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+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.759
+So let's, I'm just going to answer
+
+00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:04.399
+the questions as I see them on the pad.
+
+00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:07.079
+So yeah, this first question is really good.
+
+00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:09.919
+And I think it's actually this great thing
+
+00:00:09.920 --> 00:00:12.719
+that I did not mention is that like,
+
+00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:14.119
+if you have unsaved buffers,
+
+00:00:14.120 --> 00:00:17.679
+which is, you know, when you're actually doing editing,
+
+00:00:17.680 --> 00:00:21.999
+most buffers are unsaved.
+
+00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:25.959
+really you need something tightly integrated with Emacs
+
+00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:27.479
+to deal with that.
+
+00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:29.039
+So things like, you know,
+
+00:00:29.040 --> 00:00:30.239
+I demonstrated Copilot,
+
+00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:32.519
+I demonstrated Gptel,
+
+00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:35.439
+things like those things, things like Ellama,
+
+00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:38.719
+these things will all work with unsaved buffers
+
+00:00:38.720 --> 00:00:43.959
+because they work via, you know, the input is the buffer.
+
+00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:45.199
+as opposed to a file.
+
+00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.519
+Things like Claude Code, Gemini Code, et cetera,
+
+00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:49.519
+those are working with files.
+
+00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:51.639
+They have no idea what is going on with your buffers.
+
+00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:55.119
+And it could be that you can solve this problem
+
+00:00:55.120 --> 00:00:56.799
+by using this thing called MCP,
+
+00:00:56.800 --> 00:01:02.839
+which kind of gives the coding agent
+
+00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:05.119
+a way to see anything in particular.
+
+00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:06.799
+In this case, it would be Emacs
+
+00:01:06.800 --> 00:01:07.799
+and the state of your buffers.
+
+00:01:07.800 --> 00:01:11.319
+But I think that's not a particularly great solution
+
+00:01:11.320 --> 00:01:13.839
+if that's how you want to work.
+
+00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:15.719
+But I think that's kind of like
+
+00:01:15.720 --> 00:01:17.359
+if you're in the Claude Code
+
+00:01:17.360 --> 00:01:19.759
+that kind of world where you know things are happening,
+
+00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:24.679
+basically through a terminal.
+
+00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:26.399
+It's okay, like you typically
+
+00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.639
+would not be doing a mix of things.
+
+00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:30.119
+You would just be doing things either
+
+00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.399
+in one place or the other place.
+
+00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:33.599
+You know, it could be that you switch off
+
+00:01:33.600 --> 00:01:34.359
+from one place to another,
+
+00:01:34.360 --> 00:01:36.399
+but you wouldn't be doing both at the same time.
+
+00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:40.279
+And it's kind of a, you tend to just fall into one,
+
+00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:41.679
+you know,
+
+00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:44.759
+editing outside the editor or editing inside the editor.
+
+00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:47.039
+And I find myself switching between the two
+
+00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:48.959
+when I use those kinds of tools.
+
+00:01:48.960 --> 00:01:51.439
+So David, let me interrupt you for just one moment.
+
+00:01:51.440 --> 00:01:53.519
+I want to just take care to read out
+
+00:01:53.520 --> 00:01:55.079
+the question that we're answering.
+
+00:01:55.080 --> 00:01:58.999
+The question was, my biggest question with AI code editors
+
+00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:00.999
+trying to integrate with Emacs is,
+
+00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:04.599
+are the AI code editors able to read unsaved buffers
+
+00:02:04.600 --> 00:02:06.319
+and not just saved files?
+
+00:02:06.320 --> 00:02:11.719
+Sorry. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for reminding me to.
+
+00:02:11.720 --> 00:02:13.519
+I will read the questions from now on.
+
+00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.599
+But yes, that's what I think about.
+
+00:02:16.600 --> 00:02:20.319
+that interesting questions about unsaved buffers.
+
+00:02:20.320 --> 00:02:22.239
+The next question is,
+
+00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:23.799
+I don't agree with the comment you made
+
+00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:25.199
+about VS code usage dying out
+
+00:02:25.200 --> 00:02:26.719
+because I see companies and products
+
+00:02:26.720 --> 00:02:28.879
+pushing for tightly integrated agent
+
+00:02:28.880 --> 00:02:31.319
+and products like Windsurf.
+
+00:02:31.320 --> 00:02:33.239
+So thoughts on that?
+
+00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:35.879
+Yeah, I mean, it's really hard
+
+00:02:35.880 --> 00:02:36.999
+to be certain of anything,
+
+00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:38.439
+like things are changing very fast
+
+00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:40.639
+and it's very hard to predict the future.
+
+00:02:40.640 --> 00:02:47.839
+But the trend I see is that um,
+
+00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.919
+the sort of outside editing experience
+
+00:02:50.920 --> 00:02:53.519
+where you just kind of instruct a model,
+
+00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:56.759
+what to do is getting better.
