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+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:53.489 --> 00:00:53.989
+[Speaker 0]: All right. I have unmuted.
+
+00:00:59.860 --> 00:01:00.180
+It's been a while since I've actually done an
+
+00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:05.860
+actual presentation. Hi.
+
+00:01:08.979 --> 00:01:09.380
+Okay. I'm going to deafen myself and mumble
+
+00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:13.040
+so that I don't get distracted by backstage
+
+00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:16.900
+chatter. Hello, everyone! Okay,
+
+00:01:17.980 --> 00:01:18.480
+so where are we? Questions,
+
+00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:21.300
+questions, questions. Okay,
+
+00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:23.600
+how easy would it be for someone else to
+
+00:01:25.960 --> 00:01:26.120
+reuse the Emacs conf strips and config to do
+
+00:01:29.380 --> 00:01:29.640
+a conf of their own? Like everything else,
+
+00:01:32.220 --> 00:01:32.560
+I have no idea if things actually work until
+
+00:01:35.140 --> 00:01:35.600
+somebody does it for, you know,
+
+00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:37.680
+to get everything to run on a computer that
+
+00:01:40.080 --> 00:01:40.200
+isn't my computer and with assumptions that
+
+00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:41.120
+aren't my assumptions.
+
+00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:43.340
+So, I have no idea. But optimistically,
+
+00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:46.480
+I have put most of the EmacsConf things,
+
+00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:49.200
+like EmacsConf, the name of the conference
+
+00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:50.620
+and things like that in variables.
+
+00:01:53.160 --> 00:01:53.320
+So if theoretically someone were to run an
+
+00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:56.320
+org mode conference or something like that,
+
+00:01:58.440 --> 00:01:58.940
+it might be possible to reuse all this code.
+
+00:02:01.960 --> 00:02:02.080
+We'll see. I don't know if it's going to be
+
+00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:03.560
+easy. I don't even know if it's going to be
+
+00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:05.260
+possible, but it might be fun to try.
+
+00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.199
+What tools would I like to exist in Emacs
+
+00:02:11.720 --> 00:02:12.220
+land to help with preparing the conference
+
+00:02:15.880 --> 00:02:16.320
+next time? Well, I've already been thinking
+
+00:02:18.420 --> 00:02:18.600
+about adjustments that I want to make to
+
+00:02:21.220 --> 00:02:21.720
+sub-eds so that the audio synchronization
+
+00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:24.560
+issues that we sometimes have with FFmpeg can
+
+00:02:26.600 --> 00:02:27.040
+be something that I can flag and maybe fix
+
+00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:29.560
+even while I'm watching a video.
+
+00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:33.340
+But also as much as possible,
+
+00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:37.020
+I like to leave the actual FFMPEG audio and
+
+00:02:39.220 --> 00:02:39.440
+visual tinkering with to other people like
+
+00:02:41.320 --> 00:02:41.520
+Leo, whose patience is slightly more than
+
+00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:45.180
+mine, because audio is,
+
+00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:47.260
+I still don't have the patience to sit for
+
+00:02:48.620 --> 00:02:48.900
+it. You can tell I talk really,
+
+00:02:50.540 --> 00:02:50.860
+really quickly. I'm still trying to squeeze
+
+00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:53.160
+everything into however little focus time I
+
+00:02:56.140 --> 00:02:56.280
+actually have. So it would be kind of nice to
+
+00:03:00.820 --> 00:03:01.320
+use that. Emacs is already doing quite a ton
+
+00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:04.900
+and stuffing more multimedia processing and
+
+00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:06.300
+other fun things into it might be
+
+00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:07.260
+interesting. Who knows?
+
+00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:09.440
+Oh, the other thing that I would really love
+
+00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:12.720
+to have that people always ask for is a way
+
+00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:15.860
+from Emacs to interact with the Etherpad.
+
+00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:19.340
+The Etherpad API, it seems very granular.
+
+00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:21.180
+Like, you can set the HTML of a pad,
+
+00:03:22.920 --> 00:03:23.100
+but you can't actually just append stuff to
+
+00:03:24.640 --> 00:03:24.960
+it. And I was trying to get something that
+
+00:03:26.820 --> 00:03:26.980
+could take questions from IRC and
+
+00:03:28.480 --> 00:03:28.980
+automatically push them into the pad,
+
+00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:31.400
+even from an ERC bot or whatever,
+
+00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:34.900
+but no go. If someone were to figure out some
+
+00:03:38.860 --> 00:03:39.160
+CRDT thing where we can collaboratively edit
+
+00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:41.500
+the document, that I think is the number 1
+
+00:03:42.720 --> 00:03:43.140
+request that people always have around
+
+00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:46.760
+EmacsConf. That would be really cool to do
+
+00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:49.320
+more of the conference itself from within
+
+00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:53.740
+Emacs. I don't know if actually,
+
+00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:55.860
+well, we have an org file now that launches
+
+00:03:59.440 --> 00:03:59.940
+the MPV from Emacs. But if you want to have
+
+00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:02.300
+an ex-widget or something else watching the
+
+00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:04.240
+conference from within Emacs itself.
+
+00:04:05.640 --> 00:04:06.140
+I think that will also be really cool.
+
+00:04:09.480 --> 00:04:09.980
+Yes. And then other fun stuff.
+
+00:04:12.980 --> 00:04:13.220
+OK, how can speakers and viewers help make
+
+00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:15.540
+preparing for next year's Emacs Conf even
+
+00:04:16.300 --> 00:04:16.800
+more fun for the organizers?
+
+00:04:20.440 --> 00:04:20.899
+Well, I love it when not only do the speakers
+
+00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:24.780
+do all that work to prepare their talk,
+
+00:04:27.620 --> 00:04:28.040
+but lately people have actually even been
+
+00:04:29.780 --> 00:04:30.280
+volunteering to caption their own talks.
+
+00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:33.740
+And that's great because then they know the
+
+00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:36.500
+words that they use. And if I can show them
+
+00:04:39.140 --> 00:04:39.280
+the workflow that we have so that they can do
+
+00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:42.420
+it very efficiently, because there's all
+
+00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:44.860
+these wonderful things that I do now with
+
+00:04:48.340 --> 00:04:48.580
+Subweb Waveform and Aeneas for like the
+
+00:04:49.900 --> 00:04:50.400
+forced alignment so we can get timestamps
+
+00:04:53.100 --> 00:04:53.360
+from text and all these other fun things that
+
+00:04:55.520 --> 00:04:55.680
+make getting a transcript or editing the
+
+00:04:57.380 --> 00:04:57.880
+captions fun and easy.
+
+00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:01.000
+That makes it easier for not only speakers to
+
+00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:03.280
+contribute captions for their own talks,
+
+00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:05.720
+but also interested volunteers who,
+
+00:05:07.760 --> 00:05:07.920
+as mentioned, get early access to all the
+
+00:05:09.140 --> 00:05:09.640
+talks and can watch them at leisure.
+
+00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:12.800
+And it's, you know, nice prick there.
+
+00:05:13.700 --> 00:05:14.200
+Definitely should try that.
+
+00:05:19.400 --> 00:05:19.600
+I do have some sample videos of how we use
+
+00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:22.000
+subed. But of course, in the process of
+
+00:05:24.280 --> 00:05:24.780
+shoving like 30 or 40 talks,
+
+00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:27.100
+maybe 30 talks through it for EmacsConf,
+
+00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:29.640
+this is like the stress test season for
+
+00:05:30.340 --> 00:05:30.760
+subed, which is great,
+
+00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:32.380
+I ended up adding more features.
+
+00:05:36.260 --> 00:05:36.500
+So 1 of my big to-dos afterwards is I have to
+
+00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:38.600
+document the different workflows for things
+
+00:05:40.260 --> 00:05:40.760
+like, okay, you've got a script.
+
+00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:43.700
+You can use WDiff to get word diffs so you
+
+00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:45.760
+can take the subtitles and compare them with
+
+00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:47.720
+the original script and see where the
+
+00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:49.380
+misrecognized words are.
+
+00:05:52.960 --> 00:05:53.360
+And that's great. Or you can use SubWeb
+
+00:05:54.960 --> 00:05:55.440
+Waveform to start adjusting things.
+
+00:05:56.820 --> 00:05:57.320
+Or for example, if there's a synchronization
+
+00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:01.820
+issue, I can now middle click on a subtitle
+
+00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:04.000
+where I want the subtitle to actually start
+
+00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:06.680
+and then move all the subtitles to start at
+
+00:06:09.020 --> 00:06:09.280
+that point. So it's getting to be a really
+
+00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:11.000
+elaborate tool. And I definitely need to
+
+00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:15.520
+document that and stick all the blog post
+
+00:06:17.860 --> 00:06:18.040
+links into the readme so that people can find
+
+00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:20.740
+this in the future. So it's very,
+
+00:06:23.080 --> 00:06:23.320
+very nifty. And the reason why we do this is
+
+00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:25.220
+because, well, personally,
+
+00:06:26.820 --> 00:06:27.160
+I have a hard time sitting and watching
+
+00:06:28.940 --> 00:06:29.080
+videos. I like to be able to just jump to the
+
+00:06:31.540 --> 00:06:31.780
+interesting parts or watch it at 3 times
+
+00:06:33.400 --> 00:06:33.900
+speed, which MPV lets me do.
+
+00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:36.660
+And the text makes it a lot more searchable,
+
+00:06:38.960 --> 00:06:39.460
+which is fantastic. And also because,
+
+00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:41.480
+you know, if you've got all these interesting
+
+00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:44.720
+variable names and key bindings and whatever,
+
+00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:47.520
+and the automatic subtitles just don't do the
+
+00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:49.740
+right thing. So it's nice that people do the
+
+00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:53.480
+captioning. So, yeah, so that's 1 thing that
+
+00:06:55.080 --> 00:06:55.380
+people can help with. Captioning is always
+
+00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:57.280
+very interesting. And the other thing that
+
+00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:00.780
+people can do is take the inspiration that
+
+00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:03.340
+you get from EmacsConf and from the ideas
+
+00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:05.140
+that you have when you're working with Emacs,
+
+00:07:07.280 --> 00:07:07.780
+and suggest talks for next year's EmacsConf.
+
+00:07:09.760 --> 00:07:10.260
+And it doesn't have to be a super fancy,
+
+00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:14.060
+nobody else needs to go out and do a really
+
+00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:15.420
+professional-looking video.
+
+00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:17.640
+Even though Howard has set the bar this you
+
+00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:19.840
+know it's pretty high you don't have to do
+
+00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:22.660
+that kind of thing it can be just you in a
+
+00:07:24.860 --> 00:07:25.240
+screen or even just a screen and you talking
+
+00:07:27.340 --> 00:07:27.400
+about this cool thing that you learned and
+
+00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:29.340
+they could be a video or it could be a blog
+
+00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:31.940
+post it could be something else and that
+
+00:07:34.780 --> 00:07:35.020
+those those things are fantastic because they
+
+00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:37.200
+inspire people to see what's possible with
+
+00:07:39.440 --> 00:07:39.620
+Emacs. So that's another big thing that
+
+00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:41.300
+people can do to help.
+
+00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:44.480
+And then there's sharing the word about it.
+
+00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:46.840
+So if you saw something that you really like,
+
+00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:49.080
+if you write a blog post about it or a tweet
+
+00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:51.480
+or a toot or whatever else you want to do,
+
+00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:52.980
+you make a reaction video,
+
+00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:55.780
+that helps other people discover that stuff
+
+00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:58.080
+not just today, not just next week,
+
+00:08:00.340 --> 00:08:00.540
+but you know even later as they search for
+
+00:08:04.640 --> 00:08:05.140
+these words that as people search for ideas
+
+00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:07.760
+using words that are not necessarily the ones
+
+00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:10.560
+in the video, you describing things in other
+
+00:08:11.980 --> 00:08:12.400
+ways helps with the search engine
+
+00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:13.740
+optimization, you're not really,
+
+00:08:15.200 --> 00:08:15.700
+it's just people finding stuff,
+
+00:08:17.220 --> 00:08:17.500
+which is amazing. So yes,
+
+00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:19.500
+please write about the cool things that
+
+00:08:22.840 --> 00:08:23.040
+you've seen and what you'd like to tell other
+
+00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:26.280
+people about. Suggesting ideas for talks.
+
+00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:30.340
+Yes. Making talks. All sorts of wonderful
+
+00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:35.380
+things. OK. Could you elaborate on the
+
+00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:37.320
+workflow that goes on in your mind for when
+
+00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:38.320
+approaching these things?
+
+00:08:40.260 --> 00:08:40.460
+Do you start with an Emacs org solution right
+
+00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:42.340
+off the bat at this point when faced with a
+
+00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:44.340
+task? Are there some conscious steps involved
+
+00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:46.460
+from early ideas to automation of the kind
+
+00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:49.080
+you just showed? Mostly it starts with,
+
+00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:51.040
+okay, we got to do this thing.
+
+00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:54.220
+So I have this to-do. And sometimes,
+
+00:08:55.860 --> 00:08:56.200
+like in the week before the conference,
+
+00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:57.720
+I have to think, okay,
+
+00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:01.000
+is this a top priority thing that I can do
+
+00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:01.960
+before the conference,
+
+00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:03.980
+or is it something that I can,
+
+00:09:05.800 --> 00:09:06.160
+I, I, like we can still do the conference
+
+00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:08.360
+without doing so I have to just postpone it
+
+00:09:09.860 --> 00:09:10.360
+until afterwards? So some prioritization
+
+00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:12.280
+happens. But a lot of times it's like,
+
+00:09:13.140 --> 00:09:13.320
+okay, you know, like this,
+
+00:09:14.620 --> 00:09:14.820
+there's a thing that I need to do here.
+
+00:09:15.920 --> 00:09:16.360
+I don't know how to figure it out,
+
+00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:19.080
+let me start an org Babble block and start
+
+00:09:19.760 --> 00:09:20.240
+sketching out something,
+
+00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.620
+you know, custom function or whatever else,
+
+00:09:23.980 --> 00:09:24.200
+and then say okay, you know,
+
+00:09:25.380 --> 00:09:25.760
+hey, that looks kind of useful,
+
+00:09:27.180 --> 00:09:27.600
+let me see if I can generalize that,
+
+00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:29.640
+and then let me stick it into the library so
+
+00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:31.320
+that I can find it next year.
+
+00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:33.520
+And that's basically how it goes.
+
+00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:36.000
+It just goes, it just like,
+
+00:09:37.540 --> 00:09:38.040
+I have a thing that I need to do.
+
+00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:40.280
+If it's, if I'm going to do it more than
+
+00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:42.720
+once, or actually even if I'm going to do it,
+
+00:09:44.640 --> 00:09:44.800
+you know, once I tried to automate it just so
+
+00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.500
+that I can understand it and,
+
+00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:48.100
+and then I can, I can,
+
+00:09:50.280 --> 00:09:50.440
+I can squeeze it into like the 15 minutes I
+
+00:09:54.140 --> 00:09:54.280
+actually have and I can pause and I can pick
+
+00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:56.380
+it up again and the code is still there and
+
+00:09:57.160 --> 00:09:57.660
+my notes are still there?
+
+00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:00.760
+And then every little bit of the,
+
+00:10:03.540 --> 00:10:04.040
+every little step like that builds up.
+
+00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:06.100
+So I can write a short function today,
+
+00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:07.820
+and then tomorrow when the kid was asleep,
+
+00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:09.740
+I can write a little bit more of that.
+
+00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:11.660
+And so it just goes on from there.
+
+00:10:14.260 --> 00:10:14.760
+And then I just stuff that all in there.
+
+00:10:17.660 --> 00:10:17.900
+How well does this approach allow for other
+
+00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:20.140
+organisers to do individual customisations to
+
+00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:21.640
+their liking while still being able to
+
+00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:22.620
+collaborate effectively?
+
+00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:26.460
+We've actually split things up fairly neatly
+
+00:10:28.020 --> 00:10:28.260
+in the sense that for this year,
+
+00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:30.940
+for example, most everyone else was super
+
+00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:34.900
+busy, so I did all the heavy lifting up until
+
+00:10:37.420 --> 00:10:37.540
+people were available and then they jumped in
+
+00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:38.740
+with the audio normalization.
+
+00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:39.840
+Thank you very much, Leo,
+
+00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:41.780
+for doing all of that stuff and the hosting
+
+00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:43.340
+and all the other things.
+
+00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:46.040
+So I tend to do most of the Emacs list
+
+00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:48.360
+fiddling with and the shell scripting and
+
+00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:50.460
+stuff like that, aside from the FFmpeg
+
+00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:53.520
+incantations, which are too arcane for me to
+
+00:10:56.860 --> 00:10:57.040
+even think about. And then in the course of
+
+00:10:57.980 --> 00:10:58.180
+watching me deal with like,
+
+00:10:59.440 --> 00:10:59.640
+oh, no, this video is not playing.
+
+00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:01.280
+And then they see the commands that I'm
+
+00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:04.640
+using, like play and then,
+
+00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:06.240
+you know, play a world,
+
+00:11:08.760 --> 00:11:08.920
+which is the ideas of the talk that we were
+
+00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:10.940
+having a hard time with or MPD or whatever.
+
+00:11:13.520 --> 00:11:13.740
+Then the other organizers kind of just pick
+
+00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:15.480
+that up by osmosis, because We didn't even
+
+00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:17.360
+have time to do dry runs for training this
+
+00:11:20.540 --> 00:11:20.740
+year. So it's just there's not much
+
+00:11:22.500 --> 00:11:22.660
+collaboration in the sense that I'm just
+
+00:11:24.400 --> 00:11:24.740
+basically saying, OK, these are the scripts
+
+00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:26.260
+that I'm going to write for myself.
+
+00:11:28.980 --> 00:11:29.480
+And you all figure out how to work with that.
+
+00:11:34.780 --> 00:11:35.280
+What was the hardest problem you encountered
+
+00:11:37.040 --> 00:11:37.180
+in organizing or running the conference this
+
+00:11:38.540 --> 00:11:39.040
+year and how do you deal with it?
+
+00:11:40.680 --> 00:11:40.840
+Oh, the constant, constant problem with
+
+00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:43.820
+e-mails. There's so many amazing ideas.
+
+00:11:45.660 --> 00:11:46.160
+I want to fit into the time.
+
+00:11:46.920 --> 00:11:47.420
+And then afterwards, like,
+
+00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:49.960
+Sasha, do not mess with production the day
+
+00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:50.860
+before the conference.
+
+00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:52.680
+You're going to save that for after the
+
+00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:54.920
+conference, right? So that's the hardest
+
+00:11:56.140 --> 00:11:56.420
+part, is just saying, OK,
+
+00:11:58.620 --> 00:11:58.780
+yes, that's an idea. I'm going to put that in
+
+00:12:01.400 --> 00:12:01.680
+the inbox. We're going to maybe get to that
+
+00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:03.620
+next year. But right now,
+
+00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:05.560
+these are the things that I need to do in
+
+00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:07.700
+order to get the conference off the ground
+
+00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:15.320
+reasonably in a reasonable amount of time.
+
+00:12:17.140 --> 00:12:17.640
+So earlier in the conference,
+
+00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:19.740
+then I can be like, OK,
+
+00:12:21.900 --> 00:12:22.360
+what if we do this? What if we run everything
+
+00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:24.640
+off a crontab instead of using Emacs tramp
+
+00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:26.180
+timers? Wouldn't that be great?
+
+00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:28.840
+And then I can explore all those crazy ideas.
+
+00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:30.720
+But then as we get closer and closer to date,
+
+00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:32.720
+I'm like, okay, fine. I'm going to like just
+
+00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:34.700
+capture the idea and deal with it later.
+
+00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:36.580
+So that's really, really hard for me.
+
+00:12:39.520 --> 00:12:39.800
+Year to your growth in attendance and after
+
+00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:41.260
+the conference video watching.
+
+00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:46.740
+The growth, well, first thing,
+
+00:12:51.110 --> 00:12:51.610
+there is like absolute growth in the kind of
+
+00:12:53.520 --> 00:12:53.720
+the quantity of things that people are
+
+00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:57.180
+sharing. I have a blog post about this that
+
+00:12:59.440 --> 00:12:59.820
+talks about a number of minutes of talks,
+
+00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:02.360
+and it's going up. Last year,
+
+00:13:03.740 --> 00:13:03.960
+we did 2 tracks because I couldn't fit
+
+00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:05.720
+everything in 1 day. And this year,
+
+00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:07.240
+we did 2 tracks, but even then,
+
+00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.360
+everything was kind of squished,
+
+00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:10.040
+and I was trying to find space in the
+
+00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:12.160
+schedule. And if you make it so that next
+
+00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:14.000
+year, we have to figure out 3 tracks,
+
+00:13:15.760 --> 00:13:16.000
+I think We have another host now,
+
+00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:17.340
+so it might be doable,
+
+00:13:19.540 --> 00:13:19.820
+which is great. Who knows?
+
+00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:23.860
+We'll see. And the other interesting thing
+
+00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:25.520
+that I'm seeing in terms of growth is that
+
+00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.720
+people are starting to refer to the talks
+
+00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:30.300
+from previous conferences that inspired them.
+
+00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:33.220
+So the evil plan is working in that it is
+
+00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:35.160
+getting people to get cool stuff out of their
+
+00:13:37.020 --> 00:13:37.200
+heads and into videos that have like
+
+00:13:39.560 --> 00:13:39.720
+searchable transcripts and that people can
+
+00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:42.280
+refer to as for inspiration and for showing
+
+00:13:42.980 --> 00:13:43.200
+other people, hey, look,
+
+00:13:44.060 --> 00:13:44.560
+this is what it can do.
+
+00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:46.860
+So that is fantastic growth.
+
+00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:49.540
+The actual numbers, I'm intense to look at
+
+00:13:51.160 --> 00:13:51.660
+the number of simultaneous viewers.
+
+00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:53.980
+And every so often, it's kind of nice to go
+
+00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:56.360
+through the YouTube stats or whatever.
+
+00:13:57.560 --> 00:13:57.980
+But that's not so much as a,
+
+00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:01.320
+like, I don't really keep that in mind as
+
+00:14:05.060 --> 00:14:05.560
+much, just because as long as people are
+
+00:14:07.660 --> 00:14:07.880
+connecting to the ideas and getting stuff out
+
+00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:13.440
+there and being inspired to think around
+
+00:14:16.220 --> 00:14:16.720
+more, then it's doing the thing.
+
+00:14:21.300 --> 00:14:21.460
+Cognizant is working. So where are we now for
+
+00:14:22.640 --> 00:14:23.140
+questions? Ooh, I can actually,
+
+00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:25.820
+I have ERC here. I can find eventually.
+
+00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:28.700
+1 of my screens has Dev in it.
+
+00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:31.260
+Okay, here we are. What are the other
+
+00:14:34.900 --> 00:14:35.400
+questions? Probably, Probably an IRC.
+
+00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:39.520
+Where's IRC? Dove, dove,
+
+00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:46.200
+dove. I did try to record things more slowly,
+
+00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:47.520
+and I tried several times,
+
+00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.020
+but I really just speak very quickly when I
+
+00:14:53.300 --> 00:14:53.480
+get excited and Emacs is very fun so it is
+
+00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:00.460
+tough oh yes okay so 1 in once yes automated
+
+00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:04.540
+present workflows oh yeah okay so where are
+
+00:15:05.660 --> 00:15:05.840
+we now for time? Oh look,
+
+00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:07.900
+it's 4.30, should we do our closing remarks
+
+00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:09.440
+or like how are things going over in the
+
+00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.340
+other stream? I should find out.
+
+00:15:14.760 --> 00:15:14.860
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I've been keeping a close eye on the
+
+00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:16.900
+other 1, but yeah, I believe that-
+
+00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:20.300
+[Speaker 0]: Yay, look at that, good timing.
+
+00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:23.300
+Okay, I have managed to zoom through the
+
+00:15:26.660 --> 00:15:26.980
+questions and we can switch over to the
+
+00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:31.740
+closing remarks how do we do this yes okay
+
+00:15:35.060 --> 00:15:35.400
+okay we're gonna oh wait people okay people
+
+00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:37.760
+who wanted to ask questions how do you want
+
+00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:39.360
+to do this? Because there are a lot of people
+
+00:15:42.040 --> 00:15:42.240
+in this 1 here too. You want to go to the
+
+00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:49.320
+other 1? 0 no, they aren't done yet.
+
+00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:51.600
+Sorry, I forgot to turn on the con tab
+
+00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:53.000
+because of course I got excited.
+
+00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:55.200
+Okay, so Jacob is still answering questions,
+
+00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:57.440
+which means I get to still answer questions.
+
+00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:00.060
+Now I'll try to be quiet and let people in
+
+00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:02.220
+the BBB room speak up if we want to.
+
+00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:12.540
+Okay that means
+
+00:16:13.585 --> 00:16:13.650
+[Speaker 3]: are going to hear.
+
+00:16:13.715 --> 00:16:13.780
+[Speaker 1]: Some more
+
+00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:16.100
+[Speaker 2]: people in the chat ideas I had on the Emacs
+
+00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:18.000
+conferences you could have like a little
+
+00:16:21.300 --> 00:16:21.660
+Emacs starter config just for like the Emacs
+
+00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:27.040
+conference where you have emms playlist and
+
+00:16:29.540 --> 00:16:29.780
+IRC help cheer function to help get you into
+
+00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:35.320
+IRC into ERC and then the to-do states that I
+
+00:16:36.060 --> 00:16:36.560
+was talking about before.
+
+00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:40.380
+So you can say, I'm watching this 1,
+
+00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:41.480
+I want to re-watch this 1,
+
+00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:43.080
+but I'm going to skip it because I'm watching
+
+00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:53.220
+something else. I used the HyperBowl package
+
+00:16:55.680 --> 00:16:55.860
+to go straight to the web pages to all the
+
+00:16:59.600 --> 00:16:59.860
+either pads but you can also have some quick
+
+00:17:04.540 --> 00:17:04.960
+functions to go into a CRDT buffer hosted
+
+00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:07.900
+buffer, where all the org mode Etherpad
+
+00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:14.440
+documents would be. And then that would get
+
+00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:15.780
+everybody using Emacs,
+
+00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:17.839
+and then they could all be chatting with each
+
+00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:23.980
+other with CRDT, with controlling Emacs.
