diff options
| author | Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> | 2024-12-11 11:46:50 -0500 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> | 2024-12-11 11:46:50 -0500 |
| commit | 6ee8b10f12b3fd47af6402c7241343236b100b66 (patch) | |
| tree | 76f37dee4613f38f56efbc529d442c7330ace48e /2024/info/emacs30-after.md | |
| parent | da371370d5e25496fc7c89bb0a1848a9292402b6 (diff) | |
| download | emacsconf-wiki-6ee8b10f12b3fd47af6402c7241343236b100b66.tar.xz emacsconf-wiki-6ee8b10f12b3fd47af6402c7241343236b100b66.zip | |
Q&A updates
Diffstat (limited to '')
| -rw-r--r-- | 2024/info/emacs30-after.md | 665 |
1 files changed, 309 insertions, 356 deletions
diff --git a/2024/info/emacs30-after.md b/2024/info/emacs30-after.md index 2deef373..028e4cec 100644 --- a/2024/info/emacs30-after.md +++ b/2024/info/emacs30-after.md @@ -467,362 +467,315 @@ Captioner: anush <div class="transcript transcript-qanda"><a name="emacs30-qanda-transcript"></a><h1>Q&A transcript (unedited)</h1> -[[!template text="""And I believe we are live. Hi Philippe, how are you doing?""" start="00:00:04.751" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Oh, did we lose Philippe? Is it bad luck or am I the only one not""" start="00:00:11.297" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""able to hear him?""" start="00:00:14.219" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Give us just a second, folks.""" start="00:00:19.624" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Okay, so I'm not sure what is happening now, folks. We had""" start="00:00:35.683" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Philip talking literally two seconds before we went live.""" start="00:00:37.804" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""I'm not sure if it's the curse again, but I'm going to start""" start="00:00:40.766" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""getting... It's here too, if it's anything. It's our BBB.""" start="00:00:40.766" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""All right, so we're going to be doing a little bit of jazz""" start="00:00:52.372" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""handing as usual. Hopefully, Philip will be able to join us""" start="00:00:52.372" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""again fairly quickly.""" start="00:00:55.813" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""I'll make sure for the jazz handing, Leo, it's the highlight""" start="00:01:05.546" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""of my weekend. I'm glad the visible anguish and the stress""" start="00:01:05.546" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that I feel during those moments is at least palatable to""" start="00:01:12.153" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""some people watching. That's right. Although I understand""" start="00:01:12.153" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""among, you know, it is commonly seen as a poison among my""" start="00:01:21.842" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""people, it is considered a delicacy.""" start="00:01:21.842" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Okay, so I see plenty of questions for Philip as well. So""" start="00:01:31.690" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""hopefully he is just a restart away from joining us. And""" start="00:01:33.672" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""yeah, I feel bad if we don't get this sorted out because I for""" start="00:01:37.595" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""one had a lovely chat, kind of in the green room, just doing""" start="00:01:37.595" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""our tech shakedown, which went absolutely swimmingly. No""" start="00:01:37.595" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""problems until we cut the stream over. Sorry, everyone.""" start="00:01:51.929" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Yeah, and in the meantime, if you feel like getting your""" start="00:01:56.789" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""questions ready so that as soon as Philippe joins us, you'll""" start="00:01:56.789" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""be able to quickfire through most of your questions. And I""" start="00:01:56.789" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""already see plenty of them. Thank you again to all the people""" start="00:02:05.805" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""writing down the questions.""" start="00:02:07.047" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""And afterwards, well this was the last talk of the day, so""" start="00:02:21.472" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""we'll be moving to the close for today. We won't be too long,""" start="00:02:21.472" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""just in case you're a European like me and you need to go to""" start="00:02:27.618" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""sleep. Don't worry, we'll keep you at most five minutes.""" start="00:02:27.618" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""We've just got a couple of quick bases we wanna hit, make sure""" start="00:02:35.017" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""everyone's organized to plan their day for tomorrow. Thank""" start="00:02:35.017" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""you so much, those of you who are joining us live, as well as""" start="00:02:42.483" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""everyone who put so much time and effort before this""" start="00:02:42.483" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""weekend, from Leo and my perspective, if you're watching""" start="00:02:42.483" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""this recorded. Yeah, thanks everybody for all your work""" start="00:02:42.483" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""coming together to create this community project of Emacs""" start="00:02:56.393" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Conf. It's a ton of fun. All right, and Philippe, I believe""" start="00:02:56.393" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""you are back. Did you have a very momentous crash on your end?""" start="00:03:05.529" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Yes, I believe it was just in the right moments to...""" start="00:03:09.771" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""So what I'll do, I'll give you presenter again so that you...""" start="00:03:09.771" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""I mean, do you have your screen set up or do you need to...""" start="00:03:09.771" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Maybe I shouldn't do presenter. I have the feeling that""" start="00:03:09.771" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""could have been related to the crash and I'll just...""" start="00:03:24.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""visually describe anything. Well, the camera looks great.""" start="00:03:31.004" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""You sound great. And on the stream, my eyeball says it looks""" start="00:03:33.466" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""great with Leo doing the streaming. So I say let's dive right""" start="00:03:34.827" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""in. You got a long, huge line. And in order to be a little more""" start="00:03:40.392" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""dialectical, I'll be reading the questions. So first""" start="00:03:44.936" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""question, which key was a third party package for a long""" start="00:03:48.699" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""time? Is there work to bring any other popular packages into""" start="00:03:48.699" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""the core of Emacs for Emacs 31 plus, like Magit or Council?""" start="00:03:52.783" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Uh, right. I already answered that one on the, as you can see,""" start="00:04:00.894" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""uh, right. Yeah. Do you want to quickly read the answer so""" start="00:04:01.294" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that everyone, I just can read it out again. Um, as far as I""" start="00:04:05.337" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""remember, the one package that was being discussed just""" start="00:04:10.141" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""around the time that the Emacs 30 branch was cut was macro""" start="00:04:10.141" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""step. That's the package that was like, does an overlay, uh,""" start="00:04:10.141" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""replaces a macro with the macro expansion using overlays.""" start="00:04:18.327" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""So you don't have to pop up another buffer, modified,""" start="00:04:24.952" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""modified current buffer. But we didn't manage to address""" start="00:04:24.952" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""all the concerns in time for the Emacs 30 cuts and I believe""" start="00:04:29.113" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""it's sort of stagnated around that but it might be picked up""" start="00:04:29.113" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""anytime someone mentions it on Emacs Devil again. Another""" start="00:04:29.113" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""package question mentioned was Magit. That's a constant""" start="00:04:40.679" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""discussion regarding Magit. And actually, from the top of""" start="00:04:43.561" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""my head, I can't recall if Magit is on non-GNU ELPA or GNU ELPA""" start="00:04:47.004" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""right now. It's still on non-GNU ELPA.""" start="00:04:47.004" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""For those who don't know, only packages which are in ELPA are""" start="00:04:58.553" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""considered for addition, considered to be added to the""" start="00:04:58.553" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Emacs core, to be bundled along with Emacs. And then there's""" start="00:04:58.553" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""another totally parallel discussion about having a sort of""" start="00:05:08.971" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""fat Emacs distribution, I call it fat Emacs distribution,""" start="00:05:08.971" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""where Emacs comes with a lot of ELPA packages or the""" start="00:05:08.971" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""pre-installed by default. Part of Emacs itself. Yeah.""" start="00:05:08.971" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Darna, maybe I could jump in with an active listening style,""" start="00:05:28.530" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""you know, kind of follow up question almost. You know, I""" start="00:05:28.530" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""understand the kind of different repositories. We have""" start="00:05:36.072" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""things that aren't maintained by GNU at all, you know, most""" start="00:05:39.933" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""notably Melba. And then we have kind of non-GNU ELPA, which""" start="00:05:39.933" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""is sort of an entryway project where it's not necessarily""" start="00:05:49.435" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""curated, but there'll be some advice given, which you can""" start="00:05:49.435" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""take or leave. And that's the repository where anything""" start="00:05:49.435" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that was the newer repository that represents, you know,""" start="00:05:59.078" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""help, you know, help, help supplied from GNU. And then""" start="00:05:59.078" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""there's the, actually the GNU, the GNU ELPA, what most of us""" start="00:06:09.