+
+00:02:56.760 --> 00:02:58.679
+And as long as that keeps getting better,
+
+00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:00.839
+I think that's going to lessen the demand
+
+00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.879
+for these tightly integrated editing experiences.
+
+00:03:04.880 --> 00:03:10.839
+So it could be that, um, a lot of people,
+
+00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:12.839
+especially in, you know, corporate environments
+
+00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:14.279
+just start using,
+
+00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:15.599
+they're going to use whatever is
+
+00:03:15.600 --> 00:03:17.959
+going to make the most productive.
+
+00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:22.399
+And I think right now, it's not clear that that will be,
+
+00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.079
+you know, the very agent-based, you know,
+
+00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.359
+command line-centric way of doing things.
+
+00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:31.239
+But it certainly, the trend is, if that continues,
+
+00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:33.319
+I think it probably will be like that.
+
+00:03:33.320 --> 00:03:35.479
+So I think we'll have to see.
+
+00:03:35.480 --> 00:03:37.679
+I don't think your opinion is unreasonable.
+
+00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.319
+I guess I'm kind of cautiously saying
+
+00:03:40.320 --> 00:03:43.199
+I think it's gonna be the opposite, but I guess we'll see.
+
+00:03:43.200 --> 00:03:47.759
+Like, let's reconvene in a year and see what happens.
+
+00:03:47.760 --> 00:03:49.159
+Uh, the 3rd question answer,
+
+00:03:49.160 --> 00:03:55.319
+do you have any thoughts about the environmental costs
+
+00:03:55.320 --> 00:03:57.079
+of using either the training
+
+00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:59.799
+of the models are we can download or use locally
+
+00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:02.359
+or the larger commercial models used from the cloud.
+
+00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:09.839
+Um, I think. The, you know, I'm on social media,
+
+00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.039
+probably a little bit more than I should be.
+
+00:04:13.040 --> 00:04:15.719
+And I do see a lot of discussion there
+
+00:04:15.720 --> 00:04:18.639
+and a lot of concern about the environmental costs of using LLMs.
+
+00:04:18.640 --> 00:04:22.799
+I've looked into this as I'm also concerned
+
+00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:27.199
+about keeping my environmental footprint personally down.
+
+00:04:27.200 --> 00:04:29.199
+And I do this in many ways,
+
+00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:31.319
+but I certainly don't want to kind of like blow that all the water
+
+00:04:31.320 --> 00:04:35.039
+because I'm using LLMs so much.
+
+00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.359
+I think that the concerns are mostly overblown.
+
+00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.839
+There's a concern that, well, it uses a lot of energy.
+
+00:04:41.840 --> 00:04:46.599
+In aggregate, the total amount of energy
+
+00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:50.559
+used by the data centers in the US is a few percent.
+
+00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:53.839
+And this is a fraction. I think this is like LM's account
+
+00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:56.719
+for something like 20% now
+
+00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:02.479
+of all data center usage, which is a lot.
+
+00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:03.959
+But Those data centers are doing lots of things.
+
+00:05:03.960 --> 00:05:05.239
+They all need to be water cooled.
+
+00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:08.679
+Um, if you like per LLM prompt,
+
+00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:11.399
+the costs are relatively small
+
+00:05:11.400 --> 00:05:13.239
+and by relatively small, I mean,
+
+00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:14.999
+you know, people have said online,
+
+00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:17.879
+well, it's like a few bottles of water per prompt.
+
+00:05:17.880 --> 00:05:20.119
+That, that is not true. It is much, much less than that.
+
+00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:21.359
+It's a fraction of that.
+
+00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:25.119
+So, uh, I don't think the answer is nothing,
+
+00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.759
+but I would say it's, I would say you probably,
+
+00:05:28.760 --> 00:05:30.799
+if you want the most bang for your environmental buck,
+
+00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:32.879
+probably the best thing for you to do
+
+00:05:32.880 --> 00:05:35.799
+is take less flights and things like that.
+
+00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:37.319
+Like, yes, you can cut down on this,
+
+00:05:37.320 --> 00:05:40.559
+but I think it's pretty marginal at the moment.
+
+00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.079
+We do probably need to think about the total costs
+
+00:05:43.080 --> 00:05:44.599
+like of humanity using all of this.
+
+00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:46.519
+Like a lot of stuff you'll see
+
+00:05:46.520 --> 00:05:48.759
+corporations are using a lot of these things.
+
+00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:52.079
+And so like, just like if you look
+
+00:05:52.080 --> 00:05:54.359
+at water usage or energy uses in total,
+
+00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.639
+it's like really corporations that are using this.
+
+00:05:56.640 --> 00:05:58.519
+So there might, there's a lot of leverage there
+
+00:05:58.520 --> 00:06:01.399
+to make things more efficient as opposed to personal use.
