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diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4f89a184 --- /dev/null +++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,3803 @@ +WEBVTT + + +00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.540 +[Speaker 0]: Here. + +00:00:05.140 --> 00:00:05.440 +[Speaker 1]: All right. Yeah. So thanks, + +00:00:06.279 --> 00:00:06.779 +Fermin, for the great talk. + +00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:08.540 +People have questions, + +00:00:12.179 --> 00:00:12.380 +please post them on the pad or the IRC as + +00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:13.759 +well and we'll take them up. + +00:00:17.240 --> 00:00:17.480 +[Speaker 2]: Thank you very much. The guests will be here + +00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:22.220 +to answer questions. Let's see. + +00:00:23.560 --> 00:00:24.060 +Yep. + +00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:28.220 +[Speaker 1]: And also, Fermin, if you later want to + +00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:31.160 +clarify anything or fix any URLs or such, + +00:00:32.860 --> 00:00:33.000 +you're always welcome to do that either like + +00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:36.140 +on the Wiki page, or if you like email any of + +00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:37.840 +the organizers, they should be able to help + +00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:38.900 +with that as well. + +00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:41.500 +[Speaker 2]: Okay. Yeah, I put the wrong URL. + +00:00:46.020 --> 00:00:46.360 +Yeah, not a big deal really, + +00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:48.980 +if you look it up. Yeah, + +00:00:50.940 --> 00:00:51.440 +that's really better. Thank you very much. + +00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:57.420 +Checking, no questions. + +00:00:58.780 --> 00:00:59.280 +Very good to be in touch. + +00:01:17.220 --> 00:01:17.360 +[Speaker 1]: Oh, we have a question here in the big blue + +00:01:17.720 --> 00:01:18.220 +button chat. + +00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:22.320 +[Speaker 2]: Oh, public chat. I see. + +00:01:26.380 --> 00:01:26.600 +Is LEM an acronym? I think it is, + +00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:33.080 +but I never remember. The complete name is + +00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:36.660 +like something... It's also a circle, + +00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:39.440 +like, you know, a self-referencing, + +00:01:41.320 --> 00:01:41.820 +you know, recursive name. + +00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:43.400 +I never remember it, sorry. + +00:01:45.860 --> 00:01:46.360 +It's like... Yeah, someone... + +00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:51.080 +Okay, someone asked about the DEM community, + +00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:56.700 +how big it is. So I don't remember, + +00:01:57.500 --> 00:01:57.720 +to answer the question, + +00:01:58.440 --> 00:01:58.740 +I don't remember the acronym, + +00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:01.140 +but it is an acronym. I just never... + +00:02:04.700 --> 00:02:05.060 +And it's not written anywhere, + +00:02:06.380 --> 00:02:06.880 +I think, or someone... + +00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:09.840 +I never check it. So I... + +00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:13.220 +[Speaker 0]: I forgot. + +00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:15.820 +[Speaker 2]: My maintainer told me once and then So, + +00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:17.900 +whole large, does Leia have a package + +00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:20.300 +manager? We do have a package manager, + +00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:22.400 +funnily enough. We use the QuickLisp + +00:02:26.200 --> 00:02:26.700 +infrastructure to get packages, + +00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:30.080 +so it's very easy to install packages. + +00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:33.840 +So basically, we don't have a package manager + +00:02:35.740 --> 00:02:36.240 +as in Emacs, half a packet.l. + +00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:39.400 +We're using the same common list + +00:02:41.180 --> 00:02:41.460 +infrastructure to provide the different + +00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:46.060 +packages. We also have a talk with the + +00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:47.620 +Ultralisp, which is like a, + +00:02:48.640 --> 00:02:48.900 +you know, QuickLisp is like, + +00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:50.520 +you can think quickly of Melpa. + +00:02:52.540 --> 00:02:53.040 +Ultralisp is like a fast Melpa, + +00:02:54.440 --> 00:02:54.900 +very fast Melpa, that every, + +00:02:58.460 --> 00:02:58.660 +I think every day you can get a package from + +00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:01.880 +them. And We have a tag system that you can + +00:03:02.920 --> 00:03:03.420 +submit a package and get a tag, + +00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:08.360 +and Theory can download those packages with + +00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:13.640 +the lem tag. So the thing is, + +00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:17.440 +it's not yet, it doesn't have a user + +00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:18.900 +interface to install packages. + +00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:22.520 +Still, it's 2 external packages. + +00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:25.920 +For now, imagine this is like the early + +00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:27.960 +Emacs, right? Everything is going to the core + +00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:29.540 +for now, because we need that functionality. + +00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:32.680 +In the future, we probably will split it up + +00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:37.620 +way more. But let me first answer a question + +00:03:42.440 --> 00:03:42.740 +in the other part. How large is the LEN + +00:03:44.440 --> 00:03:44.720 +community? Hope it's a chance of survival + +00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:47.860 +long term. So we are a very small community, + +00:03:51.260 --> 00:03:51.760 +mostly because Sasaki-san, + +00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:54.620 +the main developers of the community, + +00:03:57.160 --> 00:03:57.440 +are from Japan and some of them, + +00:03:58.620 --> 00:03:59.120 +or most of them, don't know English. + +00:04:01.640 --> 00:04:01.960 +At the beginning, LEM was a very + +00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:05.220 +Japanese-centric tooling because barrier of + +00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.460 +language, most of the users are from Japan. + +00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:09.140 +So different communities. + +00:04:12.040 --> 00:04:12.260 +And also, I don't know why, + +00:04:13.100 --> 00:04:13.520 +but the main maintainer, + +00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:18.079 +which is Asaki-san, very good guy and a very, + +00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:19.579 +very talented developer. + +00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:22.280 +He doesn't like to, you know, + +00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:25.020 +at first the project was all in Japanese, + +00:04:27.100 --> 00:04:27.260 +so he doesn't care if someone uses the + +00:04:28.520 --> 00:04:29.020 +project or not. He's more focused on the, + +00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:32.560 +I guess, quality of the features of it. + +00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:36.240 +So that creates a problem that doesn't really + +00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:39.000 +mind the community. So the community doesn't + +00:04:41.640 --> 00:04:41.760 +mind in a good way. It's to focus more on + +00:04:43.440 --> 00:04:43.940 +technicality rather than the user, + +00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:46.800 +which I mean, I cannot blame him. + +00:04:49.540 --> 00:04:49.700 +It's very hard work to build an Emacs and + +00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:53.040 +editor from scratch. It's not a trivial task. + +00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:56.660 +So yeah, we're a very small community. + +00:04:58.660 --> 00:04:58.940 +But I think the chance of survival is very + +00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:01.640 +good because LEM is written in ANSI Common + +00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.040 +Lisp, so it should be used in any... + +00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:07.940 +Well, it works in a lot of Common Lisp + +00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:10.900 +implementation. For people who don't know, + +00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:12.400 +Common Lisp is a language that was + +00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:13.640 +standardized in the 94. + +00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:14.840 +I explained that in the talk, + +00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:16.160 +but I'll say it again. + +00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:18.580 +So, if Common Lisp exists, + +00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:21.700 +in theory, LEM should also exist. + +00:05:24.340 --> 00:05:24.840 +And also if nCursor doesn't break or doesn't + +00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:28.060 +stop to exist, which is even less likely. + +00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:30.900 +So that's the main idea. + +00:05:33.460 --> 00:05:33.740 +And you can use LEM for very good Common Lisp + +00:05:36.380 --> 00:05:36.600 +development already. If Common Lisp doesn't + +00:05:39.440 --> 00:05:39.940 +change that much, it should disappear. + +00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:43.220 +We are not bound to any company or any... + +00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:46.540 +Even Sasaki-san, God forbid, + +00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:48.220 +disappears instantaneously. + +00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:50.740 +There are a few people, + +00:05:52.260 --> 00:05:52.440 +me included, that know very well the code + +00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:54.520 +base and we can continue the development. + +00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:56.720 +So it's not like 1, there's no one-man + +00:05:58.860 --> 00:05:59.360 +project. Maybe a four-man project or 5, + +00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:04.640 +but not 1. Okay, I'll answer the 1 in the + +00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:08.600 +chat, on the blue button. + +00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:10.840 +Is it best to learn Common Lisp before + +00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:13.600 +learning to use LEM? I think this is similar + +00:06:15.780 --> 00:06:16.280 +to Emacs and EmacLisp, + +00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:19.080 +right? Should you use EmacLisp before using + +00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:20.460 +Emacs? Doesn't make too much sense, + +00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:23.860 +right? You see Emacs and then you go learning + +00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:29.060 +Common Lisp. I think it's the same, + +00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:31.300 +sorry, EmacsLisp. And it's the same with LEM. + +00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:33.300 +You can start using LEM with a non-common + +00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:38.040 +Lisp, which is fine. You can use it to edit + +00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:39.520 +your things. It's like an editor. + +00:06:42.900 --> 00:06:43.040 +But like Emacs, LEM puts a lot of focus on + +00:06:46.820 --> 00:06:46.960 +extensibility. So it's very probable that you + +00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:50.420 +will learn how to write Common Lisp. + +00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:53.600 +I have to say that a lot of people that use + +00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:56.440 +LEM, well, me and most of the people, + +00:06:59.060 --> 00:06:59.440 +come from Emacs. So if you come from Emacs + +00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:01.120 +and you know a little bit of Emac Lisp, + +00:07:04.820 --> 00:07:05.320 +Common Lisp is like an uncle or cousin + +00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:07.620 +distance that shares some similarities. + +00:07:09.820 --> 00:07:10.020 +So you will... Well, it's not going to be + +00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:13.020 +that. I can show... Sorry about that. + +00:07:14.960 --> 00:07:15.460 +For example, I show that in the... + +00:07:21.780 --> 00:07:22.280 +I can show... So the... + +00:07:27.080 --> 00:07:27.540 +It's not that different from Emacs regarding + +00:07:28.940 --> 00:07:29.440 +configuration. So for example, + +00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:31.520 +this command doesn't exist on LEM. + +00:07:35.020 --> 00:07:35.520 +And Sasaki-san didn't want to copy one-to-one + +00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:36.860 +the command from Emacs, + +00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:39.860 +the airgrip, the cursor grip command of + +00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:41.620 +Emacs. And I said, okay, + +00:07:43.080 --> 00:07:43.440 +then I'm going to implement it myself. + +00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:44.740 +And it's something like this, + +00:07:47.960 --> 00:07:48.080 +which is you will do something similar to + +00:07:50.320 --> 00:07:50.500 +Emacs, right? This will be like things at + +00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:52.780 +point symbol or something like that. + +00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:55.240 +And then you have a prompt, + +00:07:59.060 --> 00:07:59.440 +very prompt for directory with Emacs would be + +00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:01.560 +something similar. And then you then launch + +00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:03.460 +grep with the command that you want. + +00:08:06.340 --> 00:08:06.780 +This is not that far from Emacs, + +00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:10.840 +this, really. If you don't know neither of + +00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:13.240 +those, you can still use LEM, + +00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.060 +though as with Emacs, extensibility will be, + +00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:22.760 +well, you couldn't extend it if you don't + +00:08:28.700 --> 00:08:29.100 +know combo disp. Should I answer the question + +00:08:33.280 --> 00:08:33.780 +on the etherpad writing it at the same time? + +00:08:36.580 --> 00:08:36.760 +[Speaker 1]: You're welcome to, but you don't have to. + +00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:38.500 +You can just answer here on stream, + +00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:40.940 +[Speaker 2]: on the Google button. Okay. + +00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:43.640 +Okay. Are there any Lisp machine capabilities + +00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:45.280 +you're trying to provide that GNU image + +00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:47.040 +lacks? The type objects capability in the + +00:08:47.560 --> 00:08:48.060 +editor, as an example. + +00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:54.340 +I mean, there were a few discussions about + +00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:00.060 +the Lisp machines and LEM and all the big + +00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:03.280 +projects that tries to get some capability of + +00:09:05.180 --> 00:09:05.680 +it. But we don't really... + +00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.340 +We try to improve the development experience + +00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:13.300 +for Common Lisp and for LEM, + +00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:18.660 +imitating a lot of things that the Lisp + +00:09:21.560 --> 00:09:22.060 +machine had. I'm going to try to do a thing + +00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:23.900 +that I don't know if it's going to work. + +00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:27.380 +So to explain this, let's see. + +00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:36.180 +I'm going to recompile them now live. + +00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:42.540 +Let's see how it works. + +00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:48.240 +And compiling the, yes, + +00:09:51.780 --> 00:09:52.280 +it doesn't work. OK. What if I do? + +00:09:53.900 --> 00:09:54.220 +No, it doesn't work. OK. + +00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:55.760 +I was trying to compile the SDL2, + +00:09:57.540 --> 00:09:58.040 +but I do have the codebase modifier. + +00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:00.860 +I should be able to compile this. + +00:10:05.640 --> 00:10:06.140 +Oh, that was really bad. + +00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:13.580 +What about example? I have the code base, + +00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:17.720 +so let me check. I'm going to do this. + +00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:19.580 +Oh, yeah, I have this modified. + +00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:31.620 +I stash this. OK. I have this modified. + +00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:33.780 +Now it should work. OK. + +00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:42.820 +Sorry. I was going to show the writing + +00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:45.900 +capabilities of it, similar to the Lisp + +00:10:47.800 --> 00:10:48.300 +machine of navigating of classes. + +00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:52.500 +So the answer of that question is, + +00:10:57.040 --> 00:10:57.180 +not really. We don't try to emulate this + +00:10:58.440 --> 00:10:58.940 +machine, nor any like of that. + +00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:06.000 +But yeah. Let me, I'm going to try to, + +00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:07.620 +okay, now I'm back at them. + +00:11:12.180 --> 00:11:12.500 +Okay. So what about using them for things + +00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:13.760 +other than common, common, + +00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:16.500 +that markets? Okay. So yes, + +00:11:18.280 --> 00:11:18.480 +we do have, so I'm going to show the code + +00:11:20.280 --> 00:11:20.780 +base a little bit. Like I said before, + +00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.600 +we don't have yet too much external packages + +00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:27.000 +because of the size of the community. + +00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:30.940 +I have a question. Go ahead, + +00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:32.660 +you can write it, Michael. + +00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:38.300 +Yeah. So, yes, as you can see here, + +00:11:43.900 --> 00:11:44.340 +this is almost all, or 99% of the major modes + +00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:46.620 +we have. We use the same terminology of + +00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:48.140 +SkinnyMemax in that way. + +00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:49.440 +For example, the C mode, + +00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:51.580 +if you go inside, you see that this is the + +00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:53.980 +fine major mode. So in that regard, + +00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:55.300 +it's very similar to Emacs. + +00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:57.100 +And we have something called a JIT, + +00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:58.820 +which is like a maggot. + +00:12:00.280 --> 00:12:00.780 +And you can edit files. + +00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:02.980 +You can use not only for common lists. + +00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:07.320 +In my configuration, which is written, + +00:12:11.140 --> 00:12:11.640 +I will post that later, + +00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:15.640 +but if you go to my code burg you can see my + +00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:16.960 +configuration which is, + +00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:20.640 +which I do have. So for example you can use + +00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:22.760 +it for a scheme. We have a swank server. + +00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:24.340 +This is the configuration to use it. + +00:12:25.900 --> 00:12:26.040 +You can use it for JavaScript because we have + +00:12:28.180 --> 00:12:28.680 +a native LSP client written in. + +00:12:29.540 --> 00:12:29.800 +And we have Dired. Yeah, + +00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:34.320 +this is Dired. We have Dired indeed. + +00:12:35.560 --> 00:12:35.740 +No, it's not Dired, you know. + +00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:36.760 +It's called directory. + +00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:39.360 +Sasaki-san, which is the main maintainer, + +00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:43.600 +doesn't like to copy one-to-one Emacs names, + +00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:49.200 +but we are the same. We also have projects, + +00:12:51.780 --> 00:12:52.280 +which is like projectile. + +00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:55.240 +So, you know, they're very similar but not + +00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:57.440 +the same. We also have a VI configuration, + +00:12:59.220 --> 00:12:59.380 +as you can see. I'm using the VI commands and + +00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:00.600 +stuff, and it's very good. + +00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:04.120 +I will say not as good as an evil because it + +00:13:06.680 --> 00:13:07.180 +still needs some polish, + +00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.500 +but it's getting there. + +00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:13.860 +So we can also program in JavaScript and a + +00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:16.660 +lot of LSP things, and Elixir, + +00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:19.100 +which was recently added by myself. + +00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:22.080 +And yeah, it's very fun to add new modes. + +00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.940 +OK, what else next? What about user-level + +00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:28.940 +things other than coding? + +00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:31.880 +What about using this in conjunction with + +00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:34.840 +Nix? Oh, so there's a big, + +00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:37.480 +so like I said before, + +00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:40.200 +there were like an issue that 3 main common + +00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:41.460 +list project were talking, + +00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:47.420 +some of the users. So the 3 main projects are + +00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:49.840 +LEM, probably, Nixed, and then StamWM, + +00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:53.000 +the 3 main, well, 3 big, + +00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:55.440 +common list projects that are trying to + +00:13:57.720 --> 00:13:58.040 +emulate an Emacs experience in different + +00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:00.340 +fields. 1 is Editor, the other 1 is Window + +00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.220 +Manager, and the 1 is the browser. + +00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:06.820 +The problem is that the design of the 3 are + +00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:11.960 +very different. So Nix is very focused on the + +00:14:14.900 --> 00:14:15.060 +browser. You can connect to Nix. + +00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:16.920 +So given that they're both a common list, + +00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:19.160 +you can connect to Nix from them and vice + +00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:21.600 +versa. And you can send commands and you can, + +00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:23.080 +so you have this kind of interoperability + +00:14:31.420 --> 00:14:31.580 +with both. But no, you cannot combine both to + +00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:35.780 +have 1 LEMNIX. That would be very sick. + +00:14:39.400 --> 00:14:39.600 +I would love it. But the effort is just too + +00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:41.280 +much. Keep in mind we are a very small + +00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:45.060 +community. The LEM, like I said, + +00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.140 +we are like 345 developers that write + +00:14:51.880 --> 00:14:52.380 +packages and answer questions and stuff. + +00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:55.880 +Now we need users in that way to test things. + +00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:58.820 +So what is the license of LEM? + +00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:00.980 +The license of LEM is MAT. + +00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:03.180 +We have some components of all the various + +00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:04.980 +licenses, but the main 1 is MAT. + +00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:07.660 +I didn't choose the license of it. + +00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:11.820 +I would highly prefer a more like GPL 1, + +00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:14.000 +but like I said I'm not a maintainer, + +00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:16.360 +so the license is MAT. + +00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:20.320 +This question, I realize, + +00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:22.200 +how far is LEM from being able to remove a + +00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:26.940 +list libraries? OK, that's a big question + +00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:30.920 +indeed. And Funny enough, + +00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.300 +2 years ago in the EmacsConf, + +00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:34.700 +I talk about this, not with LEM, + +00:15:36.340 --> 00:15:36.480 +but with Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp in + +00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:42.100 +general. So I'm not the only 1 thinking about + +00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:44.240 +this. In fact, I'm talking with someone that + +00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:46.960 +is trying to write like a Emacs Lisp + +00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:48.620 +interpreter to work with them. + +00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:52.740 +The thing is that Emaclist libraries, + +00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:55.580 +so the API is just very different. + +00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.220 +That's the main problem. + +00:15:58.940 --> 00:15:59.440 +That's really the problem. + +00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:02.820 +You can, so you can, let me see. + +00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880 +So, you can have an Emacs list buffer of LEM. + +00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:15.920 +This is an Emacs list rebel. + +00:16:21.380 --> 00:16:21.560 +I wrote an LRSP client so you can connect to + +00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:23.560 +Emacs and send things and stuff. + +00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:25.660 +So you're friends that we share stuff. + +00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:28.840 +But having a complete Emacless implementation + +00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:37.600 +with LEM and work with both API will be a + +00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:42.600 +huge work. Very like, it's even if they share + +00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.180 +very similar thing, in fact, + +00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.980 +API in some places is very similar. + +00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:49.040 +Down the line infrastructure, + +00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:52.720 +so the code is, so it's completely different. + +00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:56.840 +It will be very hard. We do have a clone of + +00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.440 +maggot that works, more or less. + +00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:01.940 +Well, it does work, but maggot's just better. + +00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.820 +But it's getting there. + +00:17:05.020 --> 00:17:05.460 +So like I said, we're trying to, + +00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:06.720 +not to copy one-to-one, + +00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.140 +but to adapting each tool to LEM. + +00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:13.760 +How are LEM buffer designs similar to Emacs? + +00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:20.020 +So yeah, that would be, + +00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:21.760 +so how a blend buffer design, + +00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:25.280 +similar to Emacs. So similar in what way, + +00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.819 +actually with properties. + +00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:29.480 +I think that you've seen, + +00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:31.560 +so you do have like a font lock, + +00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:32.920 +different kind of properties, + +00:17:37.820 --> 00:17:38.040 +but it's not exactly how Emac does it with + +00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:42.180 +overlays and stuff. You can, + +00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:43.580 +so if you're very interested, + +00:17:45.300 --> 00:17:45.800 +I don't want to go too much deep into the, + +00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:51.720 +let me go to, I don't want to go too much + +00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:55.760 +deep into the technicality of things now, + +00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:58.080 +but you can go. So LEM is written 100% in + +00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:00.380 +Common Lisp. So if you know Common Lisp, + +00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:04.040 +you can go to buffer. You can check all the + +00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:09.020 +codes here. Always we have, + +00:18:12.780 --> 00:18:13.280 +we also have this, which is like StreamX. + +00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:18.360 +Sorry to that, I don't. + +00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:22.400 +But yeah, So you can see. + +00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:24.940 +So yeah, if you go to the code base, + +00:18:26.780 --> 00:18:27.280 +maybe some of you can check this problem. + +00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:29.000 +Well, not problem, but yeah. + +00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:30.840 +That's this Japanese comment. + +00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:36.060 +You can see here why it's very, + +00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.300 +you have to translate and stuff, + +00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:40.060 +which is sometimes a little bit annoying. + +00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:45.040 +But yeah, some of them are in English. + +00:18:47.020 --> 00:18:47.440 +So this play is not the same. + +00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.200 +So if you're interested, + +00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:51.400 +you can go to the buffer and check it out for + +00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:53.600 +yourself. But I think it uses the overlay in + +00:18:58.620 --> 00:18:58.900 +a different way. So the implementation is + +00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:05.020 +different that way. Oh, + +00:19:10.875 --> 00:19:11.375 +[Speaker 0]: This module. Oh, this is very low. + +00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:13.060 +[Speaker 2]: this is fairly low. What other things or + +00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:15.600 +experiences that I can show you? + +00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.420 +Just like you show you. + +00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:18.620 +Any marks? + +00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360 +Okay, very interesting question. + +00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.500 +What are the things... + +00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:37.960 +So that's interesting. + +00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.220 +Let me see. So forgive me, + +00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:49.760 +you answered this. I talked briefly in the + +00:19:53.560 --> 00:19:53.780 +talk about this, but basically I like + +00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:56.340 +Komaldisp, I have the mascot here. + +00:19:58.040 --> 00:19:58.540 +[Speaker 3]: a very + +00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:04.840 +[Speaker 2]: It's Italian thing. I like Common Lisp and I + +00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.800 +think GmagLisp is a very good friend of + +00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:10.520 +Common Lisp in the way that Serious Software + +00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:12.340 +Analysis is a very good uncle. + +00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:19.300 +Let me answer first the 1. + +00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:24.620 +So I like to extend it in Common Lisp. + +00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:26.140 +I like the Common Lisp libraries. + +00:20:30.100 --> 00:20:30.360 +And I think them have a better design in + +00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:31.720 +terms of its 1 language, + +00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:33.980 +which I think is a nice strength. + +00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:36.660 +Like, 1 of the things that put me off when I + +00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.020 +was using Emacs, I love to extend the editor + +00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:41.100 +and to go inside and stuff. + +00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:43.520 +And 1 of the things that I'm not a big fan of + +00:20:44.820 --> 00:20:45.020 +C. If you're a fan of C, + +00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:47.240 +you will be very pleasant with finding C + +00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.660 +stuff, but I don't. So when I'm trying to + +00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:52.840 +hack an Emacs and go inside the things, + +00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:54.640 +I will control C code. + +00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:56.660 +That's not that interactive as the Emaclist + +00:20:59.340 --> 00:20:59.840 +1, and that would be like a fuzzball for me. + +00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:04.080 +I was always dreaming about that stuff, + +00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:05.820 +having like everything in 1 language. + +00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.160 +The thing that LEM does to me is like it + +00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:12.560 +allows me to extend the editor to modify + +00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.660 +also, to modify in Common Lisp. + +00:21:17.660 --> 00:21:18.160 +Also, I like the language and technology. + +00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:19.900 +It's a bold thing, right? + +00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:21.980 +It's a world language that I love, + +00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:24.240 +and Emacs that I love. + +00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:25.880 +Emacs, I'm a big fan of, + +00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:27.520 +or a user of GNU Emacs. + +00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:29.880 +And LEM is like Emacs plus Common Lisp, + +00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:30.900 +but with a different design. + +00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:32.860 +I don't want to, It's not a clone. + +00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:38.040 +I want to get this very clear that LEM is not + +00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:41.140 +a clone of Emacs. The sign is very different + +00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:43.500 +in a lot of ways. But it's very inspired, + +00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:44.880 +and that cannot be denied. + +00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:48.780 +[Speaker 1]: I can jump in for a second. + +00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:51.360 +I think we're like 15 minutes into the lunch + +00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:53.040 +break, but you're welcome to continue + +00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:55.760 +answering questions. But if anyone on the + +00:21:57.500 --> 00:21:58.000 +stream or folks want to go grab lunch, + +00:21:59.760 --> 00:21:59.860 +feel free to do that. I'm probably going to + +00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.040 +do that as well. But yeah, + +00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:03.920 +we can either continue keeping this on the + +00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:06.440 +stream, or if people would like to come join + +00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:09.100 +here on BigBlueButton and talk to Fermin, + +00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:11.540 +like folks have already done that, + +00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:12.940 +yeah, you're welcome to. + +00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:15.120 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah, go ahead. No problem. + +00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:17.000 +Thank you. Thank you, Vitaliy. + +00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:25.280 +Cheers. Cheers. So finishing the answer to + +00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:30.380 +the question, I think LEM does tries to fix + +00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.380 +some Emacs problems, can we fix problems + +00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:35.700 +regarding the internal API, + +00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.480 +which makes sense, right? + +00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:39.560 +Emacs have like 40 years, + +00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:42.780 +which is a lot. And yeah, + +00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:45.060 +which is, that's what makes me happy. + +00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:47.720 +I use both now. I use Maggis and Emacs for + +00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:50.460 +some languages and then I use LEM for Common + +00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:51.600 +Lisp and other languages. + +00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:55.740 +You can also use LEM for EmacLisp, + +00:22:59.760 --> 00:22:59.960 +which makes LEM the second best editor for + +00:23:02.360 --> 00:23:02.860 +EmacLisp. It was a funny thing to do. + +00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:06.100 +OK, so do you think LEM will continue to have + +00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:07.260 +a lot of Japanese documentation? + +00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:12.180 +So there's not that many Japanese + +00:23:12.780 --> 00:23:13.280 +documentation, really. + +00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:18.480 +So there's a few comments here and there, + +00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.920 +but it's not full. We have a web page with a + +00:23:22.020 --> 00:23:22.520 +lot of documentation in English. + +00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:25.880 +So you can take a look at that. + +00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:29.580 +But we do have to improve the documentation + +00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:30.760 +and translate it to English. + +00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.440 +Sasaki-san is up to it, + +00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:35.960 +but he just doesn't feel that comfortable + +00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:37.100 +translating it himself. + +00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:39.180 +So yeah. + +00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:43.220 +[Speaker 3]: So, this is Peter on BigBlueWem. + +00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:50.120 +Yeah, it's neat that Wem even exists, + +00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:55.940 +because there's always chatter on the Emacs + +00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.280 +mailing list to rewrite Emacs and some other + +00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.120 +language. And to see that it's already to see + +00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:05.820 +that I mean, you have an implementation + +00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:08.560 +sitting there and, and the thing I was + +00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.960 +wondering while I was listening in on the, + +00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:14.460 +on the Q and A was do you have Dured? + +00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:15.700 +Do you have Maggot? And some, + +00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:17.600 +somebody else wrote