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diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ecfdd018 --- /dev/null +++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,8261 @@ +WEBVTT + + +00:00:53.489 --> 00:00:53.989 +[Speaker 0]: All right. I have unmuted. + +00:00:59.860 --> 00:01:00.180 +It's been a while since I've actually done an + +00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:05.860 +actual presentation. Hi. + +00:01:08.979 --> 00:01:09.380 +Okay. I'm going to deafen myself and mumble + +00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:13.040 +so that I don't get distracted by backstage + +00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:16.900 +chatter. Hello, everyone! Okay, + +00:01:17.980 --> 00:01:18.480 +so where are we? Questions, + +00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:21.300 +questions, questions. Okay, + +00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:23.600 +how easy would it be for someone else to + +00:01:25.960 --> 00:01:26.120 +reuse the Emacs conf strips and config to do + +00:01:29.380 --> 00:01:29.640 +a conf of their own? Like everything else, + +00:01:32.220 --> 00:01:32.560 +I have no idea if things actually work until + +00:01:35.140 --> 00:01:35.600 +somebody does it for, you know, + +00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:37.680 +to get everything to run on a computer that + +00:01:40.080 --> 00:01:40.200 +isn't my computer and with assumptions that + +00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:41.120 +aren't my assumptions. + +00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:43.340 +So, I have no idea. But optimistically, + +00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:46.480 +I have put most of the EmacsConf things, + +00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:49.200 +like EmacsConf, the name of the conference + +00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:50.620 +and things like that in variables. + +00:01:53.160 --> 00:01:53.320 +So if theoretically someone were to run an + +00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:56.320 +org mode conference or something like that, + +00:01:58.440 --> 00:01:58.940 +it might be possible to reuse all this code. + +00:02:01.960 --> 00:02:02.080 +We'll see. I don't know if it's going to be + +00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:03.560 +easy. I don't even know if it's going to be + +00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:05.260 +possible, but it might be fun to try. + +00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.199 +What tools would I like to exist in Emacs + +00:02:11.720 --> 00:02:12.220 +land to help with preparing the conference + +00:02:15.880 --> 00:02:16.320 +next time? Well, I've already been thinking + +00:02:18.420 --> 00:02:18.600 +about adjustments that I want to make to + +00:02:21.220 --> 00:02:21.720 +sub-eds so that the audio synchronization + +00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:24.560 +issues that we sometimes have with FFmpeg can + +00:02:26.600 --> 00:02:27.040 +be something that I can flag and maybe fix + +00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:29.560 +even while I'm watching a video. + +00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:33.340 +But also as much as possible, + +00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:37.020 +I like to leave the actual FFMPEG audio and + +00:02:39.220 --> 00:02:39.440 +visual tinkering with to other people like + +00:02:41.320 --> 00:02:41.520 +Leo, whose patience is slightly more than + +00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:45.180 +mine, because audio is, + +00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:47.260 +I still don't have the patience to sit for + +00:02:48.620 --> 00:02:48.900 +it. You can tell I talk really, + +00:02:50.540 --> 00:02:50.860 +really quickly. I'm still trying to squeeze + +00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:53.160 +everything into however little focus time I + +00:02:56.140 --> 00:02:56.280 +actually have. So it would be kind of nice to + +00:03:00.820 --> 00:03:01.320 +use that. Emacs is already doing quite a ton + +00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:04.900 +and stuffing more multimedia processing and + +00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:06.300 +other fun things into it might be + +00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:07.260 +interesting. Who knows? + +00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:09.440 +Oh, the other thing that I would really love + +00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:12.720 +to have that people always ask for is a way + +00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:15.860 +from Emacs to interact with the Etherpad. + +00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:19.340 +The Etherpad API, it seems very granular. + +00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:21.180 +Like, you can set the HTML of a pad, + +00:03:22.920 --> 00:03:23.100 +but you can't actually just append stuff to + +00:03:24.640 --> 00:03:24.960 +it. And I was trying to get something that + +00:03:26.820 --> 00:03:26.980 +could take questions from IRC and + +00:03:28.480 --> 00:03:28.980 +automatically push them into the pad, + +00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:31.400 +even from an ERC bot or whatever, + +00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:34.900 +but no go. If someone were to figure out some + +00:03:38.860 --> 00:03:39.160 +CRDT thing where we can collaboratively edit + +00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:41.500 +the document, that I think is the number 1 + +00:03:42.720 --> 00:03:43.140 +request that people always have around + +00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:46.760 +EmacsConf. That would be really cool to do + +00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:49.320 +more of the conference itself from within + +00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:53.740 +Emacs. I don't know if actually, + +00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:55.860 +well, we have an org file now that launches + +00:03:59.440 --> 00:03:59.940 +the MPV from Emacs. But if you want to have + +00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:02.300 +an ex-widget or something else watching the + +00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:04.240 +conference from within Emacs itself. + +00:04:05.640 --> 00:04:06.140 +I think that will also be really cool. + +00:04:09.480 --> 00:04:09.980 +Yes. And then other fun stuff. + +00:04:12.980 --> 00:04:13.220 +OK, how can speakers and viewers help make + +00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:15.540 +preparing for next year's Emacs Conf even + +00:04:16.300 --> 00:04:16.800 +more fun for the organizers? + +00:04:20.440 --> 00:04:20.899 +Well, I love it when not only do the speakers + +00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:24.780 +do all that work to prepare their talk, + +00:04:27.620 --> 00:04:28.040 +but lately people have actually even been + +00:04:29.780 --> 00:04:30.280 +volunteering to caption their own talks. + +00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:33.740 +And that's great because then they know the + +00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:36.500 +words that they use. And if I can show them + +00:04:39.140 --> 00:04:39.280 +the workflow that we have so that they can do + +00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:42.420 +it very efficiently, because there's all + +00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:44.860 +these wonderful things that I do now with + +00:04:48.340 --> 00:04:48.580 +Subweb Waveform and Aeneas for like the + +00:04:49.900 --> 00:04:50.400 +forced alignment so we can get timestamps + +00:04:53.100 --> 00:04:53.360 +from text and all these other fun things that + +00:04:55.520 --> 00:04:55.680 +make getting a transcript or editing the + +00:04:57.380 --> 00:04:57.880 +captions fun and easy. + +00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:01.000 +That makes it easier for not only speakers to + +00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:03.280 +contribute captions for their own talks, + +00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:05.720 +but also interested volunteers who, + +00:05:07.760 --> 00:05:07.920 +as mentioned, get early access to all the + +00:05:09.140 --> 00:05:09.640 +talks and can watch them at leisure. + +00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:12.800 +And it's, you know, nice prick there. + +00:05:13.700 --> 00:05:14.200 +Definitely should try that. + +00:05:19.400 --> 00:05:19.600 +I do have some sample videos of how we use + +00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:22.000 +subed. But of course, in the process of + +00:05:24.280 --> 00:05:24.780 +shoving like 30 or 40 talks, + +00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:27.100 +maybe 30 talks through it for EmacsConf, + +00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:29.640 +this is like the stress test season for + +00:05:30.340 --> 00:05:30.760 +subed, which is great, + +00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:32.380 +I ended up adding more features. + +00:05:36.260 --> 00:05:36.500 +So 1 of my big to-dos afterwards is I have to + +00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:38.600 +document the different workflows for things + +00:05:40.260 --> 00:05:40.760 +like, okay, you've got a script. + +00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:43.700 +You can use WDiff to get word diffs so you + +00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:45.760 +can take the subtitles and compare them with + +00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:47.720 +the original script and see where the + +00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:49.380 +misrecognized words are. + +00:05:52.960 --> 00:05:53.360 +And that's great. Or you can use SubWeb + +00:05:54.960 --> 00:05:55.440 +Waveform to start adjusting things. + +00:05:56.820 --> 00:05:57.320 +Or for example, if there's a synchronization + +00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:01.820 +issue, I can now middle click on a subtitle + +00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:04.000 +where I want the subtitle to actually start + +00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:06.680 +and then move all the subtitles to start at + +00:06:09.020 --> 00:06:09.280 +that point. So it's getting to be a really + +00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:11.000 +elaborate tool. And I definitely need to + +00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:15.520 +document that and stick all the blog post + +00:06:17.860 --> 00:06:18.040 +links into the readme so that people can find + +00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:20.740 +this in the future. So it's very, + +00:06:23.080 --> 00:06:23.320 +very nifty. And the reason why we do this is + +00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:25.220 +because, well, personally, + +00:06:26.820 --> 00:06:27.160 +I have a hard time sitting and watching + +00:06:28.940 --> 00:06:29.080 +videos. I like to be able to just jump to the + +00:06:31.540 --> 00:06:31.780 +interesting parts or watch it at 3 times + +00:06:33.400 --> 00:06:33.900 +speed, which MPV lets me do. + +00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:36.660 +And the text makes it a lot more searchable, + +00:06:38.960 --> 00:06:39.460 +which is fantastic. And also because, + +00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:41.480 +you know, if you've got all these interesting + +00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:44.720 +variable names and key bindings and whatever, + +00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:47.520 +and the automatic subtitles just don't do the + +00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:49.740 +right thing. So it's nice that people do the + +00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:53.480 +captioning. So, yeah, so that's 1 thing that + +00:06:55.080 --> 00:06:55.380 +people can help with. Captioning is always + +00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:57.280 +very interesting. And the other thing that + +00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:00.780 +people can do is take the inspiration that + +00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:03.340 +you get from EmacsConf and from the ideas + +00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:05.140 +that you have when you're working with Emacs, + +00:07:07.280 --> 00:07:07.780 +and suggest talks for next year's EmacsConf. + +00:07:09.760 --> 00:07:10.260 +And it doesn't have to be a super fancy, + +00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:14.060 +nobody else needs to go out and do a really + +00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:15.420 +professional-looking video. + +00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:17.640 +Even though Howard has set the bar this you + +00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:19.840 +know it's pretty high you don't have to do + +00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:22.660 +that kind of thing it can be just you in a + +00:07:24.860 --> 00:07:25.240 +screen or even just a screen and you talking + +00:07:27.340 --> 00:07:27.400 +about this cool thing that you learned and + +00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:29.340 +they could be a video or it could be a blog + +00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:31.940 +post it could be something else and that + +00:07:34.780 --> 00:07:35.020 +those those things are fantastic because they + +00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:37.200 +inspire people to see what's possible with + +00:07:39.440 --> 00:07:39.620 +Emacs. So that's another big thing that + +00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:41.300 +people can do to help. + +00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:44.480 +And then there's sharing the word about it. + +00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:46.840 +So if you saw something that you really like, + +00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:49.080 +if you write a blog post about it or a tweet + +00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:51.480 +or a toot or whatever else you want to do, + +00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:52.980 +you make a reaction video, + +00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:55.780 +that helps other people discover that stuff + +00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:58.080 +not just today, not just next week, + +00:08:00.340 --> 00:08:00.540 +but you know even later as they search for + +00:08:04.640 --> 00:08:05.140 +these words that as people search for ideas + +00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:07.760 +using words that are not necessarily the ones + +00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:10.560 +in the video, you describing things in other + +00:08:11.980 --> 00:08:12.400 +ways helps with the search engine + +00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:13.740 +optimization, you're not really, + +00:08:15.200 --> 00:08:15.700 +it's just people finding stuff, + +00:08:17.220 --> 00:08:17.500 +which is amazing. So yes, + +00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:19.500 +please write about the cool things that + +00:08:22.840 --> 00:08:23.040 +you've seen and what you'd like to tell other + +00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:26.280 +people about. Suggesting ideas for talks. + +00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:30.340 +Yes. Making talks. All sorts of wonderful + +00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:35.380 +things. OK. Could you elaborate on the + +00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:37.320 +workflow that goes on in your mind for when + +00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:38.320 +approaching these things? + +00:08:40.260 --> 00:08:40.460 +Do you start with an Emacs org solution right + +00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:42.340 +off the bat at this point when faced with a + +00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:44.340 +task? Are there some conscious steps involved + +00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:46.460 +from early ideas to automation of the kind + +00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:49.080 +you just showed? Mostly it starts with, + +00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:51.040 +okay, we got to do this thing. + +00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:54.220 +So I have this to-do. And sometimes, + +00:08:55.860 --> 00:08:56.200 +like in the week before the conference, + +00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:57.720 +I have to think, okay, + +00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:01.000 +is this a top priority thing that I can do + +00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:01.960 +before the conference, + +00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:03.980 +or is it something that I can, + +00:09:05.800 --> 00:09:06.160 +I, I, like we can still do the conference + +00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:08.360 +without doing so I have to just postpone it + +00:09:09.860 --> 00:09:10.360 +until afterwards? So some prioritization + +00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:12.280 +happens. But a lot of times it's like, + +00:09:13.140 --> 00:09:13.320 +okay, you know, like this, + +00:09:14.620 --> 00:09:14.820 +there's a thing that I need to do here. + +00:09:15.920 --> 00:09:16.360 +I don't know how to figure it out, + +00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:19.080 +let me start an org Babble block and start + +00:09:19.760 --> 00:09:20.240 +sketching out something, + +00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.620 +you know, custom function or whatever else, + +00:09:23.980 --> 00:09:24.200 +and then say okay, you know, + +00:09:25.380 --> 00:09:25.760 +hey, that looks kind of useful, + +00:09:27.180 --> 00:09:27.600 +let me see if I can generalize that, + +00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:29.640 +and then let me stick it into the library so + +00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:31.320 +that I can find it next year. + +00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:33.520 +And that's basically how it goes. + +00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:36.000 +It just goes, it just like, + +00:09:37.540 --> 00:09:38.040 +I have a thing that I need to do. + +00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:40.280 +If it's, if I'm going to do it more than + +00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:42.720 +once, or actually even if I'm going to do it, + +00:09:44.640 --> 00:09:44.800 +you know, once I tried to automate it just so + +00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.500 +that I can understand it and, + +00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:48.100 +and then I can, I can, + +00:09:50.280 --> 00:09:50.440 +I can squeeze it into like the 15 minutes I + +00:09:54.140 --> 00:09:54.280 +actually have and I can pause and I can pick + +00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:56.380 +it up again and the code is still there and + +00:09:57.160 --> 00:09:57.660 +my notes are still there? + +00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:00.760 +And then every little bit of the, + +00:10:03.540 --> 00:10:04.040 +every little step like that builds up. + +00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:06.100 +So I can write a short function today, + +00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:07.820 +and then tomorrow when the kid was asleep, + +00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:09.740 +I can write a little bit more of that. + +00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:11.660 +And so it just goes on from there. + +00:10:14.260 --> 00:10:14.760 +And then I just stuff that all in there. + +00:10:17.660 --> 00:10:17.900 +How well does this approach allow for other + +00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:20.140 +organisers to do individual customisations to + +00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:21.640 +their liking while still being able to + +00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:22.620 +collaborate effectively? + +00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:26.460 +We've actually split things up fairly neatly + +00:10:28.020 --> 00:10:28.260 +in the sense that for this year, + +00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:30.940 +for example, most everyone else was super + +00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:34.900 +busy, so I did all the heavy lifting up until + +00:10:37.420 --> 00:10:37.540 +people were available and then they jumped in + +00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:38.740 +with the audio normalization. + +00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:39.840 +Thank you very much, Leo, + +00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:41.780 +for doing all of that stuff and the hosting + +00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:43.340 +and all the other things. + +00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:46.040 +So I tend to do most of the Emacs list + +00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:48.360 +fiddling with and the shell scripting and + +00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:50.460 +stuff like that, aside from the FFmpeg + +00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:53.520 +incantations, which are too arcane for me to + +00:10:56.860 --> 00:10:57.040 +even think about. And then in the course of + +00:10:57.980 --> 00:10:58.180 +watching me deal with like, + +00:10:59.440 --> 00:10:59.640 +oh, no, this video is not playing. + +00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:01.280 +And then they see the commands that I'm + +00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:04.640 +using, like play and then, + +00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:06.240 +you know, play a world, + +00:11:08.760 --> 00:11:08.920 +which is the ideas of the talk that we were + +00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:10.940 +having a hard time with or MPD or whatever. + +00:11:13.520 --> 00:11:13.740 +Then the other organizers kind of just pick + +00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:15.480 +that up by osmosis, because We didn't even + +00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:17.360 +have time to do dry runs for training this + +00:11:20.540 --> 00:11:20.740 +year. So it's just there's not much + +00:11:22.500 --> 00:11:22.660 +collaboration in the sense that I'm just + +00:11:24.400 --> 00:11:24.740 +basically saying, OK, these are the scripts + +00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:26.260 +that I'm going to write for myself. + +00:11:28.980 --> 00:11:29.480 +And you all figure out how to work with that. + +00:11:34.780 --> 00:11:35.280 +What was the hardest problem you encountered + +00:11:37.040 --> 00:11:37.180 +in organizing or running the conference this + +00:11:38.540 --> 00:11:39.040 +year and how do you deal with it? + +00:11:40.680 --> 00:11:40.840 +Oh, the constant, constant problem with + +00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:43.820 +e-mails. There's so many amazing ideas. + +00:11:45.660 --> 00:11:46.160 +I want to fit into the time. + +00:11:46.920 --> 00:11:47.420 +And then afterwards, like, + +00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:49.960 +Sasha, do not mess with production the day + +00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:50.860 +before the conference. + +00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:52.680 +You're going to save that for after the + +00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:54.920 +conference, right? So that's the hardest + +00:11:56.140 --> 00:11:56.420 +part, is just saying, OK, + +00:11:58.620 --> 00:11:58.780 +yes, that's an idea. I'm going to put that in + +00:12:01.400 --> 00:12:01.680 +the inbox. We're going to maybe get to that + +00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:03.620 +next year. But right now, + +00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:05.560 +these are the things that I need to do in + +00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:07.700 +order to get the conference off the ground + +00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:15.320 +reasonably in a reasonable amount of time. + +00:12:17.140 --> 00:12:17.640 +So earlier in the conference, + +00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:19.740 +then I can be like, OK, + +00:12:21.900 --> 00:12:22.360 +what if we do this? What if we run everything + +00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:24.640 +off a crontab instead of using Emacs tramp + +00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:26.180 +timers? Wouldn't that be great? + +00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:28.840 +And then I can explore all those crazy ideas. + +00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:30.720 +But then as we get closer and closer to date, + +00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:32.720 +I'm like, okay, fine. I'm going to like just + +00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:34.700 +capture the idea and deal with it later. + +00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:36.580 +So that's really, really hard for me. + +00:12:39.520 --> 00:12:39.800 +Year to your growth in attendance and after + +00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:41.260 +the conference video watching. + +00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:46.740 +The growth, well, first thing, + +00:12:51.110 --> 00:12:51.610 +there is like absolute growth in the kind of + +00:12:53.520 --> 00:12:53.720 +the quantity of things that people are + +00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:57.180 +sharing. I have a blog post about this that + +00:12:59.440 --> 00:12:59.820 +talks about a number of minutes of talks, + +00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:02.360 +and it's going up. Last year, + +00:13:03.740 --> 00:13:03.960 +we did 2 tracks because I couldn't fit + +00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:05.720 +everything in 1 day. And this year, + +00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:07.240 +we did 2 tracks, but even then, + +00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.360 +everything was kind of squished, + +00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:10.040 +and I was trying to find space in the + +00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:12.160 +schedule. And if you make it so that next + +00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:14.000 +year, we have to figure out 3 tracks, + +00:13:15.760 --> 00:13:16.000 +I think We have another host now, + +00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:17.340 +so it might be doable, + +00:13:19.540 --> 00:13:19.820 +which is great. Who knows? + +00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:23.860 +We'll see. And the other interesting thing + +00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:25.520 +that I'm seeing in terms of growth is that + +00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.720 +people are starting to refer to the talks + +00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:30.300 +from previous conferences that inspired them. + +00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:33.220 +So the evil plan is working in that it is + +00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:35.160 +getting people to get cool stuff out of their + +00:13:37.020 --> 00:13:37.200 +heads and into videos that have like + +00:13:39.560 --> 00:13:39.720 +searchable transcripts and that people can + +00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:42.280 +refer to as for inspiration and for showing + +00:13:42.980 --> 00:13:43.200 +other people, hey, look, + +00:13:44.060 --> 00:13:44.560 +this is what it can do. + +00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:46.860 +So that is fantastic growth. + +00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:49.540 +The actual numbers, I'm intense to look at + +00:13:51.160 --> 00:13:51.660 +the number of simultaneous viewers. + +00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:53.980 +And every so often, it's kind of nice to go + +00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:56.360 +through the YouTube stats or whatever. + +00:13:57.560 --> 00:13:57.980 +But that's not so much as a, + +00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:01.320 +like, I don't really keep that in mind as + +00:14:05.060 --> 00:14:05.560 +much, just because as long as people are + +00:14:07.660 --> 00:14:07.880 +connecting to the ideas and getting stuff out + +00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:13.440 +there and being inspired to think around + +00:14:16.220 --> 00:14:16.720 +more, then it's doing the thing. + +00:14:21.300 --> 00:14:21.460 +Cognizant is working. So where are we now for + +00:14:22.640 --> 00:14:23.140 +questions? Ooh, I can actually, + +00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:25.820 +I have ERC here. I can find eventually. + +00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:28.700 +1 of my screens has Dev in it. + +00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:31.260 +Okay, here we are. What are the other + +00:14:34.900 --> 00:14:35.400 +questions? Probably, Probably an IRC. + +00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:39.520 +Where's IRC? Dove, dove, + +00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:46.200 +dove. I did try to record things more slowly, + +00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:47.520 +and I tried several times, + +00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.020 +but I really just speak very quickly when I + +00:14:53.300 --> 00:14:53.480 +get excited and Emacs is very fun so it is + +00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:00.460 +tough oh yes okay so 1 in once yes automated + +00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:04.540 +present workflows oh yeah okay so where are + +00:15:05.660 --> 00:15:05.840 +we now for time? Oh look, + +00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:07.900 +it's 4.30, should we do our closing remarks + +00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:09.440 +or like how are things going over in the + +00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.340 +other stream? I should find out. + +00:15:14.760 --> 00:15:14.860 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I've been keeping a close eye on the + +00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:16.900 +other 1, but yeah, I believe that- + +00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:20.300 +[Speaker 0]: Yay, look at that, good timing. + +00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:23.300 +Okay, I have managed to zoom through the + +00:15:26.660 --> 00:15:26.980 +questions and we can switch over to the + +00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:31.740 +closing remarks how do we do this yes okay + +00:15:35.060 --> 00:15:35.400 +okay we're gonna oh wait people okay people + +00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:37.760 +who wanted to ask questions how do you want + +00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:39.360 +to do this? Because there are a lot of people + +00:15:42.040 --> 00:15:42.240 +in this 1 here too. You want to go to the + +00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:49.320 +other 1? 