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@@ -62,6 +62,368 @@ day someone said I look 28-years-old, so neither I nor Hyperbole feel
 that old.  We have gained some perspective through the years, so maybe
 I can help you learn something new or see something in a new way.
 
+## Discussion / notes
+
+-   Q: I'm excited to know opinion on current state of using MCP and Ai
+    for PKM and PIEs. Since they do carry lot of burden out of us and
+    ease lot of process. How does hyperbole stand with coming days?
+    -   A: We haven't yet done anything specific for MCP-based modes
+        but Hyperbole is a toolchest of capabilities for interlinking
+        information across Emacs.  You can use existing link types or
+        create your own with just a few lines of code.
+    -   AI is obviously on everybody's mind. We haven't done a lot of
+        integration with any of the popular AI engines, but I think as
+        you'll see through this Q&A session, Hyperbole's function is
+        really to interlink your information everywhere throughout
+        Emacs. And so, whether you're using a chatbot in a specific
+        buffer, you can use hyperbole implicit links, implicit buttons
+        to activate different actions there as well. So sometimes it
+        takes a bit of customization, a small amount of two to seven
+        lines of code to do that. As we get to working with more of
+        these engines, we'll build that into the core part of
+        Hyperbole. But right now, that's left as an extension for users
+        who are heavily using MCP or other protocols right now. We have,
+        for example, integrated with LSPs, you know, for coding and have
+        that interface through xref and basically using the single key,
+        the action key, which is made a return. You can jump around to
+        any of your source definitions from any reference in almost any
+        language that anybody uses today. So you can extrapolate from
+        that how that might work with AI as well. And I think you'll
+        see later when we talk about HyWiki that we're now enabling
+        just just wiki words to be buttons in hyperbole. So those could
+        be part of your chat with an AI and you just click on it and you
+        jump right to all your references associated with that
+        terminology.
+-   Q: As a normal user who codes and takes notes, I really want to
+    deep-dive and learn Hyperbole, but always end up winding back up to
+    embark and org-mode being the better system. For me hyperbole looks
+    like over-engineered (or over-configured) system which other
+    individual packages do well. And outside emacs there is no system
+    supporting hyperbole nor any usability.
+    -   A: Listen to this Q&A session and take it one bite at a time. 
+        Across time, you will see how the parts of Hyperbole integrate
+        together and why they are all there.
+    -   Right, Hyperbole is large, but there's reasons behind that.
+        We're just trying to link all your information in Emacs. So I
+        think you can see my screen here in Emacs. So for example, you
+        can take any Lisp expression, even a variable like here we have
+        in Hyperbole, hyperb:dir variable, and I just hit the action key
+        M-RET, and in my minibuffer, I see the value of that variable,
+        but I could just as well take any other expression and take the
+        outer parens off and change them to angle brackets and now
+        that's a live hyperbutton. Could be in a comment in a
+        programming buffer in this case. It's in Koutliner buffer,
+        which is a an auto-numbered outliner part of hyperbole. So
+        let's just try this and say M-RET. I pressed and it ran occur
+        and found all the occurrences of buttons. And similarly in here,
+        I could just jump and go to any of these lines directly by
+        hitting M-RET in that buffer as well. So all your text, all your
+        sort of what we call implicit links become live in Hyperbole.
+        And you didn't have to learn much. You just learn, you know, if
+        you know a little Lisp or how to type any expression, then you
+        just change the outer brackets. And all of a sudden, you have
+        hyperbuttons. So Hyperbole, you can learn a little bit at a
+        time. And although it seems daunting at first because it has so
+        much functionality, very large and rich architecture. But what
+        we do is teach people one piece at a time.