+
+00:06:01.400 --> 00:06:06.119
+So I think it's wise to be cautious,
+
+00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:09.079
+but I think it's okay, I think, at least for personal use.
+
+00:06:09.080 --> 00:06:13.159
+The next question is another,
+
+00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:20.959
+yeah, this is also disagreeing with me about VS Code,
+
+00:06:20.960 --> 00:06:23.839
+but it says, I must say I liked your conclusion,
+
+00:06:23.840 --> 00:06:26.719
+but I differ insofar as you said that VS Code differs from Emacs
+
+00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.479
+because the former is not as easy to adapt as the latter.
+
+00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.559
+But why should Microsoft not adapt VS Code
+
+00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:35.759
+as we adapt Emacs for the new era of coding?
+
+00:06:35.760 --> 00:06:38.159
+And why would VS Code be harder hit?
+
+00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:43.599
+Could you please elaborate on this point? Yeah, thanks.
+
+00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:46.279
+This is a good question.
+
+00:06:46.280 --> 00:06:50.399
+I think maybe I wasn't as sharp on my point as I could be.
+
+00:06:50.400 --> 00:06:51.239
+Because I think the core
+
+00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:56.479
+of what I'm saying is like, there is a going to be a trend.
+
+00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:58.679
+I believe there will be a trend away from editing.
+
+00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.039
+And if we are going to be editing less,
+
+00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.559
+I think VS Code, like people will be in editors less.
+
+00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:06.919
+And that means people will be in VS Code less,
+
+00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:09.759
+people will probably be in Emacs less.
+
+00:07:09.760 --> 00:07:13.719
+And yes, I think you can, VS Code
+
+00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:15.399
+is to some degree extensible.
+
+00:07:15.400 --> 00:07:21.559
+but I think there's less of a community, or that is,
+
+00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:23.399
+I think the people using Emacs
+
+00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:25.319
+have used Emacs for a long time.
+
+00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:27.119
+They're going to continue to use Emacs.
+
+00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:28.279
+I speak for myself, but I know
+
+00:07:28.280 --> 00:07:30.119
+a lot of people here are kind of like this,
+
+00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.279
+and they're going to just, like,
+
+00:07:33.280 --> 00:07:37.759
+we have a lot of momentum to keep doing things in Emacs,
+
+00:07:37.760 --> 00:07:41.079
+and especially because we have a lot of things
+
+00:07:41.080 --> 00:07:42.799
+that we already do in Emacs.
+
+00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:45.079
+We do to-do lists and, you know, with org mode
+
+00:07:45.080 --> 00:07:47.479
+and some people read email
+
+00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:49.039
+and some people are using
+
+00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:50.959
+shells in Emacs and all these things,
+
+00:07:50.960 --> 00:07:53.959
+I think will make Emacs
+
+00:07:53.960 --> 00:07:55.559
+kind of a better environment
+
+00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:59.599
+if you want to do various editing like things in Emacs.
+
+00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:05.359
+In, you know, in an editing environment,
+
+00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.119
+because I think just emails can edit
+
+00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.239
+more types of things I think will naturally
+
+00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:10.959
+be a bit more useful than VS code,
+
+00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:14.079
+which people are really just using to edit code
+
+00:08:14.080 --> 00:08:16.799
+and if people find it less useful to edit code.
+
+00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.919
+I think it's VS code will be harder hit than emails
+
+00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:24.239
+because that's its whole like that's in the name
+
+00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:25.559
+like the whole reason for it
+
+00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:27.359
+to be doing things as to edit code.
+
+00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.839
+So I think that it's it's vulnerable
+
+00:08:30.840 --> 00:08:31.959
+in a way that Emacs isn't
+
+00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:34.519
+just because emacs is so very...
+
+00:08:34.520 --> 00:08:40.119
+you know, it's, it could do so many things
+
+00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:42.719
+and and people use it for so many different kinds of things
+
+00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:46.079
+that it's I think it's going to be
+
+00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:46.999
+a little bit more resilient.
+
+00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:48.879
+But as I said with the present.
+
+00:08:48.880 --> 00:08:52.639
+For those of us that are using Emacs,
+
+00:08:52.640 --> 00:08:55.159
+it's everywhere for us.
+
+00:08:55.160 --> 00:08:58.359
+Not necessarily everyone is an I live in Emacs person,
+
+00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:00.279
+but whatever you're using Emacs for,
+
+00:09:00.280 --> 00:09:02.999
+it is the thing you reach for to do that thing.
+
+00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.639
+Is that touching on the point?
+
+00:09:06.640 --> 00:09:09.079
+Yeah, that's a great way to say it.
+
+00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:12.439
+Thank you. Thank you, Colin. Yeah.
+
+00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:14.039
+Thank you. Thank you for that question.