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""are used to calling just ELPA. And that's what you're""" start="00:06:09.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""talking about there when you say,""" start="00:06:16.282" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""I mean all packages on Elpa are officially considered to be""" start="00:06:21.908" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""part of Emacs, they're licensed under the same conditions""" start="00:06:21.908" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""as Emacs itself, same license, same everything. And""" start="00:06:21.908" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""they're more likely to be, to drop, to kind of be dropping""" start="00:06:33.874" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""patched. Oh yeah, it's time for this to move to core. Is that""" start="00:06:33.874" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""right? They have the legal conditions for that to be done.""" start="00:06:40.378" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Everything's necessary from a paperwork standpoint. I""" start="00:06:46.081" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""mean, but other than that, there's not really a big""" start="00:06:50.764" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""difference between GNU-ELPA and non-GNU-ELPA. It's""" start="00:06:50.764" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""really just the main thing is this copyrights notice. So if""" start="00:06:54.426" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""you want to add a package to ELPA, to GNU ELPA, then all""" start="00:06:56.888" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""significance contributors have to have signed the FSF""" start="00:06:58.929" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""copyright assignment and the package script, actually the""" start="00:06:58.929" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""ELPA build script, checks if the copyright lines are all""" start="00:06:58.929" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""attributed to the Free Software Foundation.""" start="00:06:58.929" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""But that's not going to attach, right? So because that's not""" start="00:07:20.356" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""in place, it'd be a lot more work to merge it to core. I didn't""" start="00:07:24.300" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""hear the beginning. Nevermind. I think I understood. You""" start="00:07:30.306" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""made your point well. Okay. All right, moving on to the""" start="00:07:34.110" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""second question. When thinking about using Emacs on""" start="00:07:37.697" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Android, I started realizing all the other software I also""" start="00:07:40.499" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""want on it. For example, PDF Tools wants a small additional""" start="00:07:40.499" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Emacs-specific program to be installed on, and NotMuch""" start="00:07:46.582" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""obviously wants NotMuch. Any way to get the goodness of""" start="00:07:46.582" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Emacs for Android with this other stuff, using either NixOX""" start="00:07:53.727" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""or Gix or NixOnDroid to make an APK with extra stuff? Are you""" start="00:07:53.727" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""familiar with this topic? Absolutely not. The extent to""" start="00:08:02.572" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""which I have used Emacs on Android was entirely""" start="00:08:06.593" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""demonstrated in this video, I think. In my previous video. I""" start="00:08:06.593" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""mean, I know it does a few scrolling stuff, but I have no idea""" start="00:08:19.434" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""how external stuff, because I mean, Android is, it's a Unix""" start="00:08:19.434" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""or it's a Linux based system, but it's really heavily""" start="00:08:19.434" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""modified to the preferences of Google, which includes not""" start="00:08:19.434" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""being able to have your own software on it. Yeah,""" start="00:08:19.434" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""definitely. All right, moving on to the next question. Does""" start="00:08:37.981" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""PackageVC... Oh, no, that's fine. I mean, you can't answer""" start="00:08:41.853" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""all the questions. I mean, it wouldn't be fun for me""" start="00:08:44.973" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""otherwise. Does PackageVC download a tarball from the""" start="00:08:46.554" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""specified Git repository or clone the repository itself?""" start="00:08:49.515" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""It clones the repository. That's the VC part in the name.""" start="00:08:55.256" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""PackageVC uses VC, the ctrl-xv stuff. In Emacs 29, there's a""" start="00:08:59.257" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""new command called vcclone, which in Emacs 31, it was""" start="00:09:06.378" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""actually exposed as an interactive command. And when you""" start="00:09:06.378" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""clone the repository, or when you, you can give it any URL of a""" start="00:09:14.444" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Git repository or a CVS repository or subversion""" start="00:09:14.444" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""repository. Interestingly enough, most people only use""" start="00:09:14.444" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Git, but anything that's, that implements this clone""" start="00:09:25.233" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""command for vc, and it could download it. So there's no""" start="00:09:25.233" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""tarballs involved. Which is also, one should emphasize,""" start="00:09:34.420" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""part of the difficulty of EC packages because when you have""" start="00:09:36.468" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""version control and you want to upgrade it, it might be that""" start="00:09:36.468" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""the upstream did a force push. For that, you make local""" start="00:09:36.468" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""changes and then you have to merge them upstream with the""" start="00:09:46.642" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""upstream changes when fetching stuff. It's one of the big""" start="00:09:46.642" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""downsides of version-controlled stuff, and I'm saying""" start="00:09:54.130" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""this as the guy who actually wrote package-vc. There's""" start="00:09:54.130" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""times to use it, there's advantages to it, but that's""" start="00:09:59.835" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""something you should keep in mind, why tarballs are""" start="00:09:59.835" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""interesting to have, in my opinion. Okay. How is the new""" start="00:09:59.835" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""behavior of metaqueue in prog mode, progfail, reindent,""" start="00:10:12.252" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""defun, or something like that, different from the behavior""" start="00:10:12.252" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""of control metaqueue, i.e. indent ppsex in older Emacs""" start="00:10:12.252" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""version? My apologies if indent ppsex, it's really tough to""" start="00:10:20.394" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""read emmetax commands out loud. It's not bound to control""" start="00:10:23.094" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""metaqueue by default, I can't tell. Let me try that command""" start="00:10:27.895" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""out because I've never tried it, never used it before.""" start="00:10:32.556" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""You know, that isn't bound by default. I bind that up myself""" start="00:10:39.061" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""and I have that binding. I think that's, that's not right. It""" start="00:10:41.022" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""says so. I mean, I'm currently executing it here in Emacs and""" start="00:10:45.285" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""it says