0 no, they aren't done yet. + +00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:51.600 +Sorry, I forgot to turn on the con tab + +00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:53.000 +because of course I got excited. + +00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:55.200 +Okay, so Jacob is still answering questions, + +00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:57.440 +which means I get to still answer questions. + +00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:00.060 +Now I'll try to be quiet and let people in + +00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:02.220 +the BBB room speak up if we want to. + +00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:12.540 +Okay that means + +00:16:13.585 --> 00:16:13.650 +[Speaker 3]: are going to hear. + +00:16:13.715 --> 00:16:13.780 +[Speaker 1]: Some more + +00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:16.100 +[Speaker 2]: people in the chat ideas I had on the Emacs + +00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:18.000 +conferences you could have like a little + +00:16:21.300 --> 00:16:21.660 +Emacs starter config just for like the Emacs + +00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:27.040 +conference where you have emms playlist and + +00:16:29.540 --> 00:16:29.780 +IRC help cheer function to help get you into + +00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:35.320 +IRC into ERC and then the to-do states that I + +00:16:36.060 --> 00:16:36.560 +was talking about before. + +00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:40.380 +So you can say, I'm watching this 1, + +00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:41.480 +I want to re-watch this 1, + +00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:43.080 +but I'm going to skip it because I'm watching + +00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:53.220 +something else. I used the HyperBowl package + +00:16:55.680 --> 00:16:55.860 +to go straight to the web pages to all the + +00:16:59.600 --> 00:16:59.860 +either pads but you can also have some quick + +00:17:04.540 --> 00:17:04.960 +functions to go into a CRDT buffer hosted + +00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:07.900 +buffer, where all the org mode Etherpad + +00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:14.440 +documents would be. And then that would get + +00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:15.780 +everybody using Emacs, + +00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:17.839 +and then they could all be chatting with each + +00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:23.980 +other with CRDT, with controlling Emacs. + +00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:25.680 +I don't know how the sub stuff, + +00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:27.339 +I don't know if you can get the sub stuff in + +00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:30.060 +there working, but yeah, + +00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:33.160 +It could be a good way of getting it all + +00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:35.420 +wrapped up together. And also, + +00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:38.400 +Mkron, if you ever looked at that versus + +00:17:40.800 --> 00:17:41.300 +Kron, Mkron is configured in Elisp. + +00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:43.740 +Then you can also write some custom functions + +00:17:44.620 --> 00:17:45.120 +in the middle of your Kron. + +00:17:46.800 --> 00:17:47.280 +So maybe you could make some like conditional + +00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:49.460 +things where you can start or stop it. + +00:17:56.320 --> 00:17:56.440 +And like 1 of the differences is if your + +00:17:58.860 --> 00:17:59.100 +computer reboots, it can start up and say, + +00:18:01.780 --> 00:18:02.160 +oh, I'm supposed to run this cron job at this + +00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.200 +time and then just Do the correct thing + +00:18:08.100 --> 00:18:08.600 +rather than losing the state Randomly because + +00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:10.940 +your computer lost power + +00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:15.900 +[Speaker 0]: Thanks for those recommendations I will add + +00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.140 +mcron to my list of things to check out. + +00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.020 +And yeah, we finally remembered to publish + +00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:25.400 +all those schedules as org, + +00:18:27.540 --> 00:18:27.840 +and I decided to just spam all the time zones + +00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:29.020 +with them, which was fantastic. + +00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:30.620 +And other people have mentioned that this is + +00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:32.960 +useful. We get to figure out how to use this + +00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:35.900 +to teach people more about what you can do + +00:18:36.620 --> 00:18:37.120 +with org. As you mentioned, + +00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:41.280 +encouraging them to tag the stuff with things + +00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:43.860 +that they want to attend gives us the ability + +00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:46.240 +to set up an agenda view for them that has + +00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:48.340 +the talks that are tagged with those tags. + +00:18:48.580 --> 00:18:48.600 +[Speaker 3]: So I + +00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:49.780 +[Speaker 0]: was like, okay, let's, + +00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:54.340 +let's teach org mode and lisp in the process + +00:18:58.120 --> 00:18:58.380 +of doing things. Okay, + +00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:01.000 +there was a question about any chance of an + +00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.220 +in person EmacsConf again someday. + +00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:06.000 +And I was actually at the very first EMAX + +00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:11.400 +Conf, which was 2013 and organized in London + +00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:13.080 +to take advantage of the fact that I had a + +00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.160 +business shift there. It was fantastic being + +00:19:18.760 --> 00:19:19.120 +in a room with 100 other people who are all + +00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:20.460 +really interested in Emacs, + +00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:23.560 +but I'm not traveling like any time for the + +00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:25.680 +foreseeable future, so if other people are + +00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:27.800 +interested in organizing something like that, + +00:19:29.260 --> 00:19:29.760 +I am totally happy to spread the word. + +00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:31.860 +It doesn't fit with my current lifestyle, + +00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360 +but it might fit somebody's. + +00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:37.580 +I don't know. We're still just here. + +00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:39.300 +And I like the virtual conference. + +00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:42.120 +I really like the fact that we can bring + +00:19:43.780 --> 00:19:44.280 +together people from all over the world. + +00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:46.840 +I can take a look at my schedule with all the + +00:19:47.540 --> 00:19:47.720 +time constraints. Okay, + +00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:49.300 +I need to put this person in the morning + +00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:50.800 +because they're in Australia and I need to + +00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:52.360 +put this person in the afternoon because + +00:19:56.120 --> 00:19:56.360 +they're from Vancouver or from somewhere else + +00:19:58.020 --> 00:19:58.520 +in the Pacific time zone. + +00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:01.920 +And it's just this breadth of people. + +00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:04.300 +But the other thing that I would love for + +00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:06.420 +people to start thinking about is if we could + +00:20:08.300 --> 00:20:08.560 +have a virtual conference in other time + +00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:11.580 +zones, so that's easier for people in Asia + +00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:13.220 +Pacific or Europe to attend. + +00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:16.580 +And as we're getting the hang of this, + +00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:18.080 +this crontab-based thing, + +00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:20.320 +I think we might almost be at the point where + +00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:22.540 +I can set it up to run even when I'm + +00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:25.080 +sleeping. And then other people can figure + +00:20:26.120 --> 00:20:26.520 +out, you know, the exception handling, + +00:20:27.780 --> 00:20:27.900 +oh, you know, this talk needs to be + +00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:30.780 +restarted. Okay, just play it again and scrub + +00:20:31.800 --> 00:20:32.300 +around to find the right part, + +00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:35.000 +which means we could have replays, + +00:20:37.060 --> 00:20:37.560 +or we can have like the Asia Pacific + +00:20:39.140 --> 00:20:39.440 +Alternate Event that we had the other time + +00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:45.780 +where some speakers came back online and did + +00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:49.040 +another Q&A session just for that kind of + +00:20:51.360 --> 00:20:51.660 +event. So those are other cool, + +00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:53.460 +fun things that would love to be, + +00:20:57.700 --> 00:20:58.140 +would be great. Satellite events, + +00:20:59.480 --> 00:20:59.980 +someone mentioned in the etherpad. + +00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:03.520 +Some people have been organizing these, + +00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:05.280 +which are great. Basically a bunch of people + +00:21:07.800 --> 00:21:08.080 +get together in a room or 2 rooms now because + +00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:10.820 +of the tracks and watch Emacs Conf together. + +00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:13.140 +So if you have a physical meetup or if you'd + +00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:15.760 +like to start 1, It's basically, + +00:21:17.860 --> 00:21:17.960 +you know, do this, maybe have stickers if you + +00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:20.200 +have stickers. You know, + +00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:22.800 +it's just have everyone come over and hang + +00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:24.680 +out and meet people. I don't know. + +00:21:27.540 --> 00:21:27.660 +It's a thing. Specifically how to do it, + +00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:29.700 +I have no idea how to organize these things. + +00:21:32.080 --> 00:21:32.580 +But Alain does. So talk to him. + +00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:35.580 +[Speaker 2]: Another way of adding multiple tracks is + +00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:38.140 +changing it to doing it like 2 times a year, + +00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:40.260 +in max confidence. + +00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:44.640 +[Speaker 0]: Yeah, yeah, people have mentioned something + +00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:50.320 +like that. Or the fact that org often has + +00:21:51.860 --> 00:21:52.280 +like a full day of talks by itself, + +00:21:53.800 --> 00:21:53.980 +and actually a little bit more than a day + +00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:55.640 +now, because I've been squeezing things into + +00:21:58.260 --> 00:21:58.760 +other tracks. There has been some potential + +00:22:00.060 --> 00:22:00.560 +interest in having an org conf. + +00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:03.480 +It could be a thing. And I'd love to see + +00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:06.240 +also, we'd love to experiment with other + +00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:09.240 +formats. So there could be a bug hunting + +00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:13.900 +session or let's use the breakout rooms to + +00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.120 +split up into little mentoring groups and see + +00:22:18.040 --> 00:22:18.240 +how that works. So lots of things that we can + +00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:21.760 +do. They've actually finished over in the Gen + +00:22:24.360 --> 00:22:24.620 +track so I don't know if people want to very + +00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:26.920 +quickly ask questions here or if we go there. + +00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:31.260 +Leo has come over here instead so okay he's + +00:22:32.560 --> 00:22:33.060 +joining over here on the other side. + +00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:36.180 +Okay, hello. + +00:22:38.060 --> 00:22:38.560 +[Speaker 3]: I + +00:22:43.260 --> 00:22:43.440 +[Speaker 1]: have 1 thing to add. Yeah, + +00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:46.720 +[Speaker 4]: No, no, no, I was just about to say I am not + +00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:48.680 +hosting anymore. You 2 do a wonderful job, + +00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:50.140 +and I'm happy to just watch. + +00:22:53.860 --> 00:22:54.000 +[Speaker 1]: go ahead. Cool. Yeah, I was going to add 1 + +00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:56.660 +quick note about any potential suggestions or + +00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:58.240 +recommendations for hosting Emacs on + +00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:00.240 +satellites. Is that, I mean, + +00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:02.300 +given that we are an event centered around + +00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:07.440 +Emacs, and Emacs is backed by the Free + +00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:09.320 +Software Foundation, if you do reach out to + +00:23:11.180 --> 00:23:11.680 +them, they're usually pretty helpful in terms + +00:23:14.340 --> 00:23:14.840 +of sending goodies and stickers and such. + +00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.040 +So yeah, if you give them a heads up and + +00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:18.400 +reach out to them in advance, + +00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.880 +you might well end up with a whole bunch of + +00:23:22.800 --> 00:23:23.000 +swag on your hands that you could give out + +00:23:24.860 --> 00:23:25.360 +during the satellite. So that's the thing. + +00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:36.000 +[Speaker 5]: Well, I just wanted to note it felt kind of + +00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:37.840 +even smoother. I mean, + +00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:40.160 +you guys always run a nice conference, + +00:23:43.180 --> 00:23:43.460 +but it felt smoother this year than ever + +00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:45.980 +before, which listening to your talk, + +00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:48.900 +Sasha, All the automation that you're doing + +00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:52.740 +is pretty incredible. So I think it's paying + +00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:53.240 +off. + +00:23:58.180 --> 00:23:58.320 +[Speaker 0]: Yay! You know, it is very amusing to hear the + +00:23:59.240 --> 00:23:59.440 +host say, okay, you know, + +00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:01.000 +but we've got to wrap up in the next 30 + +00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:03.040 +seconds because Sasha's contact is going to + +00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:03.740 +go yoink! + +00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:12.980 +[Speaker 5]: I have a person I work with who keeps the + +00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:15.860 +trains running on time shall we say and like + +00:24:18.940 --> 00:24:19.140 +cuts off every meeting like the second that + +00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:21.320 +it's supposed to end while somebody's in + +00:24:24.860 --> 00:24:25.080 +mid-sentence and I hope we don't get to that + +00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:25.880 +point here. + +00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:34.740 +[Speaker 0]: So do we have any more, + +00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:36.360 +[Speaker 4]: oh sorry I'm reverting to the hosting, + +00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:37.900 +Do we have any more questions for MaxConf? + +00:24:39.760 --> 00:24:39.960 +Although maybe we want to switch to the other + +00:24:41.580 --> 00:24:41.760 +room so that we don't struggle too much to + +00:24:44.340 --> 00:24:44.840 +find... Organize the stuff on BBB afterwards. + +00:24:46.360 --> 00:24:46.620 +[Speaker 0]: Oh, the recording. Well, + +00:24:48.340 --> 00:24:48.640 +this is a way to make sure the recording gets + +00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:54.640 +online. But we could do that too. + +00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:56.260 +I don't know. What do y'all think? + +00:25:00.580 --> 00:25:00.900 +[Speaker 4]: I'm personally fine. If we want to stay here + +00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.220 +right now, the development track is currently + +00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:05.780 +streaming this BBB room. + +00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:08.940 +So are we on Jen. So we're going to leave it + +00:25:10.760 --> 00:25:10.840 +at is and move into closing remarks if we + +00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:11.340 +want. + +00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.060 +[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, just, I guess, + +00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:17.920 +make sure that every 1 of the organizers are + +00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:21.060 +here. I see Flo here. Let's see, + +00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:23.860 +Corbyn, are you here? Can you maybe speak + +00:25:24.280 --> 00:25:24.780 +here on BBB? + +00:25:32.860 --> 00:25:33.000 +[Speaker 4]: We'll give some time for Corbyn to figure it + +00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:34.280 +out. He did figure it out eventually + +00:25:36.260 --> 00:25:36.420 +yesterday, so surely today will go + +00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:36.920 +swimmingly. + +00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:47.720 +Right. We're getting everything ready, + +00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:48.220 +folks. + +00:25:57.100 --> 00:25:57.600 +[Speaker 0]: Okay. So while we sort out Corwin, + +00:25:58.980 --> 00:25:59.280 +can someone tell him on mumble, + +00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:00.980 +I guess? Because I'm not sure if he's... + +00:26:05.060 --> 00:26:05.420 +Anyway. I also want to say that in the Emacs + +00:26:06.580 --> 00:26:06.740 +conference channel, people have been + +00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.060 +mentioning that the remote stuff has been + +00:26:10.840 --> 00:26:10.920 +working for them. And I really do like the + +00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:12.880 +way that this means we can have all the + +00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:14.480 +videos, you know, all prepared, + +00:26:16.020 --> 00:26:16.220 +they're captioned, you know, + +00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:17.580 +We can send them to people, + +00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:19.500 +we can post them on the website afterwards. + +00:26:21.540 --> 00:26:22.020 +We can bring all these people together who + +00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:23.880 +might not be able to convince their companies + +00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:25.680 +to fly them somewhere for an Emacs + +00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:29.760 +conference. And also I can do this kind of + +00:26:32.120 --> 00:26:32.620 +prep while having my now seven-year-old still + +00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:34.980 +be able to wander by and whatever. + +00:26:36.820 --> 00:26:37.320 +Travelling is really tough. + +00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:39.600 +So, this is fine. This is cool. + +00:26:40.760 --> 00:26:41.260 +I like this. We'll keep doing it. + +00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:44.740 +[Speaker 4]: It's definitely playing into the low-cost + +00:26:46.360 --> 00:26:46.820 +conference. To do it online, + +00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:48.400 +So many people can just access it very + +00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:54.220 +easily. All right, so we've messaged Colwyn. + +00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:56.040 +I guess we can get started with Dalim. + +00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:57.900 +It should maybe take a minute or 2 to join + +00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:01.640 +us. Should I get started with the Final words + +00:27:04.540 --> 00:27:04.900 +of the day? All right, + +00:27:05.740 --> 00:27:06.240 +cool. All right, folks, + +00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:08.440 +we made it. We are at the end of the second + +00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:10.820 +day of EmacsConf, the second of 2 days. + +00:27:12.620 --> 00:27:13.040 +And the first thing I want to say is first, + +00:27:15.360 --> 00:27:15.660 +thank you so much for joining us for this new + +00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:19.200 +edition. It's personally my fourth year doing + +00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:22.500 +the EmacsConf, but if you go to emacsconf-org + +00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:25.080 +and you see the different sessions, + +00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:27.660 +you will realize that the first 1 was in + +00:27:29.820 --> 00:27:30.300 +2013, which happens to be 10 years ago. + +00:27:33.340 --> 00:27:33.480 +So we are obviously very excited about all of + +00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:35.680 +this and we'll tell you perhaps a little more + +00:27:38.100 --> 00:27:38.300 +about what has changed over the last 10 + +00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:42.260 +years. As usual, you know the pre-recorded + +00:27:44.540 --> 00:27:44.800 +talks are available right now on the talk + +00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:46.800 +page, at least for all those which were + +00:27:48.620 --> 00:27:48.760 +pre-recorded. All the ones which happened on + +00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:50.320 +the Google button, it will take us a little + +00:27:52.360 --> 00:27:52.780 +bit of time to figure out how to, + +00:27:54.320 --> 00:27:54.820 +well, when to put them available. + +00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:56.880 +We need to do subtitles and all this jazzy + +00:27:59.060 --> 00:27:59.440 +stuff. And we'll also upload them to YouTube + +00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:02.000 +and other places once we check the audio, + +00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:03.200 +especially for the Q&As. + +00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:05.280 +We need to clean up some of the audios and + +00:28:08.300 --> 00:28:08.680 +make sure that we do not publish any personal + +00:28:13.040 --> 00:28:13.220 +stuff. All the live talks and Q&As will do + +00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:14.700 +this in the weeks to come. + +00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:16.800 +Usually, it takes us about 1 to 2 months to + +00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:17.640 +try to get everything out, + +00:28:18.280 --> 00:28:18.680 +but if it takes longer, + +00:28:19.540 --> 00:28:20.040 +it's fine. Eventually, + +00:28:20.900 --> 00:28:21.180 +everything will be there. + +00:28:23.360 --> 00:28:23.860 +The 1 thing we can say is that by EmacsConf + +00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:26.660 +2024, when it comes around, + +00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:28.840 +everything should have been uploaded at some + +00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:30.600 +point. So that's a wide window. + +00:28:34.340 --> 00:28:34.700 +So again, and as usual, + +00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:36.480 +feel free to spread the word about EmacsConf + +00:28:38.860 --> 00:28:38.940 +because, you know, we've been doing this for + +00:28:42.100 --> 00:28:42.280 +a while and every year more people show up to + +00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:44.440 +these events and more people watch the videos + +00:28:46.620 --> 00:28:47.120 +on YouTube and it's wonderful to see, + +00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:50.220 +you know, our main goal which is to get cool + +00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:51.900 +ideas out of the head of people, + +00:28:53.860 --> 00:28:54.280 +shared and viewed by so many people. + +00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:57.160 +It's always amazing. Also, + +00:28:58.180 --> 00:28:58.680 +I would like to ask you personally, + +00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:00.060 +what did you like about this conference? + +00:29:01.780 --> 00:29:01.980 +Or what do you like, what do you feel was + +00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:02.860 +better than last year, + +00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:05.840 +because the feedback is very useful to us. + +00:29:07.340 --> 00:29:07.540 +We'd also like to know if you've got any + +00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:09.440 +ideas for making things even better. + +00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:12.180 +And we've got a general conference discussion + +00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:14.400 +slash notes slash community message board, + +00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:15.420 +which is pad.emaxconf.org + +00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:19.640 +slash 2023. And you can also just mention + +00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:22.300 +them. You know, we might open this room for + +00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:24.520 +people to join us and chat, + +00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:25.960 +although Flowy and myself, + +00:29:27.340 --> 00:29:27.540 +your up team, needs to go to bed. + +00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:28.680 +So please be mindful of this. + +00:29:29.760 --> 00:29:30.160 +If you ask a very interesting question, + +00:29:32.260 --> 00:29:32.560 +We will both have to make sacrifices to stay + +00:29:34.300 --> 00:29:34.680 +a while longer because you're too damn + +00:29:38.620 --> 00:29:39.080 +interesting. Now we'd like to move into + +00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:41.500 +thanking all the people who make EmacsConf + +00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:43.080 +possible. And obviously, + +00:29:45.060 --> 00:29:45.560 +first, we have to thank all the speakers, + +00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:47.460 +all the volunteers, the participants, + +00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:50.240 +and to all those other people in our lives + +00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:51.820 +who make it possible through time and + +00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:54.060 +support, thank you so much for allowing us to + +00:29:55.760 --> 00:29:55.960 +run EmacsCount. It wouldn't happen without + +00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:57.440 +you, and without us, I suppose, + +00:29:58.540 --> 00:29:59.040 +because we are included in this. + +00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:02.220 +This year's conference hosts are myself, + +00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:03.900 +Leo Vivier, Amine Bendali, + +00:30:05.860 --> 00:30:06.100 +and joining our team of hosts for the first + +00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:07.540 +time this year, Flobby Coder. + +00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:08.360 +Thank you so much, Flobby. + +00:30:09.340 --> 00:30:09.840 +You did a wonderful job. + +00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:12.100 +It's right there. No, dammit. + +00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:15.360 +No, I can't. I can never remember if BBB is + +00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:17.360 +flipping stuff, so either 1 of those + +00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:20.020 +directions. The streams this year, + +00:30:21.760 --> 00:30:22.200 +as last year, were managed by Sasha Schwa, + +00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:24.820 +obviously. And the check-ins by Flobby Coder, + +00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:27.740 +and I'm in with Miscellaneous running around + +00:30:30.020 --> 00:30:30.520 +by Corwin Brust, who will be joining us + +00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:32.500 +momentarily. Apparently, + +00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:35.140 +all his USB failed, so he will be with us as + +00:30:38.140 --> 00:30:38.640 +[Speaker 3]: Roost. Rhymes with Roost. + +00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:41.380 +Do I have audio now? Alright, + +00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:42.800 +I'll go to work on my camera. + +00:30:43.820 --> 00:30:44.320 +Hi. Hello? + +00:30:45.540 --> 00:30:45.980 +[Speaker 4]: soon as he can. It's Lovely. + +00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.140 +Okay, I'll keep going. + +00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:49.460 +I also need to thank, well, + +00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:51.480 +need, no, I want to thank all the captioning + +00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:53.400 +volunteers, the captioners as we call them. + +00:30:54.380 --> 00:30:54.880 +You've got Daniel Molina, + +00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:57.660 +Bala Ramadoui, Durai, sorry, + +00:30:59.140 --> 00:30:59.640 +Bhavin Gandhi, Amin Zayed, + +00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:02.440 +Yoni Rapkin, who presented 1 of the talk + +00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:04.740 +earlier, Daniel Alejandro Tapia, + +00:31:06.060 --> 00:31:06.560 +Hannah Miller, Ken Huang, + +00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:07.700 +Jean-Christophe Ellary, + +00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:10.800 +and James Howell. Also thanking + +00:31:11.320 --> 00:31:11.760 +Jean-Christophe Ellary, + +00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:13.680 +Colwyn, Quiliro, Kern, + +00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:15.800 +and Amin Bendali for helping with the early + +00:31:18.120 --> 00:31:18.620 +acceptance process. Sasha, + +00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:21.600 +do I read this 1? It's weird to think myself. + +00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:23.080 +I'm gonna pat myself on the back, + +00:31:24.780 --> 00:31:25.280 +I guess. Go on, Sasha. + +00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:26.920 +I'll do it. I'll do it. + +00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:29.340 +It's fine. Thanks to myself for fiddling with + +00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:31.400 +the audio to get things nicely synced, + +00:31:34.120 --> 00:31:34.340 +And thanks to myself again and other people, + +00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:37.340 +we kept the mailing list free from spam. + +00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:39.440 +Because I'm not sure what happened since May, + +00:31:41.820 --> 00:31:42.180 +but we've been receiving about 3 to 4 spam + +00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:45.040 +emails. And it just happened all of a sudden, + +00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:46.900 +and I was really weirded out by this process. + +00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:51.880 +Where was I? OK, thanks to Andrew Ducurty for + +00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:53.500 +helping with whisper processing. + +00:31:55.840 --> 00:31:56.200 +Thanks to Ashki Ghekwad for design + +00:31:57.540 --> 00:31:58.040 +contribution. Thanks to Yoshin, + +00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:00.040 +our grand changro for all the music that + +00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:01.960 +we've been using for the last 3 years at this + +00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:04.840 +point, I think. Also thanks to Rye for the + +00:32:06.820 --> 00:32:07.020 +server that we're using for OBS streaming and + +00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:08.220 +for processing videos. + +00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:10.800 +And also thanks to the free software + +00:32:12.540 --> 00:32:13.040 +foundation for obviously Emacs itself, + +00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:14.840 +the mailing list that we use, + +00:32:15.340 --> 00:32:15.840 +and the media.emacsconf-org + +00:32:19.540 --> 00:32:19.780 +server where all of the presentations are + +00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:22.580 +currently hosted. We'd also like to thank + +00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:24.020 +BigBlueButton, Etherpad, + +00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:26.420 +IceCast, OBS, The Lounge, + +00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:28.980 +Libre.chat, FFmpeg, OpenAI, + +00:32:31.300 --> 00:32:31.800 +Whisper, the E-N-E-S force alignment tool, + +00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.000 +Site Transfer, SubD, and contributors to all + +00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:37.020 +of the tools and services we used in the + +00:32:37.600 --> 00:32:38.000 +making of this conference. + +00:32:39.520 --> 00:32:39.960 +And obviously, all of them are free, + +00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:41.880 +as Sasha obviously told you, + +00:32:44.080 --> 00:32:44.260 +and as we will be telling you again for many + +00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:48.060 +years to come. We'd also like again to thank + +00:32:49.780 --> 00:32:50.140 +everyone for attending the conference and + +00:32:51.820 --> 00:32:52.320 +making EmacsConf what it is. + +00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:54.280 +And for those who were on the general track, + +00:32:56.540 --> 00:32:56.720 +you know Sasha did it in parallel to the last + +00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.340 +talk we had today. She did a wonderful talk + +00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:02.180 +on how EmacsConf is actually run. + +00:33:05.620 --> 00:33:06.060 +So there's her talk, there's also an entire + +00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:08.260 +page on our wiki about the infrastructure + +00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:10.400 +that we use. So if you're interested, + +00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:12.380 +especially in running an event of your own, + +00:33:14.340 --> 00:33:14.540 +you've got as much information as you want, + +00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:15.940 +and as Sacha probably told you, + +00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:18.100 +we are available for sharing the knowledge + +00:33:20.820 --> 00:33:20.940 +and enabling your dreams of making a + +00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:24.340 +conference. Amint, do you want to take it + +00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.180 +over with the fiscal sponsorship + +00:33:29.320 --> 00:33:29.480 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, sure. Let's see. + +00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:31.480 +Can you please scroll down a little bit? + +00:33:33.520 --> 00:33:34.020 +Whoever is kindly sharing the screen. + +00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:34.960 +[Speaker 4]: announcements? Okay. Oh, + +00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:36.360 +I was scrolling on my end. + +00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:36.860 +Sorry. + +00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:41.780 +[Speaker 1]: Thanks, Sasha. Yeah, so kind of super excited + +00:33:43.080 --> 00:33:43.300 +to finally get into this. + +00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:45.300 +And this is something that we've been kind of + +00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:47.200 +hoping to get worked out for a long time + +00:33:48.280 --> 00:33:48.780 +actually and it's finally here. + +00:33:52.900 --> 00:33:53.140 +So people might have already seen this but as + +00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.120 +of this last Thursday we're actually fiscally + +00:33:59.440 --> 00:33:59.940 +sponsored by the Free Software Foundation. + +00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:03.740 +So we joined their Working Together for Free + +00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:07.840 +Software program. And DFSF published the + +00:34:08.540 --> 00:34:08.940 +announcement on their website. + +00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:11.500 +You're welcome to go and check it out there. + +00:34:14.060 --> 00:34:14.280 +But I just want to quickly get into a little + +00:34:17.900 --> 00:34:18.040 +bit about what it means and some of the + +00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:22.000 +benefits, I guess. So as part of this working + +00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:23.800 +together for a free software fund, + +00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:26.679 +the FSF provides fiscal sponsorship for a + +00:34:29.060 --> 00:34:29.320 +number of important free software and new + +00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:31.239 +technical projects, such as the new tool + +00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:33.840 +chain and Replicant, which is a free fork of + +00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:36.540 +Android. And starting this year, + +00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:38.800 +EmacsConf has joined the program as well. + +00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:41.440 +And as a fiscal sponsor, + +00:34:43.520 --> 00:34:44.020 +DFSF can assist us by providing services + +00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:46.940 +required by a legal entity, + +00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:49.460 +like signing contracts and receiving and + +00:34:53.080 --> 00:34:53.360 +processing payments. So to provide some + +00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:57.040 +context, eMAXConf is and always has been an + +00:34:58.740 --> 00:34:58.940 +independent initiative organized by a very + +00:34:59.700 --> 00:35:00.140 +small number of people, + +00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:02.560 +a small team of people without any corporate + +00:35:05.980 --> 00:35:06.220 +sponsors. And that's important in part + +00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:09.380 +because I believe part of our message is that + +00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:12.040 +we want to showcase that everybody can do + +00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:14.380 +this and organize a conference like this no + +00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:17.560 +matter how small your team is and how modest + +00:35:19.540 --> 00:35:19.900 +your resources are, which we will actually + +00:35:21.260 --> 00:35:21.560 +get into a little bit later in the closing + +00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:25.900 +remarks. But yeah, so now having the FSF as + +00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:28.020 +our fiscal sponsor, we're in a better + +00:35:30.200 --> 00:35:30.680 +position to accept donations as 1 potential + +00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:33.860 +way to contribute or help the conference. + +00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:36.860 +And just to clarify, we're currently not + +00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:39.520 +struggling at all to cover these costs of the + +00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:41.240 +servers and such, which we will get into + +00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:45.060 +again. But this is just 1 extra avenue if + +00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:46.880 +people are feeling generous and would like to + +00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.380 +help, it's much appreciated. + +00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:54.620 +And yeah, so having a 501c3 nonprofit like + +00:35:57.160 --> 00:35:57.660 +the FSF, as a fiscal sponsor, + +00:36:00.060 --> 00:36:00.340 +many donors will receive tax benefits that + +00:36:02.180 --> 00:36:02.360 +they otherwise wouldn't receive if they were + +00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:04.680 +to like donate to like individuals running a + +00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:07.720 +project directly. And also donors can know + +00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:09.140 +that, you know, the funds that they're + +00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:11.420 +donating are being handled by an accountable + +00:36:14.060 --> 00:36:14.540 +institution. And also importantly, + +00:36:16.020 --> 00:36:16.520 +when donating through the FSF, + +00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:20.460 +Let's see, text changing. + +00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:23.560 +Okay, yeah. People can donate without having + +00:36:24.600 --> 00:36:25.100 +to run any non-free JavaScript, + +00:36:27.380 --> 00:36:27.880 +which is nice. Because unfortunately, + +00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:29.540 +usually these days on the web when you do + +00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:30.880 +want to buy something or spend money, + +00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:32.340 +you have to run non-free JavaScript, + +00:36:35.020 --> 00:36:35.220 +which isn't the case when donating through + +00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:38.160 +the FSF. Yeah, so we just joined, + +00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:39.500 +as I said, on Thursday, + +00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:43.220 +and we've already received our very first + +00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:45.640 +donation, so we'd like to extend our thanks + +00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:47.300 +and gratitude to Scott Ranby, + +00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:49.980 +who is actually our first ever kind donor. + +00:36:51.820 --> 00:36:52.320 +They agreed to be thanked publicly. + +00:36:55.900 --> 00:36:56.200 +So thank you, Scott. And yeah, + +00:36:57.040 --> 00:36:57.540 +so this is a recent development. + +00:36:59.800 --> 00:36:59.980 +And we plan to add much more information and + +00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:02.020 +details about this whole situation to the + +00:37:04.200 --> 00:37:04.700 +wiki, including links to the announcements, + +00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:06.780 +some more information about the program, + +00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:08.540 +and our donation page of course, + +00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:13.140 +in the new future. And in the meantime I'm + +00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:15.240 +also happy to help answer any questions as + +00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:18.400 +best as I can, So feel free to ping me on IRC + +00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:20.140 +or just email me at bandalia.guinard.org. + +00:37:26.140 --> 00:37:26.640 +[Speaker 3]: Which gives me a chance to jump in and just + +00:37:29.060 --> 00:37:29.560 +point out 1 question that we know people have + +00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:32.960 +is just about how much of the money goes to + +00:37:35.660 --> 00:37:35.860 +FSF when you make a contribution through the + +00:37:36.860 --> 00:37:37.360 +fund toward EmacsConf? + +00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:40.760 +[Speaker 1]: Right, exactly. Yeah, and the answer to that + +00:37:44.540 --> 00:37:44.720 +is that it's 10%, which is for supporting the + +00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:46.960 +operation of the Working Together program and + +00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:49.300 +also the shared GNU infrastructure, + +00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:52.540 +which we as EmacsConf use and depend on, + +00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:55.420 +along with several hundred GNU packages. + +00:37:59.860 --> 00:38:00.060 +So, yeah, and it covers things like + +00:38:03.060 --> 00:38:03.480 +transaction costs that the FSF's payment + +00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:04.500 +processor charges? + +00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:10.240 +[Speaker 3]: And then again I'll come back to say this is + +00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:12.780 +a real fair price. I have some experience + +00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:15.540 +with working with payment processing and + +00:38:19.120 --> 00:38:19.440 +things like this and like 10% that's a that's + +00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:22.940 +something that you see in Bigger businesses + +00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:26.380 +that have a model around making money on that + +00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:29.280 +Transaction so to be able to do that as a + +00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:31.760 +nonprofit. We're taking advantage of a really + +00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:32.900 +awesome thing there. + +00:38:35.860 --> 00:38:36.060 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, exactly. And yeah, + +00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:37.120 +just for a quick plug, + +00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:39.060 +the FSF is actually doing an end of year + +00:38:41.780 --> 00:38:42.020 +fundraiser right now. So if you want to go + +00:38:44.220 --> 00:38:44.700 +donate to them, or if you donate to us, + +00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.260 +a part of it will go to the FSF to support + +00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:51.900 +their work on free software, + +00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:53.500 +helping grow the movement, + +00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:56.120 +and spread the word about it. + +00:39:02.080 --> 00:39:02.360 +So, thank you. And I guess now is a good time + +00:39:05.380 --> 00:39:05.800 +for me to pass the baton to the next + +00:39:08.160 --> 00:39:08.320 +organizer who wants to talk about some of the + +00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:11.540 +specs of the servers that we use right now. + +00:39:14.720 --> 00:39:14.860 +[Speaker 0]: We actually don't have to go about this in + +00:39:16.560 --> 00:39:16.840 +detail. I just put it in there in case people + +00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:19.540 +were curious about how much it takes to run + +00:39:20.740 --> 00:39:21.240 +something like this. Not a lot. + +00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:23.100 +It's just really, you know, + +00:39:26.100 --> 00:39:26.260 +2 days of computing is not that expensive in + +00:39:29.060 --> 00:39:29.480 +today's world, and all the rest is just + +00:39:32.220 --> 00:39:32.640 +volunteer time and a heck of a lot of Emacs + +00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:34.280 +lists as previously discussed in our + +00:39:41.020 --> 00:39:41.180 +presentation. So, we'll just skip through + +00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:42.440 +that instead of reading all of it. + +00:39:43.580 --> 00:39:43.840 +Unless people are specifically curious, + +00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:45.140 +you can ask questions afterwards. + +00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:46.820 +But yes, happy birthday, + +00:39:49.200 --> 00:39:49.440 +EmacsConf, and here's another wonderful 10 + +00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:49.940 +years. + +00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:57.040 +[Speaker 4]: All right, I think we are at the end of the + +00:39:58.820 --> 00:39:59.320 +closing remarks. Have I forgotten anything? + +00:40:00.060 --> 00:40:00.380 +We haven't had Flowy yet, + +00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:03.560 +I believe. Sorry for putting you on the spot + +00:40:03.560 --> 00:40:04.060 +again. + +00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:08.400 +[Speaker 6]: I guess I have nothing really to say besides + +00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:09.780 +what you have already said. + +00:40:12.560 --> 00:40:13.060 +So thank everybody to make a presentation, + +00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:15.640 +to do anything here. Thanks for all of you + +00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:17.080 +that I could be a part of it. + +00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.380 +I have to admit it also. + +00:40:21.020 --> 00:40:21.520 +So thank you all. And yeah, + +00:40:22.540 --> 00:40:23.040 +nothing to say probably. + +00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:25.840 +[Speaker 1]: And I also want to send the thanks to Flowy + +00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:27.380 +for, you know, stepping in. + +00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:29.480 +We kind of like throw this on you like at the + +00:40:31.560 --> 00:40:31.720 +last second, but Flowy actually stepped in + +00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:34.160 +and hosted graciously a couple of the talks + +00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:35.140 +on the Dev track today. + +00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:37.200 +So, which I think went very well. + +00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:38.980 +So congrats and thank you. + +00:40:39.720 --> 00:40:40.220 +[Speaker 6]: Thank you. + +00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:41.920 +[Speaker 4]: Speaking of which we were not monsters. + +00:40:43.420 --> 00:40:43.660 +We kindly asked Floey yesterday because + +00:40:44.540 --> 00:40:44.760 +everything was going so well. + +00:40:45.520 --> 00:40:45.600 +And now we can say it, + +00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:47.240 +you know, I can say things are going well. + +00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:48.880 +Usually it's a bad thing when you're doing a + +00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:50.740 +broadcast to say things are going well right + +00:40:53.080 --> 00:40:53.300 +now because it tends to backfires at some + +00:40:56.980 --> 00:40:57.480 +[Speaker 3]: Hours of notice, hours of notice. + +00:40:58.900 --> 00:40:59.400 +That, that's planning. + +00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:02.920 +[Speaker 4]: point. But yesterday- So hours of notice, + +00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:05.340 +Flowy didn't sleep all that much because we + +00:41:06.500 --> 00:41:06.980 +tasked him with hosting, + +00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:08.720 +so he was turning in his bed all night + +00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.460 +thinking, oh, I'm going to host MaxCons. + +00:41:13.660 --> 00:41:13.860 +But Flowy, you did a wonderful job and I am + +00:41:15.720 --> 00:41:15.940 +so glad that not only you were able to join + +00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:17.900 +us again this year, but that also you were + +00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:20.140 +able to host. Because last year, + +00:41:20.900 --> 00:41:21.140 +had we asked you to host, + +00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:22.320 +you would have said no. + +00:41:25.120 --> 00:41:25.580 +First time we asked you this year was yes, + +00:41:27.100 --> 