+00:04:56.520 --> 00:04:56.680
+because of what they see you do How do you
+
+00:04:58.260 --> 00:04:58.440
+recommend they say they get into it?
+
+00:04:58.440 --> 00:04:58.940
+Oh
+
+00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:06.020
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so I've been I think a lot of it comes
+
+00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:09.780
+down to what are the problems that they're
+
+00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:11.880
+trying to solve. And so I walked them through
+
+00:05:15.460 --> 00:05:15.660
+my journey. I worked in TextMate for a long
+
+00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:17.480
+time, then Sublime, then Atom.
+
+00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:20.720
+And then in 2020, I hopped over to Emacs,
+
+00:05:25.080 --> 00:05:25.580
+started writing in it and I chose Space Max
+
+00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:27.180
+and then I chose Doom.
+
+00:05:28.140 --> 00:05:28.640
+And then I was like, wait,
+
+00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:33.280
+start over, erase everything and just do the
+
+00:05:36.620 --> 00:05:36.760
+tutorial. So I did the tutorial and then I
+
+00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:38.000
+started writing and I was like,
+
+00:05:39.520 --> 00:05:40.020
+oh, I really want this functionality.
+
+00:05:43.380 --> 00:05:43.580
+And so I went and I looked for it and I
+
+00:05:44.060 --> 00:05:44.560
+installed the package.
+
+00:05:46.060 --> 00:05:46.560
+And then I got the functionality,
+
+00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:48.120
+went back to writing, and I'm like,
+
+00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:50.080
+oh, my editor should really be able to do
+
+00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:52.500
+this. And I thought about it.
+
+00:05:55.380 --> 00:05:55.520
+So a lot of it came down to the experience of
+
+00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:56.820
+what they're trying to accomplish.
+
+00:06:00.900 --> 00:06:01.260
+And really helping ask them that.
+
+00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:04.900
+I had 1 mentee had used Vim for a long time
+
+00:06:07.700 --> 00:06:07.940
+and then was exploring using Evil Mode and
+
+00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:13.260
+Emacs and we had conversations and it was
+
+00:06:16.840 --> 00:06:17.220
+like go back to Vim like you were using VS
+
+00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:19.280
+Code just go back to Vim and they went back
+
+00:06:20.980 --> 00:06:21.420
+to Vim and then they started writing,
+
+00:06:22.760 --> 00:06:23.260
+well, they went to NeoVim and they started
+
+00:06:27.620 --> 00:06:27.900
+writing Lua plugins for stuff and it just
+
+00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:29.980
+helped free them and they gained that
+
+00:06:31.320 --> 00:06:31.820
+ownership in their text editor.
+
+00:06:37.520 --> 00:06:37.660
+So I try to have them think through what are
+
+00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:40.440
+the common tasks that they're trying to
+
+00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:44.440
+accomplish and then thinking in terms of
+
+00:06:46.320 --> 00:06:46.480
+that. So instead of going and finding a
+
+00:06:48.340 --> 00:06:48.560
+solution, understand the problems they're
+
+00:06:52.180 --> 00:06:52.320
+experiencing, which tends to be what we
+
+00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:53.860
+should do in software development.
+
+00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:58.220
+Instead of implementing the solve a problem.
+
+00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:02.500
+Sometimes It's fun to implement an idea.
+
+00:07:04.840 --> 00:07:05.220
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I think it's really the crux,
+
+00:07:06.740 --> 00:07:07.120
+really, when it comes to software
+
+00:07:08.760 --> 00:07:09.060
+development, because what is at the crux of
+
+00:07:09.520 --> 00:07:09.960
+any kind of engineering?
+
+00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:11.840
+Well, it's the problem you're trying to
+
+00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:13.680
+solve. If you've got 2 islands and you need
+
+00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:14.860
+to join them up together,
+
+00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:16.340
+well, I need to build a bridge.
+
+00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:17.660
+Now, obviously with software,
+
+00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:19.940
+we have problems that defy the law of
+
+00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:21.840
+physics, which is great because we get very
+
+00:07:23.520 --> 00:07:23.720
+complex problems that are very exciting to
+
+00:07:26.380 --> 00:07:26.880
+solve. But when it comes to onboarding people
+
+00:07:28.180 --> 00:07:28.680
+into those ways of solving problems,
+
+00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:30.040
+well, I think mentoring,
+
+00:07:32.980 --> 00:07:33.480
+The key behind mentoring is that together,
+
+00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:35.460
+we're going to look at a problem and we're
+
+00:07:37.200 --> 00:07:37.680
+going to try to see how high would fix it.
+
+00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:40.740
+And you're going to try to appreciate whether
+
+00:07:42.280 --> 00:07:42.440
+this is something you would do as well or
+
+00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:43.760
+would like to do.
+
+00:07:50.080 --> 00:07:50.580
+[Speaker 1]: Yep, Absolutely. Yeah,
+
+00:07:54.340 --> 00:07:54.480
+it's really taking time to walk with them on
+
+00:07:56.500 --> 00:07:57.000
+the journey to understand what's frustrating
+
+00:07:59.700 --> 00:08:00.040
+them. I have a coworker we've been working
+
+00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:01.740
+together for a very long time.
+
+00:08:05.280 --> 00:08:05.780
+She is not a fast navigator of her editor,
+
+00:08:08.860 --> 00:08:09.200
+but as we've talked, that's not where she's
+
+00:08:09.960 --> 00:08:10.460
+looking to get better.
+
+00:08:17.380 --> 00:08:17.680
+She's looking to get better at asking the
+
+00:08:20.500 --> 00:08:20.740
+questions of the clients early so that we
+
+00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:23.660
+don't go down long paths of implementation.
+
+00:08:27.940 --> 00:08:28.320
+So it's been great because she's not looking
+
+00:08:29.820 --> 00:08:30.060
+to get better at her text editor.
+
+00:08:32.500 --> 00:08:33.000
+She's adequate for how she navigates.
+
+00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:34.900
+Other people look and they're like,
+
+00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:36.179
+man, I want to do it faster.
+
+00:08:36.820 --> 00:08:37.120
+I want to do it different.
+
+00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:38.340
+I want to do it better.
+
+00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:39.980
+And then we have a different conversation.
+
+00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:44.720
+[Speaker 0]: Right. All right. Moving on to the next
+
+00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:47.320
+question. I've been using Emacs for about 30
+
+00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:49.240
+years and I find it really difficult to
+
+00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:51.200
+figure out how to help people get started
+
+00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:54.600
+with it So I guess my question is the same as
+
+00:08:55.680 --> 00:08:55.900
+the green question right about it.
+
+00:08:57.900 --> 00:08:58.100
+I think it's slightly different though You
+
+00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:01.360
+could it is more about well go on please.
+
+00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:02.000
+Yeah
+
+00:09:06.900 --> 00:09:07.400
+[Speaker 1]: so My wife a while ago,
+
+00:09:10.680 --> 00:09:11.180
+talked about the idea of,
+
+00:09:15.860 --> 00:09:16.260
+relative to anybody, I am an expert or
+
+00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:19.200
+slightly more informed on a topic than the
+
+00:09:20.380 --> 00:09:20.880
+person quote behind me.
+
+00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:22.600
+And there's a person ahead of me who's
+
+00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:24.740
+slightly more informed than I am.
+
+00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:28.120
+And so what we're looking at is perhaps with
+
+00:09:28.820 --> 00:09:29.320
+30 years of experience,
+
+00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:32.780
+introducing someone to Emacs might be
+
+00:09:35.780 --> 00:09:35.920
+difficult because you've you're too much of
+
+00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:41.320
+an expert. So maybe the there's a an idea of
+
+00:09:42.380 --> 00:09:42.880
+like what are the principles of pedagogy.
+
+00:09:45.180 --> 00:09:45.360
+I know we that was talked about yesterday in
+
+00:09:47.180 --> 00:09:47.300
+a presentation about like here's a
+
+00:09:49.160 --> 00:09:49.280
+constraint, you're using Emacs for the
+
+00:09:54.660 --> 00:09:54.880
+course. But so it's that idea of sharing what
+
+00:09:56.880 --> 00:09:57.380
+you have, where you're at,
+
+00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:00.720
+will, I think by nature,
+
+00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:03.860
+move the entire queue of people,
+
+00:10:04.940 --> 00:10:05.380
+like they don't really exist.
+
+00:10:06.380 --> 00:10:06.680
+I mean, they do, but they don't.
+
+00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:09.100
+Behind you, it'll help move them together
+
+00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.820
+forward just a little bit.
+
+00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:13.940
+And maybe we all move the condition together.
+
+00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:18.240
+So It's not a only 1 person kind of thing.
+
+00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:22.540
+It's a mindset of improving shared
+
+00:10:22.540 --> 00:10:23.040
+understanding.
+
+00:10:26.520 --> 00:10:26.640
+[Speaker 0]: Exactly, and I'd like to come back on
+
+00:10:28.180 --> 00:10:28.680
+something that you mentioned in your answer,
+
+00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:31.440
+because it's, you know,
+
+00:10:33.060 --> 00:10:33.460
+what the person asking the question
+
+00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:35.740
+mentioned, 30 years of advance,
+
+00:10:36.620 --> 00:10:36.860
+basically, on starting Emacs.
+
+00:10:37.900 --> 00:10:38.400
+You know, that's a lot of time,
+
+00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:41.020
+And you tend to equate this to a massive gap
+
+00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:42.940
+in terms of skills between the 2 people.
+
+00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:47.840
+And whilst it's obvious that would be a gap
+
+00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:50.460
+of skills. You know, I find that learning in
+
+00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:55.460
+terms of pedagogy works best when the person
+
+00:10:58.180 --> 00:10:58.320
+doing the teaching is very close in terms of
+
+00:11:00.380 --> 00:11:00.880
+skill levels to the person being taught.
+
+00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:03.120
+Why is it the case? It's because it's much
+
+00:11:05.660 --> 00:11:05.800
+fresher in their memory what are the
+
+00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:08.300
+different elements that they have to go
+
+00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:09.940
+through to acquire a particular skill.
+
+00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:12.940
+To go a little bit into the theory,
+
+00:11:14.640 --> 00:11:15.060
+I'm not sure if you're familiar with Vygotsky
+
+00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:16.860
+or at least the I plus 1.
+
+00:11:17.640 --> 00:11:17.860
+Are you familiar with this,
+
+00:11:20.540 --> 00:11:21.040
+[Speaker 1]: I am not, go on.
+
+00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:23.000
+[Speaker 0]: Jeremy? So I used to be a teacher before,
+
+00:11:24.520 --> 00:11:24.960
+and it's 1 of the things they taught us.
+
+00:11:26.920 --> 00:11:27.340
+It's about the fact that when you are trying
+
+00:11:28.900 --> 00:11:29.400
+to make someone acquire a skill,
+
+00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:32.340
+I represents the current knowledge,
+
+00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:35.160
+and plus 1 is the thing that you should be
+
+00:11:38.920 --> 00:11:39.060
+teaching them and the theory behind it is
+
+00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:42.040
+that it's much easier to teach someone to
+
+00:11:44.260 --> 00:11:44.500
+teach something to someone when they only
+
+00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:46.460
+have to focus on plus 1 i.e.
+
+00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:48.900
+Something that is very close nearby to them
+
+00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:50.840
+If you go with something that is I plus 2,
+
+00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:53.740
+I plus 3, or god forbid I plus 10,
+
+00:11:55.760 --> 00:11:55.960
+it's going to be much harder for them to get
+
+00:11:58.100 --> 00:11:58.360
+to the understanding because the distance is
+
+00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:01.960
+much greater. And that's why I think
+
+00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:05.320
+mentoring can be taken in 2 ways.
+
+00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:07.860
+It could be a mentor who's merely ahead of
+
+00:12:10.380 --> 00:12:10.760
+you by plus 1, or it could be a mentor that
+
+00:12:12.040 --> 00:12:12.440
+is ahead of you by plus 10,
+
+00:12:14.380 --> 00:12:14.640
+but who has the understanding of what plus 1,
+
+00:12:15.800 --> 00:12:16.300
+plus 2, and plus 3 is.
+
+00:12:22.680 --> 00:12:23.160
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, and it can be very challenging to
+
+00:12:27.400 --> 00:12:27.540
+unwind that. I know if we think about all of
+
+00:12:33.540 --> 00:12:33.740
+our hands or input methods have a memory of
+
+00:12:35.920 --> 00:12:36.120
+something that I honestly couldn't tell you
+
+00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:38.940
+what it is. Right? Like,
+
+00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:40.740
+I know how to do it on a keyboard,
+
+00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:43.980
+right? We've internalized so much.
+
+00:12:47.900 --> 00:12:48.040
+And so, yeah, how to walk backward is a
+
+00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:52.200
+distinct challenge and being curious with
+
+00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:56.100
+them and close to them and not asking,
+
+00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:00.800
+trying to diffuse questions and not ask like
+
+00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:03.620
+leading, not overly leading.
+
+00:13:09.280 --> 00:13:09.780
+An example, early on in my mentoring career,
+
+00:13:11.260 --> 00:13:11.760
+I was working in a community project,
+
+00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:14.480
+and I really wanted to go in and say to
+
+00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:18.500
+everybody, why do we suck at sharing code?