+
+00:09:14.040 --> 00:09:18.759
+Do you think we're falling behind in productivity as Emacs users
+
+00:09:18.760 --> 00:09:19.959
+compared to all these VS code forks
+
+00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:21.799
+that have a thousand button and text boxes everywhere,
+
+00:09:21.800 --> 00:09:24.319
+which are basically much richer UIs,
+
+00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:25.719
+which are basically web pages?
+
+00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:28.799
+I do think Emacs is falling behind in some ways.
+
+00:09:28.800 --> 00:09:32.519
+I mean, it's definitely showing its age a little bit,
+
+00:09:32.520 --> 00:09:35.079
+especially you mentioned richer UIs
+
+00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:36.519
+that are basically web pages.
+
+00:09:36.520 --> 00:09:41.159
+I mean, this I think is one of the big problems Emacs has
+
+00:09:41.160 --> 00:09:46.479
+is that it uses a very, you know, a much more ancient way
+
+00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:49.799
+of kind of doing UIs that is not particularly flexible
+
+00:09:49.800 --> 00:09:55.959
+and not particularly comfortable for any modern UI coder.
+
+00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:58.639
+And I think if you look at the Emacs stuff out there,
+
+00:09:58.640 --> 00:10:01.959
+like, yes, you can do a few things with UIs.
+
+00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:04.759
+You can have some amount of UI richness,
+
+00:10:04.760 --> 00:10:06.279
+but it's pretty limited.
+
+00:10:06.280 --> 00:10:07.839
+And I kind of, if there's one thing
+
+00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:09.079
+I could wish for in Emacs,
+
+00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:12.519
+it's sort of like, I kind of wish Emacs could be on a,
+
+00:10:12.520 --> 00:10:18.199
+could be built on top of basically like Atom or something like that,
+
+00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:20.399
+where it's like a web framework
+
+00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:24.639
+that allows us to write actual rich pages,
+
+00:10:24.640 --> 00:10:29.639
+rich UIs in a modern style using things like CSS
+
+00:10:29.640 --> 00:10:33.599
+instead of the kinds of things Emacs lets you do.
+
+00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:37.199
+But that said, that is an advantage
+
+00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:38.959
+of VS Code and other editors like that.
+
+00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:45.079
+I think that Emacs does a good job
+
+00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:46.719
+of eventually catching up
+
+00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:49.759
+to all sorts of things people are doing in other editors.
+
+00:10:49.760 --> 00:10:52.599
+It's often that other editors get there first,
+
+00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:55.479
+but there's a lot of momentum
+
+00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:57.839
+to kind of keep Emacs fresh, keep it modern.
+
+00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.119
+And it's pretty easy to- I love that.
+
+00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:05.679
+I forgot about the lag. We do have a little bit of lag,
+
+00:11:05.680 --> 00:11:07.999
+but I just, I find that very captivating.
+
+00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.359
+We have with technologies
+
+00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:12.399
+like Apache Cassandra in the database world,
+
+00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:14.879
+we have this idea of eventual concurrency.
+
+00:11:14.880 --> 00:11:17.559
+And you make me think with Emacs,
+
+00:11:17.560 --> 00:11:21.279
+we have this idea of eventual feature parity, right?
+
+00:11:21.280 --> 00:11:23.919
+If a feature stays desirable long enough,
+
+00:11:23.920 --> 00:11:25.879
+Emacs will eventually grow it.
+
+00:11:25.880 --> 00:11:32.159
+I think that's a very contagious idea. Yeah, yeah, thanks.
+
+00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:35.839
+I hope that idea makes sense. And I hope it's correct,
+
+00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.919
+because I think that I do want Emacs to continue to succeed.
+
+00:11:39.920 --> 00:11:43.439
+And I personally, using Emacs,
+
+00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.479
+do not feel myself falling behind in productivity.
+
+00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:51.759
+That said, there's a lot of ways that Emacs can improve
+
+00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:53.519
+and should improve on this front.
+
+00:11:53.520 --> 00:11:56.599
+And a lot of these ways are pretty fundamental.
+
+00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:59.719
+So I kind of hope people pay a lot of attention
+
+00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.439
+to some of these more fundamental lower-level Emacs things
+
+00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:04.879
+that really allows the packages
+
+00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:07.599
+to do more richer and better things.
+
+00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:10.359
+Sorry, you have a ton of questions.
+
+00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:12.279
+I shouldn't be doing so much active listening.
+
+00:12:12.280 --> 00:12:17.479
+No, no, I appreciate your input.
+
+00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:23.079
+OK, next is I've been using Claude Code extensively.
+
+00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:25.519
+I recently switched to Agent Shell with Claude Code.
+
+00:12:25.520 --> 00:12:28.039
+Have you tried it? And what are your thoughts?
+
+00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:30.279
+I actually have tried Agent Shell.
+
+00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:34.719
+And currently, I recorded this video like three months ago.