+
+00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:25.680
+I don't know how the sub stuff,
+
+00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:27.339
+I don't know if you can get the sub stuff in
+
+00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:30.060
+there working, but yeah,
+
+00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:33.160
+It could be a good way of getting it all
+
+00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:35.420
+wrapped up together. And also,
+
+00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:38.400
+Mkron, if you ever looked at that versus
+
+00:17:40.800 --> 00:17:41.300
+Kron, Mkron is configured in Elisp.
+
+00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:43.740
+Then you can also write some custom functions
+
+00:17:44.620 --> 00:17:45.120
+in the middle of your Kron.
+
+00:17:46.800 --> 00:17:47.280
+So maybe you could make some like conditional
+
+00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:49.460
+things where you can start or stop it.
+
+00:17:56.320 --> 00:17:56.440
+And like 1 of the differences is if your
+
+00:17:58.860 --> 00:17:59.100
+computer reboots, it can start up and say,
+
+00:18:01.780 --> 00:18:02.160
+oh, I'm supposed to run this cron job at this
+
+00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.200
+time and then just Do the correct thing
+
+00:18:08.100 --> 00:18:08.600
+rather than losing the state Randomly because
+
+00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:10.940
+your computer lost power
+
+00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:15.900
+[Speaker 0]: Thanks for those recommendations I will add
+
+00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.140
+mcron to my list of things to check out.
+
+00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.020
+And yeah, we finally remembered to publish
+
+00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:25.400
+all those schedules as org,
+
+00:18:27.540 --> 00:18:27.840
+and I decided to just spam all the time zones
+
+00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:29.020
+with them, which was fantastic.
+
+00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:30.620
+And other people have mentioned that this is
+
+00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:32.960
+useful. We get to figure out how to use this
+
+00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:35.900
+to teach people more about what you can do
+
+00:18:36.620 --> 00:18:37.120
+with org. As you mentioned,
+
+00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:41.280
+encouraging them to tag the stuff with things
+
+00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:43.860
+that they want to attend gives us the ability
+
+00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:46.240
+to set up an agenda view for them that has
+
+00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:48.340
+the talks that are tagged with those tags.
+
+00:18:48.580 --> 00:18:48.600
+[Speaker 3]: So I
+
+00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:49.780
+[Speaker 0]: was like, okay, let's,
+
+00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:54.340
+let's teach org mode and lisp in the process
+
+00:18:58.120 --> 00:18:58.380
+of doing things. Okay,
+
+00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:01.000
+there was a question about any chance of an
+
+00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.220
+in person EmacsConf again someday.
+
+00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:06.000
+And I was actually at the very first EMAX
+
+00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:11.400
+Conf, which was 2013 and organized in London
+
+00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:13.080
+to take advantage of the fact that I had a
+
+00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.160
+business shift there. It was fantastic being
+
+00:19:18.760 --> 00:19:19.120
+in a room with 100 other people who are all
+
+00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:20.460
+really interested in Emacs,
+
+00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:23.560
+but I'm not traveling like any time for the
+
+00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:25.680
+foreseeable future, so if other people are
+
+00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:27.800
+interested in organizing something like that,
+
+00:19:29.260 --> 00:19:29.760
+I am totally happy to spread the word.
+
+00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:31.860
+It doesn't fit with my current lifestyle,
+
+00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360
+but it might fit somebody's.
+
+00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:37.580
+I don't know. We're still just here.
+
+00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:39.300
+And I like the virtual conference.
+
+00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:42.120
+I really like the fact that we can bring
+
+00:19:43.780 --> 00:19:44.280
+together people from all over the world.
+
+00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:46.840
+I can take a look at my schedule with all the
+
+00:19:47.540 --> 00:19:47.720
+time constraints. Okay,
+
+00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:49.300
+I need to put this person in the morning
+
+00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:50.800
+because they're in Australia and I need to
+
+00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:52.360
+put this person in the afternoon because
+
+00:19:56.120 --> 00:19:56.360
+they're from Vancouver or from somewhere else
+
+00:19:58.020 --> 00:19:58.520
+in the Pacific time zone.
+
+00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:01.920
+And it's just this breadth of people.
+
+00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:04.300
+But the other thing that I would love for
+
+00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:06.420
+people to start thinking about is if we could
+
+00:20:08.300 --> 00:20:08.560
+have a virtual conference in other time
+
+00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:11.580
+zones, so that's easier for people in Asia
+
+00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:13.220
+Pacific or Europe to attend.
+
+00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:16.580
+And as we're getting the hang of this,
+
+00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:18.080
+this crontab-based thing,
+
+00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:20.320
+I think we might almost be at the point where
+
+00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:22.540
+I can set it up to run even when I'm
+
+00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:25.080
+sleeping. And then other people can figure
+
+00:20:26.120 --> 00:20:26.520
+out, you know, the exception handling,
+
+00:20:27.780 --> 00:20:27.900
+oh, you know, this talk needs to be
+
+00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:30.780
+restarted. Okay, just play it again and scrub
+
+00:20:31.800 --> 00:20:32.300
+around to find the right part,
+
+00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:35.000
+which means we could have replays,
+
+00:20:37.060 --> 00:20:37.560
+or we can have like the Asia Pacific
+
+00:20:39.140 --> 00:20:39.440
+Alternate Event that we had the other time
+
+00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:45.780
+where some speakers came back online and did
+
+00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:49.040
+another Q&A session just for that kind of
+
+00:20:51.360 --> 00:20:51.660
+event. So those are other cool,
+
+00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:53.460
+fun things that would love to be,
+
+00:20:57.700 --> 00:20:58.140
+would be great. Satellite events,
+
+00:20:59.480 --> 00:20:59.980
+someone mentioned in the etherpad.
+
+00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:03.520
+Some people have been organizing these,
+
+00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:05.280
+which are great. Basically a bunch of people
+
+00:21:07.800 --> 00:21:08.080
+get together in a room or 2 rooms now because
+
+00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:10.820
+of the tracks and watch Emacs Conf together.
+
+00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:13.140
+So if you have a physical meetup or if you'd
+
+00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:15.760
+like to start 1, It's basically,
+
+00:21:17.860 --> 00:21:17.960
+you know, do this, maybe have stickers if you
+
+00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:20.200
+have stickers. You know,
+
+00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:22.800
+it's just have everyone come over and hang
+
+00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:24.680
+out and meet people. I don't know.
+
+00:21:27.540 --> 00:21:27.660
+It's a thing. Specifically how to do it,
+
+00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:29.700
+I have no idea how to organize these things.
+
+00:21:32.080 --> 00:21:32.580
+But Alain does. So talk to him.
+
+00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:35.580
+[Speaker 2]: Another way of adding multiple tracks is
+
+00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:38.140
+changing it to doing it like 2 times a year,
+
+00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:40.260
+in max confidence.
+
+00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:44.640
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, yeah, people have mentioned something
+
+00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:50.320
+like that. Or the fact that org often has
+
+00:21:51.860 --> 00:21:52.280
+like a full day of talks by itself,
+
+00:21:53.800 --> 00:21:53.980
+and actually a little bit more than a day
+
+00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:55.640
+now, because I've been squeezing things into
+
+00:21:58.260 --> 00:21:58.760
+other tracks. There has been some potential
+
+00:22:00.060 --> 00:22:00.560
+interest in having an org conf.
+
+00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:03.480
+It could be a thing. And I'd love to see
+
+00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:06.240
+also, we'd love to experiment with other
+
+00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:09.240
+formats. So there could be a bug hunting
+
+00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:13.900
+session or let's use the breakout rooms to
+
+00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.120
+split up into little mentoring groups and see
+
+00:22:18.040 --> 00:22:18.240
+how that works. So lots of things that we can
+
+00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:21.760
+do. They've actually finished over in the Gen
+
+00:22:24.360 --> 00:22:24.620
+track so I don't know if people want to very
+
+00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:26.920
+quickly ask questions here or if we go there.
+
+00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:31.260
+Leo has come over here instead so okay he's
+
+00:22:32.560 --> 00:22:33.060
+joining over here on the other side.
+
+00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:36.180
+Okay, hello.
+
+00:22:38.060 --> 00:22:38.560
+[Speaker 3]: I
+
+00:22:43.260 --> 00:22:43.440
+[Speaker 1]: have 1 thing to add. Yeah,
+
+00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:46.720
+[Speaker 4]: No, no, no, I was just about to say I am not
+
+00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:48.680
+hosting anymore. You 2 do a wonderful job,
+
+00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:50.140
+and I'm happy to just watch.
+
+00:22:53.860 --> 00:22:54.000
+[Speaker 1]: go ahead. Cool. Yeah, I was going to add 1
+
+00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:56.660
+quick note about any potential suggestions or
+
+00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:58.240
+recommendations for hosting Emacs on
+
+00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:00.240
+satellites. Is that, I mean,
+
+00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:02.300
+given that we are an event centered around
+
+00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:07.440
+Emacs, and Emacs is backed by the Free
+
+00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:09.320
+Software Foundation, if you do reach out to
+
+00:23:11.180 --> 00:23:11.680
+them, they're usually pretty helpful in terms
+
+00:23:14.340 --> 00:23:14.840
+of sending goodies and stickers and such.
+
+00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.040
+So yeah, if you give them a heads up and
+
+00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:18.400
+reach out to them in advance,
+
+00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.880
+you might well end up with a whole bunch of
+
+00:23:22.800 --> 00:23:23.000
+swag on your hands that you could give out
+
+00:23:24.860 --> 00:23:25.360
+during the satellite. So that's the thing.
+
+00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:36.000
+[Speaker 5]: Well, I just wanted to note it felt kind of
+
+00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:37.840
+even smoother. I mean,
+
+00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:40.160
+you guys always run a nice conference,
+
+00:23:43.180 --> 00:23:43.460
+but it felt smoother this year than ever
+
+00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:45.980
+before, which listening to your talk,
+
+00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:48.900
+Sasha, All the automation that you're doing
+
+00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:52.740
+is pretty incredible. So I think it's paying
+
+00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:53.240
+off.
+
+00:23:58.180 --> 00:23:58.320
+[Speaker 0]: Yay! You know, it is very amusing to hear the
+
+00:23:59.240 --> 00:23:59.440
+host say, okay, you know,
+
+00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:01.000
+but we've got to wrap up in the next 30
+
+00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:03.040
+seconds because Sasha's contact is going to
+
+00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:03.740
+go yoink!
+
+00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:12.980
+[Speaker 5]: I have a person I work with who keeps the
+
+00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:15.860
+trains running on time shall we say and like
+
+00:24:18.940 --> 00:24:19.140
+cuts off every meeting like the second that
+
+00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:21.320
+it's supposed to end while somebody's in
+
+00:24:24.860 --> 00:24:25.080
+mid-sentence and I hope we don't get to that
+
+00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:25.880
+point here.
+
+00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:34.740
+[Speaker 0]: So do we have any more,
+
+00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:36.360
+[Speaker 4]: oh sorry I'm reverting to the hosting,
+
+00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:37.900
+Do we have any more questions for MaxConf?
+
+00:24:39.760 --> 00:24:39.960
+Although maybe we want to switch to the other
+
+00:24:41.580 --> 00:24:41.760
+room so that we don't struggle too much to
+
+00:24:44.340 --> 00:24:44.840
+find... Organize the stuff on BBB afterwards.
+
+00:24:46.360 --> 00:24:46.620
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, the recording. Well,
+
+00:24:48.340 --> 00:24:48.640
+this is a way to make sure the recording gets
+
+00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:54.640
+online. But we could do that too.
+
+00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:56.260
+I don't know. What do y'all think?
+
+00:25:00.580 --> 00:25:00.900
+[Speaker 4]: I'm personally fine. If we want to stay here
+
+00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.220
+right now, the development track is currently
+
+00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:05.780
+streaming this BBB room.
+
+00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:08.940
+So are we on Jen. So we're going to leave it
+
+00:25:10.760 --> 00:25:10.840
+at is and move into closing remarks if we
+
+00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:11.340
+want.
+
+00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.060
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, just, I guess,
+
+00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:17.920
+make sure that every 1 of the organizers are
+
+00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:21.060
+here. I see Flo here. Let's see,
+
+00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:23.860
+Corbyn, are you here? Can you maybe speak
+
+00:25:24.280 --> 00:25:24.780
+here on BBB?
+
+00:25:32.860 --> 00:25:33.000
+[Speaker 4]: We'll give some time for Corbyn to figure it
+
+00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:34.280
+out. He did figure it out eventually
+
+00:25:36.260 --> 00:25:36.420
+yesterday, so surely today will go
+
+00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:36.920
+swimmingly.
+
+00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:47.720
+Right. We're getting everything ready,
+
+00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:48.220
+folks.
+
+00:25:57.100 --> 00:25:57.600
+[Speaker 0]: Okay. So while we sort out Corwin,
+
+00:25:58.980 --> 00:25:59.280
+can someone tell him on mumble,
+
+00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:00.980
+I guess? Because I'm not sure if he's...
+
+00:26:05.060 --> 00:26:05.420
+Anyway. I also want to say that in the Emacs
+
+00:26:06.580 --> 00:26:06.740
+conference channel, people have been
+
+00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.060
+mentioning that the remote stuff has been
+
+00:26:10.840 --> 00:26:10.920
+working for them. And I really do like the
+
+00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:12.880
+way that this means we can have all the
+
+00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:14.480
+videos, you know, all prepared,
+
+00:26:16.020 --> 00:26:16.220
+they're captioned, you know,
+
+00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:17.580
+We can send them to people,
+
+00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:19.500
+we can post them on the website afterwards.
+
+00:26:21.540 --> 00:26:22.020
+We can bring all these people together who
+
+00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:23.880
+might not be able to convince their companies
+
+00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:25.680
+to fly them somewhere for an Emacs
+
+00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:29.760
+conference. And also I can do this kind of
+
+00:26:32.120 --> 00:26:32.620
+prep while having my now seven-year-old still
+
+00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:34.980
+be able to wander by and whatever.
+
+00:26:36.820 --> 00:26:37.320
+Travelling is really tough.
+
+00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:39.600
+So, this is fine. This is cool.
+
+00:26:40.760 --> 00:26:41.260
+I like this. We'll keep doing it.
+
+00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:44.740
+[Speaker 4]: It's definitely playing into the low-cost
+
+00:26:46.360 --> 00:26:46.820
+conference. To do it online,
+
+00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:48.400
+So many people can just access it very
+
+00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:54.220
+easily. All right, so we've messaged Colwyn.
+
+00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:56.040
+I guess we can get started with Dalim.
+
+00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:57.900
+It should maybe take a minute or 2 to join
+
+00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:01.640
+us. Should I get started with the Final words
+
+00:27:04.540 --> 00:27:04.900
+of the day? All right,
+
+00:27:05.740 --> 00:27:06.240
+cool. All right, folks,
+
+00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:08.440
+we made it. We are at the end of the second
+
+00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:10.820
+day of EmacsConf, the second of 2 days.
+
+00:27:12.620 --> 00:27:13.040
+And the first thing I want to say is first,
+
+00:27:15.360 --> 00:27:15.660
+thank you so much for joining us for this new
+
+00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:19.200
+edition. It's personally my fourth year doing
+
+00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:22.500
+the EmacsConf, but if you go to emacsconf-org
+
+00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:25.080
+and you see the different sessions,
+
+00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:27.660
+you will realize that the first 1 was in
+
+00:27:29.820 --> 00:27:30.300
+2013, which happens to be 10 years ago.
+
+00:27:33.340 --> 00:27:33.480
+So we are obviously very excited about all of
+
+00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:35.680
+this and we'll tell you perhaps a little more
+
+00:27:38.100 --> 00:27:38.300
+about what has changed over the last 10
+
+00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:42.260
+years. As usual, you know the pre-recorded
+
+00:27:44.540 --> 00:27:44.800
+talks are available right now on the talk
+
+00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:46.800
+page, at least for all those which were
+
+00:27:48.620 --> 00:27:48.760
+pre-recorded. All the ones which happened on
+
+00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:50.320
+the Google button, it will take us a little
+
+00:27:52.360 --> 00:27:52.780
+bit of time to figure out how to,
+
+00:27:54.320 --> 00:27:54.820
+well, when to put them available.
+
+00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:56.880
+We need to do subtitles and all this jazzy
+
+00:27:59.060 --> 00:27:59.440
+stuff. And we'll also upload them to YouTube
+
+00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:02.000
+and other places once we check the audio,
+
+00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:03.200
+especially for the Q&As.
+
+00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:05.280
+We need to clean up some of the audios and
+
+00:28:08.300 --> 00:28:08.680
+make sure that we do not publish any personal
+
+00:28:13.040 --> 00:28:13.220
+stuff. All the live talks and Q&As will do
+
+00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:14.700
+this in the weeks to come.
+
+00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:16.800
+Usually, it takes us about 1 to 2 months to
+
+00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:17.640
+try to get everything out,
+
+00:28:18.280 --> 00:28:18.680
+but if it takes longer,
+
+00:28:19.540 --> 00:28:20.040
+it's fine. Eventually,
+
+00:28:20.900 --> 00:28:21.180
+everything will be there.
+
+00:28:23.360 --> 00:28:23.860
+The 1 thing we can say is that by EmacsConf
+
+00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:26.660
+2024, when it comes around,
+
+00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:28.840
+everything should have been uploaded at some
+
+00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:30.600
+point. So that's a wide window.
+
+00:28:34.340 --> 00:28:34.700
+So again, and as usual,
+
+00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:36.480
+feel free to spread the word about EmacsConf
+
+00:28:38.860 --> 00:28:38.940
+because, you know, we've been doing this for
+
+00:28:42.100 --> 00:28:42.280
+a while and every year more people show up to
+
+00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:44.440
+these events and more people watch the videos
+
+00:28:46.620 --> 00:28:47.120
+on YouTube and it's wonderful to see,
+
+00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:50.220
+you know, our main goal which is to get cool
+
+00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:51.900
+ideas out of the head of people,
+
+00:28:53.860 --> 00:28:54.280
+shared and viewed by so many people.
+
+00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:57.160
+It's always amazing. Also,
+
+00:28:58.180 --> 00:28:58.680
+I would like to ask you personally,
+
+00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:00.060
+what did you like about this conference?
+
+00:29:01.780 --> 00:29:01.980
+Or what do you like, what do you feel was
+
+00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:02.860
+better than last year,
+
+00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:05.840
+because the feedback is very useful to us.
+
+00:29:07.340 --> 00:29:07.540
+We'd also like to know if you've got any
+
+00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:09.440
+ideas for making things even better.
+
+00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:12.180
+And we've got a general conference discussion
+
+00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:14.400
+slash notes slash community message board,
+
+00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:15.420
+which is pad.emaxconf.org
+
+00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:19.640
+slash 2023. And you can also just mention
+
+00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:22.300
+them. You know, we might open this room for
+
+00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:24.520
+people to join us and chat,
+
+00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:25.960
+although Flowy and myself,
+
+00:29:27.340 --> 00:29:27.540
+your up team, needs to go to bed.
+
+00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:28.680
+So please be mindful of this.
+
+00:29:29.760 --> 00:29:30.160
+If you ask a very interesting question,
+
+00:29:32.260 --> 00:29:32.560
+We will both have to make sacrifices to stay
+
+00:29:34.300 --> 00:29:34.680
+a while longer because you're too damn
+
+00:29:38.620 --> 00:29:39.080
+interesting. Now we'd like to move into
+
+00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:41.500
+thanking all the people who make EmacsConf
+
+00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:43.080
+possible. And obviously,
+
+00:29:45.060 --> 00:29:45.560
+first, we have to thank all the speakers,
+
+00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:47.460
+all the volunteers, the participants,
+
+00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:50.240
+and to all those other people in our lives
+
+00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:51.820
+who make it possible through time and
+
+00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:54.060
+support, thank you so much for allowing us to
+
+00:29:55.760 --> 00:29:55.960
+run EmacsCount. It wouldn't happen without
+
+00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:57.440
+you, and without us, I suppose,
+
+00:29:58.540 --> 00:29:59.040
+because we are included in this.
+
+00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:02.220
+This year's conference hosts are myself,
+
+00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:03.900
+Leo Vivier, Amine Bendali,
+
+00:30:05.860 --> 00:30:06.100
+and joining our team of hosts for the first
+
+00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:07.540
+time this year, Flobby Coder.
+
+00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:08.360
+Thank you so much, Flobby.
+
+00:30:09.340 --> 00:30:09.840
+You did a wonderful job.
+
+00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:12.100
+It's right there. No, dammit.
+
+00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:15.360
+No, I can't. I can never remember if BBB is
+
+00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:17.360
+flipping stuff, so either 1 of those
+
+00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:20.020
+directions. The streams this year,
+
+00:30:21.760 --> 00:30:22.200
+as last year, were managed by Sasha Schwa,
+
+00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:24.820
+obviously. And the check-ins by Flobby Coder,
+
+00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:27.740
+and I'm in with Miscellaneous running around
+
+00:30:30.020 --> 00:30:30.520
+by Corwin Brust, who will be joining us
+
+00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:32.500
+momentarily. Apparently,
+
+00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:35.140
+all his USB failed, so he will be with us as
+
+00:30:38.140 --> 00:30:38.640
+[Speaker 3]: Roost. Rhymes with Roost.
+
+00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:41.380
+Do I have audio now? Alright,
+
+00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:42.800
+I'll go to work on my camera.
+
+00:30:43.820 --> 00:30:44.320
+Hi. Hello?
+
+00:30:45.540 --> 00:30:45.980
+[Speaker 4]: soon as he can. It's Lovely.
+
+00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.140
+Okay, I'll keep going.
+
+00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:49.460
+I also need to thank, well,
+
+00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:51.480
+need, no, I want to thank all the captioning
+
+00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:53.400
+volunteers, the captioners as we call them.
+
+00:30:54.380 --> 00:30:54.880
+You've got Daniel Molina,
+
+00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:57.660
+Bala Ramadoui, Durai, sorry,
+
+00:30:59.140 --> 00:30:59.640
+Bhavin Gandhi, Amin Zayed,
+
+00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:02.440
+Yoni Rapkin, who presented 1 of the talk
+
+00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:04.740
+earlier, Daniel Alejandro Tapia,
+
+00:31:06.060 --> 00:31:06.560
+Hannah Miller, Ken Huang,
+
+00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:07.700
+Jean-Christophe Ellary,
+
+00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:10.800
+and James Howell. Also thanking
+
+00:31:11.320 --> 00:31:11.760
+Jean-Christophe Ellary,
+
+00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:13.680
+Colwyn, Quiliro, Kern,
+
+00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:15.800
+and Amin Bendali for helping with the early
+
+00:31:18.120 --> 00:31:18.620
+acceptance process. Sasha,
+
+00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:21.600
+do I read this 1? It's weird to think myself.
+
+00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:23.080
+I'm gonna pat myself on the back,
+
+00:31:24.780 --> 00:31:25.280
+I guess. Go on, Sasha.
+
+00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:26.920
+I'll do it. I'll do it.
+
+00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:29.340
+It's fine. Thanks to myself for fiddling with
+
+00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:31.400
+the audio to get things nicely synced,
+
+00:31:34.120 --> 00:31:34.340
+And thanks to myself again and other people,
+
+00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:37.340
+we kept the mailing list free from spam.
+
+00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:39.440
+Because I'm not sure what happened since May,
+
+00:31:41.820 --> 00:31:42.180
+but we've been receiving about 3 to 4 spam
+
+00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:45.040
+emails. And it just happened all of a sudden,
+
+00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:46.900
+and I was really weirded out by this process.
+
+00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:51.880
+Where was I? OK, thanks to Andrew Ducurty for
+
+00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:53.500
+helping with whisper processing.
+
+00:31:55.840 --> 00:31:56.200
+Thanks to Ashki Ghekwad for design
+
+00:31:57.540 --> 00:31:58.040
+contribution. Thanks to Yoshin,
+
+00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:00.040
+our grand changro for all the music that
+
+00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:01.960
+we've been using for the last 3 years at this
+
+00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:04.840
+point, I think. Also thanks to Rye for the
+
+00:32:06.820 --> 00:32:07.020
+server that we're using for OBS streaming and
+
+00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:08.220
+for processing videos.
+
+00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:10.800
+And also thanks to the free software
+
+00:32:12.540 --> 00:32:13.040
+foundation for obviously Emacs itself,
+
+00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:14.840
+the mailing list that we use,
+
+00:32:15.340 --> 00:32:15.840
+and the media.emacsconf-org
+
+00:32:19.540 --> 00:32:19.780
+server where all of the presentations are
+
+00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:22.580
+currently hosted. We'd also like to thank
+
+00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:24.020
+BigBlueButton, Etherpad,
+
+00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:26.420
+IceCast, OBS, The Lounge,
+
+00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:28.980
+Libre.chat, FFmpeg, OpenAI,
+
+00:32:31.300 --> 00:32:31.800
+Whisper, the E-N-E-S force alignment tool,
+
+00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.000
+Site Transfer, SubD, and contributors to all
+
+00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:37.020
+of the tools and services we used in the
+
+00:32:37.600 --> 00:32:38.000
+making of this conference.
+
+00:32:39.520 --> 00:32:39.960
+And obviously, all of them are free,
+
+00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:41.880
+as Sasha obviously told you,
+
+00:32:44.080 --> 00:32:44.260
+and as we will be telling you again for many
+
+00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:48.060
+years to come. We'd also like again to thank
+
+00:32:49.780 --> 00:32:50.140
+everyone for attending the conference and
+
+00:32:51.820 --> 00:32:52.320
+making EmacsConf what it is.
+
+00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:54.280
+And for those who were on the general track,
+
+00:32:56.540 --> 00:32:56.720
+you know Sasha did it in parallel to the last
+
+00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.340
+talk we had today. She did a wonderful talk
+
+00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:02.180
+on how EmacsConf is actually run.
+
+00:33:05.620 --> 00:33:06.060
+So there's her talk, there's also an entire
+
+00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:08.260
+page on our wiki about the infrastructure
+
+00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:10.400
+that we use. So if you're interested,
+
+00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:12.380
+especially in running an event of your own,
+
+00:33:14.340 --> 00:33:14.540
+you've got as much information as you want,
+
+00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:15.940
+and as Sacha probably told you,
+
+00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:18.100
+we are available for sharing the knowledge
+
+00:33:20.820 --> 00:33:20.940
+and enabling your dreams of making a
+
+00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:24.340
+conference. Amint, do you want to take it
+
+00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.180
+over with the fiscal sponsorship
+
+00:33:29.320 --> 00:33:29.480
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, sure. Let's see.