you can also run the commands indent pp sx, sx with""" start="00:10:45.906" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""metacue, control metacue. Apparently it is. I mean, I""" start="00:10:45.906" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""didn't set it myself. I don't know what's up with that. to try""" start="00:10:58.716" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""and move it. And then each line started with points or pretty""" start="00:11:05.646" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""printed. I mean, the difference, the main difference""" start="00:11:06.406" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""between that and the command highlighted, what's the name""" start="00:11:09.308" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""again? I forget it all the time. The progmode command.""" start="00:11:09.308" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Progmode fill re-indent is that""" start="00:11:20.134" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""it checks if it's in a string or not. If it's in a string or if""" start="00:11:20.134" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""it's in a comma, then it will refill. Otherwise, it's going""" start="00:11:28.599" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""to re-indent.""" start="00:11:31.381" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""That's, I think, as far as I see, that's going to be the main""" start="00:11:35.916" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""difference. If we have some long comments somewhere. Let's""" start="00:11:35.916" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""try that out. Yeah, that's the difference. I just, you can't""" start="00:11:43.743" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""see it, but I did try it. Okay, good. Thank you. You did a""" start="00:11:47.267" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""wonderful job describing visually what you're doing. All""" start="00:11:52.372" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""right, moving on to the next question, and we have about, we""" start="00:11:57.458" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""have just enough time to cover the last three questions,""" start="00:11:57.458" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""especially because the next one, I can pretty much surmise""" start="00:11:57.458" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""the answer. Any plans for Emacs running on iOS? Probably not""" start="00:11:57.458" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""because it's not, I mean, as I emphasized in the video, the""" start="00:12:09.727" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Emacs port in Android is completely free. And to my""" start="00:12:09.727" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""knowledge, that's not something that's currently""" start="00:12:16.332" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""possible with iOS. You need Xcode or something like that to""" start="00:12:16.332" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""build iOS stuff. So that's a big no-no. I mean, maybe Apple's""" start="00:12:20.375" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""going to change their mind on that one. Well, I won't be the""" start="00:12:28.870" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""one liaising with Apple to make sure that they do, but PR""" start="00:12:32.632" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""welcomes, I guess, or motivated folks welcome. Second to""" start="00:12:32.632" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""last question. I am worried about the situation on non-free""" start="00:12:41.996" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""systems. There was talk about the Windows and the macOS""" start="00:12:43.277" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""versions being as good as unmaintained. Where do we go from""" start="00:12:46.058" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""here? I gather that most users of Emacs are still on non-free""" start="00:12:49.879" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""platforms and will remain to be there. I don't know about the""" start="00:12:51.140" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""last point, if that's true, because there's no statistics""" start="00:12:57.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""on that matter. But the main, I mean, someone has to, I know""" start="00:12:57.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that Corbyn is involved with the Mac, with the Windows""" start="00:13:03.162" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""stuff. Modestly. Sure, I'd love to jump in, but I'm far more""" start="00:13:03.162" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""interested in your thoughts than mine. Please, please""" start="00:13:14.067" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""continue. Someone has to do the work. Eli uses, as far as I""" start="00:13:18.368" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""know, Eli's on the Windows XP system. So as long as he's doing""" start="00:13:25.327" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that, there's going to be Windows support for one form or""" start="00:13:31.552" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""another, or at least DOS. All right. And now you put a quarter""" start="00:13:31.552" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""in me, so I'll jump right back in. That's perfect for where I""" start="00:13:40.601" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""guess I would take the question. To me, it's an""" start="00:13:44.065" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""accessibility issue. Think about it this way. Maybe that""" start="00:13:47.428" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Windows XP system is what someone can afford. Likewise,""" start="00:13:50.150" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""from a freedom versus I have to do my job and I have to use""" start="00:13:55.896" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""certain technology to do my job. Maybe Emacs is what""" start="00:13:55.896" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""somebody can afford right? It might be the only free tool""" start="00:14:05.425" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that they use and they don't have a lot of choice about the""" start="00:14:07.306" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""operating system that they're in most of the day. In fact,""" start="00:14:07.306" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""somebody could be in the situation where their computing""" start="00:14:13.270" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""device at work is really their internet access, right? All""" start="00:14:13.270" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""of those situations are possible. Therefore, I tend to""" start="00:14:19.134" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""assume they all exist and when I ask, you know, how much It""" start="00:14:20.675" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""definitely is concerning when we hear about kind of black""" start="00:14:27.379" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""holes in the brain trust of something like support for the""" start="00:14:27.379" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Windows port. I feel like I've heard a lot of people""" start="00:14:27.379" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""answering that call, but the importance of that is that it""" start="00:14:38.361" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""doesn't stop echoing, right? Free software goes as long as""" start="00:14:38.361" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""there are people that are irritated enough about something""" start="00:14:45.782" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""to sort of come hack on it. Yeah. And the same applies to Mac""" start="00:14:45.782" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""OS. But I don't know any concrete details about who's""" start="00:14:53.284" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""currently working on it. I can't recollect any details on""" start="00:14:56.462" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""who's currently working on what.""" start="00:14:59.864" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Okay. And that leaves us with the last question of the day.""" start="00:15:05.887" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""I'm a bit confused about what version of Org that I should""" start="00:15:09.529" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""write towards because there's Org in Emacs, the one that""" start="00:15:09.529" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""ships built-in. There's the one in ELPA. There's the one in""" start="00:15:09.529" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Org, probably the Org ELPA, I assume. Is there a best""" start="00:15:17.213" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""practice on what Org to use when following Emacs latest?""" start="00:15:21.336" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""when following us latest. It depends on, I think, my rough""" start="00:15:27.472" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""heuristic is if you do use Org a lot and if you follow the""" start="00:15:30.114" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""newest features, then use the version on Elpa, because the""" start="00:15:30.114" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Elpa version should be the most up-to-date one. The Org Elpa""" start="00:15:30.114" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""was deprecated, to my knowledge. If that seems true, please""" start="00:15:42.423" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""someone interrupt me before I make a fool of myself.""" start="00:15:46.906" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""No one's done that yet.""" start="00:15:54.511" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""I think a couple of years ago there were chats and then we""" start="00:15:58.207" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""deprecated the all contrib ELPA, but I think all the ELPA is""" start="00:15:58.207" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""still alive. I didn't know that about that. Okay, in that""" start="00:15:58.207" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""case, that relativizes how absolute my answer is.""" start="00:16:11.844" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Personally, I just use the version in Emacs, which is""" start="00:16:19.585" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""bundled with Emacs, which is regularly updated on