+
+00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:38.119
+So Agent Shell did not exist then.
+
+00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:39.719
+If Agent Shell did exist,
+
+00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:41.239
+I probably would have demoed it as well.
+
+00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:45.359
+Agent Hell is great in the sense of it's
+
+00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:53.719
+It does use comment, which is the way that I think all Emacs users
+
+00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:57.039
+would prefer to interact with something like Claude Code,
+
+00:12:57.040 --> 00:13:00.199
+or any of those types of tools, which is like, I don't.
+
+00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:02.719
+Um, the other,
+
+00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:05.159
+but it's a trade-off it uses like on the back
+
+00:13:05.160 --> 00:13:06.959
+and it's, it has a common buffer.
+
+00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:08.759
+And then on the back end, it's using a protocol
+
+00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:11.759
+to talk to agent, uh, to Claude Code and other things.
+
+00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:15.399
+The problem is this has a lot of problems.
+
+00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:16.799
+For example, like you don't have
+
+00:13:16.800 --> 00:13:18.319
+completion of slash commands.
+
+00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.119
+You don't have, um, if you ask to see the, in Claude Code,
+
+00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:24.319
+you can get a visual representation of. the context window.
+
+00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:30.239
+But you can't do this. I mean, last time I tried,
+
+00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:31.719
+I couldn't do this in agent shell.
+
+00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.399
+It's progressing rapidly.
+
+00:13:33.400 --> 00:13:37.479
+But it's not as rich in functionality
+
+00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.119
+as using quad code directly.
+
+00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:44.839
+On the other hand, because it's letting Emacs be Emacs
+
+00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:49.239
+and using comment, it's a much better experience
+
+00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:50.919
+to actually give instructions.
+
+00:13:50.920 --> 00:13:56.519
+I think the maximum power, though, is, to me,
+
+00:13:56.520 --> 00:13:58.479
+the best way is still like, you know,
+
+00:13:58.480 --> 00:13:59.399
+do your editing in org mode,
+
+00:13:59.400 --> 00:14:02.359
+and then just tell, you could have,
+
+00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:06.959
+you know, the richer experience of using
+
+00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:13.639
+of using Claude Code in, in it's more like shell like form
+
+00:14:13.640 --> 00:14:15.559
+where everything is, it's much, you know,
+
+00:14:15.560 --> 00:14:17.079
+designed to be used in the terminal,
+
+00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:18.759
+but you don't have to type in that much
+
+00:14:18.760 --> 00:14:20.039
+because you're really doing your typing
+
+00:14:20.040 --> 00:14:21.439
+in order to me, I think there's
+
+00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.519
+kind of the sweet spot that I like.
+
+00:14:23.520 --> 00:14:26.639
+Um, but HHL is a great step forward
+
+00:14:26.640 --> 00:14:29.879
+and I think it's, uh, it's quite good to use.
+
+00:14:29.880 --> 00:14:32.119
+And I, I personally use it a lot.
+
+00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:40.479
+Um, OK, so in terms of, next question,
+
+00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:41.839
+in terms of agent selection,
+
+00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:44.639
+what has been your experience with different agents?
+
+00:14:44.640 --> 00:14:48.079
+And have you had any success with hosting your own models
+
+00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:49.439
+and using open weights?
+
+00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:54.159
+I think there's, you know, many people
+
+00:14:54.160 --> 00:14:56.519
+have many different opinions on this.
+
+00:14:56.520 --> 00:15:00.839
+I think Claude Code is, most people I know
+
+00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.479
+would say Claude Code is probably,
+
+00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:07.479
+sorry, Cloud is probably the best for coding right now.
+
+00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.919
+Gemini can be very hit and miss even with 3.0,
+
+00:15:09.920 --> 00:15:12.519
+but Claude is quite good.
+
+00:15:12.520 --> 00:15:16.119
+4.5 Opus is actually relatively cheap
+
+00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:21.119
+compared to the previous version of 4.1 Opus.
+
+00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:24.239
+There's other models out there,
+
+00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:29.159
+but I think most people just stick with Claude
+
+00:15:29.160 --> 00:15:33.999
+because it's very reliable, it's very good,
+
+00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:36.479
+and nothing is obviously better than that.
+
+00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:41.039
+And as far as DeepSeek is pretty good as well,
+
+00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:42.079
+and then much cheaper.
+
+00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.839
+I've had some good luck using that locally,
+
+00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.159
+but actually the problem is for my day-to-day machine,
+
+00:15:50.160 --> 00:15:53.079
+like my personal machine,
+
+00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.679
+it's not powerful enough to run anything locally.
+
+00:15:55.680 --> 00:15:58.479
+And my work machine, it is powerful enough,
+
+00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:02.079
+but I can spend my company's money at will
+
+00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:03.759
+on more powerful models.
