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diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-doc--literate-documentation-with-emacs-and-org-mode--mike-hamrick--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-doc--literate-documentation-with-emacs-and-org-mode--mike-hamrick--answers.vtt
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@@ -0,0 +1,593 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:03.639 --> 00:00:04.019
+[Speaker 0]: Well, we have about, I think,
+
+00:00:06.339 --> 00:00:06.839
+10 or 15 minutes of on-stream Q&A time.
+
+00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:10.559
+But if there's more questions than that,
+
+00:00:11.420 --> 00:00:11.920
+people are welcome to stay.
+
+00:00:14.200 --> 00:00:14.639
+If Mike has the time to answer some more,
+
+00:00:15.060 --> 00:00:15.560
+then Awesome.
+
+00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:21.060
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I will be around for the rest of the
+
+00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:22.940
+conference. So I am spudpnds,
+
+00:00:26.580 --> 00:00:27.080
+which is spud upside down on IRC,
+
+00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:30.140
+if you want to hit me up on IRC.
+
+00:00:30.860 --> 00:00:31.360
+Nice.
+
+00:00:42.800 --> 00:00:43.300
+[Speaker 0]: I see we already have a question on the pad,
+
+00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:46.080
+and it is, did you develop a variant of your
+
+00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:47.420
+document for CentOS?
+
+00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:53.239
+[Speaker 1]: I did not. I have not messed with any other
+
+00:00:56.120 --> 00:00:56.620
+Red Hat distributions other than Fedora.
+
+00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:00.460
+I would like to expand the document out to
+
+00:01:05.740 --> 00:01:05.860
+Windows and to Mac OS as I think a lot of
+
+00:01:07.720 --> 00:01:07.960
+people really want to build Emacs on those
+
+00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:10.340
+platforms because it's much harder to get
+
+00:01:13.080 --> 00:01:13.580
+Emacs binaries running on those platforms.
+
+00:01:15.860 --> 00:01:16.080
+Although they're around on the internet it's
+
+00:01:17.320 --> 00:01:17.440
+not as bad as it used to be,
+
+00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:19.760
+but building Emacs is very,
+
+00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:21.160
+a very fun thing to do.
+
+00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:23.260
+And I encourage everybody to do that.
+
+00:01:46.160 --> 00:01:46.440
+[Speaker 0]: Right. We're also getting comments from folks
+
+00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:47.300
+here on BigBlueButton.
+
+00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:49.900
+EXC or Matt saying, great talk,
+
+00:01:51.140 --> 00:01:51.640
+good demonstration of what's possible.
+
+00:01:53.940 --> 00:01:54.240
+And Aaron thanking Mike,
+
+00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:55.260
+saying awesome presentation.
+
+00:01:56.880 --> 00:01:57.040
+And they missed the first few minutes and
+
+00:01:59.540 --> 00:01:59.720
+have to rewatch to get the portion that they
+
+00:01:59.720 --> 00:02:00.220
+missed.
+
+00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:03.700
+[Speaker 1]: I had a hard time cramming the entire talk
+
+00:02:08.220 --> 00:02:08.720
+into 40 minutes. So I spoke quickly.
+
+00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:10.919
+I have a feeling I may have left some folks
+
+00:02:12.540 --> 00:02:13.040
+behind who weren't paying close attention.
+
+00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:16.520
+So rewatching might help.
+
+00:02:18.920 --> 00:02:19.420
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, nice.
+
+00:02:24.920 --> 00:02:25.340
+[Speaker 1]: I noticed Matt said that he helps maintain
+
+00:02:27.440 --> 00:02:27.700
+the shell functionality or Babel and last
+
+00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:30.580
+March they added async evaluation into
+
+00:02:32.920 --> 00:02:33.340
+session code blocks. Very cool,
+
+00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:34.840
+especially when you're doing something that
+
+00:02:36.420 --> 00:02:36.820
+takes a long time. It would be nice if Emacs
+
+00:02:38.920 --> 00:02:39.060
+wasn't locked up. I will definitely have to
+
+00:02:50.220 --> 00:02:50.460
+check that out. I use this technique at work
+
+00:02:53.220 --> 00:02:53.360
+a lot, like when I write documents to how to
+
+00:02:55.900 --> 00:02:56.400
+explain things to coworkers and such.
+
+00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:00.300
+And 1 of the things I had to explain was how
+
+00:03:05.220 --> 00:03:05.720
+to build AWS MySQL databases and replicas,
+
+00:03:07.760 --> 00:03:08.260
+and how to build them with very specific
+
+00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:10.240
+parameters to work with the system called
+
+00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:13.320
+Vitesse. And when I was running that
+
+00:03:15.660 --> 00:03:16.160
+document, building these kinds of MySQL
+
+00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:20.640
+databases in AWS with lockup Emacs for 20,
+
+00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:22.800
+25 minutes at a time. So,
+
+00:03:26.060 --> 00:03:26.540
+yeah, I'm really excited about async
+
+00:03:26.540 --> 00:03:27.040
+evaluation.
+
+00:04:03.780 --> 00:04:04.020
+Totally. Oh yeah, Python mode I think has had
+
+00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:06.100
+async for shell blocks for a while.
+
+00:04:09.220 --> 00:04:09.720
+I think there's a third-party package at Elba
+
+00:04:11.260 --> 00:04:11.760
+that adds async support for that.
+
+00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:16.620
+But yeah, I explicitly wanted to make sure
+
+00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:18.959
+that it would work with super vanilla stuff.
+
+00:04:20.060 --> 00:04:20.560
+Oh, it's built in. I see.
+
+00:04:24.140 --> 00:04:24.280
+Yeah, I didn't realize it was built in for
+
+00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:26.420
+Python blocks. I'll have to check that out.
+
+00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:28.300
+There's so much Emacs.
+
+00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:32.240
+It's hard to wrap your head even around a
+
+00:04:34.900 --> 00:04:35.400
+tiny portion of it. It's such a deep topic.
+
+00:04:47.660 --> 00:04:48.160
+Looks like somebody in IRC said,
+
+00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:50.440
+I can't wait to add some of this stuff to my
+
+00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:53.180
+documents. And that really makes me happy.
+
+00:04:55.400 --> 00:04:55.640
+I hope people go out and write literate Org
+
+00:04:57.180 --> 00:04:57.680
+Mode documents that do amazing things.
+
+00:05:25.640 --> 00:05:26.040
+When's the next talk? We have like,
+
+00:05:30.900 --> 00:05:31.080
+[Speaker 0]: let's see. I think we have about 4 or 5
+
+00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:33.460
+minutes live on stream for Q&A.
+
+00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:36.360
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, okay. Oh, here's the question.
+
+00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:39.320
+Blaine asks, are you running Emacs from the
+
+00:05:41.420 --> 00:05:41.760
+host machine? And yeah,
+
+00:05:43.940 --> 00:05:44.180
+so I'm running Emacs on the exact same
+
+00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:47.060
+machine that I'm building Emacs on.
+
+00:05:50.580 --> 00:05:50.900
+And I had first thought about doing that over
+
+00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:53.720
+Tramp. And I thought that would be a very
+
+00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:55.560
+cool demo to show how you could do that
+
+00:05:57.980 --> 00:05:58.180
+remotely on Tramp so you didn't need Emacs on
+
+00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:03.280
+the host machine. But I decided it would be a
+
+00:06:05.640 --> 00:06:05.780
+lot easier, and as I ran into a deadline to
+
+00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:06.860
+get the talk completed,
+
+00:06:08.900 --> 00:06:09.140
+I abandoned that notion for the
+
+00:06:09.880 --> 00:06:10.380
+straightforward approach.
+
+00:06:13.260 --> 00:06:13.760
+But ideally, I would spin up virtual machines
+
+00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:17.140
+and then using the Org Mode document and
+
+00:06:18.960 --> 00:06:19.440
+having Org Mode reach out to those machines
+
+00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:20.940
+via SSH and Tramp.
+
+00:06:33.400 --> 00:06:33.540
+Oh yeah, there's also a little bit of
+
+00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:38.440
+discussion on IRC about org macros and how
+
+00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:40.160
+they made their way into the document.
+
+00:06:42.540 --> 00:06:42.900
+And I remember when I first discovered org
+
+00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:44.980
+macros by reading the org mode documentation,
+
+00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:47.500
+I was really excited because I thought I
+
+00:06:49.860 --> 00:06:50.040
+could limit a lot of the boilerplate I end up
+
+00:06:51.900 --> 00:06:52.360
+typing. But as we discussed,
+
+00:06:54.760 --> 00:06:55.260
+ORD macros, I think, only work in 1 context
+
+00:06:56.380 --> 00:06:56.780
+in your ORD mode document,
+
+00:06:58.280 --> 00:06:58.780
+and I think that's in the pros section.
+
+00:07:03.740 --> 00:07:04.080
+So You can't resolve a macro inside a header
+
+00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:07.100
+arg, for example, or inside an options block.
+
+00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:09.960
+It would be awesome if macros worked
+
+00:07:12.280 --> 00:07:12.780
+everywhere, but I'm happy to have them just
+
+00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:14.000
+as they are now.
+
+00:07:22.960 --> 00:07:23.460
+[Speaker 0]: Indeed, they're very convenient.
+
+00:07:32.020 --> 00:07:32.260
+[Speaker 1]: And Blaine also says, thank you for showing
+
+00:07:33.420 --> 00:07:33.920
+what's possible with literate documentation.
+
+00:07:35.380 --> 00:07:35.660
+This is mind-blowing. Yeah,
+
+00:07:39.400 --> 00:07:39.640
+I think so too. I first saw this technique in
+
+00:07:41.020 --> 00:07:41.520
+Howard's video, Literate DevOps,
+
+00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:44.900
+and I remember I was just picking up parts of
+
+00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:47.040
+my mind after it exploded after having
+
+00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:49.860
+watched that video. So I wanted to do some of
+
+00:07:51.820 --> 00:07:52.040
+it myself, and that's where I came up with a
+
+00:07:54.020 --> 00:07:54.520
+couple different approaches to that.
+
+00:07:57.600 --> 00:07:57.800
+It's not just for, you know,
+
+00:07:59.060 --> 00:07:59.560
+making literate Emacs configurations.
+
+00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:04.920
+[Speaker 0]: For Sure. We have another remark slash
+
+00:08:07.260 --> 00:08:07.580
+question on the pad. Someone saying great
+
+00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:10.300
+presentation. The preparation is outstanding.
+
+00:08:12.520 --> 00:08:13.020
+And for someone like me that never touched
+
+00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:14.540
+the org-mux side of Emacs,
+
+00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:17.200
+What do you feel is the more complex part to
+
+00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:19.540
+tackle? You made it seem simple,
+
+00:08:20.500 --> 00:08:21.000
+but the complexity there.
+
+00:08:25.840 --> 00:08:26.340
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. Just getting all of the configuration
+
+00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:31.300
+set up the way you want it is the hardest
+
+00:08:34.780 --> 00:08:35.280
+part. So some of the defaults are,
+
+00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:37.280
+you know, they don't look good when you
+
+00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:39.820
+render them out in LaTeX and finally PDF.
+
+00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:42.380
+And there's a lot of work to be done to tweak
+
+00:08:45.380 --> 00:08:45.780
+the LaTeX environment so it looks as pretty
+
+00:08:48.620 --> 00:08:48.940
+as you might want it. And then just Org Mode
+
+00:08:50.800 --> 00:08:51.300
+has a lot of knobs that you can tune,
+
+00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:54.020
+and they have a pretty large impact on how
+
+00:08:55.520 --> 00:08:56.020
+your document is exported.
+
+00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:00.680
+So I think the hardest part is just knowing
+
+00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:03.960
+what's possible and knowing where all the
+
+00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:05.700
+knobs are to tune and twist.
+
+00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:10.440
+[Speaker 0]: Got another question on the pad.
+
+00:09:12.040 --> 00:09:12.180
+And I think we have about a minute or so on
+
+00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:13.920
+the stream. So I'll read this question as
+
+00:09:15.160 --> 00:09:15.660
+well. But folks, you're welcome to continue
+
+00:09:17.560 --> 00:09:18.040
+on the pad or just come join here on BBB
+
+00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:20.320
+after myself and the stream move on to the
+
+00:09:23.100 --> 00:09:23.480
+next talk. Yeah, and the next question is,
+
+00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:24.720
+how do you normally debug,
+
+00:09:26.640 --> 00:09:27.100
+for example, view the logs or see failed
+
+00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:29.720
+statuses when the commands in the source
+
+00:09:32.020 --> 00:09:32.280
+blocks fail, especially if they output lots
+
+00:09:34.640 --> 00:09:34.780
+and lots of logs, and you need to see the
+
+00:09:35.640 --> 00:09:36.140
+full history of the build.
+
+00:09:39.520 --> 00:09:40.020
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so I see it in the messages buffer
+
+00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:42.580
+whenever I export a document.
+
+00:09:44.540 --> 00:09:44.700
+If there's a failure, that's typically where
+
+00:09:47.460 --> 00:09:47.640
+it's written to. And I will actually kill the
+
+00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:50.440
+messages buffer before I export so I know
+
+00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:53.200
+that only the messages in the buffer are for
+
+00:09:55.800 --> 00:09:55.960
+my given export and I mentioned that
+
+00:09:58.580 --> 00:09:58.780
+debugging trick where you name all of your
+
+00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:00.960
+org-mode source blocks So if there is a
+
+00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:02.820
+problem in 1 of the blocks,
+
+00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:07.060
+it'll actually tell you what the block,
+
+00:10:09.140 --> 00:10:09.640
+the name of the block the error occurred in.
+
+00:10:13.160 --> 00:10:13.360
+If you don't do that, it just gives you a
+
+00:10:14.800 --> 00:10:15.300
+position number in the buffer.
+
+00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:18.820
+And whenever I tried to convert those
+
+00:10:21.400 --> 00:10:21.540
+position numbers to actual places where the
+
+00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:23.760
+error occurred, it was never exactly where I
+
+00:10:24.640 --> 00:10:25.020
+suspected it would be.
+
+00:10:26.680 --> 00:10:27.180
+So I found that very difficult in debugging.
+
+00:10:29.800 --> 00:10:30.040
+So the only real debugging tip I have is name
+
+00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:33.120
+your source blocks, even if you don't refer
+
+00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:33.980
+to them later.
+
+00:10:39.860 --> 00:10:40.020
+[Speaker 0]: I think that's all the time we have on
+
+00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:41.520
+stream. And I also have to drop as well.
+
+00:10:42.540 --> 00:10:42.880
+But thanks again so much,
+
+00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:46.660
+Mike. And folks are welcome to come here and
+
+00:10:47.980 --> 00:10:48.480
+continue discussion here.
+
+00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:53.100
+Thanks again.
+
+00:21:45.060 --> 00:21:45.560
+[Speaker 1]: You
+
+00:22:00.060 --> 00:22:00.560
+Thank
+
+00:22:15.060 --> 00:22:15.560
+[Speaker 0]: you
+
+00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:28.900
+[Speaker 1]: for
+
+00:22:45.060 --> 00:22:45.560
+watching. You
+
+00:23:00.260 --> 00:23:00.760
+you
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ecfdd018
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsconf--emacsconforg-how-we-use-org-mode-and-tramp-to-organize-and-run-a-multitrack-conference--sacha-chua--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,8261 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:53.489 --> 00:00:53.989
+[Speaker 0]: All right. I have unmuted.
+
+00:00:59.860 --> 00:01:00.180
+It's been a while since I've actually done an
+
+00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:05.860
+actual presentation. Hi.
+
+00:01:08.979 --> 00:01:09.380
+Okay. I'm going to deafen myself and mumble
+
+00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:13.040
+so that I don't get distracted by backstage
+
+00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:16.900
+chatter. Hello, everyone! Okay,
+
+00:01:17.980 --> 00:01:18.480
+so where are we? Questions,
+
+00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:21.300
+questions, questions. Okay,
+
+00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:23.600
+how easy would it be for someone else to
+
+00:01:25.960 --> 00:01:26.120
+reuse the Emacs conf strips and config to do
+
+00:01:29.380 --> 00:01:29.640
+a conf of their own? Like everything else,
+
+00:01:32.220 --> 00:01:32.560
+I have no idea if things actually work until
+
+00:01:35.140 --> 00:01:35.600
+somebody does it for, you know,
+
+00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:37.680
+to get everything to run on a computer that
+
+00:01:40.080 --> 00:01:40.200
+isn't my computer and with assumptions that
+
+00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:41.120
+aren't my assumptions.
+
+00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:43.340
+So, I have no idea. But optimistically,
+
+00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:46.480
+I have put most of the EmacsConf things,
+
+00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:49.200
+like EmacsConf, the name of the conference
+
+00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:50.620
+and things like that in variables.
+
+00:01:53.160 --> 00:01:53.320
+So if theoretically someone were to run an
+
+00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:56.320
+org mode conference or something like that,
+
+00:01:58.440 --> 00:01:58.940
+it might be possible to reuse all this code.
+
+00:02:01.960 --> 00:02:02.080
+We'll see. I don't know if it's going to be
+
+00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:03.560
+easy. I don't even know if it's going to be
+
+00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:05.260
+possible, but it might be fun to try.
+
+00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:10.199
+What tools would I like to exist in Emacs
+
+00:02:11.720 --> 00:02:12.220
+land to help with preparing the conference
+
+00:02:15.880 --> 00:02:16.320
+next time? Well, I've already been thinking
+
+00:02:18.420 --> 00:02:18.600
+about adjustments that I want to make to
+
+00:02:21.220 --> 00:02:21.720
+sub-eds so that the audio synchronization
+
+00:02:24.340 --> 00:02:24.560
+issues that we sometimes have with FFmpeg can
+
+00:02:26.600 --> 00:02:27.040
+be something that I can flag and maybe fix
+
+00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:29.560
+even while I'm watching a video.
+
+00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:33.340
+But also as much as possible,
+
+00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:37.020
+I like to leave the actual FFMPEG audio and
+
+00:02:39.220 --> 00:02:39.440
+visual tinkering with to other people like
+
+00:02:41.320 --> 00:02:41.520
+Leo, whose patience is slightly more than
+
+00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:45.180
+mine, because audio is,
+
+00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:47.260
+I still don't have the patience to sit for
+
+00:02:48.620 --> 00:02:48.900
+it. You can tell I talk really,
+
+00:02:50.540 --> 00:02:50.860
+really quickly. I'm still trying to squeeze
+
+00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:53.160
+everything into however little focus time I
+
+00:02:56.140 --> 00:02:56.280
+actually have. So it would be kind of nice to
+
+00:03:00.820 --> 00:03:01.320
+use that. Emacs is already doing quite a ton
+
+00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:04.900
+and stuffing more multimedia processing and
+
+00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:06.300
+other fun things into it might be
+
+00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:07.260
+interesting. Who knows?
+
+00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:09.440
+Oh, the other thing that I would really love
+
+00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:12.720
+to have that people always ask for is a way
+
+00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:15.860
+from Emacs to interact with the Etherpad.
+
+00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:19.340
+The Etherpad API, it seems very granular.
+
+00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:21.180
+Like, you can set the HTML of a pad,
+
+00:03:22.920 --> 00:03:23.100
+but you can't actually just append stuff to
+
+00:03:24.640 --> 00:03:24.960
+it. And I was trying to get something that
+
+00:03:26.820 --> 00:03:26.980
+could take questions from IRC and
+
+00:03:28.480 --> 00:03:28.980
+automatically push them into the pad,
+
+00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:31.400
+even from an ERC bot or whatever,
+
+00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:34.900
+but no go. If someone were to figure out some
+
+00:03:38.860 --> 00:03:39.160
+CRDT thing where we can collaboratively edit
+
+00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:41.500
+the document, that I think is the number 1
+
+00:03:42.720 --> 00:03:43.140
+request that people always have around
+
+00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:46.760
+EmacsConf. That would be really cool to do
+
+00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:49.320
+more of the conference itself from within
+
+00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:53.740
+Emacs. I don't know if actually,
+
+00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:55.860
+well, we have an org file now that launches
+
+00:03:59.440 --> 00:03:59.940
+the MPV from Emacs. But if you want to have
+
+00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:02.300
+an ex-widget or something else watching the
+
+00:04:03.740 --> 00:04:04.240
+conference from within Emacs itself.
+
+00:04:05.640 --> 00:04:06.140
+I think that will also be really cool.
+
+00:04:09.480 --> 00:04:09.980
+Yes. And then other fun stuff.
+
+00:04:12.980 --> 00:04:13.220
+OK, how can speakers and viewers help make
+
+00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:15.540
+preparing for next year's Emacs Conf even
+
+00:04:16.300 --> 00:04:16.800
+more fun for the organizers?