master""" start="00:16:19.585" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""whenever there's a release. But that might take maybe, it""" start="00:16:19.585" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""might be a short time behind the Elpa version, or the other""" start="00:16:29.550" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Elpa, the Org Elpa, which we mentioned. But I'm a very light""" start="00:16:29.550" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Org mode user, so please don't take my word for that one. No,""" start="00:16:42.096" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""and I'm happy to come to you. Yeah. I""" start="00:16:49.420" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""feel like we lost Leo again. OK. Well, that's all right. I""" start="00:16:52.963" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""wanted a bite at that, Apple. I'm a little bit. Yeah, I also""" start="00:17:00.750" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""describe myself as a light org user, but somehow your""" start="00:17:03.973" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""comment made me think, well, maybe I do use it just a little""" start="00:17:03.973" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""bit more than you, Philip.""" start="00:17:03.973" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""From my standpoint, I'm using it as a technical basis for""" start="00:17:15.359" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""dungeon mode in order to keep the game notes for the games""" start="00:17:15.359" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that are made using this game engine I'm making that I talked""" start="00:17:15.359" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""about a few years ago. As soon as you said technical grounds,""" start="00:17:15.359" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""you definitely use it more. Right, right. So I've studied""" start="00:17:27.084" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""its internals a bit, and I have my own thoughts about this or""" start="00:17:31.946" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that. But of course, I'm rolling with the punches because""" start="00:17:31.946" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""I'm just grateful that the bear dances. What an amazing""" start="00:17:36.548" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""thing is Orc Mode. But Leo knows far more than me,""" start="00:17:42.851" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""conveniently having his stage right here, so he can't""" start="00:17:46.073" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""defend himself from this. But I've had thoughts around this""" start="00:17:46.073" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""space. Are you back, Leo? Yeah, sorry, I'm back. You save us""" start="00:17:52.219" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""all. Maybe closing remarks. I was trying to clear my throat""" start="00:18:01.585" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""to be very inconspicuous about me coming back, but""" start="00:18:05.446" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""apparently I was ousted. Yeah, I was trying to answer the""" start="00:18:05.446" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""question and I was trying to desperately save you from""" start="00:18:11.827" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""answering, Philip, because yes, the thing about Org Mode is""" start="00:18:11.827" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""that if you are the kind of people who tend to check out master""" start="00:18:11.827" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""on Org Mode, generally it's roughly pretty stable. Like""" start="00:18:11.827" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""when we were working with Org Element and stuff like this,""" start="00:18:25.090" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Perhaps there were some elements of stability which""" start="00:18:27.970" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""weren't there quite yet, but usually now it's pretty""" start="00:18:27.970" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""stable. So I think that if you are really excited about""" start="00:18:27.970" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""contributing to Org Mode and stuff like this, I think there""" start="00:18:33.054" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""isn't all that many risks to just checking out Org Mode""" start="00:18:33.054" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Master, so cloning the repository and just keeping up to""" start="00:18:33.054" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""date. Otherwise, ELPA is a fairly safe bet if you want to have""" start="00:18:33.054" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""the latest stable version. And we've got a question about""" start="00:18:45.245" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""DLM. as with Emacs itself. You can follow whatever is""" start="00:18:51.130" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""published in your package archives or in your system""" start="00:18:55.433" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""distribution package manager. You can build it yourself if""" start="00:18:55.433" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""you want to contribute and fix bugs, add features, and so on.""" start="00:19:04.836" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Yeah, and I don't think perhaps a little more with Emacs,""" start="00:19:11.041" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""because the features that tends to get introduced in Emacs""" start="00:19:11.041" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""are slightly more wild. Not wild in the sense that they are""" start="00:19:11.041" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""less stable, but wild in the sense that they tend to change a""" start="00:19:19.406" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""lot more stuff. The core of Org, at least during Bastion's""" start="00:19:19.406" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""maintenance ship, was very stable when you think about it.""" start="00:19:24.910" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""So things might change with Yor right now in terms of how he""" start="00:19:30.414" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""wants to change some of the core behaviors, but it's usually""" start="00:19:30.414" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""pretty stable. And whether you use the latest major""" start="00:19:30.414" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""version, the latest minor version, things are probably""" start="00:19:37.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""going to be pretty stable. It's like you heard me while you""" start="00:19:37.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""were offline. And I do agree with that, in case you might have""" start="00:19:43.985" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""heard both our remarks and think we're talking different""" start="00:19:46.427" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""angles. Actually, I think we would tend to agree on this, Leo""" start="00:19:46.427" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""and I. For the record, when I'm saying, oh, I have to go keep up""" start="00:19:52.553" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""with org, that's because org grows behaviors that I've got""" start="00:19:57.237" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""my own. I had to figure out at some point my own way to do it, and""" start="00:19:57.237" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""now I'm learning how it's done, right? So I'm like, in my""" start="00:20:05.284" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""abstraction, blah, right? And those conversations""" start="00:20:09.628" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""usually end at, and somebody else took the time to figure out""" start="00:20:13.551" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""how to actually make Emacs do that. Go be quiet. And I do, and I""" start="00:20:13.551" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""do consider that under Bastian's tenure, it has been quite""" start="00:20:20.197" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""stable. We might notice the occasional like, oh, this""" start="00:20:20.197" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""highlights now and that didn't, right? But very often, very""" start="00:20:28.068" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""infrequently is it breaking my workflow as a user, any of it.""" start="00:20:32.634" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""It's interesting to me that this mirrors my experience with""" start="00:20:38.081" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Emacs itself, where I think, in my perception, Emacs master""" start="00:20:38.081" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""is very stable and I might notice the slight changes between""" start="00:20:38.081" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""git pulls. But otherwise, in my experience, org mode""" start="00:20:38.081" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""suddenly changes something. I don't know what changed or""" start="00:20:51.830" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""what's going on or uh what caused it and it seemed and i i""" start="00:20:56.433" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""perceive it as being a sudden uncontrolled change or""" start="00:21:00.050" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""something and i think that's that's apt right that gets""" start="00:21:00.050" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""right at it if if we're following if we're pulling for more""" start="00:21:00.050" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""pretty regularly crime job every night or pulling a few""" start="00:21:00.050" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""times a day or something like that we're going to the""" start="00:21:00.050" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""internals yeah, we'll have a different experience than,""" start="00:21:00.050" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""you know, if we only remember to update org once every four""" start="00:21:19.930" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""months, it really pays to stick with everything. And""" start="00:21:19.930" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""suddenly lots of things might change. Whatever broken my""" start="00:21:28.372" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""own config, right? And so a lot of, like a lot of things within""" start="00:21:30.933" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Emacs, but also within the free software tool chain, it's""" start="00:21:33.894" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""how much you're going to invent in the config, invest in the""" start="00:21:33.894" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""config, might limit you know, and maintaining your config""" start="00:21:33.894" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""may limit the depth of how far it makes sense for you to go with""" start="00:21:45.817" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""the tool at any given point in time. Actually just looked up""" start="00:21:45.817" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""my org config and it's four, I said four options, user""" start="00:21:54.