+
+00:13:21.020 --> 00:13:21.520
+But instead I said, wait a minute,
+
+00:13:24.880 --> 00:13:25.080
+what would be the question I could ask the
+
+00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:28.180
+group in which I could then ask my question?
+
+00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:30.720
+So instead I went into the group and I said,
+
+00:13:32.560 --> 00:13:33.060
+how are we doing about sharing code?
+
+00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:37.620
+And collectively, we were able to establish
+
+00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:39.700
+we didn't feel very good about it.
+
+00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:43.240
+And that conversation now 9 years ago,
+
+00:13:47.020 --> 00:13:47.300
+helped move a process along for the last,
+
+00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:50.380
+like it gave it energy for 9 years of how
+
+00:13:51.560 --> 00:13:52.060
+we're sharing and how we're approaching
+
+00:13:58.260 --> 00:13:58.760
+stuff. So yeah, the curious questions are
+
+00:14:00.060 --> 00:14:00.560
+super helpful.
+
+00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:04.940
+[Speaker 0]: All right, lovely way to finish this point.
+
+00:14:06.940 --> 00:14:07.200
+We have about 10 more minutes so I'm glad
+
+00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:08.800
+that we have a little bit of extra time to
+
+00:14:10.640 --> 00:14:10.920
+answer the questions because we have a little
+
+00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:13.940
+more. All right, I'm gonna switch to the next
+
+00:14:15.160 --> 00:14:15.480
+question we can come back to people reacting
+
+00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:17.220
+to what you just said a little bit later.
+
+00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:17.640
+[Speaker 2]: Sure.
+
+00:14:20.640 --> 00:14:20.860
+[Speaker 0]: All right, have you encountered anyone that
+
+00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:24.000
+are being negative about the fact that you're
+
+00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:26.600
+using Emacs, assuming that they just don't
+
+00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:28.940
+know or have misconceptions about Emacs and
+
+00:14:30.340 --> 00:14:30.700
+nothing malicious? If so,
+
+00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:32.720
+how do you handle these kinds of people?
+
+00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:40.840
+[Speaker 1]: Sure, So at work, I get a gentle elbowing of
+
+00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:43.220
+like, oh, Jeremy's going to talk about Emacs
+
+00:14:45.900 --> 00:14:46.400
+again. So it's not entirely...
+
+00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:51.100
+Maybe it's a little dismissive,
+
+00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:57.340
+but I don't actually care because like it's
+
+00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:00.240
+like being, I don't know,
+
+00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:02.480
+it's like being made fun of for using a
+
+00:15:03.560 --> 00:15:04.060
+particular type of pen.
+
+00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:06.180
+Like goal is to write something,
+
+00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:09.580
+right? And I'm using a pen that gives me joy.
+
+00:15:11.740 --> 00:15:12.240
+When I talk with my mentees,
+
+00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:14.440
+like I want to meet them exactly where
+
+00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:17.200
+they're at with their code and like what
+
+00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:21.260
+they're comfortable with and help them remove
+
+00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:23.600
+any of that potential like inadequacy,
+
+00:15:27.800 --> 00:15:27.980
+sense of inadequacy or imposter syndrome or
+
+00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:33.480
+any of those things because The goal is to,
+
+00:15:36.380 --> 00:15:36.880
+for me, to be better at computering.
+
+00:15:39.800 --> 00:15:40.300
+Like hop on my computer.
+
+00:15:45.060 --> 00:15:45.220
+I want to be able to use it at a speed of
+
+00:15:47.680 --> 00:15:47.800
+thought that doesn't introduce a lot of
+
+00:15:50.660 --> 00:15:51.160
+friction. Another speaker talked about that
+
+00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:54.200
+using HyperBowl and a couple of plugins to
+
+00:15:55.260 --> 00:15:55.760
+write stream of consciousness.
+
+00:15:57.980 --> 00:15:58.480
+And that was an important consideration.
+
+00:16:01.060 --> 00:16:01.380
+I want my text editor to flow with me.
+
+00:16:02.160 --> 00:16:02.420
+And so I'm like, well,
+
+00:16:03.560 --> 00:16:04.060
+Emacs flows with me smooth.
+
+00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:08.720
+Like you can deride it all you want.
+
+00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:10.360
+It doesn't thread very well,
+
+00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:12.580
+but it's just me on this machine.
+
+00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:14.440
+I don't need it to overly thread,
+
+00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:16.220
+at least for my use cases.
+
+00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:22.600
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I can only agree 100% with what you've
+
+00:16:25.800 --> 00:16:26.300
+just said. And it's very easy to dismiss
+
+00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:29.160
+stuff like Vim or Emacs based on the very
+
+00:16:31.260 --> 00:16:31.760
+trite sentences that everyone use.
+
+00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:32.640
+But at the end of the day,
+
+00:16:33.540 --> 00:16:34.040
+I really like what you said.
+
+00:16:36.280 --> 00:16:36.780
+Those are just pencil that we're using to
+
+00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:39.280
+express ourselves. And we're doing something
+
+00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:42.080
+a little more fancy than just writing words
+
+00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.180
+on a page. But ultimately,
+
+00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.880
+It's just text at the very bottom.
+
+00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:49.060
+So whatever helps us write this test,
+
+00:16:50.540 --> 00:16:51.040
+this text more easily,
+
+00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:53.460
+you know, it's always good.
+
+00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:56.980
+Yeah. All right. Moving on to the next
+
+00:16:59.360 --> 00:16:59.820
+question. I love the attitudes and worldview
+
+00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:03.160
+that infuse your blog post and your talk this
+
+00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:05.900
+weekend. Learn something every week.
+
+00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:08.680
+It's cumulative. English class was the most
+
+00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:11.520
+important. What other advice do you have and
+
+00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:13.859
+how is it generalizable to those of us who
+
+00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:14.940
+are not devs?
+
+00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:26.780
+[Speaker 1]: Sure. So I think 1 of the really big changes
+
+00:17:29.140 --> 00:17:29.320
+for me, and I talked about this in the
+
+00:17:34.700 --> 00:17:35.200
+writing Q&A, is switching my blog from a
+
+00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:38.480
+topical 1 about role-playing games and board
+
+00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:43.480
+games into anything that I think I want to
+
+00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:47.440
+write. And that shift happened about the time
+
+00:17:50.380 --> 00:17:50.560
+that I was really exploring using Emacs for
+
+00:17:54.060 --> 00:17:54.560
+writing. And so previously I had,
+
+00:17:57.860 --> 00:17:58.360
+I would write blog posts in Markdown using,
+
+00:18:00.560 --> 00:18:01.060
+or I would write it in the web interface.
+
+00:18:06.820 --> 00:18:07.060
+And getting to the point where my writing was
+
+00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:08.980
+the same as my coding,
+
+00:18:12.040 --> 00:18:12.540
+was the same as my RSS consumption,
+
+00:18:15.060 --> 00:18:15.560
+was the same of a lot of these things,
+
+00:18:21.260 --> 00:18:21.560
+freed up my general interests so that they
+
+00:18:23.860 --> 00:18:24.360
+all can kind of play in that space.
+
+00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:27.940
+So and that's the, I think,
+
+00:18:33.080 --> 00:18:33.540
+Feynman said, like, his notes are his
+
+00:18:35.860 --> 00:18:36.360
+thoughts. It's not him thinking,
+
+00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:38.980
+I mean, they are him thinking as well.
+
+00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:41.180
+So it's really framing it that way.
+
+00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:44.680
+And then for not devs,
+
+00:18:49.060 --> 00:18:49.240
+My daughter has been doing screenwriting and
+
+00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:53.480
+she just had her school license for the tool
+
+00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:55.220
+that they use for writing screenplays.
+
+00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:57.660
+She had to pay for it on her own.
+
+00:18:59.540 --> 00:18:59.680
+And I was like, hey, let's take a look at
+
+00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:01.500
+Emacs. There's a package for this.
+
+00:19:03.320 --> 00:19:03.820
+Maybe it makes sense to you.
+
+00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:09.720
+So I think the, really to summarize it is
+
+00:19:12.280 --> 00:19:12.780
+like the broad curiosity in like,
+
+00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:14.820
+I have a liberal arts degree,
+
+00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:21.420
+I have barely any computer science classwork
+
+00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:24.400
+practice. I have a lot of practical
+
+00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:26.700
+experience doing software development,
+
+00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:28.820
+but theory is minimal.
+
+00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:32.520
+Instead, I look to things like Lord of the
+
+00:19:35.340 --> 00:19:35.840
+Rings or role-playing games or poetry or
+
+00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:41.020
+history or whatever and be curious and Then
+
+00:19:47.260 --> 00:19:47.760
+be playful The introduction of git locally
+
+00:19:51.060 --> 00:19:51.340
+where I can just have a Git repo means my
+
+00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:57.340
+text is recoverable. I don't,
+
+00:19:59.060 --> 00:19:59.320
+I can play. I'll just break it,
+
+00:20:00.320 --> 00:20:00.800
+I'll change it. It's software,
+
+00:20:02.860 --> 00:20:03.360
+let it be soft. It's not hard.
+
+00:20:05.740 --> 00:20:06.100
+It can be hard to work with it,
+
+00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:08.520
+but let it be soft. Let it be pruned,
+
+00:20:09.780 --> 00:20:10.120
+let it go away, let it die,
+
+00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:11.700
+let it come back.
+
+00:20:16.360 --> 00:20:16.800
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, That's a lovely attitude to have.
+
+00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:21.160
+I mean, I've already talked about my past as
+
+00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:23.860
+an English major in 1 of the EmacsConf talks,
+
+00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:26.780
+but just like you, I don't have a comp sci
+
+00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:30.200
+education. I just started with needing a
+
+00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:32.620
+better pen, and that was about 10 years ago.
+
+00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:37.020
+And now I find myself hosting Emacs Cons,
+
+00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:39.140
+but it was a very incremental process,
+
+00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:40.660
+a very cumulative process,
+
+00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:43.220
+to reuse the word that we used before.
+
+00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:48.740
+And What I also like about people outside of
+
+00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:50.140
+CompSight using Emacs,
+
+00:20:53.300 --> 00:20:53.480
+and we've got plenty of such examples in the
+
+00:20:54.940 --> 00:20:55.320
+presentations we've had this year,
+
+00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:57.940
+but also last year, is that you get so many
+
+00:21:00.540 --> 00:21:00.920
+different windows into how people are using
+
+00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:03.480
+Emacs, and it kind of harks back to what I
+
+00:21:06.340 --> 00:21:06.560
+was saying before about Emacs being a
+
+00:21:08.380 --> 00:21:08.880
+platform with many horizontal packages
+
+00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:11.060
+permitting any kind of workflow imaginable
+
+00:21:13.580 --> 00:21:14.080
+and some people are going to gravitate
+
+00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:16.640
+towards old mode. I think it was your sister
+
+00:21:18.520 --> 00:21:19.020
+that you mentioned that was looking into
+
+00:21:20.760 --> 00:21:21.260
+packages for writing screenplays.
+
+00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:23.520
+Well, we've got such a thing in Emacs.
+
+00:21:26.260 --> 00:21:26.760
+I mean, a screenplay is just a monospace font
+
+00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:28.400
+with some fancy formatting.
+
+00:21:29.300 --> 00:21:29.800
+It's not very complicated.
+
+00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:32.960
+And if you can get behind,
+
+00:21:36.280 --> 00:21:36.720
+you know, someone using such a stable format
+
+00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:38.940
+for writing screenplay with many rules,
+
+00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:40.840
+but ultimately all the screenplay look the
+
+00:21:42.520 --> 00:21:42.780
+same, well, Emacs is kind of just the same.
+
+00:21:45.060 --> 00:21:45.480
+It's about standardizing the way you edit
+
+00:21:47.760 --> 00:21:48.000
+text. So I think your sister was already half
+
+00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:51.760
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it was my it was my my daughter.
+
+00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:52.840
+I'm trying to sell her on.
+
+00:21:53.320 --> 00:21:53.800
+[Speaker 0]: on the idea. Oh, no, sorry.
+
+00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:56.640
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, she also picked up programming just 1
+
+00:21:58.140 --> 00:21:58.640
+day and was like, I forget that.
+
+00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:01.860
+Like she was playing with a stage manager
+
+00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:03.580
+programming thing or like have a little
+
+00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:05.140
+avatars moving around.
+
+00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:11.480
+And so she's got a predisposition to like the
+
+00:22:15.620 --> 00:22:16.020
+craft of things. And I think that's another
+
+00:22:18.320 --> 00:22:18.820
+aspect is like, I'm not,
+
+00:22:21.080 --> 00:22:21.580
+I mean, I appreciate science.
+
+00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:23.540
+I'm here for a scientific approach,
+
+00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:28.440
+but I also Really enjoy the craft of things
+
+00:22:32.500 --> 00:22:33.000
+Playing with it Like this is my playground.