00:41:27.600 +but give me some time to think about it. + +00:41:30.100 --> 00:41:30.600 +[Speaker 6]: Next year it is yes completely. + +00:41:32.780 --> 00:41:32.940 +[Speaker 4]: If we've done a good job, + +00:41:33.560 --> 00:41:34.060 +it will be yes directly. + +00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.080 +All right, so since we are at the end of the + +00:41:41.140 --> 00:41:41.320 +thankings and I did say europe team needs to + +00:41:43.580 --> 00:41:43.700 +go to bed in about 12 minutes that leaves us + +00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:46.440 +about 12 minutes to try to answer as many + +00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:48.340 +points as you'd like to raise. + +00:41:50.640 --> 00:41:50.940 +Sasha, I think the Q&A room is still open + +00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:53.100 +because we are technically still in the Emacs + +00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:54.020 +conference room currently. + +00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:56.660 +So, if you... We're going to put the link + +00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.000 +again if you need to find it. + +00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:00.300 +Otherwise, scroll up and find the 1 on there. + +00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:04.900 +[Speaker 0]: I think I can change the redirect. + +00:42:07.240 --> 00:42:07.740 +Maybe. I will go figure this out. + +00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:09.100 +Keep talking in the background. + +00:42:12.160 --> 00:42:12.280 +[Speaker 4]: Right. So, whilst we figure this out in the + +00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:13.860 +background, it would be nice if you could + +00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:15.040 +join us and ask questions, + +00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:16.020 +either by dropping them. + +00:42:18.080 --> 00:42:18.340 +I see plenty of people have already left some + +00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:19.840 +comments. We have 2 places, + +00:42:21.820 --> 00:42:22.240 +right now it's more about a chitchatting + +00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:23.360 +about the end of the conference. + +00:42:24.160 --> 00:42:24.660 +If you've got general feedback, + +00:42:26.160 --> 00:42:26.400 +we've mentioned it at the top, + +00:42:28.580 --> 00:42:28.780 +but if you want to write your general + +00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:31.080 +feedback here, it will find its way at some + +00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:33.160 +point in the years of the relevant people who + +00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:34.280 +can make things change. + +00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.040 +So don't worry too much about where you put + +00:42:37.120 --> 00:42:37.540 +your feedback, it'll be fine. + +00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:40.440 +But now, how about we start reading some of + +00:42:42.700 --> 00:42:43.080 +the notes that people have said or questions + +00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:43.260 +that + +00:42:47.094 --> 00:42:47.151 +[Speaker 3]: have been asked. So here's 1 for Amin. + +00:42:48.460 --> 00:42:48.820 +Do you have any stats on how many people + +00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:52.700 +watched for an IRC and BBB over the 2 days? + +00:42:58.140 --> 00:42:58.620 +[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, so I guess for IceCast, + +00:43:00.040 --> 00:43:00.540 +which I can answer more readily, + +00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:04.260 +I think yesterday we were averaging around + +00:43:08.120 --> 00:43:08.620 +240, 250 concurrent viewers at a time. + +00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:13.260 +And today, so today it varied. + +00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:16.740 +I think the maximum was again like around 200 + +00:43:19.600 --> 00:43:19.820 +to 20-ish with the average being more around + +00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:25.460 +180, 190 viewers. We've had a lot of hits to + +00:43:28.700 --> 00:43:29.180 +the actual web pages for the Emacs Conf Wiki + +00:43:31.720 --> 00:43:31.960 +or the pad, which are all being served on 1 + +00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:35.140 +server. I pulled some numbers. + +00:43:36.140 --> 00:43:36.640 +I'm not sure if they're correct. + +00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:38.900 +So I'm like a little bit hesitant to discuss + +00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:41.980 +them. Safe to say they're easily in the tens + +00:43:44.380 --> 00:43:44.580 +of thousands, maybe in the hundreds of + +00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:48.420 +thousands of total visits over the past, + +00:43:52.540 --> 00:43:53.040 +[Speaker 0]: Maybe the pad makes a lot of small requests. + +00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:54.400 +[Speaker 1]: I guess, 48 hours. Right, + +00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:57.200 +okay. So, yeah, that's why I'm hesitant to + +00:43:59.240 --> 00:43:59.380 +say. But yeah, easily in the thousands or + +00:44:01.860 --> 00:44:02.020 +[Speaker 3]: You know + +00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:03.260 +[Speaker 4]: who you are anyway, the crowd, + +00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:04.240 +you know how many you are, + +00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:05.840 +you do not need exact numbers + +00:44:08.720 --> 00:44:09.220 +[Speaker 1]: tens of thousands. Yeah, + +00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:11.200 +so I don't have the exact numbers but I guess + +00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:13.460 +it's always kind of fun to maybe try to pull + +00:44:15.700 --> 00:44:15.840 +some numbers and look at it that way but you + +00:44:18.080 --> 00:44:18.580 +know of course we all know that what we do, + +00:44:19.720 --> 00:44:20.220 +every single person counts. + +00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:24.660 +So I don't know, trying to look at turning + +00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:28.400 +people into abstract numbers isn't, + +00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.820 +I don't know, inspiring to me very much, + +00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:32.340 +but it's cool. So. + +00:44:36.020 --> 00:44:36.140 +[Speaker 4]: All right. So how about we go into the + +00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:38.140 +questions. So Sasha is now in the viewport + +00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:39.780 +where we can see some questions. + +00:44:41.200 --> 00:44:41.700 +So how about we take some of them. + +00:44:43.900 --> 00:44:44.060 +I can read them or if anyone of the + +00:44:45.020 --> 00:44:45.520 +organizers wants to do this, + +00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:47.040 +feel free, especially those who haven't + +00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:48.540 +talked to a whole lot this year. + +00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:53.480 +Cohen, do you want to try it? + +00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:55.260 +[Speaker 3]: I didn't make my motive clear. + +00:44:59.220 --> 00:44:59.500 +I did and I'm done. I took the first + +00:45:01.120 --> 00:45:01.320 +question, I picked the bottom question off + +00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:03.120 +the list because I knew exactly who it was + +00:45:05.140 --> 00:45:05.500 +going for. The person who wants to answer or + +00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:07.580 +direct the next question is welcome. + +00:45:10.520 --> 00:45:10.760 +Sorry, I could have given a little better + +00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:11.680 +stage direction there. + +00:45:13.660 --> 00:45:14.160 +I'm not prepared to answer how many emaxers + +00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:16.560 +are from Nordic countries other than to say + +00:45:17.680 --> 00:45:18.180 +definitely yes and several. + +00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:22.080 +And I haven't looked close enough at the + +00:45:22.580 --> 00:45:23.080 +suggestion yet. + +00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:27.720 +[Speaker 4]: Right, okay. I can take the question about + +00:45:30.020 --> 00:45:30.060 +the BBB limitations. So it's the second 1, + +00:45:31.560 --> 00:45:32.060 +the red 1. Small suggestion, + +00:45:33.120 --> 00:45:33.520 +likely out of your control, + +00:45:36.340 --> 00:45:36.660 +but anyway, the blue button seems to work + +00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:38.560 +very well, but it would be a bit more + +00:45:40.680 --> 00:45:40.840 +watchable if the webcam frames were lined up + +00:45:42.660 --> 00:45:42.920 +vertically on 1 side, because it would allow + +00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:44.920 +the screen share frames to be larger and + +00:45:47.080 --> 00:45:47.560 +would make much better use of the viewable + +00:45:49.740 --> 00:45:50.240 +space. Maybe worth a bug report to upstream. + +00:45:53.080 --> 00:45:53.420 +And I agree, BBB has been really good. + +00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900 +Amine, did you want to say something? + +00:45:55.120 --> 00:45:55.240 +[Speaker 3]: I'm going + +00:45:56.760 --> 00:45:56.880 +[Speaker 1]: to continue and then I'll add something at + +00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.460 +the end. + +00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:00.100 +[Speaker 4]: Okay, sure. So BBB has been really good for + +00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:04.940 +us. It allows us to have many parallel rooms + +00:46:07.700 --> 00:46:07.800 +which are all recording service side at the + +00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:10.120 +same time. And it's wonderful for us because + +00:46:11.260 --> 00:46:11.580 +we can gather. At some point, + +00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:13.820 +I think last year, we had 4 concurrent talks + +00:46:15.220 --> 00:46:15.360 +being recorded because people were just so + +00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:17.540 +interested in what was going on in rooms. + +00:46:19.040 --> 00:46:19.540 +And you know, we only, + +00:46:21.660 --> 00:46:22.160 +like this year, the co-organizers, + +00:46:23.720 --> 00:46:23.940 +it's the 5 people you see in a room + +00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:26.880 +currently. And if we had all of us to be in a + +00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:28.580 +separate room, having to record on the + +00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:29.640 +machine, it wouldn't work. + +00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:32.280 +So we are able to demultiply the amount of + +00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:34.060 +content that we produce thanks to BBB, + +00:46:37.540 --> 00:46:37.700 +but sadly, we are also quite limited by the + +00:46:39.560 --> 00:46:39.720 +interface of BBB. Another problem that is + +00:46:43.860 --> 00:46:44.360 +dear to me is that audio tends to be fairly + +00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:46.740 +bad at some points depending on the speakers + +00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:50.580 +because BBB has really funky audio correction + +00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:51.820 +stuff going in the background, + +00:46:52.540 --> 00:46:52.900 +and sometimes it works, + +00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.260 +sometimes it doesn't work, + +00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:55.980 +and especially on my machine, + +00:46:58.320 --> 00:46:58.480 +the specs are above in the document if you're + +00:47:02.040 --> 00:47:02.220 +interested, but BBB and OBS do not play well + +00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:04.820 +at all. You might have heard me speaking with + +00:47:06.120 --> 00:47:06.500 +some clicks in my voice at some point. + +00:47:07.600 --> 00:47:08.100 +That's another problem of BBB. + +00:47:09.240 --> 00:47:09.520 +Anyway, I mean, you wanted to add something + +00:47:09.720 --> 00:47:10.220 +as well. + +00:47:14.060 --> 00:47:14.340 +[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, I kind of empathize and also + +00:47:17.220 --> 00:47:17.640 +emphasize the problems with audio on BBB + +00:47:19.860 --> 00:47:20.360 +sometimes, but about the specific suggestion + +00:47:22.540 --> 00:47:22.760 +here of like lighting things up at least + +00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:24.960 +visually, I think that's like much more + +00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:27.440 +doable even if you don't open a bug upstream. + +00:47:30.140 --> 00:47:30.520 +I believe the Free Software Foundation for + +00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:31.860 +their LibrePlanet conference, + +00:47:33.740 --> 00:47:34.200 +either last year or the year before, + +00:47:36.500 --> 00:47:36.760 +they had some custom, like clients signed + +00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:38.500 +into browser, custom CSS, + +00:47:40.520 --> 00:47:40.720 +where it would do exactly something like + +00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:44.820 +that. It would like enlarge the shared screen + +00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:47.000 +on the 1 side and then stack up all of the + +00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:48.280 +webcam feeds on 1 side. + +00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:50.440 +So we might be able to use something like + +00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:50.940 +that. + +00:47:53.040 --> 00:47:53.540 +[Speaker 3]: So I'll tack on to that. + +00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:56.880 +And now I feel like a heel as soon as I + +00:47:59.340 --> 00:47:59.500 +opened my mouth, because I think I almost get + +00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:01.720 +the sense Floyd wants to jump in here and + +00:48:03.680 --> 00:48:03.840 +we're all talking, everyone except Sasha who + +00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:06.660 +actually wrote OBS, you know, + +00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:10.920 +the OBS WebSocket plugin that is probably the + +00:48:12.100 --> 00:48:12.600 +answer to all the different questions + +00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:13.480 +everyone is bringing up. + +00:48:15.060 --> 00:48:15.420 +So I guess I'll leave my input at that And + +00:48:16.680 --> 00:48:16.800 +Chloe, did you have anything to say, + +00:48:17.720 --> 00:48:18.220 +or can we pick on Sasha? + +00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:20.960 +[Speaker 6]: Nothing to say. + +00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:25.320 +[Speaker 0]: I need to update the OBS WebSocket plugin for + +00:48:27.260 --> 00:48:27.440 +the protocol change, because I think the + +00:48:29.040 --> 00:48:29.540 +protocol change was from 4 to 5. + +00:48:32.080 --> 00:48:32.300 +It's 1 of those things that I haven't gotten + +00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:35.580 +[Speaker 1]: Cool. But + +00:48:37.120 --> 00:48:37.280 +[Speaker 0]: around to. yeah, so we'll try to solve it in + +00:48:41.240 --> 00:48:41.380 +CSS. So if I can tinker with the CSS or if + +00:48:44.160 --> 00:48:44.380 +somebody else would like to volunteer to move + +00:48:45.720 --> 00:48:46.220 +things around, then that would be fantastic + +00:48:48.040 --> 00:48:48.540 +because front-end should be things. + +00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:53.600 +Okay, oh, what order of magnitude hours do + +00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:55.520 +you each of you think you devote to the + +00:48:58.260 --> 00:48:58.580 +conference yearly? I have I expected someone + +00:48:59.540 --> 00:49:00.040 +would ask this question. + +00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:08.120 +So I have I have my the past 11 years of time + +00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:11.400 +analysis. This is my Emacs category, + +00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:13.280 +so it also includes Emacs news. + +00:49:15.660 --> 00:49:16.160 +So this is my Emacs hours by month and year. + +00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:18.420 +So you can see last year, + +00:49:21.140 --> 00:49:21.640 +it spiked up a lot. But this year, + +00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:23.440 +it has taken less time. + +00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:26.760 +So last month, it was about 93 hours. + +00:49:29.020 --> 00:49:29.520 +And the month before that was just about 87 + +00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:31.880 +hours of prep. And this actually includes + +00:49:33.240 --> 00:49:33.740 +things like captioning and, + +00:49:36.260 --> 00:49:36.340 +and coordination. And then you can see a + +00:49:38.560 --> 00:49:38.940 +little bit of time here like the EMAX news + +00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:42.440 +and and harvesting q&a and adding chapter + +00:49:43.780 --> 00:49:44.280 +index indices and things like that. + +00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:48.460 +So I, I like it, it's it's my form of fun. + +00:49:50.540 --> 00:49:50.640 +And Otherwise, I'm mostly just, + +00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:53.460 +you know, helping the kiddo go to play dates + +00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:54.820 +and carrying things around. + +00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:57.500 +And, you know, so this is the stuff that I do + +00:49:58.260 --> 00:49:58.760 +to keep my brain happy. + +00:50:00.060 --> 00:50:00.320 +And if you're wondering, + +00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:01.860 +okay, well, do you sleep? + +00:50:03.520 --> 00:50:03.820 +That's the next question I expected people + +00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:05.060 +ask. The answer is yes, + +00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:06.660 +we still actually do manage to sleep, + +00:50:09.640 --> 00:50:09.800 +or at least I do. Less so now that I have a + +00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:11.260 +kid, this is like 2016, + +00:50:13.100 --> 00:50:13.260 +had a kiddo, and then suddenly much less + +00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:14.800 +sleep, but still a reasonable amount of + +00:50:16.780 --> 00:50:17.280 +sleep. So Emacs stuff happens, + +00:50:19.600 --> 00:50:20.100 +I can still sleep, and it's a lot of fun. + +00:50:23.260 --> 00:50:23.760 +[Speaker 4]: Now that's data for you folks. + +00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:27.460 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, we can't top that at all. + +00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:30.820 +[Speaker 0]: It's a blog post also, + +00:50:30.820 --> 00:50:31.320 +yeah. + +00:50:33.160 --> 00:50:33.340 +[Speaker 4]: Especially, you start like this, + +00:50:36.540 --> 00:50:37.040 +how do you expect all of us to say anything + +00:50:38.680 --> 00:50:38.740 +after this? Whatever we say is not going to + +00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:40.680 +be backed up by data, it's not going to be as + +00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:42.520 +many hours, and it's not going to be as + +00:50:43.180 --> 00:50:43.680 +qualitative in general. + +00:50:53.640 --> 00:50:53.900 +I can remark on something because for me it's + +00:50:56.040 --> 00:50:56.540 +my fourth year helping to organize EmacsConf + +00:50:59.280 --> 00:50:59.780 +and there's a definite change this year. + +00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:02.980 +I did spend, usually I get into EmacsConf + +00:51:05.640 --> 00:51:06.040 +mode in late September when I start worrying + +00:51:07.900 --> 00:51:08.080 +about the CFP, the call for proposal is + +00:51:09.720 --> 00:51:10.080 +finishing, and then we need to start running + +00:51:12.580 --> 00:51:12.780 +after speakers to secure the proposals to + +00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:14.360 +make sure, oh, can you do this? + +00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:16.680 +Can you do maybe a 10-minute format instead + +00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:17.560 +of a 20-minute format, + +00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:19.260 +you know, all this jazzy stuff. + +00:51:21.820 --> 00:51:22.020 +And usually it kind of looks like Sasha for + +00:51:22.940 --> 00:51:23.400 +me in terms of involvement, + +00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:25.400 +or at least it did for the previous year. + +00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:29.300 +But this year, now that I've been gainfully + +00:51:30.220 --> 00:51:30.720 +employed as a software developer, + +00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:33.900 +I found it much harder to find the time to + +00:51:36.500 --> 00:51:36.660 +invest into MaxComp. But 1 of the things that + +00:51:39.520 --> 00:51:39.800 +allowed me to still stay efficient at my day + +00:51:42.100 --> 00:51:42.260 +job is the fact that I knew that Sasha and + +00:51:43.680 --> 00:51:44.180 +all the work that we did in previous years + +00:51:46.240 --> 00:51:46.560 +would come to help us organize this year's + +00:51:48.160 --> 00:51:48.560 +conference. And I'm not kidding, + +00:51:49.900 --> 00:51:50.140 +this year, I've been keeping an eye, + +00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:51.480 +obviously, and we've been chatting with all + +00:51:53.860 --> 00:51:54.340 +the organizers, but it's mostly been Sasha + +00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:57.080 +holding the fort from the end of the CFP in + +00:52:00.060 --> 00:52:00.560 +September to right about end of November. + +00:52:02.220 --> 00:52:02.720 +So I'll use the opportunity, + +00:52:04.780 --> 00:52:05.160 +as well my fellow co-organizers will, + +00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:07.480 +to thank you Sasha for putting so much time + +00:52:09.720 --> 00:52:09.900 +and energy into this. Not only Sasha from + +00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:11.920 +this year, but also Sasha from last year, + +00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:13.340 +and last year, and last year. + +00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:20.160 +And I will not be able to give you a figure + +00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:21.000 +of how much time it takes. + +00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:23.220 +I can tell you that the 2 days of Emacs Con + +00:52:28.180 --> 00:52:28.380 +are a bloody marathon because we cannot share + +00:52:31.060 --> 00:52:31.220 +our screens with you, but Sasha has given you + +00:52:32.220 --> 00:52:32.580 +a little bit of pointers about, + +00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:34.580 +you know, how much stuff we need to monitor. + +00:52:36.560 --> 00:52:36.820 +Sasha just switches constantly between + +00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:39.320 +workspaces. I just put everything on 1 + +00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:41.900 +workspace and my screen looks absolutely + +00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:44.920 +mental. And then I wonder why my microphone + +00:52:46.020 --> 00:52:46.520 +is clipping on BVB, I suppose. + +00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:47.540 +All right, that's all for me. + +00:52:48.900 --> 00:52:49.040 +Anyone wants to say anything about how much + +00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.420 +time it takes? Sasha, please. + +00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:53.000 +[Speaker 0]: I have a nice setup this year because I + +00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:55.960 +actually have a Matthew Lent donated a + +00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:57.660 +computer to me that can handle the big + +00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:00.420 +monitor and I'm stealing my husband's big + +00:53:01.100 --> 00:53:01.280 +monitor over there. See, + +00:53:02.240 --> 00:53:02.740 +So this is my setup today. + +00:53:05.600 --> 00:53:06.020 +It's got like conference stuff on my laptop + +00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:09.240 +and then just IOC on the other big screen and + +00:53:10.640 --> 00:53:11.000 +the 480p so I can see, + +00:53:12.340 --> 00:53:12.840 +I can make sure it doesn't fall down. + +00:53:14.900 --> 00:53:15.400 +Yes, so I have a nice setup today. + +00:53:22.260 --> 00:53:22.400 +[Speaker 4]: Anyone wants to comment about how much time + +00:53:24.160 --> 00:53:24.360 +it takes for them to organize the MaxCon for + +00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:25.940 +2, you know, including everything, + +00:53:26.580 --> 00:53:27.080 +be it the brainstorming, + +00:53:28.940 --> 00:53:29.440 +the answering volunteers and stuff like this? + +00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:31.640 +Or we can move to another question, + +00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.300 +of course. + +00:53:34.600 --> 00:53:34.960 +[Speaker 1]: I mean, I know for myself, + +00:53:36.180 --> 00:53:36.580 +I kind of dropped the ball this year, + +00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:39.440 +somewhat unintentionally or unintentionally. + +00:53:41.640 --> 00:53:42.040 +Well, yeah, I didn't have any other choice, + +00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:44.780 +basically, at least in like September through + +00:53:46.940 --> 00:53:47.440 +like early November or mid November. + +00:53:51.100 --> 00:53:51.500 +But I think like, it sort of differs, + +00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:52.820 +I guess, from year to year. + +00:53:53.520 --> 00:53:54.020 +Sometimes life happens, + +00:53:57.900 --> 00:53:58.400 +and no matter how much you would love to put + +00:53:59.540 --> 00:53:59.880 +a ton of time into something, + +00:54:01.620 --> 00:54:01.820 +you just can't. And maybe next year you can + +00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:04.540 +do a lot more. So I'm optimistic I'll be able + +00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:07.260 +to put in much more time into things for + +00:54:09.580 --> 00:54:10.080 +EmacsConf next year, but that's just me. + +00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:12.560 +[Speaker 4]: I just want to say something before Robin + +00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:14.400 +drops in. Sasha, go please first. + +00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:19.120 +[Speaker 0]: And I think people shouldn't like feel bad + +00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:20.780 +about having those. I think designing + +00:54:24.120 --> 00:54:24.280 +conference systems or processes so that they + +00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:27.300 +can take advantage of little pockets of time + +00:54:30.460 --> 00:54:30.680 +is the way to go. I love the fact that we now + +00:54:33.200 --> 00:54:33.360 +have a system where hosts can show up on the + +00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:35.680 +day of and just rock it, + +00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:37.380 +right? So this is great. + +00:54:41.580 --> 00:54:42.080 +It is good that we can get by with less time + +00:54:43.940 --> 00:54:44.120 +throughout the process and just take + +00:54:45.660 --> 00:54:46.160 +advantage of whatever time people have. + +00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:47.180 +Whether it's, you know, + +00:54:49.120 --> 00:54:49.280 +they've got 2 hours, they want to caption a + +00:54:51.560 --> 00:54:52.040 +talk, that sort of stuff is already totally + +00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540 +awesome. + +00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:57.980 +[Speaker 3]: And yeah, you both, thank you. + +00:55:00.820 --> 00:55:01.020 +Yeah, you both stole my Thunder and then put + +00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:04.120 +a quarterback in me. I couldn't agree more + +00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:05.280 +with everything you said. + +00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:09.220 +That's something that just typifies what is + +00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:10.860 +amazing about this conference, + +00:55:12.340 --> 00:55:12.840 +right? It's a kind of accessibility, + +00:55:17.120 --> 00:55:17.500 +isn't it? Having some work I can give you + +00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:19.880 +that helps you give back to your community + +00:55:21.340 --> 00:55:21.840 +that is at your level, + +00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:23.800 +that fits your time budget, + +00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:27.120 +that is something that you're willing to go + +00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:28.780 +care about because it intersects, + +00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:31.780 +you know, the world you live in in some + +00:55:34.240 --> 00:55:34.540 +practical way and therefore you can make time + +00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:37.860 +for it. We all live in a lot of different + +00:55:40.520 --> 00:55:40.600 +trenches and making them intersect is 1 of + +00:55:42.500 --> 00:55:43.000 +the things Emacs does in a technical way + +00:55:43.820 --> 00:55:44.020 +[Speaker 5]: and + +00:55:47.260 --> 00:55:47.580 +[Speaker 3]: through this conference at least in a very + +00:55:51.100 --> 00:55:51.340 +community way. Okay, and it brings me back + +00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:52.680 +also on the OBS front. + +00:55:54.080 --> 00:55:54.240 +And I think that's what really excited me + +00:55:56.260 --> 00:55:56.580 +too. When I think about the potential that's + +00:55:59.440 --> 00:55:59.940 +out there and getting a bunch of people + +00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:02.080 +looking at the work you've already done with + +00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:04.440 +OBS WebSocket and thinking about, + +00:56:06.660 --> 00:56:06.960 +you know, oh, we want more timers that count + +00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.340 +things down and we want each organizer to be + +00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:11.040 +able to have a little palette of them, + +00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:12.940 +some of which are gonna be handed to you by + +00:56:14.620 --> 00:56:14.760 +the conference director and some of which you + +00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:17.240 +can add yourself because they help you and + +00:56:19.600 --> 00:56:20.020 +that's right. And, you know, + +00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:22.120 +have, you know, keeping things really fast + +00:56:24.120 --> 00:56:24.620 +and loose so we can make the artistic + +00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:27.340 +decisions on the fly that make our conference + +00:56:30.340 --> 00:56:30.840 +what it is, but then making, + +00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:33.740 +you know, a simple automated tool chain that + +00:56:36.380 --> 00:56:36.560 +anyone can learn and that we know how to + +00:56:37.700 --> 00:56:38.200 +execute the steps of manually. + +00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:41.280 +That's the actual design pattern that you've + +00:56:42.980 --> 00:56:43.480 +implemented here that's working so well. + +00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:47.580 +So the + +00:56:50.080 --> 00:56:50.540 +[Speaker 4]: 1 thing I wanted to ask about Amin saying, + +00:56:51.600 --> 00:56:52.100 +oh, I've dropped the ball this year. + +00:56:53.600 --> 00:56:53.940 +Amin's, just to be clear with everyone, + +00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:55.520 +Amin's definition of dropping the ball is + +00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:57.360 +securing a sponsorship with the FSF. + +00:56:58.680 --> 00:56:59.180 +So that's dropping the ball for you. + +00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:02.720 +[Speaker 3]: Well attending a weekly meeting, + +00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:04.640 +We take 1 week off a month where we + +00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:08.720 +coordinate infrastructure issues between this + +00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:13.440 +and other FSF supported projects using quote + +00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:14.820 +unquote GNU infrastructure. + +00:57:16.860 --> 00:57:17.360 +That's kind of a, GNU is really an umbrella + +00:57:19.220 --> 00:57:19.720 +term once you get kind of close to it. + +00:57:22.220 --> 00:57:22.400 +You know, it's like GNU is all of the + +00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:25.240 +volunteers helping with this vision we have + +00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:26.340 +of user rights. + +00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:31.560 +[Speaker 4]: 1 last thing I wanted to add about how much + +00:57:32.220 --> 00:57:32.480 +time we spend on this. + +00:57:33.900 --> 00:57:34.400 +It's just the fact that we've experimented + +00:57:36.180 --> 00:57:36.380 +over the 4 years I've been part of this. + +00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:38.760 +You know, the first year we had so many + +00:57:40.720 --> 00:57:40.840 +meetings because we thought this would be the + +00:57:42.640 --> 00:57:42.800 +way to know 1 another and this would be the + +00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:44.780 +way to create qualitative notes. + +00:57:46.520 --> 00:57:46.560 +And we've come back to this. + +00:57:48.180 --> 00:57:48.340 +[Speaker 3]: That is what I saw. I can't help but + +00:57:49.940 --> 00:57:50.440 +interrupt you again. This is all I do. + +00:57:52.080 --> 00:57:52.580 +Leo This is why I keep off the microphone + +00:57:54.060 --> 00:57:54.440 +until the last 20 minutes of the conference + +00:57:56.580 --> 00:57:56.760 +once everybody already wants to hang up Then + +00:57:58.940 --> 00:57:59.080 +I know you'll be honest with me But I have to + +00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:02.240 +say when I looked at that table of data all I + +00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:05.440 +saw was 200 hours of Sasha's life that she + +00:58:06.940 --> 00:58:07.240 +spent talking to the, you know, + +00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:08.680 +all many of us were involved. + +00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:11.320 +It's not just the 4 or 5 of us that, + +00:58:13.160 --> 00:58:13.460 +you know, that have done this last 2 years + +00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:14.940 +convention, right? It's, + +00:58:17.120 --> 00:58:17.260 +you know, there's been many people that have + +00:58:19.340 --> 00:58:19.780 +come in, shared wise thoughts, + +00:58:22.120 --> 00:58:22.420 +helping us form the, I don't know, + +00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:24.620 +ethos or all of the things that we're + +00:58:26.680 --> 00:58:27.180 +carrying forward into 2024. + +00:58:31.460 --> 00:58:31.960 +Sorry, Leo. + +00:58:32.640 --> 00:58:32.880 +[Speaker 1]: No, no, + +00:58:33.560 --> 00:58:33.940 +[Speaker 4]: you're fine, You're fine. + +00:58:35.980 --> 00:58:36.060 +I mean, you pretty much continued with what I + +00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:38.000 +was going to talk about. + +00:58:41.040 --> 00:58:41.540 +So I'm looking at the time and I've already + +00:58:44.640 --> 00:58:44.700 +extended by 5 minutes the amount of time I + +00:58:46.640 --> 00:58:46.800 +was supposed to stay and Flowy is looking at + +00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:50.660 +me with very teary eyes because he's thinking + +00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:52.280 +about the meeting he's going to have at 9am + +00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:53.940 +tomorrow, as will I by the way. + +00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:54.920 +Yeah, don't you have to + +00:58:56.380 --> 00:58:56.760 +[Speaker 3]: be commuting like right now Flowy? + +00:58:58.200 --> 00:58:58.700 +I mean aren't you supposed to be... + +00:59:01.560 --> 00:59:01.840 +I hope you get to sleep before work. + +00:59:04.820 --> 00:59:04.960 +Thank you so much for your awesome work this + +00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:05.460 +year. + +00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:07.680 +[Speaker 6]: I mean, I didn't do so much at the Emojis + +00:59:09.100 --> 00:59:09.600 +Conference, so I'm just here like from + +00:59:13.180 --> 00:59:13.320 +Friday. At first, I was looking at the + +00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:15.060 +website, which talks we're having, + +00:59:17.860 --> 00:59:18.040 +So it's all fine. So maybe next year or the + +00:59:19.740 --> 00:59:19.960 +coming year, I can do a little bit more + +00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:20.460 +privacy. + +00:59:23.260 --> 00:59:23.760 +[Speaker 4]: A little more, like again, + +00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:26.420 +like with Amin, Flowy's definition of doing, + +00:59:30.240 --> 00:59:30.400 +not having done much is hosting 1 of many of + +00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:34.240 +the Dev talks. So you could be kind of + +00:59:35.680 --> 00:59:36.140 +worried about it. All right, + +00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:38.720 +folks, considering the question that we have + +00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:40.640 +right now, we still see people adding + +00:59:42.260 --> 00:59:42.620 +questions, but I think we are all pretty + +00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:45.060 +tired and we need to get on with the rest of + +00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:46.780 +our weekends or nights. + +00:59:49.740 --> 00:59:50.080 +So do I go into parting words now everyone? + +00:59:50.720 --> 00:59:51.220 +Are we okay with this? + +00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:55.680 +I'll take this for a yes. + +00:59:56.780 --> 00:59:57.280 +I'll ask Sasha, yeah? + +01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:01.080 +[Speaker 0]: Oh I think I basically have until the kiddo + +01:00:03.560 --> 01:00:03.760 +yells at me to come for dinner so I can hang + +01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:04.940 +out with people after. + +01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:09.740 +and do the wrapping up. + +01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:10.080 +[Speaker 3]: But I + +01:00:10.080 --> 01:00:10.440 +[Speaker 4]: All right, splendid. Go ahead know, + +01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:12.600 +right, I'll do the wrapping up for the + +01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:14.040 +perhaps the stream. We might leave it up + +01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:16.700 +because there's no impetus for us to close + +01:00:20.100 --> 01:00:20.280 +it. But at least to officially close while + +01:00:22.340 --> 01:00:22.840 +we're still there, EmacsConf 2023, + +01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:25.900 +I will have again to thank everyone, + +01:00:28.200 --> 01:00:28.700 +all the speakers, all my co-organizers for + +01:00:31.020 --> 01:00:31.160 +making this possible. You've seen all the + +01:00:32.120 --> 01:00:32.260 +care that we put into it, + +01:00:34.900 --> 01:00:35.320 +and we are glad every year that all this work + +01:00:37.940 --> 01:00:38.440 +is doing something in terms of community + +01:00:41.420 --> 01:00:41.600 +building, in terms of leading more people to + +01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:43.380 +join us every year as speakers, + +01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:45.540 +or just join us as a user of Emacs. + +01:00:49.940 --> 01:00:50.100 +And it's always a pleasure to organize the + +01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640 +conference, to host it, + +01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:53.620 +and to work with everyone in the room + +01:00:56.840 --> 01:00:57.340 +currently. Corwin and I are constantly joking + +01:00:59.640 --> 01:01:00.140 +when we are backstage making jokes. + +01:01:03.540 --> 01:01:03.840 +I think it's Corwin we said last year during + +01:01:06.620 --> 01:01:06.900 +the closing remarks that there was no other + +01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:09.500 +place they'd rather be than in the backstage. + +01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:12.940 +And for me, even though many things have + +01:01:15.040 --> 01:01:15.360 +changed in my life over the last year, + +01:01:16.240 --> 01:01:16.740 +many good things have happened, + +01:01:19.640 --> 01:01:19.860 +it's good to come back to Emacs Cons as this + +01:01:22.080 --> 01:01:22.580 +milestone and say, oh yeah, + +01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:24.220 +I'm exactly where I want to be, + +01:01:25.320 --> 01:01:25.820 +with the people I want to be with, + +01:01:29.020 --> 01:01:29.220 +and I see myself and I cannot wait to see + +01:01:30.660 --> 01:01:31.080 +myself again in the situation next year. + +01:01:32.080 --> 01:01:32.580 +So thank you so much everyone. + +01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:34.640 +If you want to join us, + +01:01:36.100 --> 01:01:36.180 +ask questions, we'll still be here for a + +01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:37.640 +while. Floey might drop out, + +01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:40.020 +I might drop out, Sasha might drop out, + +01:01:41.600 --> 01:01:41.880 +but we'll be here to answer as many questions + +01:01:43.140 --> 01:01:43.640 +as you want for as long as we can. + +01:01:46.120 --> 01:01:46.280 +Bye bye everyone and let's get started with + +01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:47.300 +the after show now. + +01:01:51.540 --> 01:01:52.040 +[Speaker 0]: Bye Leo, bye Chloe! I'll drop out eventually + +01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:53.500 +when the kiddo yells at me. + +01:01:56.200 --> 01:01:56.440 +[Speaker 3]: I can't tell you how much fun this is, + +01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:58.440 +yeah. The way to remember what I said, + +01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:00.700 +Leo, it's 100% true. Oh man, + +01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:01.640 +turning off your lights, + +01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:03.220 +I'm doing it. I'm doing it too. + +01:02:04.600 --> 01:02:04.900 +Sorry y'all. Oh, yeah, + +01:02:05.380 --> 01:02:05.880 +bye-bye lights + +01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:10.760 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, that's every year that's how we finish + +01:02:12.340 --> 01:02:12.500 +we just turn off the the big lights that we + +01:02:14.240 --> 01:02:14.440 +have in our faces all the day especially the + +01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:14.940 +hosts + +01:02:19.120 --> 01:02:19.460 +[Speaker 3]: and Tell me if there's too much back chatter + +01:02:22.700 --> 01:02:23.200 +[Speaker 5]: get off my headphones, + +01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:24.720 +too, so I can + +01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:25.760 +[Speaker 3]: when I hear you in the room. + +01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:29.360 +Can I hear you now? Yeah. + +01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:32.460 +Is it feeding back pretty bad? + +01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:34.980 +[Speaker 1]: Hello? there is some echo. + +01:02:37.460 --> 01:02:37.960 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, there is some echo. + +01:02:41.200 --> 01:02:41.380 +[Speaker 3]: I think Okay. Fine. I can live with my + +01:02:42.160 --> 01:02:42.660 +headset a little longer. + +01:02:44.860 --> 01:02:45.360 +I give 1 ear a break at a time. + +01:02:47.140 --> 01:02:47.640 +[Speaker 1]: Thanks for your sacrifice. + +01:02:50.060 --> 01:02:50.560 +[Speaker 3]: Oh, well, you know, it's a small, + +01:02:53.080 --> 01:02:53.360 +small, small price to pay to get to smooth + +01:02:56.600 --> 01:02:56.820 +with y'all. Yeah, I was just looking at that + +01:02:58.580 --> 01:02:58.820 +chart and I was thinking about all of those + +01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:01.560 +meetings that we had like 18 months we were + +01:03:05.900 --> 01:03:06.400 +just on this death march to organize this and + +01:03:09.240 --> 01:03:09.520 +it's just such an amazing accomplishment that + +01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:12.140 +you you have here Sasha like I'm sorry to + +01:03:14.540 --> 01:03:14.760 +pick on you personally but the work that you + +01:03:16.680 --> 01:03:17.180 +put in keep being able to keep it the whole + +01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:19.260 +technical project in your mind, + +01:03:21.580 --> 01:03:21.760 +all the way down to presenting it at this + +01:03:24.100 --> 01:03:24.480 +year's conference and like kind of spoon + +01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:26.520 +feeding it to people that want to run off in + +01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:28.260 +their own damn direction and then handing + +01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:31.880 +them an org is the 1 that people keep bugging + +01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:33.940 +us about. So if you're looking for a project, + +01:03:37.340 --> 01:03:37.840 +here it is. Just really well done. + +01:03:43.540 --> 01:03:43.980 +I no longer feel like we wasted a lot of time + +01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:46.680 +there. I mean, you remember I enjoyed so much + +01:03:48.600 --> 01:03:49.100 +all of our check ins and all of that stuff. + +01:03:51.420 --> 01:03:51.920 +But we had so many ideas, + +01:03:53.480 --> 01:03:53.980 +you can imagine that I wondered, + +01:03:56.980 --> 01:03:57.160 +you know, I wondered if we should have had + +01:03:58.520 --> 01:03:58.700 +more focused meetings and all that. + +01:04:01.100 --> 01:04:01.360 +And I was glad when we stopped having like + +01:04:04.240 --> 01:04:04.540 +weekly meetings, because you know what I mean + +01:04:06.980 --> 01:04:07.120 +To keep this much power in the room once a + +01:04:08.160 --> 01:04:08.660 +week, it feels creepy. + +01:04:10.560 --> 01:04:11.060 +This much intellectual power. + +01:04:18.525 --> 01:04:18.820 +Anyway, that's it. I think that's it for me. + +01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:19.760 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, and I'll say, I mean, + +01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:22.540 +I can't obviously speak for Sash or anyone + +01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:24.940 +else. Yeah, the regular meetings were a + +01:04:26.980 --> 01:04:27.180 +little bit intense than we had the year + +01:04:29.540 --> 01:04:29.680 +before, but I'm kind of also super glad that + +01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:32.040 +we did do them. And, you know, + +01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:34.960 +in a way, it did help us sort of connect and + +01:04:38.180 --> 01:04:38.360 +get to know each other much more regularly or + +01:04:41.200 --> 01:04:41.440 +much more which is great and I see thumbs up + +01:04:44.900 --> 01:04:45.060 +from Leo and Corwin so yeah happy we did + +01:04:49.080 --> 01:04:49.280 +them. Might want to have some kind of + +01:04:51.820 --> 01:04:52.040 +actually irregular ones every once in a while + +01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:53.860 +if we have to decide on something. + +01:04:55.240 --> 01:04:55.520 +But if like this year, + +01:04:57.400 --> 01:04:57.600 +everything can be worked out pretty much ad + +01:04:58.780 --> 01:04:59.020 +hoc, whenever needs be, + +01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:00.980 +like over asynchronous communications. + +01:05:03.640 --> 01:05:04.140 +I see Sasha nodding very excitedly. + +01:05:07.820 --> 01:05:08.320 +This also works. So yeah. + +01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:11.420 +And I also see some questions coming in here + +01:05:14.580 --> 01:05:15.040 +in BBB. If other folks want to join, + +01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:16.780 +please feel free to do that as well. + +01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:19.300 +Yeah, I don't think we have an issue tracker + +01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:22.860 +right now, but our whole website is a wiki. + +01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:25.280 +So if you wanna like create a new page or + +01:05:26.180 --> 01:05:26.480 +there might be a page, + +01:05:28.640 --> 01:05:28.780 +I don't know. You can of course go in and + +01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:30.260 +edit it to your heart's content. + +01:05:36.540 --> 01:05:37.040 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Hilarious, I couldn't, + +01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:39.600 +like I almost managed to type that as fast as + +01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:41.260 +you could say it, you know. + +01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:43.940 +That's fine. I get the same answer in the + +01:05:46.620 --> 01:05:46.800 +chat. Yep. Our website's a wiki and we + +01:05:48.060 --> 01:05:48.260 +definitely use ideas here. + +01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:50.540 +If you want to implement them or you know + +01:05:53.100 --> 01:05:53.440 +document them enough that even Corwin can + +01:05:55.240 --> 01:05:55.740 +code it then you know I'll do that. + +01:05:58.220 --> 01:05:58.380 +[Speaker 0]: Also I'll go through all the etherpads at + +01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:00.480 +some point to harvest them and I think I have + +01:06:02.240 --> 01:06:02.480 +yeah I have an Emacs list function that does + +01:06:05.020 --> 01:06:05.280 +this for me. So that I can go through that + +01:06:06.820 --> 01:06:07.280 +thing and include that in our organizers + +01:06:09.060 --> 01:06:09.280 +notebooks, lessons learned and ideas for next + +01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:09.780 +year. + +01:06:11.120 --> 01:06:11.620 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah. + +01:06:15.010 --> 01:06:15.060 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, because something that you know, + +01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:16.720 +We were talking about the different models + +01:06:18.680 --> 01:06:18.840 +between having many, many meetings and how it + +01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:20.760 +paid off eventually. The thing is, + +01:06:22.160 --> 01:06:22.660 +this year we had no meetings. + +01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:27.660 +We met Friday morning on Mumble and we were + +01:06:29.540 --> 01:06:29.720 +ready to go. We did chat things up a little + +01:06:30.180 --> 01:06:30.660 +bit on ISE, obviously, + +01:06:31.780 --> 01:06:32.120 +but no meeting this year. + +01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:33.640 +So I'm tempted to say that, + +01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:35.080 +yes, we could have off-hand meetings, + +01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:36.480 +but I think it's mostly because we want to + +01:06:38.240 --> 01:06:38.680 +see 1 another, not because we need + +01:06:40.680 --> 01:06:41.160 +necessarily for those meetings to prepare + +01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:45.660 +Emacs cons. But what I wanted to say as well + +01:06:49.740 --> 01:06:50.200 +is that I think it's a testament to the bets + +01:06:52.940 --> 01:06:53.140 +that Sasha took last year to automatize a lot + +01:06:54.520 --> 01:06:54.720 +of things. I mean, we'd already been + +01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:56.120 +automatizing a lot of stuff, + +01:06:58.260 --> 01:06:58.760 +like writing scripts for every single thing + +01:07:02.220 --> 01:07:02.600 +in ESPire, but last year we made a big bet to + +01:07:04.600 --> 01:07:04.920 +say, what if we had OBS in the cloud? + +01:07:06.580 --> 01:07:06.760 +What if we had a streaming platform that was + +01:07:08.680 --> 01:07:08.860 +running on a machine? And this is what + +01:07:11.660 --> 01:07:12.100 +allowed us to very smoothly have 2 tracks, + +01:07:13.380 --> 01:07:13.880 +the general track and the dev track. + +01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:16.980 +And I think the beauty of this system is + +01:07:19.680 --> 01:07:19.840 +that, obviously, because we get more and more + +01:07:20.720 --> 01:07:21.220 +speakers submitting talks, + +01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:23.100 +we are starting to think maybe we actually + +01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:26.740 +need a third track or something and no 1 is + +01:07:28.580 --> 01:07:29.080 +stressed in the room when Sasha says this. + +01:07:31.100 --> 01:07:31.360 +You know, there's not the reaction that's + +01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:32.540 +like, oh no it's gonna be tough, + +01:07:33.200 --> 01:07:33.620 +we're gonna need more hosts, + +01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:34.980 +organizers, it's just a calm... + +01:07:37.580 --> 01:07:38.040 +[Speaker 3]: Now, point of order, Now Flowy is stressed + +01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:39.500 +when Sasha says this. + +01:07:44.640 --> 01:07:45.060 +[Speaker 4]: That was just a- + +01:07:46.640 --> 01:07:46.800 +[Speaker 0]: I didn't know, Colin, we could put you in the + +01:07:47.720 --> 01:07:47.880 +spot next year. You'd be like, + +01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:49.400 +you know, hey, Colin, what do you feel about + +01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:49.900 +hosting? + +01:07:53.300 --> 01:07:53.800 +[Speaker 3]: You know, I'm happy to do it. + +01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:57.260 +And I feel, I mean, just to jump in there and + +01:07:59.540 --> 01:08:00.040 +say, yes, exactly. No, + +01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:01.560 +there's no concern on the part of the + +01:08:03.220 --> 01:08:03.720 +organizer committee that we could expand + +01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:06.180 +this. If you said we needed to expand to 4 + +01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:08.900 +tracks, I think we would gulp and consider + +01:08:10.080 --> 01:08:10.360 +it, you know, from there, + +01:08:11.040 --> 01:08:11.540 +it gets a little crazy, + +01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:14.260 +but strictly because there aren't that many + +01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:16.899 +people that we know want to commit. + +01:08:18.120 --> 01:08:18.399 +What did we see there? + +01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:20.939 +80 hours of potential work that, + +01:08:23.000 --> 01:08:23.200 +you know, that could go into organizing next + +01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:25.580 +year's conference if you find that it's a + +01:08:26.979 --> 01:08:27.399 +rabbit hole for you and being a streamer + +01:08:28.979 --> 01:08:29.140 +means you want to read every email and + +01:08:31.500 --> 01:08:31.819 +respond to every, as Sasha has done this last + +01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:34.819 +year, right? So when I look at her numbers + +01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:35.859 +for total participation, + +01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:38.500 +that's really a high watermark. + +01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:43.939 +Sasha really took care of this convention, + +01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:47.180 +you know, like a producer might. + +01:08:52.240 --> 01:08:52.660 +And the fact that what used to take 200 hours + +01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:56.260 +before, I mean, I can't harp enough on the + +01:08:57.720 --> 01:08:57.979 +story that that's telling you, + +01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:00.800 +right? And as I think about it with a project + +01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:02.080 +manager hat