+
+00:04:20.440 --> 00:04:20.899
+Well, I love it when not only do the speakers
+
+00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:24.780
+do all that work to prepare their talk,
+
+00:04:27.620 --> 00:04:28.040
+but lately people have actually even been
+
+00:04:29.780 --> 00:04:30.280
+volunteering to caption their own talks.
+
+00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:33.740
+And that's great because then they know the
+
+00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:36.500
+words that they use. And if I can show them
+
+00:04:39.140 --> 00:04:39.280
+the workflow that we have so that they can do
+
+00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:42.420
+it very efficiently, because there's all
+
+00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:44.860
+these wonderful things that I do now with
+
+00:04:48.340 --> 00:04:48.580
+Subweb Waveform and Aeneas for like the
+
+00:04:49.900 --> 00:04:50.400
+forced alignment so we can get timestamps
+
+00:04:53.100 --> 00:04:53.360
+from text and all these other fun things that
+
+00:04:55.520 --> 00:04:55.680
+make getting a transcript or editing the
+
+00:04:57.380 --> 00:04:57.880
+captions fun and easy.
+
+00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:01.000
+That makes it easier for not only speakers to
+
+00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:03.280
+contribute captions for their own talks,
+
+00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:05.720
+but also interested volunteers who,
+
+00:05:07.760 --> 00:05:07.920
+as mentioned, get early access to all the
+
+00:05:09.140 --> 00:05:09.640
+talks and can watch them at leisure.
+
+00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:12.800
+And it's, you know, nice prick there.
+
+00:05:13.700 --> 00:05:14.200
+Definitely should try that.
+
+00:05:19.400 --> 00:05:19.600
+I do have some sample videos of how we use
+
+00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:22.000
+subed. But of course, in the process of
+
+00:05:24.280 --> 00:05:24.780
+shoving like 30 or 40 talks,
+
+00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:27.100
+maybe 30 talks through it for EmacsConf,
+
+00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:29.640
+this is like the stress test season for
+
+00:05:30.340 --> 00:05:30.760
+subed, which is great,
+
+00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:32.380
+I ended up adding more features.
+
+00:05:36.260 --> 00:05:36.500
+So 1 of my big to-dos afterwards is I have to
+
+00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:38.600
+document the different workflows for things
+
+00:05:40.260 --> 00:05:40.760
+like, okay, you've got a script.
+
+00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:43.700
+You can use WDiff to get word diffs so you
+
+00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:45.760
+can take the subtitles and compare them with
+
+00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:47.720
+the original script and see where the
+
+00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:49.380
+misrecognized words are.
+
+00:05:52.960 --> 00:05:53.360
+And that's great. Or you can use SubWeb
+
+00:05:54.960 --> 00:05:55.440
+Waveform to start adjusting things.
+
+00:05:56.820 --> 00:05:57.320
+Or for example, if there's a synchronization
+
+00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:01.820
+issue, I can now middle click on a subtitle
+
+00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:04.000
+where I want the subtitle to actually start
+
+00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:06.680
+and then move all the subtitles to start at
+
+00:06:09.020 --> 00:06:09.280
+that point. So it's getting to be a really
+
+00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:11.000
+elaborate tool. And I definitely need to
+
+00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:15.520
+document that and stick all the blog post
+
+00:06:17.860 --> 00:06:18.040
+links into the readme so that people can find
+
+00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:20.740
+this in the future. So it's very,
+
+00:06:23.080 --> 00:06:23.320
+very nifty. And the reason why we do this is
+
+00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:25.220
+because, well, personally,
+
+00:06:26.820 --> 00:06:27.160
+I have a hard time sitting and watching
+
+00:06:28.940 --> 00:06:29.080
+videos. I like to be able to just jump to the
+
+00:06:31.540 --> 00:06:31.780
+interesting parts or watch it at 3 times
+
+00:06:33.400 --> 00:06:33.900
+speed, which MPV lets me do.
+
+00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:36.660
+And the text makes it a lot more searchable,
+
+00:06:38.960 --> 00:06:39.460
+which is fantastic. And also because,
+
+00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:41.480
+you know, if you've got all these interesting
+
+00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:44.720
+variable names and key bindings and whatever,
+
+00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:47.520
+and the automatic subtitles just don't do the
+
+00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:49.740
+right thing. So it's nice that people do the
+
+00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:53.480
+captioning. So, yeah, so that's 1 thing that
+
+00:06:55.080 --> 00:06:55.380
+people can help with. Captioning is always
+
+00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:57.280
+very interesting. And the other thing that
+
+00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:00.780
+people can do is take the inspiration that
+
+00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:03.340
+you get from EmacsConf and from the ideas
+
+00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:05.140
+that you have when you're working with Emacs,
+
+00:07:07.280 --> 00:07:07.780
+and suggest talks for next year's EmacsConf.
+
+00:07:09.760 --> 00:07:10.260
+And it doesn't have to be a super fancy,
+
+00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:14.060
+nobody else needs to go out and do a really
+
+00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:15.420
+professional-looking video.
+
+00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:17.640
+Even though Howard has set the bar this you
+
+00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:19.840
+know it's pretty high you don't have to do
+
+00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:22.660
+that kind of thing it can be just you in a
+
+00:07:24.860 --> 00:07:25.240
+screen or even just a screen and you talking
+
+00:07:27.340 --> 00:07:27.400
+about this cool thing that you learned and
+
+00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:29.340
+they could be a video or it could be a blog
+
+00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:31.940
+post it could be something else and that
+
+00:07:34.780 --> 00:07:35.020
+those those things are fantastic because they
+
+00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:37.200
+inspire people to see what's possible with
+
+00:07:39.440 --> 00:07:39.620
+Emacs. So that's another big thing that
+
+00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:41.300
+people can do to help.
+
+00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:44.480
+And then there's sharing the word about it.
+
+00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:46.840
+So if you saw something that you really like,
+
+00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:49.080
+if you write a blog post about it or a tweet
+
+00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:51.480
+or a toot or whatever else you want to do,
+
+00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:52.980
+you make a reaction video,
+
+00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:55.780
+that helps other people discover that stuff
+
+00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:58.080
+not just today, not just next week,
+
+00:08:00.340 --> 00:08:00.540
+but you know even later as they search for
+
+00:08:04.640 --> 00:08:05.140
+these words that as people search for ideas
+
+00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:07.760
+using words that are not necessarily the ones
+
+00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:10.560
+in the video, you describing things in other
+
+00:08:11.980 --> 00:08:12.400
+ways helps with the search engine
+
+00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:13.740
+optimization, you're not really,
+
+00:08:15.200 --> 00:08:15.700
+it's just people finding stuff,
+
+00:08:17.220 --> 00:08:17.500
+which is amazing. So yes,
+
+00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:19.500
+please write about the cool things that
+
+00:08:22.840 --> 00:08:23.040
+you've seen and what you'd like to tell other
+
+00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:26.280
+people about. Suggesting ideas for talks.
+
+00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:30.340
+Yes. Making talks. All sorts of wonderful
+
+00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:35.380
+things. OK. Could you elaborate on the
+
+00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:37.320
+workflow that goes on in your mind for when
+
+00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:38.320
+approaching these things?
+
+00:08:40.260 --> 00:08:40.460
+Do you start with an Emacs org solution right
+
+00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:42.340
+off the bat at this point when faced with a
+
+00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:44.340
+task? Are there some conscious steps involved
+
+00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:46.460
+from early ideas to automation of the kind
+
+00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:49.080
+you just showed? Mostly it starts with,
+
+00:08:50.740 --> 00:08:51.040
+okay, we got to do this thing.
+
+00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:54.220
+So I have this to-do. And sometimes,
+
+00:08:55.860 --> 00:08:56.200
+like in the week before the conference,
+
+00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:57.720
+I have to think, okay,
+
+00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:01.000
+is this a top priority thing that I can do
+
+00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:01.960
+before the conference,
+
+00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:03.980
+or is it something that I can,
+
+00:09:05.800 --> 00:09:06.160
+I, I, like we can still do the conference
+
+00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:08.360
+without doing so I have to just postpone it
+
+00:09:09.860 --> 00:09:10.360
+until afterwards? So some prioritization
+
+00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:12.280
+happens. But a lot of times it's like,
+
+00:09:13.140 --> 00:09:13.320
+okay, you know, like this,
+
+00:09:14.620 --> 00:09:14.820
+there's a thing that I need to do here.
+
+00:09:15.920 --> 00:09:16.360
+I don't know how to figure it out,
+
+00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:19.080
+let me start an org Babble block and start
+
+00:09:19.760 --> 00:09:20.240
+sketching out something,
+
+00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.620
+you know, custom function or whatever else,
+
+00:09:23.980 --> 00:09:24.200
+and then say okay, you know,
+
+00:09:25.380 --> 00:09:25.760
+hey, that looks kind of useful,
+
+00:09:27.180 --> 00:09:27.600
+let me see if I can generalize that,
+
+00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:29.640
+and then let me stick it into the library so
+
+00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:31.320
+that I can find it next year.
+
+00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:33.520
+And that's basically how it goes.
+
+00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:36.000
+It just goes, it just like,
+
+00:09:37.540 --> 00:09:38.040
+I have a thing that I need to do.
+
+00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:40.280
+If it's, if I'm going to do it more than
+
+00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:42.720
+once, or actually even if I'm going to do it,
+
+00:09:44.640 --> 00:09:44.800
+you know, once I tried to automate it just so
+
+00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.500
+that I can understand it and,
+
+00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:48.100
+and then I can, I can,
+
+00:09:50.280 --> 00:09:50.440
+I can squeeze it into like the 15 minutes I
+
+00:09:54.140 --> 00:09:54.280
+actually have and I can pause and I can pick
+
+00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:56.380
+it up again and the code is still there and
+
+00:09:57.160 --> 00:09:57.660
+my notes are still there?
+
+00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:00.760
+And then every little bit of the,
+
+00:10:03.540 --> 00:10:04.040
+every little step like that builds up.
+
+00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:06.100
+So I can write a short function today,
+
+00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:07.820
+and then tomorrow when the kid was asleep,
+
+00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:09.740
+I can write a little bit more of that.
+
+00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:11.660
+And so it just goes on from there.
+
+00:10:14.260 --> 00:10:14.760
+And then I just stuff that all in there.
+
+00:10:17.660 --> 00:10:17.900
+How well does this approach allow for other
+
+00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:20.140
+organisers to do individual customisations to
+
+00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:21.640
+their liking while still being able to
+
+00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:22.620
+collaborate effectively?
+
+00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:26.460
+We've actually split things up fairly neatly
+
+00:10:28.020 --> 00:10:28.260
+in the sense that for this year,
+
+00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:30.940
+for example, most everyone else was super
+
+00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:34.900
+busy, so I did all the heavy lifting up until
+
+00:10:37.420 --> 00:10:37.540
+people were available and then they jumped in
+
+00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:38.740
+with the audio normalization.
+
+00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:39.840
+Thank you very much, Leo,
+
+00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:41.780
+for doing all of that stuff and the hosting
+
+00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:43.340
+and all the other things.
+
+00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:46.040
+So I tend to do most of the Emacs list
+
+00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:48.360
+fiddling with and the shell scripting and
+
+00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:50.460
+stuff like that, aside from the FFmpeg
+
+00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:53.520
+incantations, which are too arcane for me to
+
+00:10:56.860 --> 00:10:57.040
+even think about. And then in the course of
+
+00:10:57.980 --> 00:10:58.180
+watching me deal with like,
+
+00:10:59.440 --> 00:10:59.640
+oh, no, this video is not playing.
+
+00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:01.280
+And then they see the commands that I'm
+
+00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:04.640
+using, like play and then,
+
+00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:06.240
+you know, play a world,
+
+00:11:08.760 --> 00:11:08.920
+which is the ideas of the talk that we were
+
+00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:10.940
+having a hard time with or MPD or whatever.
+
+00:11:13.520 --> 00:11:13.740
+Then the other organizers kind of just pick
+
+00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:15.480
+that up by osmosis, because We didn't even
+
+00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:17.360
+have time to do dry runs for training this
+
+00:11:20.540 --> 00:11:20.740
+year. So it's just there's not much
+
+00:11:22.500 --> 00:11:22.660
+collaboration in the sense that I'm just
+
+00:11:24.400 --> 00:11:24.740
+basically saying, OK, these are the scripts
+
+00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:26.260
+that I'm going to write for myself.
+
+00:11:28.980 --> 00:11:29.480
+And you all figure out how to work with that.
+
+00:11:34.780 --> 00:11:35.280
+What was the hardest problem you encountered
+
+00:11:37.040 --> 00:11:37.180
+in organizing or running the conference this
+
+00:11:38.540 --> 00:11:39.040
+year and how do you deal with it?
+
+00:11:40.680 --> 00:11:40.840
+Oh, the constant, constant problem with
+
+00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:43.820
+e-mails. There's so many amazing ideas.
+
+00:11:45.660 --> 00:11:46.160
+I want to fit into the time.
+
+00:11:46.920 --> 00:11:47.420
+And then afterwards, like,
+
+00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:49.960
+Sasha, do not mess with production the day
+
+00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:50.860
+before the conference.
+
+00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:52.680
+You're going to save that for after the
+
+00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:54.920
+conference, right? So that's the hardest
+
+00:11:56.140 --> 00:11:56.420
+part, is just saying, OK,
+
+00:11:58.620 --> 00:11:58.780
+yes, that's an idea. I'm going to put that in
+
+00:12:01.400 --> 00:12:01.680
+the inbox. We're going to maybe get to that
+
+00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:03.620
+next year. But right now,
+
+00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:05.560
+these are the things that I need to do in
+
+00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:07.700
+order to get the conference off the ground
+
+00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:15.320
+reasonably in a reasonable amount of time.
+
+00:12:17.140 --> 00:12:17.640
+So earlier in the conference,
+
+00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:19.740
+then I can be like, OK,
+
+00:12:21.900 --> 00:12:22.360
+what if we do this? What if we run everything
+
+00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:24.640
+off a crontab instead of using Emacs tramp
+
+00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:26.180
+timers? Wouldn't that be great?
+
+00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:28.840
+And then I can explore all those crazy ideas.
+
+00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:30.720
+But then as we get closer and closer to date,
+
+00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:32.720
+I'm like, okay, fine. I'm going to like just
+
+00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:34.700
+capture the idea and deal with it later.
+
+00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:36.580
+So that's really, really hard for me.
+
+00:12:39.520 --> 00:12:39.800
+Year to your growth in attendance and after
+
+00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:41.260
+the conference video watching.
+
+00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:46.740
+The growth, well, first thing,
+
+00:12:51.110 --> 00:12:51.610
+there is like absolute growth in the kind of
+
+00:12:53.520 --> 00:12:53.720
+the quantity of things that people are
+
+00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:57.180
+sharing. I have a blog post about this that
+
+00:12:59.440 --> 00:12:59.820
+talks about a number of minutes of talks,
+
+00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:02.360
+and it's going up. Last year,
+
+00:13:03.740 --> 00:13:03.960
+we did 2 tracks because I couldn't fit
+
+00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:05.720
+everything in 1 day. And this year,
+
+00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:07.240
+we did 2 tracks, but even then,
+
+00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.360
+everything was kind of squished,
+
+00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:10.040
+and I was trying to find space in the
+
+00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:12.160
+schedule. And if you make it so that next
+
+00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:14.000
+year, we have to figure out 3 tracks,
+
+00:13:15.760 --> 00:13:16.000
+I think We have another host now,
+
+00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:17.340
+so it might be doable,
+
+00:13:19.540 --> 00:13:19.820
+which is great. Who knows?
+
+00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:23.860
+We'll see. And the other interesting thing
+
+00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:25.520
+that I'm seeing in terms of growth is that
+
+00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.720
+people are starting to refer to the talks
+
+00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:30.300
+from previous conferences that inspired them.
+
+00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:33.220
+So the evil plan is working in that it is
+
+00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:35.160
+getting people to get cool stuff out of their
+
+00:13:37.020 --> 00:13:37.200
+heads and into videos that have like
+
+00:13:39.560 --> 00:13:39.720
+searchable transcripts and that people can
+
+00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:42.280
+refer to as for inspiration and for showing
+
+00:13:42.980 --> 00:13:43.200
+other people, hey, look,
+
+00:13:44.060 --> 00:13:44.560
+this is what it can do.
+
+00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:46.860
+So that is fantastic growth.
+
+00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:49.540
+The actual numbers, I'm intense to look at
+
+00:13:51.160 --> 00:13:51.660
+the number of simultaneous viewers.
+
+00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:53.980
+And every so often, it's kind of nice to go
+
+00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:56.360
+through the YouTube stats or whatever.
+
+00:13:57.560 --> 00:13:57.980
+But that's not so much as a,
+
+00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:01.320
+like, I don't really keep that in mind as
+
+00:14:05.060 --> 00:14:05.560
+much, just because as long as people are
+
+00:14:07.660 --> 00:14:07.880
+connecting to the ideas and getting stuff out
+
+00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:13.440
+there and being inspired to think around
+
+00:14:16.220 --> 00:14:16.720
+more, then it's doing the thing.
+
+00:14:21.300 --> 00:14:21.460
+Cognizant is working. So where are we now for
+
+00:14:22.640 --> 00:14:23.140
+questions? Ooh, I can actually,
+
+00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:25.820
+I have ERC here. I can find eventually.
+
+00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:28.700
+1 of my screens has Dev in it.
+
+00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:31.260
+Okay, here we are. What are the other
+
+00:14:34.900 --> 00:14:35.400
+questions? Probably, Probably an IRC.
+
+00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:39.520
+Where's IRC? Dove, dove,
+
+00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:46.200
+dove. I did try to record things more slowly,
+
+00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:47.520
+and I tried several times,
+
+00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.020
+but I really just speak very quickly when I
+
+00:14:53.300 --> 00:14:53.480
+get excited and Emacs is very fun so it is
+
+00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:00.460
+tough oh yes okay so 1 in once yes automated
+
+00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:04.540
+present workflows oh yeah okay so where are
+
+00:15:05.660 --> 00:15:05.840
+we now for time? Oh look,
+
+00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:07.900
+it's 4.30, should we do our closing remarks
+
+00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:09.440
+or like how are things going over in the
+
+00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.340
+other stream? I should find out.
+
+00:15:14.760 --> 00:15:14.860
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I've been keeping a close eye on the
+
+00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:16.900
+other 1, but yeah, I believe that-
+
+00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:20.300
+[Speaker 0]: Yay, look at that, good timing.
+
+00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:23.300
+Okay, I have managed to zoom through the
+
+00:15:26.660 --> 00:15:26.980
+questions and we can switch over to the
+
+00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:31.740
+closing remarks how do we do this yes okay
+
+00:15:35.060 --> 00:15:35.400
+okay we're gonna oh wait people okay people
+
+00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:37.760
+who wanted to ask questions how do you want
+
+00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:39.360
+to do this? Because there are a lot of people
+
+00:15:42.040 --> 00:15:42.240
+in this 1 here too. You want to go to the
+
+00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:49.320
+other 1? 0 no, they aren't done yet.
+
+00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:51.600
+Sorry, I forgot to turn on the con tab
+
+00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:53.000
+because of course I got excited.
+
+00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:55.200
+Okay, so Jacob is still answering questions,
+
+00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:57.440
+which means I get to still answer questions.
+
+00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:00.060
+Now I'll try to be quiet and let people in
+
+00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:02.220
+the BBB room speak up if we want to.
+
+00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:12.540
+Okay that means
+
+00:16:13.585 --> 00:16:13.650
+[Speaker 3]: are going to hear.
+
+00:16:13.715 --> 00:16:13.780
+[Speaker 1]: Some more
+
+00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:16.100
+[Speaker 2]: people in the chat ideas I had on the Emacs
+
+00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:18.000
+conferences you could have like a little
+
+00:16:21.300 --> 00:16:21.660
+Emacs starter config just for like the Emacs
+
+00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:27.040
+conference where you have emms playlist and
+
+00:16:29.540 --> 00:16:29.780
+IRC help cheer function to help get you into
+
+00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:35.320
+IRC into ERC and then the to-do states that I
+
+00:16:36.060 --> 00:16:36.560
+was talking about before.
+
+00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:40.380
+So you can say, I'm watching this 1,
+
+00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:41.480
+I want to re-watch this 1,
+
+00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:43.080
+but I'm going to skip it because I'm watching
+
+00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:53.220
+something else. I used the HyperBowl package
+
+00:16:55.680 --> 00:16:55.860
+to go straight to the web pages to all the
+
+00:16:59.600 --> 00:16:59.860
+either pads but you can also have some quick
+
+00:17:04.540 --> 00:17:04.960
+functions to go into a CRDT buffer hosted
+
+00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:07.900
+buffer, where all the org mode Etherpad
+
+00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:14.440
+documents would be. And then that would get
+
+00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:15.780
+everybody using Emacs,
+
+00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:17.839
+and then they could all be chatting with each
+
+00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:23.980
+other with CRDT, with controlling Emacs.