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""options. So that's, if that's the measurements of org""" start="00:21:54.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""expertise, that's my level, it's four.""" start="00:22:00.202" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""That's all good then. Four of four, I'm assuming that is,""" start="00:22:08.725" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""right? Four of what? What was the metric there, four of like a""" start="00:22:10.065" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""thousand? Four out of the number of user options that Word""" start="00:22:15.036" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""provides. Oh, okay, I see. Four, yeah, more like 10,000. I'm""" start="00:22:18.357" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""there. Yeah. All right. On that note, I suggest we move to""" start="00:22:27.801" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""what's close because it's fairly late for me and I need to""" start="00:22:30.722" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""sleep. And Philip, I think it's pretty late for you as well,""" start="00:22:30.722" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""isn't it? I'm in Germany, so it's about... So it is pretty""" start="00:22:34.824" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""late. It's the same time zone as me. It's 11 p.m. for you.""" start="00:22:38.005" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Truly, yeah. Yeah, so I suggest we both take the chance to go""" start="00:22:44.452" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""to bed as soon as we can. But Philippe, thank you so much for""" start="00:22:46.175" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""both the presentation and also the answers that you""" start="00:22:51.837" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""provided to us and the nice little chat we had at the end. We""" start="00:22:51.837" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""look forward to seeing you again next year, perhaps for""" start="00:23:00.221" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Emacs 31. I'm not sure. I was chatting with Wassim Massa""" start="00:23:00.221" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""trying to make prognostics about when Emacs 30 is going to be""" start="00:23:05.203" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""released. There's a pre-release coming soon. I should have""" start="00:23:05.203" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""mentioned that earlier. Well, there you go. Gone.""" start="00:23:13.986" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""All right. Well, thank you so much, Philip. We'll be moving""" start="00:23:22.938" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""towards close. Give us about two minutes to get set up in the""" start="00:23:24.779" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""other room. And Philip, we'll see you next time. Goodbye.""" start="00:23:25.920" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] -[[!template text="""Bye-bye. Thank you.""" start="00:23:32.603" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You sound great. And on the stream, my eyeball says it looks""" start="00:00:00.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""great with Leo doing the streaming. So I say let's dive right""" start="00:00:05.080" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in. You got a long, huge line. And in order to be a little more""" start="00:00:08.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""dialectical, I'll be reading the questions. So first""" start="00:00:12.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""question, which key was a third party package for a long""" start="00:00:16.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""time? Is there work to bring any other popular packages into""" start="00:00:18.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the core of Emacs for Emacs 31 plus, like Magit or Counsel?""" start="00:00:21.880" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Uh, right. I already answered that one on the, as you can see,""" start="00:00:25.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""uh, right. Yeah. Do you want to quickly read the answer so""" start="00:00:30.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that everyone, I just can read it out again. Um, as far as I""" start="00:00:34.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""remember, the one package that was being discussed just""" start="00:00:38.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""around the time that the Emacs 30 branch was cut was macro""" start="00:00:41.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""step. That's the package that was like, does an overlay, uh,""" start="00:00:44.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""replaces a macro with the macro expansion using overlays.""" start="00:00:47.600" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So you don't have to pop up another buffer, modified,""" start="00:00:51.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""modified current buffer. But we didn't manage to address""" start="00:00:53.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all the concerns in time for the Emacs 30 cuts and I believe""" start="00:00:57.600" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it's sort of stagnated around that but it might be picked up""" start="00:01:00.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""anytime someone mentions it on Emacs Devil again. Another""" start="00:01:03.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""package question mentioned was Magit. That's a constant""" start="00:01:07.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""discussion regarding Magit. And actually, from the top of""" start="00:01:11.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""my head, I can't recall if Magit is on NonGNU ELPA or GNU ELPA""" start="00:01:14.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right now. It's still on NonGNU ELPA.""" start="00:01:19.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""For those who don't know, only packages which are in ELPA are""" start="00:01:23.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""considered for addition, considered to be added to the""" start="00:01:29.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs core, to be bundled along with Emacs. And then there's""" start="00:01:33.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""another totally parallel discussion about having a sort of""" start="00:01:36.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""fat Emacs distribution, I call it fat Emacs distribution,""" start="00:01:40.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""where Emacs comes with a lot of ELPA packages or the""" start="00:01:43.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""pre-installed by default. Part of Emacs itself. Yeah.""" start="00:01:48.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Darna, maybe I could jump in with an active listening style,""" start="00:01:55.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, kind of follow up question almost. You know, I""" start="00:01:59.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""understand the kind of different repositories. We have""" start="00:02:03.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""things that aren't maintained by GNU at all, you know, most""" start="00:02:07.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""notably MELPA. And then we have kind of NonGNU ELPA, which""" start="00:02:13.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is sort of an entryway project where it's not necessarily""" start="00:02:17.920" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""curated, but there'll be some advice given, which you can""" start="00:02:21.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""take or leave. And that's the repository where anything""" start="00:02:24.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that was the newer repository that represents, you know,""" start="00:02:28.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""help, you know, help, help supplied from GNU. And then""" start="00:02:32.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there's the, actually the GNU, the GNU ELPA, what most of us""" start="00:02:36.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are used to calling just ELPA. And that's what you're""" start="00:02:41.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""talking about there when you say,""" start="00:02:46.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean all packages on ELPA are officially considered to be""" start="00:02:50.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""part of Emacs, they're licensed under the same conditions""" start="00:02:53.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""as Emacs itself, same license, same everything. And""" start="00:02:56.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""they're more likely to be, to drop, to kind of be dropping""" start="00:03:00.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""patched. Oh yeah, it's time for this to move to core. Is that""" start="00:03:03.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? They have the legal conditions for that to be done.""" start="00:03:07.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Everything's necessary from a paperwork standpoint. I""" start="00:03:12.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""mean, but other than that, there's not really a big""" start="00:03:15.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""difference between GNU ELPA and NonGNU ELPA. It's""" start="00:03:17.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""really just the main thing is this copyrights notice. So if""" start="00:03:21.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you want to add a package to ELPA, to GNU ELPA, then all""" start="00:03:23.