+
+00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:31.480
+Can you please scroll down a little bit?
+
+00:33:33.520 --> 00:33:34.020
+Whoever is kindly sharing the screen.
+
+00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:34.960
+[Speaker 4]: announcements? Okay. Oh,
+
+00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:36.360
+I was scrolling on my end.
+
+00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:36.860
+Sorry.
+
+00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:41.780
+[Speaker 1]: Thanks, Sasha. Yeah, so kind of super excited
+
+00:33:43.080 --> 00:33:43.300
+to finally get into this.
+
+00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:45.300
+And this is something that we've been kind of
+
+00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:47.200
+hoping to get worked out for a long time
+
+00:33:48.280 --> 00:33:48.780
+actually and it's finally here.
+
+00:33:52.900 --> 00:33:53.140
+So people might have already seen this but as
+
+00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.120
+of this last Thursday we're actually fiscally
+
+00:33:59.440 --> 00:33:59.940
+sponsored by the Free Software Foundation.
+
+00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:03.740
+So we joined their Working Together for Free
+
+00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:07.840
+Software program. And DFSF published the
+
+00:34:08.540 --> 00:34:08.940
+announcement on their website.
+
+00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:11.500
+You're welcome to go and check it out there.
+
+00:34:14.060 --> 00:34:14.280
+But I just want to quickly get into a little
+
+00:34:17.900 --> 00:34:18.040
+bit about what it means and some of the
+
+00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:22.000
+benefits, I guess. So as part of this working
+
+00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:23.800
+together for a free software fund,
+
+00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:26.679
+the FSF provides fiscal sponsorship for a
+
+00:34:29.060 --> 00:34:29.320
+number of important free software and new
+
+00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:31.239
+technical projects, such as the new tool
+
+00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:33.840
+chain and Replicant, which is a free fork of
+
+00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:36.540
+Android. And starting this year,
+
+00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:38.800
+EmacsConf has joined the program as well.
+
+00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:41.440
+And as a fiscal sponsor,
+
+00:34:43.520 --> 00:34:44.020
+DFSF can assist us by providing services
+
+00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:46.940
+required by a legal entity,
+
+00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:49.460
+like signing contracts and receiving and
+
+00:34:53.080 --> 00:34:53.360
+processing payments. So to provide some
+
+00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:57.040
+context, eMAXConf is and always has been an
+
+00:34:58.740 --> 00:34:58.940
+independent initiative organized by a very
+
+00:34:59.700 --> 00:35:00.140
+small number of people,
+
+00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:02.560
+a small team of people without any corporate
+
+00:35:05.980 --> 00:35:06.220
+sponsors. And that's important in part
+
+00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:09.380
+because I believe part of our message is that
+
+00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:12.040
+we want to showcase that everybody can do
+
+00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:14.380
+this and organize a conference like this no
+
+00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:17.560
+matter how small your team is and how modest
+
+00:35:19.540 --> 00:35:19.900
+your resources are, which we will actually
+
+00:35:21.260 --> 00:35:21.560
+get into a little bit later in the closing
+
+00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:25.900
+remarks. But yeah, so now having the FSF as
+
+00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:28.020
+our fiscal sponsor, we're in a better
+
+00:35:30.200 --> 00:35:30.680
+position to accept donations as 1 potential
+
+00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:33.860
+way to contribute or help the conference.
+
+00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:36.860
+And just to clarify, we're currently not
+
+00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:39.520
+struggling at all to cover these costs of the
+
+00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:41.240
+servers and such, which we will get into
+
+00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:45.060
+again. But this is just 1 extra avenue if
+
+00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:46.880
+people are feeling generous and would like to
+
+00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.380
+help, it's much appreciated.
+
+00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:54.620
+And yeah, so having a 501c3 nonprofit like
+
+00:35:57.160 --> 00:35:57.660
+the FSF, as a fiscal sponsor,
+
+00:36:00.060 --> 00:36:00.340
+many donors will receive tax benefits that
+
+00:36:02.180 --> 00:36:02.360
+they otherwise wouldn't receive if they were
+
+00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:04.680
+to like donate to like individuals running a
+
+00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:07.720
+project directly. And also donors can know
+
+00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:09.140
+that, you know, the funds that they're
+
+00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:11.420
+donating are being handled by an accountable
+
+00:36:14.060 --> 00:36:14.540
+institution. And also importantly,
+
+00:36:16.020 --> 00:36:16.520
+when donating through the FSF,
+
+00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:20.460
+Let's see, text changing.
+
+00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:23.560
+Okay, yeah. People can donate without having
+
+00:36:24.600 --> 00:36:25.100
+to run any non-free JavaScript,
+
+00:36:27.380 --> 00:36:27.880
+which is nice. Because unfortunately,
+
+00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:29.540
+usually these days on the web when you do
+
+00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:30.880
+want to buy something or spend money,
+
+00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:32.340
+you have to run non-free JavaScript,
+
+00:36:35.020 --> 00:36:35.220
+which isn't the case when donating through
+
+00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:38.160
+the FSF. Yeah, so we just joined,
+
+00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:39.500
+as I said, on Thursday,
+
+00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:43.220
+and we've already received our very first
+
+00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:45.640
+donation, so we'd like to extend our thanks
+
+00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:47.300
+and gratitude to Scott Ranby,
+
+00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:49.980
+who is actually our first ever kind donor.
+
+00:36:51.820 --> 00:36:52.320
+They agreed to be thanked publicly.
+
+00:36:55.900 --> 00:36:56.200
+So thank you, Scott. And yeah,
+
+00:36:57.040 --> 00:36:57.540
+so this is a recent development.
+
+00:36:59.800 --> 00:36:59.980
+And we plan to add much more information and
+
+00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:02.020
+details about this whole situation to the
+
+00:37:04.200 --> 00:37:04.700
+wiki, including links to the announcements,
+
+00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:06.780
+some more information about the program,
+
+00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:08.540
+and our donation page of course,
+
+00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:13.140
+in the new future. And in the meantime I'm
+
+00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:15.240
+also happy to help answer any questions as
+
+00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:18.400
+best as I can, So feel free to ping me on IRC
+
+00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:20.140
+or just email me at bandalia.guinard.org.
+
+00:37:26.140 --> 00:37:26.640
+[Speaker 3]: Which gives me a chance to jump in and just
+
+00:37:29.060 --> 00:37:29.560
+point out 1 question that we know people have
+
+00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:32.960
+is just about how much of the money goes to
+
+00:37:35.660 --> 00:37:35.860
+FSF when you make a contribution through the
+
+00:37:36.860 --> 00:37:37.360
+fund toward EmacsConf?
+
+00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:40.760
+[Speaker 1]: Right, exactly. Yeah, and the answer to that
+
+00:37:44.540 --> 00:37:44.720
+is that it's 10%, which is for supporting the
+
+00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:46.960
+operation of the Working Together program and
+
+00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:49.300
+also the shared GNU infrastructure,
+
+00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:52.540
+which we as EmacsConf use and depend on,
+
+00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:55.420
+along with several hundred GNU packages.
+
+00:37:59.860 --> 00:38:00.060
+So, yeah, and it covers things like
+
+00:38:03.060 --> 00:38:03.480
+transaction costs that the FSF's payment
+
+00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:04.500
+processor charges?
+
+00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:10.240
+[Speaker 3]: And then again I'll come back to say this is
+
+00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:12.780
+a real fair price. I have some experience
+
+00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:15.540
+with working with payment processing and
+
+00:38:19.120 --> 00:38:19.440
+things like this and like 10% that's a that's
+
+00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:22.940
+something that you see in Bigger businesses
+
+00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:26.380
+that have a model around making money on that
+
+00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:29.280
+Transaction so to be able to do that as a
+
+00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:31.760
+nonprofit. We're taking advantage of a really
+
+00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:32.900
+awesome thing there.
+
+00:38:35.860 --> 00:38:36.060
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, exactly. And yeah,
+
+00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:37.120
+just for a quick plug,
+
+00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:39.060
+the FSF is actually doing an end of year
+
+00:38:41.780 --> 00:38:42.020
+fundraiser right now. So if you want to go
+
+00:38:44.220 --> 00:38:44.700
+donate to them, or if you donate to us,
+
+00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.260
+a part of it will go to the FSF to support
+
+00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:51.900
+their work on free software,
+
+00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:53.500
+helping grow the movement,
+
+00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:56.120
+and spread the word about it.
+
+00:39:02.080 --> 00:39:02.360
+So, thank you. And I guess now is a good time
+
+00:39:05.380 --> 00:39:05.800
+for me to pass the baton to the next
+
+00:39:08.160 --> 00:39:08.320
+organizer who wants to talk about some of the
+
+00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:11.540
+specs of the servers that we use right now.
+
+00:39:14.720 --> 00:39:14.860
+[Speaker 0]: We actually don't have to go about this in
+
+00:39:16.560 --> 00:39:16.840
+detail. I just put it in there in case people
+
+00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:19.540
+were curious about how much it takes to run
+
+00:39:20.740 --> 00:39:21.240
+something like this. Not a lot.
+
+00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:23.100
+It's just really, you know,
+
+00:39:26.100 --> 00:39:26.260
+2 days of computing is not that expensive in
+
+00:39:29.060 --> 00:39:29.480
+today's world, and all the rest is just
+
+00:39:32.220 --> 00:39:32.640
+volunteer time and a heck of a lot of Emacs
+
+00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:34.280
+lists as previously discussed in our
+
+00:39:41.020 --> 00:39:41.180
+presentation. So, we'll just skip through
+
+00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:42.440
+that instead of reading all of it.
+
+00:39:43.580 --> 00:39:43.840
+Unless people are specifically curious,
+
+00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:45.140
+you can ask questions afterwards.
+
+00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:46.820
+But yes, happy birthday,
+
+00:39:49.200 --> 00:39:49.440
+EmacsConf, and here's another wonderful 10
+
+00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:49.940
+years.
+
+00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:57.040
+[Speaker 4]: All right, I think we are at the end of the
+
+00:39:58.820 --> 00:39:59.320
+closing remarks. Have I forgotten anything?
+
+00:40:00.060 --> 00:40:00.380
+We haven't had Flowy yet,
+
+00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:03.560
+I believe. Sorry for putting you on the spot
+
+00:40:03.560 --> 00:40:04.060
+again.
+
+00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:08.400
+[Speaker 6]: I guess I have nothing really to say besides
+
+00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:09.780
+what you have already said.
+
+00:40:12.560 --> 00:40:13.060
+So thank everybody to make a presentation,
+
+00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:15.640
+to do anything here. Thanks for all of you
+
+00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:17.080
+that I could be a part of it.
+
+00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.380
+I have to admit it also.
+
+00:40:21.020 --> 00:40:21.520
+So thank you all. And yeah,
+
+00:40:22.540 --> 00:40:23.040
+nothing to say probably.
+
+00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:25.840
+[Speaker 1]: And I also want to send the thanks to Flowy
+
+00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:27.380
+for, you know, stepping in.
+
+00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:29.480
+We kind of like throw this on you like at the
+
+00:40:31.560 --> 00:40:31.720
+last second, but Flowy actually stepped in
+
+00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:34.160
+and hosted graciously a couple of the talks
+
+00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:35.140
+on the Dev track today.
+
+00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:37.200
+So, which I think went very well.
+
+00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:38.980
+So congrats and thank you.
+
+00:40:39.720 --> 00:40:40.220
+[Speaker 6]: Thank you.
+
+00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:41.920
+[Speaker 4]: Speaking of which we were not monsters.
+
+00:40:43.420 --> 00:40:43.660
+We kindly asked Floey yesterday because
+
+00:40:44.540 --> 00:40:44.760
+everything was going so well.
+
+00:40:45.520 --> 00:40:45.600
+And now we can say it,
+
+00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:47.240
+you know, I can say things are going well.
+
+00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:48.880
+Usually it's a bad thing when you're doing a
+
+00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:50.740
+broadcast to say things are going well right
+
+00:40:53.080 --> 00:40:53.300
+now because it tends to backfires at some
+
+00:40:56.980 --> 00:40:57.480
+[Speaker 3]: Hours of notice, hours of notice.
+
+00:40:58.900 --> 00:40:59.400
+That, that's planning.
+
+00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:02.920
+[Speaker 4]: point. But yesterday- So hours of notice,
+
+00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:05.340
+Flowy didn't sleep all that much because we
+
+00:41:06.500 --> 00:41:06.980
+tasked him with hosting,
+
+00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:08.720
+so he was turning in his bed all night
+
+00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.460
+thinking, oh, I'm going to host MaxCons.
+
+00:41:13.660 --> 00:41:13.860
+But Flowy, you did a wonderful job and I am
+
+00:41:15.720 --> 00:41:15.940
+so glad that not only you were able to join
+
+00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:17.900
+us again this year, but that also you were
+
+00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:20.140
+able to host. Because last year,
+
+00:41:20.900 --> 00:41:21.140
+had we asked you to host,
+
+00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:22.320
+you would have said no.
+
+00:41:25.120 --> 00:41:25.580
+First time we asked you this year was yes,
+
+00:41:27.100 --> 00:41:27.600
+but give me some time to think about it.
+
+00:41:30.100 --> 00:41:30.600
+[Speaker 6]: Next year it is yes completely.
+
+00:41:32.780 --> 00:41:32.940
+[Speaker 4]: If we've done a good job,
+
+00:41:33.560 --> 00:41:34.060
+it will be yes directly.
+
+00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.080
+All right, so since we are at the end of the
+
+00:41:41.140 --> 00:41:41.320
+thankings and I did say europe team needs to
+
+00:41:43.580 --> 00:41:43.700
+go to bed in about 12 minutes that leaves us
+
+00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:46.440
+about 12 minutes to try to answer as many
+
+00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:48.340
+points as you'd like to raise.
+
+00:41:50.640 --> 00:41:50.940
+Sasha, I think the Q&A room is still open
+
+00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:53.100
+because we are technically still in the Emacs
+
+00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:54.020
+conference room currently.
+
+00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:56.660
+So, if you... We're going to put the link
+
+00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.000
+again if you need to find it.
+
+00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:00.300
+Otherwise, scroll up and find the 1 on there.
+
+00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:04.900
+[Speaker 0]: I think I can change the redirect.
+
+00:42:07.240 --> 00:42:07.740
+Maybe. I will go figure this out.
+
+00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:09.100
+Keep talking in the background.
+
+00:42:12.160 --> 00:42:12.280
+[Speaker 4]: Right. So, whilst we figure this out in the
+
+00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:13.860
+background, it would be nice if you could
+
+00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:15.040
+join us and ask questions,
+
+00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:16.020
+either by dropping them.
+
+00:42:18.080 --> 00:42:18.340
+I see plenty of people have already left some
+
+00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:19.840
+comments. We have 2 places,
+
+00:42:21.820 --> 00:42:22.240
+right now it's more about a chitchatting
+
+00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:23.360
+about the end of the conference.
+
+00:42:24.160 --> 00:42:24.660
+If you've got general feedback,
+
+00:42:26.160 --> 00:42:26.400
+we've mentioned it at the top,
+
+00:42:28.580 --> 00:42:28.780
+but if you want to write your general
+
+00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:31.080
+feedback here, it will find its way at some
+
+00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:33.160
+point in the years of the relevant people who
+
+00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:34.280
+can make things change.
+
+00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.040
+So don't worry too much about where you put
+
+00:42:37.120 --> 00:42:37.540
+your feedback, it'll be fine.
+
+00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:40.440
+But now, how about we start reading some of
+
+00:42:42.700 --> 00:42:43.080
+the notes that people have said or questions
+
+00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:43.260
+that
+
+00:42:47.094 --> 00:42:47.151
+[Speaker 3]: have been asked. So here's 1 for Amin.
+
+00:42:48.460 --> 00:42:48.820
+Do you have any stats on how many people
+
+00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:52.700
+watched for an IRC and BBB over the 2 days?
+
+00:42:58.140 --> 00:42:58.620
+[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, so I guess for IceCast,
+
+00:43:00.040 --> 00:43:00.540
+which I can answer more readily,
+
+00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:04.260
+I think yesterday we were averaging around
+
+00:43:08.120 --> 00:43:08.620
+240, 250 concurrent viewers at a time.
+
+00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:13.260
+And today, so today it varied.
+
+00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:16.740
+I think the maximum was again like around 200
+
+00:43:19.600 --> 00:43:19.820
+to 20-ish with the average being more around
+
+00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:25.460
+180, 190 viewers. We've had a lot of hits to
+
+00:43:28.700 --> 00:43:29.180
+the actual web pages for the Emacs Conf Wiki
+
+00:43:31.720 --> 00:43:31.960
+or the pad, which are all being served on 1
+
+00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:35.140
+server. I pulled some numbers.
+
+00:43:36.140 --> 00:43:36.640
+I'm not sure if they're correct.
+
+00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:38.900
+So I'm like a little bit hesitant to discuss
+
+00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:41.980
+them. Safe to say they're easily in the tens
+
+00:43:44.380 --> 00:43:44.580
+of thousands, maybe in the hundreds of
+
+00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:48.420
+thousands of total visits over the past,
+
+00:43:52.540 --> 00:43:53.040
+[Speaker 0]: Maybe the pad makes a lot of small requests.
+
+00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:54.400
+[Speaker 1]: I guess, 48 hours. Right,
+
+00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:57.200
+okay. So, yeah, that's why I'm hesitant to
+
+00:43:59.240 --> 00:43:59.380
+say. But yeah, easily in the thousands or
+
+00:44:01.860 --> 00:44:02.020
+[Speaker 3]: You know
+
+00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:03.260
+[Speaker 4]: who you are anyway, the crowd,
+
+00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:04.240
+you know how many you are,
+
+00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:05.840
+you do not need exact numbers
+
+00:44:08.720 --> 00:44:09.220
+[Speaker 1]: tens of thousands. Yeah,
+
+00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:11.200
+so I don't have the exact numbers but I guess
+
+00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:13.460
+it's always kind of fun to maybe try to pull
+
+00:44:15.700 --> 00:44:15.840
+some numbers and look at it that way but you
+
+00:44:18.080 --> 00:44:18.580
+know of course we all know that what we do,
+
+00:44:19.720 --> 00:44:20.220
+every single person counts.
+
+00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:24.660
+So I don't know, trying to look at turning
+
+00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:28.400
+people into abstract numbers isn't,
+
+00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.820
+I don't know, inspiring to me very much,
+
+00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:32.340
+but it's cool. So.
+
+00:44:36.020 --> 00:44:36.140
+[Speaker 4]: All right. So how about we go into the
+
+00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:38.140
+questions. So Sasha is now in the viewport
+
+00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:39.780
+where we can see some questions.
+
+00:44:41.200 --> 00:44:41.700
+So how about we take some of them.
+
+00:44:43.900 --> 00:44:44.060
+I can read them or if anyone of the
+
+00:44:45.020 --> 00:44:45.520
+organizers wants to do this,
+
+00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:47.040
+feel free, especially those who haven't
+
+00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:48.540
+talked to a whole lot this year.
+
+00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:53.480
+Cohen, do you want to try it?
+
+00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:55.260
+[Speaker 3]: I didn't make my motive clear.
+
+00:44:59.220 --> 00:44:59.500
+I did and I'm done. I took the first
+
+00:45:01.120 --> 00:45:01.320
+question, I picked the bottom question off
+
+00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:03.120
+the list because I knew exactly who it was
+
+00:45:05.140 --> 00:45:05.500
+going for. The person who wants to answer or
+
+00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:07.580
+direct the next question is welcome.
+
+00:45:10.520 --> 00:45:10.760
+Sorry, I could have given a little better
+
+00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:11.680
+stage direction there.
+
+00:45:13.660 --> 00:45:14.160
+I'm not prepared to answer how many emaxers
+
+00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:16.560
+are from Nordic countries other than to say
+
+00:45:17.680 --> 00:45:18.180
+definitely yes and several.
+
+00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:22.080
+And I haven't looked close enough at the
+
+00:45:22.580 --> 00:45:23.080
+suggestion yet.
+
+00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:27.720
+[Speaker 4]: Right, okay. I can take the question about
+
+00:45:30.020 --> 00:45:30.060
+the BBB limitations. So it's the second 1,
+
+00:45:31.560 --> 00:45:32.060
+the red 1. Small suggestion,
+
+00:45:33.120 --> 00:45:33.520
+likely out of your control,
+
+00:45:36.340 --> 00:45:36.660
+but anyway, the blue button seems to work
+
+00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:38.560
+very well, but it would be a bit more
+
+00:45:40.680 --> 00:45:40.840
+watchable if the webcam frames were lined up
+
+00:45:42.660 --> 00:45:42.920
+vertically on 1 side, because it would allow
+
+00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:44.920
+the screen share frames to be larger and
+
+00:45:47.080 --> 00:45:47.560
+would make much better use of the viewable
+
+00:45:49.740 --> 00:45:50.240
+space. Maybe worth a bug report to upstream.
+
+00:45:53.080 --> 00:45:53.420
+And I agree, BBB has been really good.
+
+00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900
+Amine, did you want to say something?
+
+00:45:55.120 --> 00:45:55.240
+[Speaker 3]: I'm going
+
+00:45:56.760 --> 00:45:56.880
+[Speaker 1]: to continue and then I'll add something at
+
+00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.460
+the end.
+
+00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:00.100
+[Speaker 4]: Okay, sure. So BBB has been really good for
+
+00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:04.940
+us. It allows us to have many parallel rooms
+
+00:46:07.700 --> 00:46:07.800
+which are all recording service side at the
+
+00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:10.120
+same time. And it's wonderful for us because
+
+00:46:11.260 --> 00:46:11.580
+we can gather. At some point,
+
+00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:13.820
+I think last year, we had 4 concurrent talks
+
+00:46:15.220 --> 00:46:15.360
+being recorded because people were just so
+
+00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:17.540
+interested in what was going on in rooms.
+
+00:46:19.040 --> 00:46:19.540
+And you know, we only,
+
+00:46:21.660 --> 00:46:22.160
+like this year, the co-organizers,
+
+00:46:23.720 --> 00:46:23.940
+it's the 5 people you see in a room
+
+00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:26.880
+currently. And if we had all of us to be in a
+
+00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:28.580
+separate room, having to record on the
+
+00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:29.640
+machine, it wouldn't work.
+
+00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:32.280
+So we are able to demultiply the amount of
+
+00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:34.060
+content that we produce thanks to BBB,
+
+00:46:37.540 --> 00:46:37.700
+but sadly, we are also quite limited by the
+
+00:46:39.560 --> 00:46:39.720
+interface of BBB. Another problem that is
+
+00:46:43.860 --> 00:46:44.360
+dear to me is that audio tends to be fairly
+
+00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:46.740
+bad at some points depending on the speakers
+
+00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:50.580
+because BBB has really funky audio correction
+
+00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:51.820
+stuff going in the background,
+
+00:46:52.540 --> 00:46:52.900
+and sometimes it works,
+
+00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.260
+sometimes it doesn't work,
+
+00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:55.980
+and especially on my machine,
+
+00:46:58.320 --> 00:46:58.480
+the specs are above in the document if you're
+
+00:47:02.040 --> 00:47:02.220
+interested, but BBB and OBS do not play well
+
+00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:04.820
+at all. You might have heard me speaking with
+
+00:47:06.120 --> 00:47:06.500
+some clicks in my voice at some point.
+
+00:47:07.600 --> 00:47:08.100
+That's another problem of BBB.
+
+00:47:09.240 --> 00:47:09.520
+Anyway, I mean, you wanted to add something
+
+00:47:09.720 --> 00:47:10.220
+as well.
+
+00:47:14.060 --> 00:47:14.340
+[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, I kind of empathize and also
+
+00:47:17.220 --> 00:47:17.640
+emphasize the problems with audio on BBB
+
+00:47:19.860 --> 00:47:20.360
+sometimes, but about the specific suggestion
+
+00:47:22.540 --> 00:47:22.760
+here of like lighting things up at least
+
+00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:24.960
+visually, I think that's like much more
+
+00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:27.440
+doable even if you don't open a bug upstream.
+
+00:47:30.140 --> 00:47:30.520
+I believe the Free Software Foundation for
+
+00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:31.860
+their LibrePlanet conference,
+
+00:47:33.740 --> 00:47:34.200
+either last year or the year before,
+
+00:47:36.500 --> 00:47:36.760
+they had some custom, like clients signed
+
+00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:38.500
+into browser, custom CSS,
+
+00:47:40.520 --> 00:47:40.720
+where it would do exactly something like
+
+00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:44.820
+that. It would like enlarge the shared screen
+
+00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:47.000
+on the 1 side and then stack up all of the
+
+00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:48.280
+webcam feeds on 1 side.
+
+00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:50.440
+So we might be able to use something like
+
+00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:50.940
+that.
+
+00:47:53.040 --> 00:47:53.540
+[Speaker 3]: So I'll tack on to that.
+
+00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:56.880
+And now I feel like a heel as soon as I
+
+00:47:59.340 --> 00:47:59.500
+opened my mouth, because I think I almost get
+
+00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:01.720
+the sense Floyd wants to jump in here and
+
+00:48:03.680 --> 00:48:03.840
+we're all talking, everyone except Sasha who
+
+00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:06.660
+actually wrote OBS, you know,
+
+00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:10.920
+the OBS WebSocket plugin that is probably the
+
+00:48:12.100 --> 00:48:12.600
+answer to all the different questions
+
+00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:13.480
+everyone is bringing up.
+
+00:48:15.060 --> 00:48:15.420
+So I guess I'll leave my input at that And
+
+00:48:16.680 --> 00:48:16.800
+Chloe, did you have anything to say,
+
+00:48:17.720 --> 00:48:18.220
+or can we pick on Sasha?
+
+00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:20.960
+[Speaker 6]: Nothing to say.
+
+00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:25.320
+[Speaker 0]: I need to update the OBS WebSocket plugin for
+
+00:48:27.260 --> 00:48:27.440
+the protocol change, because I think the
+
+00:48:29.040 --> 00:48:29.540
+protocol change was from 4 to 5.