+
+00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:25.680
+I don't know how the sub stuff,
+
+00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:27.339
+I don't know if you can get the sub stuff in
+
+00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:30.060
+there working, but yeah,
+
+00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:33.160
+It could be a good way of getting it all
+
+00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:35.420
+wrapped up together. And also,
+
+00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:38.400
+Mkron, if you ever looked at that versus
+
+00:17:40.800 --> 00:17:41.300
+Kron, Mkron is configured in Elisp.
+
+00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:43.740
+Then you can also write some custom functions
+
+00:17:44.620 --> 00:17:45.120
+in the middle of your Kron.
+
+00:17:46.800 --> 00:17:47.280
+So maybe you could make some like conditional
+
+00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:49.460
+things where you can start or stop it.
+
+00:17:56.320 --> 00:17:56.440
+And like 1 of the differences is if your
+
+00:17:58.860 --> 00:17:59.100
+computer reboots, it can start up and say,
+
+00:18:01.780 --> 00:18:02.160
+oh, I'm supposed to run this cron job at this
+
+00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.200
+time and then just Do the correct thing
+
+00:18:08.100 --> 00:18:08.600
+rather than losing the state Randomly because
+
+00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:10.940
+your computer lost power
+
+00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:15.900
+[Speaker 0]: Thanks for those recommendations I will add
+
+00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.140
+mcron to my list of things to check out.
+
+00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.020
+And yeah, we finally remembered to publish
+
+00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:25.400
+all those schedules as org,
+
+00:18:27.540 --> 00:18:27.840
+and I decided to just spam all the time zones
+
+00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:29.020
+with them, which was fantastic.
+
+00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:30.620
+And other people have mentioned that this is
+
+00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:32.960
+useful. We get to figure out how to use this
+
+00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:35.900
+to teach people more about what you can do
+
+00:18:36.620 --> 00:18:37.120
+with org. As you mentioned,
+
+00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:41.280
+encouraging them to tag the stuff with things
+
+00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:43.860
+that they want to attend gives us the ability
+
+00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:46.240
+to set up an agenda view for them that has
+
+00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:48.340
+the talks that are tagged with those tags.
+
+00:18:48.580 --> 00:18:48.600
+[Speaker 3]: So I
+
+00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:49.780
+[Speaker 0]: was like, okay, let's,
+
+00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:54.340
+let's teach org mode and lisp in the process
+
+00:18:58.120 --> 00:18:58.380
+of doing things. Okay,
+
+00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:01.000
+there was a question about any chance of an
+
+00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.220
+in person EmacsConf again someday.
+
+00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:06.000
+And I was actually at the very first EMAX
+
+00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:11.400
+Conf, which was 2013 and organized in London
+
+00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:13.080
+to take advantage of the fact that I had a
+
+00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.160
+business shift there. It was fantastic being
+
+00:19:18.760 --> 00:19:19.120
+in a room with 100 other people who are all
+
+00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:20.460
+really interested in Emacs,
+
+00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:23.560
+but I'm not traveling like any time for the
+
+00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:25.680
+foreseeable future, so if other people are
+
+00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:27.800
+interested in organizing something like that,
+
+00:19:29.260 --> 00:19:29.760
+I am totally happy to spread the word.
+
+00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:31.860
+It doesn't fit with my current lifestyle,
+
+00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360
+but it might fit somebody's.
+
+00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:37.580
+I don't know. We're still just here.
+
+00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:39.300
+And I like the virtual conference.
+
+00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:42.120
+I really like the fact that we can bring
+
+00:19:43.780 --> 00:19:44.280
+together people from all over the world.
+
+00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:46.840
+I can take a look at my schedule with all the
+
+00:19:47.540 --> 00:19:47.720
+time constraints. Okay,
+
+00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:49.300
+I need to put this person in the morning
+
+00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:50.800
+because they're in Australia and I need to
+
+00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:52.360
+put this person in the afternoon because
+
+00:19:56.120 --> 00:19:56.360
+they're from Vancouver or from somewhere else
+
+00:19:58.020 --> 00:19:58.520
+in the Pacific time zone.
+
+00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:01.920
+And it's just this breadth of people.
+
+00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:04.300
+But the other thing that I would love for
+
+00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:06.420
+people to start thinking about is if we could
+
+00:20:08.300 --> 00:20:08.560
+have a virtual conference in other time
+
+00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:11.580
+zones, so that's easier for people in Asia
+
+00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:13.220
+Pacific or Europe to attend.
+
+00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:16.580
+And as we're getting the hang of this,
+
+00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:18.080
+this crontab-based thing,
+
+00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:20.320
+I think we might almost be at the point where
+
+00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:22.540
+I can set it up to run even when I'm
+
+00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:25.080
+sleeping. And then other people can figure
+
+00:20:26.120 --> 00:20:26.520
+out, you know, the exception handling,
+
+00:20:27.780 --> 00:20:27.900
+oh, you know, this talk needs to be
+
+00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:30.780
+restarted. Okay, just play it again and scrub
+
+00:20:31.800 --> 00:20:32.300
+around to find the right part,
+
+00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:35.000
+which means we could have replays,
+
+00:20:37.060 --> 00:20:37.560
+or we can have like the Asia Pacific
+
+00:20:39.140 --> 00:20:39.440
+Alternate Event that we had the other time
+
+00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:45.780
+where some speakers came back online and did
+
+00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:49.040
+another Q&A session just for that kind of
+
+00:20:51.360 --> 00:20:51.660
+event. So those are other cool,
+
+00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:53.460
+fun things that would love to be,
+
+00:20:57.700 --> 00:20:58.140
+would be great. Satellite events,
+
+00:20:59.480 --> 00:20:59.980
+someone mentioned in the etherpad.
+
+00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:03.520
+Some people have been organizing these,
+
+00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:05.280
+which are great. Basically a bunch of people
+
+00:21:07.800 --> 00:21:08.080
+get together in a room or 2 rooms now because
+
+00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:10.820
+of the tracks and watch Emacs Conf together.
+
+00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:13.140
+So if you have a physical meetup or if you'd
+
+00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:15.760
+like to start 1, It's basically,
+
+00:21:17.860 --> 00:21:17.960
+you know, do this, maybe have stickers if you
+
+00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:20.200
+have stickers. You know,
+
+00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:22.800
+it's just have everyone come over and hang
+
+00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:24.680
+out and meet people. I don't know.
+
+00:21:27.540 --> 00:21:27.660
+It's a thing. Specifically how to do it,
+
+00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:29.700
+I have no idea how to organize these things.
+
+00:21:32.080 --> 00:21:32.580
+But Alain does. So talk to him.
+
+00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:35.580
+[Speaker 2]: Another way of adding multiple tracks is
+
+00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:38.140
+changing it to doing it like 2 times a year,
+
+00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:40.260
+in max confidence.
+
+00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:44.640
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, yeah, people have mentioned something
+
+00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:50.320
+like that. Or the fact that org often has
+
+00:21:51.860 --> 00:21:52.280
+like a full day of talks by itself,
+
+00:21:53.800 --> 00:21:53.980
+and actually a little bit more than a day
+
+00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:55.640
+now, because I've been squeezing things into
+
+00:21:58.260 --> 00:21:58.760
+other tracks. There has been some potential
+
+00:22:00.060 --> 00:22:00.560
+interest in having an org conf.
+
+00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:03.480
+It could be a thing. And I'd love to see
+
+00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:06.240
+also, we'd love to experiment with other
+
+00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:09.240
+formats. So there could be a bug hunting
+
+00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:13.900
+session or let's use the breakout rooms to
+
+00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.120
+split up into little mentoring groups and see
+
+00:22:18.040 --> 00:22:18.240
+how that works. So lots of things that we can
+
+00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:21.760
+do. They've actually finished over in the Gen
+
+00:22:24.360 --> 00:22:24.620
+track so I don't know if people want to very
+
+00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:26.920
+quickly ask questions here or if we go there.
+
+00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:31.260
+Leo has come over here instead so okay he's
+
+00:22:32.560 --> 00:22:33.060
+joining over here on the other side.
+
+00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:36.180
+Okay, hello.
+
+00:22:38.060 --> 00:22:38.560
+[Speaker 3]: I
+
+00:22:43.260 --> 00:22:43.440
+[Speaker 1]: have 1 thing to add. Yeah,
+
+00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:46.720
+[Speaker 4]: No, no, no, I was just about to say I am not
+
+00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:48.680
+hosting anymore. You 2 do a wonderful job,
+
+00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:50.140
+and I'm happy to just watch.
+
+00:22:53.860 --> 00:22:54.000
+[Speaker 1]: go ahead. Cool. Yeah, I was going to add 1
+
+00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:56.660
+quick note about any potential suggestions or
+
+00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:58.240
+recommendations for hosting Emacs on
+
+00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:00.240
+satellites. Is that, I mean,
+
+00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:02.300
+given that we are an event centered around
+
+00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:07.440
+Emacs, and Emacs is backed by the Free
+
+00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:09.320
+Software Foundation, if you do reach out to
+
+00:23:11.180 --> 00:23:11.680
+them, they're usually pretty helpful in terms
+
+00:23:14.340 --> 00:23:14.840
+of sending goodies and stickers and such.
+
+00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.040
+So yeah, if you give them a heads up and
+
+00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:18.400
+reach out to them in advance,
+
+00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.880
+you might well end up with a whole bunch of
+
+00:23:22.800 --> 00:23:23.000
+swag on your hands that you could give out
+
+00:23:24.860 --> 00:23:25.360
+during the satellite. So that's the thing.
+
+00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:36.000
+[Speaker 5]: Well, I just wanted to note it felt kind of
+
+00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:37.840
+even smoother. I mean,
+
+00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:40.160
+you guys always run a nice conference,
+
+00:23:43.180 --> 00:23:43.460
+but it felt smoother this year than ever
+
+00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:45.980
+before, which listening to your talk,
+
+00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:48.900
+Sasha, All the automation that you're doing
+
+00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:52.740
+is pretty incredible. So I think it's paying
+
+00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:53.240
+off.
+
+00:23:58.180 --> 00:23:58.320
+[Speaker 0]: Yay! You know, it is very amusing to hear the
+
+00:23:59.240 --> 00:23:59.440
+host say, okay, you know,
+
+00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:01.000
+but we've got to wrap up in the next 30
+
+00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:03.040
+seconds because Sasha's contact is going to
+
+00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:03.740
+go yoink!
+
+00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:12.980
+[Speaker 5]: I have a person I work with who keeps the
+
+00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:15.860
+trains running on time shall we say and like
+
+00:24:18.940 --> 00:24:19.140
+cuts off every meeting like the second that
+
+00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:21.320
+it's supposed to end while somebody's in
+
+00:24:24.860 --> 00:24:25.080
+mid-sentence and I hope we don't get to that
+
+00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:25.880
+point here.
+
+00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:34.740
+[Speaker 0]: So do we have any more,
+
+00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:36.360
+[Speaker 4]: oh sorry I'm reverting to the hosting,
+
+00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:37.900
+Do we have any more questions for MaxConf?
+
+00:24:39.760 --> 00:24:39.960
+Although maybe we want to switch to the other
+
+00:24:41.580 --> 00:24:41.760
+room so that we don't struggle too much to
+
+00:24:44.340 --> 00:24:44.840
+find... Organize the stuff on BBB afterwards.
+
+00:24:46.360 --> 00:24:46.620
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, the recording. Well,
+
+00:24:48.340 --> 00:24:48.640
+this is a way to make sure the recording gets
+
+00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:54.640
+online. But we could do that too.
+
+00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:56.260
+I don't know. What do y'all think?
+
+00:25:00.580 --> 00:25:00.900
+[Speaker 4]: I'm personally fine. If we want to stay here
+
+00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.220
+right now, the development track is currently
+
+00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:05.780
+streaming this BBB room.
+
+00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:08.940
+So are we on Jen. So we're going to leave it
+
+00:25:10.760 --> 00:25:10.840
+at is and move into closing remarks if we
+
+00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:11.340
+want.
+
+00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.060
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, just, I guess,
+
+00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:17.920
+make sure that every 1 of the organizers are
+
+00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:21.060
+here. I see Flo here. Let's see,
+
+00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:23.860
+Corbyn, are you here? Can you maybe speak
+
+00:25:24.280 --> 00:25:24.780
+here on BBB?
+
+00:25:32.860 --> 00:25:33.000
+[Speaker 4]: We'll give some time for Corbyn to figure it
+
+00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:34.280
+out. He did figure it out eventually
+
+00:25:36.260 --> 00:25:36.420
+yesterday, so surely today will go
+
+00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:36.920
+swimmingly.
+
+00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:47.720
+Right. We're getting everything ready,
+
+00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:48.220
+folks.
+
+00:25:57.100 --> 00:25:57.600
+[Speaker 0]: Okay. So while we sort out Corwin,
+
+00:25:58.980 --> 00:25:59.280
+can someone tell him on mumble,
+
+00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:00.980
+I guess? Because I'm not sure if he's...
+
+00:26:05.060 --> 00:26:05.420
+Anyway. I also want to say that in the Emacs
+
+00:26:06.580 --> 00:26:06.740
+conference channel, people have been
+
+00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.060
+mentioning that the remote stuff has been
+
+00:26:10.840 --> 00:26:10.920
+working for them. And I really do like the
+
+00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:12.880
+way that this means we can have all the
+
+00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:14.480
+videos, you know, all prepared,
+
+00:26:16.020 --> 00:26:16.220
+they're captioned, you know,
+
+00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:17.580
+We can send them to people,
+
+00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:19.500
+we can post them on the website afterwards.
+
+00:26:21.540 --> 00:26:22.020
+We can bring all these people together who
+
+00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:23.880
+might not be able to convince their companies
+
+00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:25.680
+to fly them somewhere for an Emacs
+
+00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:29.760
+conference. And also I can do this kind of
+
+00:26:32.120 --> 00:26:32.620
+prep while having my now seven-year-old still
+
+00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:34.980
+be able to wander by and whatever.
+
+00:26:36.820 --> 00:26:37.320
+Travelling is really tough.
+
+00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:39.600
+So, this is fine. This is cool.
+
+00:26:40.760 --> 00:26:41.260
+I like this. We'll keep doing it.
+
+00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:44.740
+[Speaker 4]: It's definitely playing into the low-cost
+
+00:26:46.360 --> 00:26:46.820
+conference. To do it online,
+
+00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:48.400
+So many people can just access it very
+
+00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:54.220
+easily. All right, so we've messaged Colwyn.
+
+00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:56.040
+I guess we can get started with Dalim.
+
+00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:57.900
+It should maybe take a minute or 2 to join
+
+00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:01.640
+us. Should I get started with the Final words
+
+00:27:04.540 --> 00:27:04.900
+of the day? All right,
+
+00:27:05.740 --> 00:27:06.240
+cool. All right, folks,
+
+00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:08.440
+we made it. We are at the end of the second
+
+00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:10.820
+day of EmacsConf, the second of 2 days.
+
+00:27:12.620 --> 00:27:13.040
+And the first thing I want to say is first,
+
+00:27:15.360 --> 00:27:15.660
+thank you so much for joining us for this new
+
+00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:19.200
+edition. It's personally my fourth year doing
+
+00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:22.500
+the EmacsConf, but if you go to emacsconf-org
+
+00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:25.080
+and you see the different sessions,
+
+00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:27.660
+you will realize that the first 1 was in
+
+00:27:29.820 --> 00:27:30.300
+2013, which happens to be 10 years ago.
+
+00:27:33.340 --> 00:27:33.480
+So we are obviously very excited about all of
+
+00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:35.680
+this and we'll tell you perhaps a little more
+
+00:27:38.100 --> 00:27:38.300
+about what has changed over the last 10
+
+00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:42.260
+years. As usual, you know the pre-recorded
+
+00:27:44.540 --> 00:27:44.800
+talks are available right now on the talk
+
+00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:46.800
+page, at least for all those which were
+
+00:27:48.620 --> 00:27:48.760
+pre-recorded. All the ones which happened on
+
+00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:50.320
+the Google button, it will take us a little
+
+00:27:52.360 --> 00:27:52.780
+bit of time to figure out how to,
+
+00:27:54.320 --> 00:27:54.820
+well, when to put them available.
+
+00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:56.880
+We need to do subtitles and all this jazzy
+
+00:27:59.060 --> 00:27:59.440
+stuff. And we'll also upload them to YouTube
+
+00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:02.000
+and other places once we check the audio,
+
+00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:03.200
+especially for the Q&As.
+
+00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:05.280
+We need to clean up some of the audios and
+
+00:28:08.300 --> 00:28:08.680
+make sure that we do not publish any personal
+
+00:28:13.040 --> 00:28:13.220
+stuff. All the live talks and Q&As will do
+
+00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:14.700
+this in the weeks to come.
+
+00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:16.800
+Usually, it takes us about 1 to 2 months to
+
+00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:17.640
+try to get everything out,
+
+00:28:18.280 --> 00:28:18.680
+but if it takes longer,
+
+00:28:19.540 --> 00:28:20.040
+it's fine. Eventually,
+
+00:28:20.900 --> 00:28:21.180
+everything will be there.
+
+00:28:23.360 --> 00:28:23.860
+The 1 thing we can say is that by EmacsConf
+
+00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:26.660
+2024, when it comes around,
+
+00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:28.840
+everything should have been uploaded at some
+
+00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:30.600
+point. So that's a wide window.
+
+00:28:34.340 --> 00:28:34.700
+So again, and as usual,
+
+00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:36.480
+feel free to spread the word about EmacsConf
+
+00:28:38.860 --> 00:28:38.940
+because, you know, we've been doing this for
+
+00:28:42.100 --> 00:28:42.280
+a while and every year more people show up to
+
+00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:44.440
+these events and more people watch the videos
+
+00:28:46.620 --> 00:28:47.120
+on YouTube and it's wonderful to see,
+
+00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:50.220
+you know, our main goal which is to get cool
+
+00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:51.900
+ideas out of the head of people,
+
+00:28:53.860 --> 00:28:54.280
+shared and viewed by so many people.
+
+00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:57.160
+It's always amazing. Also,
+
+00:28:58.180 --> 00:28:58.680
+I would like to ask you personally,
+
+00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:00.060
+what did you like about this conference?
+
+00:29:01.780 --> 00:29:01.980
+Or what do you like, what do you feel was
+
+00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:02.860
+better than last year,
+
+00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:05.840
+because the feedback is very useful to us.
+
+00:29:07.340 --> 00:29:07.540
+We'd also like to know if you've got any
+
+00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:09.440
+ideas for making things even better.
+
+00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:12.180
+And we've got a general conference discussion
+
+00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:14.400
+slash notes slash community message board,
+
+00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:15.420
+which is pad.emaxconf.org
+
+00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:19.640
+slash 2023. And you can also just mention
+
+00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:22.300
+them. You know, we might open this room for
+
+00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:24.520
+people to join us and chat,
+
+00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:25.960
+although Flowy and myself,
+
+00:29:27.340 --> 00:29:27.540
+your up team, needs to go to bed.
+
+00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:28.680
+So please be mindful of this.
+
+00:29:29.760 --> 00:29:30.160
+If you ask a very interesting question,
+
+00:29:32.260 --> 00:29:32.560
+We will both have to make sacrifices to stay
+
+00:29:34.300 --> 00:29:34.680
+a while longer because you're too damn
+
+00:29:38.620 --> 00:29:39.080
+interesting. Now we'd like to move into
+
+00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:41.500
+thanking all the people who make EmacsConf
+
+00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:43.080
+possible. And obviously,
+
+00:29:45.060 --> 00:29:45.560
+first, we have to thank all the speakers,
+
+00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:47.460
+all the volunteers, the participants,
+
+00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:50.240
+and to all those other people in our lives
+
+00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:51.820
+who make it possible through time and
+
+00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:54.060
+support, thank you so much for allowing us to
+
+00:29:55.760 --> 00:29:55.960
+run EmacsCount. It wouldn't happen without
+
+00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:57.440
+you, and without us, I suppose,
+
+00:29:58.540 --> 00:29:59.040
+because we are included in this.
+
+00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:02.220
+This year's conference hosts are myself,
+
+00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:03.900
+Leo Vivier, Amine Bendali,
+
+00:30:05.860 --> 00:30:06.100
+and joining our team of hosts for the first
+
+00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:07.540
+time this year, Flobby Coder.
+
+00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:08.360
+Thank you so much, Flobby.