that question into, + +00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:20.640 +into Etherpad. But I was happy to see that + +00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:23.000 +you have Dured or something like it + +00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.440 +implemented. Because I think that's like the, + +00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:27.180 +for me, that's the most important thing in + +00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:31.000 +Emacs because that gets me around in my + +00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:35.380 +[Speaker 2]: BRODINKOVICH Yeah, for me too. + +00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:36.240 +For me too. + +00:24:37.100 --> 00:24:37.260 +[Speaker 0]: Go ahead. + +00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:37.940 +[Speaker 3]: system. VICTOR Sorry. Yeah, + +00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:40.160 +so I may try it out sometime, + +00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:42.540 +but probably won't be for like 3 or 6 months, + +00:24:45.060 --> 00:24:45.240 +because there's always a backlog of other + +00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:47.060 +things to try out. + +00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:50.300 +[Speaker 4]: I'm the 1 who wrote that question. + +00:24:54.020 --> 00:24:54.520 +And do you use, I think you have bookmarks + +00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:55.800 +and registers, I imagine, + +00:24:55.800 --> 00:24:56.300 +right? + +00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:00.060 +[Speaker 2]: I think you have. I never tried bookmarks + +00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:01.400 +because I don't use it that much. + +00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:03.060 +But I think you have something like that. + +00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:05.840 +I mean, I don't. There's a few features that + +00:25:07.360 --> 00:25:07.540 +I don't know about them because I don't use + +00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:08.980 +it much. Some features, + +00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:11.840 +I mean. But yeah, I think you have. + +00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:13.380 +Let me check. We can check, + +00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:17.120 +probably. Things in extensions, + +00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:23.480 +just directory. VNXT. Directory mode. + +00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:29.450 +So there is. So this is the Tyrant's friend. + +00:25:31.780 --> 00:25:32.230 +I won't say clone. Very inspired. + +00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:36.900 +[Speaker 4]: What about like on the note-taking front, + +00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:38.940 +like org mode, + +00:25:41.040 --> 00:25:41.380 +[Speaker 2]: You know. note... Yes, + +00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:50.940 +so... EMMS... Yes, so someone did some MMS. + +00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:58.620 +So not MMS, not much. So package for LEM that + +00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:00.400 +is now in a pull request, + +00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:04.300 +I think. But yeah, no. + +00:26:06.800 --> 00:26:07.300 +The thing is I don't use R mode that much. + +00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:12.480 +We don't have a heavy R mode user to provide + +00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:15.300 +some major mode and stuff. + +00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.600 +So we don't have that implemented yet. + +00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:20.900 +The thing is, my plans for, + +00:26:22.360 --> 00:26:22.860 +I do have plans for our mode. + +00:26:24.020 --> 00:26:24.520 +They're a little bit evil, + +00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:26.700 +but there's plans for it. + +00:26:27.800 --> 00:26:28.040 +So I'm planning to use, + +00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.060 +so rewriting our mode is a big task that I + +00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:34.700 +don't want to do. So I'm going to use Emacs + +00:26:39.020 --> 00:26:39.520 +for our mode in 2.11. I wrote a recipe, + +00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:45.380 +no, a remote procedural RPC that I'm using + +00:26:46.860 --> 00:26:47.360 +for the Red Bull and stuff. + +00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.200 +And I'm planning to have an Emacs Puppet to + +00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.220 +provide me the functionality for Org Mode. + +00:26:59.380 --> 00:26:59.760 +[Speaker 4]: I know for me, when I write notes, + +00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:01.940 +I like to note more than Org Roam just + +00:27:06.340 --> 00:27:06.840 +because I feel Org Mode is great and all, + +00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:09.060 +but if all my notes are in it, + +00:27:10.260 --> 00:27:10.760 +I kind of feel trapped by it. + +00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.960 +I did the talk journaling in KOutline, + +00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:18.040 +and I like that package better for some + +00:27:21.040 --> 00:27:21.260 +things and it's like if I want to put like + +00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:24.780 +the tags on PDF file names and so it's like + +00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:29.100 +Yeah, it's great and all but it's also Is + +00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:31.740 +that part of the motivation of wanting to use + +00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:35.120 +lamb is so you feel less entrapped by emacs + +00:27:38.445 --> 00:27:38.840 +No, I will say I don't no. + +00:27:40.620 --> 00:27:41.120 +[Speaker 2]: No, no. I was very happy trapping to Emacs. + +00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:47.560 +To be fair. The thing is I don't use Hormel + +00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.100 +that much. That's just the reality. + +00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:52.580 +Org Mode for me is a very good markup + +00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:54.810 +language, but not that much really. + +00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.420 +I know that Org Mode has a lot of people and + +00:27:58.740 --> 00:27:59.060 +it's used by a lot of people. + +00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:00.560 +And there's very interesting packages. + +00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:04.200 +[Speaker 4]: What about org mode versus markdown versus + +00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:06.300 +plain text versus latex then? + +00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:08.860 +[Speaker 2]: I like org mode because of the Emacs + +00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:10.880 +functionality. I think if you take that away, + +00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:16.100 +you plain or mode versus Markdown, + +00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:18.080 +I don't think there's that much difference, + +00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:20.460 +if you take the Emacs functionality away. + +00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:24.880 +I like the + +00:28:27.260 --> 00:28:27.760 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah. Emacs syntax more than Markdown. + +00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:29.900 +Like, for instance, you have the double + +00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:31.960 +square brackets, which is simpler for me to + +00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.000 +look at, but. + +00:28:35.820 --> 00:28:36.060 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I guess it's a matter of, + +00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:38.640 +I mean, we don't have yet a major mode of R + +00:28:39.800 --> 00:28:40.300 +mode, which will be quite trivial. + +00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:43.160 +Well, you know, a simple syntax highlights, + +00:28:46.040 --> 00:28:46.540 +you know, R mode in LEM, + +00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:52.960 +because no 1 wrote it. + +00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:55.640 +I mean, that's the way with this project, + +00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:00.360 +right? If you need people to be motivated to + +00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:04.620 +do that. And with LEM, + +00:29:06.540 --> 00:29:07.040 +someone asked about the Japanese. + +00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:11.820 +I think they're interested about that. + +00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.420 +LEM does have a thing, + +00:29:16.030 --> 00:29:16.095 +[Speaker 0]: If the it would be good. + +00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:17.160 +[Speaker 4]: I'd be able to do more, + +00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.500 +but that's what I + +00:29:19.370 --> 00:29:19.870 +[Speaker 0]: was doing. + +00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:22.820 +[Speaker 2]: they think True. So, for example, + +00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:24.740 +we're using another big fan of... + +00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:28.080 +I mean, I know that the main people that may + +00:29:30.280 --> 00:29:30.780 +use in the future LEM are EMACLIS people. + +00:29:33.080 --> 00:29:33.580 +A lot of them. It's very similar. + +00:29:37.540 --> 00:29:37.940 +And Sasaki-san and the LEM community mainly + +00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:43.760 +uses Discord for chat and stuff. + +00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:47.480 +I mean, we do have matrix, + +00:29:48.540 --> 00:29:48.640 +and I should connect to it, + +00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.320 +by the way. But we mainly use Discord, + +00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:58.580 +which I don't think is a good thing. + +00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:02.300 +I mean, to have the main communication + +00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:05.520 +channels, Discord. Because, + +00:30:09.020 --> 00:30:09.520 +well, it's Discord. It's a closed source + +00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:13.440 +application that is easy for some people, + +00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:14.840 +but for some people it's a tailbreak. + +00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:17.080 +[Speaker 0]: are in + +00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:18.080 +[Speaker 2]: Especially people that the Emacs community + +00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580 +that very like free software. + +00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:23.300 +[Speaker 4]: The only good thing about Molesley is it's + +00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:26.380 +popular, but as soon as you break out of that + +00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:28.520 +mold, all of a sudden it becomes a lot + +00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:30.900 +harder. For instance, they don't have... + +00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:34.320 +All the third-party clients are unofficial + +00:30:37.340 --> 00:30:37.500 +and according to their terms of service they + +00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:40.600 +can just can you. Which is not a nice + +00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:44.180 +position to be in if you're trying to use it + +00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:47.700 +and you wanted to be a moderator using some + +00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:51.100 +side tools that weren't Discord. + +00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:55.560 +[Speaker 2]: I agree 100% and in fact I'm not a big fan, + +00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.900 +I don't like Discord. + +00:31:03.860 --> 00:31:04.360 +[Speaker 5]: You mentioned the RPC you did between Emacs + +00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:06.700 +and the LEM. Do you have it published + +00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.220 +somewhere? + +00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:14.020 +[Speaker 2]: Yes, it's in the LEM project. + +00:31:15.820 --> 00:31:16.320 +I'll copy that in the chat. + +00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:19.340 +[Speaker 5]: Okay, because I'm always interested in how + +00:31:21.560 --> 00:31:22.060 +you do like the communication with other + +00:31:24.020 --> 00:31:24.320 +programs with Emacs because that's + +00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:24.820 +interesting. + +00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:30.640 +[Speaker 2]: I'm only using the porthole package, + +00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:32.960 +I'm not writing it from scratch, + +00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:34.840 +not that much as a developer. + +00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:37.960 +[Speaker 5]: So I don't know this package. + +00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:39.640 +Maybe that's the thing I can learn. + +00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:41.140 +[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, probably if you, + +00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:42.740 +yeah. Yeah. If you want to, + +00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:44.360 +so I didn't see this 1, + +00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:46.920 +this package for the RSP, + +00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:49.120 +which make is monthly automatically. + +00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.600 +[Speaker 5]: And how do you do, how do you plan to + +00:31:59.180 --> 00:31:59.440 +integrate Org Mode? Because Org Mode needs to + +00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:00.260 +work on. + +00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:03.540 +[Speaker 2]: This way? Yes, so I'm planning to have like a + +00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:08.760 +Emacs puppet and to have like a clone buffer + +00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:11.820 +from the buffer that you do in LEM and then + +00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.380 +the command sent into the Emacs hidden buffer + +00:32:19.820 --> 00:32:20.140 +and then the changes go back to LEM to change + +00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:23.160 +the buffer of LEM. That's my idea. + +00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:25.460 +[Speaker 5]: Okay, that's all. It's interesting. + +00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:28.540 +Would be interesting to see what comes from + +00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:29.040 +it. + +00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:32.780 +[Speaker 2]: It's a bit, it's a hackish 100%. + +00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:35.320 +It's not, you have to duplicate the + +00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:36.520 +information and stuff, + +00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:39.140 +which is, oh, by the way, + +00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:40.820 +I'm going to pass the Lemington, + +00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:43.880 +which is the name of the RSP clone. + +00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:46.480 +Sorry, the integration with Emacs, + +00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:49.400 +which is LEM with a mustache. + +00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:54.600 +[Speaker 4]: They had good news where it would do the same + +00:32:56.360 --> 00:32:56.860 +thing, where it would open up a slave Emacs, + +00:33:00.020 --> 00:33:00.520 +because it was such a performance hog for + +00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:02.640 +retrieving all the emails. + +00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:07.360 +[Speaker 2]: No. I mean, Emacs have a server, + +00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:08.860 +right? I can, in fact, + +00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:11.700 +I'm using that for, I'm already puppeting. + +00:33:13.340 --> 00:33:13.620 +Well, not puppeting. I'm already using + +00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:16.200 +Maggots. So I have this. + +00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:17.900 +Actually, let me copy. + +00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:25.920 +I have this, which is usually a little bit, + +00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:28.420 +I'm launching the Emacs daemon and then I'm + +00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:31.740 +launching Leviton. And then this is the kill + +00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:32.700 +and this is the status, + +00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:33.940 +which is basically saying, + +00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:37.180 +run this and this is this, + +00:33:42.040 --> 00:33:42.540 +which is run maggot in this file. + +00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:44.340 +If you put it side by side, + +00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:48.800 +you will check instantly that this is the + +00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:51.400 +buffer directory, LEM home, + +00:33:54.020 --> 00:33:54.520 +and then the current file. + +00:33:58.860 --> 00:33:59.360 +Because I'm launching it with the file. + +00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:04.240 +So buffer directory, which is the directory + +00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:09.739 +of the buffer. So I'm already using maggot as + +00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:14.080 +a tool outside of LEM, + +00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.060 +because I really like maggot. + +00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:17.420 +And this is very easy to check. + +00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:23.219 +Launch Emacs daemon. Okay. + +00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:29.080 +And then I go to local projects. + +00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:32.219 +Let's go to another 1 that is not LEM. + +00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:37.400 +[Speaker 4]: You actually have weird ideas like running it + +00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:39.860 +in daemon mode so you don't ever have to + +00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.340 +restart it or the images, + +00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:43.600 +I guess, that LEM has. + +00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.300 +[Speaker 2]: LEM does not have this kind of, + +00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:54.060 +I will call it, it doesn't have like a demon + +00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:56.780 +mode, so you have control separately, + +00:34:58.860 --> 00:34:59.360 +but keep in mind that LEM, + +00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:01.680 +it's a common list program. + +00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:03.840 +So if you use slime or Sly, + +00:35:10.080 --> 00:35:10.580 +you can easily connect to them to hack on it. + +00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:12.880 +[Speaker 4]: ever use that functionality, + +00:35:14.060 --> 00:35:14.560 +like using it from another computer? + +00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:16.900 +[Speaker 2]: Do you Another computer, + +00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:18.100 +I think the same computer, + +00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:21.620 +or maybe Sage, but yeah, + +00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:22.320 +it's very... + +00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.020 +[Speaker 4]: Or from like your window, + +00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:27.140 +if you were using the window... + +00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:28.580 +I can't remember the name of the window + +00:35:30.100 --> 00:35:30.600 +manager. Or if you were using... + +00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:36.960 +What? Yeah, yeah. Or using like stump, + +00:35:40.680 --> 00:35:40.760 +calling it from like stump WM or how often do + +00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:42.000 +you use that REPL? + +00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:43.940 +[Speaker 2]: SPCL? No. ThumbWM? I use it quite a lot. + +00:35:44.700 --> 00:35:45.200 +I connect to a museum, + +00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:49.760 +some WM right now, and I use LEM to connect + +00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:52.740 +to it, but I was using Emacs before. + +00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:55.960 +And you can use Sly or Slime to connect to + +00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:58.520 +LEM. So the thing that is in Common List + +00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:01.400 +makes it this kind of already out-of-the-box + +00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:04.280 +connectivity between different... + +00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.460 +[Speaker 4]: How many window managers have you used? + +00:36:11.120 --> 00:36:11.400 +I've used that before. + +00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:13.780 +I've also used, like right now I'm using + +00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:15.220 +Sway. I've used Xmonad, + +00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:16.760 +DWM. + +00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:23.540 +[Speaker 2]: This is awesome. What is the other 1? + +00:36:25.680 --> 00:36:26.180 +I can't remember the name. + +00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.380 +But it was like a few years ago. + +00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:31.020 +I've been doing some DWM for like the last + +00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:36.760 +[Speaker 4]: I remember that. Go ahead. + +00:36:37.740 --> 00:36:38.240 +[Speaker 2]: year, I think. Or 3. know, + +00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:42.440 +it's that I was... I don't know. + +00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:43.520 +[Speaker 0]: I don't a couple + +00:36:44.040 --> 00:36:44.540 +[Speaker 2]: I'd like to have of days of my... + +00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:48.400 +[Speaker 4]: I remember that that window manager seemed to + +00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:53.600 +have some unique ideas that weren't + +00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:56.780 +necessarily available on like EWM and XMLNAD. + +00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:03.040 +[Speaker 2]: So SoundLM, it's an interesting project. + +00:37:05.140 --> 00:37:05.460 +But for example, I'll change... + +00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:07.080 +So I don't have in this computer, + +00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:08.680 +but in my other computer, + +00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.320 +I change the mod line or bar, + +00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:18.720 +top bar, whatever, because the ThunderLVM + +00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:22.000 +doesn't only update it when you click, + +00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:25.680 +or you do some events or happen 1 minute. + +00:37:27.560 --> 00:37:27.980 +So you can see here, this is not changing + +00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:28.820 +until I click. + +00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:33.720 +[Speaker 0]: That's it. + +00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:34.600 +[Speaker 3]: AUDIENCE 1 Matthew, sorry. + +00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:36.660 +I have a quick question for Matthew. + +00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:43.640 +So is your talk going to be posted or did you + +00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:47.920 +[Speaker 4]: Go ahead. I gave them a recording. + +00:37:50.140 --> 00:37:50.640 +My talk was the K outline for journaling + +00:37:53.080 --> 00:37:53.240 +[Speaker 3]: give it live? right right it was I woke up + +00:37:54.020 --> 00:37:54.520 +too late for it Sorry, + +00:37:58.420 --> 00:37:58.920 +so I came in and I just saw Bob Weiner + +00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:03.340 +answering questions So is your talk going to + +00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:07.060 +be on the page for your talk? + +00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:07.960 +I don't + +00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:09.060 +[Speaker 0]: see it there. + +00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:12.380 +[Speaker 4]: I could give you a link to it, + +00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:17.640 +because I had, I hosted it on Mega to give it + +00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:19.020 +to them, because when I emailed it, + +00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:22.200 +[Speaker 3]: Oh, okay. Is it + +00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:22.840 +[Speaker 4]: it didn't work. on a monkey? + +00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:24.100 +Download and watch it. + +00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.920 +I'm probably going to post it on YouTube + +00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:33.760 +later. I, I had my face record with it, + +00:38:36.020 --> 00:38:36.520 +but I never got it edited together in time + +00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:40.640 +[Speaker 3]: Okay, if you could if you can put the link + +00:38:43.140 --> 00:38:43.340 +onto the onto the ether pad or something or + +00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.160 +onto the wiki then then I can find it and + +00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:50.140 +check it out. All right, + +00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:53.480 +thanks. Sorry to interrupt your time, + +00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:56.440 +Fermin, but I figure we're heavily into the + +00:38:57.260 --> 00:38:57.760 +break anyways. FERMIN GENZIERIA-CHAPMANI + +00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:01.160 +[Speaker 2]: No problem. I'm in an EMAX conference talking + +00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:03.040 +about all that I mean I'm already doing + +00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:04.780 +blasphemy so I + +00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:24.800 +think that's oh yeah notes so the thing is + +00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:27.140 +then as my point of view, + +00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:29.360 +and the point of view probably of Sasaki-san, + +00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:30.740 +just a moment, I think, + +00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:35.220 +is very focused on an IDE more than a + +00:39:40.580 --> 00:39:41.080 +node-taking editor. More like an integrated + +00:39:41.540 --> 00:39:42.040 +development environment. + +00:39:45.040 --> 00:39:45.540 +So node is like a second thing. + +00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:52.000 +So not exactly the main focus. + +00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:54.780 +And I know that Emacs does have a very strong + +00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:58.940 +community of Ormode users that use Emacs for + +00:40:00.140 --> 00:40:00.244 +Ormode, which is the killer feature, + +00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:01.360 +1 of I'll do a feature. + +00:40:04.456 --> 00:40:04.956 +I'll do a feature of Emacs. + +00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:09.660 +So I'm not the maintainer of porthole. + +00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:20.580 +I'm sorry. I did add it to so I don't + +00:40:22.700 --> 00:40:23.040 +maintain the remote. I'm sorry, + +00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:27.840 +I'll pothole the USB. I'm only using it on + +00:40:31.120 --> 00:40:31.620 +the Lamington. I cannot change