add IRC

1 files changed, 50 insertions, 16 deletions

diff --git a/2024/talks/gypsum.md b/2024/talks/gypsum.md
index a76afb02..c566357c 100644
--- a/2024/talks/gypsum.md
+++ b/2024/talks/gypsum.md
@@ -375,11 +375,13 @@ You may also like another talk by this speaker:
     -   A: Plan is to keep up-to-date with new releases. So new GNU
         feature should be included with each release. But also intend to
         have support for pure Scheme features.
--   Q: \<janneke\> If Emacs Lisp support for Guile was documented
+-   Q: If Emacs Lisp support for Guile was documented
     better, could you be nudged/convinced to (re)start using, and
     contributing to that?
     -   A: Compatibility is the most important things. Documentation not
         sufficient to convince users to switch.
+    - IRC: Where do you think elisp documentation should be improved? I've always found the built in documentation to be excellent
+      - janneke is referring to Guile's ELisp support, I believe; sorry, i meant the documentation of guile's elisp backend
 -   Q: Why is being able to interpret all of \`init.el\` an useful goal?
     Sure, there is a lot of code written in elisp - can we consider a
     translator like utility to convert elisp to scheme, once guile-emacs
@@ -398,10 +400,10 @@ You may also like another talk by this speaker:
         communication via stdin/stdout; so you can reuse existing scheme
         libraries. Dynamic libraries not a goal. Rg/ripgrep probably the
         same with process communication.
--   Q: \<xlarsx\`\> Why is it not feasible for the Emacs layer that interprets Emacs Lisp (the core in C) ot have a Scheme interpreter, instead of using Guile?
-    -   A: \<gringo\> Guile is a scheme. Not sure what you mean.
-    -   A: Check presentation later of Robin Templeton (\"Beguiling
-        Emacs: Guile-Emacs relaunched!\"): the attempt exists by
+-   Q: Why is it not feasible for the Emacs layer that interprets Emacs Lisp (the core in C) ot have a Scheme interpreter, instead of using Guile?
+    -   A: Guile is a scheme. Not sure what you mean.
+    -   A: Check presentation later of Robin Templeton ("Beguiling
+        Emacs: Guile-Emacs relaunched!"): the attempt exists by
         translating elisp to guile. 
         -   thank you
 
@@ -409,20 +411,52 @@ You may also like another talk by this speaker:
 
 -   -   A: Cool name, but did not check if it is already used. Feel free
         to discuss by email.
--   Q: \<gringo\> I'm curious to know how the hell guile-emacs deals with all of the dynamically scoped modules out there. Is there any effort to automatically modularize and namespace stuff?
+-   Q: I'm curious to know how the hell guile-emacs deals with all of the dynamically scoped modules out there. Is there any effort to automatically modularize and namespace stuff?
 
 ## Notes
 
--   \<robin\> oo neat, i didn\'t know about that first bit of history
--   \<janneke\> i\'ve heard rms say that scheme (guile) is just a nicer
-    lisp; but didn\'t know there were concrete talks/attempts to use
-    guile for emacs that early
--   \<tusharhero\> Q: Not really a question, but how about Schemacs as a
-    name?
--   \<janneke\> robin: yes, guile-elisp not being portable might be a
-    showstopper
--                       for ramin
-
+- oo neat, i didn't know about that first bit of history
+- i've heard rms say that scheme (guile) is just a nicer
+  lisp; but didn't know there were concrete talks/attempts to use
+  guile for emacs that early
+- robin: yes, guile-elisp not being portable might be a
+  showstopper for ramin
+- I've heard good things about guile from guix people. Never really tried it out
+- FWIW, I think there have been various attempts to make an Emacs clone in Common Lisp. I guess lem is currently the most active. https://github.com/lem-project/lem/
+- I like how he edited his slide mid-presentation.
+- https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GuileEmacsHistory has some info on very efforts; i was surprised that there were so many (especially with old-school guile, eww ;))
+- joining for all the guiles and all the emacsen
+- He's got a long way to go.
+- of course there were, RMS had decreed that guile was the GNU scripting language and it was a bit embarrassing that it was so little-used...
+  - At least Guix uses it now.
+  - oh yes, guile 3 was a great step forward, and I do wonder how much of that was due to the impetus of its having real users :)
+- if you're interested in guile emacs, be sure to check out robin's guile talk this afternoon
+- nice, my silly https://gitlab.com/janneke/guimax also used guile-gi but this looks much more mature
+- developed actively til 2014, but more recent work is on a branch so may not be as obvious...
+- so...i guess that some basic documentation on elisp may be very helpful
+- wbn if you could join efforts somehow
+  - there should definitely be some overlap between the projects
+- I have 6500 interactive ones, according to Vertico...
+  - I got 8021 interactive ones ;)
+  - 7690 here
+  - 34557 callables \o/
+- working towards a similar goal approached from different directions
+  - however, working on guile's elisp backend may be a common ground
+- ramin's probably talking about subrs, i.e. primitives not themselves implemented in elisp
+- you mean providing modularization for elisp programs? or something else
+- Being more specific, removing the need to namespace every single internal variable/procedure in an elisp module. Maybe that isn't a goal, but I wish it were
+  - yes, i have some ideas for adapting the CL package system for that. it'd have to be opt-in, maybe some tools for automated refactoring
+- And... the part where we need more bandwidth for any core runtime efforts to be viable
+- my-special-module--loop-variable-3
+- How can I get involved with this? if I want to contribute
+  - hang out in #guile-emacs and/or subscribe to the mailing lists https://guile-emacs.org/
+- an embryonic re-implementation by ramin of emacs in guile, with their own new elisp interpreter that should be r7rs compatible
+- would love robin's guile-emacs and ramin's efforts to somehow share some of their efforts
+- Robin's talk mentions developing a better elisp in Scheme. Why can't your project leverage it?
+- guile-elisp is part of guile's compiler system (elisp -> tree-il -> cps -> bytecode), unless another scheme sets out to be guile-compatible in that respect it won't be portable at all
+- To be fair, I've been screwing around with chicken, guile, and racket. I haven't found any 2 scheme implementations to be compatible, even within SRFI implementations
+  - Just the basic syntax and semantics, nothing else
+  - yeah, scheme's lack of portable libraries in practice motivated me to suggest something that's sure to piss everyone off; Javascript
 
 [[!inline pages="internal(2024/info/gypsum-after)" raw="yes"]]