on, right? + +01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:03.160 +I'm saying, okay, well, + +01:09:07.080 --> 01:09:07.580 +that's, you know, that work can potentially + +01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:09.960 +be amplified to many thousands of hours of + +01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:11.920 +work, considering the automation and the + +01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:13.439 +potential for bringing people in. + +01:09:14.540 --> 01:09:14.800 +So if you thought about it as a money-making + +01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:16.520 +thing, If we were trying to make money by + +01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:17.460 +having these conventions, + +01:09:19.040 --> 01:09:19.540 +you would think we have a very profitable + +01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:24.000 +business here because we can amplify the + +01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:25.939 +talent that walks in the door really + +01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:28.640 +effectively, if that makes sense, + +01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:30.300 +through the tools and the training. + +01:09:33.800 --> 01:09:33.960 +[Speaker 0]: So we should clarify that if anyone wants to + +01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:36.180 +volunteer as a host or just check in, + +01:09:38.300 --> 01:09:38.380 +let's just talk host. It's really just a + +01:09:40.080 --> 01:09:40.580 +matter of showing up, making sure your BVB + +01:09:42.160 --> 01:09:42.439 +works so you can talk. + +01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:43.620 +If you want to share your webcam, + +01:09:44.899 --> 01:09:45.040 +you can. You can skip it if you don't want + +01:09:46.359 --> 01:09:46.859 +to. You can share the screen with the pad. + +01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:48.800 +And then you just sit there and you chat with + +01:09:51.260 --> 01:09:51.399 +a speaker and you read the questions off the + +01:09:53.240 --> 01:09:53.399 +pad in case they don't read the questions off + +01:09:56.740 --> 01:09:57.240 +themselves. So it can be a very low effort, + +01:09:59.440 --> 01:09:59.940 +low stress way to get into it and just there + +01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:03.000 +kind of helping the speaker have somebody to + +01:10:05.540 --> 01:10:05.820 +talk to. It doesn't have to take 80 hours. + +01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:08.720 +It can take 2 hours and that's cool. + +01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:10.840 +[Speaker 3]: And the same, and that's just like the + +01:10:11.820 --> 01:10:12.040 +transcription task. Yeah, + +01:10:13.700 --> 01:10:13.980 +sorry, I probably missed the lead there, + +01:10:16.080 --> 01:10:16.360 +right? Every individual part of this is + +01:10:19.160 --> 01:10:19.660 +really easy. So it's an open-ended commitment + +01:10:22.360 --> 01:10:22.860 +to come and kind of meet a part of the + +01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:25.340 +committee, a part of the community, + +01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:27.540 +right? To come in and say, + +01:10:29.440 --> 01:10:29.940 +maybe you're really excited about org, + +01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:33.600 +you could review talks and just review the + +01:10:35.420 --> 01:10:35.660 +org ones. There's not an obligation that says + +01:10:37.440 --> 01:10:37.800 +you're going to look at every talk that's + +01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:40.640 +submitted, right? Share your thoughts on the + +01:10:42.500 --> 01:10:42.660 +talks that you have a chance to review the + +01:10:44.440 --> 01:10:44.900 +proposals. That's the submissions review + +01:10:48.040 --> 01:10:48.540 +part, right? So there's a way to help with + +01:10:51.820 --> 01:10:52.120 +almost any appetite for I'd like a little + +01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:54.780 +extra work in the Emacs department here like + +01:10:56.480 --> 01:10:56.640 +if you want to feel like you're part of the + +01:10:59.600 --> 01:10:59.800 +team this this team is really easy to get + +01:11:02.440 --> 01:11:02.710 +[Speaker 7]: think that's + +01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:03.840 +[Speaker 3]: involved with. I I mean, + +01:11:04.280 --> 01:11:04.440 +please. Go ahead, + +01:11:06.820 --> 01:11:07.320 +[Speaker 4]: No, no, please. I've talked enough. + +01:11:08.940 --> 01:11:09.100 +[Speaker 1]: sort of the... Leo. Well, + +01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:10.660 +I don't get tired of hearing you talk, + +01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:13.500 +but yeah, I was going to say, + +01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:17.320 +Yeah, I feel like that's the general message + +01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:19.920 +here is that we're all just a bunch of people + +01:11:21.360 --> 01:11:21.860 +who are interested in this. + +01:11:24.060 --> 01:11:24.560 +And of course, being humans, + +01:11:26.120 --> 01:11:26.280 +each of us have different kinds of lives and + +01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:27.720 +different kinds of availabilities and + +01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:28.760 +different kinds of interests. + +01:11:29.860 --> 01:11:30.360 +And there is something for everybody, + +01:11:34.300 --> 01:11:34.540 +both in terms of the kinds of tasks that you + +01:11:37.480 --> 01:11:37.760 +need doing, but also in terms of the amount + +01:11:39.980 --> 01:11:40.480 +of time that you want or are able to put in. + +01:11:43.780 --> 01:11:44.080 +So yes, if you do think this is something + +01:11:46.240 --> 01:11:46.700 +that you might be interested in helping with + +01:11:47.980 --> 01:11:48.400 +for future additions and such, + +01:11:51.140 --> 01:11:51.340 +or even some of the post-conference work that + +01:11:52.300 --> 01:11:52.800 +needs doing after this year. + +01:11:55.800 --> 01:11:55.960 +Please reach out there's something for + +01:11:57.440 --> 01:11:57.940 +everybody and I would love to have + +01:12:03.020 --> 01:12:03.360 +[Speaker 6]: you. I can confirm there was an easy access + +01:12:06.260 --> 01:12:06.500 +so I came here last year just doing some + +01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:09.100 +checking in and the process of getting, + +01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:11.120 +it's called a trained in was really, + +01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:12.620 +really short. There was a lot of + +01:12:13.700 --> 01:12:14.200 +documentation how to do something. + +01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:17.920 +I mean, there's a pad that gets sent and what + +01:12:20.540 --> 01:12:20.660 +to do, when to do, and what to ask is like + +01:12:22.160 --> 01:12:22.660 +really incredible. So thank you for that. + +01:12:26.320 --> 01:12:26.820 +Just come here, write an email, + +01:12:28.860 --> 01:12:29.200 +join us. It's really, really cool. + +01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:31.420 +And it's a great experience to be honest. + +01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:35.900 +[Speaker 4]: Thank you. And while Sasha is speaking about + +01:12:36.820 --> 01:12:37.280 +the update of the wiki, + +01:12:38.320 --> 01:12:38.820 +oh Coleman did you want to say something? + +01:12:41.140 --> 01:12:41.600 +[Speaker 3]: No I was just I was just gonna embarrass + +01:12:44.240 --> 01:12:44.740 +Floey Coder further but you go ahead. + +01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:51.200 +I was just gonna say I think you're pretty + +01:12:52.420 --> 01:12:52.900 +quick, you're pretty quick, + +01:12:55.320 --> 01:12:55.820 +you took to it really quickly or you show + +01:12:57.240 --> 01:12:57.740 +just kind of a reflexive calm. + +01:12:59.340 --> 01:12:59.720 +Like you know how to not talk over people. + +01:13:01.200 --> 01:13:01.700 +You're already better at it than I am. + +01:13:06.500 --> 01:13:07.000 +Now, you know, I think, + +01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:09.280 +yeah, I hope you're enjoying the new stuff + +01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:10.720 +that you're starting to take on because you + +01:13:12.040 --> 01:13:12.540 +seem to be doing great with it. + +01:13:14.220 --> 01:13:14.500 +And yeah, I hope you're not sitting there + +01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:16.080 +thinking that you're taking, + +01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:18.340 +you know, that you're coming on, + +01:13:19.700 --> 01:13:19.920 +that you're not taking on enough + +01:13:21.420 --> 01:13:21.680 +responsibility or anything like that, + +01:13:23.100 --> 01:13:23.600 +or I don't know, maybe. + +01:13:26.040 --> 01:13:26.240 +I picked up like a little undercurrent of + +01:13:28.100 --> 01:13:28.380 +like, I don't do that much, + +01:13:31.440 --> 01:13:31.940 +and I hope you don't feel that way because I + +01:13:33.719 --> 01:13:34.219 +just enjoyed really having your help the last + +01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:39.180 +couple of years. Thank you very much. + +01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:47.720 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, that's how they get you, + +01:13:48.560 --> 01:13:48.680 +you know, they just tell you, + +01:13:49.340 --> 01:13:49.840 +oh, could you do check-ins? + +01:13:51.820 --> 01:13:52.180 +Like I showed up for 4 years ago saying, + +01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:55.080 +oh, I'd like to help and look at me now. + +01:13:56.780 --> 01:13:57.040 +I think I did I host on the first year? + +01:13:57.800 --> 01:13:58.300 +I'm pretty sure I did. + +01:14:00.020 --> 01:14:00.420 +Like it took 2 months basically of onboarding + +01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:03.160 +to convince me to do some of the hosting and + +01:14:06.820 --> 01:14:07.000 +back then oh it was so tough for us to do the + +01:14:08.440 --> 01:14:08.680 +hosting because we didn't have all the fancy + +01:14:10.320 --> 01:14:10.680 +setup we have this year and we were + +01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:14.180 +struggling with OBS with bid rates with + +01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:18.340 +sharing scenes I'm glad we are where we are + +01:14:20.460 --> 01:14:20.760 +today, where I don't have to worry as much + +01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:22.120 +about this. But it's also nice, + +01:14:24.440 --> 01:14:24.580 +it's also 1 thing, we do have a culture of + +01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:26.260 +documentation as Sasha exemplified, + +01:14:28.140 --> 01:14:28.640 +and like Flo mentioned, + +01:14:29.540 --> 01:14:29.820 +documentation on the roles. + +01:14:33.060 --> 01:14:33.560 +Yes, We did do this to help people join us. + +01:14:39.360 --> 01:14:39.840 +But really, I'm the host of General, + +01:14:41.660 --> 01:14:41.840 +but it could be just anyone else because we + +01:14:43.780 --> 01:14:44.020 +have so much documentation on how to do + +01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:46.780 +things. Obviously, when a co-organizer is + +01:14:48.740 --> 01:14:48.900 +doing a role, we tend to have an eye on how + +01:14:49.740 --> 01:14:50.160 +the infrastructure is going. + +01:14:51.820 --> 01:14:52.320 +But really, if you want to join us, + +01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:54.940 +we will make sure that the jobs that you + +01:14:57.240 --> 01:14:57.500 +have, first, you like them and it's something + +01:14:59.440 --> 01:14:59.640 +that interests you, and we will also make + +01:15:04.180 --> 01:15:04.400 +sure that on our end, everything goes well + +01:15:06.140 --> 01:15:06.640 +for you. Like we'll be monitoring the streams + +01:15:08.540 --> 01:15:09.040 +and every time we have a new person join us, + +01:15:13.500 --> 01:15:14.000 +it is as much energy and mental availability + +01:15:17.780 --> 01:15:18.220 +to invest into, oh, maybe we could do this. + +01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:19.940 +Oh, 0, we have a fire going out because the + +01:15:21.320 --> 01:15:21.820 +speaker hasn't checked in yet. + +01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:24.560 +So it's all about sharing expertise, + +01:15:27.180 --> 01:15:27.260 +it's all about making people level up in + +01:15:28.520 --> 01:15:29.020 +terms of skills that are really useful. + +01:15:34.120 --> 01:15:34.280 +I will attribute a lot of my success in + +01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:36.120 +public speaking to the work I do with + +01:15:38.620 --> 01:15:39.120 +EmacsConf, and I'm sure plenty of people + +01:15:43.420 --> 01:15:43.620 +would gain from joining us and learning these + +01:15:47.440 --> 01:15:47.940 +skills. All right, It's about 30 minutes past + +01:15:49.740 --> 01:15:49.920 +the official time. Do we want to go a little + +01:15:51.180 --> 01:15:51.680 +longer? Are we still available to go? + +01:15:55.180 --> 01:15:55.680 +All right, well, let's keep going. + +01:16:00.443 --> 01:16:00.486 +I don't see any more people joining us on the + +01:16:00.660 --> 01:16:00.703 +[Speaker 1]: We have Bob, + +01:16:01.240 --> 01:16:01.720 +[Speaker 4]: Blue Button. who was 1 of the speakers today + +01:16:03.940 --> 01:16:04.200 +in the room. Bob, do you want to maybe unmute + +01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:05.900 +yourself and ask us some questions? + +01:16:08.420 --> 01:16:08.720 +Or just thank us. I mean, + +01:16:09.480 --> 01:16:09.840 +I'm just begging for something. + +01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:11.420 +But I know you've been very helpful. + +01:16:15.340 --> 01:16:15.720 +[Speaker 5]: Yes. How are you? No, I've really had fun. + +01:16:18.340 --> 01:16:18.600 +No, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted for you, + +01:16:22.800 --> 01:16:23.300 +I think. So I learned something. + +01:16:25.040 --> 01:16:25.460 +Everybody wants to record their videos, + +01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:26.940 +which of course, is great, + +01:16:28.380 --> 01:16:28.480 +and then you have the subtitles and + +01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:32.040 +everything. But I saved a lot of time by + +01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:35.740 +doing it live this year and not going in and + +01:16:38.040 --> 01:16:38.200 +tweaking and doing all the editing and + +01:16:39.440 --> 01:16:39.860 +spending all the time that we do. + +01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:42.720 +And it was kind of fun to do it that way too. + +01:16:44.900 --> 01:16:45.400 +So just a little note there. + +01:16:48.340 --> 01:16:48.640 +But I look forward to seeing 1 of my talks + +01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:53.940 +subtitled someday. So no, + +01:16:55.240 --> 01:16:55.740 +I love what you do. It's fun. + +01:16:57.660 --> 01:16:57.900 +I've only seen part of Sasha's talk, + +01:17:00.660 --> 01:17:01.000 +so I'll go and review that about how you're + +01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:04.340 +automating all this. You know, + +01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:06.680 +it's a little sad for me personally that of + +01:17:09.080 --> 01:17:09.580 +course, Org gets all the attention, + +01:17:14.060 --> 01:17:14.340 +but you know, we're exposing hyperbole more + +01:17:16.820 --> 01:17:17.240 +now and There's definitely a growing interest + +01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:19.020 +on Reddit and you know, + +01:17:20.140 --> 01:17:20.640 +I think it's kind of like EmacsConf. + +01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:23.900 +Give it a few years. We went away for a long + +01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:25.340 +time and then we came back. + +01:17:30.420 --> 01:17:30.880 +We'll start to see it permeate the Emacs + +01:17:33.160 --> 01:17:33.660 +first. But I was thinking that, + +01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:36.960 +you know, I think people who like Emacs and + +01:17:38.340 --> 01:17:38.840 +stuff, they read things online, + +01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:41.420 +they come to this conference, + +01:17:43.620 --> 01:17:43.940 +but we're always hearing about, + +01:17:44.620 --> 01:17:45.120 +well, the next generation. + +01:17:47.260 --> 01:17:47.500 +We have to deal with that. + +01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:50.160 +And I think a lot of people get exposed to + +01:17:52.900 --> 01:17:53.120 +Emacs in college. Now a professor turns them + +01:17:55.080 --> 01:17:55.460 +on to it and makes them use it, + +01:17:57.100 --> 01:17:57.600 +and then they go out into the real world, + +01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:00.220 +and there's no encouragement anymore, + +01:18:01.460 --> 01:18:01.960 +and they just drop it. + +01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:05.980 +And with all of what you're putting together + +01:18:09.280 --> 01:18:09.720 +here, it seems like if there was some reach + +01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:14.620 +out to universities and college students, + +01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:19.100 +You know, we might get a whole new big crowd + +01:18:22.360 --> 01:18:22.580 +of people coming in. You know, + +01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:25.320 +just as I think OREG has really attracted a + +01:18:26.840 --> 01:18:27.340 +lot of people in the sciences, + +01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:30.440 +since that's what it was originally developed + +01:18:32.500 --> 01:18:32.860 +for. So just a thought, + +01:18:35.740 --> 01:18:35.900 +you know, maybe if you get any volunteers who + +01:18:38.440 --> 01:18:38.940 +can help in the reach out or just, + +01:18:40.320 --> 01:18:40.560 +you know, sending things around to + +01:18:43.780 --> 01:18:44.020 +universities that might really extend who + +01:18:45.060 --> 01:18:45.560 +gets exposed to this stuff. + +01:18:49.240 --> 01:18:49.480 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's a great and very + +01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:52.020 +interesting idea. And it sort of touches on a + +01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:53.000 +couple of different things. + +01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:54.140 +Sort of like you mentioned, + +01:18:56.180 --> 01:18:56.400 +well, with org, it sort of really drew into + +01:19:00.060 --> 01:19:00.560 +sciences, folks. It would be interesting to + +01:19:03.280 --> 01:19:03.780 +see other parts of Emacs doing that for other + +01:19:05.740 --> 01:19:06.240 +kinds of communities, but also specifically, + +01:19:08.920 --> 01:19:09.420 +I guess, for colleges and universities. + +01:19:14.220 --> 01:19:14.680 +Yeah, it would be cool if we had local groups + +01:19:17.140 --> 01:19:17.300 +or local meetups, because so far right now, + +01:19:20.140 --> 01:19:20.420 +I think the most common ones are like by city + +01:19:22.280 --> 01:19:22.440 +like for example a Toronto Emacs meetup or + +01:19:25.320 --> 01:19:25.760 +something like that yeah if you could maybe + +01:19:28.820 --> 01:19:29.320 +encourage or help foster a university level + +01:19:32.200 --> 01:19:32.520 +type of thing you know University of blah + +01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:35.860 +blah Emacs group or something like that and + +01:19:39.860 --> 01:19:40.080 +you know seeing what their needs would be or + +01:19:42.860 --> 01:19:43.360 +trying to think also what features of Emacs + +01:19:46.260 --> 01:19:46.560 +would be very useful in an academic slash + +01:19:48.680 --> 01:19:48.920 +educational setting. Yeah, + +01:19:50.460 --> 01:19:50.840 +lots of food for thought there. + +01:19:52.120 --> 01:19:52.620 +So thank you for mentioning this. + +01:20:02.420 --> 01:20:02.920 +[Speaker 5]: Sure. And I guess, yeah, + +01:20:04.400 --> 01:20:04.900 +OBS is coming up here. + +01:20:06.820 --> 01:20:07.040 +I worked with that a bit, + +01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:09.240 +yes, last year. You know, + +01:20:12.040 --> 01:20:12.540 +another powerful piece of software with a + +01:20:15.240 --> 01:20:15.740 +sort of, I think, a weak user interface, + +01:20:20.080 --> 01:20:20.540 +you know, for the newbies coming along on it. + +01:20:23.200 --> 01:20:23.700 +And maybe, you know, if there's, + +01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:26.420 +if that's kind of what people use, + +01:20:29.540 --> 01:20:29.700 +figuring out or putting some information in + +01:20:32.740 --> 01:20:33.240 +the wiki about how to do that, + +01:20:34.900 --> 01:20:35.400 +you know, work with it or... + +01:20:36.300 --> 01:20:36.800 +[Speaker 4]: Oh, good idea. + +01:20:43.140 --> 01:20:43.340 +[Speaker 3]: I can comment. It is definitely the + +01:20:46.420 --> 01:20:46.920 +preeminent streamer software out there, + +01:20:49.120 --> 01:20:49.620 +well beyond the free software community. + +01:20:54.120 --> 01:20:54.500 +It's used by most streamers on Twitch and + +01:20:59.680 --> 01:20:59.960 +other like commercial for-profit things but + +01:21:01.780 --> 01:21:02.220 +of course those companies are making money + +01:21:04.480 --> 01:21:04.700 +off people trying to give money to the + +01:21:07.200 --> 01:21:07.440 +streamers. Those streamers aren't getting any + +01:21:10.160 --> 01:21:10.660 +software help. So actually most of them are + +01:21:13.900 --> 01:21:14.400 +dependent for their income on free software + +01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:18.900 +like OBS and OBS in specific or by some kind + +01:21:23.100 --> 01:21:23.600 +of forked brand name is the primary tool. + +01:21:28.660 --> 01:21:28.820 +[Speaker 4]: If I'm not mistaken I believe Stefan has + +01:21:29.860 --> 01:21:30.360 +joined us right now in the room. + +01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:33.420 +I'm putting you on the spot, + +01:21:34.480 --> 01:21:34.760 +if you want to stay muted you can. + +01:21:35.640 --> 01:21:36.140 +Oh, you have unmuted yourself. + +01:21:38.400 --> 01:21:38.900 +[Speaker 7]: I managed to click the unmute button. + +01:21:41.180 --> 01:21:41.680 +Yes, I'm here. How are you guys doing? + +01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:44.200 +[Speaker 4]: Doing good, surviving here. + +01:21:44.200 --> 01:21:44.700 +[Speaker 1]: Congratulations. + +01:21:45.480 --> 01:21:45.980 +[Speaker 4]: Late in your time. + +01:21:50.040 --> 01:21:50.220 +[Speaker 7]: Really amazing work organizing the + +01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:52.460 +conference. I really have to congratulate + +01:21:56.120 --> 01:21:56.480 +everyone. So I just hopped on here to sort of + +01:21:58.140 --> 01:21:58.640 +say that I'm extremely impressed. + +01:22:04.240 --> 01:22:04.540 +And I think this is an example to follow for + +01:22:07.040 --> 01:22:07.440 +other conferences and for Emacs in general. + +01:22:09.400 --> 01:22:09.900 +I think we need more of this community-type + +01:22:12.940 --> 01:22:13.380 +organizing and just getting people interested + +01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:16.240 +and involved on all kinds of levels can only + +01:22:20.200 --> 01:22:20.340 +help Emacs. Because we are in this for the + +01:22:22.540 --> 01:22:23.040 +long haul. That's it. + +01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:25.780 +[Speaker 3]: Oh, what a great point. + +01:22:28.500 --> 01:22:28.740 +If I can comment, that's 1 of the things that + +01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:31.020 +drew me to trying to contribute to free + +01:22:32.580 --> 01:22:32.960 +software when I was a kid, + +01:22:35.580 --> 01:22:36.080 +like we're talking now 30 plus years ago, + +01:22:38.360 --> 01:22:38.860 +the idea like, and I recognized it from + +01:22:42.180 --> 01:22:42.620 +Stallman's initial manifestos on the topic, + +01:22:45.060 --> 01:22:45.360 +right? He was clearly in this for the long + +01:22:47.040 --> 01:22:47.540 +haul. Like I am building the library of + +01:22:50.500 --> 01:22:50.740 +Alexandria here and like linking the work + +01:22:52.420 --> 01:22:52.580 +that we're trying to do to community that I + +01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:54.900 +don't know how you could touch my heart you + +01:22:57.620 --> 01:22:57.840 +know more surely because that's that's + +01:22:59.440 --> 01:22:59.940 +exactly what we want to do not necessarily + +01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:04.300 +any given talk or comment but the idea that + +01:23:07.960 --> 01:23:08.460 +we have to get together and share our ideas + +01:23:10.900 --> 01:23:11.400 +and the place that we do that has to be just + +01:23:14.380 --> 01:23:14.880 +has to be a buffet and not a crucible. + +01:23:17.620 --> 01:23:17.800 +[Speaker 7]: And look, we're standing on the shoulders of + +01:23:19.400 --> 01:23:19.840 +giants, really, when we're looking at Emacs + +01:23:21.100 --> 01:23:21.600 +and sort of what we have achieved. + +01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:24.840 +And the galaxy of talent that exists in the + +01:23:27.040 --> 01:23:27.540 +Emacs community is also like truly + +01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:31.300 +impressive, I think. So There's a lot of work + +01:23:34.280 --> 01:23:34.780 +to be done, but we've also achieved some + +01:23:37.120 --> 01:23:37.480 +pretty impressive things so far. + +01:23:38.620 --> 01:23:39.120 +So let's just keep at it. + +01:23:43.200 --> 01:23:43.700 +I'm sure we'll have a fantastic future for + +01:23:44.180 --> 01:23:44.680 +Emacs. + +01:23:52.540 --> 01:23:53.040 +[Speaker 5]: You know, I'm kind of interested in what + +01:23:56.540 --> 01:23:57.040 +Stefan's here. You know, + +01:24:00.400 --> 01:24:00.900 +just the common tropes that go around. + +01:24:05.320 --> 01:24:05.740 +I just hear it so much on the net, + +01:24:07.540 --> 01:24:08.040 +you know, is Emacs still alive? + +01:24:09.960 --> 01:24:10.460 +Do people still use it? + +01:24:11.120 --> 01:24:11.480 +You know, and of course, + +01:24:13.620 --> 01:24:14.100 +it's like you have an older piece of software + +01:24:15.200 --> 01:24:15.700 +that started so long ago, + +01:24:17.540 --> 01:24:17.720 +people don't realize that it's still up, + +01:24:20.320 --> 01:24:20.820 +but it's also because of the trends, + +01:24:22.900 --> 01:24:23.400 +right? You know, we've got the electron-based + +01:24:28.580 --> 01:24:28.740 +development and Visual Studio is slick out of + +01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:33.220 +the box. So what's in the core Emacs + +01:24:36.260 --> 01:24:36.540 +developers realm, obviously you guys are + +01:24:38.160 --> 01:24:38.660 +taking this longer term perspective, + +01:24:44.060 --> 01:24:44.380 +which makes sense, but what do you think + +01:24:48.480 --> 01:24:48.980 +about this issue, the shorter term and how to + +01:24:52.200 --> 01:24:52.540 +alleviate those concerns that some people + +01:24:52.540 --> 01:24:53.040 +represent? + +01:24:54.820 --> 01:24:55.040 +[Speaker 7]: Of course, yes. I mean, + +01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:56.160 +this is something that, + +01:24:59.340 --> 01:24:59.600 +I mean, clearly people are discussing and as + +01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:01.800 +you say, It's almost like a trope at this + +01:25:04.200 --> 01:25:04.700 +point. And it's been discussed on EmacsDevil, + +01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:07.960 +what can we do to promote Emacs more and to + +01:25:10.240 --> 01:25:10.740 +what extent should we care about that? + +01:25:15.100 --> 01:25:15.600 +And I mean, my reply to that is usually just, + +01:25:19.120 --> 01:25:19.620 +the rumors of my death are very accurate. + +01:25:24.720 --> 01:25:25.220 +And I think this is true also for Emacs. + +01:25:29.240 --> 01:25:29.700 +So we are very much here. + +01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:32.460 +I think what has happened also is reflective + +01:25:34.960 --> 01:25:35.220 +of basically that there are just more + +01:25:36.580 --> 01:25:37.080 +programmers on the planet, + +01:25:38.040 --> 01:25:38.240 +[Speaker 3]: And we + +01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:40.420 +[Speaker 7]: right? haven't been able to sort of catch + +01:25:41.960 --> 01:25:42.460 +that segment as it's been growing, + +01:25:44.680 --> 01:25:45.060 +but also we have more Emacs users I think + +01:25:47.500 --> 01:25:47.860 +today than probably ever before. + +01:25:48.420 --> 01:25:48.920 +We have more packages, + +01:25:50.540 --> 01:25:51.040 +we have more stuff going on. + +01:25:55.580 --> 01:25:55.980 +So I think it's a challenge as well, + +01:25:58.200 --> 01:25:58.440 +like to what extent do we wanna be like a + +01:26:00.260 --> 01:26:00.420 +niche and to what extent do we wanna be the + +01:26:03.280 --> 01:26:03.780 +text editor for programmers. + +01:26:06.420 --> 01:26:06.720 +And I think there's a tension there because + +01:26:09.780 --> 01:26:09.960 +we want to stay true to what Emacs is and to + +01:26:12.440 --> 01:26:12.940 +its sort of core values of what makes Emacs + +01:26:16.720 --> 01:26:16.880 +great, but can we still make some changes to + +01:26:18.340 --> 01:26:18.760 +sort of stay relevant. + +01:26:21.060 --> 01:26:21.340 +And I think that's a huge win. + +01:26:24.800 --> 01:26:24.960 +And clearly these discussions are going on on + +01:26:26.980 --> 01:26:27.280 +the Emacs level and in the minds of core + +01:26:29.340 --> 01:26:29.640 +developers, I think, every day. + +01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:32.540 +Even though, I mean, most of our work is just + +01:26:35.320 --> 01:26:35.820 +trying to keep adding new features, + +01:26:38.220 --> 01:26:38.720 +make sure that we have that sort of core + +01:26:40.060 --> 01:26:40.400 +infrastructure in place, + +01:26:42.280 --> 01:26:42.500 +which is part of the reason why I gave the + +01:26:44.260 --> 01:26:44.680 +talk I did yesterday, to invite more people + +01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:46.960 +to come on board. Because I see a lot of + +01:26:48.200 --> 01:26:48.700 +people have opinions about Emacs, + +01:26:50.700 --> 01:26:51.200 +which is amazing, and we need more of that. + +01:26:54.160 --> 01:26:54.660 +But I think, let's say, + +01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:56.780 +patches speak louder than words. + +01:27:01.300 --> 01:27:01.780 +Software. And it's definitely true in Emacs + +01:27:01.780 --> 01:27:02.280 +development. + +01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:04.960 +[Speaker 3]: I want to just piggyback on, + +01:27:06.820 --> 01:27:06.940 +like attack the premise of the question a + +01:27:09.800 --> 01:27:09.960 +little bit, right? Remember that we are sort + +01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:12.380 +of in a trench warfare with commercial + +01:27:15.160 --> 01:27:15.660 +interests that are dependent on dominating + +01:27:20.660 --> 01:27:21.160 +software ecosystems in order to exploit users + +01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:24.760 +for money. Like that is a necessary thing to + +01:27:26.020 --> 01:27:26.420 +a lot of people's business model. + +01:27:30.060 --> 01:27:30.560 +And so we live in a world where software is + +01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:33.260 +more than tools. It is clothing. + +01:27:38.480 --> 01:27:38.840 +And so when I put on my Mac and I put on my + +01:27:42.860 --> 01:27:43.180 +UI skin, I'm not just choosing whether I like + +01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:46.960 +sliders or radio buttons or check boxes or + +01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:50.340 +the other UI mechanics that give that + +01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:54.160 +heuristic and make it make me think it's easy + +01:27:55.440 --> 01:27:55.940 +to use, easy to learn to use, + +01:27:59.160 --> 01:27:59.340 +right? I'm also choosing a whole line of + +01:28:02.080 --> 01:28:02.580 +implementation detail that I'm being actively + +01:28:06.040 --> 01:28:06.540 +trained not to try to understand by, + +01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:09.020 +you know, kind of the dark side of the force + +01:28:11.780 --> 01:28:12.100 +over here. So when I think about, + +01:28:14.380 --> 01:28:14.880 +you know, make Emacs more like Toaster, + +01:28:18.860 --> 01:28:19.060 +[Speaker 1]: you know, + +01:28:21.340 --> 01:28:21.560 +[Speaker 3]: I, 1 of my responses is every time that + +01:28:22.740 --> 01:28:22.960 +question asks, you know, + +01:28:24.160 --> 01:28:24.480 +an angel grows, gets asked, + +01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:25.720 +an angel grows its wings. + +01:28:27.040 --> 01:28:27.540 +A developer submits a patch, + +01:28:30.040 --> 01:28:30.240 +a bug gets opened that we can, + +01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:32.320 +you know, with enough information to actually + +01:28:33.240 --> 01:28:33.740 +do something about it, + +01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:35.280 +the ecosystem gets better, + +01:28:38.100 --> 01:28:38.600 +right? Whether a new user comes or not, + +01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:41.040 +like somebody's actually asking a question + +01:28:42.780 --> 01:28:42.900 +that's going to lead them someday to pick a + +01:28:43.260 --> 01:28:43.760 +better tool. + +01:28:47.620 --> 01:28:48.120 +[Speaker 7]: Yeah, it's true. I mean, + +01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:50.280 +we have powerful enemies and they are not + +01:28:52.540 --> 01:28:52.720 +working for us. And when they are working on + +01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:55.160 +improving VS code, you can't be under any + +01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:56.720 +illusion that they are doing that in the + +01:28:57.340 --> 01:28:57.660 +interest of the users. + +01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:00.060 +They're doing that in their interest of the + +01:29:02.620 --> 01:29:02.780 +corporate owners. So this is the reality that + +01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:04.900 +we have to face and Emacs is just not like + +01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:08.040 +that. And this is of course part of the + +01:29:09.960 --> 01:29:10.460 +reason why it's so important that we continue + +01:29:14.040 --> 01:29:14.260 +this work for the future of being able to do + +01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:17.800 +computing in a free way and in a way that is + +01:29:20.220 --> 01:29:20.380 +actually, you know, supports the types of + +01:29:21.740 --> 01:29:22.240 +workflows that we know and love. + +01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:26.920 +[Speaker 4]: Something that I'd like to add to this is + +01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:30.060 +that, you know, you've mentioned we need more + +01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:31.140 +programmers in the world. + +01:29:33.240 --> 01:29:33.340 +And in light of what we're doing with + +01:29:35.140 --> 01:29:35.220 +EmacsConf, perhaps we need more people to be + +01:29:36.580 --> 01:29:36.960 +at EmacsConf talking, not necessarily + +01:29:38.100 --> 01:29:38.600 +programmers, but just people apprehending + +01:29:40.520 --> 01:29:40.940 +Emacs and talking about it. + +01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:43.180 +It feels like we've got different missions + +01:29:44.440 --> 01:29:44.700 +that we're trying to accomplish with this. + +01:29:45.820 --> 01:29:46.320 +We are... Okay, you... + +01:29:47.780 --> 01:29:48.280 +Go ahead, Colin. + +01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:49.940 +[Speaker 3]: I can't leave that alone. + +01:29:52.120 --> 01:29:52.420 +I almost came in there on the previous point. + +01:29:55.020 --> 01:29:55.240 +Yeah, I actually Completely agree with that + +01:29:58.900 --> 01:29:59.140 +Leo. That's something that and I mean to be + +01:30:02.780 --> 01:30:03.240 +fair. I owe a good I owe dev al a good email + +01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:06.160 +on this topic, but we desperately need more + +01:30:07.840 --> 01:30:08.340 +project managers, more solutions architect, + +01:30:10.380 --> 01:30:10.880 +more business process analysts, + +01:30:12.660 --> 01:30:13.160 +more systems analysts, + +01:30:15.100 --> 01:30:15.560 +more, you know, and the best tech, + +01:30:17.900 --> 01:30:18.400 +you know, some of the best threads start with + +01:30:23.100 --> 01:30:23.420 +quite a bit of an analytical work done on the + +01:30:24.940 --> 01:30:25.440 +part of an engineer who's come along. + +01:30:29.320 --> 01:30:29.680 +But actually, Larry Wall has this quote, + +01:30:31.640 --> 01:30:32.140 +right? Where he says, consider 3 solutions + +01:30:34.120 --> 01:30:34.300 +and build 1. And I think we struggle with + +01:30:36.760 --> 01:30:37.260 +that as a community because getting a patch + +01:30:39.920 --> 01:30:40.120 +is a lot of work and a lot to ask for + +01:30:42.900 --> 01:30:43.080 +somebody. So asking 3 people to submit a + +01:30:45.200 --> 01:30:45.260 +patch means you're saying no to a lot of + +01:30:47.280 --> 01:30:47.560 +blood, sweat and tears on the part of like 2 + +01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:49.460 +people, maybe 2 teams of people. + +01:30:55.520 --> 01:30:56.020 +[Speaker 5]: And 1 thing I think is a big expansion is + +01:31:02.020 --> 01:31:02.520 +usability and user experience design. + +01:31:05.560 --> 01:31:05.900 +I think, and not in the sense like, + +01:31:08.260 --> 01:31:08.760 +you know, CUA mode or, + +01:31:12.440 --> 01:31:12.560 +you know, people don't realize that Emacs key + +01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:14.180 +bindings are actually ergonomic, + +01:31:16.720 --> 01:31:17.220 +but more, you know, like for myself, + +01:31:20.240 --> 01:31:20.740 +I did a lot of work in sort of bringing out + +01:31:24.480 --> 01:31:24.880 +Emacs features and did a lot of things + +01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:26.740 +creating this info doc, + +01:31:28.940 --> 01:31:29.100 +you know, which is sort of like Space Max or + +01:31:30.300 --> 01:31:30.800 +something in the old days. + +01:31:33.900 --> 01:31:34.200 +But the process, yeah, + +01:31:38.600 --> 01:31:39.100 +kept a lot of that from ever making it into + +01:31:40.460 --> 01:31:40.680 +CoreDMX and, you know, + +01:31:44.180 --> 01:31:44.680 +just a lack of time on my part to follow up. + +01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:47.060 +But if you had somebody, + +01:31:51.220 --> 01:31:51.500 +you know, who sort of coalesced all the + +01:31:52.820 --> 01:31:53.260 +technical work on like, + +01:31:56.280 --> 01:31:56.480 +here's how we can put it together and make it + +01:32:01.320 --> 01:32:01.820 +more accessible, I've seen that go a long way + +01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:03.300 +in certain environments. + +01:32:06.100 --> 01:32:06.340 +And I imagine, you know, + +01:32:08.160 --> 01:32:08.660 +it's just not the experience of, + +01:32:11.180 --> 01:32:11.680 +you know, most people on the core team. + +01:32:14.620 --> 01:32:15.060 +[Speaker 7]: Yeah, for sure. I mean, + +01:32:16.160 --> 01:32:16.560 +We don't have, I mean, + +01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:18.900 +we're mostly a bunch, we're a bunch of + +01:32:20.080 --> 01:32:20.280 +programmers. That's what we are, + +01:32:22.640 --> 01:32:22.800 +right? We don't have graphical signers or any + +01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:24.620 +of the stuff that you're talking about. + +01:32:28.380 --> 01:32:28.580 +So we don't have really any UX experts on + +01:32:30.380 --> 01:32:30.800 +board. So perhaps that would be welcome. + +01:32:35.460 --> 01:32:35.960 +But then again, how do you even fit the EMAX + +01:32:38.880 --> 01:32:39.280 +paradigm into what is typically taught and + +01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:41.120 +discussed in UX? I mean, + +01:32:43.220 --> 01:32:43.380 +maybe there is a way. I'm sure there are + +01:32:45.640 --> 01:32:45.920 +general principles and a lot that we could + +01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:48.380 +learn, But then there is also like this, + +01:32:52.240 --> 01:32:52.440 +we have to stay true to what Emacs is to some + +01:32:53.940 --> 01:32:54.400 +extent and what does that look like + +01:32:56.320 --> 01:32:56.580 +concretely. There are discussions to be had + +01:32:58.620 --> 01:32:59.120 +for sure, but we would definitely benefit + +01:33:02.900 --> 01:33:03.400 +from that type of specific input. + +01:33:04.360 --> 01:33:04.480 +[Speaker 3]: Well, I + +01:33:06.940 --> 01:33:07.240 +[Speaker 5]: mean, like a simple example today is I looked + +01:33:09.720 --> 01:33:09.900 +at the conference guidelines I always stay in + +01:33:13.160 --> 01:33:13.420 +dark mode and it said well use light mode for + +01:33:16.220 --> 01:33:16.420 +your presentation so okay I'll switch to + +01:33:19.280 --> 01:33:19.480 +light mode let me load a theme so I go into + +01:33:21.280 --> 01:33:21.780 +all the default themes and, + +01:33:23.900 --> 01:33:24.400 +you know, start going through the light ones + +01:33:28.080 --> 01:33:28.580 +and then I check all the faces and, + +01:33:31.120 --> 01:33:31.620 +you know, there are at least 3 to 5 faces + +01:33:35.160 --> 01:33:35.600 +that have nearly invisible text as a result + +01:33:38.480 --> 01:33:38.980 +of the background highlighting on them. + +01:33:40.080 --> 01:33:40.460 +And I'm like, you know, + +01:33:43.380 --> 01:33:43.680 +so there's low hanging fruit like that where + +01:33:46.840 --> 01:33:47.020 +people would deal with the structure of the + +01:33:49.400 --> 01:33:49.900 +menus, the actual faces, + +01:33:53.120 --> 01:33:53.620 +the themes, that don't have to do anything + +01:33:57.840 --> 01:33:58.060 +affecting core Emacs except make the + +01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:00.460 +presentation much better. + +01:34:03.380 --> 01:34:03.640 +[Speaker 7]: Yeah, definitely. If people want to send such + +01:34:06.160 --> 01:34:06.660 +polishing patches for various aspects, + +01:34:09.280 --> 01:34:09.520 +I spent some time making a new help screen. + +01:34:10.520 --> 01:34:10.960 +I don't know if you noticed, + +01:34:12.740 --> 01:34:13.040 +I don't know how many people press Control H, + +01:34:14.160 --> 01:34:14.660 +Control H on their keyboards, + +01:34:17.540 --> 01:34:17.720 +But it's like with new sections and it's + +01:34:18.480 --> 01:34:18.980 +sorted a little bit better. + +01:34:20.500 --> 01:34:20.640 +It didn't take much. I mean, + +01:34:21.660 --> 01:34:22.060 +it took a time obviously, + +01:34:23.940 --> 01:34:24.440 +but it's not like it required some fantastic + +01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:28.260 +technical knowledge or deep expertise in + +01:34:29.200 --> 01:34:29.700 +Emacs Lisp to do that. + +01:34:31.480 --> 01:34:31.980 +It's Basically anyone can do stuff like that. + +01:34:34.200 --> 01:34:34.340 +So definitely if you're interested in doing + +01:34:37.440 --> 01:34:37.680 +that type of work, start discussing with us. + +01:34:41.040 --> 01:34:41.440 +Let's talk about what we can do and get doing + +01:34:41.820 --> 01:34:42.320 +it, really. + +01:34:44.960 --> 01:34:45.140 +[Speaker 4]: Yeah, this is exactly in line with your + +01:34:45.800 --> 01:34:46.240 +presentation from yesterday, + +01:34:47.720 --> 01:34:47.920 +Stefan, as well, because you were just + +01:34:50.160 --> 01:34:50.320 +inviting people who are not contributing to + +01:34:51.380 --> 01:34:51.740 +the core of Emacs to do so. + +01:34:53.200 --> 01:34:53.360 +You were talking to package developer on + +01:34:55.120 --> 01:34:55.440 +MailPub, but you were also talking just about + +01:34:58.200 --> 01:34:58.380 +the average Joe or Jane just doing their own + +01:34:59.580 --> 01:35:00.080 +things or encountering a problem. + +01:35:01.120 --> 01:35:01.280 +Now, yes, we talked about, + +01:35:02.800 --> 01:35:02.960 +oh, you need to build master and all this, + +01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:04.420 +but at the end of the day, + +01:35:06.680 --> 01:35:06.960 +low-hanging fruits like the ones Bob just + +01:35:09.840 --> 01:35:10.120 +described. If everyone does this at the end, + +01:35:11.280 --> 01:35:11.780 +you end up with something that is extremely + +01:35:13.520 --> 01:35:13.620 +polished. Perhaps you do not need to have a + +01:35:14.900 --> 01:35:15.140 +UX specialist to tell you that, + +01:35:18.220 --> 01:35:18.340 +oh, those 2 colors are actually very close to + +01:35:21.220 --> 01:35:21.600 +1 another. I think it's kind of a discussion + +01:35:23.580 --> 01:35:24.020 +about same defaults as well that you had + +01:35:25.080 --> 01:35:25.580 +yesterday. Ultimately, + +01:35:27.340 --> 01:35:27.600 +we do not need... Yes, + +01:35:28.780 --> 01:35:29.040 +we need more programmers in the world. + +01:35:30.480 --> 01:35:30.980 +We want more people to use Emacs. + +01:35:33.740 --> 01:35:34.240 +But you don't know. Like, + +01:35:36.220 --> 01:35:36.500 +is it going to be someone in computer science + +01:35:38.420 --> 01:35:38.620 +that's going to be the next giant on whose + +01:35:39.580 --> 01:35:39.880 +shoulders we're going to stand? + +01:35:41.003 --> 01:35:41.010 +[Speaker 3]: computer science? Is it going to be someone + +01:35:41.066 --> 01:35:41.074 +in computer science that's going to be the + +01:35:41.082 --> 01:35:41.090 +next giant + +01:35:41.137 --> 01:35:41.145 +[Speaker 1]: on whose shoulders we're going to stand? + +01:35:41.184 --> 01:35:41.192 +Is it someone who did not + +01:35:41.192 --> 01:35:41.200 +[Speaker 4]: Is it someone who did not study study + +01:35:42.660 --> 01:35:42.980 +computer science? Is it going to be someone + +01:35:44.060 --> 01:35:44.560 +who did something completely different? + +01:35:46.960 --> 01:35:47.120 +We do not know the prototypical user of + +01:35:49.280 --> 01:35:49.640 +Emacs. We have some idea about the fact that + +01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:51.940 +they might be using you know, + +01:35:52.580 --> 01:35:53.080 +Emacs for their programming, + +01:35:55.560 --> 01:35:55.680 +but more and more, and as is evidenced by the + +01:35:56.420 --> 01:35:56.920 +talks we received with EmacsConf, + +01:36:01.020 --> 01:36:01.360 +it's just people doing writing or taking + +01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:02.420 +notes for their classes. + +01:36:06.340 --> 01:36:06.540 +So it's really interesting to see how and to + +01:36:09.400 --> 01:36:09.480 +explore for us how we can give back to the + +01:36:11.180 --> 01:36:11.600 +core of Emacs in a way that is mutually + +01:36:12.360 --> 01:36:12.700 +constructive because again, + +01:36:14.440 --> 01:36:14.940 +to go back to the philosophy or the political + +01:36:17.400 --> 01:36:17.640 +agenda that we have is for more people to use + +01:36:19.700 --> 01:36:20.200 +software that is not the liberties. + +01:36:20.500 --> 01:36:21.000 +Exactly. + +01:36:24.140 --> 01:36:24.280 +[Speaker 3]: So right. Yeah. I mean, + +01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:26.100 +that's a good spot for me to come right back + +01:36:27.380 --> 01:36:27.720 +in. And that's exactly where I do. + +01:36:30.200 --> 01:36:30.420 +Right. Because that's that's what it's all + +01:36:33.040 --> 01:36:33.540 +about. In the In terms of a tool user, + +01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:37.100 +you know, the evolution of using tools as, + +01:36:38.620 --> 01:36:39.120 +you know, these creatures have fought, + +01:36:42.820 --> 01:36:43.220 +Emacs is fire. Emacs is the ability to learn + +01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:46.320 +languages, the ability to manipulate other + +01:36:48.140 --> 01:36:48.640 +tools. I mean, it's almost like, + +01:36:50.680 --> 01:36:51.140 +you know, God Emperor of Dune level, + +01:36:53.720 --> 01:36:54.140 +you know, some Frank Herbert type of powers + +01:36:56.480 --> 01:36:56.680 +that you have over your computer and you are + +01:36:58.460 --> 01:36:58.740 +not required to understand how all those + +01:37:02.440 --> 01:37:02.940 +things work. So from a support standpoint + +01:37:04.540 --> 01:37:04.840 +that puts us in a challenging position, + +01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:06.720 +right? I spend a lot of time on Pound Emacs + +01:37:07.760 --> 01:37:08.040 +and the questions that go by there, + +01:37:09.840 --> 01:37:09.960 +I feel bad for people that feel like they + +01:37:12.600 --> 01:37:12.720 +have to answer every question that goes by in + +01:37:14.060 --> 01:37:14.500 +the channel because no 1 could. + +01:37:16.640 --> 01:37:17.080 +No 1 can give an intelligent answer to the, + +01:37:18.040 --> 01:37:18.540 +you know, everything from, + +01:37:21.260 --> 01:37:21.440 +Hey, how do I change my default font on this + +01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:24.020 +operating system? You've never heard of to, + +01:37:26.140 --> 01:37:26.480 +you know, how do you know this list code? + +01:37:28.040 --> 01:37:28.340 +That's 40 lines long doesn't work. + +01:37:30.040 --> 01:37:30.260 +And I think it was a recent change that was + +01:37:31.720 --> 01:37:32.220 +made to the P case macro. + +01:37:39.480 --> 01:37:39.980 +Do you agree? Right? And as deep as that, + +01:37:42.740 --> 01:37:43.240 +well is, if you turn it 90 degrees, + +01:37:45.040 --> 01:37:45.200 +the Emacs is that kind of tool to the + +01:37:46.080 --> 01:37:46.400 +operating system level. + +01:37:48.800 --> 01:37:49.280 +It's letting me walk across to other systems, + +01:37:51.360 --> 01:37:51.780 +multi-hop, become the super user, + +01:37:55.120 --> 01:37:55.620 +right? And, you know, the just the power, + +01:37:57.600 --> 01:37:58.020 +the amplification of power there, + +01:38:02.320 --> 01:38:02.820 +it's like the lever combined with the magnet, + +01:38:08.140 --> 01:38:08.640 +etc, etc. I mean, just, + +01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:14.960 +yeah, I don't know. So I guess where we kind + +01:38:16.260 --> 01:38:16.640 +of jump off, where that gets stuck, + +01:38:18.580 --> 01:38:18.740 +right, is trying to change something like the + +01:38:19.760 --> 01:38:20.260 +defaults in the user experience. + +01:38:22.740 --> 01:38:23.240 +So I imagine, you know, + +01:38:26.580 --> 01:38:26.920 +we don't get 1 great idea about user + +01:38:28.020 --> 01:38:28.520 +experience, we'll get 3, + +01:38:30.240 --> 01:38:30.480 +right? And then Once again, + +01:38:32.980 --> 01:38:33.400 +we have to send our brave developers off to + +01:38:36.220 --> 01:38:36.440 +build 1 to 3 patches, some of which won't see + +01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:41.140 +the light of day. I think that's where the + +01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:42.420 +breakthrough is needed. + +01:38:46.680 --> 01:38:47.180 +Another evolution in the packaging thought, + +01:38:48.620 --> 01:38:49.120 +or maybe it's not packaging. + +01:38:50.920 --> 01:38:51.380 +Maybe it's the compilation step. + +01:38:52.800 --> 01:38:53.220 +Maybe it's the distribution step. + +01:38:56.120 --> 01:38:56.280 +Maybe we want the Debians of the world to + +01:38:59.220 --> 01:38:59.540 +deliver Emacs as 2 different pieces now. + +01:39:03.540 --> 01:39:03.700 +And there's a UX piece that we want you to + +01:39:05.280 --> 01:39:05.780 +package each 1 that you package, + +01:39:09.060 --> 01:39:09.240 +each 1 per window manager that you support or + +01:39:11.380 --> 01:39:11.660 +at the intersection of each window manager + +01:39:12.940 --> 01:39:13.300 +and display manager you port. + +01:39:15.200 --> 01:39:15.300 +And the other one's just the server and you + +01:39:17.040 --> 01:39:17.280 +don't even have to package that if I'm only + +01:39:19.680 --> 01:39:20.020 +offering the CLI or there's a you know like + +01:39:21.960 --> 01:39:22.280 +I'm making all this up and I can't code a + +01:39:23.760 --> 01:39:24.260 +single thing like what I just said, + +01:39:26.920 --> 01:39:27.420 +but I think that there's a technical + +01:39:31.640 --> 01:39:32.140 +opportunity. Pretty high level for technical + +01:39:35.020 --> 01:39:35.520 +there of just thinking about a way to accept + +01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:40.680 +contributions of experience with maybe a + +01:39:43.780 --> 01:39:44.280 +little less rigor and a little less ground + +01:39:44.900 --> 01:39:45.400 +into the marble. + +01:39:50.400 --> 01:39:50.800 +[Speaker 5]: Yeah it makes me think of somebody at work + +01:39:54.220 --> 01:39:54.340 +just brought up pair programming and he's in + +01:39:58.080 --> 01:39:58.580 +love with it. He wants to pair up and do it, + +01:40:01.120 --> 01:40:01.620 +which is not true of all programmers. + +01:40:05.800 --> 01:40:06.300 +But I said, okay, so you spearhead that. + +01:40:10.680 --> 01:40:10.900 +If we, I think it is a very high barrier to + +01:40:13.580 --> 01:40:13.780 +get your patches in because of course they + +01:40:15.420 --> 01:40:15.860 +need to meet the quality standard of Emacs. + +01:40:20.800 --> 01:40:21.300 +So if people who are doing day-to-day + +01:40:24.200 --> 01:40:24.700 +understand that process and can do it well, + +01:40:28.200 --> 01:40:28.540 +could work with some of the people who can't + +01:40:30.040 --> 01:40:30.540 +quite contribute at that level, + +01:40:35.020 --> 01:40:35.240 +but have ideas that are on the level that + +01:40:39.780 --> 01:40:40.280 +should go in, pairing them up could really + +01:40:41.420 --> 01:40:41.920 +move a lot of that forward. + +01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:46.500 +Like Lars, I don't know what his, + +01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:50.500 +I get the feeling maybe he's retired. + +01:40:54.960 --> 01:40:55.380 +So, you know, maybe he has some time, + +01:40:58.300 --> 01:40:58.640 +you know, and he's really good at going back + +01:41:00.320 --> 01:41:00.480 +in and saying, you know, + +01:41:02.400 --> 01:41:02.480 +these areas haven't gotten attention in a + +01:41:05.660 --> 01:41:05.900 +while, so I'm going to go kill some bugs and + +01:41:08.160 --> 01:41:08.660 +look at them and fix them up. + +01:41:13.640 --> 01:41:13.840 +So I would think he would be good to do that + +01:41:15.340 --> 01:41:15.480 +with someone. But you know, + +01:41:22.400 --> 01:41:22.740 +Again, I've got years of code that would just + +01:41:25.320 --> 01:41:25.760 +require somebody to work through it to update + +01:41:28.340 --> 01:41:28.660 +to the latest code base and diff against it. + +01:41:30.080 --> 01:41:30.480 +But it does things like, + +01:41:32.960 --> 01:41:33.420 +I mean, like if anybody used RMAIL anymore, + +01:41:36.200 --> 01:41:36.700 +I made the summary mode of RMAIL exactly + +01:41:40.080 --> 01:41:40.580 +compatible key-wise with the main buffer, + +01:41:43.140 --> 01:41:43.260 +which it never was, and fixed a number of + +01:41:46.120 --> 01:41:46.620 +other features. Dured made operations + +01:41:49.340 --> 01:41:49.480 +reversible, where you mark something and you + +01:41:51.420 --> 01:41:51.920 +unmark it, and you can go up and down. + +01:41:53.160 --> 01:41:53.480 +And there are all these little + +01:41:56.260 --> 01:41:56.760 +incompatibilities that kind of add up across + +01:42:00.120 --> 01:42:00.620 +time, and they never seem to get addressed. + +01:42:06.180 --> 01:42:06.480 +We could just fix them and people would start + +01:42:09.400 --> 01:42:09.640 +to say, oh, this is smoother and they are + +01:42:12.580 --> 01:42:12.820 +getting more of that experience because it + +01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:15.560 +feels like the systems maybe 80, + +01:42:20.740 --> 01:42:21.240 +85% of the way there in a lot of thoughtful + +01:42:26.040 --> 01:42:26.200 +design. But that last 15% could be the + +01:42:29.640 --> 01:42:30.100 +difference between an iPhone and an Android + +01:42:32.260 --> 01:42:32.760 +phone of usability-wise. + +01:42:38.720 --> 01:42:38.940 +So that's a thought. That's a + +01:42:41.100 --> 01:42:41.240 +[Speaker 3]: brilliant idea, and it probably can be + +01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:43.340 +applied far wider than emacs. + +01:42:46.060 --> 01:42:46.320 +That's something that that FSF should + +01:42:48.480 --> 01:42:48.980 +consider suggesting across, + +01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:50.420 +you know, GNU packages, + +01:42:54.280 --> 01:42:54.600 +for example, like a matchmaking project seems + +01:42:56.520 --> 01:42:56.880 +like something that FSF community teams + +01:43:04.020 --> 01:43:04.110 +should think about. Yeah, + +01:43:04.360 --> 01:43:04.520 +I was going + +01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:05.420 +[Speaker 1]: That's so... to say also, + +01:43:08.080 --> 01:43:08.140 +I noticed that the name Debian came up a + +01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:10.260 +while ago and now we were talking about + +01:43:14.540 --> 01:43:15.040 +programming and such and Mentoring maybe and + +01:43:17.960 --> 01:43:18.320 +Debian has this service or