+
+00:48:32.080 --> 00:48:32.300
+It's 1 of those things that I haven't gotten
+
+00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:35.580
+[Speaker 1]: Cool. But
+
+00:48:37.120 --> 00:48:37.280
+[Speaker 0]: around to. yeah, so we'll try to solve it in
+
+00:48:41.240 --> 00:48:41.380
+CSS. So if I can tinker with the CSS or if
+
+00:48:44.160 --> 00:48:44.380
+somebody else would like to volunteer to move
+
+00:48:45.720 --> 00:48:46.220
+things around, then that would be fantastic
+
+00:48:48.040 --> 00:48:48.540
+because front-end should be things.
+
+00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:53.600
+Okay, oh, what order of magnitude hours do
+
+00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:55.520
+you each of you think you devote to the
+
+00:48:58.260 --> 00:48:58.580
+conference yearly? I have I expected someone
+
+00:48:59.540 --> 00:49:00.040
+would ask this question.
+
+00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:08.120
+So I have I have my the past 11 years of time
+
+00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:11.400
+analysis. This is my Emacs category,
+
+00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:13.280
+so it also includes Emacs news.
+
+00:49:15.660 --> 00:49:16.160
+So this is my Emacs hours by month and year.
+
+00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:18.420
+So you can see last year,
+
+00:49:21.140 --> 00:49:21.640
+it spiked up a lot. But this year,
+
+00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:23.440
+it has taken less time.
+
+00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:26.760
+So last month, it was about 93 hours.
+
+00:49:29.020 --> 00:49:29.520
+And the month before that was just about 87
+
+00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:31.880
+hours of prep. And this actually includes
+
+00:49:33.240 --> 00:49:33.740
+things like captioning and,
+
+00:49:36.260 --> 00:49:36.340
+and coordination. And then you can see a
+
+00:49:38.560 --> 00:49:38.940
+little bit of time here like the EMAX news
+
+00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:42.440
+and and harvesting q&a and adding chapter
+
+00:49:43.780 --> 00:49:44.280
+index indices and things like that.
+
+00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:48.460
+So I, I like it, it's it's my form of fun.
+
+00:49:50.540 --> 00:49:50.640
+And Otherwise, I'm mostly just,
+
+00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:53.460
+you know, helping the kiddo go to play dates
+
+00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:54.820
+and carrying things around.
+
+00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:57.500
+And, you know, so this is the stuff that I do
+
+00:49:58.260 --> 00:49:58.760
+to keep my brain happy.
+
+00:50:00.060 --> 00:50:00.320
+And if you're wondering,
+
+00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:01.860
+okay, well, do you sleep?
+
+00:50:03.520 --> 00:50:03.820
+That's the next question I expected people
+
+00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:05.060
+ask. The answer is yes,
+
+00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:06.660
+we still actually do manage to sleep,
+
+00:50:09.640 --> 00:50:09.800
+or at least I do. Less so now that I have a
+
+00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:11.260
+kid, this is like 2016,
+
+00:50:13.100 --> 00:50:13.260
+had a kiddo, and then suddenly much less
+
+00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:14.800
+sleep, but still a reasonable amount of
+
+00:50:16.780 --> 00:50:17.280
+sleep. So Emacs stuff happens,
+
+00:50:19.600 --> 00:50:20.100
+I can still sleep, and it's a lot of fun.
+
+00:50:23.260 --> 00:50:23.760
+[Speaker 4]: Now that's data for you folks.
+
+00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:27.460
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, we can't top that at all.
+
+00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:30.820
+[Speaker 0]: It's a blog post also,
+
+00:50:30.820 --> 00:50:31.320
+yeah.
+
+00:50:33.160 --> 00:50:33.340
+[Speaker 4]: Especially, you start like this,
+
+00:50:36.540 --> 00:50:37.040
+how do you expect all of us to say anything
+
+00:50:38.680 --> 00:50:38.740
+after this? Whatever we say is not going to
+
+00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:40.680
+be backed up by data, it's not going to be as
+
+00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:42.520
+many hours, and it's not going to be as
+
+00:50:43.180 --> 00:50:43.680
+qualitative in general.
+
+00:50:53.640 --> 00:50:53.900
+I can remark on something because for me it's
+
+00:50:56.040 --> 00:50:56.540
+my fourth year helping to organize EmacsConf
+
+00:50:59.280 --> 00:50:59.780
+and there's a definite change this year.
+
+00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:02.980
+I did spend, usually I get into EmacsConf
+
+00:51:05.640 --> 00:51:06.040
+mode in late September when I start worrying
+
+00:51:07.900 --> 00:51:08.080
+about the CFP, the call for proposal is
+
+00:51:09.720 --> 00:51:10.080
+finishing, and then we need to start running
+
+00:51:12.580 --> 00:51:12.780
+after speakers to secure the proposals to
+
+00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:14.360
+make sure, oh, can you do this?
+
+00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:16.680
+Can you do maybe a 10-minute format instead
+
+00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:17.560
+of a 20-minute format,
+
+00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:19.260
+you know, all this jazzy stuff.
+
+00:51:21.820 --> 00:51:22.020
+And usually it kind of looks like Sasha for
+
+00:51:22.940 --> 00:51:23.400
+me in terms of involvement,
+
+00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:25.400
+or at least it did for the previous year.
+
+00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:29.300
+But this year, now that I've been gainfully
+
+00:51:30.220 --> 00:51:30.720
+employed as a software developer,
+
+00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:33.900
+I found it much harder to find the time to
+
+00:51:36.500 --> 00:51:36.660
+invest into MaxComp. But 1 of the things that
+
+00:51:39.520 --> 00:51:39.800
+allowed me to still stay efficient at my day
+
+00:51:42.100 --> 00:51:42.260
+job is the fact that I knew that Sasha and
+
+00:51:43.680 --> 00:51:44.180
+all the work that we did in previous years
+
+00:51:46.240 --> 00:51:46.560
+would come to help us organize this year's
+
+00:51:48.160 --> 00:51:48.560
+conference. And I'm not kidding,
+
+00:51:49.900 --> 00:51:50.140
+this year, I've been keeping an eye,
+
+00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:51.480
+obviously, and we've been chatting with all
+
+00:51:53.860 --> 00:51:54.340
+the organizers, but it's mostly been Sasha
+
+00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:57.080
+holding the fort from the end of the CFP in
+
+00:52:00.060 --> 00:52:00.560
+September to right about end of November.
+
+00:52:02.220 --> 00:52:02.720
+So I'll use the opportunity,
+
+00:52:04.780 --> 00:52:05.160
+as well my fellow co-organizers will,
+
+00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:07.480
+to thank you Sasha for putting so much time
+
+00:52:09.720 --> 00:52:09.900
+and energy into this. Not only Sasha from
+
+00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:11.920
+this year, but also Sasha from last year,
+
+00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:13.340
+and last year, and last year.
+
+00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:20.160
+And I will not be able to give you a figure
+
+00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:21.000
+of how much time it takes.
+
+00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:23.220
+I can tell you that the 2 days of Emacs Con
+
+00:52:28.180 --> 00:52:28.380
+are a bloody marathon because we cannot share
+
+00:52:31.060 --> 00:52:31.220
+our screens with you, but Sasha has given you
+
+00:52:32.220 --> 00:52:32.580
+a little bit of pointers about,
+
+00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:34.580
+you know, how much stuff we need to monitor.
+
+00:52:36.560 --> 00:52:36.820
+Sasha just switches constantly between
+
+00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:39.320
+workspaces. I just put everything on 1
+
+00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:41.900
+workspace and my screen looks absolutely
+
+00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:44.920
+mental. And then I wonder why my microphone
+
+00:52:46.020 --> 00:52:46.520
+is clipping on BVB, I suppose.
+
+00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:47.540
+All right, that's all for me.
+
+00:52:48.900 --> 00:52:49.040
+Anyone wants to say anything about how much
+
+00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.420
+time it takes? Sasha, please.
+
+00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:53.000
+[Speaker 0]: I have a nice setup this year because I
+
+00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:55.960
+actually have a Matthew Lent donated a
+
+00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:57.660
+computer to me that can handle the big
+
+00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:00.420
+monitor and I'm stealing my husband's big
+
+00:53:01.100 --> 00:53:01.280
+monitor over there. See,
+
+00:53:02.240 --> 00:53:02.740
+So this is my setup today.
+
+00:53:05.600 --> 00:53:06.020
+It's got like conference stuff on my laptop
+
+00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:09.240
+and then just IOC on the other big screen and
+
+00:53:10.640 --> 00:53:11.000
+the 480p so I can see,
+
+00:53:12.340 --> 00:53:12.840
+I can make sure it doesn't fall down.
+
+00:53:14.900 --> 00:53:15.400
+Yes, so I have a nice setup today.
+
+00:53:22.260 --> 00:53:22.400
+[Speaker 4]: Anyone wants to comment about how much time
+
+00:53:24.160 --> 00:53:24.360
+it takes for them to organize the MaxCon for
+
+00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:25.940
+2, you know, including everything,
+
+00:53:26.580 --> 00:53:27.080
+be it the brainstorming,
+
+00:53:28.940 --> 00:53:29.440
+the answering volunteers and stuff like this?
+
+00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:31.640
+Or we can move to another question,
+
+00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.300
+of course.
+
+00:53:34.600 --> 00:53:34.960
+[Speaker 1]: I mean, I know for myself,
+
+00:53:36.180 --> 00:53:36.580
+I kind of dropped the ball this year,
+
+00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:39.440
+somewhat unintentionally or unintentionally.
+
+00:53:41.640 --> 00:53:42.040
+Well, yeah, I didn't have any other choice,
+
+00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:44.780
+basically, at least in like September through
+
+00:53:46.940 --> 00:53:47.440
+like early November or mid November.
+
+00:53:51.100 --> 00:53:51.500
+But I think like, it sort of differs,
+
+00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:52.820
+I guess, from year to year.
+
+00:53:53.520 --> 00:53:54.020
+Sometimes life happens,
+
+00:53:57.900 --> 00:53:58.400
+and no matter how much you would love to put
+
+00:53:59.540 --> 00:53:59.880
+a ton of time into something,
+
+00:54:01.620 --> 00:54:01.820
+you just can't. And maybe next year you can
+
+00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:04.540
+do a lot more. So I'm optimistic I'll be able
+
+00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:07.260
+to put in much more time into things for
+
+00:54:09.580 --> 00:54:10.080
+EmacsConf next year, but that's just me.
+
+00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:12.560
+[Speaker 4]: I just want to say something before Robin
+
+00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:14.400
+drops in. Sasha, go please first.
+
+00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:19.120
+[Speaker 0]: And I think people shouldn't like feel bad
+
+00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:20.780
+about having those. I think designing
+
+00:54:24.120 --> 00:54:24.280
+conference systems or processes so that they
+
+00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:27.300
+can take advantage of little pockets of time
+
+00:54:30.460 --> 00:54:30.680
+is the way to go. I love the fact that we now
+
+00:54:33.200 --> 00:54:33.360
+have a system where hosts can show up on the
+
+00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:35.680
+day of and just rock it,
+
+00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:37.380
+right? So this is great.
+
+00:54:41.580 --> 00:54:42.080
+It is good that we can get by with less time
+
+00:54:43.940 --> 00:54:44.120
+throughout the process and just take
+
+00:54:45.660 --> 00:54:46.160
+advantage of whatever time people have.
+
+00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:47.180
+Whether it's, you know,
+
+00:54:49.120 --> 00:54:49.280
+they've got 2 hours, they want to caption a
+
+00:54:51.560 --> 00:54:52.040
+talk, that sort of stuff is already totally
+
+00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540
+awesome.
+
+00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:57.980
+[Speaker 3]: And yeah, you both, thank you.
+
+00:55:00.820 --> 00:55:01.020
+Yeah, you both stole my Thunder and then put
+
+00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:04.120
+a quarterback in me. I couldn't agree more
+
+00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:05.280
+with everything you said.
+
+00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:09.220
+That's something that just typifies what is
+
+00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:10.860
+amazing about this conference,
+
+00:55:12.340 --> 00:55:12.840
+right? It's a kind of accessibility,
+
+00:55:17.120 --> 00:55:17.500
+isn't it? Having some work I can give you
+
+00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:19.880
+that helps you give back to your community
+
+00:55:21.340 --> 00:55:21.840
+that is at your level,
+
+00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:23.800
+that fits your time budget,
+
+00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:27.120
+that is something that you're willing to go
+
+00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:28.780
+care about because it intersects,
+
+00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:31.780
+you know, the world you live in in some
+
+00:55:34.240 --> 00:55:34.540
+practical way and therefore you can make time
+
+00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:37.860
+for it. We all live in a lot of different
+
+00:55:40.520 --> 00:55:40.600
+trenches and making them intersect is 1 of
+
+00:55:42.500 --> 00:55:43.000
+the things Emacs does in a technical way
+
+00:55:43.820 --> 00:55:44.020
+[Speaker 5]: and
+
+00:55:47.260 --> 00:55:47.580
+[Speaker 3]: through this conference at least in a very
+
+00:55:51.100 --> 00:55:51.340
+community way. Okay, and it brings me back
+
+00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:52.680
+also on the OBS front.
+
+00:55:54.080 --> 00:55:54.240
+And I think that's what really excited me
+
+00:55:56.260 --> 00:55:56.580
+too. When I think about the potential that's
+
+00:55:59.440 --> 00:55:59.940
+out there and getting a bunch of people
+
+00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:02.080
+looking at the work you've already done with
+
+00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:04.440
+OBS WebSocket and thinking about,
+
+00:56:06.660 --> 00:56:06.960
+you know, oh, we want more timers that count
+
+00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.340
+things down and we want each organizer to be
+
+00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:11.040
+able to have a little palette of them,
+
+00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:12.940
+some of which are gonna be handed to you by
+
+00:56:14.620 --> 00:56:14.760
+the conference director and some of which you
+
+00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:17.240
+can add yourself because they help you and
+
+00:56:19.600 --> 00:56:20.020
+that's right. And, you know,
+
+00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:22.120
+have, you know, keeping things really fast
+
+00:56:24.120 --> 00:56:24.620
+and loose so we can make the artistic
+
+00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:27.340
+decisions on the fly that make our conference
+
+00:56:30.340 --> 00:56:30.840
+what it is, but then making,
+
+00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:33.740
+you know, a simple automated tool chain that
+
+00:56:36.380 --> 00:56:36.560
+anyone can learn and that we know how to
+
+00:56:37.700 --> 00:56:38.200
+execute the steps of manually.
+
+00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:41.280
+That's the actual design pattern that you've
+
+00:56:42.980 --> 00:56:43.480
+implemented here that's working so well.
+
+00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:47.580
+So the
+
+00:56:50.080 --> 00:56:50.540
+[Speaker 4]: 1 thing I wanted to ask about Amin saying,
+
+00:56:51.600 --> 00:56:52.100
+oh, I've dropped the ball this year.
+
+00:56:53.600 --> 00:56:53.940
+Amin's, just to be clear with everyone,
+
+00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:55.520
+Amin's definition of dropping the ball is
+
+00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:57.360
+securing a sponsorship with the FSF.
+
+00:56:58.680 --> 00:56:59.180
+So that's dropping the ball for you.
+
+00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:02.720
+[Speaker 3]: Well attending a weekly meeting,
+
+00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:04.640
+We take 1 week off a month where we
+
+00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:08.720
+coordinate infrastructure issues between this
+
+00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:13.440
+and other FSF supported projects using quote
+
+00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:14.820
+unquote GNU infrastructure.
+
+00:57:16.860 --> 00:57:17.360
+That's kind of a, GNU is really an umbrella
+
+00:57:19.220 --> 00:57:19.720
+term once you get kind of close to it.
+
+00:57:22.220 --> 00:57:22.400
+You know, it's like GNU is all of the
+
+00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:25.240
+volunteers helping with this vision we have
+
+00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:26.340
+of user rights.
+
+00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:31.560
+[Speaker 4]: 1 last thing I wanted to add about how much
+
+00:57:32.220 --> 00:57:32.480
+time we spend on this.
+
+00:57:33.900 --> 00:57:34.400
+It's just the fact that we've experimented
+
+00:57:36.180 --> 00:57:36.380
+over the 4 years I've been part of this.
+
+00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:38.760
+You know, the first year we had so many
+
+00:57:40.720 --> 00:57:40.840
+meetings because we thought this would be the
+
+00:57:42.640 --> 00:57:42.800
+way to know 1 another and this would be the
+
+00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:44.780
+way to create qualitative notes.
+
+00:57:46.520 --> 00:57:46.560
+And we've come back to this.
+
+00:57:48.180 --> 00:57:48.340
+[Speaker 3]: That is what I saw. I can't help but
+
+00:57:49.940 --> 00:57:50.440
+interrupt you again. This is all I do.
+
+00:57:52.080 --> 00:57:52.580
+Leo This is why I keep off the microphone
+
+00:57:54.060 --> 00:57:54.440
+until the last 20 minutes of the conference
+
+00:57:56.580 --> 00:57:56.760
+once everybody already wants to hang up Then
+
+00:57:58.940 --> 00:57:59.080
+I know you'll be honest with me But I have to
+
+00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:02.240
+say when I looked at that table of data all I
+
+00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:05.440
+saw was 200 hours of Sasha's life that she
+
+00:58:06.940 --> 00:58:07.240
+spent talking to the, you know,
+
+00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:08.680
+all many of us were involved.
+
+00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:11.320
+It's not just the 4 or 5 of us that,
+
+00:58:13.160 --> 00:58:13.460
+you know, that have done this last 2 years
+
+00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:14.940
+convention, right? It's,
+
+00:58:17.120 --> 00:58:17.260
+you know, there's been many people that have
+
+00:58:19.340 --> 00:58:19.780
+come in, shared wise thoughts,
+
+00:58:22.120 --> 00:58:22.420
+helping us form the, I don't know,
+
+00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:24.620
+ethos or all of the things that we're
+
+00:58:26.680 --> 00:58:27.180
+carrying forward into 2024.
+
+00:58:31.460 --> 00:58:31.960
+Sorry, Leo.
+
+00:58:32.640 --> 00:58:32.880
+[Speaker 1]: No, no,
+
+00:58:33.560 --> 00:58:33.940
+[Speaker 4]: you're fine, You're fine.
+
+00:58:35.980 --> 00:58:36.060
+I mean, you pretty much continued with what I
+
+00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:38.000
+was going to talk about.
+
+00:58:41.040 --> 00:58:41.540
+So I'm looking at the time and I've already
+
+00:58:44.640 --> 00:58:44.700
+extended by 5 minutes the amount of time I
+
+00:58:46.640 --> 00:58:46.800
+was supposed to stay and Flowy is looking at
+
+00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:50.660
+me with very teary eyes because he's thinking
+
+00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:52.280
+about the meeting he's going to have at 9am
+
+00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:53.940
+tomorrow, as will I by the way.
+
+00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:54.920
+Yeah, don't you have to
+
+00:58:56.380 --> 00:58:56.760
+[Speaker 3]: be commuting like right now Flowy?
+
+00:58:58.200 --> 00:58:58.700
+I mean aren't you supposed to be...
+
+00:59:01.560 --> 00:59:01.840
+I hope you get to sleep before work.
+
+00:59:04.820 --> 00:59:04.960
+Thank you so much for your awesome work this
+
+00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:05.460
+year.
+
+00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:07.680
+[Speaker 6]: I mean, I didn't do so much at the Emojis
+
+00:59:09.100 --> 00:59:09.600
+Conference, so I'm just here like from
+
+00:59:13.180 --> 00:59:13.320
+Friday. At first, I was looking at the
+
+00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:15.060
+website, which talks we're having,
+
+00:59:17.860 --> 00:59:18.040
+So it's all fine. So maybe next year or the
+
+00:59:19.740 --> 00:59:19.960
+coming year, I can do a little bit more
+
+00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:20.460
+privacy.
+
+00:59:23.260 --> 00:59:23.760
+[Speaker 4]: A little more, like again,
+
+00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:26.420
+like with Amin, Flowy's definition of doing,
+
+00:59:30.240 --> 00:59:30.400
+not having done much is hosting 1 of many of
+
+00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:34.240
+the Dev talks. So you could be kind of
+
+00:59:35.680 --> 00:59:36.140
+worried about it. All right,
+
+00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:38.720
+folks, considering the question that we have
+
+00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:40.640
+right now, we still see people adding
+
+00:59:42.260 --> 00:59:42.620
+questions, but I think we are all pretty
+
+00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:45.060
+tired and we need to get on with the rest of
+
+00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:46.780
+our weekends or nights.
+
+00:59:49.740 --> 00:59:50.080
+So do I go into parting words now everyone?
+
+00:59:50.720 --> 00:59:51.220
+Are we okay with this?
+
+00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:55.680
+I'll take this for a yes.
+
+00:59:56.780 --> 00:59:57.280
+I'll ask Sasha, yeah?
+
+01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:01.080
+[Speaker 0]: Oh I think I basically have until the kiddo
+
+01:00:03.560 --> 01:00:03.760
+yells at me to come for dinner so I can hang
+
+01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:04.940
+out with people after.
+
+01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:09.740
+and do the wrapping up.
+
+01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:10.080
+[Speaker 3]: But I
+
+01:00:10.080 --> 01:00:10.440
+[Speaker 4]: All right, splendid. Go ahead know,
+
+01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:12.600
+right, I'll do the wrapping up for the
+
+01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:14.040
+perhaps the stream. We might leave it up
+
+01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:16.700
+because there's no impetus for us to close
+
+01:00:20.100 --> 01:00:20.280
+it. But at least to officially close while
+
+01:00:22.340 --> 01:00:22.840
+we're still there, EmacsConf 2023,
+
+01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:25.900
+I will have again to thank everyone,
+
+01:00:28.200 --> 01:00:28.700
+all the speakers, all my co-organizers for
+
+01:00:31.020 --> 01:00:31.160
+making this possible. You've seen all the
+
+01:00:32.120 --> 01:00:32.260
+care that we put into it,
+
+01:00:34.900 --> 01:00:35.320
+and we are glad every year that all this work
+
+01:00:37.940 --> 01:00:38.440
+is doing something in terms of community
+
+01:00:41.420 --> 01:00:41.600
+building, in terms of leading more people to
+
+01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:43.380
+join us every year as speakers,
+
+01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:45.540
+or just join us as a user of Emacs.
+
+01:00:49.940 --> 01:00:50.100
+And it's always a pleasure to organize the
+
+01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640
+conference, to host it,
+
+01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:53.620
+and to work with everyone in the room
+
+01:00:56.840 --> 01:00:57.340
+currently. Corwin and I are constantly joking
+
+01:00:59.640 --> 01:01:00.140
+when we are backstage making jokes.
+
+01:01:03.540 --> 01:01:03.840
+I think it's Corwin we said last year during
+
+01:01:06.620 --> 01:01:06.900
+the closing remarks that there was no other
+
+01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:09.500
+place they'd rather be than in the backstage.
+
+01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:12.940
+And for me, even though many things have
+
+01:01:15.040 --> 01:01:15.360
+changed in my life over the last year,
+
+01:01:16.240 --> 01:01:16.740
+many good things have happened,
+
+01:01:19.640 --> 01:01:19.860
+it's good to come back to Emacs Cons as this
+
+01:01:22.080 --> 01:01:22.580
+milestone and say, oh yeah,
+
+01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:24.220
+I'm exactly where I want to be,
+
+01:01:25.320 --> 01:01:25.820
+with the people I want to be with,
+
+01:01:29.020 --> 01:01:29.220
+and I see myself and I cannot wait to see
+
+01:01:30.660 --> 01:01:31.080
+myself again in the situation next year.
+
+01:01:32.080 --> 01:01:32.580
+So thank you so much everyone.
+
+01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:34.640
+If you want to join us,
+
+01:01:36.100 --> 01:01:36.180
+ask questions, we'll still be here for a
+
+01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:37.640
+while. Floey might drop out,
+
+01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:40.020
+I might drop out, Sasha might drop out,
+
+01:01:41.600 --> 01:01:41.880
+but we'll be here to answer as many questions
+
+01:01:43.140 --> 01:01:43.640
+as you want for as long as we can.
+
+01:01:46.120 --> 01:01:46.280
+Bye bye everyone and let's get started with
+
+01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:47.300
+the after show now.
+
+01:01:51.540 --> 01:01:52.040
+[Speaker 0]: Bye Leo, bye Chloe! I'll drop out eventually
+
+01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:53.500
+when the kiddo yells at me.
+
+01:01:56.200 --> 01:01:56.440
+[Speaker 3]: I can't tell you how much fun this is,
+
+01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:58.440
+yeah. The way to remember what I said,
+
+01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:00.700
+Leo, it's 100% true. Oh man,
+
+01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:01.640
+turning off your lights,
+
+01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:03.220
+I'm doing it. I'm doing it too.
+
+01:02:04.600 --> 01:02:04.900
+Sorry y'all. Oh, yeah,
+
+01:02:05.380 --> 01:02:05.880
+bye-bye lights
+
+01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:10.760
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, that's every year that's how we finish
+
+01:02:12.340 --> 01:02:12.500
+we just turn off the the big lights that we
+
+01:02:14.240 --> 01:02:14.440
+have in our faces all the day especially the
+
+01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:14.940
+hosts
+
+01:02:19.120 --> 01:02:19.460
+[Speaker 3]: and Tell me if there's too much back chatter
+
+01:02:22.700 --> 01:02:23.200
+[Speaker 5]: get off my headphones,
+
+01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:24.720
+too, so I can
+
+01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:25.760
+[Speaker 3]: when I hear you in the room.
+
+01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:29.360
+Can I hear you now? Yeah.
+
+01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:32.460
+Is it feeding back pretty bad?
+
+01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:34.980
+[Speaker 1]: Hello? there is some echo.
+
+01:02:37.460 --> 01:02:37.960
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, there is some echo.
+
+01:02:41.200 --> 01:02:41.380
+[Speaker 3]: I think Okay. Fine. I can live with my
+
+01:02:42.160 --> 01:02:42.660
+headset a little longer.
+
+01:02:44.860 --> 01:02:45.360
+I give 1 ear a break at a time.
+
+01:02:47.140 --> 01:02:47.640
+[Speaker 1]: Thanks for your sacrifice.