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""significance contributors have to have signed the FSF""" start="00:03:28.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""copyright assignment and the package script, actually the""" start="00:03:32.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""ELPA build script, checks if the copyright lines are all""" start="00:03:36.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""attributed to the Free Software Foundation.""" start="00:03:41.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But that's not going to attach, right? So because that's not""" start="00:03:43.880" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in place, it'd be a lot more work to merge it to core. I didn't""" start="00:03:52.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""hear the beginning. Nevermind. I think I understood. You""" start="00:03:57.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""made your point well. Okay. All right, moving on to the""" start="00:04:01.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""second question. When thinking about using Emacs on""" start="00:04:05.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Android, I started realizing all the other software I also""" start="00:04:08.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""want on it. For example, PDF Tools wants a small additional""" start="00:04:11.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs-specific program to be installed on, and notmuch""" start="00:04:15.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""obviously wants notmuch. Any way to get the goodness of""" start="00:04:18.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs for Android with this other stuff, using either Nix OS""" start="00:04:21.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""or Guix or NixOnDroid to make an APK with extra stuff? Are you""" start="00:04:25.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""familiar with this topic? Absolutely not. The extent to""" start="00:04:29.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""which I have used Emacs on Android was entirely""" start="00:04:34.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""demonstrated in this video, I think. In my previous video. I""" start="00:04:39.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""mean, I know it does a few scrolling stuff, but I have no idea""" start="00:04:43.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""how external stuff, because I mean, Android is, it's a Unix""" start="00:04:48.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""or it's a Linux based system, but it's really heavily""" start="00:04:52.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""modified to the preferences of Google, which includes not""" start="00:04:55.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""being able to have your own software on it. Yeah,""" start="00:05:01.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""definitely. All right, moving on to the next question. Does""" start="00:05:04.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""PackageVC... Oh, no, that's fine. I mean, you can't answer""" start="00:05:08.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all the questions. I mean, it wouldn't be fun for me""" start="00:05:12.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""otherwise. Does package-vc download a tarball from the""" start="00:05:15.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""specified Git repository or clone the repository itself?""" start="00:05:17.920" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It clones the repository. That's the VC part in the name.""" start="00:05:21.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""package-vc uses VC, the C-x v stuff. In Emacs 29, there's a""" start="00:05:25.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""new command called vc-clone, which in Emacs 31, it was""" start="00:05:33.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""actually exposed as an interactive command. And when you""" start="00:05:37.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""clone the repository, or when you, you can give it any URL of a""" start="00:05:42.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Git repository or a CVS repository or subversion""" start="00:05:47.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""repository. Interestingly enough, most people only use""" start="00:05:50.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Git, but anything that's, that implements this clone""" start="00:05:53.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""command for VC, and it could download it. So there's no""" start="00:05:57.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""tarballs involved. Which is also, one should emphasize,""" start="00:06:01.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""part of the difficulty of VC packages because when you have""" start="00:06:05.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""version control and you want to upgrade it, it might be that""" start="00:06:07.880" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the upstream did a force push. For that, you make local""" start="00:06:10.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""changes and then you have to merge them upstream with the""" start="00:06:14.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""upstream changes when fetching stuff. It's one of the big""" start="00:06:17.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""downsides of version-controlled stuff, and I'm saying""" start="00:06:21.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this as the guy who actually wrote package-vc. There's""" start="00:06:23.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""times to use it, there's advantages to it, but that's""" start="00:06:27.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something you should keep in mind, why tarballs are""" start="00:06:29.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""interesting to have, in my opinion. Okay. How is the new""" start="00:06:32.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""behavior of metaqueue in prog mode, progfail, reindent,""" start="00:06:39.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""defun, or something like that, different from the behavior""" start="00:06:42.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of C-M-q, i.e. indent-pp-sexp in older Emacs""" start="00:06:45.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""version? My apologies if indent-pp-sexp, it's really tough to""" start="00:06:48.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""read M-x commands out loud. It's not bound to""" start="00:06:52.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""C-M-q by default, I can't tell. Let me try that command""" start="00:06:55.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""out because I've never tried it, never used it before.""" start="00:07:01.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You know, that isn't bound by default. I bind that up myself""" start="00:07:05.600" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and I have that binding. I think that's, that's not right. It""" start="00:07:09.080" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""says so. I mean, I'm currently executing it here in Emacs and""" start="00:07:11.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it says you can also run the commands indent-pp-sexp with""" start="00:07:15.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""M-q, C-M-q. Apparently it is. I mean, I""" start="00:07:20.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""didn't set it myself. I don't know what's up with that. to try""" start="00:07:26.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and move it. And then each line started with points or pretty""" start="00:07:31.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""printed. I mean, the difference, the main difference""" start="00:07:35.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""between that and the command highlighted, what's the name""" start="00:07:37.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""again? I forget it all the time. The prog-mode command.""" start="00:07:41.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""prog-fill-reindent-defun is that""" start="00:07:47.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it checks if it's in a string or not. If it's in a string or if""" start="00:07:50.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it's in a comma, then it will refill. Otherwise, it's going""" start="00:07:56.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to re-indent.""" start="00:07:58.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's, I think, as far as I see, that's going to be the main""" start="00:07:59.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""difference. If we have some long comments somewhere. Let's""" start="00:08:05.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""try that out. Yeah, that's the difference. I just, you can't""" start="00:08:09.600" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""see it, but I did try it. Okay, good. Thank you. You did a""" start="00:08:15.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""wonderful job describing visually what you're doing. All""" start="00:08:19.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right, moving on to the next question, and we have about, we""" start="00:08:22.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have just enough time to cover the last three questions,""" start="00:08:26.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""especially because the next one, I can pretty much surmise""" start="00:08:28.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the answer. Any plans for Emacs running on iOS? Probably not""" start="00:08:32.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because it's not, I mean, as I emphasized in the video, the""" start="00:08:36.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs port in Android is completely free. And to my""" start="00:08:40.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""knowledge, that's not something that's currently""" start="00:08:43.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""possible with iOS. You need Xcode or something like that to""" start="00:08:45.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""build iOS stuff. So that's a big no-no. I mean, maybe Apple's""" start="00:08:49.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""going to change their mind on that one. Well, I won't be the""" start="00:08:56.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""one liaising with Apple to make sure that they do, but PR""" start="00:09:00.920" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""welcomes, I guess, or motivated folks welcome. Second to""" start="00:09:04.