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+++ b/2025/info/commonlisp-after.md
@@ -431,7 +431,360 @@
 
 Captioner: sachac
 
-Questions or comments? Please e-mail [emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org](mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20commonlisp%3A%20Common%20Lisp%20images%20communicating%20like-a-human%20through%20shared%20Emacs%20slime%20and%20eev)
+<div class="transcript transcript-qanda"><a name="commonlisp-qanda-transcript"></a><h1>Q&A transcript (unedited)</h1>
+
+[[!template text="""Recording started.""" start="00:00:00.000" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Great. All right, you are live in Common Lisp on dev.""" start="00:00:04.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""This is Corwin back and I've got screwlisp with me,""" start="00:00:07.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""the host of the Lispy Gopher... Climate, I like to say.""" start="00:00:14.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""It used to be show.""" start="00:00:18.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""The Lispy Gopher show or the Lispy Gopher Climate.""" start="00:00:20.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Thank you so much for joining us. Minutes.""" start="00:00:24.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Yeah, we're just, we've got already""" start="00:00:31.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""a whole pad full of questions""" start="00:00:33.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and we have a unique opportunity if you,""" start="00:00:35.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""if you check out the etherpad,""" start="00:00:38.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""you'll see some instructions there to join on Lambda Moo,""" start="00:00:39.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""which screwless,""" start="00:00:42.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""but I'm hoping you will talk to us a little bit about that""" start="00:00:43.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""as well as your, your very cool project.""" start="00:00:46.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Oh yeah, so I main on Lambda, as Corwin is saying.""" start="00:00:48.880" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And Corwin was pretending not to know the name of the show,""" start="00:00:52.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""but he has in fact appeared on an episode of it""" start="00:00:55.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""in January this year, I think.""" start="00:00:59.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So he was just pretending there. I'm screwless of this.""" start="00:01:00.880" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""What's happening?""" start="00:01:04.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""10 minutes or less before we started going live here,""" start="00:01:06.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""they were like, remember how you said you fixed that bug?""" start="00:01:13.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And then I had to quickly recapitulate my whole talk.""" start="00:01:16.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And I introduced some new bugs while that was happening.""" start="00:01:21.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""But let's go through some of these questions.""" start="00:01:23.720" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""We're all hanging out in LambdaMoo.""" start="00:01:26.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So if you mx telnet over to lambda.moo.mud.org port 8888.""" start="00:01:29.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""This is where we're talking at the moment""" start="00:01:37.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""with people like Ed Swarthout, DM, and yduJ,""" start="00:01:40.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""who I gossiped about in the show,""" start="00:01:45.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and Sasha, and people were there a little bit as well.""" start="00:01:47.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I'm just going to read some of the questions""" start="00:01:50.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""that GGXX in Lambdomoo has been relaying to me there,""" start="00:01:53.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""though I hear that there are a whole bunch of them now.""" start="00:01:59.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Someone asks on the Etherpad,""" start="00:02:08.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""what do you mean when I say the agent is running slowly?""" start="00:02:09.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Yeah, so if you saw in the talk,""" start="00:02:13.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I was having the agent only attempt""" start="00:02:17.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""to act every 20 seconds.""" start="00:02:19.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""This is what I mean by the agent is acting slowly.""" start="00:02:21.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So this is quite different""" start="00:02:25.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""to what people might expect within AI""" start="00:02:26.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""if people are talking about like the graphics card ones""" start="00:02:28.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""where you're trying crunch as fast as you can""" start="00:02:30.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""for as few seconds as you can, and then you stop.""" start="00:02:33.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""In contrast, my agent is just trying to do""" start="00:02:36.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""a simple action every 20 seconds.""" start="00:02:39.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""But if you keep going continuously""" start="00:02:42.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""at a simple action every 20 seconds""" start="00:02:45.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""without sleeping for days,""" start="00:02:47.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""it still adds up to a lot.""" start="00:02:49.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So that was the significance of it running slowly.""" start="00:02:51.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""What else are people saying? TGXX to screwtape.""" start="00:02:57.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Someone asked on the Etherpad,""" start="00:03:00.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""do you think that it would be too hard""" start="00:03:02.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""to add a second way""" start="00:03:04.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""to send commands from Common Lisps to Emacs?""" start="00:03:06.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""No, I put three of them together""" start="00:03:09.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and I didn't talk about it""" start="00:03:12.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""because this is a kind of affected choice.""" start="00:03:14.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Right now you're using Emacs client for that.""" start="00:03:17.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""That is the simplest way to implement.""" start="00:03:20.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""How about using the slime protocol?""" start="00:03:22.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Elsewhere, I am just using the SLIME protocol.""" start="00:03:24.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So, in everyone that's SLIME-connected.""" start="00:03:28.