+
+00:30:09.340 --> 00:30:09.840
+You did a wonderful job.
+
+00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:12.100
+It's right there. No, dammit.
+
+00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:15.360
+No, I can't. I can never remember if BBB is
+
+00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:17.360
+flipping stuff, so either 1 of those
+
+00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:20.020
+directions. The streams this year,
+
+00:30:21.760 --> 00:30:22.200
+as last year, were managed by Sasha Schwa,
+
+00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:24.820
+obviously. And the check-ins by Flobby Coder,
+
+00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:27.740
+and I'm in with Miscellaneous running around
+
+00:30:30.020 --> 00:30:30.520
+by Corwin Brust, who will be joining us
+
+00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:32.500
+momentarily. Apparently,
+
+00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:35.140
+all his USB failed, so he will be with us as
+
+00:30:38.140 --> 00:30:38.640
+[Speaker 3]: Roost. Rhymes with Roost.
+
+00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:41.380
+Do I have audio now? Alright,
+
+00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:42.800
+I'll go to work on my camera.
+
+00:30:43.820 --> 00:30:44.320
+Hi. Hello?
+
+00:30:45.540 --> 00:30:45.980
+[Speaker 4]: soon as he can. It's Lovely.
+
+00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.140
+Okay, I'll keep going.
+
+00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:49.460
+I also need to thank, well,
+
+00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:51.480
+need, no, I want to thank all the captioning
+
+00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:53.400
+volunteers, the captioners as we call them.
+
+00:30:54.380 --> 00:30:54.880
+You've got Daniel Molina,
+
+00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:57.660
+Bala Ramadoui, Durai, sorry,
+
+00:30:59.140 --> 00:30:59.640
+Bhavin Gandhi, Amin Zayed,
+
+00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:02.440
+Yoni Rapkin, who presented 1 of the talk
+
+00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:04.740
+earlier, Daniel Alejandro Tapia,
+
+00:31:06.060 --> 00:31:06.560
+Hannah Miller, Ken Huang,
+
+00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:07.700
+Jean-Christophe Ellary,
+
+00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:10.800
+and James Howell. Also thanking
+
+00:31:11.320 --> 00:31:11.760
+Jean-Christophe Ellary,
+
+00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:13.680
+Colwyn, Quiliro, Kern,
+
+00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:15.800
+and Amin Bendali for helping with the early
+
+00:31:18.120 --> 00:31:18.620
+acceptance process. Sasha,
+
+00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:21.600
+do I read this 1? It's weird to think myself.
+
+00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:23.080
+I'm gonna pat myself on the back,
+
+00:31:24.780 --> 00:31:25.280
+I guess. Go on, Sasha.
+
+00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:26.920
+I'll do it. I'll do it.
+
+00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:29.340
+It's fine. Thanks to myself for fiddling with
+
+00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:31.400
+the audio to get things nicely synced,
+
+00:31:34.120 --> 00:31:34.340
+And thanks to myself again and other people,
+
+00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:37.340
+we kept the mailing list free from spam.
+
+00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:39.440
+Because I'm not sure what happened since May,
+
+00:31:41.820 --> 00:31:42.180
+but we've been receiving about 3 to 4 spam
+
+00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:45.040
+emails. And it just happened all of a sudden,
+
+00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:46.900
+and I was really weirded out by this process.
+
+00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:51.880
+Where was I? OK, thanks to Andrew Ducurty for
+
+00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:53.500
+helping with whisper processing.
+
+00:31:55.840 --> 00:31:56.200
+Thanks to Ashki Ghekwad for design
+
+00:31:57.540 --> 00:31:58.040
+contribution. Thanks to Yoshin,
+
+00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:00.040
+our grand changro for all the music that
+
+00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:01.960
+we've been using for the last 3 years at this
+
+00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:04.840
+point, I think. Also thanks to Rye for the
+
+00:32:06.820 --> 00:32:07.020
+server that we're using for OBS streaming and
+
+00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:08.220
+for processing videos.
+
+00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:10.800
+And also thanks to the free software
+
+00:32:12.540 --> 00:32:13.040
+foundation for obviously Emacs itself,
+
+00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:14.840
+the mailing list that we use,
+
+00:32:15.340 --> 00:32:15.840
+and the media.emacsconf-org
+
+00:32:19.540 --> 00:32:19.780
+server where all of the presentations are
+
+00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:22.580
+currently hosted. We'd also like to thank
+
+00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:24.020
+BigBlueButton, Etherpad,
+
+00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:26.420
+IceCast, OBS, The Lounge,
+
+00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:28.980
+Libre.chat, FFmpeg, OpenAI,
+
+00:32:31.300 --> 00:32:31.800
+Whisper, the E-N-E-S force alignment tool,
+
+00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.000
+Site Transfer, SubD, and contributors to all
+
+00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:37.020
+of the tools and services we used in the
+
+00:32:37.600 --> 00:32:38.000
+making of this conference.
+
+00:32:39.520 --> 00:32:39.960
+And obviously, all of them are free,
+
+00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:41.880
+as Sasha obviously told you,
+
+00:32:44.080 --> 00:32:44.260
+and as we will be telling you again for many
+
+00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:48.060
+years to come. We'd also like again to thank
+
+00:32:49.780 --> 00:32:50.140
+everyone for attending the conference and
+
+00:32:51.820 --> 00:32:52.320
+making EmacsConf what it is.
+
+00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:54.280
+And for those who were on the general track,
+
+00:32:56.540 --> 00:32:56.720
+you know Sasha did it in parallel to the last
+
+00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.340
+talk we had today. She did a wonderful talk
+
+00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:02.180
+on how EmacsConf is actually run.
+
+00:33:05.620 --> 00:33:06.060
+So there's her talk, there's also an entire
+
+00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:08.260
+page on our wiki about the infrastructure
+
+00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:10.400
+that we use. So if you're interested,
+
+00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:12.380
+especially in running an event of your own,
+
+00:33:14.340 --> 00:33:14.540
+you've got as much information as you want,
+
+00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:15.940
+and as Sacha probably told you,
+
+00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:18.100
+we are available for sharing the knowledge
+
+00:33:20.820 --> 00:33:20.940
+and enabling your dreams of making a
+
+00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:24.340
+conference. Amint, do you want to take it
+
+00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.180
+over with the fiscal sponsorship
+
+00:33:29.320 --> 00:33:29.480
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, sure. Let's see.
+
+00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:31.480
+Can you please scroll down a little bit?
+
+00:33:33.520 --> 00:33:34.020
+Whoever is kindly sharing the screen.
+
+00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:34.960
+[Speaker 4]: announcements? Okay. Oh,
+
+00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:36.360
+I was scrolling on my end.
+
+00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:36.860
+Sorry.
+
+00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:41.780
+[Speaker 1]: Thanks, Sasha. Yeah, so kind of super excited
+
+00:33:43.080 --> 00:33:43.300
+to finally get into this.
+
+00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:45.300
+And this is something that we've been kind of
+
+00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:47.200
+hoping to get worked out for a long time
+
+00:33:48.280 --> 00:33:48.780
+actually and it's finally here.
+
+00:33:52.900 --> 00:33:53.140
+So people might have already seen this but as
+
+00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.120
+of this last Thursday we're actually fiscally
+
+00:33:59.440 --> 00:33:59.940
+sponsored by the Free Software Foundation.
+
+00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:03.740
+So we joined their Working Together for Free
+
+00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:07.840
+Software program. And DFSF published the
+
+00:34:08.540 --> 00:34:08.940
+announcement on their website.
+
+00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:11.500
+You're welcome to go and check it out there.
+
+00:34:14.060 --> 00:34:14.280
+But I just want to quickly get into a little
+
+00:34:17.900 --> 00:34:18.040
+bit about what it means and some of the
+
+00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:22.000
+benefits, I guess. So as part of this working
+
+00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:23.800
+together for a free software fund,
+
+00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:26.679
+the FSF provides fiscal sponsorship for a
+
+00:34:29.060 --> 00:34:29.320
+number of important free software and new
+
+00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:31.239
+technical projects, such as the new tool
+
+00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:33.840
+chain and Replicant, which is a free fork of
+
+00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:36.540
+Android. And starting this year,
+
+00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:38.800
+EmacsConf has joined the program as well.
+
+00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:41.440
+And as a fiscal sponsor,
+
+00:34:43.520 --> 00:34:44.020
+DFSF can assist us by providing services
+
+00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:46.940
+required by a legal entity,
+
+00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:49.460
+like signing contracts and receiving and
+
+00:34:53.080 --> 00:34:53.360
+processing payments. So to provide some
+
+00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:57.040
+context, eMAXConf is and always has been an
+
+00:34:58.740 --> 00:34:58.940
+independent initiative organized by a very
+
+00:34:59.700 --> 00:35:00.140
+small number of people,
+
+00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:02.560
+a small team of people without any corporate
+
+00:35:05.980 --> 00:35:06.220
+sponsors. And that's important in part
+
+00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:09.380
+because I believe part of our message is that
+
+00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:12.040
+we want to showcase that everybody can do
+
+00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:14.380
+this and organize a conference like this no
+
+00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:17.560
+matter how small your team is and how modest
+
+00:35:19.540 --> 00:35:19.900
+your resources are, which we will actually
+
+00:35:21.260 --> 00:35:21.560
+get into a little bit later in the closing
+
+00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:25.900
+remarks. But yeah, so now having the FSF as
+
+00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:28.020
+our fiscal sponsor, we're in a better
+
+00:35:30.200 --> 00:35:30.680
+position to accept donations as 1 potential
+
+00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:33.860
+way to contribute or help the conference.
+
+00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:36.860
+And just to clarify, we're currently not
+
+00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:39.520
+struggling at all to cover these costs of the
+
+00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:41.240
+servers and such, which we will get into
+
+00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:45.060
+again. But this is just 1 extra avenue if
+
+00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:46.880
+people are feeling generous and would like to
+
+00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.380
+help, it's much appreciated.
+
+00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:54.620
+And yeah, so having a 501c3 nonprofit like
+
+00:35:57.160 --> 00:35:57.660
+the FSF, as a fiscal sponsor,
+
+00:36:00.060 --> 00:36:00.340
+many donors will receive tax benefits that
+
+00:36:02.180 --> 00:36:02.360
+they otherwise wouldn't receive if they were
+
+00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:04.680
+to like donate to like individuals running a
+
+00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:07.720
+project directly. And also donors can know
+
+00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:09.140
+that, you know, the funds that they're
+
+00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:11.420
+donating are being handled by an accountable
+
+00:36:14.060 --> 00:36:14.540
+institution. And also importantly,
+
+00:36:16.020 --> 00:36:16.520
+when donating through the FSF,
+
+00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:20.460
+Let's see, text changing.
+
+00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:23.560
+Okay, yeah. People can donate without having
+
+00:36:24.600 --> 00:36:25.100
+to run any non-free JavaScript,
+
+00:36:27.380 --> 00:36:27.880
+which is nice. Because unfortunately,
+
+00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:29.540
+usually these days on the web when you do
+
+00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:30.880
+want to buy something or spend money,
+
+00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:32.340
+you have to run non-free JavaScript,
+
+00:36:35.020 --> 00:36:35.220
+which isn't the case when donating through
+
+00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:38.160
+the FSF. Yeah, so we just joined,
+
+00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:39.500
+as I said, on Thursday,
+
+00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:43.220
+and we've already received our very first
+
+00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:45.640
+donation, so we'd like to extend our thanks
+
+00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:47.300
+and gratitude to Scott Ranby,
+
+00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:49.980
+who is actually our first ever kind donor.
+
+00:36:51.820 --> 00:36:52.320
+They agreed to be thanked publicly.
+
+00:36:55.900 --> 00:36:56.200
+So thank you, Scott. And yeah,
+
+00:36:57.040 --> 00:36:57.540
+so this is a recent development.
+
+00:36:59.800 --> 00:36:59.980
+And we plan to add much more information and
+
+00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:02.020
+details about this whole situation to the
+
+00:37:04.200 --> 00:37:04.700
+wiki, including links to the announcements,
+
+00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:06.780
+some more information about the program,
+
+00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:08.540
+and our donation page of course,
+
+00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:13.140
+in the new future. And in the meantime I'm
+
+00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:15.240
+also happy to help answer any questions as
+
+00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:18.400
+best as I can, So feel free to ping me on IRC
+
+00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:20.140
+or just email me at bandalia.guinard.org.
+
+00:37:26.140 --> 00:37:26.640
+[Speaker 3]: Which gives me a chance to jump in and just
+
+00:37:29.060 --> 00:37:29.560
+point out 1 question that we know people have
+
+00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:32.960
+is just about how much of the money goes to
+
+00:37:35.660 --> 00:37:35.860
+FSF when you make a contribution through the
+
+00:37:36.860 --> 00:37:37.360
+fund toward EmacsConf?
+
+00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:40.760
+[Speaker 1]: Right, exactly. Yeah, and the answer to that
+
+00:37:44.540 --> 00:37:44.720
+is that it's 10%, which is for supporting the
+
+00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:46.960
+operation of the Working Together program and
+
+00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:49.300
+also the shared GNU infrastructure,
+
+00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:52.540
+which we as EmacsConf use and depend on,
+
+00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:55.420
+along with several hundred GNU packages.
+
+00:37:59.860 --> 00:38:00.060
+So, yeah, and it covers things like
+
+00:38:03.060 --> 00:38:03.480
+transaction costs that the FSF's payment
+
+00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:04.500
+processor charges?
+
+00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:10.240
+[Speaker 3]: And then again I'll come back to say this is
+
+00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:12.780
+a real fair price. I have some experience
+
+00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:15.540
+with working with payment processing and
+
+00:38:19.120 --> 00:38:19.440
+things like this and like 10% that's a that's
+
+00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:22.940
+something that you see in Bigger businesses
+
+00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:26.380
+that have a model around making money on that
+
+00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:29.280
+Transaction so to be able to do that as a
+
+00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:31.760
+nonprofit. We're taking advantage of a really
+
+00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:32.900
+awesome thing there.
+
+00:38:35.860 --> 00:38:36.060
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, exactly. And yeah,
+
+00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:37.120
+just for a quick plug,
+
+00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:39.060
+the FSF is actually doing an end of year
+
+00:38:41.780 --> 00:38:42.020
+fundraiser right now. So if you want to go
+
+00:38:44.220 --> 00:38:44.700
+donate to them, or if you donate to us,
+
+00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.260
+a part of it will go to the FSF to support
+
+00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:51.900
+their work on free software,
+
+00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:53.500
+helping grow the movement,
+
+00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:56.120
+and spread the word about it.
+
+00:39:02.080 --> 00:39:02.360
+So, thank you. And I guess now is a good time
+
+00:39:05.380 --> 00:39:05.800
+for me to pass the baton to the next
+
+00:39:08.160 --> 00:39:08.320
+organizer who wants to talk about some of the
+
+00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:11.540
+specs of the servers that we use right now.
+
+00:39:14.720 --> 00:39:14.860
+[Speaker 0]: We actually don't have to go about this in
+
+00:39:16.560 --> 00:39:16.840
+detail. I just put it in there in case people
+
+00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:19.540
+were curious about how much it takes to run
+
+00:39:20.740 --> 00:39:21.240
+something like this. Not a lot.
+
+00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:23.100
+It's just really, you know,
+
+00:39:26.100 --> 00:39:26.260
+2 days of computing is not that expensive in
+
+00:39:29.060 --> 00:39:29.480
+today's world, and all the rest is just
+
+00:39:32.220 --> 00:39:32.640
+volunteer time and a heck of a lot of Emacs
+
+00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:34.280
+lists as previously discussed in our
+
+00:39:41.020 --> 00:39:41.180
+presentation. So, we'll just skip through
+
+00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:42.440
+that instead of reading all of it.
+
+00:39:43.580 --> 00:39:43.840
+Unless people are specifically curious,
+
+00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:45.140
+you can ask questions afterwards.
+
+00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:46.820
+But yes, happy birthday,
+
+00:39:49.200 --> 00:39:49.440
+EmacsConf, and here's another wonderful 10
+
+00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:49.940
+years.
+
+00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:57.040
+[Speaker 4]: All right, I think we are at the end of the
+
+00:39:58.820 --> 00:39:59.320
+closing remarks. Have I forgotten anything?
+
+00:40:00.060 --> 00:40:00.380
+We haven't had Flowy yet,
+
+00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:03.560
+I believe. Sorry for putting you on the spot
+
+00:40:03.560 --> 00:40:04.060
+again.
+
+00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:08.400
+[Speaker 6]: I guess I have nothing really to say besides
+
+00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:09.780
+what you have already said.
+
+00:40:12.560 --> 00:40:13.060
+So thank everybody to make a presentation,
+
+00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:15.640
+to do anything here. Thanks for all of you
+
+00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:17.080
+that I could be a part of it.
+
+00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.380
+I have to admit it also.
+
+00:40:21.020 --> 00:40:21.520
+So thank you all. And yeah,
+
+00:40:22.540 --> 00:40:23.040
+nothing to say probably.
+
+00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:25.840
+[Speaker 1]: And I also want to send the thanks to Flowy
+
+00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:27.380
+for, you know, stepping in.
+
+00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:29.480
+We kind of like throw this on you like at the
+
+00:40:31.560 --> 00:40:31.720
+last second, but Flowy actually stepped in
+
+00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:34.160
+and hosted graciously a couple of the talks
+
+00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:35.140
+on the Dev track today.
+
+00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:37.200
+So, which I think went very well.
+
+00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:38.980
+So congrats and thank you.
+
+00:40:39.720 --> 00:40:40.220
+[Speaker 6]: Thank you.
+
+00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:41.920
+[Speaker 4]: Speaking of which we were not monsters.
+
+00:40:43.420 --> 00:40:43.660
+We kindly asked Floey yesterday because
+
+00:40:44.540 --> 00:40:44.760
+everything was going so well.
+
+00:40:45.520 --> 00:40:45.600
+And now we can say it,
+
+00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:47.240
+you know, I can say things are going well.
+
+00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:48.880
+Usually it's a bad thing when you're doing a
+
+00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:50.740
+broadcast to say things are going well right
+
+00:40:53.080 --> 00:40:53.300
+now because it tends to backfires at some
+
+00:40:56.980 --> 00:40:57.480
+[Speaker 3]: Hours of notice, hours of notice.
+
+00:40:58.900 --> 00:40:59.400
+That, that's planning.
+
+00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:02.920
+[Speaker 4]: point. But yesterday- So hours of notice,
+
+00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:05.340
+Flowy didn't sleep all that much because we
+
+00:41:06.500 --> 00:41:06.980
+tasked him with hosting,
+
+00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:08.720
+so he was turning in his bed all night
+
+00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.460
+thinking, oh, I'm going to host MaxCons.
+
+00:41:13.660 --> 00:41:13.860
+But Flowy, you did a wonderful job and I am
+
+00:41:15.720 --> 00:41:15.940
+so glad that not only you were able to join
+
+00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:17.900
+us again this year, but that also you were
+
+00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:20.140
+able to host. Because last year,
+
+00:41:20.900 --> 00:41:21.140
+had we asked you to host,
+
+00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:22.320
+you would have said no.
+
+00:41:25.120 --> 00:41:25.580
+First time we asked you this year was yes,
+
+00:41:27.100 --> 00:41:27.600
+but give me some time to think about it.
+
+00:41:30.100 --> 00:41:30.600
+[Speaker 6]: Next year it is yes completely.
+
+00:41:32.780 --> 00:41:32.940
+[Speaker 4]: If we've done a good job,
+
+00:41:33.560 --> 00:41:34.060
+it will be yes directly.
+
+00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.080
+All right, so since we are at the end of the
+
+00:41:41.140 --> 00:41:41.320
+thankings and I did say europe team needs to
+
+00:41:43.580 --> 00:41:43.700
+go to bed in about 12 minutes that leaves us
+
+00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:46.440
+about 12 minutes to try to answer as many
+
+00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:48.340
+points as you'd like to raise.
+
+00:41:50.640 --> 00:41:50.940
+Sasha, I think the Q&A room is still open
+
+00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:53.100
+because we are technically still in the Emacs
+
+00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:54.020
+conference room currently.
+
+00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:56.660
+So, if you... We're going to put the link
+
+00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.000
+again if you need to find it.
+
+00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:00.300
+Otherwise, scroll up and find the 1 on there.
+
+00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:04.900
+[Speaker 0]: I think I can change the redirect.
+
+00:42:07.240 --> 00:42:07.740
+Maybe. I will go figure this out.
+
+00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:09.100
+Keep talking in the background.
+
+00:42:12.160 --> 00:42:12.280
+[Speaker 4]: Right. So, whilst we figure this out in the
+
+00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:13.860
+background, it would be nice if you could
+
+00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:15.040
+join us and ask questions,
+
+00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:16.020
+either by dropping them.