+
+00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:36.180
+I love kind of hacking on it and looking at
+
+00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:39.360
+packages and Seeing how I might use it pick
+
+00:22:42.120 --> 00:22:42.340
+it up for a little bit and then maybe I
+
+00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:43.380
+forget about it
+
+00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:48.440
+[Speaker 0]: Right, well Jeremy I think that was Lovely
+
+00:22:49.860 --> 00:22:50.180
+finish. Oh, sorry plasma.
+
+00:22:51.380 --> 00:22:51.760
+Oh, sorry. I thought he was someone on Mumble
+
+00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:54.780
+talking to me. I'm actually going to have to
+
+00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:56.600
+be sorry because we only have about 50
+
+00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:58.320
+seconds until we move on to the next talk.
+
+00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:00.040
+But please, Plasma Strike,
+
+00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:01.560
+If you want to ask your question to Jeremy,
+
+00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:03.220
+by all means, stay in the room.
+
+00:23:04.120 --> 00:23:04.620
+[Speaker 1]: Yep, I'll be here.
+
+00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:07.900
+[Speaker 0]: And we'll be recording all of this and we'll
+
+00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:09.940
+put this later on the talk page.
+
+00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:12.560
+So Jeremy, I'll have to say bye now because I
+
+00:23:13.660 --> 00:23:14.160
+need to prepare the next room.
+
+00:23:16.320 --> 00:23:16.440
+But It was lovely talking with you and thank
+
+00:23:17.040 --> 00:23:17.540
+you for all your answers.
+
+00:23:19.040 --> 00:23:19.540
+[Speaker 1]: Absolutely. Thank you.
+
+00:23:21.220 --> 00:23:21.720
+[Speaker 0]: Bye-bye. Bye.
+
+NOTE Start of section to review
+
+00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:26.580
+[Speaker 2]: See you. Hello. One of the things with Emacs is
+
+00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:28.900
+it's not... It's like when you change the
+
+00:23:30.860 --> 00:23:31.260
+file management, you just change very,
+
+00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:33.980
+very small amounts of what exactly you need,
+
+00:23:38.040 --> 00:23:38.360
+you want to change. Like you go from text
+
+00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:43.860
+editing to your file manager,
+
+00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:45.220
+you're not changing your theme,
+
+00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:47.180
+you're not changing your font.
+
+00:23:49.940 --> 00:23:50.060
+[Speaker 3]: And you
+
+00:23:52.360 --> 00:23:52.500
+[Speaker 2]: use your bookmarks, you use your bookmarks in
+
+00:23:54.340 --> 00:23:54.840
+your emails, you use your bookmarks in your
+
+00:23:59.380 --> 00:23:59.880
+org-mod documents, you use it in E-dub,
+
+00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:02.960
+W-W buffers if you use that,
+
+00:24:06.760 --> 00:24:06.940
+but it's just the, Yeah,
+
+00:24:10.080 --> 00:24:10.580
+it's just the least amount of Incremental
+
+00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:11.440
+changes
+
+00:24:14.620 --> 00:24:14.900
+[Speaker 1]: yeah, you're when you were talking about like
+
+00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:18.980
+the Reducing friction like turn off editing
+
+00:24:22.280 --> 00:24:22.480
+or not editing, but auto correct while you're
+
+00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:25.940
+typing, it's absolutely spot on.
+
+00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:30.300
+You're wanting to get whatever is flowing
+
+00:24:31.280 --> 00:24:31.720
+needs to keep flowing,
+
+00:24:33.700 --> 00:24:34.200
+like as a programmer or as a creative,
+
+00:24:38.100 --> 00:24:38.600
+anytime I can hit flow is my goal.
+
+00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:42.740
+And so paying attention to what removes flow
+
+00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:48.980
+or hinders it or saps energy and that unified
+
+00:24:52.800 --> 00:24:53.080
+environment of Emacs is really helpful to
+
+00:24:57.260 --> 00:24:57.760
+maintain that. So yeah.
+
+00:25:02.300 --> 00:25:02.580
+[Speaker 2]: I think it's about speed and then once after
+
+00:25:04.040 --> 00:25:04.540
+you get some of that, then you're like,
+
+00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:06.920
+well, yeah, it's important,
+
+00:25:09.320 --> 00:25:09.820
+but this is like the last thing I care about.
+
+00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:14.780
+[Speaker 1]: Right. Speed is all like,
+
+00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:20.200
+Yeah, there's a quote that I love called,
+
+00:25:22.940 --> 00:25:23.440
+I forget the author. It's,
+
+00:25:30.060 --> 00:25:30.260
+there is a connection between slowness and
+
+00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:34.460
+remembering and fastness and forgetting.
+
+00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:40.180
+And the slowness is an interesting,
+
+00:25:43.520 --> 00:25:43.840
+like it's, I am moving fast in Emacs because
+
+00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:46.520
+I've forgotten how I'm doing it.
+
+00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:48.420
+I just do it now, right?
+
+00:25:52.120 --> 00:25:52.360
+And then the slowness of like being in my
+
+00:25:57.540 --> 00:25:57.720
+thought and staying on that stream is where I
+
+00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:02.200
+want to be and ride whatever that pathway is.
+
+00:26:07.540 --> 00:26:07.680
+And a text editor is still hard to do that
+
+00:26:10.260 --> 00:26:10.520
+because if I were using a pen and paper it's
+
+00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:12.100
+more cumbersome to auto-edit.
+
+00:26:18.620 --> 00:26:18.800
+But I can't get it out without losing my
+
+00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:21.440
+thinking. And so I ended up having to type
+
+00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:21.940
+it.
+
+00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:25.640
+[Speaker 3]: Something I've been experimenting with is
+
+00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:27.100
+using, well, recording.
+
+00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:29.700
+Some other people are using dictation for
+
+00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:32.260
+this to just get the blur out of the ideas
+
+00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:35.500
+and you can go back and glean some of that
+
+00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:36.700
+stuff out of it.
+
+00:26:41.320 --> 00:26:41.680
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, what I will do when I'm capturing like
+
+00:26:44.760 --> 00:26:45.260
+quotes or epigraphs is I will almost always
+
+00:26:47.760 --> 00:26:47.960
+turn on dictation because I got a book in 1
+
+00:26:52.020 --> 00:26:52.520
+hand. So I'm like, on goes the typing.
+
+00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:56.940
+And yeah, that is, there's a,
+
+00:26:59.900 --> 00:27:00.180
+I'm really thankful that that exists as well.
+
+00:27:01.260 --> 00:27:01.760
+Like my mother is blind.
+
+00:27:05.020 --> 00:27:05.520
+And so having that helps her and me
+
+00:27:08.560 --> 00:27:09.060
+communicate Through text because we're both
+
+00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:13.400
+able to appreciate it And use it in a way
+
+00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:15.980
+that is accessible for both of us
+
+00:27:19.120 --> 00:27:19.620
+[Speaker 3]: Go ahead
+
+00:27:23.100 --> 00:27:23.600
+[Speaker 2]: There's the L feet to package which will
+
+00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:25.200
+which will allow you to both of us.
+
+00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:25.440
+There's the ElfieTube package which will
+
+00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:28.820
+allow you to subscribe to a YouTube channel
+
+00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:33.000
+and then download the subtitles and give you
+
+00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:36.940
+remote control access to the MPV player to
+
+00:27:37.700 --> 00:27:38.200
+watch the YouTube thing.
+
+00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:41.920
+And considering you have a really big
+
+00:27:44.580 --> 00:27:44.680
+subtitle thing that you can click at the
+
+00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:45.660
+various different places,
+
+00:27:47.860 --> 00:27:48.280
+it's really surprising about how different
+
+00:27:49.300 --> 00:27:49.800
+that makes YouTube feel.
+
+00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:51.180
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah I've...
+
+00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:54.340
+[Speaker 2]: And then on top of that about how much like
+
+00:27:57.660 --> 00:27:57.800
+if you've used it why would you never have
+
+00:27:59.160 --> 00:27:59.660
+thought about that before because it's...
+
+00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:01.220
+Right. It's even better.
+
+00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:05.340
+[Speaker 1]: Right absolutely. Sasha?
+
+00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:10.440
+[Speaker 3]: Oh I would say I do use the caption slot also
+
+00:28:11.580 --> 00:28:12.040
+when I'm skimming through stuff for Emacs
+
+00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:14.240
+News. But for books specifically,
+
+00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:18.600
+I often use Google Lens to just capture the
+
+00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:22.200
+text and copy it so that I don't have to deal
+
+00:28:24.140 --> 00:28:24.640
+with recognition errors or whatever.
+
+00:28:25.760 --> 00:28:26.260
+really useful.
+
+00:28:31.780 --> 00:28:32.280
+[Speaker 1]: It's just So 1 of my hobbies is role-playing
+
+00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:36.100
+games and the tabular data that is in the
+
+00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:39.440
+role-playing books is never in correct,
+
+00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:43.380
+like copy it out. And so I was like this is
+
+00:28:46.260 --> 00:28:46.680
+really annoying And I ended up taking
+
+00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:48.220
+screenshots on my machine,
+
+00:28:50.280 --> 00:28:50.780
+running Tesseract to pipe it in,
+
+00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:53.980
+and then using Emacs to like edit it because
+
+00:28:57.940 --> 00:28:58.100
+Tesseract adheres to the column format that
+
+00:29:00.520 --> 00:29:00.680
+I'm looking for. And I'm really thankful that
+
+00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:06.100
+we're at a place where the OCR is in good
+
+00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:10.120
+shape. That's part of my day job is working
+
+00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:14.680
+on some old documents that OCR is good,
+
+00:29:18.100 --> 00:29:18.600
+but not great because of like their 19th
+
+00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:23.920
+century documents, but having that ability to
+
+00:29:28.080 --> 00:29:28.220
+me is really powerful because we're gonna be
+
+00:29:32.580 --> 00:29:32.900
+able to share that text And also then once
+
+00:29:35.860 --> 00:29:36.360
+it's understood in what it's ASCII or UTF-8
+
+00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:39.500
+encoding is, it can be translated as well.
+
+00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:42.460
+So we can make it even more generally
+
+00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:46.720
+available, which I think is a nice thing to
+
+00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:47.220
+have.
+
+00:29:51.820 --> 00:29:52.320
+[Speaker 3]: I wanted to go back to the topic of mentoring
+
+00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:54.240
+since that's something that I'm very much
+
+00:29:55.940 --> 00:29:56.400
+interested in figuring out how to facilitate
+
+00:29:56.980 --> 00:29:57.480
+in the Emacs community.
+
+00:30:00.520 --> 00:30:00.720
+Other people have been working on kind of
+
+00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:03.900
+remote mentoring initiatives with Emacs
+
+00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:07.860
+Buddy. And there are meetups as well that
+
+00:30:09.140 --> 00:30:09.340
+kind of get that sense of like,
+
+00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:10.840
+you know, what people are doing things and
+
+00:30:12.040 --> 00:30:12.500
+then somebody can look over their shoulder
+
+00:30:14.060 --> 00:30:14.260
+and say, hey, have you ever thought about
+
+00:30:15.060 --> 00:30:15.560
+[Speaker 1]: Right.
+
+00:30:17.780 --> 00:30:18.040
+[Speaker 3]: this? Is there any things that you can can
+
+00:30:20.320 --> 00:30:20.820
+suggest specifically in the context of this
+
+00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:23.680
+kind of mentoring over a distance?
+
+00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:26.180
+Any chance you've thought about it?
+
+00:30:30.800 --> 00:30:30.920
+[Speaker 1]: I'm on the Emacs buddy repo and I've had a
+
+00:30:32.600 --> 00:30:33.100
+handful of people reach out to me.
+
+00:30:37.700 --> 00:30:37.920
+Most often we start with email and every so
+
+00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:39.320
+often it'll be like, hey,
+
+00:30:44.340 --> 00:30:44.840
+let's hop on some kind of video or audio,
+
+00:30:47.320 --> 00:30:47.820
+even just done phone calls.
+
+00:30:53.140 --> 00:30:53.480
+Yeah, I haven't done any of the like shared
+
+00:30:57.220 --> 00:30:57.500
+buffer stuff. I know like at work we have
+
+00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:00.200
+replit where we can use that.
+
+00:31:02.500 --> 00:31:03.000
+Seeing the presentation on CDRT,
+
+00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:04.940
+I was like, oh, that's really great.
+
+00:31:10.760 --> 00:31:11.140
+But what I found is being able to see
+
+00:31:15.280 --> 00:31:15.720
+someone, I don't get to see them typing,
+
+00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:17.840
+but I get to see the results of what they're
+
+00:31:18.840 --> 00:31:19.340
+doing on the computer.
+
+00:31:22.840 --> 00:31:23.040
+You know paying attention to that is the big
+
+00:31:26.040 --> 00:31:26.540
+1 to help them think of a different way.
+
+00:31:28.940 --> 00:31:29.160
+Depending on where they're at when they're
+
+00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:33.460
+writing if they are like at a pause point,
+
+00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:35.460
+if I'm at my best, I'll be like,
+
+00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:38.360
+so what are you thinking?
+
+00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:41.140
+Where are you stuck? Cause maybe they're
+
+00:31:43.040 --> 00:31:43.280
+trying to navigate somewhere and that starts
+
+00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:46.720
+to create a point for a conversation of like,
+
+00:31:48.280 --> 00:31:48.780
+how do I go from here to there?