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So, earlier on, you saw somebody""" start="00:03:31.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""running a SWANK server in Python.""" start="00:03:33.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Normally, you run a SWANK server in Common Lisp.""" start="00:03:35.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And a SWANK server is what Emacs SLIME,""" start="00:03:38.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs, connects to.""" start="00:03:41.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And then Swank comes with Swank Eval and Emacs.""" start="00:03:45.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So after you've been slime connected,""" start="00:03:49.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""you can trivially send Emacs Lisp forms to Emacs""" start="00:03:50.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""using Swank Eval and Emacs.""" start="00:03:55.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""The reason that I chose to use""" start="00:03:57.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Emacs server and Emacs client""" start="00:04:00.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""was that I was letting the Leonardo agent""" start="00:04:05.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""talk to Emacs using Swank, Eval, and Emacs.""" start="00:04:14.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And I wanted my ECL image to be using""" start="00:04:18.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""a different notion of a server.""" start="00:04:21.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So the ECL image, just because""" start="00:04:23.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I chose to do it like this,""" start="00:04:27.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""is using Emacs client and Emacs server going via,""" start="00:04:28.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I guess it's executing a program""" start="00:04:33.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""rather than using a shell.""" start="00:04:35.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And Yeah, I was letting somebody else""" start="00:04:36.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""use Slime eval in Emacs.""" start="00:04:40.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""It would have been simpler""" start="00:04:42.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""if everybody just used Slime eval in Emacs.""" start="00:04:45.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I thought I was getting something""" start="00:04:48.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""out of adding Emacs server into the mix.""" start="00:04:50.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""What's somebody saying?""" start="00:04:56.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Idaj is weirded out by doing get foo bar""" start="00:04:57.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""instead of get foo quote bar.""" start="00:05:00.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Yeah, that was Sandewall's choice.""" start="00:05:02.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""He was trying to pitch Lisp""" start="00:05:04.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""to logic notation people,""" start="00:05:06.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""so he lets people put commas in""" start="00:05:09.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and then ignores them in certain expressions,""" start="00:05:12.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and he doesn't have these Lisp-style quotes.""" start="00:05:15.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Idaj is obviously from like Schlumberger""" start="00:05:18.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and wherever else she was at in""" start="00:05:22.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""in the kind of list of traditions.""" start="00:05:24.880" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Full of Spain is saying good observation.""" start="00:05:28.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Yidaj is shocked that she's being mentioned.""" start="00:05:30.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Interestingly Nosredna yduJ capitalizes Nosredna at the front,""" start="00:05:33.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""but she capitalizes yduJ at the back, just for clarity.""" start="00:05:40.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""You should read her Stanford page or her recipe site""" start="00:05:45.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""or anything if you're not clear on who yduJ is.""" start="00:05:49.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""It's actually you're looking for the word eclipsed.""" start="00:05:58.000" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I think she eclipsed a dodge,""" start="00:06:00.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I think is the English phrase that you're looking for.""" start="00:06:03.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""He does just saying she would not.""" start="00:06:06.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""She's no matter what I say""" start="00:06:08.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""she's not going to hug my software agent""" start="00:06:10.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""like she would hug a grandchild eyes me warily.""" start="00:06:13.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And Sasha is not going to.""" start="00:06:20.720" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Totally not training a general intelligence""" start="00:06:22.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""who requires a lot of data""" start="00:06:24.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and also cuddles. Okay, so everybody who has children""" start="00:06:26.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""is disagreeing with me quoting Sandewall,""" start="00:06:28.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""who did have children and grandchildren,""" start="00:06:31.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""saying that he wanted machine intelligences""" start="00:06:33.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""to be like his grandchild.""" start="00:06:36.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""GGXX is saying somebody on Etherpad""" start="00:06:37.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""is asking what the Leonardo system is.""" start="00:06:40.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Sandewall is a LISP scientist""" start="00:06:43.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 90s, 10s.""" start="00:06:46.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""with things like bronze statues of him in Sweden.""" start="00:06:51.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""People outside of the Swedish-speaking sphere of science""" start="00:06:55.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""are less familiar with him.""" start="00:06:59.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I guess he famously taught Robert Strand""" start="00:07:01.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""how to program in LISP, if that places him for you.""" start="00:07:04.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""What else did he do?""" start="00:07:08.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Yeah, so he was on a kind of long trajectory of AI,""" start="00:07:10.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""which would now be called good old-fashioned AI.""" start="00:07:15.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And he was coming from the situation calculus,""" start="00:07:18.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""then activity calculus kind of direction,""" start="00:07:22.