+
+01:02:50.060 --> 01:02:50.560
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, well, you know, it's a small,
+
+01:02:53.080 --> 01:02:53.360
+small, small price to pay to get to smooth
+
+01:02:56.600 --> 01:02:56.820
+with y'all. Yeah, I was just looking at that
+
+01:02:58.580 --> 01:02:58.820
+chart and I was thinking about all of those
+
+01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:01.560
+meetings that we had like 18 months we were
+
+01:03:05.900 --> 01:03:06.400
+just on this death march to organize this and
+
+01:03:09.240 --> 01:03:09.520
+it's just such an amazing accomplishment that
+
+01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:12.140
+you you have here Sasha like I'm sorry to
+
+01:03:14.540 --> 01:03:14.760
+pick on you personally but the work that you
+
+01:03:16.680 --> 01:03:17.180
+put in keep being able to keep it the whole
+
+01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:19.260
+technical project in your mind,
+
+01:03:21.580 --> 01:03:21.760
+all the way down to presenting it at this
+
+01:03:24.100 --> 01:03:24.480
+year's conference and like kind of spoon
+
+01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:26.520
+feeding it to people that want to run off in
+
+01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:28.260
+their own damn direction and then handing
+
+01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:31.880
+them an org is the 1 that people keep bugging
+
+01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:33.940
+us about. So if you're looking for a project,
+
+01:03:37.340 --> 01:03:37.840
+here it is. Just really well done.
+
+01:03:43.540 --> 01:03:43.980
+I no longer feel like we wasted a lot of time
+
+01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:46.680
+there. I mean, you remember I enjoyed so much
+
+01:03:48.600 --> 01:03:49.100
+all of our check ins and all of that stuff.
+
+01:03:51.420 --> 01:03:51.920
+But we had so many ideas,
+
+01:03:53.480 --> 01:03:53.980
+you can imagine that I wondered,
+
+01:03:56.980 --> 01:03:57.160
+you know, I wondered if we should have had
+
+01:03:58.520 --> 01:03:58.700
+more focused meetings and all that.
+
+01:04:01.100 --> 01:04:01.360
+And I was glad when we stopped having like
+
+01:04:04.240 --> 01:04:04.540
+weekly meetings, because you know what I mean
+
+01:04:06.980 --> 01:04:07.120
+To keep this much power in the room once a
+
+01:04:08.160 --> 01:04:08.660
+week, it feels creepy.
+
+01:04:10.560 --> 01:04:11.060
+This much intellectual power.
+
+01:04:18.525 --> 01:04:18.820
+Anyway, that's it. I think that's it for me.
+
+01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:19.760
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, and I'll say, I mean,
+
+01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:22.540
+I can't obviously speak for Sash or anyone
+
+01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:24.940
+else. Yeah, the regular meetings were a
+
+01:04:26.980 --> 01:04:27.180
+little bit intense than we had the year
+
+01:04:29.540 --> 01:04:29.680
+before, but I'm kind of also super glad that
+
+01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:32.040
+we did do them. And, you know,
+
+01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:34.960
+in a way, it did help us sort of connect and
+
+01:04:38.180 --> 01:04:38.360
+get to know each other much more regularly or
+
+01:04:41.200 --> 01:04:41.440
+much more which is great and I see thumbs up
+
+01:04:44.900 --> 01:04:45.060
+from Leo and Corwin so yeah happy we did
+
+01:04:49.080 --> 01:04:49.280
+them. Might want to have some kind of
+
+01:04:51.820 --> 01:04:52.040
+actually irregular ones every once in a while
+
+01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:53.860
+if we have to decide on something.
+
+01:04:55.240 --> 01:04:55.520
+But if like this year,
+
+01:04:57.400 --> 01:04:57.600
+everything can be worked out pretty much ad
+
+01:04:58.780 --> 01:04:59.020
+hoc, whenever needs be,
+
+01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:00.980
+like over asynchronous communications.
+
+01:05:03.640 --> 01:05:04.140
+I see Sasha nodding very excitedly.
+
+01:05:07.820 --> 01:05:08.320
+This also works. So yeah.
+
+01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:11.420
+And I also see some questions coming in here
+
+01:05:14.580 --> 01:05:15.040
+in BBB. If other folks want to join,
+
+01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:16.780
+please feel free to do that as well.
+
+01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:19.300
+Yeah, I don't think we have an issue tracker
+
+01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:22.860
+right now, but our whole website is a wiki.
+
+01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:25.280
+So if you wanna like create a new page or
+
+01:05:26.180 --> 01:05:26.480
+there might be a page,
+
+01:05:28.640 --> 01:05:28.780
+I don't know. You can of course go in and
+
+01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:30.260
+edit it to your heart's content.
+
+01:05:36.540 --> 01:05:37.040
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Hilarious, I couldn't,
+
+01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:39.600
+like I almost managed to type that as fast as
+
+01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:41.260
+you could say it, you know.
+
+01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:43.940
+That's fine. I get the same answer in the
+
+01:05:46.620 --> 01:05:46.800
+chat. Yep. Our website's a wiki and we
+
+01:05:48.060 --> 01:05:48.260
+definitely use ideas here.
+
+01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:50.540
+If you want to implement them or you know
+
+01:05:53.100 --> 01:05:53.440
+document them enough that even Corwin can
+
+01:05:55.240 --> 01:05:55.740
+code it then you know I'll do that.
+
+01:05:58.220 --> 01:05:58.380
+[Speaker 0]: Also I'll go through all the etherpads at
+
+01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:00.480
+some point to harvest them and I think I have
+
+01:06:02.240 --> 01:06:02.480
+yeah I have an Emacs list function that does
+
+01:06:05.020 --> 01:06:05.280
+this for me. So that I can go through that
+
+01:06:06.820 --> 01:06:07.280
+thing and include that in our organizers
+
+01:06:09.060 --> 01:06:09.280
+notebooks, lessons learned and ideas for next
+
+01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:09.780
+year.
+
+01:06:11.120 --> 01:06:11.620
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah.
+
+01:06:15.010 --> 01:06:15.060
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, because something that you know,
+
+01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:16.720
+We were talking about the different models
+
+01:06:18.680 --> 01:06:18.840
+between having many, many meetings and how it
+
+01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:20.760
+paid off eventually. The thing is,
+
+01:06:22.160 --> 01:06:22.660
+this year we had no meetings.
+
+01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:27.660
+We met Friday morning on Mumble and we were
+
+01:06:29.540 --> 01:06:29.720
+ready to go. We did chat things up a little
+
+01:06:30.180 --> 01:06:30.660
+bit on ISE, obviously,
+
+01:06:31.780 --> 01:06:32.120
+but no meeting this year.
+
+01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:33.640
+So I'm tempted to say that,
+
+01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:35.080
+yes, we could have off-hand meetings,
+
+01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:36.480
+but I think it's mostly because we want to
+
+01:06:38.240 --> 01:06:38.680
+see 1 another, not because we need
+
+01:06:40.680 --> 01:06:41.160
+necessarily for those meetings to prepare
+
+01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:45.660
+Emacs cons. But what I wanted to say as well
+
+01:06:49.740 --> 01:06:50.200
+is that I think it's a testament to the bets
+
+01:06:52.940 --> 01:06:53.140
+that Sasha took last year to automatize a lot
+
+01:06:54.520 --> 01:06:54.720
+of things. I mean, we'd already been
+
+01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:56.120
+automatizing a lot of stuff,
+
+01:06:58.260 --> 01:06:58.760
+like writing scripts for every single thing
+
+01:07:02.220 --> 01:07:02.600
+in ESPire, but last year we made a big bet to
+
+01:07:04.600 --> 01:07:04.920
+say, what if we had OBS in the cloud?
+
+01:07:06.580 --> 01:07:06.760
+What if we had a streaming platform that was
+
+01:07:08.680 --> 01:07:08.860
+running on a machine? And this is what
+
+01:07:11.660 --> 01:07:12.100
+allowed us to very smoothly have 2 tracks,
+
+01:07:13.380 --> 01:07:13.880
+the general track and the dev track.
+
+01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:16.980
+And I think the beauty of this system is
+
+01:07:19.680 --> 01:07:19.840
+that, obviously, because we get more and more
+
+01:07:20.720 --> 01:07:21.220
+speakers submitting talks,
+
+01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:23.100
+we are starting to think maybe we actually
+
+01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:26.740
+need a third track or something and no 1 is
+
+01:07:28.580 --> 01:07:29.080
+stressed in the room when Sasha says this.
+
+01:07:31.100 --> 01:07:31.360
+You know, there's not the reaction that's
+
+01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:32.540
+like, oh no it's gonna be tough,
+
+01:07:33.200 --> 01:07:33.620
+we're gonna need more hosts,
+
+01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:34.980
+organizers, it's just a calm...
+
+01:07:37.580 --> 01:07:38.040
+[Speaker 3]: Now, point of order, Now Flowy is stressed
+
+01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:39.500
+when Sasha says this.
+
+01:07:44.640 --> 01:07:45.060
+[Speaker 4]: That was just a-
+
+01:07:46.640 --> 01:07:46.800
+[Speaker 0]: I didn't know, Colin, we could put you in the
+
+01:07:47.720 --> 01:07:47.880
+spot next year. You'd be like,
+
+01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:49.400
+you know, hey, Colin, what do you feel about
+
+01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:49.900
+hosting?
+
+01:07:53.300 --> 01:07:53.800
+[Speaker 3]: You know, I'm happy to do it.
+
+01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:57.260
+And I feel, I mean, just to jump in there and
+
+01:07:59.540 --> 01:08:00.040
+say, yes, exactly. No,
+
+01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:01.560
+there's no concern on the part of the
+
+01:08:03.220 --> 01:08:03.720
+organizer committee that we could expand
+
+01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:06.180
+this. If you said we needed to expand to 4
+
+01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:08.900
+tracks, I think we would gulp and consider
+
+01:08:10.080 --> 01:08:10.360
+it, you know, from there,
+
+01:08:11.040 --> 01:08:11.540
+it gets a little crazy,
+
+01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:14.260
+but strictly because there aren't that many
+
+01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:16.899
+people that we know want to commit.
+
+01:08:18.120 --> 01:08:18.399
+What did we see there?
+
+01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:20.939
+80 hours of potential work that,
+
+01:08:23.000 --> 01:08:23.200
+you know, that could go into organizing next
+
+01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:25.580
+year's conference if you find that it's a
+
+01:08:26.979 --> 01:08:27.399
+rabbit hole for you and being a streamer
+
+01:08:28.979 --> 01:08:29.140
+means you want to read every email and
+
+01:08:31.500 --> 01:08:31.819
+respond to every, as Sasha has done this last
+
+01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:34.819
+year, right? So when I look at her numbers
+
+01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:35.859
+for total participation,
+
+01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:38.500
+that's really a high watermark.
+
+01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:43.939
+Sasha really took care of this convention,
+
+01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:47.180
+you know, like a producer might.
+
+01:08:52.240 --> 01:08:52.660
+And the fact that what used to take 200 hours
+
+01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:56.260
+before, I mean, I can't harp enough on the
+
+01:08:57.720 --> 01:08:57.979
+story that that's telling you,
+
+01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:00.800
+right? And as I think about it with a project
+
+01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:02.080
+manager hat on, right?
+
+01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:03.160
+I'm saying, okay, well,
+
+01:09:07.080 --> 01:09:07.580
+that's, you know, that work can potentially
+
+01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:09.960
+be amplified to many thousands of hours of
+
+01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:11.920
+work, considering the automation and the
+
+01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:13.439
+potential for bringing people in.
+
+01:09:14.540 --> 01:09:14.800
+So if you thought about it as a money-making
+
+01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:16.520
+thing, If we were trying to make money by
+
+01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:17.460
+having these conventions,
+
+01:09:19.040 --> 01:09:19.540
+you would think we have a very profitable
+
+01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:24.000
+business here because we can amplify the
+
+01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:25.939
+talent that walks in the door really
+
+01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:28.640
+effectively, if that makes sense,
+
+01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:30.300
+through the tools and the training.
+
+01:09:33.800 --> 01:09:33.960
+[Speaker 0]: So we should clarify that if anyone wants to
+
+01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:36.180
+volunteer as a host or just check in,
+
+01:09:38.300 --> 01:09:38.380
+let's just talk host. It's really just a
+
+01:09:40.080 --> 01:09:40.580
+matter of showing up, making sure your BVB
+
+01:09:42.160 --> 01:09:42.439
+works so you can talk.
+
+01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:43.620
+If you want to share your webcam,
+
+01:09:44.899 --> 01:09:45.040
+you can. You can skip it if you don't want
+
+01:09:46.359 --> 01:09:46.859
+to. You can share the screen with the pad.
+
+01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:48.800
+And then you just sit there and you chat with
+
+01:09:51.260 --> 01:09:51.399
+a speaker and you read the questions off the
+
+01:09:53.240 --> 01:09:53.399
+pad in case they don't read the questions off
+
+01:09:56.740 --> 01:09:57.240
+themselves. So it can be a very low effort,
+
+01:09:59.440 --> 01:09:59.940
+low stress way to get into it and just there
+
+01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:03.000
+kind of helping the speaker have somebody to
+
+01:10:05.540 --> 01:10:05.820
+talk to. It doesn't have to take 80 hours.
+
+01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:08.720
+It can take 2 hours and that's cool.
+
+01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:10.840
+[Speaker 3]: And the same, and that's just like the
+
+01:10:11.820 --> 01:10:12.040
+transcription task. Yeah,
+
+01:10:13.700 --> 01:10:13.980
+sorry, I probably missed the lead there,
+
+01:10:16.080 --> 01:10:16.360
+right? Every individual part of this is
+
+01:10:19.160 --> 01:10:19.660
+really easy. So it's an open-ended commitment
+
+01:10:22.360 --> 01:10:22.860
+to come and kind of meet a part of the
+
+01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:25.340
+committee, a part of the community,
+
+01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:27.540
+right? To come in and say,
+
+01:10:29.440 --> 01:10:29.940
+maybe you're really excited about org,
+
+01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:33.600
+you could review talks and just review the
+
+01:10:35.420 --> 01:10:35.660
+org ones. There's not an obligation that says
+
+01:10:37.440 --> 01:10:37.800
+you're going to look at every talk that's
+
+01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:40.640
+submitted, right? Share your thoughts on the
+
+01:10:42.500 --> 01:10:42.660
+talks that you have a chance to review the
+
+01:10:44.440 --> 01:10:44.900
+proposals. That's the submissions review
+
+01:10:48.040 --> 01:10:48.540
+part, right? So there's a way to help with
+
+01:10:51.820 --> 01:10:52.120
+almost any appetite for I'd like a little
+
+01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:54.780
+extra work in the Emacs department here like
+
+01:10:56.480 --> 01:10:56.640
+if you want to feel like you're part of the
+
+01:10:59.600 --> 01:10:59.800
+team this this team is really easy to get
+
+01:11:02.440 --> 01:11:02.710
+[Speaker 7]: think that's
+
+01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:03.840
+[Speaker 3]: involved with. I I mean,
+
+01:11:04.280 --> 01:11:04.440
+please. Go ahead,
+
+01:11:06.820 --> 01:11:07.320
+[Speaker 4]: No, no, please. I've talked enough.
+
+01:11:08.940 --> 01:11:09.100
+[Speaker 1]: sort of the... Leo. Well,
+
+01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:10.660
+I don't get tired of hearing you talk,
+
+01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:13.500
+but yeah, I was going to say,
+
+01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:17.320
+Yeah, I feel like that's the general message
+
+01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:19.920
+here is that we're all just a bunch of people
+
+01:11:21.360 --> 01:11:21.860
+who are interested in this.
+
+01:11:24.060 --> 01:11:24.560
+And of course, being humans,
+
+01:11:26.120 --> 01:11:26.280
+each of us have different kinds of lives and
+
+01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:27.720
+different kinds of availabilities and
+
+01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:28.760
+different kinds of interests.
+
+01:11:29.860 --> 01:11:30.360
+And there is something for everybody,
+
+01:11:34.300 --> 01:11:34.540
+both in terms of the kinds of tasks that you
+
+01:11:37.480 --> 01:11:37.760
+need doing, but also in terms of the amount
+
+01:11:39.980 --> 01:11:40.480
+of time that you want or are able to put in.
+
+01:11:43.780 --> 01:11:44.080
+So yes, if you do think this is something
+
+01:11:46.240 --> 01:11:46.700
+that you might be interested in helping with
+
+01:11:47.980 --> 01:11:48.400
+for future additions and such,
+
+01:11:51.140 --> 01:11:51.340
+or even some of the post-conference work that
+
+01:11:52.300 --> 01:11:52.800
+needs doing after this year.
+
+01:11:55.800 --> 01:11:55.960
+Please reach out there's something for
+
+01:11:57.440 --> 01:11:57.940
+everybody and I would love to have
+
+01:12:03.020 --> 01:12:03.360
+[Speaker 6]: you. I can confirm there was an easy access
+
+01:12:06.260 --> 01:12:06.500
+so I came here last year just doing some
+
+01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:09.100
+checking in and the process of getting,
+
+01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:11.120
+it's called a trained in was really,
+
+01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:12.620
+really short. There was a lot of
+
+01:12:13.700 --> 01:12:14.200
+documentation how to do something.
+
+01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:17.920
+I mean, there's a pad that gets sent and what
+
+01:12:20.540 --> 01:12:20.660
+to do, when to do, and what to ask is like
+
+01:12:22.160 --> 01:12:22.660
+really incredible. So thank you for that.
+
+01:12:26.320 --> 01:12:26.820
+Just come here, write an email,
+
+01:12:28.860 --> 01:12:29.200
+join us. It's really, really cool.
+
+01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:31.420
+And it's a great experience to be honest.
+
+01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:35.900
+[Speaker 4]: Thank you. And while Sasha is speaking about
+
+01:12:36.820 --> 01:12:37.280
+the update of the wiki,
+
+01:12:38.320 --> 01:12:38.820
+oh Coleman did you want to say something?
+
+01:12:41.140 --> 01:12:41.600
+[Speaker 3]: No I was just I was just gonna embarrass
+
+01:12:44.240 --> 01:12:44.740
+Floey Coder further but you go ahead.
+
+01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:51.200
+I was just gonna say I think you're pretty
+
+01:12:52.420 --> 01:12:52.900
+quick, you're pretty quick,
+
+01:12:55.320 --> 01:12:55.820
+you took to it really quickly or you show
+
+01:12:57.240 --> 01:12:57.740
+just kind of a reflexive calm.
+
+01:12:59.340 --> 01:12:59.720
+Like you know how to not talk over people.
+
+01:13:01.200 --> 01:13:01.700
+You're already better at it than I am.
+
+01:13:06.500 --> 01:13:07.000
+Now, you know, I think,
+
+01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:09.280
+yeah, I hope you're enjoying the new stuff
+
+01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:10.720
+that you're starting to take on because you
+
+01:13:12.040 --> 01:13:12.540
+seem to be doing great with it.
+
+01:13:14.220 --> 01:13:14.500
+And yeah, I hope you're not sitting there
+
+01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:16.080
+thinking that you're taking,
+
+01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:18.340
+you know, that you're coming on,
+
+01:13:19.700 --> 01:13:19.920
+that you're not taking on enough
+
+01:13:21.420 --> 01:13:21.680
+responsibility or anything like that,
+
+01:13:23.100 --> 01:13:23.600
+or I don't know, maybe.
+
+01:13:26.040 --> 01:13:26.240
+I picked up like a little undercurrent of
+
+01:13:28.100 --> 01:13:28.380
+like, I don't do that much,
+
+01:13:31.440 --> 01:13:31.940
+and I hope you don't feel that way because I
+
+01:13:33.719 --> 01:13:34.219
+just enjoyed really having your help the last
+
+01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:39.180
+couple of years. Thank you very much.
+
+01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:47.720
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, that's how they get you,
+
+01:13:48.560 --> 01:13:48.680
+you know, they just tell you,
+
+01:13:49.340 --> 01:13:49.840
+oh, could you do check-ins?
+
+01:13:51.820 --> 01:13:52.180
+Like I showed up for 4 years ago saying,
+
+01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:55.080
+oh, I'd like to help and look at me now.
+
+01:13:56.780 --> 01:13:57.040
+I think I did I host on the first year?
+
+01:13:57.800 --> 01:13:58.300
+I'm pretty sure I did.
+
+01:14:00.020 --> 01:14:00.420
+Like it took 2 months basically of onboarding
+
+01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:03.160
+to convince me to do some of the hosting and
+
+01:14:06.820 --> 01:14:07.000
+back then oh it was so tough for us to do the
+
+01:14:08.440 --> 01:14:08.680
+hosting because we didn't have all the fancy
+
+01:14:10.320 --> 01:14:10.680
+setup we have this year and we were
+
+01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:14.180
+struggling with OBS with bid rates with
+
+01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:18.340
+sharing scenes I'm glad we are where we are
+
+01:14:20.460 --> 01:14:20.760
+today, where I don't have to worry as much
+
+01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:22.120
+about this. But it's also nice,
+
+01:14:24.440 --> 01:14:24.580
+it's also 1 thing, we do have a culture of
+
+01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:26.260
+documentation as Sasha exemplified,
+
+01:14:28.140 --> 01:14:28.640
+and like Flo mentioned,
+
+01:14:29.540 --> 01:14:29.820
+documentation on the roles.
+
+01:14:33.060 --> 01:14:33.560
+Yes, We did do this to help people join us.
+
+01:14:39.360 --> 01:14:39.840
+But really, I'm the host of General,
+
+01:14:41.660 --> 01:14:41.840
+but it could be just anyone else because we
+
+01:14:43.780 --> 01:14:44.020
+have so much documentation on how to do
+
+01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:46.780
+things. Obviously, when a co-organizer is
+
+01:14:48.740 --> 01:14:48.900
+doing a role, we tend to have an eye on how
+
+01:14:49.740 --> 01:14:50.160
+the infrastructure is going.
+
+01:14:51.820 --> 01:14:52.320
+But really, if you want to join us,
+
+01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:54.940
+we will make sure that the jobs that you
+
+01:14:57.240 --> 01:14:57.500
+have, first, you like them and it's something
+
+01:14:59.440 --> 01:14:59.640
+that interests you, and we will also make
+
+01:15:04.180 --> 01:15:04.400
+sure that on our end, everything goes well
+
+01:15:06.140 --> 01:15:06.640
+for you. Like we'll be monitoring the streams
+
+01:15:08.540 --> 01:15:09.040
+and every time we have a new person join us,
+
+01:15:13.500 --> 01:15:14.000
+it is as much energy and mental availability
+
+01:15:17.780 --> 01:15:18.220
+to invest into, oh, maybe we could do this.
+
+01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:19.940
+Oh, 0, we have a fire going out because the
+
+01:15:21.320 --> 01:15:21.820
+speaker hasn't checked in yet.
+
+01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:24.560
+So it's all about sharing expertise,
+
+01:15:27.180 --> 01:15:27.260
+it's all about making people level up in
+
+01:15:28.520 --> 01:15:29.020
+terms of skills that are really useful.
+
+01:15:34.120 --> 01:15:34.280
+I will attribute a lot of my success in
+
+01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:36.120
+public speaking to the work I do with
+
+01:15:38.620 --> 01:15:39.120
+EmacsConf, and I'm sure plenty of people
+
+01:15:43.420 --> 01:15:43.620
+would gain from joining us and learning these
+
+01:15:47.440 --> 01:15:47.940
+skills. All right, It's about 30 minutes past
+
+01:15:49.740 --> 01:15:49.920
+the official time. Do we want to go a little
+
+01:15:51.180 --> 01:15:51.680
+longer? Are we still available to go?
+
+01:15:55.180 --> 01:15:55.680
+All right, well, let's keep going.
+
+01:16:00.443 --> 01:16:00.486
+I don't see any more people joining us on the
+
+01:16:00.660 --> 01:16:00.703
+[Speaker 1]: We have Bob,
+
+01:16:01.240 --> 01:16:01.720
+[Speaker 4]: Blue Button. who was 1 of the speakers today
+
+01:16:03.940 --> 01:16:04.200
+in the room. Bob, do you want to maybe unmute
+
+01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:05.900
+yourself and ask us some questions?
+
+01:16:08.420 --> 01:16:08.720
+Or just thank us. I mean,
+
+01:16:09.480 --> 01:16:09.840
+I'm just begging for something.
+
+01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:11.420
+But I know you've been very helpful.
+
+01:16:15.340 --> 01:16:15.720
+[Speaker 5]: Yes. How are you? No, I've really had fun.
+
+01:16:18.340 --> 01:16:18.600
+No, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted for you,
+
+01:16:22.800 --> 01:16:23.300
+I think. So I learned something.
+
+01:16:25.040 --> 01:16:25.460
+Everybody wants to record their videos,
+
+01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:26.940
+which of course, is great,
+
+01:16:28.380 --> 01:16:28.480
+and then you have the subtitles and
+
+01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:32.040
+everything. But I saved a lot of time by
+
+01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:35.740
+doing it live this year and not going in and
+
+01:16:38.040 --> 01:16:38.200
+tweaking and doing all the editing and
+
+01:16:39.440 --> 01:16:39.860
+spending all the time that we do.
+
+01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:42.720
+And it was kind of fun to do it that way too.
+
+01:16:44.900 --> 01:16:45.400
+So just a little note there.
+
+01:16:48.340 --> 01:16:48.640
+But I look forward to seeing 1 of my talks
+
+01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:53.940
+subtitled someday. So no,
+
+01:16:55.240 --> 01:16:55.740
+I love what you do. It's fun.
+
+01:16:57.660 --> 01:16:57.900
+I've only seen part of Sasha's talk,
+
+01:17:00.660 --> 01:17:01.000
+so I'll go and review that about how you're
+
+01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:04.340
+automating all this. You know,
+
+01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:06.680
+it's a little sad for me personally that of
+
+01:17:09.080 --> 01:17:09.580
+course, Org gets all the attention,
+
+01:17:14.060 --> 01:17:14.340
+but you know, we're exposing hyperbole more
+
+01:17:16.820 --> 01:17:17.240
+now and There's definitely a growing interest
+
+01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:19.020
+on Reddit and you know,
+
+01:17:20.140 --> 01:17:20.640
+I think it's kind of like EmacsConf.