+
+00:16:03.760 --> 00:16:05.519
+So there's really not a lot of incentive
+
+00:16:05.520 --> 00:16:06.439
+for me to run locally.
+
+00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:12.199
+I think, as far as I know, I haven't heard
+
+00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.359
+of local models being incredible,
+
+00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:16.879
+but I think you can get reasonable quality with them.
+
+00:16:16.880 --> 00:16:19.159
+That is, especially if you're doing
+
+00:16:19.160 --> 00:16:20.279
+relatively simple things,
+
+00:16:20.280 --> 00:16:25.679
+I think it's pretty reasonable to be using those.
+
+00:16:25.680 --> 00:16:29.959
+Also, they tend to be slower
+
+00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.279
+than the models that are elsewhere
+
+00:16:33.280 --> 00:16:36.319
+just because they just have more horsepower,
+
+00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.679
+they can churn through those tokens a little quicker.
+
+00:16:38.680 --> 00:16:44.719
+So, I'll just break in here to say,
+
+00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.239
+we've got about 7 minutes left
+
+00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.239
+before we're cutting over this great discussion so far.
+
+00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:50.839
+I'm very happy to keep going.
+
+00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:55.399
+There's no time limit, but at a certain point,
+
+00:16:55.400 --> 00:16:56.479
+I may have to leave
+
+00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:58.679
+to jump in and prep with the next speaker,
+
+00:16:58.680 --> 00:17:00.359
+but you'll be able to keep going
+
+00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:02.599
+as long as you have the steam for it.
+
+00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:06.159
+Yeah, I think we have 3 questions. Yeah, thanks.
+
+00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.239
+I think we have 3 questions.
+
+00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:09.719
+Let's see if we can get through them
+
+00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:17.359
+all in that time period. OK, this one is interesting talk.
+
+00:17:17.360 --> 00:17:20.439
+I'll start by asking it for everything, but is it editing?
+
+00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.239
+I think there's more of a comment than a question.
+
+00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:29.719
+So yes, let us all ask, but is it editing?
+
+00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:33.439
+All right. I can move on to the comment area.
+
+00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:40.319
+I'm reading angst in your thinking about AI editing.
+
+00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:41.839
+I think that's true.
+
+00:17:41.840 --> 00:17:44.119
+It says, and the question continues with,
+
+00:17:44.120 --> 00:17:45.159
+what are you excited about?
+
+00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.719
+Wow, that's an interesting question.
+
+00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:53.799
+I mean, I think there are possibilities.
+
+00:17:53.800 --> 00:17:58.719
+Like, yes, people are going in sort of a relatively obvious direction
+
+00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.439
+with LLMs right now.
+
+00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.599
+And I think there's lots of opportunities,
+
+00:18:04.600 --> 00:18:07.839
+clever opportunities to do things
+
+00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:11.079
+we couldn't have thought of Things that are useful,
+
+00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:14.919
+but in ways that are not super obvious to us,
+
+00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.519
+and I think I'm still excited
+
+00:18:18.520 --> 00:18:23.839
+about the possibilities of using them in ways that are super helpful
+
+00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:29.319
+and different than. normal. I'll give you an example.
+
+00:18:29.320 --> 00:18:33.199
+This is something that I intend to, I think,
+
+00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.479
+post on Reddit in a few days,
+
+00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.399
+but I have a extension to eshell
+
+00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:43.439
+where you can prefix a command with at,
+
+00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:45.199
+and then just tell it what you want to do,
+
+00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:46.919
+and it will substitute the command
+
+00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:51.919
+that you are thinking of. Because often, I do not remember.
+
+00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:56.919
+I never remember, like, how do you find a file in a directory tree,
+
+00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.159
+you know, recursing? Who can remember how to do that?
+
+00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.799
+It's like a find, and there's like a dash print there somewhere.
+
+00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:10.159
+Yes. There are some smart people who remember this
+
+00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:11.199
+but I am not one of them.
+
+00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.639
+And so I think like something like this is like you just type out,
+
+00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:17.279
+find me this file, and it will substitute
+
+00:19:17.280 --> 00:19:18.879
+the correct command.
+
+00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.999
+I think this is, there's a lot of little,
+
+00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.319
+little tweaks you could do like, you know, if you want the AI,
+
+00:19:24.320 --> 00:19:26.679
+it could be there for you. And it will help you.
+
+00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:27.559
+And if you don't want it,
+
+00:19:27.560 --> 00:19:28.919
+it's not going to get in your way.
+
+00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:30.639
+And I think this is where eMath can really shine.
+
+00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.079
+It can really take advantage of LLMs,
+
+00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:35.799
+but still remain true to its kind of editing experience,
+
+00:19:35.800 --> 00:19:39.319
+because it's not forcing you to use LLMs all the time.
+
+00:19:39.320 --> 00:19:43.919
+So thank you for that great question.