+    -   So just to continue on that a little bit, implicit buttons are
+        buttons that exist just from the text pattern in the buffer. So
+        you saw an example of changing Lisp into implicit buttons right
+        there. I could do keystrokes. I can just type them out in my
+        buffer and surround them with braces. So here's something,
+        let's see, this is actually a command in the K Outliner to jump
+        to the cell numbered four. So let's just do that. And it took
+        me right there, right? So I'm just pressing M-RET to activate
+        these buttons. Similarly, any sort of, this is a complex
+        example, but any path name I can surround with double quotes,
+        and it's a live hyperbutton. In this case, I want to jump to a
+        path name called readme.md, but it's in a directory that's
+        specified by an actual list variable. And then I want to go
+        directly to a headline within that file called Hyperbole manual.
+        And within that headline, I wanna go to the eighth line relative
+        to that. So all I have to do, M-RET again, and boom, I'm in
+        that, I'm directly linked to that. And Hyperbole has ways that
+        you can just split your windows like this and create that
+        reference in the source buffer right there. You just press a few
+        keys and it'll embed that link. We'll see that a little later.
+    -   Another example, so all of these buttons, if I just show you
+        here, you can press C-h A anytime. and it will show you exactly
+        what M-RET will do in that context. In this case, it's an
+        implicit button, and it shows you even where the button starts
+        and ends, what type of action it will run, it's a link to a
+        file line, and then what arguments it takes. So Hyperbole
+        extracts all this meta information just from the text in your
+        buffer and displays it to you conveniently so you can know
+        before you ever touch a hyper button if it will do something
+        that you want it to do. Here we have a fairly advanced button
+        that's very simple to do. You just specify a bug in Emacs that
+        you want to reference to. Notice no delimiters, just bug pound,
+        whatever, M-RET. And I'm in Gnus reading the conversation for
+        that bug. And I can just, you know, move through all the
+        conversation. I can quit out of there and go back to where I
+        was. So very, very easy to use these implicit buttons because
+        they're already there throughout your Emacs buffers. I
+        described the C-h A, what that does. And there's other types of
+        buttons that we can get into as questions go on, but you can
+        create your own explicit buttons that have a little slightly
+        different delimiter than you see in the implicit buttons. And
+        this one I just put in here to show you that If you use it and
+        you go, this is the hyperbole to do list, which is an org
+        buffer. But I wanted to show in here that similarly, we have
+        implicit buttons for TODOs in the work. And when we hit M-RET,
+        it just changes the state of that to do. And I can cycle through
+        those but even better with the prefix argument if I have
+        multiple sequences of TODOs because there's Bob and Mats that
+        maintain hyperbole so I can shift to Bob's TODOs with C-u M-RET
+        and then cycle through the states for me So very very easy to
+        use, you know something that's a little bit more difficult to
+        do I think in org without it.
+    -   So that's an explicit button where I had to actually say I want
+        to create this button, and I had to specify what type it is. If
+        I show you the information there again, you see it has a little
+        different type called a keyboard key, which runs just the key
+        sequence. So you're starting to see already that explicit
+        buttons have a type that's connected to an action that an
+        implicit button can do as well. So all of this ties back
+        together.
+    -   And finally, there's a homepage that Hyperbole has, a personal
+        homepage that you have. You hit C-h h, which is our mini-buffer
+        menu, and then you hit what is it, b for button file and then p
+        for personal file. And that just brings you to basically a set
+        of links that you can create buttons in any format you want.
+        There's no structure that you see here. But the nice thing is
+        that all of these buttons that have these names, as we call
+        them, with the delimiters here, can be referenced now as what we
+        call global buttons wherever you are in Emacs. So I'm in a
+        separate buffer here and say I want to jump to that to-do button
+        that's labeled td on line 10 down there. No matter what I have
+        on screen, I can hit C-h h g for global button, a for activate,
+        and then it gives me a list of those. So I know it's td, I just
+        put td in. Okay, that's a path link problem I have, but when I
+        fix the link, it would go to it. So you can create buttons that
+        you can access in any mode, anywhere, and just give them quick
+        names, and it's very easy. So that kind of gives you an idea of
+        how you can get very productive with hyperbole with just a few
+        simple techniques. 