+
+00:42:18.080 --> 00:42:18.340
+I see plenty of people have already left some
+
+00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:19.840
+comments. We have 2 places,
+
+00:42:21.820 --> 00:42:22.240
+right now it's more about a chitchatting
+
+00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:23.360
+about the end of the conference.
+
+00:42:24.160 --> 00:42:24.660
+If you've got general feedback,
+
+00:42:26.160 --> 00:42:26.400
+we've mentioned it at the top,
+
+00:42:28.580 --> 00:42:28.780
+but if you want to write your general
+
+00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:31.080
+feedback here, it will find its way at some
+
+00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:33.160
+point in the years of the relevant people who
+
+00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:34.280
+can make things change.
+
+00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.040
+So don't worry too much about where you put
+
+00:42:37.120 --> 00:42:37.540
+your feedback, it'll be fine.
+
+00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:40.440
+But now, how about we start reading some of
+
+00:42:42.700 --> 00:42:43.080
+the notes that people have said or questions
+
+00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:43.260
+that
+
+00:42:47.094 --> 00:42:47.151
+[Speaker 3]: have been asked. So here's 1 for Amin.
+
+00:42:48.460 --> 00:42:48.820
+Do you have any stats on how many people
+
+00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:52.700
+watched for an IRC and BBB over the 2 days?
+
+00:42:58.140 --> 00:42:58.620
+[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, so I guess for IceCast,
+
+00:43:00.040 --> 00:43:00.540
+which I can answer more readily,
+
+00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:04.260
+I think yesterday we were averaging around
+
+00:43:08.120 --> 00:43:08.620
+240, 250 concurrent viewers at a time.
+
+00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:13.260
+And today, so today it varied.
+
+00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:16.740
+I think the maximum was again like around 200
+
+00:43:19.600 --> 00:43:19.820
+to 20-ish with the average being more around
+
+00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:25.460
+180, 190 viewers. We've had a lot of hits to
+
+00:43:28.700 --> 00:43:29.180
+the actual web pages for the Emacs Conf Wiki
+
+00:43:31.720 --> 00:43:31.960
+or the pad, which are all being served on 1
+
+00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:35.140
+server. I pulled some numbers.
+
+00:43:36.140 --> 00:43:36.640
+I'm not sure if they're correct.
+
+00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:38.900
+So I'm like a little bit hesitant to discuss
+
+00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:41.980
+them. Safe to say they're easily in the tens
+
+00:43:44.380 --> 00:43:44.580
+of thousands, maybe in the hundreds of
+
+00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:48.420
+thousands of total visits over the past,
+
+00:43:52.540 --> 00:43:53.040
+[Speaker 0]: Maybe the pad makes a lot of small requests.
+
+00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:54.400
+[Speaker 1]: I guess, 48 hours. Right,
+
+00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:57.200
+okay. So, yeah, that's why I'm hesitant to
+
+00:43:59.240 --> 00:43:59.380
+say. But yeah, easily in the thousands or
+
+00:44:01.860 --> 00:44:02.020
+[Speaker 3]: You know
+
+00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:03.260
+[Speaker 4]: who you are anyway, the crowd,
+
+00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:04.240
+you know how many you are,
+
+00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:05.840
+you do not need exact numbers
+
+00:44:08.720 --> 00:44:09.220
+[Speaker 1]: tens of thousands. Yeah,
+
+00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:11.200
+so I don't have the exact numbers but I guess
+
+00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:13.460
+it's always kind of fun to maybe try to pull
+
+00:44:15.700 --> 00:44:15.840
+some numbers and look at it that way but you
+
+00:44:18.080 --> 00:44:18.580
+know of course we all know that what we do,
+
+00:44:19.720 --> 00:44:20.220
+every single person counts.
+
+00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:24.660
+So I don't know, trying to look at turning
+
+00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:28.400
+people into abstract numbers isn't,
+
+00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.820
+I don't know, inspiring to me very much,
+
+00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:32.340
+but it's cool. So.
+
+00:44:36.020 --> 00:44:36.140
+[Speaker 4]: All right. So how about we go into the
+
+00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:38.140
+questions. So Sasha is now in the viewport
+
+00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:39.780
+where we can see some questions.
+
+00:44:41.200 --> 00:44:41.700
+So how about we take some of them.
+
+00:44:43.900 --> 00:44:44.060
+I can read them or if anyone of the
+
+00:44:45.020 --> 00:44:45.520
+organizers wants to do this,
+
+00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:47.040
+feel free, especially those who haven't
+
+00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:48.540
+talked to a whole lot this year.
+
+00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:53.480
+Cohen, do you want to try it?
+
+00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:55.260
+[Speaker 3]: I didn't make my motive clear.
+
+00:44:59.220 --> 00:44:59.500
+I did and I'm done. I took the first
+
+00:45:01.120 --> 00:45:01.320
+question, I picked the bottom question off
+
+00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:03.120
+the list because I knew exactly who it was
+
+00:45:05.140 --> 00:45:05.500
+going for. The person who wants to answer or
+
+00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:07.580
+direct the next question is welcome.
+
+00:45:10.520 --> 00:45:10.760
+Sorry, I could have given a little better
+
+00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:11.680
+stage direction there.
+
+00:45:13.660 --> 00:45:14.160
+I'm not prepared to answer how many emaxers
+
+00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:16.560
+are from Nordic countries other than to say
+
+00:45:17.680 --> 00:45:18.180
+definitely yes and several.
+
+00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:22.080
+And I haven't looked close enough at the
+
+00:45:22.580 --> 00:45:23.080
+suggestion yet.
+
+00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:27.720
+[Speaker 4]: Right, okay. I can take the question about
+
+00:45:30.020 --> 00:45:30.060
+the BBB limitations. So it's the second 1,
+
+00:45:31.560 --> 00:45:32.060
+the red 1. Small suggestion,
+
+00:45:33.120 --> 00:45:33.520
+likely out of your control,
+
+00:45:36.340 --> 00:45:36.660
+but anyway, the blue button seems to work
+
+00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:38.560
+very well, but it would be a bit more
+
+00:45:40.680 --> 00:45:40.840
+watchable if the webcam frames were lined up
+
+00:45:42.660 --> 00:45:42.920
+vertically on 1 side, because it would allow
+
+00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:44.920
+the screen share frames to be larger and
+
+00:45:47.080 --> 00:45:47.560
+would make much better use of the viewable
+
+00:45:49.740 --> 00:45:50.240
+space. Maybe worth a bug report to upstream.
+
+00:45:53.080 --> 00:45:53.420
+And I agree, BBB has been really good.
+
+00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900
+Amine, did you want to say something?
+
+00:45:55.120 --> 00:45:55.240
+[Speaker 3]: I'm going
+
+00:45:56.760 --> 00:45:56.880
+[Speaker 1]: to continue and then I'll add something at
+
+00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.460
+the end.
+
+00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:00.100
+[Speaker 4]: Okay, sure. So BBB has been really good for
+
+00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:04.940
+us. It allows us to have many parallel rooms
+
+00:46:07.700 --> 00:46:07.800
+which are all recording service side at the
+
+00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:10.120
+same time. And it's wonderful for us because
+
+00:46:11.260 --> 00:46:11.580
+we can gather. At some point,
+
+00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:13.820
+I think last year, we had 4 concurrent talks
+
+00:46:15.220 --> 00:46:15.360
+being recorded because people were just so
+
+00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:17.540
+interested in what was going on in rooms.
+
+00:46:19.040 --> 00:46:19.540
+And you know, we only,
+
+00:46:21.660 --> 00:46:22.160
+like this year, the co-organizers,
+
+00:46:23.720 --> 00:46:23.940
+it's the 5 people you see in a room
+
+00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:26.880
+currently. And if we had all of us to be in a
+
+00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:28.580
+separate room, having to record on the
+
+00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:29.640
+machine, it wouldn't work.
+
+00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:32.280
+So we are able to demultiply the amount of
+
+00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:34.060
+content that we produce thanks to BBB,
+
+00:46:37.540 --> 00:46:37.700
+but sadly, we are also quite limited by the
+
+00:46:39.560 --> 00:46:39.720
+interface of BBB. Another problem that is
+
+00:46:43.860 --> 00:46:44.360
+dear to me is that audio tends to be fairly
+
+00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:46.740
+bad at some points depending on the speakers
+
+00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:50.580
+because BBB has really funky audio correction
+
+00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:51.820
+stuff going in the background,
+
+00:46:52.540 --> 00:46:52.900
+and sometimes it works,
+
+00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.260
+sometimes it doesn't work,
+
+00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:55.980
+and especially on my machine,
+
+00:46:58.320 --> 00:46:58.480
+the specs are above in the document if you're
+
+00:47:02.040 --> 00:47:02.220
+interested, but BBB and OBS do not play well
+
+00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:04.820
+at all. You might have heard me speaking with
+
+00:47:06.120 --> 00:47:06.500
+some clicks in my voice at some point.
+
+00:47:07.600 --> 00:47:08.100
+That's another problem of BBB.
+
+00:47:09.240 --> 00:47:09.520
+Anyway, I mean, you wanted to add something
+
+00:47:09.720 --> 00:47:10.220
+as well.
+
+00:47:14.060 --> 00:47:14.340
+[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, I kind of empathize and also
+
+00:47:17.220 --> 00:47:17.640
+emphasize the problems with audio on BBB
+
+00:47:19.860 --> 00:47:20.360
+sometimes, but about the specific suggestion
+
+00:47:22.540 --> 00:47:22.760
+here of like lighting things up at least
+
+00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:24.960
+visually, I think that's like much more
+
+00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:27.440
+doable even if you don't open a bug upstream.
+
+00:47:30.140 --> 00:47:30.520
+I believe the Free Software Foundation for
+
+00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:31.860
+their LibrePlanet conference,
+
+00:47:33.740 --> 00:47:34.200
+either last year or the year before,
+
+00:47:36.500 --> 00:47:36.760
+they had some custom, like clients signed
+
+00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:38.500
+into browser, custom CSS,
+
+00:47:40.520 --> 00:47:40.720
+where it would do exactly something like
+
+00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:44.820
+that. It would like enlarge the shared screen
+
+00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:47.000
+on the 1 side and then stack up all of the
+
+00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:48.280
+webcam feeds on 1 side.
+
+00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:50.440
+So we might be able to use something like
+
+00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:50.940
+that.
+
+00:47:53.040 --> 00:47:53.540
+[Speaker 3]: So I'll tack on to that.
+
+00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:56.880
+And now I feel like a heel as soon as I
+
+00:47:59.340 --> 00:47:59.500
+opened my mouth, because I think I almost get
+
+00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:01.720
+the sense Floyd wants to jump in here and
+
+00:48:03.680 --> 00:48:03.840
+we're all talking, everyone except Sasha who
+
+00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:06.660
+actually wrote OBS, you know,
+
+00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:10.920
+the OBS WebSocket plugin that is probably the
+
+00:48:12.100 --> 00:48:12.600
+answer to all the different questions
+
+00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:13.480
+everyone is bringing up.
+
+00:48:15.060 --> 00:48:15.420
+So I guess I'll leave my input at that And
+
+00:48:16.680 --> 00:48:16.800
+Chloe, did you have anything to say,
+
+00:48:17.720 --> 00:48:18.220
+or can we pick on Sasha?
+
+00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:20.960
+[Speaker 6]: Nothing to say.
+
+00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:25.320
+[Speaker 0]: I need to update the OBS WebSocket plugin for
+
+00:48:27.260 --> 00:48:27.440
+the protocol change, because I think the
+
+00:48:29.040 --> 00:48:29.540
+protocol change was from 4 to 5.
+
+00:48:32.080 --> 00:48:32.300
+It's 1 of those things that I haven't gotten
+
+00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:35.580
+[Speaker 1]: Cool. But
+
+00:48:37.120 --> 00:48:37.280
+[Speaker 0]: around to. yeah, so we'll try to solve it in
+
+00:48:41.240 --> 00:48:41.380
+CSS. So if I can tinker with the CSS or if
+
+00:48:44.160 --> 00:48:44.380
+somebody else would like to volunteer to move
+
+00:48:45.720 --> 00:48:46.220
+things around, then that would be fantastic
+
+00:48:48.040 --> 00:48:48.540
+because front-end should be things.
+
+00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:53.600
+Okay, oh, what order of magnitude hours do
+
+00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:55.520
+you each of you think you devote to the
+
+00:48:58.260 --> 00:48:58.580
+conference yearly? I have I expected someone
+
+00:48:59.540 --> 00:49:00.040
+would ask this question.
+
+00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:08.120
+So I have I have my the past 11 years of time
+
+00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:11.400
+analysis. This is my Emacs category,
+
+00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:13.280
+so it also includes Emacs news.
+
+00:49:15.660 --> 00:49:16.160
+So this is my Emacs hours by month and year.
+
+00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:18.420
+So you can see last year,
+
+00:49:21.140 --> 00:49:21.640
+it spiked up a lot. But this year,
+
+00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:23.440
+it has taken less time.
+
+00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:26.760
+So last month, it was about 93 hours.
+
+00:49:29.020 --> 00:49:29.520
+And the month before that was just about 87
+
+00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:31.880
+hours of prep. And this actually includes
+
+00:49:33.240 --> 00:49:33.740
+things like captioning and,
+
+00:49:36.260 --> 00:49:36.340
+and coordination. And then you can see a
+
+00:49:38.560 --> 00:49:38.940
+little bit of time here like the EMAX news
+
+00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:42.440
+and and harvesting q&a and adding chapter
+
+00:49:43.780 --> 00:49:44.280
+index indices and things like that.
+
+00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:48.460
+So I, I like it, it's it's my form of fun.
+
+00:49:50.540 --> 00:49:50.640
+And Otherwise, I'm mostly just,
+
+00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:53.460
+you know, helping the kiddo go to play dates
+
+00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:54.820
+and carrying things around.
+
+00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:57.500
+And, you know, so this is the stuff that I do
+
+00:49:58.260 --> 00:49:58.760
+to keep my brain happy.
+
+00:50:00.060 --> 00:50:00.320
+And if you're wondering,
+
+00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:01.860
+okay, well, do you sleep?
+
+00:50:03.520 --> 00:50:03.820
+That's the next question I expected people
+
+00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:05.060
+ask. The answer is yes,
+
+00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:06.660
+we still actually do manage to sleep,
+
+00:50:09.640 --> 00:50:09.800
+or at least I do. Less so now that I have a
+
+00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:11.260
+kid, this is like 2016,
+
+00:50:13.100 --> 00:50:13.260
+had a kiddo, and then suddenly much less
+
+00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:14.800
+sleep, but still a reasonable amount of
+
+00:50:16.780 --> 00:50:17.280
+sleep. So Emacs stuff happens,
+
+00:50:19.600 --> 00:50:20.100
+I can still sleep, and it's a lot of fun.
+
+00:50:23.260 --> 00:50:23.760
+[Speaker 4]: Now that's data for you folks.
+
+00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:27.460
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, we can't top that at all.
+
+00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:30.820
+[Speaker 0]: It's a blog post also,
+
+00:50:30.820 --> 00:50:31.320
+yeah.
+
+00:50:33.160 --> 00:50:33.340
+[Speaker 4]: Especially, you start like this,
+
+00:50:36.540 --> 00:50:37.040
+how do you expect all of us to say anything
+
+00:50:38.680 --> 00:50:38.740
+after this? Whatever we say is not going to
+
+00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:40.680
+be backed up by data, it's not going to be as
+
+00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:42.520
+many hours, and it's not going to be as
+
+00:50:43.180 --> 00:50:43.680
+qualitative in general.
+
+00:50:53.640 --> 00:50:53.900
+I can remark on something because for me it's
+
+00:50:56.040 --> 00:50:56.540
+my fourth year helping to organize EmacsConf
+
+00:50:59.280 --> 00:50:59.780
+and there's a definite change this year.
+
+00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:02.980
+I did spend, usually I get into EmacsConf
+
+00:51:05.640 --> 00:51:06.040
+mode in late September when I start worrying
+
+00:51:07.900 --> 00:51:08.080
+about the CFP, the call for proposal is
+
+00:51:09.720 --> 00:51:10.080
+finishing, and then we need to start running
+
+00:51:12.580 --> 00:51:12.780
+after speakers to secure the proposals to
+
+00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:14.360
+make sure, oh, can you do this?
+
+00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:16.680
+Can you do maybe a 10-minute format instead
+
+00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:17.560
+of a 20-minute format,
+
+00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:19.260
+you know, all this jazzy stuff.
+
+00:51:21.820 --> 00:51:22.020
+And usually it kind of looks like Sasha for
+
+00:51:22.940 --> 00:51:23.400
+me in terms of involvement,
+
+00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:25.400
+or at least it did for the previous year.
+
+00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:29.300
+But this year, now that I've been gainfully
+
+00:51:30.220 --> 00:51:30.720
+employed as a software developer,
+
+00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:33.900
+I found it much harder to find the time to
+
+00:51:36.500 --> 00:51:36.660
+invest into MaxComp. But 1 of the things that
+
+00:51:39.520 --> 00:51:39.800
+allowed me to still stay efficient at my day
+
+00:51:42.100 --> 00:51:42.260
+job is the fact that I knew that Sasha and
+
+00:51:43.680 --> 00:51:44.180
+all the work that we did in previous years
+
+00:51:46.240 --> 00:51:46.560
+would come to help us organize this year's
+
+00:51:48.160 --> 00:51:48.560
+conference. And I'm not kidding,
+
+00:51:49.900 --> 00:51:50.140
+this year, I've been keeping an eye,
+
+00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:51.480
+obviously, and we've been chatting with all
+
+00:51:53.860 --> 00:51:54.340
+the organizers, but it's mostly been Sasha
+
+00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:57.080
+holding the fort from the end of the CFP in
+
+00:52:00.060 --> 00:52:00.560
+September to right about end of November.
+
+00:52:02.220 --> 00:52:02.720
+So I'll use the opportunity,
+
+00:52:04.780 --> 00:52:05.160
+as well my fellow co-organizers will,
+
+00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:07.480
+to thank you Sasha for putting so much time
+
+00:52:09.720 --> 00:52:09.900
+and energy into this. Not only Sasha from
+
+00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:11.920
+this year, but also Sasha from last year,
+
+00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:13.340
+and last year, and last year.
+
+00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:20.160
+And I will not be able to give you a figure
+
+00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:21.000
+of how much time it takes.
+
+00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:23.220
+I can tell you that the 2 days of Emacs Con
+
+00:52:28.180 --> 00:52:28.380
+are a bloody marathon because we cannot share
+
+00:52:31.060 --> 00:52:31.220
+our screens with you, but Sasha has given you
+
+00:52:32.220 --> 00:52:32.580
+a little bit of pointers about,
+
+00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:34.580
+you know, how much stuff we need to monitor.
+
+00:52:36.560 --> 00:52:36.820
+Sasha just switches constantly between
+
+00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:39.320
+workspaces. I just put everything on 1
+
+00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:41.900
+workspace and my screen looks absolutely
+
+00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:44.920
+mental. And then I wonder why my microphone
+
+00:52:46.020 --> 00:52:46.520
+is clipping on BVB, I suppose.
+
+00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:47.540
+All right, that's all for me.
+
+00:52:48.900 --> 00:52:49.040
+Anyone wants to say anything about how much
+
+00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.420
+time it takes? Sasha, please.
+
+00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:53.000
+[Speaker 0]: I have a nice setup this year because I
+
+00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:55.960
+actually have a Matthew Lent donated a
+
+00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:57.660
+computer to me that can handle the big
+
+00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:00.420
+monitor and I'm stealing my husband's big
+
+00:53:01.100 --> 00:53:01.280
+monitor over there. See,
+
+00:53:02.240 --> 00:53:02.740
+So this is my setup today.
+
+00:53:05.600 --> 00:53:06.020
+It's got like conference stuff on my laptop
+
+00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:09.240
+and then just IOC on the other big screen and
+
+00:53:10.640 --> 00:53:11.000
+the 480p so I can see,
+
+00:53:12.340 --> 00:53:12.840
+I can make sure it doesn't fall down.
+
+00:53:14.900 --> 00:53:15.400
+Yes, so I have a nice setup today.
+
+00:53:22.260 --> 00:53:22.400
+[Speaker 4]: Anyone wants to comment about how much time
+
+00:53:24.160 --> 00:53:24.360
+it takes for them to organize the MaxCon for
+
+00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:25.940
+2, you know, including everything,
+
+00:53:26.580 --> 00:53:27.080
+be it the brainstorming,
+
+00:53:28.940 --> 00:53:29.440
+the answering volunteers and stuff like this?