+
+00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.919
+And then the final question. Yep.
+
+00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:50.839
+This final question is, why does it matter to have a richer UI?
+
+00:19:50.840 --> 00:19:53.439
+All this left is basically running and getting the results.
+
+00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.119
+I think maybe this is a response to me complaining
+
+00:19:56.120 --> 00:19:58.479
+about Emacs not having a richer UI before,
+
+00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:03.159
+but I think it does matter a lot for all sorts of things.
+
+00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:07.159
+It's hard to kind of explain succinctly
+
+00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:08.519
+because I'm talking about UI
+
+00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:09.759
+and I'd have to show you things.
+
+00:20:09.760 --> 00:20:14.599
+But it should be just something like oh I have an error
+
+00:20:14.600 --> 00:20:15.799
+and I'm using flymake and I'm,
+
+00:20:15.800 --> 00:20:17.759
+I'm using the you know I have options
+
+00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:19.839
+where it'll show me the error in line
+
+00:20:19.840 --> 00:20:22.639
+by like underlining things and having a little message,
+
+00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.079
+but like, you know what that message
+
+00:20:24.080 --> 00:20:26.399
+doesn't appear quite right, a lot of the times,
+
+00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.159
+or here's another one like. I program in Python a lot.
+
+00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.479
+And Python, it's super hard to program in
+
+00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:35.279
+unless you have these little vertical lines
+
+00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:37.599
+that shows you what the indents are. At least I find it.
+
+00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:40.479
+There are two packages that do that.
+
+00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:43.039
+None of them do it particularly well,
+
+00:20:43.040 --> 00:20:44.599
+just because Emacs at its base
+
+00:20:44.600 --> 00:20:45.919
+does not allow you to do this.
+
+00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:47.759
+And so you kind of have to hack it in.
+
+00:20:47.760 --> 00:20:49.479
+And there's lots of ways to mess it up.
+
+00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.799
+And when editing, you'll find yourself messing this thing up.
+
+00:20:52.800 --> 00:20:57.159
+regularly. So it doesn't look quite clean.
+
+00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.079
+And like, there's little artifacts,
+
+00:20:59.080 --> 00:21:01.039
+or, you know, there's little ways that it,
+
+00:21:01.040 --> 00:21:02.359
+it kind of gets things wrong,
+
+00:21:02.360 --> 00:21:06.279
+or you can, you can get things wrong with it.
+
+00:21:06.280 --> 00:21:10.039
+So I think that, like,
+
+00:21:10.040 --> 00:21:11.879
+there's a lot of issues with that sort of thing.
+
+00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.759
+And, and also, like, you know,
+
+00:21:15.760 --> 00:21:17.719
+what if you want to do something like play a video inline,
+
+00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:19.559
+like, I don't know, you might should be able to do that,
+
+00:21:19.560 --> 00:21:20.839
+you might should be able to do anything.
+
+00:21:20.840 --> 00:21:23.799
+But right now it just can't and I think
+
+00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:24.999
+a lot of the reason as well
+
+00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.519
+we you know we wanted to be compatible
+
+00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:29.919
+with you know TRS 80 machines or something like that
+
+00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.159
+and it's this is important this really is important,
+
+00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:34.719
+but I hope there's some way
+
+00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.079
+that we can kind of eventually figure out
+
+00:21:36.080 --> 00:21:39.279
+how to get the best of you know both compatibility and.
+
+00:21:39.280 --> 00:21:44.879
+more modern UIs. So, you know, we can have more modern UIs
+
+00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:49.839
+for people that have modern machines and other people
+
+00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:51.959
+either do without that functionality
+
+00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:54.319
+or sort of fall back to some reasonable default.
+
+00:21:54.320 --> 00:21:59.079
+So we have about 30 seconds or a minute.
+
+00:21:59.080 --> 00:22:00.679
+I know there's one more question.
+
+00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:01.559
+I'd love for you to get to it.
+
+00:22:01.560 --> 00:22:02.839
+I just want to make sure that
+
+00:22:02.840 --> 00:22:04.239
+while we're still live on stream,
+
+00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:05.519
+you get a chance to share
+
+00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:06.799
+any closing remarks you might have.
+
+00:22:06.800 --> 00:22:10.879
+Thank you for that. Um, yes.
+
+00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.519
+So first of all, I want to thank everyone involved for listening.
+
+00:22:14.520 --> 00:22:18.919
+And I want to thank the core when I think thanks for moderating this.
+
+00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.279
+And Sacha, thank you for putting that together.
+
+00:22:21.280 --> 00:22:21.919
+And I know there's more people
+
+00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.319
+that are working behind the scenes.
+
+00:22:23.320 --> 00:22:25.079
+So thank you all for putting this together.
+
+00:22:25.080 --> 00:22:29.199
+I'm so happy that we all are here. We care about Emacs.