+-   Q: I've been using "activities.el" and "Bufferlo" to save
+    dedicated workspaces (open buffers, window positions) in tabs and
+    frames for tasks/projects across Emacs sessions. Could I do
+    something similar with Hyperbole?
+    -   A: We plan to have Hyperbole activities.el integration in about
+        another month, so stay tuned for that.  In the meantime, there
+        is the Win/ minibuffer menu, that lets you save window and frame
+        configurations by name or onto a window config ring similar to
+        the kill-ring.
+    -   Yes, you can. And activities is a nice package from alphapapa.
+        We've actually been working with it lately. So we're probably
+        in the next month or so we'll have a specific integration to
+        activities built into Hyperbole. But right now, we don't. But
+        of course, you can call any of its functions or key bindings
+        using the techniques that I just showed you earlier. But what we
+        do have built in if you go to the menu again. and you see C-h h,
+        and then there's a w, Windows, WinConfig menu, and there's two
+        types of window configurations that you can save here. They are,
+        right now, they're per Emacs session. They're not stored
+        beyond that, but we'll probably add that in as well, or we'll
+        use activities for that. so the two types are you can either
+        just save a window configuration in a frame... Actually, it
+        stores the frame configuration to a ring just like the kill
+        ring. So you have the three commands at the right. you can save
+        with an s, you can pop one off the ring with p, or you can just
+        yank and keep cycling through with a y and it will restore the
+        frame configuration that you saved. Similarly, you can just do
+        it by name, and you can say "I want to add a name" and then
+        just give it a name again, winc, and store it and it stores it
+        there and then you can get back to it by name as well. So fairly
+        easy to use as well and again integrated in the same simple menu
+        system. S
+-   Q: How well do Hyperbole and org-mode work together? Is there any
+    kind of integration?
+    -   A: Hyperbole is very well integrated with Org mode and most
+        Hyperbole capabilities are live within Org mode buffers.  We did
+        an EmacsConf talk in an earlier year about the integration. 
+        Find it here: 
+        [https://emacsconf.org/2022/talks/hyperorg/](https://emacsconf.org/2022/talks/hyperorg/)
+    -   How well do hyperbole and org mode work together? Is there any
+        kind of integration? Yes, in fact, that's really good. I'll
+        just mention something. Let me go back to my homepage. I just
+        stored that here. So we gave a talk at an earlier Emacs
+        conference right here on org and hyperbole integration. So
+        that's a good one to go back to. And I believe it's in this
+        files included with hyperbole as well. So you can learn various
+        techniques of how the action key helps you in org. It does
+        special things in tables. And there's some nice support for,
+        for example, working with code blocks. Let me see where that is.
+        Okay, so right back here. So you can run them with the action
+        key. You can refresh the output and do things like that. So
+        again, if I just hit C-h A, it'll tell me that it's in smart
+        org, and it'll give me all the different contexts that that
+        operates within. So there's a lot that it does in here. And you
+        can see it would point on the dir value of a code block
+        definition that will actually display a summary and all sorts of
+        functionality. So the integration is quite tight. And one of the
+        things we do since M-RET is used in org, we have a customization
+        setting, c then o. And you have these three settings where you
+        can say, I want M-RET to... I want hyperbole to control that
+        and everything that the action key does I want to happen, or I
+        only want hyperbole to control when I'm over a hyperbole
+        implicit/explicit button, or I want org to control that key and
+        never use hyperbole. So you just set that once, it's persistent
+        across sessions and you're good to go. And again, it's built
+        right into the menus.
+    -   But even following that we've the latest addition to hyperbole
+        is something, and this is the first time we're really showing
+        it publicly, is the Hywiki, which is a new subsystem as we call
+        it, and this is I think the best wiki capability in Emacs. Now
+        what it does is it automatically highlights... Let me turn it
+        on. I have to turn on hywiki mode. And you see those wiki words
+        now got highlighted, so any any wiki word which is the
+        capitalized alpha word you know, so you can have multiple
+        capitals in there and it'll get recognized, can be used as a
+        wiki word. So for example when I just type HyWiki here, it
+        automatically recognizes it, and you see it turned it into a
+        hyperlink button, which again, C-h a will tell me exactly what
+        it does there. But I can just hit the action key, M-RET, and
+        it'll display my hywiki.org file. All wiki pages are org files.