+
+01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:23.900
+Give it a few years. We went away for a long
+
+01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:25.340
+time and then we came back.
+
+01:17:30.420 --> 01:17:30.880
+We'll start to see it permeate the Emacs
+
+01:17:33.160 --> 01:17:33.660
+first. But I was thinking that,
+
+01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:36.960
+you know, I think people who like Emacs and
+
+01:17:38.340 --> 01:17:38.840
+stuff, they read things online,
+
+01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:41.420
+they come to this conference,
+
+01:17:43.620 --> 01:17:43.940
+but we're always hearing about,
+
+01:17:44.620 --> 01:17:45.120
+well, the next generation.
+
+01:17:47.260 --> 01:17:47.500
+We have to deal with that.
+
+01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:50.160
+And I think a lot of people get exposed to
+
+01:17:52.900 --> 01:17:53.120
+Emacs in college. Now a professor turns them
+
+01:17:55.080 --> 01:17:55.460
+on to it and makes them use it,
+
+01:17:57.100 --> 01:17:57.600
+and then they go out into the real world,
+
+01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:00.220
+and there's no encouragement anymore,
+
+01:18:01.460 --> 01:18:01.960
+and they just drop it.
+
+01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:05.980
+And with all of what you're putting together
+
+01:18:09.280 --> 01:18:09.720
+here, it seems like if there was some reach
+
+01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:14.620
+out to universities and college students,
+
+01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:19.100
+You know, we might get a whole new big crowd
+
+01:18:22.360 --> 01:18:22.580
+of people coming in. You know,
+
+01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:25.320
+just as I think OREG has really attracted a
+
+01:18:26.840 --> 01:18:27.340
+lot of people in the sciences,
+
+01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:30.440
+since that's what it was originally developed
+
+01:18:32.500 --> 01:18:32.860
+for. So just a thought,
+
+01:18:35.740 --> 01:18:35.900
+you know, maybe if you get any volunteers who
+
+01:18:38.440 --> 01:18:38.940
+can help in the reach out or just,
+
+01:18:40.320 --> 01:18:40.560
+you know, sending things around to
+
+01:18:43.780 --> 01:18:44.020
+universities that might really extend who
+
+01:18:45.060 --> 01:18:45.560
+gets exposed to this stuff.
+
+01:18:49.240 --> 01:18:49.480
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's a great and very
+
+01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:52.020
+interesting idea. And it sort of touches on a
+
+01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:53.000
+couple of different things.
+
+01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:54.140
+Sort of like you mentioned,
+
+01:18:56.180 --> 01:18:56.400
+well, with org, it sort of really drew into
+
+01:19:00.060 --> 01:19:00.560
+sciences, folks. It would be interesting to
+
+01:19:03.280 --> 01:19:03.780
+see other parts of Emacs doing that for other
+
+01:19:05.740 --> 01:19:06.240
+kinds of communities, but also specifically,
+
+01:19:08.920 --> 01:19:09.420
+I guess, for colleges and universities.
+
+01:19:14.220 --> 01:19:14.680
+Yeah, it would be cool if we had local groups
+
+01:19:17.140 --> 01:19:17.300
+or local meetups, because so far right now,
+
+01:19:20.140 --> 01:19:20.420
+I think the most common ones are like by city
+
+01:19:22.280 --> 01:19:22.440
+like for example a Toronto Emacs meetup or
+
+01:19:25.320 --> 01:19:25.760
+something like that yeah if you could maybe
+
+01:19:28.820 --> 01:19:29.320
+encourage or help foster a university level
+
+01:19:32.200 --> 01:19:32.520
+type of thing you know University of blah
+
+01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:35.860
+blah Emacs group or something like that and
+
+01:19:39.860 --> 01:19:40.080
+you know seeing what their needs would be or
+
+01:19:42.860 --> 01:19:43.360
+trying to think also what features of Emacs
+
+01:19:46.260 --> 01:19:46.560
+would be very useful in an academic slash
+
+01:19:48.680 --> 01:19:48.920
+educational setting. Yeah,
+
+01:19:50.460 --> 01:19:50.840
+lots of food for thought there.
+
+01:19:52.120 --> 01:19:52.620
+So thank you for mentioning this.
+
+01:20:02.420 --> 01:20:02.920
+[Speaker 5]: Sure. And I guess, yeah,
+
+01:20:04.400 --> 01:20:04.900
+OBS is coming up here.
+
+01:20:06.820 --> 01:20:07.040
+I worked with that a bit,
+
+01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:09.240
+yes, last year. You know,
+
+01:20:12.040 --> 01:20:12.540
+another powerful piece of software with a
+
+01:20:15.240 --> 01:20:15.740
+sort of, I think, a weak user interface,
+
+01:20:20.080 --> 01:20:20.540
+you know, for the newbies coming along on it.
+
+01:20:23.200 --> 01:20:23.700
+And maybe, you know, if there's,
+
+01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:26.420
+if that's kind of what people use,
+
+01:20:29.540 --> 01:20:29.700
+figuring out or putting some information in
+
+01:20:32.740 --> 01:20:33.240
+the wiki about how to do that,
+
+01:20:34.900 --> 01:20:35.400
+you know, work with it or...
+
+01:20:36.300 --> 01:20:36.800
+[Speaker 4]: Oh, good idea.
+
+01:20:43.140 --> 01:20:43.340
+[Speaker 3]: I can comment. It is definitely the
+
+01:20:46.420 --> 01:20:46.920
+preeminent streamer software out there,
+
+01:20:49.120 --> 01:20:49.620
+well beyond the free software community.
+
+01:20:54.120 --> 01:20:54.500
+It's used by most streamers on Twitch and
+
+01:20:59.680 --> 01:20:59.960
+other like commercial for-profit things but
+
+01:21:01.780 --> 01:21:02.220
+of course those companies are making money
+
+01:21:04.480 --> 01:21:04.700
+off people trying to give money to the
+
+01:21:07.200 --> 01:21:07.440
+streamers. Those streamers aren't getting any
+
+01:21:10.160 --> 01:21:10.660
+software help. So actually most of them are
+
+01:21:13.900 --> 01:21:14.400
+dependent for their income on free software
+
+01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:18.900
+like OBS and OBS in specific or by some kind
+
+01:21:23.100 --> 01:21:23.600
+of forked brand name is the primary tool.
+
+01:21:28.660 --> 01:21:28.820
+[Speaker 4]: If I'm not mistaken I believe Stefan has
+
+01:21:29.860 --> 01:21:30.360
+joined us right now in the room.
+
+01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:33.420
+I'm putting you on the spot,
+
+01:21:34.480 --> 01:21:34.760
+if you want to stay muted you can.
+
+01:21:35.640 --> 01:21:36.140
+Oh, you have unmuted yourself.
+
+01:21:38.400 --> 01:21:38.900
+[Speaker 7]: I managed to click the unmute button.
+
+01:21:41.180 --> 01:21:41.680
+Yes, I'm here. How are you guys doing?
+
+01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:44.200
+[Speaker 4]: Doing good, surviving here.
+
+01:21:44.200 --> 01:21:44.700
+[Speaker 1]: Congratulations.
+
+01:21:45.480 --> 01:21:45.980
+[Speaker 4]: Late in your time.
+
+01:21:50.040 --> 01:21:50.220
+[Speaker 7]: Really amazing work organizing the
+
+01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:52.460
+conference. I really have to congratulate
+
+01:21:56.120 --> 01:21:56.480
+everyone. So I just hopped on here to sort of
+
+01:21:58.140 --> 01:21:58.640
+say that I'm extremely impressed.
+
+01:22:04.240 --> 01:22:04.540
+And I think this is an example to follow for
+
+01:22:07.040 --> 01:22:07.440
+other conferences and for Emacs in general.
+
+01:22:09.400 --> 01:22:09.900
+I think we need more of this community-type
+
+01:22:12.940 --> 01:22:13.380
+organizing and just getting people interested
+
+01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:16.240
+and involved on all kinds of levels can only
+
+01:22:20.200 --> 01:22:20.340
+help Emacs. Because we are in this for the
+
+01:22:22.540 --> 01:22:23.040
+long haul. That's it.
+
+01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:25.780
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, what a great point.
+
+01:22:28.500 --> 01:22:28.740
+If I can comment, that's 1 of the things that
+
+01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:31.020
+drew me to trying to contribute to free
+
+01:22:32.580 --> 01:22:32.960
+software when I was a kid,
+
+01:22:35.580 --> 01:22:36.080
+like we're talking now 30 plus years ago,
+
+01:22:38.360 --> 01:22:38.860
+the idea like, and I recognized it from
+
+01:22:42.180 --> 01:22:42.620
+Stallman's initial manifestos on the topic,
+
+01:22:45.060 --> 01:22:45.360
+right? He was clearly in this for the long
+
+01:22:47.040 --> 01:22:47.540
+haul. Like I am building the library of
+
+01:22:50.500 --> 01:22:50.740
+Alexandria here and like linking the work
+
+01:22:52.420 --> 01:22:52.580
+that we're trying to do to community that I
+
+01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:54.900
+don't know how you could touch my heart you
+
+01:22:57.620 --> 01:22:57.840
+know more surely because that's that's
+
+01:22:59.440 --> 01:22:59.940
+exactly what we want to do not necessarily
+
+01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:04.300
+any given talk or comment but the idea that
+
+01:23:07.960 --> 01:23:08.460
+we have to get together and share our ideas
+
+01:23:10.900 --> 01:23:11.400
+and the place that we do that has to be just
+
+01:23:14.380 --> 01:23:14.880
+has to be a buffet and not a crucible.
+
+01:23:17.620 --> 01:23:17.800
+[Speaker 7]: And look, we're standing on the shoulders of
+
+01:23:19.400 --> 01:23:19.840
+giants, really, when we're looking at Emacs
+
+01:23:21.100 --> 01:23:21.600
+and sort of what we have achieved.
+
+01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:24.840
+And the galaxy of talent that exists in the
+
+01:23:27.040 --> 01:23:27.540
+Emacs community is also like truly
+
+01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:31.300
+impressive, I think. So There's a lot of work
+
+01:23:34.280 --> 01:23:34.780
+to be done, but we've also achieved some
+
+01:23:37.120 --> 01:23:37.480
+pretty impressive things so far.
+
+01:23:38.620 --> 01:23:39.120
+So let's just keep at it.
+
+01:23:43.200 --> 01:23:43.700
+I'm sure we'll have a fantastic future for
+
+01:23:44.180 --> 01:23:44.680
+Emacs.
+
+01:23:52.540 --> 01:23:53.040
+[Speaker 5]: You know, I'm kind of interested in what
+
+01:23:56.540 --> 01:23:57.040
+Stefan's here. You know,
+
+01:24:00.400 --> 01:24:00.900
+just the common tropes that go around.
+
+01:24:05.320 --> 01:24:05.740
+I just hear it so much on the net,
+
+01:24:07.540 --> 01:24:08.040
+you know, is Emacs still alive?
+
+01:24:09.960 --> 01:24:10.460
+Do people still use it?
+
+01:24:11.120 --> 01:24:11.480
+You know, and of course,
+
+01:24:13.620 --> 01:24:14.100
+it's like you have an older piece of software
+
+01:24:15.200 --> 01:24:15.700
+that started so long ago,
+
+01:24:17.540 --> 01:24:17.720
+people don't realize that it's still up,
+
+01:24:20.320 --> 01:24:20.820
+but it's also because of the trends,
+
+01:24:22.900 --> 01:24:23.400
+right? You know, we've got the electron-based
+
+01:24:28.580 --> 01:24:28.740
+development and Visual Studio is slick out of
+
+01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:33.220
+the box. So what's in the core Emacs
+
+01:24:36.260 --> 01:24:36.540
+developers realm, obviously you guys are
+
+01:24:38.160 --> 01:24:38.660
+taking this longer term perspective,
+
+01:24:44.060 --> 01:24:44.380
+which makes sense, but what do you think
+
+01:24:48.480 --> 01:24:48.980
+about this issue, the shorter term and how to
+
+01:24:52.200 --> 01:24:52.540
+alleviate those concerns that some people
+
+01:24:52.540 --> 01:24:53.040
+represent?
+
+01:24:54.820 --> 01:24:55.040
+[Speaker 7]: Of course, yes. I mean,
+
+01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:56.160
+this is something that,
+
+01:24:59.340 --> 01:24:59.600
+I mean, clearly people are discussing and as
+
+01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:01.800
+you say, It's almost like a trope at this
+
+01:25:04.200 --> 01:25:04.700
+point. And it's been discussed on EmacsDevil,
+
+01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:07.960
+what can we do to promote Emacs more and to
+
+01:25:10.240 --> 01:25:10.740
+what extent should we care about that?
+
+01:25:15.100 --> 01:25:15.600
+And I mean, my reply to that is usually just,
+
+01:25:19.120 --> 01:25:19.620
+the rumors of my death are very accurate.
+
+01:25:24.720 --> 01:25:25.220
+And I think this is true also for Emacs.
+
+01:25:29.240 --> 01:25:29.700
+So we are very much here.
+
+01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:32.460
+I think what has happened also is reflective
+
+01:25:34.960 --> 01:25:35.220
+of basically that there are just more
+
+01:25:36.580 --> 01:25:37.080
+programmers on the planet,
+
+01:25:38.040 --> 01:25:38.240
+[Speaker 3]: And we
+
+01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:40.420
+[Speaker 7]: right? haven't been able to sort of catch
+
+01:25:41.960 --> 01:25:42.460
+that segment as it's been growing,
+
+01:25:44.680 --> 01:25:45.060
+but also we have more Emacs users I think
+
+01:25:47.500 --> 01:25:47.860
+today than probably ever before.
+
+01:25:48.420 --> 01:25:48.920
+We have more packages,
+
+01:25:50.540 --> 01:25:51.040
+we have more stuff going on.
+
+01:25:55.580 --> 01:25:55.980
+So I think it's a challenge as well,
+
+01:25:58.200 --> 01:25:58.440
+like to what extent do we wanna be like a
+
+01:26:00.260 --> 01:26:00.420
+niche and to what extent do we wanna be the
+
+01:26:03.280 --> 01:26:03.780
+text editor for programmers.
+
+01:26:06.420 --> 01:26:06.720
+And I think there's a tension there because
+
+01:26:09.780 --> 01:26:09.960
+we want to stay true to what Emacs is and to
+
+01:26:12.440 --> 01:26:12.940
+its sort of core values of what makes Emacs
+
+01:26:16.720 --> 01:26:16.880
+great, but can we still make some changes to
+
+01:26:18.340 --> 01:26:18.760
+sort of stay relevant.
+
+01:26:21.060 --> 01:26:21.340
+And I think that's a huge win.
+
+01:26:24.800 --> 01:26:24.960
+And clearly these discussions are going on on
+
+01:26:26.980 --> 01:26:27.280
+the Emacs level and in the minds of core
+
+01:26:29.340 --> 01:26:29.640
+developers, I think, every day.
+
+01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:32.540
+Even though, I mean, most of our work is just
+
+01:26:35.320 --> 01:26:35.820
+trying to keep adding new features,
+
+01:26:38.220 --> 01:26:38.720
+make sure that we have that sort of core
+
+01:26:40.060 --> 01:26:40.400
+infrastructure in place,
+
+01:26:42.280 --> 01:26:42.500
+which is part of the reason why I gave the
+
+01:26:44.260 --> 01:26:44.680
+talk I did yesterday, to invite more people
+
+01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:46.960
+to come on board. Because I see a lot of
+
+01:26:48.200 --> 01:26:48.700
+people have opinions about Emacs,
+
+01:26:50.700 --> 01:26:51.200
+which is amazing, and we need more of that.
+
+01:26:54.160 --> 01:26:54.660
+But I think, let's say,
+
+01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:56.780
+patches speak louder than words.
+
+01:27:01.300 --> 01:27:01.780
+Software. And it's definitely true in Emacs
+
+01:27:01.780 --> 01:27:02.280
+development.
+
+01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:04.960
+[Speaker 3]: I want to just piggyback on,
+
+01:27:06.820 --> 01:27:06.940
+like attack the premise of the question a
+
+01:27:09.800 --> 01:27:09.960
+little bit, right? Remember that we are sort
+
+01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:12.380
+of in a trench warfare with commercial
+
+01:27:15.160 --> 01:27:15.660
+interests that are dependent on dominating
+
+01:27:20.660 --> 01:27:21.160
+software ecosystems in order to exploit users
+
+01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:24.760
+for money. Like that is a necessary thing to
+
+01:27:26.020 --> 01:27:26.420
+a lot of people's business model.
+
+01:27:30.060 --> 01:27:30.560
+And so we live in a world where software is
+
+01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:33.260
+more than tools. It is clothing.
+
+01:27:38.480 --> 01:27:38.840
+And so when I put on my Mac and I put on my
+
+01:27:42.860 --> 01:27:43.180
+UI skin, I'm not just choosing whether I like
+
+01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:46.960
+sliders or radio buttons or check boxes or
+
+01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:50.340
+the other UI mechanics that give that
+
+01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:54.160
+heuristic and make it make me think it's easy
+
+01:27:55.440 --> 01:27:55.940
+to use, easy to learn to use,
+
+01:27:59.160 --> 01:27:59.340
+right? I'm also choosing a whole line of
+
+01:28:02.080 --> 01:28:02.580
+implementation detail that I'm being actively
+
+01:28:06.040 --> 01:28:06.540
+trained not to try to understand by,
+
+01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:09.020
+you know, kind of the dark side of the force
+
+01:28:11.780 --> 01:28:12.100
+over here. So when I think about,
+
+01:28:14.380 --> 01:28:14.880
+you know, make Emacs more like Toaster,
+
+01:28:18.860 --> 01:28:19.060
+[Speaker 1]: you know,
+
+01:28:21.340 --> 01:28:21.560
+[Speaker 3]: I, 1 of my responses is every time that
+
+01:28:22.740 --> 01:28:22.960
+question asks, you know,
+
+01:28:24.160 --> 01:28:24.480
+an angel grows, gets asked,
+
+01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:25.720
+an angel grows its wings.
+
+01:28:27.040 --> 01:28:27.540
+A developer submits a patch,
+
+01:28:30.040 --> 01:28:30.240
+a bug gets opened that we can,
+
+01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:32.320
+you know, with enough information to actually
+
+01:28:33.240 --> 01:28:33.740
+do something about it,
+
+01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:35.280
+the ecosystem gets better,
+
+01:28:38.100 --> 01:28:38.600
+right? Whether a new user comes or not,
+
+01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:41.040
+like somebody's actually asking a question
+
+01:28:42.780 --> 01:28:42.900
+that's going to lead them someday to pick a
+
+01:28:43.260 --> 01:28:43.760
+better tool.
+
+01:28:47.620 --> 01:28:48.120
+[Speaker 7]: Yeah, it's true. I mean,
+
+01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:50.280
+we have powerful enemies and they are not
+
+01:28:52.540 --> 01:28:52.720
+working for us. And when they are working on
+
+01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:55.160
+improving VS code, you can't be under any
+
+01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:56.720
+illusion that they are doing that in the
+
+01:28:57.340 --> 01:28:57.660
+interest of the users.
+
+01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:00.060
+They're doing that in their interest of the
+
+01:29:02.620 --> 01:29:02.780
+corporate owners. So this is the reality that
+
+01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:04.900
+we have to face and Emacs is just not like
+
+01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:08.040
+that. And this is of course part of the
+
+01:29:09.960 --> 01:29:10.460
+reason why it's so important that we continue
+
+01:29:14.040 --> 01:29:14.260
+this work for the future of being able to do
+
+01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:17.800
+computing in a free way and in a way that is
+
+01:29:20.220 --> 01:29:20.380
+actually, you know, supports the types of
+
+01:29:21.740 --> 01:29:22.240
+workflows that we know and love.
+
+01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:26.920
+[Speaker 4]: Something that I'd like to add to this is
+
+01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:30.060
+that, you know, you've mentioned we need more
+
+01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:31.140
+programmers in the world.
+
+01:29:33.240 --> 01:29:33.340
+And in light of what we're doing with
+
+01:29:35.140 --> 01:29:35.220
+EmacsConf, perhaps we need more people to be
+
+01:29:36.580 --> 01:29:36.960
+at EmacsConf talking, not necessarily
+
+01:29:38.100 --> 01:29:38.600
+programmers, but just people apprehending
+
+01:29:40.520 --> 01:29:40.940
+Emacs and talking about it.
+
+01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:43.180
+It feels like we've got different missions
+
+01:29:44.440 --> 01:29:44.700
+that we're trying to accomplish with this.
+
+01:29:45.820 --> 01:29:46.320
+We are... Okay, you...
+
+01:29:47.780 --> 01:29:48.280
+Go ahead, Colin.
+
+01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:49.940
+[Speaker 3]: I can't leave that alone.
+
+01:29:52.120 --> 01:29:52.420
+I almost came in there on the previous point.
+
+01:29:55.020 --> 01:29:55.240
+Yeah, I actually Completely agree with that
+
+01:29:58.900 --> 01:29:59.140
+Leo. That's something that and I mean to be
+
+01:30:02.780 --> 01:30:03.240
+fair. I owe a good I owe dev al a good email
+
+01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:06.160
+on this topic, but we desperately need more
+
+01:30:07.840 --> 01:30:08.340
+project managers, more solutions architect,
+
+01:30:10.380 --> 01:30:10.880
+more business process analysts,
+
+01:30:12.660 --> 01:30:13.160
+more systems analysts,
+
+01:30:15.100 --> 01:30:15.560
+more, you know, and the best tech,
+
+01:30:17.900 --> 01:30:18.400
+you know, some of the best threads start with
+
+01:30:23.100 --> 01:30:23.420
+quite a bit of an analytical work done on the
+
+01:30:24.940 --> 01:30:25.440
+part of an engineer who's come along.
+
+01:30:29.320 --> 01:30:29.680
+But actually, Larry Wall has this quote,
+
+01:30:31.640 --> 01:30:32.140
+right? Where he says, consider 3 solutions
+
+01:30:34.120 --> 01:30:34.300
+and build 1. And I think we struggle with
+
+01:30:36.760 --> 01:30:37.260
+that as a community because getting a patch
+
+01:30:39.920 --> 01:30:40.120
+is a lot of work and a lot to ask for
+
+01:30:42.900 --> 01:30:43.080
+somebody. So asking 3 people to submit a
+
+01:30:45.200 --> 01:30:45.260
+patch means you're saying no to a lot of
+
+01:30:47.280 --> 01:30:47.560
+blood, sweat and tears on the part of like 2
+
+01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:49.460
+people, maybe 2 teams of people.
+
+01:30:55.520 --> 01:30:56.020
+[Speaker 5]: And 1 thing I think is a big expansion is
+
+01:31:02.020 --> 01:31:02.520
+usability and user experience design.
+
+01:31:05.560 --> 01:31:05.900
+I think, and not in the sense like,
+
+01:31:08.260 --> 01:31:08.760
+you know, CUA mode or,
+
+01:31:12.440 --> 01:31:12.560
+you know, people don't realize that Emacs key
+
+01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:14.180
+bindings are actually ergonomic,
+
+01:31:16.720 --> 01:31:17.220
+but more, you know, like for myself,
+
+01:31:20.240 --> 01:31:20.740
+I did a lot of work in sort of bringing out
+
+01:31:24.480 --> 01:31:24.880
+Emacs features and did a lot of things
+
+01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:26.740
+creating this info doc,
+
+01:31:28.940 --> 01:31:29.100
+you know, which is sort of like Space Max or
+
+01:31:30.300 --> 01:31:30.800
+something in the old days.
+
+01:31:33.900 --> 01:31:34.200
+But the process, yeah,
+
+01:31:38.600 --> 01:31:39.100
+kept a lot of that from ever making it into
+
+01:31:40.460 --> 01:31:40.680
+CoreDMX and, you know,
+
+01:31:44.180 --> 01:31:44.680
+just a lack of time on my part to follow up.
+
+01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:47.060
+But if you had somebody,
+
+01:31:51.220 --> 01:31:51.500
+you know, who sort of coalesced all the
+
+01:31:52.820 --> 01:31:53.260
+technical work on like,
+
+01:31:56.280 --> 01:31:56.480
+here's how we can put it together and make it
+
+01:32:01.320 --> 01:32:01.820
+more accessible, I've seen that go a long way
+
+01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:03.300
+in certain environments.
+
+01:32:06.100 --> 01:32:06.340
+And I imagine, you know,
+
+01:32:08.160 --> 01:32:08.660
+it's just not the experience of,
+
+01:32:11.180 --> 01:32:11.680
+you know, most people on the core team.
+
+01:32:14.620 --> 01:32:15.060
+[Speaker 7]: Yeah, for sure. I mean,
+
+01:32:16.160 --> 01:32:16.560
+We don't have, I mean,
+
+01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:18.900
+we're mostly a bunch, we're a bunch of
+
+01:32:20.080 --> 01:32:20.280
+programmers. That's what we are,
+
+01:32:22.640 --> 01:32:22.800
+right? We don't have graphical signers or any
+
+01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:24.620
+of the stuff that you're talking about.
+
+01:32:28.380 --> 01:32:28.580
+So we don't have really any UX experts on
+
+01:32:30.380 --> 01:32:30.800
+board. So perhaps that would be welcome.
+
+01:32:35.460 --> 01:32:35.960
+But then again, how do you even fit the EMAX
+
+01:32:38.880 --> 01:32:39.280
+paradigm into what is typically taught and
+
+01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:41.120
+discussed in UX? I mean,
+
+01:32:43.220 --> 01:32:43.380
+maybe there is a way. I'm sure there are
+
+01:32:45.640 --> 01:32:45.920
+general principles and a lot that we could
+
+01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:48.380
+learn, But then there is also like this,
+
+01:32:52.240 --> 01:32:52.440
+we have to stay true to what Emacs is to some
+
+01:32:53.940 --> 01:32:54.400
+extent and what does that look like
+
+01:32:56.320 --> 01:32:56.580
+concretely. There are discussions to be had
+
+01:32:58.620 --> 01:32:59.120
+for sure, but we would definitely benefit
+
+01:33:02.900 --> 01:33:03.400
+from that type of specific input.