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""which are extended first order logics""" start="00:07:26.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""for reasoning about change over time.""" start="00:07:28.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And his last program he contributed to the world was this.""" start="00:07:31.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""From 2005 to 2014, he worked on""" start="00:07:35.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""this Leonardo system for his master's program.""" start="00:07:39.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""He was teaching at that time""" start="00:07:43.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""at the University of Linköping in Sweden.""" start="00:07:45.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And... Then he just kind of gradually faded from view""" start="00:07:48.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""while he wrote his unpublished books""" start="00:07:53.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""on reasoning and change, I guess, between 2010 and 2014.""" start="00:07:55.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And then I just kind of noticed this eventually.""" start="00:08:01.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And I brought that software back. And that's what this is.""" start="00:08:03.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And that's why it kind of weirdly exists.""" start="00:08:07.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Welcome to Khaki Guest. Magenta Guest is gone.""" start="00:08:10.000" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Pink Guest is gone.""" start="00:08:15.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Blue Guest has arrived. Great. Somebody order six.""" start="00:08:16.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Everybody orders sake from Emily.""" start="00:08:23.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""We're hanging out in Jay Lamott's sushi bar in Lambda,""" start="00:08:26.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""which is on the model railway""" start="00:08:29.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""on the table in the second guest bedroom in Lambda House""" start="00:08:31.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""where we're all hanging out.""" start="00:08:35.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Oh, I think GGXX is ordering people up things.""" start="00:08:36.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""You know, just teach people about this.""" start="00:08:43.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""All right, I'm going to try looking""" start="00:08:46.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""at the etherpad manually. Sorry, I can read you.""" start="00:08:52.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So the next question you have,""" start="00:08:55.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""somebody says, I found Eduardo's blog.""" start="00:08:57.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""OK, you just got through that.""" start="00:09:00.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And then we were also, a question you answered""" start="00:09:03.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""is the other one that I see here, just about Lambda Moo.""" start="00:09:06.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And I think you started to answer in the pad.""" start="00:09:10.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""But if you want to kind of read that out.""" start="00:09:14.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I definitely haven't written anything in the pad.""" start="00:09:16.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I'm going to just talk to Khaki Guest in Lambda.""" start="00:09:19.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Sure, so why don't you do a little bit""" start="00:09:23.720" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and just read this question.""" start="00:09:25.880" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""The question was, what is LambdaMOO and how do we use it?""" start="00:09:27.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""LambdaMOO is a module introduction,""" start="00:09:31.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and you can tell that to it.""" start="00:09:33.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""There's instructions in the pad.""" start="00:09:35.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I'll go ahead and drop that in the gen channel""" start="00:09:36.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""or in the dev channel chat right now.""" start="00:09:40.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And I see it is already in there.""" start="00:09:42.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""But down at the bottom""" start="00:09:46.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""of the discussion links feedback area,""" start="00:09:49.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""you'll see a set of detailed instructions""" start="00:09:53.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""that ScrewList has provided us to get in there.""" start="00:09:55.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I think that was actually GGXX""" start="00:09:58.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""who might have written that for us.""" start="00:10:01.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Several changes evolved in the last 10 minutes""" start="00:10:03.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""before we went live here.""" start="00:10:08.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""But yeah, so LambdaMoo is""" start="00:10:09.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""the world's longest-running virtual reality.""" start="00:10:12.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I guess it started in the end of October in 1990""" start="00:10:14.880" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and has run continuously to today.""" start="00:10:19.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""You can get there, ideally, with a MUD client.""" start="00:10:21.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Technically, it's a MUD, comma, object-oriented.""" start="00:10:24.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""This is just where I hang out some degree of the week.""" start="00:10:27.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""yduJ is the wizard yduJ, or sorry,""" start="00:10:30.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""yduJ is also the wizard Nosredna of Lambdomoo, for example.""" start="00:10:36.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""It kind of fits into quite less history.""" start="00:10:40.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I guess Pavel Curtis would have started in 1990""" start="00:10:44.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""for Xerox PARC, originally. Just to go to what Khaki Guest""" start="00:10:47.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""has been continuing to talk about.""" start="00:10:52.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Welcome to Brown, Guest, as well, I guess.""" start="00:10:54.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Aki Guest says, to Screwtape,""" start="00:10:57.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""it seems like you're trying to build""" start="00:11:03.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""a more restrictive Turing test""" start="00:11:04.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""using the input output logs of an Emacs conversation.""" start="00:11:07.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Is that accurate?""" start="00:11:11.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Can you explain this idea of if it is intelligent,""" start="00:11:12.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I'd like it to be like me?""" start="00:11:15.