anything. + +00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:39.760 +[Speaker 4]: What are some interesting things you have + +00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:41.260 +with your window manager? + +00:40:43.780 --> 00:40:44.280 +I do have elsewhere. + +00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:49.600 +[Speaker 2]: I can connect to it and hack it from my + +00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:53.540 +editor, which I think is really fun. + +00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:57.220 +The way I can write, so I wrote a few + +00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.000 +packages for Soundallium. + +00:41:06.740 --> 00:41:07.240 +So 1 of them is Proton, + +00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:10.860 +which basically launches like a... + +00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:18.900 +So Proton is like this wine thing that Valve + +00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:22.500 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I'm a user. + +00:41:24.140 --> 00:41:24.640 +[Speaker 2]: did. OK, so this basically, + +00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:26.980 +you have like a list of, + +00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:32.540 +let me check. No, we're just, + +00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:39.020 +sorry. This, So these all games are bought by + +00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:41.780 +me. They're not pirates in any way. + +00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:46.300 +I can use this to to launch it. + +00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:51.200 +[Speaker 4]: Was that Dmenu or was that StumpWM menu? + +00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:55.240 +[Speaker 2]: This is Dmenu. So I have, + +00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:02.560 +I also contribute the Dmenu integration into + +00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:06.320 +StumwM. So I use Dmenu. + +00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:07.980 +So like this, right? + +00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:13.800 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah that's pretty cool. + +00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:15.940 +You don't know how nice those things are + +00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:17.380 +until you start using those. + +00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:21.780 +[Speaker 2]: The menu is very interesting and very... + +00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:24.560 +Also I was using RoFi, + +00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:26.000 +but... + +00:42:29.100 --> 00:42:29.540 +[Speaker 4]: I was also more... The other thing I was more + +00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:31.740 +mentioning is that also, + +00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:33.340 +being able to use D-Menu, + +00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:35.300 +but being able to just have keyboard + +00:42:38.680 --> 00:42:39.180 +oriented? Everything fuzzy search narrowed + +00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:45.480 +and No tabs no status bars like all of a + +00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:47.600 +sudden your mental model on how your computer + +00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:51.560 +operates goes through the roof and a lot of + +00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.400 +Emacs users Know what that is like Especially + +00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:01.740 +In conjunction with a window manager? + +00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:07.200 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think so. I remember when I was... + +00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:11.820 +So for me, I tried the Emacs window manager, + +00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:17.340 +but it wasn't for me. Having a single thread + +00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:18.960 +window manager is scary. + +00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:22.840 +And also games and some stuff wasn't working + +00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:25.240 +correctly, which it makes sense in some + +00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:27.840 +regards, using Emacs for window manager. + +00:43:30.660 --> 00:43:31.160 +Oh + +00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.980 +[Speaker 4]: I've used it before I found that it wasn't as + +00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:39.740 +like it. It's not as bad in practice because + +00:43:43.020 --> 00:43:43.260 +The paper cuts you don't like to hit them + +00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:46.000 +every day So you make sure So you make sure + +00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.400 +your Emacs config is a lot nicer and doesn't + +00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:51.300 +have those slowdowns. Or you avoid those + +00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:54.780 +things. It forces you to make your Emacs + +00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.940 +config a lot more robust to speed. + +00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:02.300 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah, yeah. That's true, + +00:44:04.200 --> 00:44:04.440 +yeah. The thing, yeah, + +00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:06.020 +but still, I don't know, + +00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:09.060 +[Speaker 4]: You'll still get the paper cuts, + +00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:09.560 +but... + +00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:12.660 +[Speaker 2]: like... Yeah, and my experience was not + +00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:16.880 +great. I'm not a person, + +00:44:17.860 --> 00:44:18.360 +like, I don't want to have... + +00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:20.460 +Not with LEM or Emacs. + +00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:23.160 +I like to have different programs. + +00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.120 +I don't want to like, I never was in like + +00:44:28.040 --> 00:44:28.540 +Emacs or you know, only Emacs. + +00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.800 +I really love Emacs, GNU Emacs, + +00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:34.140 +but only Emacs? No, no, + +00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:35.540 +I like my browser, I like my, + +00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.000 +you know, my Windows Manager, + +00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:41.780 +my, you know, I wasn't Emacs only. + +00:44:45.520 --> 00:44:46.000 +Emacs is my OS. Some people are, + +00:44:48.600 --> 00:44:49.100 +which is good. Different kind of a... + +00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:52.100 +I have to say that I come from Vim, + +00:44:57.340 --> 00:44:57.720 +like a long time ago. But I come from Vim, + +00:44:58.660 --> 00:44:58.980 +so I'm using Evil Mode. + +00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:00.780 +And I maybe have this kind of a... + +00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:06.200 +Yeah. So regarding Summoner.vm, + +00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:10.580 +it's... I like it because it's common Lisp, + +00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:14.440 +but it don't have some, + +00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:18.620 +this, I removed this. So I'm using another + +00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:21.340 +model line because the model line is not + +00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:24.720 +great. Everything else is a little bit weird + +00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:29.440 +because you have frames similar to Emacs. + +00:45:33.560 --> 00:45:34.060 +You have a frame. You have this window, + +00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:36.100 +and then there's no nothing here. + +00:45:37.700 --> 00:45:38.100 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I've used it before. + +00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:40.220 +That was definitely weird. + +00:45:41.680 --> 00:45:42.180 +It's also nice to be able to just... + +00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:44.160 +Can't you put multiple windows? + +00:45:46.100 --> 00:45:46.600 +Can't you duplicate windows? + +00:45:48.040 --> 00:45:48.540 +Show the same window in 2 frames? + +00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:49.060 +NIGEL + +00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:51.520 +[Speaker 2]: GANSZELA-WALSH Never tried that. + +00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900 +Never occurred to me that. + +00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:58.020 +I don't know. Never tried that, + +00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:01.980 +to be honest. Let me check. + +00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:07.780 +No idea. Item? I think so. + +00:46:10.080 --> 00:46:10.320 +Because when you try to, + +00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:11.980 +at least not in an easy way. + +00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:14.260 +When you try to, so if I try to put a window + +00:46:16.020 --> 00:46:16.520 +here, let me move it so it, + +00:46:20.060 --> 00:46:20.540 +and if I try to like, so it's, + +00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:21.890 +yeah, no other window. + +00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:24.360 +[Speaker 4]: So can you open the, what is that, + +00:46:25.080 --> 00:46:25.440 +discord or your browser? + +00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:27.340 +Could you open that in both your frames? + +00:46:34.620 --> 00:46:35.120 +[Speaker 2]: I can I Side by side, but not the same + +00:46:37.740 --> 00:46:37.920 +[Speaker 0]: I mean I do I can I can have I know + +00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:38.600 +[Speaker 4]: can't your frames? 2 browsers you can do that + +00:46:42.600 --> 00:46:43.100 +[Speaker 2]: browser I never occurred to me that, + +00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:46.800 +[Speaker 4]: in DWM? You can't do that in XMLNet, + +00:46:48.560 --> 00:46:49.060 +at least I don't know what configuration + +00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:51.020 +you'd have to do to get to be able to do that + +00:46:51.140 --> 00:46:51.640 +in XMONAD. + +00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:54.560 +[Speaker 2]: wow. Interesting. Maybe you can. + +00:46:57.700 --> 00:46:58.200 +I never tried. Maybe you can? + +00:47:03.240 --> 00:47:03.640 +No idea. The interesting thing that I never + +00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:06.360 +use is that floating windows. + +00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:09.960 +Never use floating windows, + +00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:13.780 +but normal windows. You know, + +00:47:17.780 --> 00:47:18.160 +not. And SoundWM does have a weird support + +00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:25.220 +for it. Now it works. But I don't like it. + +00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:27.180 +For me, it was a little bit rough, + +00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:29.980 +the use of floating windows in SoundWM. + +00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.980 +I think they're way better now. + +00:47:36.580 --> 00:47:37.080 +I think, but yeah, I don't use it so... + +00:47:40.600 --> 00:47:41.100 +But there is. + +00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:43.940 +[Speaker 4]: You know, for me with the, + +00:47:45.060 --> 00:47:45.480 +like, Emacs doing everything, + +00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:47.380 +it's like, you got like Emacs, + +00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:50.740 +you got shell, and then you got the gooey + +00:47:56.520 --> 00:47:56.760 +Wild West. Yeah. Like, + +00:47:58.940 --> 00:47:59.440 +with Emacs, I know, I'll generally get, + +00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:01.780 +oh, this is going to be configured in? + +00:48:04.160 --> 00:48:04.660 +It's either gonna be shell script, + +00:48:06.180 --> 00:48:06.340 +Python or Emacs. Oh wait, + +00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:07.500 +no, it's gonna be Emacs. + +00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:10.180 +Variable's gonna be written in SecQ, + +00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:10.880 +period. + +00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.140 +[Speaker 2]: Well, I don't use too much scripting, + +00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.540 +but I'd like to, for example, + +00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:22.040 +I had to do a, so the automatic installer + +00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:26.500 +for, for Debian base, Debian stuff for Linux + +00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:30.840 +for, for LEM. I was thinking of doing in bash + +00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:33.020 +and I say, I don't want to do it in Bash. + +00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:35.880 +So I just did it in SVC and Commodisp, + +00:48:37.660 --> 00:48:38.100 +which does have like a scripting feature. + +00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:41.040 +You can put a script and it will create your + +00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:41.660 +own script. + +00:48:45.860 --> 00:48:46.280 +[Speaker 4]: 1 of the main people behind Next, + +00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:50.880 +he did a talk on using Common Lisp as a + +00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:52.220 +replacement for a shell. + +00:48:58.700 --> 00:48:59.200 +[Speaker 2]: Yes, it was... I know him. + +00:49:00.680 --> 00:49:01.180 +I know that he exists. + +00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:04.900 +Next, I think it's a main maintainer of Nix, + +00:49:09.140 --> 00:49:09.620 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, although his website's kind of, + +00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:10.880 +I think he took it