+
+01:33:04.360 --> 01:33:04.480
+[Speaker 3]: Well, I
+
+01:33:06.940 --> 01:33:07.240
+[Speaker 5]: mean, like a simple example today is I looked
+
+01:33:09.720 --> 01:33:09.900
+at the conference guidelines I always stay in
+
+01:33:13.160 --> 01:33:13.420
+dark mode and it said well use light mode for
+
+01:33:16.220 --> 01:33:16.420
+your presentation so okay I'll switch to
+
+01:33:19.280 --> 01:33:19.480
+light mode let me load a theme so I go into
+
+01:33:21.280 --> 01:33:21.780
+all the default themes and,
+
+01:33:23.900 --> 01:33:24.400
+you know, start going through the light ones
+
+01:33:28.080 --> 01:33:28.580
+and then I check all the faces and,
+
+01:33:31.120 --> 01:33:31.620
+you know, there are at least 3 to 5 faces
+
+01:33:35.160 --> 01:33:35.600
+that have nearly invisible text as a result
+
+01:33:38.480 --> 01:33:38.980
+of the background highlighting on them.
+
+01:33:40.080 --> 01:33:40.460
+And I'm like, you know,
+
+01:33:43.380 --> 01:33:43.680
+so there's low hanging fruit like that where
+
+01:33:46.840 --> 01:33:47.020
+people would deal with the structure of the
+
+01:33:49.400 --> 01:33:49.900
+menus, the actual faces,
+
+01:33:53.120 --> 01:33:53.620
+the themes, that don't have to do anything
+
+01:33:57.840 --> 01:33:58.060
+affecting core Emacs except make the
+
+01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:00.460
+presentation much better.
+
+01:34:03.380 --> 01:34:03.640
+[Speaker 7]: Yeah, definitely. If people want to send such
+
+01:34:06.160 --> 01:34:06.660
+polishing patches for various aspects,
+
+01:34:09.280 --> 01:34:09.520
+I spent some time making a new help screen.
+
+01:34:10.520 --> 01:34:10.960
+I don't know if you noticed,
+
+01:34:12.740 --> 01:34:13.040
+I don't know how many people press Control H,
+
+01:34:14.160 --> 01:34:14.660
+Control H on their keyboards,
+
+01:34:17.540 --> 01:34:17.720
+But it's like with new sections and it's
+
+01:34:18.480 --> 01:34:18.980
+sorted a little bit better.
+
+01:34:20.500 --> 01:34:20.640
+It didn't take much. I mean,
+
+01:34:21.660 --> 01:34:22.060
+it took a time obviously,
+
+01:34:23.940 --> 01:34:24.440
+but it's not like it required some fantastic
+
+01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:28.260
+technical knowledge or deep expertise in
+
+01:34:29.200 --> 01:34:29.700
+Emacs Lisp to do that.
+
+01:34:31.480 --> 01:34:31.980
+It's Basically anyone can do stuff like that.
+
+01:34:34.200 --> 01:34:34.340
+So definitely if you're interested in doing
+
+01:34:37.440 --> 01:34:37.680
+that type of work, start discussing with us.
+
+01:34:41.040 --> 01:34:41.440
+Let's talk about what we can do and get doing
+
+01:34:41.820 --> 01:34:42.320
+it, really.
+
+01:34:44.960 --> 01:34:45.140
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, this is exactly in line with your
+
+01:34:45.800 --> 01:34:46.240
+presentation from yesterday,
+
+01:34:47.720 --> 01:34:47.920
+Stefan, as well, because you were just
+
+01:34:50.160 --> 01:34:50.320
+inviting people who are not contributing to
+
+01:34:51.380 --> 01:34:51.740
+the core of Emacs to do so.
+
+01:34:53.200 --> 01:34:53.360
+You were talking to package developer on
+
+01:34:55.120 --> 01:34:55.440
+MailPub, but you were also talking just about
+
+01:34:58.200 --> 01:34:58.380
+the average Joe or Jane just doing their own
+
+01:34:59.580 --> 01:35:00.080
+things or encountering a problem.
+
+01:35:01.120 --> 01:35:01.280
+Now, yes, we talked about,
+
+01:35:02.800 --> 01:35:02.960
+oh, you need to build master and all this,
+
+01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:04.420
+but at the end of the day,
+
+01:35:06.680 --> 01:35:06.960
+low-hanging fruits like the ones Bob just
+
+01:35:09.840 --> 01:35:10.120
+described. If everyone does this at the end,
+
+01:35:11.280 --> 01:35:11.780
+you end up with something that is extremely
+
+01:35:13.520 --> 01:35:13.620
+polished. Perhaps you do not need to have a
+
+01:35:14.900 --> 01:35:15.140
+UX specialist to tell you that,
+
+01:35:18.220 --> 01:35:18.340
+oh, those 2 colors are actually very close to
+
+01:35:21.220 --> 01:35:21.600
+1 another. I think it's kind of a discussion
+
+01:35:23.580 --> 01:35:24.020
+about same defaults as well that you had
+
+01:35:25.080 --> 01:35:25.580
+yesterday. Ultimately,
+
+01:35:27.340 --> 01:35:27.600
+we do not need... Yes,
+
+01:35:28.780 --> 01:35:29.040
+we need more programmers in the world.
+
+01:35:30.480 --> 01:35:30.980
+We want more people to use Emacs.
+
+01:35:33.740 --> 01:35:34.240
+But you don't know. Like,
+
+01:35:36.220 --> 01:35:36.500
+is it going to be someone in computer science
+
+01:35:38.420 --> 01:35:38.620
+that's going to be the next giant on whose
+
+01:35:39.580 --> 01:35:39.880
+shoulders we're going to stand?
+
+01:35:41.003 --> 01:35:41.010
+[Speaker 3]: computer science? Is it going to be someone
+
+01:35:41.066 --> 01:35:41.074
+in computer science that's going to be the
+
+01:35:41.082 --> 01:35:41.090
+next giant
+
+01:35:41.137 --> 01:35:41.145
+[Speaker 1]: on whose shoulders we're going to stand?
+
+01:35:41.184 --> 01:35:41.192
+Is it someone who did not
+
+01:35:41.192 --> 01:35:41.200
+[Speaker 4]: Is it someone who did not study study
+
+01:35:42.660 --> 01:35:42.980
+computer science? Is it going to be someone
+
+01:35:44.060 --> 01:35:44.560
+who did something completely different?
+
+01:35:46.960 --> 01:35:47.120
+We do not know the prototypical user of
+
+01:35:49.280 --> 01:35:49.640
+Emacs. We have some idea about the fact that
+
+01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:51.940
+they might be using you know,
+
+01:35:52.580 --> 01:35:53.080
+Emacs for their programming,
+
+01:35:55.560 --> 01:35:55.680
+but more and more, and as is evidenced by the
+
+01:35:56.420 --> 01:35:56.920
+talks we received with EmacsConf,
+
+01:36:01.020 --> 01:36:01.360
+it's just people doing writing or taking
+
+01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:02.420
+notes for their classes.
+
+01:36:06.340 --> 01:36:06.540
+So it's really interesting to see how and to
+
+01:36:09.400 --> 01:36:09.480
+explore for us how we can give back to the
+
+01:36:11.180 --> 01:36:11.600
+core of Emacs in a way that is mutually
+
+01:36:12.360 --> 01:36:12.700
+constructive because again,
+
+01:36:14.440 --> 01:36:14.940
+to go back to the philosophy or the political
+
+01:36:17.400 --> 01:36:17.640
+agenda that we have is for more people to use
+
+01:36:19.700 --> 01:36:20.200
+software that is not the liberties.
+
+01:36:20.500 --> 01:36:21.000
+Exactly.
+
+01:36:24.140 --> 01:36:24.280
+[Speaker 3]: So right. Yeah. I mean,
+
+01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:26.100
+that's a good spot for me to come right back
+
+01:36:27.380 --> 01:36:27.720
+in. And that's exactly where I do.
+
+01:36:30.200 --> 01:36:30.420
+Right. Because that's that's what it's all
+
+01:36:33.040 --> 01:36:33.540
+about. In the In terms of a tool user,
+
+01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:37.100
+you know, the evolution of using tools as,
+
+01:36:38.620 --> 01:36:39.120
+you know, these creatures have fought,
+
+01:36:42.820 --> 01:36:43.220
+Emacs is fire. Emacs is the ability to learn
+
+01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:46.320
+languages, the ability to manipulate other
+
+01:36:48.140 --> 01:36:48.640
+tools. I mean, it's almost like,
+
+01:36:50.680 --> 01:36:51.140
+you know, God Emperor of Dune level,
+
+01:36:53.720 --> 01:36:54.140
+you know, some Frank Herbert type of powers
+
+01:36:56.480 --> 01:36:56.680
+that you have over your computer and you are
+
+01:36:58.460 --> 01:36:58.740
+not required to understand how all those
+
+01:37:02.440 --> 01:37:02.940
+things work. So from a support standpoint
+
+01:37:04.540 --> 01:37:04.840
+that puts us in a challenging position,
+
+01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:06.720
+right? I spend a lot of time on Pound Emacs
+
+01:37:07.760 --> 01:37:08.040
+and the questions that go by there,
+
+01:37:09.840 --> 01:37:09.960
+I feel bad for people that feel like they
+
+01:37:12.600 --> 01:37:12.720
+have to answer every question that goes by in
+
+01:37:14.060 --> 01:37:14.500
+the channel because no 1 could.
+
+01:37:16.640 --> 01:37:17.080
+No 1 can give an intelligent answer to the,
+
+01:37:18.040 --> 01:37:18.540
+you know, everything from,
+
+01:37:21.260 --> 01:37:21.440
+Hey, how do I change my default font on this
+
+01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:24.020
+operating system? You've never heard of to,
+
+01:37:26.140 --> 01:37:26.480
+you know, how do you know this list code?
+
+01:37:28.040 --> 01:37:28.340
+That's 40 lines long doesn't work.
+
+01:37:30.040 --> 01:37:30.260
+And I think it was a recent change that was
+
+01:37:31.720 --> 01:37:32.220
+made to the P case macro.
+
+01:37:39.480 --> 01:37:39.980
+Do you agree? Right? And as deep as that,
+
+01:37:42.740 --> 01:37:43.240
+well is, if you turn it 90 degrees,
+
+01:37:45.040 --> 01:37:45.200
+the Emacs is that kind of tool to the
+
+01:37:46.080 --> 01:37:46.400
+operating system level.
+
+01:37:48.800 --> 01:37:49.280
+It's letting me walk across to other systems,
+
+01:37:51.360 --> 01:37:51.780
+multi-hop, become the super user,
+
+01:37:55.120 --> 01:37:55.620
+right? And, you know, the just the power,
+
+01:37:57.600 --> 01:37:58.020
+the amplification of power there,
+
+01:38:02.320 --> 01:38:02.820
+it's like the lever combined with the magnet,
+
+01:38:08.140 --> 01:38:08.640
+etc, etc. I mean, just,
+
+01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:14.960
+yeah, I don't know. So I guess where we kind
+
+01:38:16.260 --> 01:38:16.640
+of jump off, where that gets stuck,
+
+01:38:18.580 --> 01:38:18.740
+right, is trying to change something like the
+
+01:38:19.760 --> 01:38:20.260
+defaults in the user experience.
+
+01:38:22.740 --> 01:38:23.240
+So I imagine, you know,
+
+01:38:26.580 --> 01:38:26.920
+we don't get 1 great idea about user
+
+01:38:28.020 --> 01:38:28.520
+experience, we'll get 3,
+
+01:38:30.240 --> 01:38:30.480
+right? And then Once again,
+
+01:38:32.980 --> 01:38:33.400
+we have to send our brave developers off to
+
+01:38:36.220 --> 01:38:36.440
+build 1 to 3 patches, some of which won't see
+
+01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:41.140
+the light of day. I think that's where the
+
+01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:42.420
+breakthrough is needed.
+
+01:38:46.680 --> 01:38:47.180
+Another evolution in the packaging thought,
+
+01:38:48.620 --> 01:38:49.120
+or maybe it's not packaging.
+
+01:38:50.920 --> 01:38:51.380
+Maybe it's the compilation step.
+
+01:38:52.800 --> 01:38:53.220
+Maybe it's the distribution step.
+
+01:38:56.120 --> 01:38:56.280
+Maybe we want the Debians of the world to
+
+01:38:59.220 --> 01:38:59.540
+deliver Emacs as 2 different pieces now.
+
+01:39:03.540 --> 01:39:03.700
+And there's a UX piece that we want you to
+
+01:39:05.280 --> 01:39:05.780
+package each 1 that you package,
+
+01:39:09.060 --> 01:39:09.240
+each 1 per window manager that you support or
+
+01:39:11.380 --> 01:39:11.660
+at the intersection of each window manager
+
+01:39:12.940 --> 01:39:13.300
+and display manager you port.
+
+01:39:15.200 --> 01:39:15.300
+And the other one's just the server and you
+
+01:39:17.040 --> 01:39:17.280
+don't even have to package that if I'm only
+
+01:39:19.680 --> 01:39:20.020
+offering the CLI or there's a you know like
+
+01:39:21.960 --> 01:39:22.280
+I'm making all this up and I can't code a
+
+01:39:23.760 --> 01:39:24.260
+single thing like what I just said,
+
+01:39:26.920 --> 01:39:27.420
+but I think that there's a technical
+
+01:39:31.640 --> 01:39:32.140
+opportunity. Pretty high level for technical
+
+01:39:35.020 --> 01:39:35.520
+there of just thinking about a way to accept
+
+01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:40.680
+contributions of experience with maybe a
+
+01:39:43.780 --> 01:39:44.280
+little less rigor and a little less ground
+
+01:39:44.900 --> 01:39:45.400
+into the marble.
+
+01:39:50.400 --> 01:39:50.800
+[Speaker 5]: Yeah it makes me think of somebody at work
+
+01:39:54.220 --> 01:39:54.340
+just brought up pair programming and he's in
+
+01:39:58.080 --> 01:39:58.580
+love with it. He wants to pair up and do it,
+
+01:40:01.120 --> 01:40:01.620
+which is not true of all programmers.
+
+01:40:05.800 --> 01:40:06.300
+But I said, okay, so you spearhead that.
+
+01:40:10.680 --> 01:40:10.900
+If we, I think it is a very high barrier to
+
+01:40:13.580 --> 01:40:13.780
+get your patches in because of course they
+
+01:40:15.420 --> 01:40:15.860
+need to meet the quality standard of Emacs.
+
+01:40:20.800 --> 01:40:21.300
+So if people who are doing day-to-day
+
+01:40:24.200 --> 01:40:24.700
+understand that process and can do it well,
+
+01:40:28.200 --> 01:40:28.540
+could work with some of the people who can't
+
+01:40:30.040 --> 01:40:30.540
+quite contribute at that level,
+
+01:40:35.020 --> 01:40:35.240
+but have ideas that are on the level that
+
+01:40:39.780 --> 01:40:40.280
+should go in, pairing them up could really
+
+01:40:41.420 --> 01:40:41.920
+move a lot of that forward.
+
+01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:46.500
+Like Lars, I don't know what his,
+
+01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:50.500
+I get the feeling maybe he's retired.
+
+01:40:54.960 --> 01:40:55.380
+So, you know, maybe he has some time,
+
+01:40:58.300 --> 01:40:58.640
+you know, and he's really good at going back
+
+01:41:00.320 --> 01:41:00.480
+in and saying, you know,
+
+01:41:02.400 --> 01:41:02.480
+these areas haven't gotten attention in a
+
+01:41:05.660 --> 01:41:05.900
+while, so I'm going to go kill some bugs and
+
+01:41:08.160 --> 01:41:08.660
+look at them and fix them up.
+
+01:41:13.640 --> 01:41:13.840
+So I would think he would be good to do that
+
+01:41:15.340 --> 01:41:15.480
+with someone. But you know,
+
+01:41:22.400 --> 01:41:22.740
+Again, I've got years of code that would just
+
+01:41:25.320 --> 01:41:25.760
+require somebody to work through it to update
+
+01:41:28.340 --> 01:41:28.660
+to the latest code base and diff against it.
+
+01:41:30.080 --> 01:41:30.480
+But it does things like,
+
+01:41:32.960 --> 01:41:33.420
+I mean, like if anybody used RMAIL anymore,
+
+01:41:36.200 --> 01:41:36.700
+I made the summary mode of RMAIL exactly
+
+01:41:40.080 --> 01:41:40.580
+compatible key-wise with the main buffer,
+
+01:41:43.140 --> 01:41:43.260
+which it never was, and fixed a number of
+
+01:41:46.120 --> 01:41:46.620
+other features. Dured made operations
+
+01:41:49.340 --> 01:41:49.480
+reversible, where you mark something and you
+
+01:41:51.420 --> 01:41:51.920
+unmark it, and you can go up and down.
+
+01:41:53.160 --> 01:41:53.480
+And there are all these little
+
+01:41:56.260 --> 01:41:56.760
+incompatibilities that kind of add up across
+
+01:42:00.120 --> 01:42:00.620
+time, and they never seem to get addressed.
+
+01:42:06.180 --> 01:42:06.480
+We could just fix them and people would start
+
+01:42:09.400 --> 01:42:09.640
+to say, oh, this is smoother and they are
+
+01:42:12.580 --> 01:42:12.820
+getting more of that experience because it
+
+01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:15.560
+feels like the systems maybe 80,
+
+01:42:20.740 --> 01:42:21.240
+85% of the way there in a lot of thoughtful
+
+01:42:26.040 --> 01:42:26.200
+design. But that last 15% could be the
+
+01:42:29.640 --> 01:42:30.100
+difference between an iPhone and an Android
+
+01:42:32.260 --> 01:42:32.760
+phone of usability-wise.
+
+01:42:38.720 --> 01:42:38.940
+So that's a thought. That's a
+
+01:42:41.100 --> 01:42:41.240
+[Speaker 3]: brilliant idea, and it probably can be
+
+01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:43.340
+applied far wider than emacs.
+
+01:42:46.060 --> 01:42:46.320
+That's something that that FSF should
+
+01:42:48.480 --> 01:42:48.980
+consider suggesting across,
+
+01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:50.420
+you know, GNU packages,
+
+01:42:54.280 --> 01:42:54.600
+for example, like a matchmaking project seems
+
+01:42:56.520 --> 01:42:56.880
+like something that FSF community teams
+
+01:43:04.020 --> 01:43:04.110
+should think about. Yeah,
+
+01:43:04.360 --> 01:43:04.520
+I was going
+
+01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:05.420
+[Speaker 1]: That's so... to say also,
+
+01:43:08.080 --> 01:43:08.140
+I noticed that the name Debian came up a
+
+01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:10.260
+while ago and now we were talking about
+
+01:43:14.540 --> 01:43:15.040
+programming and such and Mentoring maybe and
+
+01:43:17.960 --> 01:43:18.320
+Debian has this service or part of their site
+
+01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:20.100
+or community called Mentors.
+
+01:43:22.120 --> 01:43:22.620
+They have a website, mentors.debian.net,
+
+01:43:26.920 --> 01:43:27.100
+where the idea is that people who want to get
+
+01:43:28.100 --> 01:43:28.480
+into contributing to Debian,
+
+01:43:29.580 --> 01:43:30.080
+for example, to package things,
+
+01:43:33.200 --> 01:43:33.480
+but obviously don't have upload rights right
+
+01:43:35.720 --> 01:43:36.000
+away. This is where they can go to,
+
+01:43:38.460 --> 01:43:38.760
+and this is separate from their mailing list
+
+01:43:42.340 --> 01:43:42.580
+or bug trackers. They can basically build
+
+01:43:44.760 --> 01:43:45.260
+their changed packages and upload them here,
+
+01:43:48.220 --> 01:43:48.480
+and then Debian developers who have commit or
+
+01:43:51.380 --> 01:43:51.620
+upload rights to the Debian archive can go
+
+01:43:55.960 --> 01:43:56.120
+and review and give them feedback or ask them
+
+01:43:57.620 --> 01:43:58.120
+to change something or if it's good,
+
+01:44:01.620 --> 01:44:01.920
+then just easily upload the package right
+
+01:44:04.200 --> 01:44:04.440
+from there. And I wonder if it might make
+
+01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:08.000
+sense to have something kind of like that in
+
+01:44:10.360 --> 01:44:10.840
+like the context of Emacs or the GNU project
+
+01:44:13.360 --> 01:44:13.660
+as a whole, where we have like some kind of
+
+01:44:15.520 --> 01:44:16.020
+a, like loosely defined mentoring thing,
+
+01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:19.120
+where we could pair up people who are more
+
+01:44:20.500 --> 01:44:21.000
+experienced, who, for example,
+
+01:44:22.540 --> 01:44:22.740
+have commit rights in the Emacs core
+
+01:44:27.080 --> 01:44:27.240
+repository to match them up with someone who
+
+01:44:29.080 --> 01:44:29.260
+is just making your very first patches or
+
+01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:31.960
+contributions to Emacs or whatever other GNU
+
+01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:34.200
+package. Just some food for thought,
+
+01:44:38.040 --> 01:44:38.540
+[Speaker 5]: Yeah, sounds good.
+
+01:44:44.340 --> 01:44:44.600
+[Speaker 1]: I guess. Yeah, and then I guess 1 feature of
+
+01:44:47.360 --> 01:44:47.860
+such a system which would be nice is that it,
+
+01:44:49.200 --> 01:44:49.340
+at least in terms of, you know,
+
+01:44:50.380 --> 01:44:50.580
+the mentors that Debbie and that,
+
+01:44:52.200 --> 01:44:52.700
+that it has a web UI, which,
+
+01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:56.200
+is nice because mailing lists might be
+
+01:44:58.140 --> 01:44:58.380
+intimidating for someone who is just getting
+
+01:44:59.340 --> 01:44:59.840
+started, like in these communities.
+
+01:45:03.960 --> 01:45:04.200
+Or, you know, just making patches like that,
+
+01:45:05.440 --> 01:45:05.940
+or just have a series of concrete
+
+01:45:08.100 --> 01:45:08.320
+instructions. Like with mentors at
+
+01:45:11.100 --> 01:45:11.200
+Devian.net, I feel like you can't go wrong in
+
+01:45:13.820 --> 01:45:14.240
+terms of finding the steps of figuring out
+
+01:45:16.260 --> 01:45:16.500
+what you need to do to put together some
+
+01:45:19.040 --> 01:45:19.240
+change. Which I think the same idea could
+
+01:45:20.280 --> 01:45:20.740
+apply to Emacs, for example,
+
+01:45:20.860 --> 01:45:21.360
+as well.
+
+01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:24.960
+[Speaker 7]: I think this is a good point about lowering
+
+01:45:27.440 --> 01:45:27.620
+barriers, and how email is a barrier to
+
+01:45:28.860 --> 01:45:29.240
+people. I mean, so on the 1 hand,
+
+01:45:31.100 --> 01:45:31.320
+you have us guys on Emacs level,
+
+01:45:32.860 --> 01:45:33.360
+we're very used to the email workflow.
+
+01:45:35.140 --> 01:45:35.500
+Like we're not just using it for fun.
+
+01:45:37.040 --> 01:45:37.160
+You know what I mean? Like this is a
+
+01:45:38.320 --> 01:45:38.820
+workhorse. It really is.
+
+01:45:41.400 --> 01:45:41.840
+And it's tried, it's battled,
+
+01:45:42.900 --> 01:45:43.300
+tested. It has some quirks,
+
+01:45:45.140 --> 01:45:45.340
+but we know them extremely well on the other
+
+01:45:48.060 --> 01:45:48.380
+hand. So, but still we want more people
+
+01:45:50.700 --> 01:45:50.880
+involved, right? And we realized that,
+
+01:45:52.760 --> 01:45:52.960
+you know, times are changing as well.
+
+01:45:54.720 --> 01:45:54.900
+And people are more used to doing stuff from
+
+01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:56.140
+the web browser, perhaps.
+
+01:46:00.040 --> 01:46:00.320
+So we do want to move to a forge,
+
+01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:02.420
+or at least start looking into that.
+
+01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:04.060
+But there are some obstacles.
+
+01:46:06.060 --> 01:46:06.280
+So we are looking for volunteers to do that
+
+01:46:07.360 --> 01:46:07.580
+work. I'm not just saying it,
+
+01:46:08.640 --> 01:46:09.140
+like we are very serious.
+
+01:46:11.660 --> 01:46:11.760
+I'm very seriously asking people in the
+
+01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:13.020
+community to consider,
+
+01:46:14.920 --> 01:46:15.280
+hey, could you dedicate some time?
+
+01:46:18.660 --> 01:46:18.900
+I mean, it will take some dedication for sure
+
+01:46:20.600 --> 01:46:20.820
+it will take some time and it will take some
+
+01:46:23.040 --> 01:46:23.300
+describe probably even you know Be prepared
+
+01:46:24.760 --> 01:46:25.260
+to be frustrated at times right,
+
+01:46:26.980 --> 01:46:27.180
+but if you're serious about doing that type
+
+01:46:28.040 --> 01:46:28.260
+of work, okay now
+
+01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:32.900
+[Speaker 3]: I believe you Well, I'm just I'm just teasing
+
+01:46:35.900 --> 01:46:36.140
+but but but yes exactly any I mean it's it's
+
+01:46:38.560 --> 01:46:39.060
+not even a joke right Any serious undertaking
+
+01:46:41.420 --> 01:46:41.920
+having to do with any free software project,
+
+01:46:45.300 --> 01:46:45.600
+just because we are open to the entire world
+
+01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:48.160
+and we pride ourselves on trying to take
+
+01:46:50.020 --> 01:46:50.460
+seriously all input. And if it's a logical
+
+01:46:51.940 --> 01:46:52.040
+argument, then we'll go ahead and take the
+
+01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:53.200
+time to combat with you,
+
+01:46:54.960 --> 01:46:55.180
+even though the maintainer has 300 other
+
+01:46:57.260 --> 01:46:57.760
+things to do. Like, man,
+
+01:46:58.280 --> 01:46:58.740
+this
+
+01:47:00.020 --> 01:47:00.280
+[Speaker 7]: is just the way it is,
+
+01:47:02.840 --> 01:47:03.160
+right? It just, It's not like Emacs is way
+
+01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:07.460
+harder to change than any other project of
+
+01:47:08.680 --> 01:47:09.180
+its longevity and size.
+
+01:47:10.800 --> 01:47:11.100
+It's just these things take time.