+
+00:31:57.340 --> 00:31:57.520
+And so it's looking for those moments is
+
+00:31:58.840 --> 00:31:59.340
+where I try to operate.
+
+00:32:03.740 --> 00:32:04.240
+[Speaker 3]: And sometimes, you know,
+
+00:32:05.380 --> 00:32:05.600
+so there's kind of like,
+
+00:32:06.760 --> 00:32:07.120
+how do you go from here to there?
+
+00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:08.500
+And sometimes even the,
+
+00:32:12.380 --> 00:32:12.540
+what there should I be going for is a
+
+00:32:15.060 --> 00:32:15.160
+challenge, right? Because especially with
+
+00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:16.980
+Emacs newbies, they might not necessarily
+
+00:32:19.340 --> 00:32:19.540
+know what's possible or what's nearby in
+
+00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:21.700
+terms of what their current knowledge is.
+
+00:32:23.760 --> 00:32:24.120
+And that's an interesting thing to map out.
+
+00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:26.400
+Is that something that you've thought about
+
+00:32:29.020 --> 00:32:29.280
+and as you're conversing with all these
+
+00:32:29.280 --> 00:32:29.780
+people?
+
+00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:37.840
+[Speaker 1]: The main thing, the main function that I do
+
+00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:38.940
+talk, I talked about this,
+
+00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:41.740
+I think in the, I did in the talk where it's,
+
+00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:46.660
+I need to jump between the test and the
+
+00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:51.400
+implementation. And since 2005,
+
+00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:56.480
+I've had that. And I watch folks not have
+
+00:32:57.880 --> 00:32:58.100
+that. I'm just like, Oh,
+
+00:33:00.380 --> 00:33:00.540
+my goodness, like there's a convention in the
+
+00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:02.720
+language we work in. Let's get that
+
+00:33:04.080 --> 00:33:04.580
+installed. Let's get it going.
+
+00:33:07.600 --> 00:33:07.840
+Like that's 1 thing, that's 1 access I know
+
+00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:11.880
+they're gonna go to. Another 1 is the jump to
+
+00:33:14.280 --> 00:33:14.600
+definition. And I've never gotten like C
+
+00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:16.960
+tags. I haven't really spent time on that,
+
+00:33:18.600 --> 00:33:19.100
+but with the advent of LSP,
+
+00:33:21.040 --> 00:33:21.540
+it works a lot better.
+
+00:33:24.520 --> 00:33:25.020
+And so I try to get people to use that.
+
+00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:30.640
+And what I've noticed weirdly is like VS
+
+00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:34.400
+code, it doesn't work as well as I would have
+
+00:33:36.340 --> 00:33:36.500
+thought. And there's lots of like errors and
+
+00:33:38.100 --> 00:33:38.560
+warnings popping up in the bottom corner.
+
+00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:41.280
+So I'm like, well, you gotta pay attention to
+
+00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:46.140
+that. But I try not to get into anybody's
+
+00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:48.120
+business about like, I'm like,
+
+00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:49.120
+maybe we could fix that.
+
+00:33:50.020 --> 00:33:50.280
+Maybe we can clean it up,
+
+00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:52.240
+but it's your, you know,
+
+00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:54.940
+it's your car you're driving.
+
+00:33:56.320 --> 00:33:56.760
+I'm just long for a ride.
+
+00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.120
+It's safe, we're fine.
+
+00:34:01.360 --> 00:34:01.860
+So yeah, that jumped to definition.
+
+00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:08.440
+And then the, I mean, search in project,
+
+00:34:10.080 --> 00:34:10.580
+like everybody understanding that.
+
+00:34:15.219 --> 00:34:15.380
+But I feel that the, like I mentioned in the
+
+00:34:17.980 --> 00:34:18.480
+talk, the advent of orderless is just huge.
+
+00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:21.659
+I did not realize how much I loved it because
+
+00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:24.480
+I don't have to think about things and can
+
+00:34:28.080 --> 00:34:28.580
+have slightly more forgiving default
+
+00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:34.840
+searches. Yeah, it's hard.
+
+00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:39.440
+The principles of organizing 10 things versus
+
+00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:41.540
+100 versus 1,000 versus 10,000
+
+00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:44.940
+are just, they're not the same.
+
+00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:52.540
+[Speaker 2]: A common hang up for, that would easily make
+
+00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:54.820
+you skip off of Emacs,
+
+00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:01.040
+Org Mode, Hyperbole is if you go into any of
+
+00:35:03.680 --> 00:35:04.040
+those with the mindset of I'm going to master
+
+00:35:05.080 --> 00:35:05.580
+it all before I use it.
+
+00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:07.140
+That's not going to work.
+
+00:35:13.660 --> 00:35:13.860
+[Speaker 1]: Absolutely. I was terrified of org mode when
+
+00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:15.060
+I started because I'm like,
+
+00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:17.040
+I don't need to organize my life.
+
+00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:20.960
+I need to like type. And then that,
+
+00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.020
+yes, incremental. What did I find helpful?
+
+00:35:28.580 --> 00:35:29.080
+[Speaker 2]: It's for the, for the Linux CLI toolbox,
+
+00:35:30.860 --> 00:35:31.360
+but you have to look at them as more of just,
+
+00:35:34.640 --> 00:35:35.140
+I have a whole bunch of tools available to me
+
+00:35:39.140 --> 00:35:39.360
+and I'll just pick them up as I have a
+
+00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:42.680
+problem and as I, and as the tool can be
+
+00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:44.940
+useful for this problem and incrementally.
+
+00:35:47.700 --> 00:35:48.200
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. It's
+
+00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:55.080
+[Speaker 3]: actually, so, in fact,
+
+00:35:56.180 --> 00:35:56.400
+when when I'm mentoring people,
+
+00:35:58.440 --> 00:35:58.580
+I have to take a step back and say,
+
+00:36:00.520 --> 00:36:00.760
+OK, what are we with the note taking thing
+
+00:36:01.640 --> 00:36:02.140
+that you mentioned in your talk.
+
+00:36:03.120 --> 00:36:03.480
+How do you like to take notes?
+
+00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:05.140
+How do you like to keep track of the things
+
+00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:06.600
+that you want to work on when you have an
+
+00:36:07.540 --> 00:36:08.040
+idea? Where does it go?
+
+00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:10.820
+Because if you improve that practice,
+
+00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:13.180
+and especially if you can sneak some literate
+
+00:36:14.540 --> 00:36:15.040
+programming in without them really noticing,
+
+00:36:17.860 --> 00:36:18.160
+then it becomes the thing that they can use
+
+00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:19.400
+to learn more efficiently.
+
+00:36:23.200 --> 00:36:23.700
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. I was presenting at,
+
+00:36:26.600 --> 00:36:27.100
+I wasn't presenting at this seminar,
+
+00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:30.920
+but I attended it and it was a crash course
+
+00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:32.300
+in command line tools.
+
+00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:36.020
+And I didn't, I mean, I went there to listen
+
+00:36:38.660 --> 00:36:38.800
+and there was a point where the people were
+
+00:36:40.560 --> 00:36:41.060
+like, I use this command line tool.
+
+00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:42.860
+I'm not a programmer, I'm a librarian,
+
+00:36:45.040 --> 00:36:45.060
+I'm an archivist. I use it,
+
+00:36:47.080 --> 00:36:47.580
+I'm like, great, I'm gonna remember this.
+
+00:36:49.640 --> 00:36:49.820
+And then I forget about it and I might use it
+
+00:36:54.340 --> 00:36:54.520
+6 months from now. And so I tried to
+
+00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:57.380
+encourage everybody, like come up with,
+
+00:37:00.580 --> 00:37:00.740
+like you have a degree in knowledge and
+
+00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:02.820
+information, management and organization,
+
+00:37:06.160 --> 00:37:06.660
+introspect, right? Spend some time on it.
+
+00:37:09.740 --> 00:37:10.240
+Think about what is a way that I can do this
+
+00:37:13.180 --> 00:37:13.360
+and ask questions to get to the point where
+
+00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:19.240
+you can create a discoverable inventory of
+
+00:37:22.500 --> 00:37:23.000
+the tools you've used and what that means.
+
+00:37:26.160 --> 00:37:26.660
+And my answer was, I use literate programming
+
+00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:31.300
+or I shove it in my bin directory in GitHub
+
+00:37:34.080 --> 00:37:34.300
+and like, I don't know if I'll remember it,
+
+00:37:35.860 --> 00:37:36.020
+but I can go there every now and then and be
+
+00:37:37.120 --> 00:37:37.620
+like, oh yeah, that command.
+
+00:37:44.220 --> 00:37:44.720
+So note taking is the most critical component
+
+00:37:46.620 --> 00:37:47.120
+of any number of work.
+
+00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:52.360
+[Speaker 3]: Sometimes I wonder if we can maybe
+
+00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:54.500
+externalize some of all this mentoring
+
+00:37:57.520 --> 00:37:57.720
+insight and kind of like this choose your own
+
+00:37:59.700 --> 00:37:59.920
+adventure thing, where the person says,
+
+00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:01.700
+OK, this is what I got at the moment.
+
+00:38:03.460 --> 00:38:03.960
+And then through a series of diagnostic
+
+00:38:05.740 --> 00:38:06.220
+questions, we can figure out what hurts,
+
+00:38:08.040 --> 00:38:08.220
+right? Where is the thing that they would
+
+00:38:08.980 --> 00:38:09.240
+like to learn more about?
+
+00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:10.460
+And then, okay, if that hurts,
+
+00:38:12.620 --> 00:38:13.120
+try this and keep that manageable.
+
+00:38:15.720 --> 00:38:15.880
+And if there's only a way to also be able to
+
+00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:17.720
+capture each person's state,
+
+00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:19.840
+the things that they know about and have
+
+00:38:20.980 --> 00:38:21.480
+absorbed into their habits.
+
+00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:23.200
+So you can say, right,
+
+00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:25.760
+you know, my recommendation for someone who's
+
+00:38:28.580 --> 00:38:28.940
+brand new to org is not the same as somebody
+
+00:38:30.060 --> 00:38:30.480
+who's like, okay, they've got their agendas
+
+00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:31.800
+and everything set up already.
+
+00:38:33.680 --> 00:38:34.180
+Just how do we represent that as like WISPs?
+
+00:38:39.520 --> 00:38:39.720
+[Speaker 1]: I've given up on trying to map that.
+
+00:38:43.180 --> 00:38:43.440
+I like the one-on-one conversations and
+
+00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:47.980
+discovery. And I think that's the part where
+
+00:38:51.980 --> 00:38:52.120
+you're looking at, you're asking about how do
+
+00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:56.320
+we make the process and like I heard,
+
+00:38:58.860 --> 00:38:59.040
+like how do we help equip those who want to
+
+00:39:01.560 --> 00:39:01.960
+mentor as well, right?
+
+00:39:05.900 --> 00:39:05.970
+Making that, reducing the barrier in a way.
+
+00:39:06.040 --> 00:39:06.180
+[Speaker 2]: I don't
+
+00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:08.740
+[Speaker 3]: know, I think what you said about enjoying
+
+00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:10.680
+the conversation and the fact that it is
+
+00:39:12.080 --> 00:39:12.580
+really unique for each person,
+
+00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:15.260
+each situation that comes up.
+
+00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:18.840
+I suspect what it just comes down to is more
+
+00:39:21.560 --> 00:39:22.020
+like capturing the good stuff of each
+
+00:39:23.160 --> 00:39:23.660
+mentoring session or whatever.
+
+00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:26.120
+Maybe it's getting the mentees to write very
+
+00:39:27.700 --> 00:39:27.900
+short blog posts about what they learned this
+
+00:39:28.780 --> 00:39:29.280
+week or whatever else.
+
+00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:31.400
+And then, oh, yeah, you know,
+
+00:39:33.700 --> 00:39:33.900
+we ran into the same problem 3 months ago.
+
+00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:36.440
+Let me go look it up. And then that becomes a
+
+00:39:37.080 --> 00:39:37.580
+reusable segment.
+
+00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:41.780
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, when I worked at a coding bootcamp,
+
+00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:46.720
+they tried to encourage the mentors to say,
+
+00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:49.820
+like write a blog posts for the mentees.
+
+00:39:57.160 --> 00:39:57.380
+And that was, some of them did,
+
+00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:02.140
+but it was intimidating because like they
+
+00:40:03.260 --> 00:40:03.760
+didn't wanna, I don't know.
+
+00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:07.360
+Are we enculturated in an education system
+
+00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:09.920
+where we can't get it wrong or we need to
+
+00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:11.980
+look like we're more of an expert than we
+
+00:40:15.720 --> 00:40:16.220
+are? I don't know. I have a lot of like,
+
+00:40:17.720 --> 00:40:17.960
+I'm a middle aged white guy,
+
+00:40:20.140 --> 00:40:20.640
+I've got a lot of background and privilege in
+
+00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:25.680
+my career. So like, it's not as scary to put
+
+00:40:28.620 --> 00:40:28.860
+something forward for myself as it might be
+
+00:40:31.080 --> 00:40:31.240
+as like a woman in tech or a minority in
+
+00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:35.900
+tech, because that's a different place.