+        So we're using that for the wikis, and you have You can export
+        an entire wiki using essentially the org export capability with
+        a little extra set of features that we've added in, but let's
+        say, even better. You see I have this heading here, so let me
+        just change this. You go back here, and I'll say go to heading,
+        so you just put a pound on it, and now that whole thing is a
+        reference to a specific org section. Notice there's no org IDs
+        here. There's nothing other than the text that you're seeing.
+        There's not even a delimiter. So we have automatic implicit
+        hyper buttons being added in any buffer. Could be a comment in a
+        programming buffer with all you You don't have to add anything.
+        I'll show you how to create a new page in a minute. But you see
+        I can link to any org section without any IDs. And then I can
+        also do like org-roam does, but without the indexing or database
+        that it requires. I can scan over all of my wiki files and
+        headings. find a match really quickly. So we can get into some
+        of that a little later as well. But, you know, very convenient.
+        There's nothing that you change on org to do this. So how do I
+        create a wiki word? Well, let's say I wanted, you know, wiki
+        word for me. So that's already, that was a wiki word, but now
+        this is a new one. So you see it doesn't highlight because I
+        haven't created a wiki page yet. So all I hit is the action
+        key, and boom. Now it created it as a new wiki word. It created
+        the .org file. If I don't edit this file, it won't save it,
+        and it'll not become a word in case you made an accident. But
+        let's just say I want to say it. So, you know, heading. That's
+        it. I'm just in org mode. Now anytime that hywiki mode is
+        active, in any buffer essentially, I can type that out and
+        it'll recognize it. Notice so that's not a wiki word. So it's
+        highlighting and it's unhighlighting right as I type. So,
+        again, you can embed these as org links in org. There's a
+        special format like this, HyWiki word that you can make an org
+        link if I was in org mode, just like that. So there's all sorts
+        of compatibility, but basically it's just words, and HyWiki
+        takes care of the rest for you. So there's a directory where
+        all these, it's HyWiki, hywiki, ~/hywiki is the default place
+        where all these would be found, and there's a menu now in
+        hyperbole for hywiki, h, and you can see, it has a lot of
+        capabilities. But I can say, b, go into the directory of all the
+        files, just pull them up, and any of these you'll see... Let
+        me give you one like this. Okay. So you can see the other wiki
+        words being highlighted in here. It's very fast too. There's
+        almost no delay for anything, and yet very flexible, and you
+        have this ability where you could type emacs#section-1-2 and if
+        you didn't have delimiters around it, but you can put any
+        delimiters like double quotes or parentheses, and then it'll
+        match without you having to change the header at all with the
+        spaces included, and all of those will get recognized. I don't
+        know if the section exists right there. So anyway a lot of
+        capability you can see that here where I did the hy... it
+        actually highlights as an org link because it is an org link,
+        and it'll operate just like any other org link even though
+        it's a hywiki word link as well. So very powerful stuff and
+        totally integrated with Org Mode throughout. Great. 
+-   Q: Are there any talks from this year's emacsconf that discussed
+    things that would work well with Hyperbole?
+    -   A: Had to work yesterday so I haven't followed the talks. Pick
+        your favorite mode/type of information. Can Hyperbole work with
+        that? The answer is yes.
+    -   Demo of how to create an implicit button type.  See
+        documentation here:
+        [https://rswgnu.github.io/hyperbole/man/hyperbole.html#Creating-Types](https://rswgnu.github.io/hyperbole/man/hyperbole.html#Creating-Types)
+    -   No. Unfortunately, I had to work yesterday, so I haven't been
+        following the conference as much as I do. Maybe somebody else
+        could comment on that. But I think, you know, again, it's like
+        pick your favorite mode, pick your favorite type of information.