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Otherwise, I don't know what intelligence is.""" start="00:11:17.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Doesn't that seem a little egocentric?""" start="00:11:20.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Is that a joke or a genuine definition of intelligence?""" start="00:11:21.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Why do you think the link between""" start="00:11:25.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""input-output of Emacs human input-output""" start="00:11:27.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""is stronger than other forms of Turing tests?""" start="00:11:30.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So I'm going to misread Turing tests""" start="00:11:33.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""for a moment as Turing-complete.""" start="00:11:36.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And Sandewall's system is very specifically""" start="00:11:37.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Our first-order logic, if we don't extend it,""" start="00:11:40.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""is not Turing-complete, for starters.""" start="00:11:45.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And things like situation calculus,""" start="00:11:49.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""McCarthy's situation calculus,""" start="00:11:51.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""which I guess is prior to""" start="00:11:53.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Sandewall's Leonardo's calculus,""" start="00:11:55.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""are extended first-order logics""" start="00:11:58.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""for reasoning about change.""" start="00:12:02.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And so they're slightly""" start="00:12:03.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""more restricted than conventional,""" start="00:12:05.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""than general-purpose computer programs.""" start="00:12:07.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And then what you're saying is, if it's intelligent,""" start="00:12:10.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I'd expect it to be like me.""" start="00:12:14.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I'm really just paraphrasing what Sandewall says about,""" start="00:12:16.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""well, he thinks his grandchildren are intelligent.""" start="00:12:19.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So if a computer is intelligent,""" start="00:12:23.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""he thinks the computer will have to be""" start="00:12:24.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""similar to his grandchildren.""" start="00:12:26.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""This is in contrast to people""" start="00:12:28.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""who are using the terms AI""" start="00:12:32.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""to mean something a graphics card does""" start="00:12:33.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""with extremely specialized bulk matrix multiplication""" start="00:12:37.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""for a very short period of time""" start="00:12:41.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""on absolutely gigantic electrical""" start="00:12:43.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and kind of memory and computing resources,""" start="00:12:47.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""which doesn't look at all like what""" start="00:12:50.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Sandewall's grandchildren were doing.""" start="00:12:51.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And this is why I'm kind of saying,""" start="00:12:55.000" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""well, if I have an agent,""" start="00:12:56.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And my agent is quite simple.""" start="00:12:57.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""It uses Emacs server and Emacs client""" start="00:13:00.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""to send lines of basically extended""" start="00:13:04.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""first-order logic to the agent,""" start="00:13:07.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and the agent then takes a kind of""" start="00:13:09.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""first-order logic-y action.""" start="00:13:12.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And I was making the point""" start="00:13:15.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""that this looks more like me computing""" start="00:13:21.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""using of REPL-driven development like EEV,""" start="00:13:23.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""where in EEV I have basically a log""" start="00:13:27.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""of something I've previously done,""" start="00:13:30.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and I can tap F8 and execute""" start="00:13:32.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""line after line after line.""" start="00:13:34.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And I think if I see an agent doing that,""" start="00:13:36.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I can clearly understand""" start="00:13:38.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and relate to what the agent is doing.""" start="00:13:40.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And so I'm not classifying""" start="00:13:43.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Like, I never do gigabytes and gigabytes""" start="00:13:45.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and gigabytes of matrix multiplications,""" start="00:13:49.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""so I can't relate to this as an idea of intelligence.""" start="00:13:52.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Sorry. Welcome to GreenGuest teleporting in.""" start="00:13:54.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""FullSpain is saying, no one truly knows what intelligence is.""" start="00:13:57.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""All right. I kind of wished that this was working,""" start="00:14:02.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""because just before we went live, they said,""" start="00:14:10.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""hey, just have your example working quickly.""" start="00:14:13.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Then I downloaded my example from my blog,""" start="00:14:15.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and I'd double escaped some characters""" start="00:14:19.000" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""so that the escaped characters would show up in my blog.""" start="00:14:22.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""And I caused a lot of rampant chaos.""" start="00:14:26.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""If anyone else has a question.""" start="00:14:29.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Guest has said, but. So. Great.""" start="00:14:32.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I guess I could go back and try it.""" start="00:14:40.760" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I probably should have jumped in a couple of minutes ago""" start="00:14:47.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and just said the live stream did cut over,""" start="00:14:50.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""but we're continuing to record this""" start="00:14:53.