+
+00:40:38.900 --> 00:40:39.400
+And I want to really get done with that.
+
+00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:41.260
+I don't like that at all.
+
+00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:44.320
+And I would love our, like,
+
+00:40:46.640 --> 00:40:47.140
+just write. And it doesn't have to be public,
+
+00:40:48.540 --> 00:40:49.040
+right? You don't have to make it public,
+
+00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:52.380
+but if you make it discoverable to yourself,
+
+00:40:58.320 --> 00:40:58.820
+that's the big thing. And 1 of my coworkers,
+
+00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:05.020
+She doesn't blog, but she definitely has a
+
+00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:07.480
+large knowledge base of stuff that she
+
+00:41:08.980 --> 00:41:09.140
+references because she's pulling out all
+
+00:41:10.520 --> 00:41:10.760
+kinds of stuff and I'm like whatever you're
+
+00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:11.620
+doing is working.
+
+00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:18.420
+[Speaker 2]: I'm trying to have something.
+
+00:41:23.680 --> 00:41:24.180
+There's a good opportunity with the Emacs
+
+00:41:25.680 --> 00:41:26.180
+conference to accomplish this.
+
+00:41:28.420 --> 00:41:28.920
+So like if you make like a,
+
+00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:32.140
+because 1 of the things with it is,
+
+00:41:36.600 --> 00:41:37.080
+Sasha, you do a really good job of using all.
+
+00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:39.000
+You're the 1 who has the Emacs buffer with
+
+00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:40.080
+the time on it, right?
+
+00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:41.980
+Is that your screen that's being recorded for
+
+00:41:45.860 --> 00:41:46.360
+that? Because you have a really good example
+
+00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:50.600
+of a really consolidated emacs workflow that
+
+00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:53.920
+works really good with the Emacs conference
+
+00:41:56.520 --> 00:41:56.800
+so if you had like a page that described how
+
+00:42:00.100 --> 00:42:00.460
+you did all that stuff in the emacs
+
+00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:04.360
+conference like on that and then we then you
+
+00:42:06.140 --> 00:42:06.380
+did even more stuff with that.
+
+00:42:09.560 --> 00:42:10.060
+Like you do the org mode file that you can
+
+00:42:12.140 --> 00:42:12.340
+just put straight into your agenda for your
+
+00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:14.940
+time zone. I used that.
+
+00:42:17.540 --> 00:42:17.800
+That was really nice, just because it allowed
+
+00:42:19.600 --> 00:42:19.900
+me to reorganize and see how all the talks
+
+00:42:21.580 --> 00:42:21.880
+would work together, and which ones I wanted
+
+00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:26.060
+to do. You could add Org Mode to do tags with
+
+00:42:31.020 --> 00:42:31.520
+that, to say, plan to watch,
+
+00:42:36.080 --> 00:42:36.360
+I want to re-watch but I have to skip it
+
+00:42:37.540 --> 00:42:38.000
+because there's another talk I'm watching,
+
+00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:41.260
+you know, like a couple tags don't care about
+
+00:42:43.940 --> 00:42:44.200
+so that people can easily tag all the talks
+
+00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:47.860
+that they care about on top of that.
+
+00:42:52.660 --> 00:42:53.160
+And then with, I'm going to try to email
+
+00:42:54.660 --> 00:42:54.900
+these ideas on it too,
+
+00:42:57.980 --> 00:42:58.480
+but then you can also,
+
+00:43:00.940 --> 00:43:01.440
+you have the either pad questions,
+
+00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:04.440
+you could put all those in org-mode documents
+
+00:43:08.300 --> 00:43:08.760
+with crdt.el, post all those in the Emacs
+
+00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:11.600
+conference and then people could use that to
+
+00:43:13.820 --> 00:43:13.980
+edit all the documents at the same time so
+
+00:43:15.160 --> 00:43:15.660
+then everybody's actually collaboratively
+
+00:43:20.180 --> 00:43:20.440
+editing. And then people have all the
+
+00:43:24.520 --> 00:43:25.020
+scaffolding for if you do the Emacs meetings,
+
+00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:27.940
+buddy meetings, because they know exactly how
+
+00:43:29.820 --> 00:43:30.180
+to set it all up with that.
+
+00:43:34.040 --> 00:43:34.540
+And then you combine it with any number of
+
+00:43:38.040 --> 00:43:38.360
+whatever chat video program so that people
+
+00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:40.280
+can talk and watch each other.
+
+00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:45.920
+[Speaker 3]: I have a presentation later on EmacsConf
+
+00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:49.200
+infrastructure and I will capture the note
+
+00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:51.600
+And maybe I can include a mini tutorial in
+
+00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:53.800
+the schedule org so that people can be like,
+
+00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:55.680
+hey, by the way, you could refile these
+
+00:43:58.860 --> 00:43:59.120
+things into your own org files or tag them
+
+00:44:01.520 --> 00:44:01.720
+and here's a list thingy that filters your
+
+00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:03.740
+agenda by your tag or whatever,
+
+00:44:04.940 --> 00:44:05.200
+it'll be fine. But it's,
+
+00:44:06.100 --> 00:44:06.600
+you know, it's, it's kind of like,
+
+00:44:09.640 --> 00:44:09.800
+it is, you're right. It is an opportunity to
+
+00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:12.800
+expose people to more things that they could
+
+00:44:14.620 --> 00:44:15.120
+do in kind of a scaffolded way.
+
+00:44:16.600 --> 00:44:16.880
+That's interesting stuff,
+
+00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:19.040
+but I, your point actually driving also going
+
+00:44:21.180 --> 00:44:21.680
+back to previous parts of conversation about,
+
+00:44:24.340 --> 00:44:24.546
+it's difficult for people to share.
+
+00:44:26.420 --> 00:44:26.720
+When you realize, like I keep telling
+
+00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:28.880
+everyone, hey, if you blog about Emacs,
+
+00:44:30.720 --> 00:44:30.920
+you'll not only learn things for yourself and
+
+00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:31.920
+make things more searchable,
+
+00:44:33.520 --> 00:44:33.740
+other people will come by and tell you even
+
+00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:35.340
+better ways of doing things,
+
+00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:37.080
+which is something that always happens to me
+
+00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:37.960
+too, and I'm posting this.
+
+00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:38.900
+Has that ever happened?
+
+00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:40.460
+I'm sure that happens to you.
+
+00:44:45.020 --> 00:44:45.520
+[Speaker 1]: It's great. I love getting those things like,
+
+00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:49.700
+yeah, Howard's presentation on the game
+
+00:44:51.720 --> 00:44:52.000
+stuff. I'm like, I'm going to go explore that
+
+00:44:54.560 --> 00:44:55.060
+now. Because it's my little house.
+
+00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:57.780
+[Speaker 3]: You just have to make it less intimidating,
+
+00:45:00.600 --> 00:45:01.100
+right? And kind of change people's perception
+
+00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:03.540
+that, oh, blogging or sharing tutorials or
+
+00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:05.860
+whatever, that's then when you're an expert,
+
+00:45:06.340 --> 00:45:06.840
+when you're an experienced,
+
+00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:09.720
+to rather working out loud,
+
+00:45:11.520 --> 00:45:11.740
+thinking out loud, this is just that I'm
+
+00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:13.300
+learning along the way.
+
+00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:16.000
+And it might not be the most efficient way to
+
+00:45:17.720 --> 00:45:17.880
+do things, but this is what I'm doing right
+
+00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:18.380
+now.
+
+00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:24.180
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. And I had a handful of times where I
+
+00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:26.000
+posted something and someone was like,
+
+00:45:27.620 --> 00:45:27.900
+Oh yeah, this is, this would have you tried
+
+00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:30.420
+this? Or I'm like, I didn't even know that
+
+00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:32.940
+existed. That makes this easier.
+
+00:45:37.540 --> 00:45:37.740
+[Speaker 3]: I've written this like little hack and I'm
+
+00:45:38.860 --> 00:45:39.140
+very proud of it because it's clever.
+
+00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:39.920
+And then someone's like,
+
+00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:41.240
+Oh yeah, there's a package for that.
+
+00:45:42.720 --> 00:45:43.220
+It's called this. Right?
+
+00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:44.160
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you. Right? Yeah.
+
+00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:49.880
+It's just it's Yeah, it the fantastic part
+
+00:45:54.140 --> 00:45:54.240
+it. I played Legos as a kid and me and my
+
+00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:56.260
+friends would play Legos at the house.
+
+00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:01.300
+And Emacs has this like feeling of playing
+
+00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:04.540
+Legos with a group of people across the
+
+00:46:06.120 --> 00:46:06.620
+world. In fact, 1 of my current,
+
+00:46:09.080 --> 00:46:09.580
+well, 1 of my best friends now,
+
+00:46:14.040 --> 00:46:14.540
+we met a year ago. And it turns out we both
+
+00:46:18.460 --> 00:46:18.620
+love Emacs. We talk every Thursday and we
+
+00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:20.420
+hang out and we talk poetry.
+
+00:46:23.500 --> 00:46:24.000
+We talk Tom Petty. We talk Emacs.
+
+00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:25.420
+We talk software development.
+
+00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:27.340
+He does Python. I do Ruby.
+
+00:46:29.860 --> 00:46:30.360
+Just anything and everything.
+
+00:46:36.660 --> 00:46:36.820
+And it's also we both are curious because we
+
+00:46:38.100 --> 00:46:38.600
+don't use it the same way.
+
+00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:44.420
+And we like how we accomplish a task.
+
+00:46:47.020 --> 00:46:47.220
+I think that's the fascinating part to me is
+
+00:46:50.140 --> 00:46:50.580
+we each get to explore our way to interact
+
+00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:54.560
+with the computer uniquely by whatever
+
+00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:56.360
+pathways are in our brain.
+
+00:46:58.340 --> 00:46:58.520
+We see stuff, we pick it up,
+
+00:47:00.060 --> 00:47:00.240
+and we're like, that doesn't quite work for
+
+00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:02.460
+me, or, oh, that worked really well.
+
+00:47:06.660 --> 00:47:07.160
+Fascinating, like, I don't know,
+
+00:47:08.200 --> 00:47:08.700
+shared art installation.
+
+00:47:13.740 --> 00:47:14.020
+[Speaker 3]: I think you're onto something that I also
+
+00:47:15.460 --> 00:47:15.640
+resonate with. 1 of the things that
+
+00:47:18.820 --> 00:47:19.060
+fascinates me about Emacs is all these
+
+00:47:21.220 --> 00:47:21.720
+people's configuration jobs are crystallized
+
+00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:25.080
+workflows. And it's really when you talk to
+
+00:47:26.580 --> 00:47:27.080
+them and you see how they're using it,
+
+00:47:29.200 --> 00:47:29.540
+and you understand a little bit of their
+
+00:47:32.140 --> 00:47:32.320
+story and things that they need,
+
+00:47:33.160 --> 00:47:33.660
+the ideas they've had,
+
+00:47:35.640 --> 00:47:36.140
+that's really fascinating.
+
+00:47:37.580 --> 00:47:37.800
+And I think that's 1 of the things that makes
+
+00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:40.080
+it possible to be perpetually curious about
+
+00:47:42.660 --> 00:47:43.160
+Emacs, because it's not just the,
+
+00:47:43.820 --> 00:47:44.060
+you know, this is the,
+
+00:47:45.520 --> 00:47:45.920
+these are all the Lego pieces there are,
+
+00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:47.920
+but you have this community of people who are
+
+00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:50.820
+using these Lego bricks in such fascinating
+
+00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:53.940
+ways and always inventing new things for it.
+
+00:47:56.100 --> 00:47:56.600
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, new colors, new shapes,
+
+00:47:59.640 --> 00:48:00.140
+they show up. It's great.
+
+00:48:03.200 --> 00:48:03.400
+[Speaker 2]: It's like powered twice or something like
+
+00:48:06.040 --> 00:48:06.220
+that because it's like you can use Emacs with
+
+00:48:09.720 --> 00:48:10.220
+a thousand different customizations and then
+
+00:48:12.340 --> 00:48:12.720
+you can interact with people who can each
+
+00:48:16.540 --> 00:48:17.040
+also Use Emacs in a thousand different ways
+
+00:48:17.520 --> 00:48:17.800
+[Speaker 1]: Mm-hmm, Right,
+
+00:48:20.200 --> 00:48:20.280
+[Speaker 2]: Then you can both learn from each other and
+
+00:48:21.720 --> 00:48:22.040
+that can go a thousand different ways.
+
+00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:24.500
+So it's like, it's like powering your
+
+00:48:25.240 --> 00:48:25.680
+[Speaker 3]: Yep.
+
+00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:27.700
+[Speaker 2]: Something along those lines with each other
+
+00:48:30.720 --> 00:48:30.920
+and like how different and how much you can
+
+00:48:31.560 --> 00:48:32.060
+learn from it.
+
+00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:38.980
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, the kind of touching back to the mentee
+
+00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:42.380
+that I have who went, he had originally
+
+00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:44.980
+started in Vim and then did VS code.