+        Can hyperbole work with that? You know, the answer is almost
+        always yes. So, you know, if I show you just a little bit, if I
+        show you some of these implicit button types, just so you know
+        the amount of code involved to create a type. So here's like a
+        mail, recognizing an email address as a button. It's a little
+        long, so that it creates a lot of things, but you know it's
+        less than 15 lines of code for that. Path names are complicated,
+        so that's a longer one, but let's look at... So here's one
+        recognizing a bibliography entry. So it can be between two and
+        20 lines of code to create an entirely new button type. And you
+        create it once, and you just add it to the set of types, just
+        like at the fun, except it's done with this macro called def
+        implicit button type, and defib. And it's part of your
+        hyperlinking system forever then. So say you got dumped with
+        5,000 documents that were in this weird text format, and they
+        all had cross-references among them, but it was, again, using a
+        weird format. You could just write your own little type for
+        that, and then those 5,000 documents are hyperlinked for you
+        every time you're browsing them in Emacs automatically. So we
+        do that all the time, create small things, but all of these are
+        built into Hyperbole. Markdown links, texinfo links, all of
+        that's automatic. I could even be in a shell mode, and I just
+        say ls, and these are hyperlinks that Hyperbole understands,
+        right? It just jumps right to the file. So grep -n, you know,
+        looking at any line numbers, you don't have to remember all
+        these different commands anymore. You just hit M-RET, and
+        Hyperbole does the right thing in all these different contexts,
+        including following cross-references in code. So I would say
+        that's your answer. Most things that people are talking about,
+        we've already probably integrated with Hyperbole or with a
+        little bit of custom coding. You can do it. 
+-   Comment: Interesting, but the many different link formats makes
+    reading and analyzing my notes much harder and less usable outside
+    Emacs. 
+    -   Well, I mean, the different formats that you're saying, like
+        angle brackets or curly braces, are just so that you can utilize
+        many different types. of buttons, but if you just want to use
+        key sequences, there's only one markup format. With org,
+        you've got the square brackets, which are consistent, but in
+        order to have different types, you have to type a prefix name,
+        like you see the HY for the HyWiki buttons in org mode. So I
+        think the trade-off is pretty much the same, but Hyperbole
+        always, always works to minimize the amount of markup. Markdown
+        is pretty simple. A lot of people like that. But I think you'll
+        find in hyperbole texts, they read just like regular language. I
+        mean, the delimiters are fairly invisible. So I'm not sure what
+        the issue is there. And again, you can choose your own. You can
+        make your own types with your own delimiters. There's even a
+        custom macro that instead of using that defib where you have to
+        type out Lisp code, you can use regular expressions. And in one
+        line, you can define your own type of button with its own
+        delimiters. So, you know, depending on what works well for your
+        eyes, you can make Hyperbole adapt quite well to that. And
+        again, if you start using the HyWiki, there's literally zero
+        markup on that. So you're just reading text, and when you want
+        something hyperlinked, it's like a glossary or a dictionary
+        entry. It's just there, and it's just highlighted in the text.
+        So I don't see much barrier to using it with many different
+        types of documents.
+-   Q: Is there any doc on Hyperbole's design and architecture?
+    -   A: See this very interesting AI-generated document with a bunch
+        of diagrams covering Hyperbole's architecture: 
+        [https://deepwiki.com/rswgnu/hyperbole/1-gnu-hyperbole-overview](https://deepwiki.com/rswgnu/hyperbole/1-gnu-hyperbole-overview)
+
+-   interesting but the many different link formats makes
+    reading/analysing my notes much harder, and less usable outside
+    emacs
+-   Hyperbole is designed to minimize the markup necessary on
+    hyperbuttons and with HyWikiWords there is literally no markup.  Org
+    has uniform link delimiters but requires different link prefixes to
+    embed different link types.  Hyperbole uses different delimiters for
+    different types instead, but they are always easy to read and not
+    heavyweight like some Org markup is, e.g. drawers and IDs.
 
 
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