+
+00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:31.640
+Or we can move to another question,
+
+00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.300
+of course.
+
+00:53:34.600 --> 00:53:34.960
+[Speaker 1]: I mean, I know for myself,
+
+00:53:36.180 --> 00:53:36.580
+I kind of dropped the ball this year,
+
+00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:39.440
+somewhat unintentionally or unintentionally.
+
+00:53:41.640 --> 00:53:42.040
+Well, yeah, I didn't have any other choice,
+
+00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:44.780
+basically, at least in like September through
+
+00:53:46.940 --> 00:53:47.440
+like early November or mid November.
+
+00:53:51.100 --> 00:53:51.500
+But I think like, it sort of differs,
+
+00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:52.820
+I guess, from year to year.
+
+00:53:53.520 --> 00:53:54.020
+Sometimes life happens,
+
+00:53:57.900 --> 00:53:58.400
+and no matter how much you would love to put
+
+00:53:59.540 --> 00:53:59.880
+a ton of time into something,
+
+00:54:01.620 --> 00:54:01.820
+you just can't. And maybe next year you can
+
+00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:04.540
+do a lot more. So I'm optimistic I'll be able
+
+00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:07.260
+to put in much more time into things for
+
+00:54:09.580 --> 00:54:10.080
+EmacsConf next year, but that's just me.
+
+00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:12.560
+[Speaker 4]: I just want to say something before Robin
+
+00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:14.400
+drops in. Sasha, go please first.
+
+00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:19.120
+[Speaker 0]: And I think people shouldn't like feel bad
+
+00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:20.780
+about having those. I think designing
+
+00:54:24.120 --> 00:54:24.280
+conference systems or processes so that they
+
+00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:27.300
+can take advantage of little pockets of time
+
+00:54:30.460 --> 00:54:30.680
+is the way to go. I love the fact that we now
+
+00:54:33.200 --> 00:54:33.360
+have a system where hosts can show up on the
+
+00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:35.680
+day of and just rock it,
+
+00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:37.380
+right? So this is great.
+
+00:54:41.580 --> 00:54:42.080
+It is good that we can get by with less time
+
+00:54:43.940 --> 00:54:44.120
+throughout the process and just take
+
+00:54:45.660 --> 00:54:46.160
+advantage of whatever time people have.
+
+00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:47.180
+Whether it's, you know,
+
+00:54:49.120 --> 00:54:49.280
+they've got 2 hours, they want to caption a
+
+00:54:51.560 --> 00:54:52.040
+talk, that sort of stuff is already totally
+
+00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540
+awesome.
+
+00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:57.980
+[Speaker 3]: And yeah, you both, thank you.
+
+00:55:00.820 --> 00:55:01.020
+Yeah, you both stole my Thunder and then put
+
+00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:04.120
+a quarterback in me. I couldn't agree more
+
+00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:05.280
+with everything you said.
+
+00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:09.220
+That's something that just typifies what is
+
+00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:10.860
+amazing about this conference,
+
+00:55:12.340 --> 00:55:12.840
+right? It's a kind of accessibility,
+
+00:55:17.120 --> 00:55:17.500
+isn't it? Having some work I can give you
+
+00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:19.880
+that helps you give back to your community
+
+00:55:21.340 --> 00:55:21.840
+that is at your level,
+
+00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:23.800
+that fits your time budget,
+
+00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:27.120
+that is something that you're willing to go
+
+00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:28.780
+care about because it intersects,
+
+00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:31.780
+you know, the world you live in in some
+
+00:55:34.240 --> 00:55:34.540
+practical way and therefore you can make time
+
+00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:37.860
+for it. We all live in a lot of different
+
+00:55:40.520 --> 00:55:40.600
+trenches and making them intersect is 1 of
+
+00:55:42.500 --> 00:55:43.000
+the things Emacs does in a technical way
+
+00:55:43.820 --> 00:55:44.020
+[Speaker 5]: and
+
+00:55:47.260 --> 00:55:47.580
+[Speaker 3]: through this conference at least in a very
+
+00:55:51.100 --> 00:55:51.340
+community way. Okay, and it brings me back
+
+00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:52.680
+also on the OBS front.
+
+00:55:54.080 --> 00:55:54.240
+And I think that's what really excited me
+
+00:55:56.260 --> 00:55:56.580
+too. When I think about the potential that's
+
+00:55:59.440 --> 00:55:59.940
+out there and getting a bunch of people
+
+00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:02.080
+looking at the work you've already done with
+
+00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:04.440
+OBS WebSocket and thinking about,
+
+00:56:06.660 --> 00:56:06.960
+you know, oh, we want more timers that count
+
+00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.340
+things down and we want each organizer to be
+
+00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:11.040
+able to have a little palette of them,
+
+00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:12.940
+some of which are gonna be handed to you by
+
+00:56:14.620 --> 00:56:14.760
+the conference director and some of which you
+
+00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:17.240
+can add yourself because they help you and
+
+00:56:19.600 --> 00:56:20.020
+that's right. And, you know,
+
+00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:22.120
+have, you know, keeping things really fast
+
+00:56:24.120 --> 00:56:24.620
+and loose so we can make the artistic
+
+00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:27.340
+decisions on the fly that make our conference
+
+00:56:30.340 --> 00:56:30.840
+what it is, but then making,
+
+00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:33.740
+you know, a simple automated tool chain that
+
+00:56:36.380 --> 00:56:36.560
+anyone can learn and that we know how to
+
+00:56:37.700 --> 00:56:38.200
+execute the steps of manually.
+
+00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:41.280
+That's the actual design pattern that you've
+
+00:56:42.980 --> 00:56:43.480
+implemented here that's working so well.
+
+00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:47.580
+So the
+
+00:56:50.080 --> 00:56:50.540
+[Speaker 4]: 1 thing I wanted to ask about Amin saying,
+
+00:56:51.600 --> 00:56:52.100
+oh, I've dropped the ball this year.
+
+00:56:53.600 --> 00:56:53.940
+Amin's, just to be clear with everyone,
+
+00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:55.520
+Amin's definition of dropping the ball is
+
+00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:57.360
+securing a sponsorship with the FSF.
+
+00:56:58.680 --> 00:56:59.180
+So that's dropping the ball for you.
+
+00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:02.720
+[Speaker 3]: Well attending a weekly meeting,
+
+00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:04.640
+We take 1 week off a month where we
+
+00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:08.720
+coordinate infrastructure issues between this
+
+00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:13.440
+and other FSF supported projects using quote
+
+00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:14.820
+unquote GNU infrastructure.
+
+00:57:16.860 --> 00:57:17.360
+That's kind of a, GNU is really an umbrella
+
+00:57:19.220 --> 00:57:19.720
+term once you get kind of close to it.
+
+00:57:22.220 --> 00:57:22.400
+You know, it's like GNU is all of the
+
+00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:25.240
+volunteers helping with this vision we have
+
+00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:26.340
+of user rights.
+
+00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:31.560
+[Speaker 4]: 1 last thing I wanted to add about how much
+
+00:57:32.220 --> 00:57:32.480
+time we spend on this.
+
+00:57:33.900 --> 00:57:34.400
+It's just the fact that we've experimented
+
+00:57:36.180 --> 00:57:36.380
+over the 4 years I've been part of this.
+
+00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:38.760
+You know, the first year we had so many
+
+00:57:40.720 --> 00:57:40.840
+meetings because we thought this would be the
+
+00:57:42.640 --> 00:57:42.800
+way to know 1 another and this would be the
+
+00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:44.780
+way to create qualitative notes.
+
+00:57:46.520 --> 00:57:46.560
+And we've come back to this.
+
+00:57:48.180 --> 00:57:48.340
+[Speaker 3]: That is what I saw. I can't help but
+
+00:57:49.940 --> 00:57:50.440
+interrupt you again. This is all I do.
+
+00:57:52.080 --> 00:57:52.580
+Leo This is why I keep off the microphone
+
+00:57:54.060 --> 00:57:54.440
+until the last 20 minutes of the conference
+
+00:57:56.580 --> 00:57:56.760
+once everybody already wants to hang up Then
+
+00:57:58.940 --> 00:57:59.080
+I know you'll be honest with me But I have to
+
+00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:02.240
+say when I looked at that table of data all I
+
+00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:05.440
+saw was 200 hours of Sasha's life that she
+
+00:58:06.940 --> 00:58:07.240
+spent talking to the, you know,
+
+00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:08.680
+all many of us were involved.
+
+00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:11.320
+It's not just the 4 or 5 of us that,
+
+00:58:13.160 --> 00:58:13.460
+you know, that have done this last 2 years
+
+00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:14.940
+convention, right? It's,
+
+00:58:17.120 --> 00:58:17.260
+you know, there's been many people that have
+
+00:58:19.340 --> 00:58:19.780
+come in, shared wise thoughts,
+
+00:58:22.120 --> 00:58:22.420
+helping us form the, I don't know,
+
+00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:24.620
+ethos or all of the things that we're
+
+00:58:26.680 --> 00:58:27.180
+carrying forward into 2024.
+
+00:58:31.460 --> 00:58:31.960
+Sorry, Leo.
+
+00:58:32.640 --> 00:58:32.880
+[Speaker 1]: No, no,
+
+00:58:33.560 --> 00:58:33.940
+[Speaker 4]: you're fine, You're fine.
+
+00:58:35.980 --> 00:58:36.060
+I mean, you pretty much continued with what I
+
+00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:38.000
+was going to talk about.
+
+00:58:41.040 --> 00:58:41.540
+So I'm looking at the time and I've already
+
+00:58:44.640 --> 00:58:44.700
+extended by 5 minutes the amount of time I
+
+00:58:46.640 --> 00:58:46.800
+was supposed to stay and Flowy is looking at
+
+00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:50.660
+me with very teary eyes because he's thinking
+
+00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:52.280
+about the meeting he's going to have at 9am
+
+00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:53.940
+tomorrow, as will I by the way.
+
+00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:54.920
+Yeah, don't you have to
+
+00:58:56.380 --> 00:58:56.760
+[Speaker 3]: be commuting like right now Flowy?
+
+00:58:58.200 --> 00:58:58.700
+I mean aren't you supposed to be...
+
+00:59:01.560 --> 00:59:01.840
+I hope you get to sleep before work.
+
+00:59:04.820 --> 00:59:04.960
+Thank you so much for your awesome work this
+
+00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:05.460
+year.
+
+00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:07.680
+[Speaker 6]: I mean, I didn't do so much at the Emojis
+
+00:59:09.100 --> 00:59:09.600
+Conference, so I'm just here like from
+
+00:59:13.180 --> 00:59:13.320
+Friday. At first, I was looking at the
+
+00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:15.060
+website, which talks we're having,
+
+00:59:17.860 --> 00:59:18.040
+So it's all fine. So maybe next year or the
+
+00:59:19.740 --> 00:59:19.960
+coming year, I can do a little bit more
+
+00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:20.460
+privacy.
+
+00:59:23.260 --> 00:59:23.760
+[Speaker 4]: A little more, like again,
+
+00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:26.420
+like with Amin, Flowy's definition of doing,
+
+00:59:30.240 --> 00:59:30.400
+not having done much is hosting 1 of many of
+
+00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:34.240
+the Dev talks. So you could be kind of
+
+00:59:35.680 --> 00:59:36.140
+worried about it. All right,
+
+00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:38.720
+folks, considering the question that we have
+
+00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:40.640
+right now, we still see people adding
+
+00:59:42.260 --> 00:59:42.620
+questions, but I think we are all pretty
+
+00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:45.060
+tired and we need to get on with the rest of
+
+00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:46.780
+our weekends or nights.
+
+00:59:49.740 --> 00:59:50.080
+So do I go into parting words now everyone?
+
+00:59:50.720 --> 00:59:51.220
+Are we okay with this?
+
+00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:55.680
+I'll take this for a yes.
+
+00:59:56.780 --> 00:59:57.280
+I'll ask Sasha, yeah?
+
+01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:01.080
+[Speaker 0]: Oh I think I basically have until the kiddo
+
+01:00:03.560 --> 01:00:03.760
+yells at me to come for dinner so I can hang
+
+01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:04.940
+out with people after.
+
+01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:09.740
+and do the wrapping up.
+
+01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:10.080
+[Speaker 3]: But I
+
+01:00:10.080 --> 01:00:10.440
+[Speaker 4]: All right, splendid. Go ahead know,
+
+01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:12.600
+right, I'll do the wrapping up for the
+
+01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:14.040
+perhaps the stream. We might leave it up
+
+01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:16.700
+because there's no impetus for us to close
+
+01:00:20.100 --> 01:00:20.280
+it. But at least to officially close while
+
+01:00:22.340 --> 01:00:22.840
+we're still there, EmacsConf 2023,
+
+01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:25.900
+I will have again to thank everyone,
+
+01:00:28.200 --> 01:00:28.700
+all the speakers, all my co-organizers for
+
+01:00:31.020 --> 01:00:31.160
+making this possible. You've seen all the
+
+01:00:32.120 --> 01:00:32.260
+care that we put into it,
+
+01:00:34.900 --> 01:00:35.320
+and we are glad every year that all this work
+
+01:00:37.940 --> 01:00:38.440
+is doing something in terms of community
+
+01:00:41.420 --> 01:00:41.600
+building, in terms of leading more people to
+
+01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:43.380
+join us every year as speakers,
+
+01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:45.540
+or just join us as a user of Emacs.
+
+01:00:49.940 --> 01:00:50.100
+And it's always a pleasure to organize the
+
+01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640
+conference, to host it,
+
+01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:53.620
+and to work with everyone in the room
+
+01:00:56.840 --> 01:00:57.340
+currently. Corwin and I are constantly joking
+
+01:00:59.640 --> 01:01:00.140
+when we are backstage making jokes.
+
+01:01:03.540 --> 01:01:03.840
+I think it's Corwin we said last year during
+
+01:01:06.620 --> 01:01:06.900
+the closing remarks that there was no other
+
+01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:09.500
+place they'd rather be than in the backstage.
+
+01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:12.940
+And for me, even though many things have
+
+01:01:15.040 --> 01:01:15.360
+changed in my life over the last year,
+
+01:01:16.240 --> 01:01:16.740
+many good things have happened,
+
+01:01:19.640 --> 01:01:19.860
+it's good to come back to Emacs Cons as this
+
+01:01:22.080 --> 01:01:22.580
+milestone and say, oh yeah,
+
+01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:24.220
+I'm exactly where I want to be,
+
+01:01:25.320 --> 01:01:25.820
+with the people I want to be with,
+
+01:01:29.020 --> 01:01:29.220
+and I see myself and I cannot wait to see
+
+01:01:30.660 --> 01:01:31.080
+myself again in the situation next year.
+
+01:01:32.080 --> 01:01:32.580
+So thank you so much everyone.
+
+01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:34.640
+If you want to join us,
+
+01:01:36.100 --> 01:01:36.180
+ask questions, we'll still be here for a
+
+01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:37.640
+while. Floey might drop out,
+
+01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:40.020
+I might drop out, Sasha might drop out,
+
+01:01:41.600 --> 01:01:41.880
+but we'll be here to answer as many questions
+
+01:01:43.140 --> 01:01:43.640
+as you want for as long as we can.
+
+01:01:46.120 --> 01:01:46.280
+Bye bye everyone and let's get started with
+
+01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:47.300
+the after show now.
+
+01:01:51.540 --> 01:01:52.040
+[Speaker 0]: Bye Leo, bye Chloe! I'll drop out eventually
+
+01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:53.500
+when the kiddo yells at me.
+
+01:01:56.200 --> 01:01:56.440
+[Speaker 3]: I can't tell you how much fun this is,
+
+01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:58.440
+yeah. The way to remember what I said,
+
+01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:00.700
+Leo, it's 100% true. Oh man,
+
+01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:01.640
+turning off your lights,
+
+01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:03.220
+I'm doing it. I'm doing it too.
+
+01:02:04.600 --> 01:02:04.900
+Sorry y'all. Oh, yeah,
+
+01:02:05.380 --> 01:02:05.880
+bye-bye lights
+
+01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:10.760
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, that's every year that's how we finish
+
+01:02:12.340 --> 01:02:12.500
+we just turn off the the big lights that we
+
+01:02:14.240 --> 01:02:14.440
+have in our faces all the day especially the
+
+01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:14.940
+hosts
+
+01:02:19.120 --> 01:02:19.460
+[Speaker 3]: and Tell me if there's too much back chatter
+
+01:02:22.700 --> 01:02:23.200
+[Speaker 5]: get off my headphones,
+
+01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:24.720
+too, so I can
+
+01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:25.760
+[Speaker 3]: when I hear you in the room.
+
+01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:29.360
+Can I hear you now? Yeah.
+
+01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:32.460
+Is it feeding back pretty bad?
+
+01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:34.980
+[Speaker 1]: Hello? there is some echo.
+
+01:02:37.460 --> 01:02:37.960
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, there is some echo.
+
+01:02:41.200 --> 01:02:41.380
+[Speaker 3]: I think Okay. Fine. I can live with my
+
+01:02:42.160 --> 01:02:42.660
+headset a little longer.
+
+01:02:44.860 --> 01:02:45.360
+I give 1 ear a break at a time.
+
+01:02:47.140 --> 01:02:47.640
+[Speaker 1]: Thanks for your sacrifice.
+
+01:02:50.060 --> 01:02:50.560
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, well, you know, it's a small,
+
+01:02:53.080 --> 01:02:53.360
+small, small price to pay to get to smooth
+
+01:02:56.600 --> 01:02:56.820
+with y'all. Yeah, I was just looking at that
+
+01:02:58.580 --> 01:02:58.820
+chart and I was thinking about all of those
+
+01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:01.560
+meetings that we had like 18 months we were
+
+01:03:05.900 --> 01:03:06.400
+just on this death march to organize this and
+
+01:03:09.240 --> 01:03:09.520
+it's just such an amazing accomplishment that
+
+01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:12.140
+you you have here Sasha like I'm sorry to
+
+01:03:14.540 --> 01:03:14.760
+pick on you personally but the work that you
+
+01:03:16.680 --> 01:03:17.180
+put in keep being able to keep it the whole
+
+01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:19.260
+technical project in your mind,
+
+01:03:21.580 --> 01:03:21.760
+all the way down to presenting it at this
+
+01:03:24.100 --> 01:03:24.480
+year's conference and like kind of spoon
+
+01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:26.520
+feeding it to people that want to run off in
+
+01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:28.260
+their own damn direction and then handing
+
+01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:31.880
+them an org is the 1 that people keep bugging
+
+01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:33.940
+us about. So if you're looking for a project,
+
+01:03:37.340 --> 01:03:37.840
+here it is. Just really well done.
+
+01:03:43.540 --> 01:03:43.980
+I no longer feel like we wasted a lot of time
+
+01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:46.680
+there. I mean, you remember I enjoyed so much
+
+01:03:48.600 --> 01:03:49.100
+all of our check ins and all of that stuff.
+
+01:03:51.420 --> 01:03:51.920
+But we had so many ideas,
+
+01:03:53.480 --> 01:03:53.980
+you can imagine that I wondered,
+
+01:03:56.980 --> 01:03:57.160
+you know, I wondered if we should have had
+
+01:03:58.520 --> 01:03:58.700
+more focused meetings and all that.
+
+01:04:01.100 --> 01:04:01.360
+And I was glad when we stopped having like
+
+01:04:04.240 --> 01:04:04.540
+weekly meetings, because you know what I mean
+
+01:04:06.980 --> 01:04:07.120
+To keep this much power in the room once a
+
+01:04:08.160 --> 01:04:08.660
+week, it feels creepy.
+
+01:04:10.560 --> 01:04:11.060
+This much intellectual power.
+
+01:04:18.525 --> 01:04:18.820
+Anyway, that's it. I think that's it for me.
+
+01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:19.760
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, and I'll say, I mean,
+
+01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:22.540
+I can't obviously speak for Sash or anyone
+
+01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:24.940
+else. Yeah, the regular meetings were a
+
+01:04:26.980 --> 01:04:27.180
+little bit intense than we had the year
+
+01:04:29.540 --> 01:04:29.680
+before, but I'm kind of also super glad that
+
+01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:32.040
+we did do them. And, you know,
+
+01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:34.960
+in a way, it did help us sort of connect and
+
+01:04:38.180 --> 01:04:38.360
+get to know each other much more regularly or
+
+01:04:41.200 --> 01:04:41.440
+much more which is great and I see thumbs up
+
+01:04:44.900 --> 01:04:45.060
+from Leo and Corwin so yeah happy we did
+
+01:04:49.080 --> 01:04:49.280
+them. Might want to have some kind of
+
+01:04:51.820 --> 01:04:52.040
+actually irregular ones every once in a while
+
+01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:53.860
+if we have to decide on something.