+
+00:48:47.420 --> 00:48:47.600
+And then we were talking and he was gonna go
+
+00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:50.860
+into Emacs and I didn't have a,
+
+00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:52.360
+I mean, sure, that'd be great.
+
+00:48:53.860 --> 00:48:54.060
+But he's like, I don't have a lot of time.
+
+00:48:56.120 --> 00:48:56.620
+And I'm like, well, go back to the place that
+
+00:48:57.840 --> 00:48:58.340
+you have that experience.
+
+00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:01.280
+And he did, And then he started writing Lua
+
+00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:03.340
+plugins. He was like, this is so much fun.
+
+00:49:05.380 --> 00:49:05.880
+I'm like, good, you're on the right path.
+
+00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:11.340
+Like maybe there'll be space like over time,
+
+00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:14.360
+how Lua plugins and Emacs,
+
+00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:17.260
+you know, who knows? I know that Lua,
+
+00:49:19.040 --> 00:49:19.540
+you can use Fennel to write Lisp.
+
+00:49:24.240 --> 00:49:24.740
+In you write Lisp and it will transpile
+
+00:49:29.060 --> 00:49:29.560
+Fennel to Lua. I forget how that plays out,
+
+00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:32.080
+but we're not too far away from those 2
+
+00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:34.980
+things being able to play.
+
+00:49:39.020 --> 00:49:39.520
+But I guess the question is,
+
+00:49:41.980 --> 00:49:42.480
+does it need to? I don't know.
+
+00:49:44.540 --> 00:49:45.040
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I mean, even without direct code
+
+00:49:47.620 --> 00:49:48.120
+translation, the cross-pollination of ideas
+
+00:49:51.460 --> 00:49:51.960
+is certainly enough. I love the fact that
+
+00:49:54.720 --> 00:49:54.840
+people are borrowing ideas from VS Code and
+
+00:49:57.840 --> 00:49:58.040
+from Vim and people look at Emacs videos and
+
+00:49:58.840 --> 00:49:59.020
+other things and say, hey,
+
+00:49:59.860 --> 00:50:00.060
+that's a cool thing in Emacs,
+
+00:50:01.240 --> 00:50:01.680
+but I don't want to ever use Emacs.
+
+00:50:03.240 --> 00:50:03.740
+I'm going to do that whole thing in Vim.
+
+00:50:04.600 --> 00:50:05.100
+And I think that's fantastic.
+
+00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:07.820
+[Speaker 1]: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean,
+
+00:50:10.640 --> 00:50:11.140
+monocultures die. They just do.
+
+00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:17.340
+And computer software and computer industry
+
+00:50:24.120 --> 00:50:24.280
+pushes towards monoculture because of it
+
+00:50:26.660 --> 00:50:27.160
+wants the highest efficiency.
+
+00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:31.780
+And I'm like, I'm not,
+
+00:50:33.640 --> 00:50:34.140
+I mean, sometimes I'm here for that,
+
+00:50:35.600 --> 00:50:35.980
+but most of the time I'm like,
+
+00:50:37.120 --> 00:50:37.620
+I want the bumps and the warts.
+
+00:50:40.680 --> 00:50:41.180
+I want the art, the human interaction,
+
+00:50:42.720 --> 00:50:43.220
+the like, why are we trying to accomplish
+
+00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:43.860
+this?
+
+00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:46.620
+[Speaker 2]: It determines, It depends on how you
+
+00:50:49.640 --> 00:50:50.140
+determine efficiency because Emacs is far
+
+00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:53.240
+Even if Emacs isn't multi-threaded is far
+
+00:50:56.980 --> 00:50:57.480
+more efficient because because of the mental
+
+00:51:00.060 --> 00:51:00.220
+model shifts because you're able to play and
+
+00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:04.600
+tweak with it and then have as much of a
+
+00:51:07.160 --> 00:51:07.360
+mental model shift for each task change that
+
+00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:11.260
+you want. Like, yeah, I want my file manager
+
+00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:16.760
+to not be an editable text buffer.
+
+00:51:18.660 --> 00:51:19.120
+Although sometimes when I want to rename
+
+00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:20.820
+files, I want it to be that.
+
+00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:24.300
+[Speaker 1]: Right. Yeah, and really,
+
+00:51:26.640 --> 00:51:27.040
+like, to be clear, I like the idea of Emacs
+
+00:51:29.060 --> 00:51:29.340
+as a projection of, like,
+
+00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:30.660
+how I think about stuff.
+
+00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:33.960
+So it's that whatever my neurons have made a
+
+00:51:37.040 --> 00:51:37.280
+good pathway for, I can have Emacs flow with
+
+00:51:41.660 --> 00:51:42.160
+me. That efficiency side is I want a factory,
+
+00:51:43.080 --> 00:51:43.480
+I want to stamp out widgets,
+
+00:51:44.540 --> 00:51:44.720
+I want them to be the same,
+
+00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:45.650
+chop, chop, chop, chop,
+
+00:51:51.860 --> 00:51:52.360
+chop, chop. That emacs runs in its spirit
+
+00:51:57.180 --> 00:51:57.440
+along with vim contrary to that and I like
+
+00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:57.940
+that
+
+00:52:00.530 --> 00:52:00.720
+[Speaker 2]: emacs is a 1 of the things with the like the
+
+00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:03.680
+mental model of Emacs is you should look at
+
+00:52:06.180 --> 00:52:06.660
+Emacs like this is probably something that
+
+00:52:08.100 --> 00:52:08.320
+people should think about when they are
+
+00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:10.940
+introducing Emacs to other people is Emacs is
+
+00:52:15.720 --> 00:52:15.900
+a treasure trove of conflicting ways of
+
+00:52:18.080 --> 00:52:18.580
+solving the same problem so you get,
+
+00:52:22.040 --> 00:52:22.280
+so you can individuate yourself on how you
+
+00:52:23.520 --> 00:52:24.020
+actually want to solve that problem.
+
+00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:25.600
+[Speaker 3]: Do you
+
+00:52:26.700 --> 00:52:27.200
+[Speaker 2]: want Vim bindings or not?
+
+00:52:30.200 --> 00:52:30.580
+You get to choose. Or do you want Meow
+
+00:52:31.900 --> 00:52:32.400
+bindings? You can choose.
+
+00:52:34.780 --> 00:52:35.280
+[Speaker 1]: Yep. Absolutely. Yeah.
+
+00:52:38.780 --> 00:52:39.040
+I, I came, I'm, I consider my,
+
+00:52:42.380 --> 00:52:42.660
+I, I lament because in 2005 I almost picked
+
+00:52:46.100 --> 00:52:46.240
+up Emacs and it wasn't until 2020 that I
+
+00:52:49.040 --> 00:52:49.440
+picked it up. And fortunately I picked it up
+
+00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:54.500
+when I did because I was able to look at
+
+00:52:58.020 --> 00:52:58.520
+things I had previously accomplished and find
+
+00:53:05.140 --> 00:53:05.420
+analogs And things like Helm and Ivy were
+
+00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:09.440
+both 2 different ways of doing it and consult
+
+00:53:11.600 --> 00:53:12.100
+and then, or Selectrum and then consult,
+
+00:53:15.860 --> 00:53:16.060
+like they all had these different ways And it
+
+00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:19.400
+felt great because I could find the thing
+
+00:53:24.520 --> 00:53:25.020
+that worked for me. And they're close,
+
+00:53:27.680 --> 00:53:27.840
+but then they also like branch out and do
+
+00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:30.860
+things differently. And it was so fascinating
+
+00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.020
+to explore each of those and spend an hour or
+
+00:53:39.100 --> 00:53:39.360
+2 on a primary task in seeing where that
+
+00:53:42.040 --> 00:53:42.540
+little thread went. It's great.
+
+00:53:47.200 --> 00:53:47.600
+[Speaker 3]: So tell me a bit more about how you got into
+
+00:53:51.040 --> 00:53:51.300
+Emacs. What pulled you
+
+00:53:55.120 --> 00:53:55.620
+[Speaker 1]: in? Yeah, this is a great little moment.
+
+00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:00.180
+I started in TextMate,
+
+00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:03.420
+That's kind of where I would say the
+
+00:54:06.460 --> 00:54:06.660
+beginning for coding for open source and
+
+00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:08.340
+using open source software.
+
+00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:11.920
+Sorry, using open source frameworks and
+
+00:54:14.540 --> 00:54:15.040
+languages. So TextMate to Sublime,
+
+00:54:18.260 --> 00:54:18.580
+basically TextMate couldn't search very well
+
+00:54:20.740 --> 00:54:21.060
+at the time. It was getting bogged down.
+
+00:54:21.640 --> 00:54:22.080
+So I moved to Sublime,
+
+00:54:23.260 --> 00:54:23.760
+which solved it, felt well,
+
+00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:28.400
+carried the same UI look with me.
+
+00:54:30.680 --> 00:54:31.180
+And then when I was at a conference,
+
+00:54:34.540 --> 00:54:34.860
+there was a talk about using an open source
+
+00:54:36.600 --> 00:54:36.880
+editor. I was like, yeah,
+
+00:54:38.720 --> 00:54:39.220
+I need to do that. I really need to.
+
+00:54:43.080 --> 00:54:43.260
+And Adam was viable. I was like,
+
+00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:44.820
+Oh, this is really close.
+
+00:54:47.120 --> 00:54:47.360
+I'll use it. And I didn't think too much
+
+00:54:49.540 --> 00:54:49.680
+about it. And then the writing was on the
+
+00:54:51.120 --> 00:54:51.620
+wall, that Adam is going away.
+
+00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:56.040
+And I was like, I need to find an open source
+
+00:54:57.100 --> 00:54:57.600
+editor that speaks to me.
+
+00:54:59.200 --> 00:54:59.440
+And I said, all right,
+
+00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:01.260
+Vim, This is my fifth time.
+
+00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:06.800
+I will try. And I gave an earnest 2 weeks.
+
+00:55:09.060 --> 00:55:09.440
+And I'm just like, I cannot get this mental
+
+00:55:11.600 --> 00:55:11.840
+model in my head. So I'm like,
+
+00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:13.200
+all right, I set it down.
+
+00:55:14.540 --> 00:55:15.040
+I can use Vim, I'm comfortable.
+
+00:55:15.940 --> 00:55:16.360
+I think it's a great tool,
+
+00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:19.500
+but my mental model doesn't map well there.
+
+00:55:21.040 --> 00:55:21.420
+And I'm like, all right,
+
+00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:25.280
+here we go, VS code. All right,
+
+00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:28.520
+you're fine. But I feel like I might
+
+00:55:31.340 --> 00:55:31.500
+accidentally charge my credit card in the
+
+00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:33.500
+text editor on the default installation.
+
+00:55:38.680 --> 00:55:39.180
+And that was alluded to by in 1 of the talks,
+
+00:55:46.120 --> 00:55:46.620
+I forget who he German about mandating Emacs
+
+00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:48.500
+in his computer science classes.
+
+00:55:51.020 --> 00:55:51.220
+He mentioned like the Microsoft Office or
+
+00:55:54.060 --> 00:55:54.560
+Microsoft Marketplace felt like it was there.
+
+00:55:58.860 --> 00:55:59.060
+So that was 1, but the moment where I was
+
+00:56:02.380 --> 00:56:02.880
+like, oh, hell no, VS Code.
+
+00:56:08.520 --> 00:56:08.940
+Or I wanted to use a commit from the command
+
+00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:12.780
+palette, and it brought up an HTML text input
+
+00:56:15.060 --> 00:56:15.560
+area, and it was 30 characters.
+
+00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:23.500
+And in that moment, I saw several things.
+
+00:56:27.040 --> 00:56:27.140
+1, I'm like, no, that's terrible because I
+
+00:56:28.100 --> 00:56:28.600
+want to write something meaningful.
+
+00:56:33.640 --> 00:56:33.900
+2, this is the behavior that this tool is
+
+00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:39.240
+modeling. That tells me that history and like
+
+00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:41.820
+how it is built is not important.
+
+00:56:47.160 --> 00:56:47.320
+And yes, I can fix it and get around it.
+
+00:56:49.240 --> 00:56:49.740
+And I kind of did. And I was like,
+
+00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:51.860
+the principles are just,
+
+00:56:53.680 --> 00:56:54.180
+they're there. And then also understanding
+
+00:56:56.100 --> 00:56:56.600
+like there's a bunch of telemetry underneath
+
+00:56:58.860 --> 00:56:59.360
+it. So I used VS Codium,
+
+00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:00.740
+there's still telemetry.
+
+00:57:03.340 --> 00:57:03.840
+And I was like, all right,
+
+00:57:07.380 --> 00:57:07.880
+2005 Jeremy, let's go try Emacs,
+
+00:57:08.940 --> 00:57:09.440
+let's see if we can do it.
+
+00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:14.360
+And I hopped in, I grabbed Space Max.
+
+00:57:16.640 --> 00:57:17.020
+I was Like, yeah, this works pretty well.
+
+00:57:18.740 --> 00:57:18.960
+Like, I don't know how to use the keys very
+
+00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:21.380
+well. I'm figuring it out.