+
+00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:31.199
+We're pushing Emacs forward.
+
+00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:35.959
+We are I think Emacs remains
+
+00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:37.279
+this really remarkable achievement.
+
+00:22:37.280 --> 00:22:41.799
+Like it's amazing that it exists. It continues to exist.
+
+00:22:41.800 --> 00:22:42.999
+It hasn't got, it's hard.
+
+00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.159
+It's like, really, there's a lot of work to go into it.
+
+00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.559
+So I think let's all just appreciate everyone who,
+
+00:22:47.560 --> 00:22:50.679
+who like contributes and makes all of this possible.
+
+00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:52.159
+Cause it's, if you ever read
+
+00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:53.279
+the Emacs Develop mailing list,
+
+00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:55.479
+it's a lot of work, a lot of deep thinking,
+
+00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:56.679
+a lot of careful thinking.
+
+00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:58.599
+And I think this is really important.
+
+00:22:58.600 --> 00:23:02.039
+So thank you, especially to the maintainers of Emacs
+
+00:23:02.040 --> 00:23:04.199
+and everyone who's contributing to the core experience,
+
+00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:07.759
+all the libraries, all the LLM stuff we mentioned before.
+
+00:23:07.760 --> 00:23:09.839
+You're all doing such a fantastic job.
+
+00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:13.799
+It's exciting to be here. Thank you for your talk, Andrew.
+
+00:23:13.800 --> 00:23:16.159
+It's been just fascinating.
+
+00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.759
+If you don't mind, I'd love to jump
+
+00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:23.879
+right over to the last question. OK, let's do that.
+
+00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.599
+It says, I have 45 plus years editing programming.
+
+00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:29.239
+I'm not sure I can think about things
+
+00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:31.039
+without thinking of buffers, editors, et cetera.
+
+00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:31.959
+Is this the handicap?
+
+00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.239
+Should we have people with no experience
+
+00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:35.319
+with code learning to prompt?
+
+00:23:35.320 --> 00:23:38.799
+Well, this is something I do have a strong opinion about.
+
+00:23:38.800 --> 00:23:42.159
+I feel like I do not want to see people that have no experience
+
+00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.119
+with code learning to prompt. I think it's very limited
+
+00:23:44.120 --> 00:23:46.039
+what you could do right now with that.
+
+00:23:46.040 --> 00:23:48.439
+Like you could do, if you could sort of one-shot it,
+
+00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:51.999
+that is like, I have something that's relatively easy,
+
+00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.879
+And it could do it, and I'm going to tell it to do it,
+
+00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.039
+and then I'm going to give feedback.
+
+00:23:56.040 --> 00:24:00.039
+OK, as long as this is for relatively short-lived things,
+
+00:24:00.040 --> 00:24:02.599
+I think that works well. But for people who really care
+
+00:24:02.600 --> 00:24:04.279
+about the longevity of their code,
+
+00:24:04.280 --> 00:24:06.599
+really care about software engineering,
+
+00:24:06.600 --> 00:24:09.879
+which is software engineering is very different than just writing code.
+
+00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:11.879
+Software engineering is about maintainability.
+
+00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.119
+Software engineering is making sure everything is scalable
+
+00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:19.599
+and all sorts of things that it's unlikely,
+
+00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:21.759
+I think, that an LM is going to get right.
+
+00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:25.279
+And I've seen a lot of bad cases
+
+00:24:25.280 --> 00:24:27.199
+where people who don't understand code
+
+00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.159
+are doing things and it's not working well
+
+00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:33.239
+because they don't understand
+
+00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.279
+some of the some of the complexities
+
+00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:36.959
+or some of the concerns that that you might have
+
+00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:43.279
+in maintaining a piece of code.
+
+00:24:43.280 --> 00:24:45.759
+So I think those people who have lots of experience
+
+00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:46.959
+are the best people to use this.
+
+00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:48.119
+And I think that's what we're seeing
+
+00:24:48.120 --> 00:24:49.079
+in the industry as well,
+
+00:24:49.080 --> 00:24:51.639
+where more senior people are doing quite well
+
+00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:54.599
+because they're able to use LLMs
+
+00:24:54.600 --> 00:24:56.559
+more effectively than junior people.
+
+00:24:56.560 --> 00:25:00.999
+That may all even out because LLMs get even better,
+
+00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.079
+but for now hasn't happened.
+
+00:25:03.080 --> 00:25:06.319
+So I think, you know, I also have a ton of experience,
+
+00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:13.079
+not 45 years, but a lot. And, and I think that it's those,
+
+00:25:13.080 --> 00:25:14.839
+those years of experience will only help you.
+
+00:25:14.840 --> 00:25:16.919
+And I think it's, it's, it's a great,
+
+00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:19.639
+it's great to kind of dip your toes in the water
+
+00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:20.732
+and see what you can do.