+
+01:04:55.240 --> 01:04:55.520
+But if like this year,
+
+01:04:57.400 --> 01:04:57.600
+everything can be worked out pretty much ad
+
+01:04:58.780 --> 01:04:59.020
+hoc, whenever needs be,
+
+01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:00.980
+like over asynchronous communications.
+
+01:05:03.640 --> 01:05:04.140
+I see Sasha nodding very excitedly.
+
+01:05:07.820 --> 01:05:08.320
+This also works. So yeah.
+
+01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:11.420
+And I also see some questions coming in here
+
+01:05:14.580 --> 01:05:15.040
+in BBB. If other folks want to join,
+
+01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:16.780
+please feel free to do that as well.
+
+01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:19.300
+Yeah, I don't think we have an issue tracker
+
+01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:22.860
+right now, but our whole website is a wiki.
+
+01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:25.280
+So if you wanna like create a new page or
+
+01:05:26.180 --> 01:05:26.480
+there might be a page,
+
+01:05:28.640 --> 01:05:28.780
+I don't know. You can of course go in and
+
+01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:30.260
+edit it to your heart's content.
+
+01:05:36.540 --> 01:05:37.040
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Hilarious, I couldn't,
+
+01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:39.600
+like I almost managed to type that as fast as
+
+01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:41.260
+you could say it, you know.
+
+01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:43.940
+That's fine. I get the same answer in the
+
+01:05:46.620 --> 01:05:46.800
+chat. Yep. Our website's a wiki and we
+
+01:05:48.060 --> 01:05:48.260
+definitely use ideas here.
+
+01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:50.540
+If you want to implement them or you know
+
+01:05:53.100 --> 01:05:53.440
+document them enough that even Corwin can
+
+01:05:55.240 --> 01:05:55.740
+code it then you know I'll do that.
+
+01:05:58.220 --> 01:05:58.380
+[Speaker 0]: Also I'll go through all the etherpads at
+
+01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:00.480
+some point to harvest them and I think I have
+
+01:06:02.240 --> 01:06:02.480
+yeah I have an Emacs list function that does
+
+01:06:05.020 --> 01:06:05.280
+this for me. So that I can go through that
+
+01:06:06.820 --> 01:06:07.280
+thing and include that in our organizers
+
+01:06:09.060 --> 01:06:09.280
+notebooks, lessons learned and ideas for next
+
+01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:09.780
+year.
+
+01:06:11.120 --> 01:06:11.620
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah.
+
+01:06:15.010 --> 01:06:15.060
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, because something that you know,
+
+01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:16.720
+We were talking about the different models
+
+01:06:18.680 --> 01:06:18.840
+between having many, many meetings and how it
+
+01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:20.760
+paid off eventually. The thing is,
+
+01:06:22.160 --> 01:06:22.660
+this year we had no meetings.
+
+01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:27.660
+We met Friday morning on Mumble and we were
+
+01:06:29.540 --> 01:06:29.720
+ready to go. We did chat things up a little
+
+01:06:30.180 --> 01:06:30.660
+bit on ISE, obviously,
+
+01:06:31.780 --> 01:06:32.120
+but no meeting this year.
+
+01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:33.640
+So I'm tempted to say that,
+
+01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:35.080
+yes, we could have off-hand meetings,
+
+01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:36.480
+but I think it's mostly because we want to
+
+01:06:38.240 --> 01:06:38.680
+see 1 another, not because we need
+
+01:06:40.680 --> 01:06:41.160
+necessarily for those meetings to prepare
+
+01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:45.660
+Emacs cons. But what I wanted to say as well
+
+01:06:49.740 --> 01:06:50.200
+is that I think it's a testament to the bets
+
+01:06:52.940 --> 01:06:53.140
+that Sasha took last year to automatize a lot
+
+01:06:54.520 --> 01:06:54.720
+of things. I mean, we'd already been
+
+01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:56.120
+automatizing a lot of stuff,
+
+01:06:58.260 --> 01:06:58.760
+like writing scripts for every single thing
+
+01:07:02.220 --> 01:07:02.600
+in ESPire, but last year we made a big bet to
+
+01:07:04.600 --> 01:07:04.920
+say, what if we had OBS in the cloud?
+
+01:07:06.580 --> 01:07:06.760
+What if we had a streaming platform that was
+
+01:07:08.680 --> 01:07:08.860
+running on a machine? And this is what
+
+01:07:11.660 --> 01:07:12.100
+allowed us to very smoothly have 2 tracks,
+
+01:07:13.380 --> 01:07:13.880
+the general track and the dev track.
+
+01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:16.980
+And I think the beauty of this system is
+
+01:07:19.680 --> 01:07:19.840
+that, obviously, because we get more and more
+
+01:07:20.720 --> 01:07:21.220
+speakers submitting talks,
+
+01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:23.100
+we are starting to think maybe we actually
+
+01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:26.740
+need a third track or something and no 1 is
+
+01:07:28.580 --> 01:07:29.080
+stressed in the room when Sasha says this.
+
+01:07:31.100 --> 01:07:31.360
+You know, there's not the reaction that's
+
+01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:32.540
+like, oh no it's gonna be tough,
+
+01:07:33.200 --> 01:07:33.620
+we're gonna need more hosts,
+
+01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:34.980
+organizers, it's just a calm...
+
+01:07:37.580 --> 01:07:38.040
+[Speaker 3]: Now, point of order, Now Flowy is stressed
+
+01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:39.500
+when Sasha says this.
+
+01:07:44.640 --> 01:07:45.060
+[Speaker 4]: That was just a-
+
+01:07:46.640 --> 01:07:46.800
+[Speaker 0]: I didn't know, Colin, we could put you in the
+
+01:07:47.720 --> 01:07:47.880
+spot next year. You'd be like,
+
+01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:49.400
+you know, hey, Colin, what do you feel about
+
+01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:49.900
+hosting?
+
+01:07:53.300 --> 01:07:53.800
+[Speaker 3]: You know, I'm happy to do it.
+
+01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:57.260
+And I feel, I mean, just to jump in there and
+
+01:07:59.540 --> 01:08:00.040
+say, yes, exactly. No,
+
+01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:01.560
+there's no concern on the part of the
+
+01:08:03.220 --> 01:08:03.720
+organizer committee that we could expand
+
+01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:06.180
+this. If you said we needed to expand to 4
+
+01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:08.900
+tracks, I think we would gulp and consider
+
+01:08:10.080 --> 01:08:10.360
+it, you know, from there,
+
+01:08:11.040 --> 01:08:11.540
+it gets a little crazy,
+
+01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:14.260
+but strictly because there aren't that many
+
+01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:16.899
+people that we know want to commit.
+
+01:08:18.120 --> 01:08:18.399
+What did we see there?
+
+01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:20.939
+80 hours of potential work that,
+
+01:08:23.000 --> 01:08:23.200
+you know, that could go into organizing next
+
+01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:25.580
+year's conference if you find that it's a
+
+01:08:26.979 --> 01:08:27.399
+rabbit hole for you and being a streamer
+
+01:08:28.979 --> 01:08:29.140
+means you want to read every email and
+
+01:08:31.500 --> 01:08:31.819
+respond to every, as Sasha has done this last
+
+01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:34.819
+year, right? So when I look at her numbers
+
+01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:35.859
+for total participation,
+
+01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:38.500
+that's really a high watermark.
+
+01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:43.939
+Sasha really took care of this convention,
+
+01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:47.180
+you know, like a producer might.
+
+01:08:52.240 --> 01:08:52.660
+And the fact that what used to take 200 hours
+
+01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:56.260
+before, I mean, I can't harp enough on the
+
+01:08:57.720 --> 01:08:57.979
+story that that's telling you,
+
+01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:00.800
+right? And as I think about it with a project
+
+01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:02.080
+manager hat on, right?
+
+01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:03.160
+I'm saying, okay, well,
+
+01:09:07.080 --> 01:09:07.580
+that's, you know, that work can potentially
+
+01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:09.960
+be amplified to many thousands of hours of
+
+01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:11.920
+work, considering the automation and the
+
+01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:13.439
+potential for bringing people in.
+
+01:09:14.540 --> 01:09:14.800
+So if you thought about it as a money-making
+
+01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:16.520
+thing, If we were trying to make money by
+
+01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:17.460
+having these conventions,
+
+01:09:19.040 --> 01:09:19.540
+you would think we have a very profitable
+
+01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:24.000
+business here because we can amplify the
+
+01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:25.939
+talent that walks in the door really
+
+01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:28.640
+effectively, if that makes sense,
+
+01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:30.300
+through the tools and the training.
+
+01:09:33.800 --> 01:09:33.960
+[Speaker 0]: So we should clarify that if anyone wants to
+
+01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:36.180
+volunteer as a host or just check in,
+
+01:09:38.300 --> 01:09:38.380
+let's just talk host. It's really just a
+
+01:09:40.080 --> 01:09:40.580
+matter of showing up, making sure your BVB
+
+01:09:42.160 --> 01:09:42.439
+works so you can talk.
+
+01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:43.620
+If you want to share your webcam,
+
+01:09:44.899 --> 01:09:45.040
+you can. You can skip it if you don't want
+
+01:09:46.359 --> 01:09:46.859
+to. You can share the screen with the pad.
+
+01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:48.800
+And then you just sit there and you chat with
+
+01:09:51.260 --> 01:09:51.399
+a speaker and you read the questions off the
+
+01:09:53.240 --> 01:09:53.399
+pad in case they don't read the questions off
+
+01:09:56.740 --> 01:09:57.240
+themselves. So it can be a very low effort,
+
+01:09:59.440 --> 01:09:59.940
+low stress way to get into it and just there
+
+01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:03.000
+kind of helping the speaker have somebody to
+
+01:10:05.540 --> 01:10:05.820
+talk to. It doesn't have to take 80 hours.
+
+01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:08.720
+It can take 2 hours and that's cool.
+
+01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:10.840
+[Speaker 3]: And the same, and that's just like the
+
+01:10:11.820 --> 01:10:12.040
+transcription task. Yeah,
+
+01:10:13.700 --> 01:10:13.980
+sorry, I probably missed the lead there,
+
+01:10:16.080 --> 01:10:16.360
+right? Every individual part of this is
+
+01:10:19.160 --> 01:10:19.660
+really easy. So it's an open-ended commitment
+
+01:10:22.360 --> 01:10:22.860
+to come and kind of meet a part of the
+
+01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:25.340
+committee, a part of the community,
+
+01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:27.540
+right? To come in and say,
+
+01:10:29.440 --> 01:10:29.940
+maybe you're really excited about org,
+
+01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:33.600
+you could review talks and just review the
+
+01:10:35.420 --> 01:10:35.660
+org ones. There's not an obligation that says
+
+01:10:37.440 --> 01:10:37.800
+you're going to look at every talk that's
+
+01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:40.640
+submitted, right? Share your thoughts on the
+
+01:10:42.500 --> 01:10:42.660
+talks that you have a chance to review the
+
+01:10:44.440 --> 01:10:44.900
+proposals. That's the submissions review
+
+01:10:48.040 --> 01:10:48.540
+part, right? So there's a way to help with
+
+01:10:51.820 --> 01:10:52.120
+almost any appetite for I'd like a little
+
+01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:54.780
+extra work in the Emacs department here like
+
+01:10:56.480 --> 01:10:56.640
+if you want to feel like you're part of the
+
+01:10:59.600 --> 01:10:59.800
+team this this team is really easy to get
+
+01:11:02.440 --> 01:11:02.710
+[Speaker 7]: think that's
+
+01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:03.840
+[Speaker 3]: involved with. I I mean,
+
+01:11:04.280 --> 01:11:04.440
+please. Go ahead,
+
+01:11:06.820 --> 01:11:07.320
+[Speaker 4]: No, no, please. I've talked enough.
+
+01:11:08.940 --> 01:11:09.100
+[Speaker 1]: sort of the... Leo. Well,
+
+01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:10.660
+I don't get tired of hearing you talk,
+
+01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:13.500
+but yeah, I was going to say,
+
+01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:17.320
+Yeah, I feel like that's the general message
+
+01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:19.920
+here is that we're all just a bunch of people
+
+01:11:21.360 --> 01:11:21.860
+who are interested in this.
+
+01:11:24.060 --> 01:11:24.560
+And of course, being humans,
+
+01:11:26.120 --> 01:11:26.280
+each of us have different kinds of lives and
+
+01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:27.720
+different kinds of availabilities and
+
+01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:28.760
+different kinds of interests.
+
+01:11:29.860 --> 01:11:30.360
+And there is something for everybody,
+
+01:11:34.300 --> 01:11:34.540
+both in terms of the kinds of tasks that you
+
+01:11:37.480 --> 01:11:37.760
+need doing, but also in terms of the amount
+
+01:11:39.980 --> 01:11:40.480
+of time that you want or are able to put in.
+
+01:11:43.780 --> 01:11:44.080
+So yes, if you do think this is something
+
+01:11:46.240 --> 01:11:46.700
+that you might be interested in helping with
+
+01:11:47.980 --> 01:11:48.400
+for future additions and such,
+
+01:11:51.140 --> 01:11:51.340
+or even some of the post-conference work that
+
+01:11:52.300 --> 01:11:52.800
+needs doing after this year.
+
+01:11:55.800 --> 01:11:55.960
+Please reach out there's something for
+
+01:11:57.440 --> 01:11:57.940
+everybody and I would love to have
+
+01:12:03.020 --> 01:12:03.360
+[Speaker 6]: you. I can confirm there was an easy access
+
+01:12:06.260 --> 01:12:06.500
+so I came here last year just doing some
+
+01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:09.100
+checking in and the process of getting,
+
+01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:11.120
+it's called a trained in was really,
+
+01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:12.620
+really short. There was a lot of
+
+01:12:13.700 --> 01:12:14.200
+documentation how to do something.
+
+01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:17.920
+I mean, there's a pad that gets sent and what
+
+01:12:20.540 --> 01:12:20.660
+to do, when to do, and what to ask is like
+
+01:12:22.160 --> 01:12:22.660
+really incredible. So thank you for that.
+
+01:12:26.320 --> 01:12:26.820
+Just come here, write an email,
+
+01:12:28.860 --> 01:12:29.200
+join us. It's really, really cool.
+
+01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:31.420
+And it's a great experience to be honest.
+
+01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:35.900
+[Speaker 4]: Thank you. And while Sasha is speaking about
+
+01:12:36.820 --> 01:12:37.280
+the update of the wiki,
+
+01:12:38.320 --> 01:12:38.820
+oh Coleman did you want to say something?
+
+01:12:41.140 --> 01:12:41.600
+[Speaker 3]: No I was just I was just gonna embarrass
+
+01:12:44.240 --> 01:12:44.740
+Floey Coder further but you go ahead.
+
+01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:51.200
+I was just gonna say I think you're pretty
+
+01:12:52.420 --> 01:12:52.900
+quick, you're pretty quick,
+
+01:12:55.320 --> 01:12:55.820
+you took to it really quickly or you show
+
+01:12:57.240 --> 01:12:57.740
+just kind of a reflexive calm.
+
+01:12:59.340 --> 01:12:59.720
+Like you know how to not talk over people.
+
+01:13:01.200 --> 01:13:01.700
+You're already better at it than I am.
+
+01:13:06.500 --> 01:13:07.000
+Now, you know, I think,
+
+01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:09.280
+yeah, I hope you're enjoying the new stuff
+
+01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:10.720
+that you're starting to take on because you
+
+01:13:12.040 --> 01:13:12.540
+seem to be doing great with it.
+
+01:13:14.220 --> 01:13:14.500
+And yeah, I hope you're not sitting there
+
+01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:16.080
+thinking that you're taking,
+
+01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:18.340
+you know, that you're coming on,
+
+01:13:19.700 --> 01:13:19.920
+that you're not taking on enough
+
+01:13:21.420 --> 01:13:21.680
+responsibility or anything like that,
+
+01:13:23.100 --> 01:13:23.600
+or I don't know, maybe.
+
+01:13:26.040 --> 01:13:26.240
+I picked up like a little undercurrent of
+
+01:13:28.100 --> 01:13:28.380
+like, I don't do that much,
+
+01:13:31.440 --> 01:13:31.940
+and I hope you don't feel that way because I
+
+01:13:33.719 --> 01:13:34.219
+just enjoyed really having your help the last
+
+01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:39.180
+couple of years. Thank you very much.
+
+01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:47.720
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, that's how they get you,
+
+01:13:48.560 --> 01:13:48.680
+you know, they just tell you,
+
+01:13:49.340 --> 01:13:49.840
+oh, could you do check-ins?
+
+01:13:51.820 --> 01:13:52.180
+Like I showed up for 4 years ago saying,
+
+01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:55.080
+oh, I'd like to help and look at me now.
+
+01:13:56.780 --> 01:13:57.040
+I think I did I host on the first year?
+
+01:13:57.800 --> 01:13:58.300
+I'm pretty sure I did.
+
+01:14:00.020 --> 01:14:00.420
+Like it took 2 months basically of onboarding
+
+01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:03.160
+to convince me to do some of the hosting and
+
+01:14:06.820 --> 01:14:07.000
+back then oh it was so tough for us to do the
+
+01:14:08.440 --> 01:14:08.680
+hosting because we didn't have all the fancy
+
+01:14:10.320 --> 01:14:10.680
+setup we have this year and we were
+
+01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:14.180
+struggling with OBS with bid rates with
+
+01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:18.340
+sharing scenes I'm glad we are where we are
+
+01:14:20.460 --> 01:14:20.760
+today, where I don't have to worry as much
+
+01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:22.120
+about this. But it's also nice,
+
+01:14:24.440 --> 01:14:24.580
+it's also 1 thing, we do have a culture of
+
+01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:26.260
+documentation as Sasha exemplified,
+
+01:14:28.140 --> 01:14:28.640
+and like Flo mentioned,
+
+01:14:29.540 --> 01:14:29.820
+documentation on the roles.
+
+01:14:33.060 --> 01:14:33.560
+Yes, We did do this to help people join us.
+
+01:14:39.360 --> 01:14:39.840
+But really, I'm the host of General,
+
+01:14:41.660 --> 01:14:41.840
+but it could be just anyone else because we
+
+01:14:43.780 --> 01:14:44.020
+have so much documentation on how to do
+
+01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:46.780
+things. Obviously, when a co-organizer is
+
+01:14:48.740 --> 01:14:48.900
+doing a role, we tend to have an eye on how
+
+01:14:49.740 --> 01:14:50.160
+the infrastructure is going.
+
+01:14:51.820 --> 01:14:52.320
+But really, if you want to join us,
+
+01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:54.940
+we will make sure that the jobs that you
+
+01:14:57.240 --> 01:14:57.500
+have, first, you like them and it's something
+
+01:14:59.440 --> 01:14:59.640
+that interests you, and we will also make
+
+01:15:04.180 --> 01:15:04.400
+sure that on our end, everything goes well
+
+01:15:06.140 --> 01:15:06.640
+for you. Like we'll be monitoring the streams
+
+01:15:08.540 --> 01:15:09.040
+and every time we have a new person join us,
+
+01:15:13.500 --> 01:15:14.000
+it is as much energy and mental availability
+
+01:15:17.780 --> 01:15:18.220
+to invest into, oh, maybe we could do this.
+
+01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:19.940
+Oh, 0, we have a fire going out because the
+
+01:15:21.320 --> 01:15:21.820
+speaker hasn't checked in yet.
+
+01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:24.560
+So it's all about sharing expertise,
+
+01:15:27.180 --> 01:15:27.260
+it's all about making people level up in
+
+01:15:28.520 --> 01:15:29.020
+terms of skills that are really useful.
+
+01:15:34.120 --> 01:15:34.280
+I will attribute a lot of my success in
+
+01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:36.120
+public speaking to the work I do with
+
+01:15:38.620 --> 01:15:39.120
+EmacsConf, and I'm sure plenty of people
+
+01:15:43.420 --> 01:15:43.620
+would gain from joining us and learning these
+
+01:15:47.440 --> 01:15:47.940
+skills. All right, It's about 30 minutes past
+
+01:15:49.740 --> 01:15:49.920
+the official time. Do we want to go a little
+
+01:15:51.180 --> 01:15:51.680
+longer? Are we still available to go?
+
+01:15:55.180 --> 01:15:55.680
+All right, well, let's keep going.
+
+01:16:00.443 --> 01:16:00.486
+I don't see any more people joining us on the
+
+01:16:00.660 --> 01:16:00.703
+[Speaker 1]: We have Bob,
+
+01:16:01.240 --> 01:16:01.720
+[Speaker 4]: Blue Button. who was 1 of the speakers today
+
+01:16:03.940 --> 01:16:04.200
+in the room. Bob, do you want to maybe unmute
+
+01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:05.900
+yourself and ask us some questions?