+
+00:57:26.040 --> 00:57:26.400
+And. And I was like, you know what?
+
+00:57:27.340 --> 00:57:27.840
+Why don't I do the tutorial?
+
+00:57:30.860 --> 00:57:31.360
+And it was the tutorial that hooked me.
+
+00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:37.320
+Not because everything made 100% sense
+
+00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:42.620
+because Emacs is old. It had a lot of
+
+00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:45.920
+language that was hard to internalize,
+
+00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:50.740
+but it presented it in a conversational I'm
+
+00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:52.600
+gonna meet you where you're at and we're
+
+00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:53.940
+gonna walk with it together.
+
+00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:56.980
+And then when I was done with the tutorial,
+
+00:57:58.420 --> 00:57:58.740
+I said, you know, Space Max,
+
+00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:00.060
+I don't understand it.
+
+00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:01.420
+And it's got some performance.
+
+00:58:04.180 --> 00:58:04.300
+It looks like there's like extra stuff that I
+
+00:58:08.420 --> 00:58:08.920
+may not need. So I went vanilla,
+
+00:58:11.780 --> 00:58:12.280
+nothing Emacs and just started working.
+
+00:58:14.060 --> 00:58:14.560
+I was like, well, how do you do this?
+
+00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:17.460
+[Speaker 2]: Although 5 minutes of Space Max or any of
+
+00:58:19.600 --> 00:58:20.100
+those Emacs distribution shows you
+
+00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:22.860
+unequivocally how different it can be.
+
+00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:26.380
+[Speaker 1]: It was, it was, it was so amazing,
+
+00:58:31.600 --> 00:58:32.100
+and it was so good. But I knew my nature was,
+
+00:58:34.780 --> 00:58:35.140
+I was frustrated in, like I wrote an Atom
+
+00:58:37.780 --> 00:58:38.280
+package, and that was awful.
+
+00:58:42.860 --> 00:58:43.360
+It was so terrible. But I knew what I wanted.
+
+00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:48.480
+And then I wrote, I started writing a VS code
+
+00:58:49.640 --> 00:58:49.840
+and I'm like, oh no, no,
+
+00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:51.300
+no, we're not here for this.
+
+00:58:55.520 --> 00:58:55.800
+And so, yeah, SpaceMax showed me like this
+
+00:59:00.600 --> 00:59:00.760
+can look and feel like a space that I used to
+
+00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:04.420
+be in. And then it has more functionality,
+
+00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:07.940
+more stuff. It's gonna be great.
+
+00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:10.380
+And then I just was like,
+
+00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:12.380
+I'm gonna go find my own.
+
+00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:16.200
+I'm really happy that I took the path because
+
+00:59:19.300 --> 00:59:19.640
+I just worked, wrote, and I'm like,
+
+00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:21.380
+I bet you this, I bet you the tool,
+
+00:59:22.540 --> 00:59:22.960
+I know it can do this because it,
+
+00:59:24.620 --> 00:59:25.120
+you know, text me, did this or Adam,
+
+00:59:27.800 --> 00:59:28.300
+I'm gonna go, I went on to Melpa and I found
+
+00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:29.940
+a couple different things.
+
+00:59:31.120 --> 00:59:31.440
+I'm like, all right, let's try them.
+
+00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:32.640
+I'm like, that's the 1,
+
+00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:34.980
+great. Roll it in, keep working.
+
+00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:36.500
+I know it can do this.
+
+00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:40.160
+Find a package. And so I built up this sense
+
+00:59:46.060 --> 00:59:46.160
+of the packages and my strategy was go to
+
+00:59:49.680 --> 00:59:49.940
+Melpa, look at, that was the 1 that showed
+
+00:59:52.540 --> 00:59:53.040
+up, look at the number of downloads.
+
+00:59:54.520 --> 00:59:54.960
+So I'm like, what's the high stuff?
+
+00:59:55.900 --> 00:59:56.400
+What really gets used?
+
+00:59:57.680 --> 00:59:58.180
+There's something there.
+
+01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:00.760
+And then also look at what was most recently
+
+01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:03.580
+updated. So kind of pivot on those along with
+
+01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:07.260
+a keyword search and I found the tools that
+
+01:00:17.780 --> 01:00:18.100
+worked well. But it really came down to like
+
+01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:20.460
+that VS Code I was almost in,
+
+01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:24.640
+but I've been around long enough to know what
+
+01:00:25.560 --> 01:00:26.060
+Microsoft will do.
+
+01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:32.540
+[Speaker 2]: For me, I was always like customizing things.
+
+01:00:34.600 --> 01:00:35.100
+I think I saw some interesting emacs videos.
+
+01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:42.720
+I wanted to try Well, I wanted to try working
+
+01:00:44.500 --> 01:00:44.720
+more with the keyboard and not need I think
+
+01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:47.300
+[Speaker 1]: mm-hmm
+
+01:00:51.180 --> 01:00:51.680
+[Speaker 2]: the mouse on a laptop And so I was looking
+
+01:00:54.380 --> 01:00:54.520
+explicitly for ways to just work on the
+
+01:00:56.920 --> 01:00:57.400
+keyboard only, which meant that I wasn't
+
+01:00:59.060 --> 01:00:59.560
+looking for programs that followed Cua,
+
+01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:04.900
+which really leaves you like 2 options,
+
+01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:11.380
+Vim and Emacs. And when I looked at the 2,
+
+01:01:13.940 --> 01:01:14.100
+I saw 1 of the big differentiating factors I
+
+01:01:15.660 --> 01:01:16.020
+saw was Tramp, which was,
+
+01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:18.600
+oh, you mean I get a SSH into a machine and
+
+01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:20.340
+have my customizations too?
+
+01:01:22.740 --> 01:01:23.240
+[Speaker 1]: Yep. Yeah.
+
+01:01:29.140 --> 01:01:29.540
+[Speaker 2]: And then I started using Emacs more and more.
+
+01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:34.860
+Eventually I combined that with a tiling
+
+01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:36.900
+window manager, NixOS,
+
+01:01:40.840 --> 01:01:41.040
+and started banishing as much of the GUI as I
+
+01:01:44.060 --> 01:01:44.560
+possibly could, running MPV or VLC,
+
+01:01:49.180 --> 01:01:49.400
+so I could edit so that my config files could
+
+01:01:53.720 --> 01:01:54.020
+be keyboard oriented. My settings config
+
+01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:56.420
+menus are now keyboard oriented.
+
+01:02:00.860 --> 01:02:01.080
+And yeah, that was the incremental process of
+
+01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:04.900
+just, yeah, making the computer nicer,
+
+01:02:06.680 --> 01:02:06.860
+more efficient, and then you figure out all
+
+01:02:08.080 --> 01:02:08.580
+the other advantages of the...
+
+01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:13.780
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. How did you get in to it,
+
+01:02:18.940 --> 01:02:19.440
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, you're lost.
+
+01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:22.340
+[Speaker 1]: Sasha? Your sound is gone.
+
+01:02:27.345 --> 01:02:27.845
+[Speaker 3]: Sorry, my face mute button.
+
+01:02:29.600 --> 01:02:29.800
+Okay, I'll tell you that story,
+
+01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:31.080
+I get thought out of my head,
+
+01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:33.240
+so I forget it. But what you described,
+
+01:02:34.900 --> 01:02:35.080
+Jerry, about kind of starting with the
+
+01:02:37.340 --> 01:02:37.540
+distribution and then pulling back and
+
+01:02:39.140 --> 01:02:39.520
+starting with vanilla and building up,
+
+01:02:41.040 --> 01:02:41.320
+kind of close the stories that I've heard
+
+01:02:42.980 --> 01:02:43.480
+from a lot of people in the community where
+
+01:02:46.600 --> 01:02:46.800
+the distribution gives them kind of an end
+
+01:02:48.140 --> 01:02:48.640
+goal, at least work requirements,
+
+01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:50.600
+So get the stuff done and they're not
+
+01:02:52.260 --> 01:02:52.760
+slugging through the weeds around the start.
+
+01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:55.760
+I have a hard time modifying it because
+
+01:02:57.440 --> 01:02:57.720
+modifying the distribution itself is very
+
+01:02:59.140 --> 01:02:59.640
+different from the tools they see.
+
+01:03:01.520 --> 01:03:01.740
+They feel like they want to understand the
+
+01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:02.820
+different possible part.
+
+01:03:04.240 --> 01:03:04.540
+And so then they pull back and say,
+
+01:03:06.300 --> 01:03:06.800
+okay, I've got this thing that can use
+
+01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:08.680
+everything to just get some quick work done,
+
+01:03:10.380 --> 01:03:10.760
+but I have this thing that I can call,
+
+01:03:13.500 --> 01:03:13.680
+that's mine. And I understand because I'm
+
+01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:16.460
+building it up from the ground up.
+
+01:03:19.540 --> 01:03:19.640
+Okay, so that's like, oh,
+
+01:03:21.500 --> 01:03:21.660
+interesting, there's a lot of people who are
+
+01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:24.280
+like that, and it really helps them to both
+
+01:03:27.240 --> 01:03:27.620
+have that insight, which is see through
+
+01:03:29.540 --> 01:03:29.780
+distributions and also videos of other
+
+01:03:32.060 --> 01:03:32.220
+people's workflows and press kind of
+
+01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:34.500
+conference presentations often about
+
+01:03:35.140 --> 01:03:35.540
+completely different topics,
+
+01:03:37.540 --> 01:03:37.700
+right? So someone whizzing through Ruby on
+
+01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:40.420
+Rails or whatever else and doing all of this.
+
+01:03:43.580 --> 01:03:44.040
+But also having 1 help them break out,
+
+01:03:46.560 --> 01:03:46.760
+okay, well, there's a lot of work from where
+
+01:03:47.900 --> 01:03:48.160
+I am to where that is.
+
+01:03:49.740 --> 01:03:50.240
+How do I do it without being overwhelmed?
+
+01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:52.960
+Because if they try to learn everything,
+
+01:03:55.520 --> 01:03:55.760
+they'll go crazy. And then they'll fall.
+
+01:03:57.500 --> 01:03:58.000
+And the brain is super important.
+
+01:04:01.500 --> 01:04:01.860
+And how I got into this whole eMac thing was
+
+01:04:03.520 --> 01:04:03.780
+I was reading all the computer science books
+
+01:04:06.180 --> 01:04:06.480
+in the university library and 1 of the Unix
+
+01:04:09.160 --> 01:04:09.360
+power tools had a chapter on Emacs and had
+
+01:04:11.040 --> 01:04:11.320
+them you know well there's another type of
+
+01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:14.760
+whatever. Okay that's interesting so I went
+
+01:04:17.080 --> 01:04:17.320
+and tried it out But the reason I really got
+
+01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:19.780
+into it was because I was using John Wigley's
+
+01:04:23.520 --> 01:04:23.760
+Planner Mode. This was before Org Mode came
+
+01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:25.600
+about. So Planner Mode was a link.
+
+01:04:27.040 --> 01:04:27.540
+I said, hey, this is great.
+
+01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:29.880
+I'm looking for ways to help out.
+
+01:04:31.560 --> 01:04:32.060
+If you need help verifying any bugs,
+
+01:04:34.160 --> 01:04:34.660
+you know, send it to me and I'll do the
+
+01:04:37.540 --> 01:04:37.840
+figuring out. He's an author and an inventor.
+
+01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:38.100
+[Speaker 2]: And then
+
+01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:39.980
+[Speaker 3]: he made me the miniature for it.
+
+01:04:42.720 --> 01:04:42.880
+So I'm like, okay. And then that's how I got
+
+01:04:44.680 --> 01:04:45.140
+to know this wonderful community of people
+
+01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:47.340
+who customize emacs so much.
+
+01:04:51.680 --> 01:04:52.180
+And it just goes there because really,
+
+01:04:54.100 --> 01:04:54.240
+when you see all these different ways that
+
+01:04:55.860 --> 01:04:56.360
+people use in all these different stories
+
+01:05:00.060 --> 01:05:00.480
+that you get send off because they're using
+
+01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:04.460
+it to bake sourdough bread and do knitting
+
+01:05:06.700 --> 01:05:06.880
+and all the crazy things that people come up
+
+01:05:08.900 --> 01:05:09.400
+with. I've been using it as an audio editor.
+
+01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:11.500
+It's just weird. It's just fun.
+
+01:05:13.100 --> 01:05:13.600
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that's great.
+
+01:05:19.640 --> 01:05:20.020
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah. Every, Sasha, like 2 things that I was
+
+01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:23.040
+meaning to say is every time I see the on the
+
+01:05:26.140 --> 01:05:26.580
+EMAX conference the time that the scratch
+
+01:05:29.900 --> 01:05:30.400
+buffer with the big clock that is ticking
+
+01:05:34.980 --> 01:05:35.480
+down as and the multi multiple sized fonts As
+
+01:05:37.720 --> 01:05:37.900
+I always think wow, that's really cool.
+
+01:05:38.980 --> 01:05:39.280
+I didn't know Emacs could do that.
+
+01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:40.940
+Wait, no, I saw that last year.