part of their site + +01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:20.100 +or community called Mentors. + +01:43:22.120 --> 01:43:22.620 +They have a website, mentors.debian.net, + +01:43:26.920 --> 01:43:27.100 +where the idea is that people who want to get + +01:43:28.100 --> 01:43:28.480 +into contributing to Debian, + +01:43:29.580 --> 01:43:30.080 +for example, to package things, + +01:43:33.200 --> 01:43:33.480 +but obviously don't have upload rights right + +01:43:35.720 --> 01:43:36.000 +away. This is where they can go to, + +01:43:38.460 --> 01:43:38.760 +and this is separate from their mailing list + +01:43:42.340 --> 01:43:42.580 +or bug trackers. They can basically build + +01:43:44.760 --> 01:43:45.260 +their changed packages and upload them here, + +01:43:48.220 --> 01:43:48.480 +and then Debian developers who have commit or + +01:43:51.380 --> 01:43:51.620 +upload rights to the Debian archive can go + +01:43:55.960 --> 01:43:56.120 +and review and give them feedback or ask them + +01:43:57.620 --> 01:43:58.120 +to change something or if it's good, + +01:44:01.620 --> 01:44:01.920 +then just easily upload the package right + +01:44:04.200 --> 01:44:04.440 +from there. And I wonder if it might make + +01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:08.000 +sense to have something kind of like that in + +01:44:10.360 --> 01:44:10.840 +like the context of Emacs or the GNU project + +01:44:13.360 --> 01:44:13.660 +as a whole, where we have like some kind of + +01:44:15.520 --> 01:44:16.020 +a, like loosely defined mentoring thing, + +01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:19.120 +where we could pair up people who are more + +01:44:20.500 --> 01:44:21.000 +experienced, who, for example, + +01:44:22.540 --> 01:44:22.740 +have commit rights in the Emacs core + +01:44:27.080 --> 01:44:27.240 +repository to match them up with someone who + +01:44:29.080 --> 01:44:29.260 +is just making your very first patches or + +01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:31.960 +contributions to Emacs or whatever other GNU + +01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:34.200 +package. Just some food for thought, + +01:44:38.040 --> 01:44:38.540 +[Speaker 5]: Yeah, sounds good. + +01:44:44.340 --> 01:44:44.600 +[Speaker 1]: I guess. Yeah, and then I guess 1 feature of + +01:44:47.360 --> 01:44:47.860 +such a system which would be nice is that it, + +01:44:49.200 --> 01:44:49.340 +at least in terms of, you know, + +01:44:50.380 --> 01:44:50.580 +the mentors that Debbie and that, + +01:44:52.200 --> 01:44:52.700 +that it has a web UI, which, + +01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:56.200 +is nice because mailing lists might be + +01:44:58.140 --> 01:44:58.380 +intimidating for someone who is just getting + +01:44:59.340 --> 01:44:59.840 +started, like in these communities. + +01:45:03.960 --> 01:45:04.200 +Or, you know, just making patches like that, + +01:45:05.440 --> 01:45:05.940 +or just have a series of concrete + +01:45:08.100 --> 01:45:08.320 +instructions. Like with mentors at + +01:45:11.100 --> 01:45:11.200 +Devian.net, I feel like you can't go wrong in + +01:45:13.820 --> 01:45:14.240 +terms of finding the steps of figuring out + +01:45:16.260 --> 01:45:16.500 +what you need to do to put together some + +01:45:19.040 --> 01:45:19.240 +change. Which I think the same idea could + +01:45:20.280 --> 01:45:20.740 +apply to Emacs, for example, + +01:45:20.860 --> 01:45:21.360 +as well. + +01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:24.960 +[Speaker 7]: I think this is a good point about lowering + +01:45:27.440 --> 01:45:27.620 +barriers, and how email is a barrier to + +01:45:28.860 --> 01:45:29.240 +people. I mean, so on the 1 hand, + +01:45:31.100 --> 01:45:31.320 +you have us guys on Emacs level, + +01:45:32.860 --> 01:45:33.360 +we're very used to the email workflow. + +01:45:35.140 --> 01:45:35.500 +Like we're not just using it for fun. + +01:45:37.040 --> 01:45:37.160 +You know what I mean? Like this is a + +01:45:38.320 --> 01:45:38.820 +workhorse. It really is. + +01:45:41.400 --> 01:45:41.840 +And it's tried, it's battled, + +01:45:42.900 --> 01:45:43.300 +tested. It has some quirks, + +01:45:45.140 --> 01:45:45.340 +but we know them extremely well on the other + +01:45:48.060 --> 01:45:48.380 +hand. So, but still we want more people + +01:45:50.700 --> 01:45:50.880 +involved, right? And we realized that, + +01:45:52.760 --> 01:45:52.960 +you know, times are changing as well. + +01:45:54.720 --> 01:45:54.900 +And people are more used to doing stuff from + +01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:56.140 +the web browser, perhaps. + +01:46:00.040 --> 01:46:00.320 +So we do want to move to a forge, + +01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:02.420 +or at least start looking into that. + +01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:04.060 +But there are some obstacles. + +01:46:06.060 --> 01:46:06.280 +So we are looking for volunteers to do that + +01:46:07.360 --> 01:46:07.580 +work. I'm not just saying it, + +01:46:08.640 --> 01:46:09.140 +like we are very serious. + +01:46:11.660 --> 01:46:11.760 +I'm very seriously asking people in the + +01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:13.020 +community to consider, + +01:46:14.920 --> 01:46:15.280 +hey, could you dedicate some time? + +01:46:18.660 --> 01:46:18.900 +I mean, it will take some dedication for sure + +01:46:20.600 --> 01:46:20.820 +it will take some time and it will take some + +01:46:23.040 --> 01:46:23.300 +describe probably even you know Be prepared + +01:46:24.760 --> 01:46:25.260 +to be frustrated at times right, + +01:46:26.980 --> 01:46:27.180 +but if you're serious about doing that type + +01:46:28.040 --> 01:46:28.260 +of work, okay now + +01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:32.900 +[Speaker 3]: I believe you Well, I'm just I'm just teasing + +01:46:35.900 --> 01:46:36.140 +but but but yes exactly any I mean it's it's + +01:46:38.560 --> 01:46:39.060 +not even a joke right Any serious undertaking + +01:46:41.420 --> 01:46:41.920 +having to do with any free software project, + +01:46:45.300 --> 01:46:45.600 +just because we are open to the entire world + +01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:48.160 +and we pride ourselves on trying to take + +01:46:50.020 --> 01:46:50.460 +seriously all input. And if it's a logical + +01:46:51.940 --> 01:46:52.040 +argument, then we'll go ahead and take the + +01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:53.200 +time to combat with you, + +01:46:54.960 --> 01:46:55.180 +even though the maintainer has 300 other + +01:46:57.260 --> 01:46:57.760 +things to do. Like, man, + +01:46:58.280 --> 01:46:58.740 +this + +01:47:00.020 --> 01:47:00.280 +[Speaker 7]: is just the way it is, + +01:47:02.840 --> 01:47:03.160 +right? It just, It's not like Emacs is way + +01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:07.460 +harder to change than any other project of + +01:47:08.680 --> 01:47:09.180 +its longevity and size. + +01:47:10.800 --> 01:47:11.100 +It's just these things take time. + +01:47:13.420 --> 01:47:13.920 +Try getting a change into Debian. + +01:47:15.060 --> 01:47:15.460 +That's an uphill battle. + +01:47:16.960 --> 01:47:17.460 +I don't even know where to start with that. + +01:47:19.540 --> 01:47:20.040 +That's huge, right? And I have tremendous + +01:47:21.640 --> 01:47:21.820 +respect for the people doing that type of + +01:47:22.760 --> 01:47:23.260 +work because it takes dedication, + +01:47:26.280 --> 01:47:26.440 +it takes effort. So we really need someone to + +01:47:27.180 --> 01:47:27.600 +step up from the community, + +01:47:29.760 --> 01:47:30.060 +I think, to be a champion for something like + +01:47:33.160 --> 01:47:33.600 +this and work together with us on Emacs Devil + +01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:38.200 +and off Emacs Devil, probably with me and Eli + +01:47:40.320 --> 01:47:40.600 +and perhaps some other people that could be + +01:47:41.820 --> 01:47:42.280 +in the mail thread, and we could coordinate + +01:47:44.620 --> 01:47:44.960 +this type of work. I would be super excited + +01:47:46.560 --> 01:47:47.060 +if someone wanted to get the ball rolling. + +01:47:48.480 --> 01:47:48.980 +I can't do everything. + +01:47:51.100 --> 01:47:51.340 +I wish I could. Like, I thought about it. + +01:47:52.840 --> 01:47:53.000 +Should I just put everything to the side and + +01:47:53.860 --> 01:47:54.000 +do this? But then, I mean, + +01:47:54.800 --> 01:47:55.080 +there are some, there are other + +01:47:56.040 --> 01:47:56.400 +responsibilities as well. + +01:47:57.740 --> 01:47:58.040 +So we need someone to step up. + +01:47:58.520 --> 01:47:59.020 +We need help here. + +01:48:03.220 --> 01:48:03.460 +[Speaker 3]: you're gonna speak. I was totally gonna pick + +01:48:04.120 --> 01:48:04.620 +on you. Go ahead. + +01:48:05.540 --> 01:48:05.820 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so. Oh, good, Thanks, + +01:48:06.540 --> 01:48:06.860 +yeah, I was just gonna say, + +01:48:08.460 --> 01:48:08.960 +yeah, I echo Stefan's sentiments. + +01:48:11.680 --> 01:48:11.960 +And that, yeah, in terms of like maybe + +01:48:14.020 --> 01:48:14.080 +experimenting with a different Forge or a + +01:48:15.280 --> 01:48:15.600 +better Forge and like, + +01:48:16.124 --> 01:48:16.296 +you know, supplementing Savannah. + +01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:17.140 +And supplementing Savannah. + +01:48:20.860 --> 01:48:20.920 +I actually did some initial work a couple of + +01:48:23.240 --> 01:48:23.740 +months ago to get a SourceFed instance + +01:48:24.860 --> 01:48:25.360 +installed for the new project. + +01:48:28.440 --> 01:48:28.660 +And I've done some work on and off, + +01:48:29.340 --> 01:48:29.760 +but then life happens, + +01:48:32.140 --> 01:48:32.640 +especially from September onwards. + +01:48:35.240 --> 01:48:35.500 +But even from earlier in the year, + +01:48:36.460 --> 01:48:36.960 +the project has been semi-dormant, + +01:48:38.740 --> 01:48:39.240 +but I have been meaning to get to that. + +01:48:42.740 --> 01:48:42.900 +So I'm like 1 such person who's interested in + +01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:44.960 +that type of work and driving it forward and + +01:48:47.640 --> 01:48:47.880 +I would love you know if anyone's and anyone + +01:48:50.820 --> 01:48:50.980 +else has the kind of time and energy and the + +01:48:52.760 --> 01:48:53.260 +interest to help with something like that. + +01:48:55.280 --> 01:48:55.780 +Yes, please reach out to all of us, + +01:48:56.880 --> 01:48:57.380 +to Emacs core developers, + +01:48:58.100 --> 01:48:58.600 +of course, and to myself. + +01:49:01.840 --> 01:49:02.340 +This is something that could be very useful, + +01:49:04.960 --> 01:49:05.460 +not just for GNU Emacs and Emacs developers, + +01:49:09.760 --> 01:49:10.240 +but also for any other GNU package as well. + +01:49:13.040 --> 01:49:13.480 +So yeah, that's 1 area of potential + +01:49:15.660 --> 01:49:16.060 +contribution and 1 thing that we sort of, + +01:49:17.860 --> 01:49:18.340 +I guess, regularly meet with the FSF + +01:49:20.140 --> 01:49:20.640 +sysadmins to discuss these kinds of projects + +01:49:22.120 --> 01:49:22.620 +and things as Corwin would know. + +01:49:24.520 --> 01:49:24.720 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah, that's kind of, I mean, + +01:49:26.280 --> 01:49:26.420 +you knew exactly where I was going to, + +01:49:27.960 --> 01:49:28.420 +and I'm glad that you volunteered yourself + +01:49:30.040 --> 01:49:30.540 +personally because that's the best choice. + +01:49:32.320 --> 01:49:32.820 +If you're hearing this and you're thinking, + +01:49:35.760 --> 01:49:36.260 +you know, maybe I should do some sysop stuff, + +01:49:38.200 --> 01:49:38.700 +literally reach out to Amin. + +01:49:41.040 --> 01:49:41.420 +And because it's complicated, + +01:49:43.040 --> 01:49:43.320 +there are a lot of projects to volunteer for. + +01:49:44.120 --> 01:49:44.620 +They're all very worthy. + +01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:49.020 +And it's sort of political to figure out what + +01:49:52.760 --> 01:49:53.000 +we're gonna try to change for whom first to + +01:49:55.940 --> 01:49:56.260 +demonstrate we can do all the things we wanna + +01:49:58.320 --> 01:49:58.440 +do to make it better without losing all the + +01:50:00.340 --> 01:50:00.540 +things that are important about how it is + +01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:04.480 +today. And we'll do it in a measured way like + +01:50:06.500 --> 01:50:06.760 +everybody's just like room full of rocking + +01:50:09.640 --> 01:50:09.780 +chairs everybody's got a long tail it's a + +01:50:12.340 --> 01:50:12.620 +hard project but you will do something that + +01:50:15.380 --> 01:50:15.540 +just a lot like as a Savannah hacker which I + +01:50:17.920 --> 01:50:18.240 +am with Amin So that's how I know about his + +01:50:20.080 --> 01:50:20.340 +work on that project. We worked together on + +01:50:22.300 --> 01:50:22.800 +the Savannah Forge. I'm aware of his work + +01:50:26.660 --> 01:50:26.980 +piloting SourceHut recently and just with a + +01:50:29.020 --> 01:50:29.240 +working group there to look at the next + +01:50:30.540 --> 01:50:31.040 +generation of forges for GNU. + +01:50:34.160 --> 01:50:34.340 +Emacs of course as a GNU package could go do + +01:50:36.540 --> 01:50:36.820 +its own thing. FFS would most likely give + +01:50:38.360 --> 01:50:38.560 +cash to go do its own thing, + +01:50:39.720 --> 01:50:39.860 +even if it didn't like it. + +01:50:41.140 --> 01:50:41.520 +We know, you know, as a, + +01:50:42.800 --> 01:50:43.260 +like if I put on, I'm not FSF, + +01:50:44.260 --> 01:50:44.600 +but if I put on that hat, + +01:50:45.800 --> 01:50:46.300 +I imagine that we must know. + +01:50:50.020 --> 01:50:50.200 +Emacs is a flagship thing that people in the + +01:50:52.420 --> 01:50:52.800 +real world depend on. If I get this ancient + +01:50:55.320 --> 01:50:55.820 +computer, I get a working Linux distribution + +01:50:59.340 --> 01:50:59.500 +and Emacs. Maybe it's not Microsoft Word as a + +01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:01.300 +word processor, but you guys, + +01:51:03.080 --> 01:51:03.580 +you can learn a language on it for sure, + +01:51:05.600 --> 01:51:05.800 +you know And you can do your homework on it + +01:51:08.300 --> 01:51:08.680 +and you know It's it makes your you can edit + +01:51:10.580 --> 01:51:10.960 +things and then you can edit your system + +01:51:13.900 --> 01:51:14.340 +files and teach yourself how to manage a GNU + +01:51:17.860 --> 01:51:18.040 +system and you can You know so Emacs is + +01:51:19.540 --> 01:51:19.840 +really powerful as a practical tool. + +01:51:21.560 --> 01:51:21.720 +Like I keep coming back to that point when I + +01:51:25.040 --> 01:51:25.320 +think about Emacs, like I really put it as + +01:51:27.380 --> 01:51:27.880 +like, it's an important tool on the like + +01:51:31.780 --> 01:51:32.080 +humans inventing tools level just because it + +01:51:35.080 --> 01:51:35.280 +lets me make this editor into whatever I need + +01:51:37.580 --> 01:51:38.080 +it to be to get my actual work done. + +01:51:39.520 --> 01:51:39.860 +Whether that's getting the length, + +01:51:41.460 --> 01:51:41.600 +maybe that's making the font big enough that + +01:51:43.260 --> 01:51:43.380 +I can see it, or making it easy enough to + +01:51:44.760 --> 01:51:45.060 +change from this font to that font, + +01:51:45.920 --> 01:51:46.420 +changing the background colors, + +01:51:47.960 --> 01:51:48.460 +like your basic vision, + +01:51:49.960 --> 01:51:50.460 +accessibility issues, right? + +01:51:52.740 --> 01:51:53.120 +All, you know, solved, + +01:51:55.080 --> 01:51:55.320 +I can bake that customization in and I can + +01:51:56.320 --> 01:51:56.580 +pretty much depend on, + +01:51:57.900 --> 01:51:58.400 +no matter what we change in Emacs, + +01:51:59.760 --> 01:52:00.140 +I'm gonna accept the new version, + +01:52:01.920 --> 01:52:02.220 +it's gonna be on the next computer I get, + +01:52:03.840 --> 01:52:04.000 +I'm going to install the package and my + +01:52:05.920 --> 01:52:06.100 +configuration that sets all that up will be + +01:52:10.960 --> 01:52:11.100 +there for me. Right? It's like back to + +01:52:13.300 --> 01:52:13.780 +Stefan's point, what, 6 and a half hours ago, + +01:52:16.120 --> 01:52:16.620 +I mean, you know, 20 minutes ago about + +01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:24.180 +just... Oh gosh, I lost it. + +01:52:27.980 --> 01:52:28.260 +Boy, I really thought I had handed that + +01:52:29.020 --> 01:52:29.520 +neatly back to you. + +01:52:36.040 --> 01:52:36.220 +[Speaker 1]: No problem, Yeah, I think we're in general in + +01:52:36.220 --> 01:52:36.720 +agreement. + +01:52:41.980 --> 01:52:42.480 +[Speaker 4]: If we are now in the realm of Concord, + +01:52:44.800 --> 01:52:44.960 +of harmony, and the realm of midnight in + +01:52:47.560 --> 01:52:47.720 +Europe, Should we bring this discussion to a + +01:52:49.200 --> 01:52:49.460 +close or we could go all night, + +01:52:51.180 --> 01:52:51.500 +but I'll need to explain to my employer why + +01:52:52.720 --> 01:52:53.220 +my eyes are barely open tomorrow. + +01:52:56.600 --> 01:52:57.100 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea. + +01:52:59.960 --> 01:53:00.460 +I see some folks starting to slowly sign off. + +01:53:02.740 --> 01:53:03.060 +[Speaker 0]: Yeah, also, you know, Leo, + +01:53:04.680 --> 01:53:05.180 +you could leave and just miss out. + +01:53:05.460 --> 01:53:05.960 +What? + +01:53:13.620 --> 01:53:13.820 +[Speaker 7]: Hey, Sasha, can I say something like what an + +01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:16.020 +amazing job with everything you're doing in + +01:53:16.960 --> 01:53:17.300 +the community over the years? + +01:53:18.820 --> 01:53:19.240 +I'm so impressed with Emacs News. + +01:53:22.020 --> 01:53:22.160 +What a great resource to stay up to date in + +01:53:24.720 --> 01:53:24.760 +Emacs. Just really hats off to you for a + +01:53:25.080 --> 01:53:25.580 +whole lot. + +01:53:26.680 --> 01:53:26.880 +[Speaker 3]: Thank you + +01:53:29.440 --> 01:53:29.700 +[Speaker 0]: very much. It actually turned out to be quite + +01:53:31.840 --> 01:53:32.220 +timely that John Wheatley had suggested it + +01:53:35.020 --> 01:53:35.140 +back when he was maintainer because when I + +01:53:36.980 --> 01:53:37.200 +had the kiddo, I suddenly had 0 time to + +01:53:38.000 --> 01:53:38.440 +actually write new things. + +01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:39.840 +But reading things is fine. + +01:53:41.820 --> 01:53:42.040 +I can just speed read all the Reddit things + +01:53:43.160 --> 01:53:43.660 +and put the links together. + +01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:46.300 +So I'm very glad that Emacs news is helpful. + +01:53:49.080 --> 01:53:49.580 +[Speaker 7]: it really is, yeah. + +01:53:55.380 --> 01:53:55.880 +[Speaker 3]: It is, So, okay, now let's try to go for our + +01:54:00.040 --> 01:54:00.480 +closing thoughts here while Leo's still here. + +01:54:01.740 --> 01:54:02.140 +And then if we wanna keep rolling, + +01:54:04.760 --> 01:54:05.260 +even after Leo drops, we won't tell him, + +01:54:06.420 --> 01:54:06.920 +we'll tell him we're stuck. + +01:54:12.380 --> 01:54:12.540 +[Speaker 4]: I guess that was a beacon to me to perhaps go + +01:54:14.140 --> 01:54:14.440 +for the second close of the day I've already + +01:54:18.080 --> 01:54:18.380 +done it I can do it again But I will prove + +01:54:19.300 --> 01:54:19.480 +Sasha wrong this time. + +01:54:21.020 --> 01:54:21.520 +I will miss out if need be because really, + +01:54:24.160 --> 01:54:24.660 +I have been very impressed with the sleep + +01:54:28.700 --> 01:54:29.120 +record that you had and I am very envious + +01:54:32.040 --> 01:54:32.220 +right now of your past ability to sleep more + +01:54:33.160 --> 01:54:33.380 +than 9 hours per night. + +01:54:35.440 --> 01:54:35.560 +And I wish I would be able to go back to + +01:54:37.300 --> 01:54:37.800 +this. But anyway, folks, + +01:54:38.560 --> 01:54:39.060 +I'm going to drop out. + +01:54:40.520 --> 01:54:40.680 +People might hang out for a little while + +01:54:42.360 --> 01:54:42.520 +longer. Bear in mind that Sasha might get + +01:54:44.480 --> 01:54:44.980 +called at any point to go take care of Kido. + +01:54:47.220 --> 01:54:47.720 +So this might wrap up very fast afterwards. + +01:54:49.780 --> 01:54:49.920 +But at any rate, it was my pleasure to be the + +01:54:51.420 --> 01:54:51.820 +host today. Stefan, thank you for joining. + +01:54:53.520 --> 01:54:54.020 +Bob, thank you for joining and interacting + +01:54:56.040 --> 01:54:56.320 +with us and making this a little more + +01:54:58.860 --> 01:54:59.020 +interactive and more plural than just the + +01:55:01.260 --> 01:55:01.760 +co-organizers. And on that note, + +01:55:03.640 --> 01:55:03.900 +I will be leaving. So have a wonderful night, + +01:55:05.860 --> 01:55:06.020 +everyone. And we'll see you next year for the + +01:55:06.740 --> 01:55:07.240 +next edition, potentially. + +01:55:09.560 --> 01:55:10.060 +[Speaker 3]: Thank you, Leo. You're my hero. + +01:55:11.580 --> 01:55:12.040 +I take everything I said on mumble back. + +01:55:12.280 --> 01:55:12.780 +You're amazing. + +01:55:14.840 --> 01:55:15.340 +[Speaker 4]: bye everyone. + +01:55:16.400 --> 01:55:16.680 +[Speaker 1]: All right, Thank you all. + +01:55:17.960 --> 01:55:18.220 +Take care. Bye. I will + +01:55:20.200 --> 01:55:20.580 +[Speaker 6]: also say bye bye. I also need to go to bed. + +01:55:22.200 --> 01:55:22.700 +Thank you all for this cool conference and + +01:55:24.920 --> 01:55:25.080 +hopefully we're here through the year and at + +01:55:25.900 --> 01:55:26.400 +least in 1 year. + +01:55:30.900 --> 01:55:31.400 +[Speaker 3]: You've probably made the rest of the rest of + +01:55:34.440 --> 01:55:34.700 +the victorious. You really stepped up. + +01:55:38.300 --> 01:55:38.800 +[Speaker 5]: your contributions. + +01:55:38.980 --> 01:55:39.220 +[Speaker 3]: Thanks so much for Yeah, + +01:55:40.580 --> 01:55:40.960 +[Speaker 1]: thanks so much for being a part of it, + +01:55:41.720 --> 01:55:42.100 +specifically you, Floey, + +01:55:43.480 --> 01:55:43.980 +and just everyone. Thank you all. + +01:55:48.180 --> 01:55:48.420 +[Speaker 6]: Have a nice day or night and we'll hear each + +01:55:48.740 --> 01:55:49.240 +other. Bye! + +01:55:51.220 --> 01:55:51.420 +[Speaker 1]: See you. Okay, well, + +01:55:51.880 --> 01:55:52.360 +[Speaker 3]: Thanks, Zen. I'll go next. + +01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:54.300 +I'm the next newest, I think. + +01:55:59.640 --> 01:56:00.140 +Well, I want to say also, + +01:56:01.800 --> 01:56:02.300 +you know, Bob and Stefan, + +01:56:03.660 --> 01:56:03.760 +thank you so much for jumping in and + +01:56:04.860 --> 01:56:05.360 +participating in the closing remarks. + +01:56:06.700 --> 01:56:07.200 +I too think it's a lot of, + +01:56:08.560 --> 01:56:08.960 +like, it's fun to just, + +01:56:10.760 --> 01:56:11.260 +like, share the buzz after the convention. + +01:56:13.260 --> 01:56:13.460 +We've got all these millions of ideas and + +01:56:16.120 --> 01:56:16.480 +then to have a group, a little group think + +01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:19.460 +about what we're walking away from that with. + +01:56:22.360 --> 01:56:22.540 +What is the temperature of the fire in your + +01:56:24.360 --> 01:56:24.860 +belly? And it's just... + +01:56:28.440 --> 01:56:28.740 +I mean, this is 1 of the highlights of my + +01:56:30.200 --> 01:56:30.700 +year in a way that it's just... + +01:56:31.780 --> 01:56:31.970 +I don't think other people... + +01:56:33.880 --> 01:56:34.120 +I don't think I dare explain it to other + +01:56:35.880 --> 01:56:36.020 +people. I think my wife understands and I + +01:56:40.600 --> 01:56:40.860 +will do. So thank you very much for this + +01:56:42.340 --> 01:56:42.840 +conference and the opportunity to participate + +01:56:45.540 --> 01:56:46.040 +in it. You know, just the conversation, + +01:56:48.540 --> 01:56:49.040 +how vibrant the chat is on IRC, + +01:56:52.080 --> 01:56:52.580 +how the variety of talks, + +01:56:54.140 --> 01:56:54.640 +some of the talks that look like television + +01:56:59.380 --> 01:56:59.540 +content to me and others that look a lot like + +01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:03.960 +my talk. And working through your slides and + +01:57:06.100 --> 01:57:06.280 +doing it live and you know I appreciate that + +01:57:10.240 --> 01:57:10.380 +we make a place for all those levels and and + +01:57:12.720 --> 01:57:13.220 +show people how to improve our craft as well. + +01:57:26.140 --> 01:57:26.460 +I'm not actually dropping or going anywhere. + +01:57:29.040 --> 01:57:29.220 +I'll continue to talk about eMAX until I get + +01:57:30.860 --> 01:57:31.000 +the dinner time bell. I've probably got an + +01:57:40.240 --> 01:57:40.580 +hour here. I'll tell you what will happen + +01:57:42.040 --> 01:57:42.160 +though is I'm guaranteed to light a + +01:57:43.780 --> 01:57:43.940 +cigarette. You can already see me kind of + +01:57:45.860 --> 01:57:46.160 +hovering about my room because I'm trying to + +01:57:47.440 --> 01:57:47.780 +avoid like smoking on camera. + +01:57:49.300 --> 01:57:49.540 +I don't know where that came from. + +01:57:52.360 --> 01:57:52.860 +I'm giving it up in approximately 5 seconds. + +01:57:58.980 --> 01:57:59.480 +[Speaker 7]: Yeah I'm gonna hop off. + +01:58:00.800 --> 01:58:01.300 +It's possibly right here. + +01:58:02.220 --> 01:58:02.720 +I'll work tomorrow. + +01:58:06.200 --> 01:58:06.380 +[Speaker 3]: I took the next 2 days off. + +01:58:07.320 --> 01:58:07.820 +I'm actually going camping, + +01:58:11.040 --> 01:58:11.280 +Stefan. I know I've learned that this + +01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:13.300 +conference leaves me completely emotionally + +01:58:16.360 --> 01:58:16.860 +exhausted. I just like, + +01:58:18.700 --> 01:58:19.140 +I don't know, I watch all, + +01:58:20.820 --> 01:58:21.320 +I feel like I just connect with all the, + +01:58:23.440 --> 01:58:23.640 +like it's this time where I connect with all + +01:58:25.260 --> 01:58:25.580 +these people that spend as much time thinking + +01:58:26.580 --> 01:58:27.080 +about Emacs as I do. + +01:58:31.480 --> 01:58:31.760 +[Speaker 0]: All right, so maybe we should wrap up before + +01:58:32.440 --> 01:58:32.940 +you have like, you know, + +01:58:35.380 --> 01:58:35.880 +that overflow error and just... + +01:58:38.000 --> 01:58:38.500 +[Speaker 3]: In buster thrill, okay. + +01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:41.980 +Thank you + +01:58:45.200 --> 01:58:45.440 +[Speaker 0]: so much, everyone. Let us actually wrap up + +01:58:47.360 --> 01:58:47.440 +then. Everyone can find the recordings if you + +01:58:48.640 --> 01:58:49.140 +want to keep the conversation going. + +01:58:51.900 --> 01:58:52.120 +There are meetups, there are people's blog + +01:58:54.240 --> 01:58:54.520 +posts and video channels and mailing lists + +01:58:55.320 --> 01:58:55.820 +and all those other things. + +01:58:58.820 --> 01:58:59.180 +I often I list a lot of meetups in Emacs news + +01:59:00.680 --> 01:59:01.080 +so that's another great way to stay connected + +01:59:02.560 --> 01:59:03.060 +through the year and we hope to see everybody + +01:59:04.740 --> 01:59:05.240 +next year at EmacsConf 2024. + +01:59:11.260 --> 01:59:11.420 +[Speaker 4]: Thanks Sasha for the send off and goodbye to + +01:59:16.740 --> 01:59:16.940 +everyone. Oh Sasha I think you were muted but + +01:59:18.340 --> 01:59:18.520 +yes I was still there I assume that's what + +01:59:21.220 --> 01:59:21.720 +you just said. I lied. + +01:59:23.680 --> 01:59:23.920 +I was staying around like Corwin was. + +01:59:25.440 --> 01:59:25.580 +I just said goodbye, but then I wait in the + +01:59:26.520 --> 01:59:27.020 +bushes, waiting for the ambush. + +01:59:29.340 --> 01:59:29.840 +[Speaker 3]: Well I'm personally surprised, + +01:59:32.780 --> 01:59:33.040 +speaking for myself. I wouldn't have guessed + +01:59:36.040 --> 01:59:36.340 +that would happen. All right, + +01:59:36.340 --> 01:59:36.580 +[Speaker 4]: The perfect moment. well, + +01:59:37.360 --> 01:59:37.680 +I guess that's a wrap then. + +01:59:39.060 --> 01:59:39.560 +Thank you, everyone, and see you next year. + +01:59:43.440 --> 01:59:43.740 +[Speaker 3]: I thought we were clear like 10 minutes ago. + +01:59:45.340 --> 01:59:45.840 +Are we not? We are, right? + +01:59:47.400 --> 01:59:47.780 +We're definitely clear. + +01:59:48.040 --> 01:59:48.220 +[Speaker 5]: OK, I'm + +01:59:49.240 --> 01:59:49.440 +[Speaker 3]: hanging up now. Good night. + +01:59:50.640 --> 01:59:51.140 +It was wonderful to meet you. + +01:59:51.900 --> 01:59:52.400 +[Speaker 7]: Take care Corwin + +01:59:56.520 --> 01:59:57.020 +[Speaker 4]: Bye Stefan. Bye. Bye all |