+
+01:47:13.420 --> 01:47:13.920
+Try getting a change into Debian.
+
+01:47:15.060 --> 01:47:15.460
+That's an uphill battle.
+
+01:47:16.960 --> 01:47:17.460
+I don't even know where to start with that.
+
+01:47:19.540 --> 01:47:20.040
+That's huge, right? And I have tremendous
+
+01:47:21.640 --> 01:47:21.820
+respect for the people doing that type of
+
+01:47:22.760 --> 01:47:23.260
+work because it takes dedication,
+
+01:47:26.280 --> 01:47:26.440
+it takes effort. So we really need someone to
+
+01:47:27.180 --> 01:47:27.600
+step up from the community,
+
+01:47:29.760 --> 01:47:30.060
+I think, to be a champion for something like
+
+01:47:33.160 --> 01:47:33.600
+this and work together with us on Emacs Devil
+
+01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:38.200
+and off Emacs Devil, probably with me and Eli
+
+01:47:40.320 --> 01:47:40.600
+and perhaps some other people that could be
+
+01:47:41.820 --> 01:47:42.280
+in the mail thread, and we could coordinate
+
+01:47:44.620 --> 01:47:44.960
+this type of work. I would be super excited
+
+01:47:46.560 --> 01:47:47.060
+if someone wanted to get the ball rolling.
+
+01:47:48.480 --> 01:47:48.980
+I can't do everything.
+
+01:47:51.100 --> 01:47:51.340
+I wish I could. Like, I thought about it.
+
+01:47:52.840 --> 01:47:53.000
+Should I just put everything to the side and
+
+01:47:53.860 --> 01:47:54.000
+do this? But then, I mean,
+
+01:47:54.800 --> 01:47:55.080
+there are some, there are other
+
+01:47:56.040 --> 01:47:56.400
+responsibilities as well.
+
+01:47:57.740 --> 01:47:58.040
+So we need someone to step up.
+
+01:47:58.520 --> 01:47:59.020
+We need help here.
+
+01:48:03.220 --> 01:48:03.460
+[Speaker 3]: you're gonna speak. I was totally gonna pick
+
+01:48:04.120 --> 01:48:04.620
+on you. Go ahead.
+
+01:48:05.540 --> 01:48:05.820
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so. Oh, good, Thanks,
+
+01:48:06.540 --> 01:48:06.860
+yeah, I was just gonna say,
+
+01:48:08.460 --> 01:48:08.960
+yeah, I echo Stefan's sentiments.
+
+01:48:11.680 --> 01:48:11.960
+And that, yeah, in terms of like maybe
+
+01:48:14.020 --> 01:48:14.080
+experimenting with a different Forge or a
+
+01:48:15.280 --> 01:48:15.600
+better Forge and like,
+
+01:48:16.124 --> 01:48:16.296
+you know, supplementing Savannah.
+
+01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:17.140
+And supplementing Savannah.
+
+01:48:20.860 --> 01:48:20.920
+I actually did some initial work a couple of
+
+01:48:23.240 --> 01:48:23.740
+months ago to get a SourceFed instance
+
+01:48:24.860 --> 01:48:25.360
+installed for the new project.
+
+01:48:28.440 --> 01:48:28.660
+And I've done some work on and off,
+
+01:48:29.340 --> 01:48:29.760
+but then life happens,
+
+01:48:32.140 --> 01:48:32.640
+especially from September onwards.
+
+01:48:35.240 --> 01:48:35.500
+But even from earlier in the year,
+
+01:48:36.460 --> 01:48:36.960
+the project has been semi-dormant,
+
+01:48:38.740 --> 01:48:39.240
+but I have been meaning to get to that.
+
+01:48:42.740 --> 01:48:42.900
+So I'm like 1 such person who's interested in
+
+01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:44.960
+that type of work and driving it forward and
+
+01:48:47.640 --> 01:48:47.880
+I would love you know if anyone's and anyone
+
+01:48:50.820 --> 01:48:50.980
+else has the kind of time and energy and the
+
+01:48:52.760 --> 01:48:53.260
+interest to help with something like that.
+
+01:48:55.280 --> 01:48:55.780
+Yes, please reach out to all of us,
+
+01:48:56.880 --> 01:48:57.380
+to Emacs core developers,
+
+01:48:58.100 --> 01:48:58.600
+of course, and to myself.
+
+01:49:01.840 --> 01:49:02.340
+This is something that could be very useful,
+
+01:49:04.960 --> 01:49:05.460
+not just for GNU Emacs and Emacs developers,
+
+01:49:09.760 --> 01:49:10.240
+but also for any other GNU package as well.
+
+01:49:13.040 --> 01:49:13.480
+So yeah, that's 1 area of potential
+
+01:49:15.660 --> 01:49:16.060
+contribution and 1 thing that we sort of,
+
+01:49:17.860 --> 01:49:18.340
+I guess, regularly meet with the FSF
+
+01:49:20.140 --> 01:49:20.640
+sysadmins to discuss these kinds of projects
+
+01:49:22.120 --> 01:49:22.620
+and things as Corwin would know.
+
+01:49:24.520 --> 01:49:24.720
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, that's kind of, I mean,
+
+01:49:26.280 --> 01:49:26.420
+you knew exactly where I was going to,
+
+01:49:27.960 --> 01:49:28.420
+and I'm glad that you volunteered yourself
+
+01:49:30.040 --> 01:49:30.540
+personally because that's the best choice.
+
+01:49:32.320 --> 01:49:32.820
+If you're hearing this and you're thinking,
+
+01:49:35.760 --> 01:49:36.260
+you know, maybe I should do some sysop stuff,
+
+01:49:38.200 --> 01:49:38.700
+literally reach out to Amin.
+
+01:49:41.040 --> 01:49:41.420
+And because it's complicated,
+
+01:49:43.040 --> 01:49:43.320
+there are a lot of projects to volunteer for.
+
+01:49:44.120 --> 01:49:44.620
+They're all very worthy.
+
+01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:49.020
+And it's sort of political to figure out what
+
+01:49:52.760 --> 01:49:53.000
+we're gonna try to change for whom first to
+
+01:49:55.940 --> 01:49:56.260
+demonstrate we can do all the things we wanna
+
+01:49:58.320 --> 01:49:58.440
+do to make it better without losing all the
+
+01:50:00.340 --> 01:50:00.540
+things that are important about how it is
+
+01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:04.480
+today. And we'll do it in a measured way like
+
+01:50:06.500 --> 01:50:06.760
+everybody's just like room full of rocking
+
+01:50:09.640 --> 01:50:09.780
+chairs everybody's got a long tail it's a
+
+01:50:12.340 --> 01:50:12.620
+hard project but you will do something that
+
+01:50:15.380 --> 01:50:15.540
+just a lot like as a Savannah hacker which I
+
+01:50:17.920 --> 01:50:18.240
+am with Amin So that's how I know about his
+
+01:50:20.080 --> 01:50:20.340
+work on that project. We worked together on
+
+01:50:22.300 --> 01:50:22.800
+the Savannah Forge. I'm aware of his work
+
+01:50:26.660 --> 01:50:26.980
+piloting SourceHut recently and just with a
+
+01:50:29.020 --> 01:50:29.240
+working group there to look at the next
+
+01:50:30.540 --> 01:50:31.040
+generation of forges for GNU.
+
+01:50:34.160 --> 01:50:34.340
+Emacs of course as a GNU package could go do
+
+01:50:36.540 --> 01:50:36.820
+its own thing. FFS would most likely give
+
+01:50:38.360 --> 01:50:38.560
+cash to go do its own thing,
+
+01:50:39.720 --> 01:50:39.860
+even if it didn't like it.
+
+01:50:41.140 --> 01:50:41.520
+We know, you know, as a,
+
+01:50:42.800 --> 01:50:43.260
+like if I put on, I'm not FSF,
+
+01:50:44.260 --> 01:50:44.600
+but if I put on that hat,
+
+01:50:45.800 --> 01:50:46.300
+I imagine that we must know.
+
+01:50:50.020 --> 01:50:50.200
+Emacs is a flagship thing that people in the
+
+01:50:52.420 --> 01:50:52.800
+real world depend on. If I get this ancient
+
+01:50:55.320 --> 01:50:55.820
+computer, I get a working Linux distribution
+
+01:50:59.340 --> 01:50:59.500
+and Emacs. Maybe it's not Microsoft Word as a
+
+01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:01.300
+word processor, but you guys,
+
+01:51:03.080 --> 01:51:03.580
+you can learn a language on it for sure,
+
+01:51:05.600 --> 01:51:05.800
+you know And you can do your homework on it
+
+01:51:08.300 --> 01:51:08.680
+and you know It's it makes your you can edit
+
+01:51:10.580 --> 01:51:10.960
+things and then you can edit your system
+
+01:51:13.900 --> 01:51:14.340
+files and teach yourself how to manage a GNU
+
+01:51:17.860 --> 01:51:18.040
+system and you can You know so Emacs is
+
+01:51:19.540 --> 01:51:19.840
+really powerful as a practical tool.
+
+01:51:21.560 --> 01:51:21.720
+Like I keep coming back to that point when I
+
+01:51:25.040 --> 01:51:25.320
+think about Emacs, like I really put it as
+
+01:51:27.380 --> 01:51:27.880
+like, it's an important tool on the like
+
+01:51:31.780 --> 01:51:32.080
+humans inventing tools level just because it
+
+01:51:35.080 --> 01:51:35.280
+lets me make this editor into whatever I need
+
+01:51:37.580 --> 01:51:38.080
+it to be to get my actual work done.
+
+01:51:39.520 --> 01:51:39.860
+Whether that's getting the length,
+
+01:51:41.460 --> 01:51:41.600
+maybe that's making the font big enough that
+
+01:51:43.260 --> 01:51:43.380
+I can see it, or making it easy enough to
+
+01:51:44.760 --> 01:51:45.060
+change from this font to that font,
+
+01:51:45.920 --> 01:51:46.420
+changing the background colors,
+
+01:51:47.960 --> 01:51:48.460
+like your basic vision,
+
+01:51:49.960 --> 01:51:50.460
+accessibility issues, right?
+
+01:51:52.740 --> 01:51:53.120
+All, you know, solved,
+
+01:51:55.080 --> 01:51:55.320
+I can bake that customization in and I can
+
+01:51:56.320 --> 01:51:56.580
+pretty much depend on,
+
+01:51:57.900 --> 01:51:58.400
+no matter what we change in Emacs,
+
+01:51:59.760 --> 01:52:00.140
+I'm gonna accept the new version,
+
+01:52:01.920 --> 01:52:02.220
+it's gonna be on the next computer I get,
+
+01:52:03.840 --> 01:52:04.000
+I'm going to install the package and my
+
+01:52:05.920 --> 01:52:06.100
+configuration that sets all that up will be
+
+01:52:10.960 --> 01:52:11.100
+there for me. Right? It's like back to
+
+01:52:13.300 --> 01:52:13.780
+Stefan's point, what, 6 and a half hours ago,
+
+01:52:16.120 --> 01:52:16.620
+I mean, you know, 20 minutes ago about
+
+01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:24.180
+just... Oh gosh, I lost it.
+
+01:52:27.980 --> 01:52:28.260
+Boy, I really thought I had handed that
+
+01:52:29.020 --> 01:52:29.520
+neatly back to you.
+
+01:52:36.040 --> 01:52:36.220
+[Speaker 1]: No problem, Yeah, I think we're in general in
+
+01:52:36.220 --> 01:52:36.720
+agreement.
+
+01:52:41.980 --> 01:52:42.480
+[Speaker 4]: If we are now in the realm of Concord,
+
+01:52:44.800 --> 01:52:44.960
+of harmony, and the realm of midnight in
+
+01:52:47.560 --> 01:52:47.720
+Europe, Should we bring this discussion to a
+
+01:52:49.200 --> 01:52:49.460
+close or we could go all night,
+
+01:52:51.180 --> 01:52:51.500
+but I'll need to explain to my employer why
+
+01:52:52.720 --> 01:52:53.220
+my eyes are barely open tomorrow.
+
+01:52:56.600 --> 01:52:57.100
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea.
+
+01:52:59.960 --> 01:53:00.460
+I see some folks starting to slowly sign off.
+
+01:53:02.740 --> 01:53:03.060
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, also, you know, Leo,
+
+01:53:04.680 --> 01:53:05.180
+you could leave and just miss out.
+
+01:53:05.460 --> 01:53:05.960
+What?
+
+01:53:13.620 --> 01:53:13.820
+[Speaker 7]: Hey, Sasha, can I say something like what an
+
+01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:16.020
+amazing job with everything you're doing in
+
+01:53:16.960 --> 01:53:17.300
+the community over the years?
+
+01:53:18.820 --> 01:53:19.240
+I'm so impressed with Emacs News.
+
+01:53:22.020 --> 01:53:22.160
+What a great resource to stay up to date in
+
+01:53:24.720 --> 01:53:24.760
+Emacs. Just really hats off to you for a
+
+01:53:25.080 --> 01:53:25.580
+whole lot.
+
+01:53:26.680 --> 01:53:26.880
+[Speaker 3]: Thank you
+
+01:53:29.440 --> 01:53:29.700
+[Speaker 0]: very much. It actually turned out to be quite
+
+01:53:31.840 --> 01:53:32.220
+timely that John Wheatley had suggested it
+
+01:53:35.020 --> 01:53:35.140
+back when he was maintainer because when I
+
+01:53:36.980 --> 01:53:37.200
+had the kiddo, I suddenly had 0 time to
+
+01:53:38.000 --> 01:53:38.440
+actually write new things.
+
+01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:39.840
+But reading things is fine.
+
+01:53:41.820 --> 01:53:42.040
+I can just speed read all the Reddit things
+
+01:53:43.160 --> 01:53:43.660
+and put the links together.
+
+01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:46.300
+So I'm very glad that Emacs news is helpful.
+
+01:53:49.080 --> 01:53:49.580
+[Speaker 7]: it really is, yeah.
+
+01:53:55.380 --> 01:53:55.880
+[Speaker 3]: It is, So, okay, now let's try to go for our
+
+01:54:00.040 --> 01:54:00.480
+closing thoughts here while Leo's still here.
+
+01:54:01.740 --> 01:54:02.140
+And then if we wanna keep rolling,
+
+01:54:04.760 --> 01:54:05.260
+even after Leo drops, we won't tell him,
+
+01:54:06.420 --> 01:54:06.920
+we'll tell him we're stuck.
+
+01:54:12.380 --> 01:54:12.540
+[Speaker 4]: I guess that was a beacon to me to perhaps go
+
+01:54:14.140 --> 01:54:14.440
+for the second close of the day I've already
+
+01:54:18.080 --> 01:54:18.380
+done it I can do it again But I will prove
+
+01:54:19.300 --> 01:54:19.480
+Sasha wrong this time.
+
+01:54:21.020 --> 01:54:21.520
+I will miss out if need be because really,
+
+01:54:24.160 --> 01:54:24.660
+I have been very impressed with the sleep
+
+01:54:28.700 --> 01:54:29.120
+record that you had and I am very envious
+
+01:54:32.040 --> 01:54:32.220
+right now of your past ability to sleep more
+
+01:54:33.160 --> 01:54:33.380
+than 9 hours per night.
+
+01:54:35.440 --> 01:54:35.560
+And I wish I would be able to go back to
+
+01:54:37.300 --> 01:54:37.800
+this. But anyway, folks,
+
+01:54:38.560 --> 01:54:39.060
+I'm going to drop out.
+
+01:54:40.520 --> 01:54:40.680
+People might hang out for a little while
+
+01:54:42.360 --> 01:54:42.520
+longer. Bear in mind that Sasha might get
+
+01:54:44.480 --> 01:54:44.980
+called at any point to go take care of Kido.
+
+01:54:47.220 --> 01:54:47.720
+So this might wrap up very fast afterwards.
+
+01:54:49.780 --> 01:54:49.920
+But at any rate, it was my pleasure to be the
+
+01:54:51.420 --> 01:54:51.820
+host today. Stefan, thank you for joining.
+
+01:54:53.520 --> 01:54:54.020
+Bob, thank you for joining and interacting
+
+01:54:56.040 --> 01:54:56.320
+with us and making this a little more
+
+01:54:58.860 --> 01:54:59.020
+interactive and more plural than just the
+
+01:55:01.260 --> 01:55:01.760
+co-organizers. And on that note,
+
+01:55:03.640 --> 01:55:03.900
+I will be leaving. So have a wonderful night,
+
+01:55:05.860 --> 01:55:06.020
+everyone. And we'll see you next year for the
+
+01:55:06.740 --> 01:55:07.240
+next edition, potentially.
+
+01:55:09.560 --> 01:55:10.060
+[Speaker 3]: Thank you, Leo. You're my hero.
+
+01:55:11.580 --> 01:55:12.040
+I take everything I said on mumble back.
+
+01:55:12.280 --> 01:55:12.780
+You're amazing.
+
+01:55:14.840 --> 01:55:15.340
+[Speaker 4]: bye everyone.
+
+01:55:16.400 --> 01:55:16.680
+[Speaker 1]: All right, Thank you all.
+
+01:55:17.960 --> 01:55:18.220
+Take care. Bye. I will
+
+01:55:20.200 --> 01:55:20.580
+[Speaker 6]: also say bye bye. I also need to go to bed.
+
+01:55:22.200 --> 01:55:22.700
+Thank you all for this cool conference and
+
+01:55:24.920 --> 01:55:25.080
+hopefully we're here through the year and at
+
+01:55:25.900 --> 01:55:26.400
+least in 1 year.
+
+01:55:30.900 --> 01:55:31.400
+[Speaker 3]: You've probably made the rest of the rest of
+
+01:55:34.440 --> 01:55:34.700
+the victorious. You really stepped up.
+
+01:55:38.300 --> 01:55:38.800
+[Speaker 5]: your contributions.
+
+01:55:38.980 --> 01:55:39.220
+[Speaker 3]: Thanks so much for Yeah,
+
+01:55:40.580 --> 01:55:40.960
+[Speaker 1]: thanks so much for being a part of it,
+
+01:55:41.720 --> 01:55:42.100
+specifically you, Floey,
+
+01:55:43.480 --> 01:55:43.980
+and just everyone. Thank you all.
+
+01:55:48.180 --> 01:55:48.420
+[Speaker 6]: Have a nice day or night and we'll hear each
+
+01:55:48.740 --> 01:55:49.240
+other. Bye!
+
+01:55:51.220 --> 01:55:51.420
+[Speaker 1]: See you. Okay, well,
+
+01:55:51.880 --> 01:55:52.360
+[Speaker 3]: Thanks, Zen. I'll go next.
+
+01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:54.300
+I'm the next newest, I think.
+
+01:55:59.640 --> 01:56:00.140
+Well, I want to say also,
+
+01:56:01.800 --> 01:56:02.300
+you know, Bob and Stefan,
+
+01:56:03.660 --> 01:56:03.760
+thank you so much for jumping in and
+
+01:56:04.860 --> 01:56:05.360
+participating in the closing remarks.
+
+01:56:06.700 --> 01:56:07.200
+I too think it's a lot of,
+
+01:56:08.560 --> 01:56:08.960
+like, it's fun to just,
+
+01:56:10.760 --> 01:56:11.260
+like, share the buzz after the convention.
+
+01:56:13.260 --> 01:56:13.460
+We've got all these millions of ideas and
+
+01:56:16.120 --> 01:56:16.480
+then to have a group, a little group think
+
+01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:19.460
+about what we're walking away from that with.
+
+01:56:22.360 --> 01:56:22.540
+What is the temperature of the fire in your
+
+01:56:24.360 --> 01:56:24.860
+belly? And it's just...
+
+01:56:28.440 --> 01:56:28.740
+I mean, this is 1 of the highlights of my
+
+01:56:30.200 --> 01:56:30.700
+year in a way that it's just...
+
+01:56:31.780 --> 01:56:31.970
+I don't think other people...
+
+01:56:33.880 --> 01:56:34.120
+I don't think I dare explain it to other
+
+01:56:35.880 --> 01:56:36.020
+people. I think my wife understands and I
+
+01:56:40.600 --> 01:56:40.860
+will do. So thank you very much for this
+
+01:56:42.340 --> 01:56:42.840
+conference and the opportunity to participate
+
+01:56:45.540 --> 01:56:46.040
+in it. You know, just the conversation,
+
+01:56:48.540 --> 01:56:49.040
+how vibrant the chat is on IRC,
+
+01:56:52.080 --> 01:56:52.580
+how the variety of talks,
+
+01:56:54.140 --> 01:56:54.640
+some of the talks that look like television
+
+01:56:59.380 --> 01:56:59.540
+content to me and others that look a lot like
+
+01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:03.960
+my talk. And working through your slides and
+
+01:57:06.100 --> 01:57:06.280
+doing it live and you know I appreciate that
+
+01:57:10.240 --> 01:57:10.380
+we make a place for all those levels and and
+
+01:57:12.720 --> 01:57:13.220
+show people how to improve our craft as well.
+
+01:57:26.140 --> 01:57:26.460
+I'm not actually dropping or going anywhere.
+
+01:57:29.040 --> 01:57:29.220
+I'll continue to talk about eMAX until I get
+
+01:57:30.860 --> 01:57:31.000
+the dinner time bell. I've probably got an
+
+01:57:40.240 --> 01:57:40.580
+hour here. I'll tell you what will happen
+
+01:57:42.040 --> 01:57:42.160
+though is I'm guaranteed to light a
+
+01:57:43.780 --> 01:57:43.940
+cigarette. You can already see me kind of
+
+01:57:45.860 --> 01:57:46.160
+hovering about my room because I'm trying to
+
+01:57:47.440 --> 01:57:47.780
+avoid like smoking on camera.
+
+01:57:49.300 --> 01:57:49.540
+I don't know where that came from.
+
+01:57:52.360 --> 01:57:52.860
+I'm giving it up in approximately 5 seconds.
+
+01:57:58.980 --> 01:57:59.480
+[Speaker 7]: Yeah I'm gonna hop off.
+
+01:58:00.800 --> 01:58:01.300
+It's possibly right here.
+
+01:58:02.220 --> 01:58:02.720
+I'll work tomorrow.
+
+01:58:06.200 --> 01:58:06.380
+[Speaker 3]: I took the next 2 days off.
+
+01:58:07.320 --> 01:58:07.820
+I'm actually going camping,
+
+01:58:11.040 --> 01:58:11.280
+Stefan. I know I've learned that this
+
+01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:13.300
+conference leaves me completely emotionally
+
+01:58:16.360 --> 01:58:16.860
+exhausted. I just like,
+
+01:58:18.700 --> 01:58:19.140
+I don't know, I watch all,
+
+01:58:20.820 --> 01:58:21.320
+I feel like I just connect with all the,
+
+01:58:23.440 --> 01:58:23.640
+like it's this time where I connect with all
+
+01:58:25.260 --> 01:58:25.580
+these people that spend as much time thinking
+
+01:58:26.580 --> 01:58:27.080
+about Emacs as I do.
+
+01:58:31.480 --> 01:58:31.760
+[Speaker 0]: All right, so maybe we should wrap up before
+
+01:58:32.440 --> 01:58:32.940
+you have like, you know,
+
+01:58:35.380 --> 01:58:35.880
+that overflow error and just...
+
+01:58:38.000 --> 01:58:38.500
+[Speaker 3]: In buster thrill, okay.
+
+01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:41.980
+Thank you
+
+01:58:45.200 --> 01:58:45.440
+[Speaker 0]: so much, everyone. Let us actually wrap up
+
+01:58:47.360 --> 01:58:47.440
+then. Everyone can find the recordings if you
+
+01:58:48.640 --> 01:58:49.140
+want to keep the conversation going.
+
+01:58:51.900 --> 01:58:52.120
+There are meetups, there are people's blog
+
+01:58:54.240 --> 01:58:54.520
+posts and video channels and mailing lists
+
+01:58:55.320 --> 01:58:55.820
+and all those other things.
+
+01:58:58.820 --> 01:58:59.180
+I often I list a lot of meetups in Emacs news
+
+01:59:00.680 --> 01:59:01.080
+so that's another great way to stay connected
+
+01:59:02.560 --> 01:59:03.060
+through the year and we hope to see everybody
+
+01:59:04.740 --> 01:59:05.240
+next year at EmacsConf 2024.
+
+01:59:11.260 --> 01:59:11.420
+[Speaker 4]: Thanks Sasha for the send off and goodbye to
+
+01:59:16.740 --> 01:59:16.940
+everyone. Oh Sasha I think you were muted but
+
+01:59:18.340 --> 01:59:18.520
+yes I was still there I assume that's what
+
+01:59:21.220 --> 01:59:21.720
+you just said. I lied.
+
+01:59:23.680 --> 01:59:23.920
+I was staying around like Corwin was.
+
+01:59:25.440 --> 01:59:25.580
+I just said goodbye, but then I wait in the
+
+01:59:26.520 --> 01:59:27.020
+bushes, waiting for the ambush.
+
+01:59:29.340 --> 01:59:29.840
+[Speaker 3]: Well I'm personally surprised,
+
+01:59:32.780 --> 01:59:33.040
+speaking for myself. I wouldn't have guessed
+
+01:59:36.040 --> 01:59:36.340
+that would happen. All right,
+
+01:59:36.340 --> 01:59:36.580
+[Speaker 4]: The perfect moment. well,
+
+01:59:37.360 --> 01:59:37.680
+I guess that's a wrap then.
+
+01:59:39.060 --> 01:59:39.560
+Thank you, everyone, and see you next year.
+
+01:59:43.440 --> 01:59:43.740
+[Speaker 3]: I thought we were clear like 10 minutes ago.
+
+01:59:45.340 --> 01:59:45.840
+Are we not? We are, right?
+
+01:59:47.400 --> 01:59:47.780
+We're definitely clear.
+
+01:59:48.040 --> 01:59:48.220
+[Speaker 5]: OK, I'm
+
+01:59:49.240 --> 01:59:49.440
+[Speaker 3]: hanging up now. Good night.
+
+01:59:50.640 --> 01:59:51.140
+It was wonderful to meet you.
+
+01:59:51.900 --> 01:59:52.400
+[Speaker 7]: Take care Corwin
+
+01:59:56.520 --> 01:59:57.020
+[Speaker 4]: Bye Stefan. Bye. Bye all