down. + +00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:12.780 +[Speaker 2]: Ambrevar. Yeah, I think he, + +00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:14.980 +yeah, he took it down. + +00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:17.680 +[Speaker 4]: So if you want to, you can look at it in Time + +00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:18.180 +Machine. + +00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:24.440 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I do have that article in my bookmarks, + +00:49:26.740 --> 00:49:27.240 +I think, somewhere. I remember reading that. + +00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:30.840 +So also, I would like to keep separated + +00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:33.380 +things in that way to have shell and then + +00:49:37.940 --> 00:49:38.440 +Emacs or LEM. Like for Emacs I use Viter. + +00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:41.260 +I don't like that it has different, + +00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.260 +you know. + +00:49:44.900 --> 00:49:45.060 +[Speaker 4]: On the same time though, + +00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:47.120 +I also don't like my terminal not to be able + +00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:52.600 +to click URLs and I like I like my terminal + +00:49:54.560 --> 00:49:55.060 +to have history and you know to scroll + +00:49:58.040 --> 00:49:58.200 +position copy paste You can do some of that + +00:50:00.020 --> 00:50:00.160 +stuff, but you know how that stuff go on the + +00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:02.080 +killer ring I kind of view it as like an + +00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:03.300 +alternative to shell. + +00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:07.080 +[Speaker 2]: Fair enough, but I think when some for my + +00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:09.220 +terminal, I only use it for navigate, + +00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:11.780 +remove stuff, so basic stuff. + +00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:14.640 +When I have to like, I don't know, + +00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:18.140 +edit something, just open the... + +00:50:22.120 --> 00:50:22.400 +[Speaker 4]: I like to use completion and narrowing to + +00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:24.720 +find my files. I kind of wish I could do that + +00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:26.600 +[Speaker 0]: on the shell or like if you use + +00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:27.640 +[Speaker 4]: more D-Menu to do that. + +00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:28.760 +That would be, I'm sure, + +00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:29.260 +nicer. + +00:50:38.140 --> 00:50:38.240 +[Speaker 2]: There's a lot of tools for terminals to do + +00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:39.880 +that, right? But you have to configure all of + +00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.780 +them. Beam users are very aware of those + +00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:47.300 +tools. You know, having very good fuzzy + +00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:49.440 +finding of files and then all by the + +00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:54.100 +terminal. I do have a friend who is a user of + +00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:57.320 +the Forbidden Editor, he's good, + +00:51:01.900 --> 00:51:02.400 +that does have a lot of small, + +00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:09.980 +like fuzzy finding, and so complete commands, + +00:51:12.240 --> 00:51:12.740 +and call those images in the terminal, + +00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:14.800 +all sorts of crazy stuff. + +00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:16.620 +That I think are not overkill, + +00:51:20.380 --> 00:51:20.560 +but I mean, if you want to use it, + +00:51:29.540 --> 00:51:30.040 +go ahead. So yeah. The thing is that, + +00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:32.860 +So trickling back a little bit to LEM, + +00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:35.860 +I think an interesting thought that I have + +00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:37.780 +about LEM and I can do Emacs. + +00:51:40.680 --> 00:51:41.180 +Not now, because LEM is a very small, + +00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:44.240 +like literally people, + +00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.500 +at least developers and users, + +00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:50.780 +I don't know, maybe 10 less. + +00:51:56.780 --> 00:51:57.280 +But people may think, split the community, + +00:51:58.740 --> 00:51:58.900 +right? That's the main thing that should come + +00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:00.460 +to my mind, split the community, + +00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:02.140 +maybe you, because that's true. + +00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:04.280 +I mean, I'm not developing that much in Nui + +00:52:06.260 --> 00:52:06.760 +MacLisp because I'm developing them. + +00:52:12.080 --> 00:52:12.580 +That's not that I'm a force that you might + +00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:13.860 +think exists or anything, + +00:52:17.220 --> 00:52:17.400 +but you know, you're splitting a very small + +00:52:21.600 --> 00:52:21.760 +community. Not that LEM wants to do that or + +00:52:24.160 --> 00:52:24.360 +anything, or will be able to in any way, + +00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:25.780 +but you know what I mean. + +00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:32.780 +I thought about that, And I think it's an + +00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:40.800 +interesting concern. But that concern also + +00:52:42.180 --> 00:52:42.680 +stops innovation in some way. + +00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:47.460 +[Speaker 4]: I think you can, if you look at the example + +00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:50.680 +of how many EMAX talks are related to + +00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:54.960 +knowledge management and not all and like for + +00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.100 +instance denote and Orgrim don't really work + +00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:01.880 +together all that well they split the + +00:53:03.740 --> 00:53:03.960 +community so to say I don't think they make + +00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:05.220 +it weaker at all, though. + +00:53:08.560 --> 00:53:08.800 +I think you were saying competition is good, + +00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:10.500 +but yeah, competition is good. + +00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:12.360 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I agree on that. + +00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:13.780 +I want to put it in the... + +00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:15.900 +But, you know, I'm doing the devil's advocate + +00:53:18.252 --> 00:53:18.271 +[Speaker 0]: something, that's... The developer gates in + +00:53:18.308 --> 00:53:18.327 +this regard. Like + +00:53:18.327 --> 00:53:18.346 +[Speaker 2]: in this regard. If someone wants to say if + +00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:19.780 +someone wants to like say something that + +00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:23.160 +maybe, you know, because some people still + +00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:30.940 +remember the Emacs versus X Emacs thing in + +00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.360 +the past, you know, that the split of the and + +00:53:38.100 --> 00:53:38.240 +That was good in some way but also bad in + +00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:39.960 +others like the compatibility was a little + +00:53:42.560 --> 00:53:43.040 +bit of a hell You know at the end Emacs + +00:53:46.160 --> 00:53:46.440 +failed, no Emacs But at that time it wasn't + +00:53:50.140 --> 00:53:50.500 +that clear and some people like it wasn't + +00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:53.360 +there. And I can understand that kind of a + +00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:53.860 +feeling. + +00:53:58.820 --> 00:53:59.040 +[Speaker 4]: Well sometimes the steps forward you end up + +00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:02.760 +going Like you're on a hill and you want to + +00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:06.000 +[Speaker 0]: the way the path to get up to + +00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:06.720 +[Speaker 4]: get to a higher hill, but that higher hill + +00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.280 +goes down and up. It doesn't mean that even + +00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:12.600 +if you know you're going down, + +00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:14.340 +it doesn't mean that it was a mistake. + +00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:20.020 +[Speaker 2]: Okay, fair enough. And also another + +00:54:22.120 --> 00:54:22.360 +interesting thing that I want to envision in + +00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:25.720 +the future, if I have time or someone wants + +00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:28.740 +to help me with, is I want them to have + +00:54:30.240 --> 00:54:30.740 +different language for extension, + +00:54:32.560 --> 00:54:33.060 +different Lisp for extension, + +00:54:36.340 --> 00:54:36.840 +not only common Lisp, but Scheme closure. + +00:54:39.680 --> 00:54:40.080 +And maybe not EmacLisp probably, + +00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:47.000 +[Speaker 4]: that what Guile Emacs is trying to do? + +00:54:47.860 --> 00:54:48.080 +[Speaker 2]: but yeah. And funny enough- Isn't Guile Emacs + +00:54:50.060 --> 00:54:50.560 +tried to add Guile support to, + +00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540 +but Guile is not scheme. + +00:54:53.560 --> 00:54:53.800 +Well, it's kind of scheme, + +00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:54.940 +but it's not all schemes, + +00:54:58.580 --> 00:54:58.780 +which is, you know, and it was just to + +00:55:02.540 --> 00:55:03.040 +replace EmacLisp with Gile. + +00:55:06.940 --> 00:55:07.260 +You have 2 both. It was similar in that way, + +00:55:12.100 --> 00:55:12.340 +but the thing is, Common Lisp does have a lot + +00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:13.220 +of interesting things. + +00:55:16.120 --> 00:55:16.620 +So someone wrote a closure in Common Lisp. + +00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:21.140 +Which is called Cloture. + +00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:29.860 +Someone wrote, well it's on the way but it's + +00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:35.740 +getting there, a standard scheme in Common + +00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:39.940 +Lisp. So to add support to LEM, + +00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:44.940 +will be as easy as import package, + +00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:46.860 +and you have, And if that language, + +00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.060 +which usually does, supports very well + +00:55:51.740 --> 00:55:51.900 +interaction between the host language and the + +00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:53.420 +language that tries to provide, + +00:55:57.040 --> 00:55:57.180 +you will mostly automatically have new + +00:55:58.060 --> 00:55:58.560 +language for the editor. + +00:56:05.640 --> 00:56:06.100 +[Speaker 4]: I think the more interesting hanging fruit + +00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.780 +would be like using Next to scrape websites, + +00:56:12.500 --> 00:56:13.000 +download CSV bank statements, + +00:56:15.940 --> 00:56:16.440 +integrating with like password managers and + +00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:28.180 +or using... yeah you could still do with + +00:56:30.120 --> 00:56:30.620 +[Speaker 2]: But isn't that more like next thing oh yeah + +00:56:31.460 --> 00:56:31.580 +yeah I + +00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:32.520 +[Speaker 4]: common list though mean what's your your + +00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:35.260 +other options would be Selenium, + +00:56:41.200 --> 00:56:41.580 +JavaScript, Next already gives you the REPL + +00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:48.300 +for that. Or when you had that Ambryvar talk, + +00:56:50.060 --> 00:56:50.220 +when he, I don't know if you watched it, + +00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:53.420 +but when you use a shell and a command takes + +00:56:56.060 --> 00:56:56.200 +takes a while It just automatically takes you + +00:56:58.440 --> 00:56:58.580 +back into your shell and says I'll just let + +00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:00.800 +this run in the background or being able to + +00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:03.260 +more easily run commands in parallel. + +00:57:13.620 --> 00:57:13.880 +[Speaker 2]: But that's not like Nix stuff, + +00:57:18.740 --> 00:57:19.140 +[Speaker 4]: The Ambrivar, the shell 1, + +00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:21.900 +[Speaker 2]: right? Not like? When he did it, + +00:57:23.380 --> 00:57:23.580 +he. Because 1 + +00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:25.440 +[Speaker 4]: wasn't. of the things He did in that when he + +00:57:30.040 --> 00:57:30.160 +was using the repl in place of the shell is 1 + +00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:31.740 +of the things in there was if, + +00:57:33.720 --> 00:57:34.120 +let's say you were compiling a program, + +00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:37.040 +that takes a while. If it took longer than + +00:57:40.240 --> 00:57:40.440 +like 3 seconds or something along those + +00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:42.740 +lines, it would kick you back into the shell + +00:57:44.260 --> 00:57:44.660 +and say, oh, we're waiting for this program + +00:57:48.160 --> 00:57:48.380 +[Speaker 2]: Oh, interesting. And + +00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:49.340 +[Speaker 4]: to run, to