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and the whole session will be published""" start="00:14:54.920" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""along with the video on the website.""" start="00:14:57.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Oh, well. Sorry about that. I tried that.""" start="00:14:58.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I just lost a couple of minutes there""" start="00:15:04.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and failed to give you the smooth morning.""" start="00:15:06.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Oh, no, no. That's fine. I was just kind of rambling.""" start="00:15:08.880" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Listen. Don't download a web page""" start="00:15:14.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and try and convert it to an org file on the fly""" start="00:15:16.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and just before you go live somewhere""" start="00:15:19.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""is the kind of moral here.""" start="00:15:21.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""You know, just saying that's pretty graphics, but it's long.""" start="00:15:23.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""She's dropping. See you later. Yeah.""" start="00:15:27.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Let's, let's, let's all get out of here.""" start="00:15:29.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Basically. I'm going to go see""" start="00:15:31.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""if I can look at this ether pad one last time""" start="00:15:32.400" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and see if there are any questions""" start="00:15:36.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""just to not leave anyone else.""" start="00:15:37.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Anyone out much to their chagrin possibly.""" start="00:15:39.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Um, how to connect to LambdaMu, seems great.""" start="00:15:43.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Oh, interesting guides, somebody wrote that.""" start="00:15:47.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""What do you mean by slowly? Yeah, so I'm saying taking""" start="00:15:52.160" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""a simple action every 20 seconds,""" start="00:15:55.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""this still adds up to a lot over time.""" start="00:15:57.280" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Question, do you think that it would be,""" start="00:15:59.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""yeah, well, if you've used Slime,""" start="00:16:01.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and hence you're using Swank,""" start="00:16:04.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""you can just Swank, Eval,""" start="00:16:05.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and Emacs would be the more trivial way.""" start="00:16:07.240" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I felt like I was getting something bonus""" start="00:16:08.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""by using, um, Emacs server.""" start="00:16:10.720" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Somebody has a link to Eduardo's blog,""" start="00:16:13.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""which I think has been misspelled.""" start="00:16:17.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""It should be angkwu with no dot there,""" start="00:16:19.840" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""dot net, sharp sign EEV.""" start="00:16:23.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So, Eduardo is the author of EEV mode.""" start="00:16:27.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I found Eduardo's thing.""" start="00:16:31.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Oh, this was the question, what is the Leonardo system,""" start="00:16:33.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""which I just answered.""" start="00:16:36.200" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""What is LambdaMOO? How do you use it?""" start="00:16:38.480" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""It's a mud, comma, object-oriented.""" start="00:16:42.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""So it's a multi-user dungeon kind of classical video game,""" start="00:16:45.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""still popular, but with extended object-oriented facilities.""" start="00:16:49.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Companies like Harlequin, which yduJ""" start="00:16:52.800" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and Ken Pitman, for example, were at, I think, in the 90s.""" start="00:16:57.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Instead of modernly, you'd have Slack web apps or something.""" start="00:17:00.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""People used to have these MOOs and things.""" start="00:17:05.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Okay, the music that's replaced me is evidently quite nice.""" start="00:17:08.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Yes, get the hints. Thanks for being here.""" start="00:17:15.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Well, let's continue this diatribe""" start="00:17:22.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""possibly on the Mastodon or something like that.""" start="00:17:29.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""We'll do some kind of...""" start="00:17:33.640" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Let me thank you one more time for preparing this talk""" start="00:17:36.000" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and for all that you do for the Free Software community""" start="00:17:40.520" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and especially for Emacs. particularly appreciate you.""" start="00:17:44.360" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Thank you for all you do for the Free Software community""" start="00:17:47.880" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and particularly Emacs, Corwin and Bruce.""" start="00:17:50.440" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I'm still waiting for a working demo of Dungeon Mode.""" start="00:17:53.320" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""My joke that I was setting up and never had a chance for""" start="00:17:56.080" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""was that I was going to say""" start="00:17:58.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I wanted my agent to be using Dungeon Mode in Emacs.""" start="00:17:59.960" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""How's that? Okay, well, we'll work on that.""" start="00:18:03.600" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""That could be a project for the two of us in our copious free time.""" start="00:18:06.000" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""Definitely. Yeah. Okay. I'll let you go.""" start="00:18:10.120" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""I'm gonna abandon this stream.""" start="00:18:13.560" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""All right. I'll end out the recording""" start="00:18:14.680" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+[[!template text="""and thanks to all who participated. Okay. See you later.""" start="00:18:17.040" video="qanda-commonlisp" id="subtitle"]]
+
+</div>Questions or comments? Please e-mail [emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org](mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20commonlisp%3A%20Common%20Lisp%20images%20communicating%20like-a-human%20through%20shared%20Emacs%20slime%20and%20eev)
 
 
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