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""last question. I am worried about the situation on non-free""" start="00:09:07.600" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""systems. There was talk about the Windows and the macOS""" start="00:09:11.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""versions being as good as unmaintained. Where do we go from""" start="00:09:14.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""here? I gather that most users of Emacs are still on non-free""" start="00:09:17.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""platforms and will remain to be there. I don't know about the""" start="00:09:20.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""last point, if that's true, because there's no statistics""" start="00:09:24.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on that matter. But the main, I mean, someone has to, I know""" start="00:09:28.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that Corwin is involved with the Mac, with the Windows""" start="00:09:35.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""stuff. Modestly. Sure, I'd love to jump in, but I'm far more""" start="00:09:37.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""interested in your thoughts than mine. Please, please""" start="00:09:43.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""continue. Someone has to do the work. Eli uses, as far as I""" start="00:09:45.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""know, Eli's on the Windows XP system. So as long as he's doing""" start="00:09:51.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that, there's going to be Windows support for one form or""" start="00:09:58.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""another, or at least DOS. All right. And now you put a quarter""" start="00:10:02.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in me, so I'll jump right back in. That's perfect for where I""" start="00:10:07.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""guess I would take the question. To me, it's an""" start="00:10:12.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""accessibility issue. Think about it this way. Maybe that""" start="00:10:14.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Windows XP system is what someone can afford. Likewise,""" start="00:10:17.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""from a freedom versus I have to do my job and I have to use""" start="00:10:23.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""certain technology to do my job. Maybe Emacs is what""" start="00:10:27.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""somebody can afford right? It might be the only free tool""" start="00:10:31.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that they use and they don't have a lot of choice about the""" start="00:10:35.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""operating system that they're in most of the day. In fact,""" start="00:10:37.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""somebody could be in the situation where their computing""" start="00:10:40.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""device at work is really their internet access, right? All""" start="00:10:42.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of those situations are possible. Therefore, I tend to""" start="00:10:45.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""assume they all exist and when I ask, you know, how much It""" start="00:10:48.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""definitely is concerning when we hear about kind of black""" start="00:10:53.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""holes in the brain trust of something like support for the""" start="00:10:58.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Windows port. I feel like I've heard a lot of people""" start="00:11:02.080" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""answering that call, but the importance of that is that it""" start="00:11:06.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""doesn't stop echoing, right? Free software goes as long as""" start="00:11:10.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there are people that are irritated enough about something""" start="00:11:14.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to sort of come hack on it. Yeah. And the same applies to Mac""" start="00:11:16.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""OS. But I don't know any concrete details about who's""" start="00:11:20.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""currently working on it. I can't recollect any details on""" start="00:11:25.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""who's currently working on what.""" start="00:11:28.080" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Okay. And that leaves us with the last question of the day.""" start="00:11:29.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm a bit confused about what version of Org that I should""" start="00:11:35.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""write towards because there's Org in Emacs, the one that""" start="00:11:38.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""ships built-in. There's the one in ELPA. There's the one in""" start="00:11:40.920" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Org, probably the Org ELPA, I assume. Is there a best""" start="00:11:44.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""practice on what Org to use when following Emacs latest?""" start="00:11:48.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""when following us latest. It depends on, I think, my rough""" start="00:11:51.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""heuristic is if you do use Org a lot and if you follow the""" start="00:11:58.920" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""newest features, then use the version on Elpa, because the""" start="00:12:02.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Elpa version should be the most up-to-date one. The Org Elpa""" start="00:12:06.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""was deprecated, to my knowledge. If that seems true, please""" start="00:12:09.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""someone interrupt me before I make a fool of myself.""" start="00:12:15.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""No one's done that yet.""" start="00:12:18.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think a couple of years ago there were chats and then we""" start="00:12:24.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""deprecated the all contrib ELPA, but I think all the ELPA is""" start="00:12:29.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""still alive. I didn't know that about that. Okay, in that""" start="00:12:34.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""case, that relativizes how absolute my answer is.""" start="00:12:40.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Personally, I just use the version in Emacs, which is""" start="00:12:44.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bundled with Emacs, which is regularly updated on master""" start="00:12:49.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""whenever there's a release. But that might take maybe, it""" start="00:12:53.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""might be a short time behind the ELPA version, or the other""" start="00:12:58.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""ELPA, the Org ELPA, which we mentioned. But I'm a very light""" start="00:13:03.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Org mode user, so please don't take my word for that one. No,""" start="00:13:11.880" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and I'm happy to come to you. Yeah. I""" start="00:13:16.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""feel like we lost Leo again. OK. Well, that's all right. I""" start="00:13:23.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""wanted a bite at that, Apple. I'm a little bit. Yeah, I also""" start="00:13:27.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""describe myself as a light org user, but somehow your""" start="00:13:31.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""comment made me think, well, maybe I do use it just a little""" start="00:13:34.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bit more than you, Philip.""" start="00:13:37.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""From my standpoint, I'm using it as a technical basis for""" start="00:13:41.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""dungeon mode in order to keep the game notes for the games""" start="00:13:45.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that are made using this game engine I'm making that I talked""" start="00:13:49.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about a few years ago. As soon as you said technical grounds,""" start="00:13:52.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you definitely use it more. Right, right. So I've studied""" start="00:13:56.080" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""its internals a bit, and I have my own thoughts about this or""" start="00:13:59.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that. But of course, I'm rolling with the punches because""" start="00:14:04.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm just grateful that the bear dances. What an amazing""" start="00:14:06.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""thing is Org Mode. But Leo knows far more than me,""" start="00:14:10.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""conveniently having his stage right here, so he can't""" start="00:14:14.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""defend himself from this. But I've had thoughts around this""" start="00:14:18.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""space. Are you back, Leo? Yeah, sorry, I'm back. You save us""" start="00:14:22.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all. Maybe closing remarks. I was trying to clear my throat""" start="00:14:28.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to be very inconspicuous about me coming back, but""" start="00:14:33.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""apparently I was ousted. Yeah, I was trying to answer the""" start="00:14:36.080" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""question and I was trying to desperately save you from""" start="00:14:39.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""answering, Philip, because yes, the thing about Org Mode is""" start="00:14:42.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that if you are the kind of people who tend to check out master""" start="00:14:46.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on Org Mode, generally it's roughly pretty stable. Like""" start="00:14:48.880" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""when we were working with Org Element and stuff like this,""" start="00:14:51.920" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Perhaps there were some elements of stability which""" start="00:14:54.