finish. then you could, + +00:57:51.200 --> 00:57:51.600 +and then it had back reference support. + +00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:55.520 +So you could say, Oh, app search for this + +00:57:58.480 --> 00:57:58.820 +program. And then with the, + +00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:01.220 +with the shell, I, when I want to search, + +00:58:04.460 --> 00:58:04.640 +I'll then grep through that list to narrow it + +00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:07.180 +down even further, but I do a whole new + +00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:08.900 +search. It just says, oh, + +00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:11.100 +just grep through what I already searched. + +00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:14.680 +Just grep through the results of the command + +00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:16.440 +that's 3 commands ago. + +00:58:17.980 --> 00:58:18.180 +[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So it + +00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:24.380 +[Speaker 4]: runs instantly. Or look for my build errors + +00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:26.340 +in my compilation output, + +00:58:29.700 --> 00:58:30.060 +[Speaker 0]: rather than trying to build it again grepping + +00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:30.860 +for the errors. + +00:58:33.640 --> 00:58:34.120 +[Speaker 2]: I was checking, so where's that project? + +00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:36.920 +I was looking for it. You know, + +00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:45.040 +the... Yeah, I want to check the, + +00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.500 +[Speaker 4]: There was a talk. I also had a webpage. + +00:58:55.080 --> 00:58:55.580 +[Speaker 2]: you know... This red bull? + +00:58:58.260 --> 00:58:58.760 +No, this is not what I meant. + +00:59:34.174 --> 00:59:34.674 +[Speaker 0]: What is it? What is it? + +00:59:47.664 --> 00:59:48.164 +I cannot find the... I was trying to find + +00:59:54.180 --> 00:59:54.680 +[Speaker 2]: the repo for... It's C-L-E-S-H, + +00:59:59.640 --> 00:59:59.840 +like a unit shell for interface with for + +01:00:02.080 --> 01:00:02.580 +common Lisp? Is that the thing? + +01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.160 +[Speaker 0]: I don't know. I'm + +01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:12.760 +[Speaker 4]: trying to find the link to his old, + +01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:17.060 +no longer website. Website. + +01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:22.000 +[Speaker 2]: Skip. Technical issues. + +01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:23.900 +Maybe this 1. + +01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.320 +I cannot find it. + +01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:38.300 +[Speaker 4]: I got it. + +01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640 +[Speaker 0]: Go to that link. Okay. + +01:01:02.020 --> 01:01:02.220 +[Speaker 4]: There's also a FOSDM target associated with + +01:01:02.380 --> 01:01:02.880 +it too. + +01:01:07.600 --> 01:01:08.100 +[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, interesting. Clash and CH. + +01:01:13.520 --> 01:01:14.020 +CH. Oh, I was looking at the clesh. + +01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:19.140 +Clish, so the, let's check for it. + +01:01:23.560 --> 01:01:23.860 +The other 1 is shell and camel. + +01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:24.620 +This 1. + +01:01:37.505 --> 01:01:38.005 +[Speaker 0]: Interesting. Oops. Close Oops. + +01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:41.400 +[Speaker 2]: Oh, it's a GNU project. + +01:01:44.660 --> 01:01:45.160 +Oh, interesting. + +01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:51.680 +[Speaker 4]: The other thing that was interesting there is + +01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:53.260 +you use those disk images, + +01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:00.520 +LISP images, to have some of your common LISP + +01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:06.100 +utilities or programming libraries that you + +01:02:07.660 --> 01:02:08.040 +utilize in tandem with your REPL. + +01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:14.200 +So you can easily pull up a more featureful + +01:02:18.160 --> 01:02:18.400 +or a REPL that has more tools in it than by + +01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:18.900 +default. + +01:02:21.740 --> 01:02:22.240 +[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So yeah, that's, + +01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:24.880 +yeah, I mean, that will be, + +01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.100 +it will be fairly, no, + +01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:29.200 +no, easy. Well, easy, but not, + +01:02:33.080 --> 01:02:33.580 +But this can be integrated into LEM probably. + +01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:36.200 +Very, you know, not that easy because you + +01:02:38.520 --> 01:02:39.020 +have to change the few things. + +01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:44.280 +But this can be, you know. + +01:02:47.100 --> 01:02:47.600 +[Speaker 4]: Well, as example, he just... + +01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:49.860 +Well, 1 of the things that was in the talk, + +01:02:51.080 --> 01:02:51.300 +1 of the main ideas was, + +01:02:56.160 --> 01:02:56.380 +let's just, rather than trying to make the + +01:02:57.600 --> 01:02:58.040 +shell closer to a REPL, + +01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:01.280 +let's make a REPL closer to a shell, + +01:03:03.380 --> 01:03:03.760 +make it to where we can easily run Linux + +01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:07.420 +programs in it, and then use the rest of the + +01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:10.620 +REPL goodness, make it to where parentheses + +01:03:12.080 --> 01:03:12.580 +are easy to use, like paraedit, + +01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:21.420 +And then all of a sudden you have a nicer + +01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:24.640 +shell. Not really shell, + +01:03:24.640 --> 01:03:25.140 +but. + +01:03:30.020 --> 01:03:30.520 +[Speaker 2]: Oh, this is huge. + +01:03:33.520 --> 01:03:33.960 +[Speaker 6]: Hi, folks. Sorry for the interruption. + +01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:35.700 +It's Leo from the general track. + +01:03:39.380 --> 01:03:39.600 +We are about to go back live on the + +01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.040 +development track, so you can continue the + +01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:43.480 +discussion. You know, we are recording + +01:03:45.200 --> 01:03:45.360 +everything and you seem to be having a great + +01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:47.840 +amount of fun to issue the need for lunch, + +01:03:49.080 --> 01:03:49.580 +at least for the people in the US. + +01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:51.360 +I just want to let you know, + +01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:53.860 +in 2 minutes' time, we will be moving back to + +01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:55.340 +the rest of the talk for the afternoon, + +01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:57.040 +but feel free to stay in a room and keep + +01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.260 +discussing. All right? + +01:04:01.160 --> 01:04:01.660 +[Speaker 2]: Thank you. All right. + +01:04:03.640 --> 01:04:03.940 +[Speaker 6]: It might be a little brutal in 2 minutes, + +01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:08.240 +so if you have your watch synchronized at 7 + +01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:09.520 +sharps, so in 2 minutes, + +01:04:10.040 --> 01:04:10.540 +it'll cut off. + +01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:20.100 +[Speaker 2]: Okay. Bye-bye. Bye. Oh my. + +01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:24.360 +Yeah. Interesting stuff indeed. + +01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:29.540 +[Speaker 4]: to listen to it after you're done with the + +01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:32.540 +[Speaker 0]: I guess you have Have you + +01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:33.980 +[Speaker 4]: comp. ever listened to that talk before? + +01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:38.800 +The 1 that's in that webpage, + +01:04:39.380 --> 01:04:39.880 +the FOSDEM 1. + +01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:41.340 +[Speaker 2]: Which 1? Sorry? 0 yeah, + +01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:44.980 +I in fact saw him live in the FOSDEM 2020. + +01:04:50.053 --> 01:04:50.091 +[Speaker 0]: So I a little bit. 2020. + +01:04:50.166 --> 01:04:50.204 +So we him + +01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:51.980 +[Speaker 2]: talked with him a little bit The first time + +01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:56.260 +is here in well here in Europe here in + +01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:01.440 +Brussels like 3 hours away or 2 hours away in + +01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:02.820 +plane from where I am. + +01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:05.800 +[Speaker 0]: 1 of the things that's kind of interesting + +01:05:06.900 --> 01:05:07.040 +with, you have some of + +01:05:09.060 --> 01:05:09.160 +[Speaker 4]: the people who come from Europe to the US and + +01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:11.980 +they're like, oh, I want to visit all the + +01:05:13.780 --> 01:05:14.060 +corners of the US in a couple of days. + +01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:18.420 +And it's like, No, US is the size of Europe. + +01:05:19.740 --> 01:05:19.960 +[Speaker 0]: The + +01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:21.660 +[Speaker 4]: states are the size of their countries. + +01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:23.400 +You don't... + +01:05:27.100 --> 01:05:27.600 +[Speaker 2]: I know. I know. It's very... + +01:05:30.660 --> 01:05:31.080 +It's huge. And it's like 6 hours different + +01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:32.780 +from coast to coast, something like that. + +01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:38.240 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, and that's driving as fast as you can + +01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:40.140 +on the freeway, on the best roads that you + +01:05:41.160 --> 01:05:41.660 +possibly can, not taking... + +01:05:45.700 --> 01:05:46.200 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah, that would be... + +01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:53.900 +So the thing that I try to do also with LEM + +01:05:57.880 --> 01:05:58.140 +is to move my workflow from LEM to Emax, + +01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120 +so for Emax to LEM, use it more. + +01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:07.580 +And I hope to, we still have a long way to go + +01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:08.940 +in terms of usability, + +01:06:10.600 --> 01:06:11.100 +in terms of other things, + +01:06:12.640 --> 01:06:13.140 +because we need more power. + +01:06:18.420 --> 01:06:18.620 +So This is also my attempt to do some + +01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:20.820 +publicity to the Blend project itself, + +01:06:23.100 --> 01:06:23.600 +to need to add more users, + +01:06:26.200 --> 01:06:26.700 +to be willing to try and to fail trying, + +01:06:29.640 --> 01:06:30.140 +because we still have some rough edges. + +01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:38.820 +Yeah, just trying to do that, + +01:06:41.720 --> 01:06:42.220 +which is, and I apologize to the Emaclist + +01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:43.740 +community, which I'm part of, + +01:06:44.660 --> 01:06:45.140 +but I don't want to like, + +01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:47.520 +disencourage the use of getting Emacs anyway. + +01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:49.460 +I think both are awesome. + +01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:51.800 +I want to anyone to get a real impression. + +01:06:57.040 --> 01:06:57.100 +[Speaker 0]: What do + +01:06:57.740 --> 01:06:58.240 +[Speaker 2]: you think? PlasmaStrike, + +01:07:01.560 --> 01:07:02.060 +you have a very powerful name. + +01:07:07.580 --> 01:07:07.840 +[Speaker 4]: I don't think that's something to worry + +01:07:09.660 --> 01:07:10.160 +about. I don't personally, + +01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:15.760 +but I'm going to watch the EMMS talk. + +01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:17.560 +That's something that I don't really use too + +01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:21.220 +much on my Emacs config. + +01:07:22.600 --> 01:07:23.100 +So I'm going to let you go. + +01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:24.720 +[Speaker 2]: OK, yeah, I'm going to go. + +01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:26.760 +I'm going to maybe watch the garbage + +01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:28.300 +collector talk, which is interesting. + +01:07:32.540 --> 01:07:33.040 +So thank you all very much. + +01:07:35.860 --> 01:07:36.080 +I'm gonna go. Thanks for the questions and + +01:07:40.811 --> 01:07:41.288 +all that. I think I hope I answered correctly + +01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:47.540 +[Speaker 4]: is part of the value of being part of this is + +01:07:50.580 --> 01:07:50.740 +[Speaker 2]: all of them. Yeah, I figure this that's a way + +01:07:52.540 --> 01:07:53.040 +[Speaker 4]: conversations. So of saying thank you for + +01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:54.980 +people sharing interesting talks. + +01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:57.940 +[Speaker 2]: Indeed. Thank you all very much for going to + +01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:02.880 +the Emacs conf and to watch me. + +01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:06.940 +So thank you all very much. + +01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:09.860 +I'm going to go do that. + +01:08:10.640 --> 01:08:10.890 +[Speaker 0]: See you. |