+
+01:05:43.860 --> 01:05:44.060
+How do you do, now, how do I do that?
+
+01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:45.480
+Cause that's not, and that's not something I
+
+01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:47.420
+normally even think about Emacs doing.
+
+01:05:48.080 --> 01:05:48.580
+[Speaker 1]: Right.
+
+01:05:51.220 --> 01:05:51.720
+[Speaker 2]: I'll think about putting
+
+01:05:55.760 --> 01:05:56.260
+[Speaker 3]: There's an EmacsConf-stream.el
+
+01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:00.260
+in the EmacsConf-el repository.
+
+01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:04.160
+Grab the link and open but you can grab the
+
+01:06:07.940 --> 01:06:08.260
+code from there. It's basically the text
+
+01:06:08.260 --> 01:06:08.760
+property.
+
+01:06:15.020 --> 01:06:15.480
+[Speaker 2]: But it's a thought that has repeated multiple
+
+01:06:17.140 --> 01:06:17.460
+years. Like, I didn't know we could do that
+
+01:06:18.220 --> 01:06:18.720
+way. I thought about that.
+
+01:06:21.260 --> 01:06:21.600
+I had this exact thought last year when I saw
+
+01:06:21.600 --> 01:06:22.100
+it.
+
+01:06:28.260 --> 01:06:28.480
+[Speaker 1]: It's, we're like, I'm at the point where it's
+
+01:06:31.220 --> 01:06:31.620
+like I have memories of remembering doing
+
+01:06:34.540 --> 01:06:35.040
+something. I don't have memories of doing it.
+
+01:06:36.680 --> 01:06:37.180
+Like all of the things.
+
+01:06:40.560 --> 01:06:41.060
+Like so it's again, we,
+
+01:06:45.240 --> 01:06:45.740
+Emacs helps expose like the,
+
+01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:49.140
+like it's, anything's possible.
+
+01:06:53.300 --> 01:06:53.560
+And we see how it becomes possible through
+
+01:06:55.640 --> 01:06:56.120
+other people. And then it gets our brains
+
+01:06:57.780 --> 01:06:58.140
+thinking about other ways of doing stuff.
+
+01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:00.420
+And I think that's the exciting part.
+
+01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:02.860
+Dog who wants to go play Frisbee.
+
+01:07:07.900 --> 01:07:08.080
+[Speaker 3]: And that's actually 1 of the reasons why I
+
+01:07:11.060 --> 01:07:11.320
+want to encourage people to not only talk
+
+01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:12.980
+about Emacs and write Emacs blog posts,
+
+01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:15.520
+but also actually demonstrate Emacs in the
+
+01:07:16.560 --> 01:07:17.060
+sense of doing something else.
+
+01:07:20.220 --> 01:07:20.720
+So for example, we can match people at Emacs
+
+01:07:23.560 --> 01:07:24.000
+if you're presenting about Ruby on Rails and
+
+01:07:27.040 --> 01:07:27.440
+you're doing all of your and education and
+
+01:07:30.240 --> 01:07:30.480
+things while you're presenting Rails,
+
+01:07:32.900 --> 01:07:33.400
+you reach all these people who are interested
+
+01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:34.780
+in Rails, developer Rails,
+
+01:07:36.260 --> 01:07:36.760
+but might not have even considered Emacs.
+
+01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:42.420
+And here, you know, you probably would.
+
+01:07:44.860 --> 01:07:45.060
+I would probably have a hard time writing an
+
+01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:47.540
+entire talk about adding text properties,
+
+01:07:49.540 --> 01:07:49.760
+but the fact that there's a thing here that
+
+01:07:50.800 --> 01:07:51.300
+shows, hey, this is possible,
+
+01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:53.300
+Emacs can get people to think,
+
+01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:55.380
+okay, so how do I get from here to there?
+
+01:07:57.440 --> 01:07:57.940
+Just showing the possible.
+
+01:08:02.120 --> 01:08:02.360
+Yeah. Which source code is in the,
+
+01:08:02.360 --> 01:08:02.860
+whatchamacallit.
+
+01:08:04.600 --> 01:08:05.100
+[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah. Yeah, I just saw that.
+
+01:08:08.240 --> 01:08:08.740
+[Speaker 2]: There's a weird interesting thing how Emacs
+
+01:08:12.540 --> 01:08:12.720
+dovetails with people who are interested in
+
+01:08:15.940 --> 01:08:16.439
+making their own local first Zettelkasten,
+
+01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:18.220
+because look at how many Zettelkasten
+
+01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:21.600
+packages you have. Especially with how much,
+
+01:08:23.800 --> 01:08:24.100
+like it feels like, it seems like Emacs has
+
+01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:27.939
+more than Vim, but Vim is bigger or VS,
+
+01:08:30.140 --> 01:08:30.420
+feels like it has more than Vim or VS Code,
+
+01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:32.319
+and VS Code's bigger. I'm not sure,
+
+01:08:36.819 --> 01:08:37.319
+but it feels like it. Same thing with that
+
+01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:40.420
+HyperCore. That HyperCore felt more like a
+
+01:08:42.540 --> 01:08:43.040
+local first peer-to-peer system.
+
+01:08:48.240 --> 01:08:48.640
+So there's a weird dovetail where they want
+
+01:08:52.279 --> 01:08:52.779
+the knowledge bases that are local first,
+
+01:08:58.260 --> 01:08:58.359
+comprehensive, because 1 of the properties of
+
+01:09:03.500 --> 01:09:03.740
+the Zettelkasten or Org Mode agendas is that
+
+01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:07.819
+it's all your notes in 1 place.
+
+01:09:14.439 --> 01:09:14.760
+It's not, you know, your notes in either pad
+
+01:09:19.540 --> 01:09:20.040
+and your notes in Google Calendar,
+
+01:09:23.180 --> 01:09:23.680
+your notes in 20 different places,
+
+01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:25.020
+your notes in Evernote.
+
+01:09:28.700 --> 01:09:29.060
+It's your notes in 1 program in 1 place
+
+01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:31.080
+because you have to deal with them And
+
+01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:32.800
+they're going to be in files on your hard
+
+01:09:34.279 --> 01:09:34.779
+drive, and you're going to have packages
+
+01:09:37.080 --> 01:09:37.359
+there. That's the other weird thing too,
+
+01:09:40.240 --> 01:09:40.600
+is how many, like, you install an Emacs
+
+01:09:41.399 --> 01:09:41.899
+package, 1 of the guarantees,
+
+01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:43.640
+some of the guarantees you seem to get with
+
+01:09:46.260 --> 01:09:46.680
+it is if it does use an external program,
+
+01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:48.580
+it's going to have a lot of configuration in
+
+01:09:51.020 --> 01:09:51.520
+Emacs. It's going to be installed.
+
+01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:54.260
+It's going to be local first.
+
+01:09:56.780 --> 01:09:57.100
+Cause like you have flow bits,
+
+01:09:59.340 --> 01:09:59.840
+but how many programs like are,
+
+01:10:05.140 --> 01:10:05.280
+are cloud first. And it feels like most of
+
+01:10:06.820 --> 01:10:07.320
+those are like org Trello,
+
+01:10:10.160 --> 01:10:10.520
+where it's like, I want to use org mode,
+
+01:10:12.040 --> 01:10:12.540
+but other people use Trello.
+
+01:10:15.460 --> 01:10:15.780
+So I'm going to be grudgingly using this org
+
+01:10:17.400 --> 01:10:17.660
+Trello to be a bridge between the 2,
+
+01:10:19.200 --> 01:10:19.640
+not because I wanted to use org,
+
+01:10:21.240 --> 01:10:21.360
+not because I wanted to use Trello in the
+
+01:10:23.200 --> 01:10:23.320
+first place or I started off with Trello and
+
+01:10:24.280 --> 01:10:24.780
+now I wanna use org mode.
+
+01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:28.180
+[Speaker 1]: Right, no, you're that local first.
+
+01:10:37.020 --> 01:10:37.400
+The Thought I have is with the 2022 interest
+
+01:10:43.080 --> 01:10:43.580
+rates going up, the era of free money,
+
+01:10:46.520 --> 01:10:47.020
+or even like getting money for more,
+
+01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:50.180
+more money than it actually costs Like it was
+
+01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:56.100
+minting money. We are going to be seeing how
+
+01:10:59.440 --> 01:10:59.940
+these organizations that had financial
+
+01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:02.340
+runways, all of these cloud services,
+
+01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:07.020
+what's not gonna last because there's no
+
+01:11:12.440 --> 01:11:12.880
+funding. And like the durability of our local
+
+01:11:16.400 --> 01:11:16.900
+first plain text, free open source stuff.
+
+01:11:21.320 --> 01:11:21.820
+Like I won't have to do a content migration
+
+01:11:24.320 --> 01:11:24.740
+unless I get a B of my bonnet and want to
+
+01:11:27.700 --> 01:11:27.880
+like change from org mode to markdown for
+
+01:11:30.660 --> 01:11:30.920
+some reason. Like I have it and Then I can
+
+01:11:32.980 --> 01:11:33.480
+send it out. So there's also like that posse
+
+01:11:36.400 --> 01:11:36.900
+principle publish on-site syndicate
+
+01:11:41.660 --> 01:11:41.820
+everywhere Is what emacs and vim like they
+
+01:11:42.780 --> 01:11:43.280
+allow for us to do?
+
+01:11:46.440 --> 01:11:46.620
+[Speaker 2]: Well, that's part of the individuation is you
+
+01:11:48.900 --> 01:11:49.080
+have multiple options of doing something so
+
+01:11:51.580 --> 01:11:51.820
+you can choose something so you can take
+
+01:11:54.360 --> 01:11:54.860
+ownership of your data in the way you want.
+
+01:12:00.220 --> 01:12:00.380
+It all dovetails into each other and I think
+
+01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:03.260
+that's something worth thinking about,
+
+01:12:05.540 --> 01:12:05.800
+especially in relation with who should learn
+
+01:12:08.040 --> 01:12:08.440
+and how should you introduce Emacs to people,
+
+01:12:14.180 --> 01:12:14.420
+because like, with the idea of people should
+
+01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:16.800
+try an Emacs distribution and then start
+
+01:12:17.240 --> 01:12:17.740
+their own from scratch,
+
+01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:19.120
+just so that they, like,
+
+01:12:20.280 --> 01:12:20.640
+if you use it for 10 minutes,
+
+01:12:24.400 --> 01:12:24.820
+you'll gain so much because you use your 3
+
+01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:26.260
+and then all of a sudden you realize,
+
+01:12:29.180 --> 01:12:29.440
+you also know how malleable Emacs can be.
+
+01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:30.960
+And then you start saying,
+
+01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:32.160
+now, how do I do that?
+
+01:12:33.240 --> 01:12:33.740
+So I get to make those choices?
+
+01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:35.340
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah.
+
+01:12:39.340 --> 01:12:39.520
+[Speaker 2]: Or you might say, this person did it well
+
+01:12:40.320 --> 01:12:40.820
+enough, I don't have to.
+
+01:12:43.500 --> 01:12:43.900
+[Speaker 3]: That reminded me of something that I also
+
+01:12:45.360 --> 01:12:45.860
+wanted to mention, shocking word,
+
+01:12:49.040 --> 01:12:49.280
+as in malleability. Another tip I came
+
+01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:50.900
+across, don't know from whom,
+
+01:12:51.500 --> 01:12:51.700
+might have been from you,
+
+01:12:53.440 --> 01:12:53.940
+I don't know, is to define aliases,
+
+01:12:56.320 --> 01:12:56.460
+because we use different words from what the
+
+01:12:58.680 --> 01:12:59.180
+functions are. It's 1 of those little meta
+
+01:13:00.420 --> 01:13:00.720
+things that, you know,
+
+01:13:02.080 --> 01:13:02.580
+If you keep calling it something else,
+
+01:13:05.900 --> 01:13:06.020
+just define it so that you can call it like
+
+01:13:06.760 --> 01:13:07.260
+commencing your words.
+
+01:13:12.440 --> 01:13:12.740
+[Speaker 1]: it's interesting. Anyway,
+
+01:13:14.020 --> 01:13:14.240
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Yeah, gotta go disappear and get ready
+
+01:13:17.220 --> 01:13:17.360
+for my dog. Okay, I'll listen to what you
+
+01:13:18.120 --> 01:13:18.280
+say. All right, I
+
+01:13:20.020 --> 01:13:20.520
+[Speaker 1]: I need to take my dogs out and play Frisbee.
+
+01:13:21.780 --> 01:13:22.280
+They have been so patient.
+
+01:13:26.040 --> 01:13:26.200
+So it was great talking with all of you and
+
+01:13:29.640 --> 01:13:30.040
+Sasha, thanks for the organizing energy
+
+01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:32.120
+you've put into this. Plasma Strike,
+
+01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:33.300
+thank you for your presentation.
+
+01:13:34.860 --> 01:13:35.360
+I love this conference.
+
+01:13:36.660 --> 01:13:37.160
+So thank you very much.
+
+01:13:41.760 --> 01:13:42.260
+And now have a good rest of your Sunday.
+
+01:13:43.100 --> 01:13:43.600
+Bye.