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""weren't there quite yet, but usually now it's pretty""" start="00:14:56.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""stable. So I think that if you are really excited about""" start="00:14:59.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""contributing to Org Mode and stuff like this, I think there""" start="00:15:02.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""isn't all that many risks to just checking out Org Mode""" start="00:15:04.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Master, so cloning the repository and just keeping up to""" start="00:15:08.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""date. Otherwise, ELPA is a fairly safe bet if you want to have""" start="00:15:11.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the latest stable version. And we've got a question about""" start="00:15:15.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""DLM. as with Emacs itself. You can follow whatever is""" start="00:15:19.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""published in your package archives or in your system""" start="00:15:24.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""distribution package manager. You can build it yourself if""" start="00:15:28.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you want to contribute and fix bugs, add features, and so on.""" start="00:15:32.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, and I don't think perhaps a little more with Emacs,""" start="00:15:36.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because the features that tends to get introduced in Emacs""" start="00:15:40.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are slightly more wild. Not wild in the sense that they are""" start="00:15:43.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""less stable, but wild in the sense that they tend to change a""" start="00:15:48.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""lot more stuff. The core of Org, at least during Bastien's""" start="00:15:50.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maintenance ship, was very stable when you think about it.""" start="00:15:54.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So things might change with Ihor right now in terms of how he""" start="00:15:56.880" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""wants to change some of the core behaviors, but it's usually""" start="00:15:59.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""pretty stable. And whether you use the latest major""" start="00:16:02.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""version, the latest minor version, things are probably""" start="00:16:06.080" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""going to be pretty stable. It's like you heard me while you""" start="00:16:09.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""were offline. And I do agree with that, in case you might have""" start="00:16:11.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""heard both our remarks and think we're talking different""" start="00:16:16.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""angles. Actually, I think we would tend to agree on this, Leo""" start="00:16:18.320" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and I. For the record, when I'm saying, oh, I have to go keep up""" start="00:16:22.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""with org, that's because org grows behaviors that I've got""" start="00:16:26.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""my own. I had to figure out at some point my own way to do it, and""" start="00:16:30.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""now I'm learning how it's done, right? So I'm like, in my""" start="00:16:34.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""abstraction, blah, right? And those conversations""" start="00:16:38.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""usually end at, and somebody else took the time to figure out""" start="00:16:41.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""how to actually make Emacs do that. Go be quiet. And I do, and I""" start="00:16:44.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""do consider that under Bastien's tenure, it has been quite""" start="00:16:48.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""stable. We might notice the occasional like, oh, this""" start="00:16:53.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""highlights now and that didn't, right? But very often, very""" start="00:16:57.040" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""infrequently is it breaking my workflow as a user, any of it.""" start="00:17:00.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's interesting to me that this mirrors my experience with""" start="00:17:03.600" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs itself, where I think, in my perception, Emacs master""" start="00:17:07.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is very stable and I might notice the slight changes between""" start="00:17:12.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""git pulls. But otherwise, in my experience, org mode""" start="00:17:17.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""suddenly changes something. I don't know what changed or""" start="00:17:21.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""what's going on or uh what caused it and it seemed and i i""" start="00:17:24.880" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perceive it as being a sudden uncontrolled change or""" start="00:17:29.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something and i think that's that's apt right that gets""" start="00:17:33.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right at it if if we're following if we're pulling for more""" start="00:17:36.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""pretty regularly crime job every night or pulling a few""" start="00:17:40.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""times a day or something like that we're going to the""" start="00:17:42.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""internals yeah, we'll have a different experience than,""" start="00:17:44.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, if we only remember to update org once every four""" start="00:17:48.640" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""months, it really pays to stick with everything. And""" start="00:17:51.960" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""suddenly lots of things might change. Whatever broken my""" start="00:17:54.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""own config, right? And so a lot of, like a lot of things within""" start="00:17:59.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs, but also within the free software tool chain, it's""" start="00:18:03.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""how much you're going to invent in the config, invest in the""" start="00:18:06.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""config, might limit you know, and maintaining your config""" start="00:18:09.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""may limit the depth of how far it makes sense for you to go with""" start="00:18:14.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the tool at any given point in time. Actually just looked up""" start="00:18:17.200" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""my org config and it's four, I said four options, user""" start="00:18:21.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""options. So that's, if that's the measurements of org""" start="00:18:25.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""expertise, that's my level, it's four.""" start="00:18:29.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's all good then. Four of four, I'm assuming that is,""" start="00:18:32.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? Four of what? What was the metric there, four of like a""" start="00:18:38.560" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""thousand? Four out of the number of user options that Word""" start="00:18:44.280" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""provides. Oh, okay, I see. Four, yeah, more like 10,000. I'm""" start="00:18:48.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there. Yeah. All right. On that note, I suggest we move to""" start="00:18:54.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""what's close because it's fairly late for me and I need to""" start="00:18:59.080" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sleep. And Philip, I think it's pretty late for you as well,""" start="00:19:01.000" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""isn't it? I'm in Germany, so it's about... So it is pretty""" start="00:19:03.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""late. It's the same time zone as me. It's 11 p.m. for you.""" start="00:19:07.240" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Truly, yeah. Yeah, so I suggest we both take the chance to go""" start="00:19:09.800" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to bed as soon as we can. But Philip, thank you so much for""" start="00:19:16.400" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""both the presentation and also the answers that you""" start="00:19:20.360" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""provided to us and the nice little chat we had at the end. We""" start="00:19:22.760" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""look forward to seeing you again next year, perhaps for""" start="00:19:26.120" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs 31. I'm not sure. I was chatting with wasamasa""" start="00:19:29.520" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""trying to make prognostics about when Emacs 30 is going to be""" start="00:19:34.160" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""released. There's a pre-release coming soon. I should have""" start="00:19:37.680" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""mentioned that earlier. Well, there you go. Gone.""" start="00:19:40.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""All right. Well, thank you so much, Philip. We'll be moving""" start="00:19:46.720" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""towards close. Give us about two minutes to get set up in the""" start="00:19:51.840" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""other room. And Philip, we'll see you next time. Goodbye.""" start="00:19:54.480" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Bye-bye. Thank you.""" start="00:19:58.440" video="qanda-emacs30" id="subtitle"]] </div>Questions or comments? Please e-mail [emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org](mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20emacs30%3A%20Emacs%2030%20Highlights) |