+
+01:16:08.420 --> 01:16:08.720
+Or just thank us. I mean,
+
+01:16:09.480 --> 01:16:09.840
+I'm just begging for something.
+
+01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:11.420
+But I know you've been very helpful.
+
+01:16:15.340 --> 01:16:15.720
+[Speaker 5]: Yes. How are you? No, I've really had fun.
+
+01:16:18.340 --> 01:16:18.600
+No, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted for you,
+
+01:16:22.800 --> 01:16:23.300
+I think. So I learned something.
+
+01:16:25.040 --> 01:16:25.460
+Everybody wants to record their videos,
+
+01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:26.940
+which of course, is great,
+
+01:16:28.380 --> 01:16:28.480
+and then you have the subtitles and
+
+01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:32.040
+everything. But I saved a lot of time by
+
+01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:35.740
+doing it live this year and not going in and
+
+01:16:38.040 --> 01:16:38.200
+tweaking and doing all the editing and
+
+01:16:39.440 --> 01:16:39.860
+spending all the time that we do.
+
+01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:42.720
+And it was kind of fun to do it that way too.
+
+01:16:44.900 --> 01:16:45.400
+So just a little note there.
+
+01:16:48.340 --> 01:16:48.640
+But I look forward to seeing 1 of my talks
+
+01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:53.940
+subtitled someday. So no,
+
+01:16:55.240 --> 01:16:55.740
+I love what you do. It's fun.
+
+01:16:57.660 --> 01:16:57.900
+I've only seen part of Sasha's talk,
+
+01:17:00.660 --> 01:17:01.000
+so I'll go and review that about how you're
+
+01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:04.340
+automating all this. You know,
+
+01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:06.680
+it's a little sad for me personally that of
+
+01:17:09.080 --> 01:17:09.580
+course, Org gets all the attention,
+
+01:17:14.060 --> 01:17:14.340
+but you know, we're exposing hyperbole more
+
+01:17:16.820 --> 01:17:17.240
+now and There's definitely a growing interest
+
+01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:19.020
+on Reddit and you know,
+
+01:17:20.140 --> 01:17:20.640
+I think it's kind of like EmacsConf.
+
+01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:23.900
+Give it a few years. We went away for a long
+
+01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:25.340
+time and then we came back.
+
+01:17:30.420 --> 01:17:30.880
+We'll start to see it permeate the Emacs
+
+01:17:33.160 --> 01:17:33.660
+first. But I was thinking that,
+
+01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:36.960
+you know, I think people who like Emacs and
+
+01:17:38.340 --> 01:17:38.840
+stuff, they read things online,
+
+01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:41.420
+they come to this conference,
+
+01:17:43.620 --> 01:17:43.940
+but we're always hearing about,
+
+01:17:44.620 --> 01:17:45.120
+well, the next generation.
+
+01:17:47.260 --> 01:17:47.500
+We have to deal with that.
+
+01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:50.160
+And I think a lot of people get exposed to
+
+01:17:52.900 --> 01:17:53.120
+Emacs in college. Now a professor turns them
+
+01:17:55.080 --> 01:17:55.460
+on to it and makes them use it,
+
+01:17:57.100 --> 01:17:57.600
+and then they go out into the real world,
+
+01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:00.220
+and there's no encouragement anymore,
+
+01:18:01.460 --> 01:18:01.960
+and they just drop it.
+
+01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:05.980
+And with all of what you're putting together
+
+01:18:09.280 --> 01:18:09.720
+here, it seems like if there was some reach
+
+01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:14.620
+out to universities and college students,
+
+01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:19.100
+You know, we might get a whole new big crowd
+
+01:18:22.360 --> 01:18:22.580
+of people coming in. You know,
+
+01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:25.320
+just as I think OREG has really attracted a
+
+01:18:26.840 --> 01:18:27.340
+lot of people in the sciences,
+
+01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:30.440
+since that's what it was originally developed
+
+01:18:32.500 --> 01:18:32.860
+for. So just a thought,
+
+01:18:35.740 --> 01:18:35.900
+you know, maybe if you get any volunteers who
+
+01:18:38.440 --> 01:18:38.940
+can help in the reach out or just,
+
+01:18:40.320 --> 01:18:40.560
+you know, sending things around to
+
+01:18:43.780 --> 01:18:44.020
+universities that might really extend who
+
+01:18:45.060 --> 01:18:45.560
+gets exposed to this stuff.
+
+01:18:49.240 --> 01:18:49.480
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's a great and very
+
+01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:52.020
+interesting idea. And it sort of touches on a
+
+01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:53.000
+couple of different things.
+
+01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:54.140
+Sort of like you mentioned,
+
+01:18:56.180 --> 01:18:56.400
+well, with org, it sort of really drew into
+
+01:19:00.060 --> 01:19:00.560
+sciences, folks. It would be interesting to
+
+01:19:03.280 --> 01:19:03.780
+see other parts of Emacs doing that for other
+
+01:19:05.740 --> 01:19:06.240
+kinds of communities, but also specifically,
+
+01:19:08.920 --> 01:19:09.420
+I guess, for colleges and universities.
+
+01:19:14.220 --> 01:19:14.680
+Yeah, it would be cool if we had local groups
+
+01:19:17.140 --> 01:19:17.300
+or local meetups, because so far right now,
+
+01:19:20.140 --> 01:19:20.420
+I think the most common ones are like by city
+
+01:19:22.280 --> 01:19:22.440
+like for example a Toronto Emacs meetup or
+
+01:19:25.320 --> 01:19:25.760
+something like that yeah if you could maybe
+
+01:19:28.820 --> 01:19:29.320
+encourage or help foster a university level
+
+01:19:32.200 --> 01:19:32.520
+type of thing you know University of blah
+
+01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:35.860
+blah Emacs group or something like that and
+
+01:19:39.860 --> 01:19:40.080
+you know seeing what their needs would be or
+
+01:19:42.860 --> 01:19:43.360
+trying to think also what features of Emacs
+
+01:19:46.260 --> 01:19:46.560
+would be very useful in an academic slash
+
+01:19:48.680 --> 01:19:48.920
+educational setting. Yeah,
+
+01:19:50.460 --> 01:19:50.840
+lots of food for thought there.
+
+01:19:52.120 --> 01:19:52.620
+So thank you for mentioning this.
+
+01:20:02.420 --> 01:20:02.920
+[Speaker 5]: Sure. And I guess, yeah,
+
+01:20:04.400 --> 01:20:04.900
+OBS is coming up here.
+
+01:20:06.820 --> 01:20:07.040
+I worked with that a bit,
+
+01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:09.240
+yes, last year. You know,
+
+01:20:12.040 --> 01:20:12.540
+another powerful piece of software with a
+
+01:20:15.240 --> 01:20:15.740
+sort of, I think, a weak user interface,
+
+01:20:20.080 --> 01:20:20.540
+you know, for the newbies coming along on it.
+
+01:20:23.200 --> 01:20:23.700
+And maybe, you know, if there's,
+
+01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:26.420
+if that's kind of what people use,
+
+01:20:29.540 --> 01:20:29.700
+figuring out or putting some information in
+
+01:20:32.740 --> 01:20:33.240
+the wiki about how to do that,
+
+01:20:34.900 --> 01:20:35.400
+you know, work with it or...
+
+01:20:36.300 --> 01:20:36.800
+[Speaker 4]: Oh, good idea.
+
+01:20:43.140 --> 01:20:43.340
+[Speaker 3]: I can comment. It is definitely the
+
+01:20:46.420 --> 01:20:46.920
+preeminent streamer software out there,
+
+01:20:49.120 --> 01:20:49.620
+well beyond the free software community.
+
+01:20:54.120 --> 01:20:54.500
+It's used by most streamers on Twitch and
+
+01:20:59.680 --> 01:20:59.960
+other like commercial for-profit things but
+
+01:21:01.780 --> 01:21:02.220
+of course those companies are making money
+
+01:21:04.480 --> 01:21:04.700
+off people trying to give money to the
+
+01:21:07.200 --> 01:21:07.440
+streamers. Those streamers aren't getting any
+
+01:21:10.160 --> 01:21:10.660
+software help. So actually most of them are
+
+01:21:13.900 --> 01:21:14.400
+dependent for their income on free software
+
+01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:18.900
+like OBS and OBS in specific or by some kind
+
+01:21:23.100 --> 01:21:23.600
+of forked brand name is the primary tool.
+
+01:21:28.660 --> 01:21:28.820
+[Speaker 4]: If I'm not mistaken I believe Stefan has
+
+01:21:29.860 --> 01:21:30.360
+joined us right now in the room.
+
+01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:33.420
+I'm putting you on the spot,
+
+01:21:34.480 --> 01:21:34.760
+if you want to stay muted you can.
+
+01:21:35.640 --> 01:21:36.140
+Oh, you have unmuted yourself.
+
+01:21:38.400 --> 01:21:38.900
+[Speaker 7]: I managed to click the unmute button.
+
+01:21:41.180 --> 01:21:41.680
+Yes, I'm here. How are you guys doing?
+
+01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:44.200
+[Speaker 4]: Doing good, surviving here.
+
+01:21:44.200 --> 01:21:44.700
+[Speaker 1]: Congratulations.
+
+01:21:45.480 --> 01:21:45.980
+[Speaker 4]: Late in your time.
+
+01:21:50.040 --> 01:21:50.220
+[Speaker 7]: Really amazing work organizing the
+
+01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:52.460
+conference. I really have to congratulate
+
+01:21:56.120 --> 01:21:56.480
+everyone. So I just hopped on here to sort of
+
+01:21:58.140 --> 01:21:58.640
+say that I'm extremely impressed.
+
+01:22:04.240 --> 01:22:04.540
+And I think this is an example to follow for
+
+01:22:07.040 --> 01:22:07.440
+other conferences and for Emacs in general.
+
+01:22:09.400 --> 01:22:09.900
+I think we need more of this community-type
+
+01:22:12.940 --> 01:22:13.380
+organizing and just getting people interested
+
+01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:16.240
+and involved on all kinds of levels can only
+
+01:22:20.200 --> 01:22:20.340
+help Emacs. Because we are in this for the
+
+01:22:22.540 --> 01:22:23.040
+long haul. That's it.
+
+01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:25.780
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, what a great point.
+
+01:22:28.500 --> 01:22:28.740
+If I can comment, that's 1 of the things that
+
+01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:31.020
+drew me to trying to contribute to free
+
+01:22:32.580 --> 01:22:32.960
+software when I was a kid,
+
+01:22:35.580 --> 01:22:36.080
+like we're talking now 30 plus years ago,
+
+01:22:38.360 --> 01:22:38.860
+the idea like, and I recognized it from
+
+01:22:42.180 --> 01:22:42.620
+Stallman's initial manifestos on the topic,
+
+01:22:45.060 --> 01:22:45.360
+right? He was clearly in this for the long
+
+01:22:47.040 --> 01:22:47.540
+haul. Like I am building the library of
+
+01:22:50.500 --> 01:22:50.740
+Alexandria here and like linking the work
+
+01:22:52.420 --> 01:22:52.580
+that we're trying to do to community that I
+
+01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:54.900
+don't know how you could touch my heart you
+
+01:22:57.620 --> 01:22:57.840
+know more surely because that's that's
+
+01:22:59.440 --> 01:22:59.940
+exactly what we want to do not necessarily
+
+01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:04.300
+any given talk or comment but the idea that
+
+01:23:07.960 --> 01:23:08.460
+we have to get together and share our ideas
+
+01:23:10.900 --> 01:23:11.400
+and the place that we do that has to be just
+
+01:23:14.380 --> 01:23:14.880
+has to be a buffet and not a crucible.
+
+01:23:17.620 --> 01:23:17.800
+[Speaker 7]: And look, we're standing on the shoulders of
+
+01:23:19.400 --> 01:23:19.840
+giants, really, when we're looking at Emacs
+
+01:23:21.100 --> 01:23:21.600
+and sort of what we have achieved.
+
+01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:24.840
+And the galaxy of talent that exists in the
+
+01:23:27.040 --> 01:23:27.540
+Emacs community is also like truly
+
+01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:31.300
+impressive, I think. So There's a lot of work
+
+01:23:34.280 --> 01:23:34.780
+to be done, but we've also achieved some
+
+01:23:37.120 --> 01:23:37.480
+pretty impressive things so far.
+
+01:23:38.620 --> 01:23:39.120
+So let's just keep at it.
+
+01:23:43.200 --> 01:23:43.700
+I'm sure we'll have a fantastic future for
+
+01:23:44.180 --> 01:23:44.680
+Emacs.
+
+01:23:52.540 --> 01:23:53.040
+[Speaker 5]: You know, I'm kind of interested in what
+
+01:23:56.540 --> 01:23:57.040
+Stefan's here. You know,
+
+01:24:00.400 --> 01:24:00.900
+just the common tropes that go around.
+
+01:24:05.320 --> 01:24:05.740
+I just hear it so much on the net,
+
+01:24:07.540 --> 01:24:08.040
+you know, is Emacs still alive?
+
+01:24:09.960 --> 01:24:10.460
+Do people still use it?
+
+01:24:11.120 --> 01:24:11.480
+You know, and of course,
+
+01:24:13.620 --> 01:24:14.100
+it's like you have an older piece of software
+
+01:24:15.200 --> 01:24:15.700
+that started so long ago,
+
+01:24:17.540 --> 01:24:17.720
+people don't realize that it's still up,
+
+01:24:20.320 --> 01:24:20.820
+but it's also because of the trends,
+
+01:24:22.900 --> 01:24:23.400
+right? You know, we've got the electron-based
+
+01:24:28.580 --> 01:24:28.740
+development and Visual Studio is slick out of
+
+01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:33.220
+the box. So what's in the core Emacs
+
+01:24:36.260 --> 01:24:36.540
+developers realm, obviously you guys are
+
+01:24:38.160 --> 01:24:38.660
+taking this longer term perspective,
+
+01:24:44.060 --> 01:24:44.380
+which makes sense, but what do you think
+
+01:24:48.480 --> 01:24:48.980
+about this issue, the shorter term and how to
+
+01:24:52.200 --> 01:24:52.540
+alleviate those concerns that some people
+
+01:24:52.540 --> 01:24:53.040
+represent?
+
+01:24:54.820 --> 01:24:55.040
+[Speaker 7]: Of course, yes. I mean,
+
+01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:56.160
+this is something that,
+
+01:24:59.340 --> 01:24:59.600
+I mean, clearly people are discussing and as
+
+01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:01.800
+you say, It's almost like a trope at this
+
+01:25:04.200 --> 01:25:04.700
+point. And it's been discussed on EmacsDevil,
+
+01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:07.960
+what can we do to promote Emacs more and to
+
+01:25:10.240 --> 01:25:10.740
+what extent should we care about that?
+
+01:25:15.100 --> 01:25:15.600
+And I mean, my reply to that is usually just,
+
+01:25:19.120 --> 01:25:19.620
+the rumors of my death are very accurate.
+
+01:25:24.720 --> 01:25:25.220
+And I think this is true also for Emacs.
+
+01:25:29.240 --> 01:25:29.700
+So we are very much here.
+
+01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:32.460
+I think what has happened also is reflective
+
+01:25:34.960 --> 01:25:35.220
+of basically that there are just more
+
+01:25:36.580 --> 01:25:37.080
+programmers on the planet,
+
+01:25:38.040 --> 01:25:38.240
+[Speaker 3]: And we
+
+01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:40.420
+[Speaker 7]: right? haven't been able to sort of catch
+
+01:25:41.960 --> 01:25:42.460
+that segment as it's been growing,
+
+01:25:44.680 --> 01:25:45.060
+but also we have more Emacs users I think
+
+01:25:47.500 --> 01:25:47.860
+today than probably ever before.
+
+01:25:48.420 --> 01:25:48.920
+We have more packages,
+
+01:25:50.540 --> 01:25:51.040
+we have more stuff going on.
+
+01:25:55.580 --> 01:25:55.980
+So I think it's a challenge as well,
+
+01:25:58.200 --> 01:25:58.440
+like to what extent do we wanna be like a
+
+01:26:00.260 --> 01:26:00.420
+niche and to what extent do we wanna be the
+
+01:26:03.280 --> 01:26:03.780
+text editor for programmers.
+
+01:26:06.420 --> 01:26:06.720
+And I think there's a tension there because
+
+01:26:09.780 --> 01:26:09.960
+we want to stay true to what Emacs is and to
+
+01:26:12.440 --> 01:26:12.940
+its sort of core values of what makes Emacs
+
+01:26:16.720 --> 01:26:16.880
+great, but can we still make some changes to
+
+01:26:18.340 --> 01:26:18.760
+sort of stay relevant.
+
+01:26:21.060 --> 01:26:21.340
+And I think that's a huge win.
+
+01:26:24.800 --> 01:26:24.960
+And clearly these discussions are going on on
+
+01:26:26.980 --> 01:26:27.280
+the Emacs level and in the minds of core
+
+01:26:29.340 --> 01:26:29.640
+developers, I think, every day.
+
+01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:32.540
+Even though, I mean, most of our work is just
+
+01:26:35.320 --> 01:26:35.820
+trying to keep adding new features,
+
+01:26:38.220 --> 01:26:38.720
+make sure that we have that sort of core
+
+01:26:40.060 --> 01:26:40.400
+infrastructure in place,
+
+01:26:42.280 --> 01:26:42.500
+which is part of the reason why I gave the
+
+01:26:44.260 --> 01:26:44.680
+talk I did yesterday, to invite more people
+
+01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:46.960
+to come on board. Because I see a lot of
+
+01:26:48.200 --> 01:26:48.700
+people have opinions about Emacs,
+
+01:26:50.700 --> 01:26:51.200
+which is amazing, and we need more of that.
+
+01:26:54.160 --> 01:26:54.660
+But I think, let's say,
+
+01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:56.780
+patches speak louder than words.
+
+01:27:01.300 --> 01:27:01.780
+Software. And it's definitely true in Emacs
+
+01:27:01.780 --> 01:27:02.280
+development.
+
+01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:04.960
+[Speaker 3]: I want to just piggyback on,
+
+01:27:06.820 --> 01:27:06.940
+like attack the premise of the question a
+
+01:27:09.800 --> 01:27:09.960
+little bit, right? Remember that we are sort
+
+01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:12.380
+of in a trench warfare with commercial
+
+01:27:15.160 --> 01:27:15.660
+interests that are dependent on dominating
+
+01:27:20.660 --> 01:27:21.160
+software ecosystems in order to exploit users
+
+01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:24.760
+for money. Like that is a necessary thing to
+
+01:27:26.020 --> 01:27:26.420
+a lot of people's business model.
+
+01:27:30.060 --> 01:27:30.560
+And so we live in a world where software is
+
+01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:33.260
+more than tools. It is clothing.
+
+01:27:38.480 --> 01:27:38.840
+And so when I put on my Mac and I put on my
+
+01:27:42.860 --> 01:27:43.180
+UI skin, I'm not just choosing whether I like
+
+01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:46.960
+sliders or radio buttons or check boxes or
+
+01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:50.340
+the other UI mechanics that give that
+
+01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:54.160
+heuristic and make it make me think it's easy
+
+01:27:55.440 --> 01:27:55.940
+to use, easy to learn to use,
+
+01:27:59.160 --> 01:27:59.340
+right? I'm also choosing a whole line of
+
+01:28:02.080 --> 01:28:02.580
+implementation detail that I'm being actively
+
+01:28:06.040 --> 01:28:06.540
+trained not to try to understand by,
+
+01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:09.020
+you know, kind of the dark side of the force
+
+01:28:11.780 --> 01:28:12.100
+over here. So when I think about,
+
+01:28:14.380 --> 01:28:14.880
+you know, make Emacs more like Toaster,
+
+01:28:18.860 --> 01:28:19.060
+[Speaker 1]: you know,
+
+01:28:21.340 --> 01:28:21.560
+[Speaker 3]: I, 1 of my responses is every time that
+
+01:28:22.740 --> 01:28:22.960
+question asks, you know,
+
+01:28:24.160 --> 01:28:24.480
+an angel grows, gets asked,
+
+01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:25.720
+an angel grows its wings.
+
+01:28:27.040 --> 01:28:27.540
+A developer submits a patch,
+
+01:28:30.040 --> 01:28:30.240
+a bug gets opened that we can,
+
+01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:32.320
+you know, with enough information to actually
+
+01:28:33.240 --> 01:28:33.740
+do something about it,
+
+01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:35.280
+the ecosystem gets better,
+
+01:28:38.100 --> 01:28:38.600
+right? Whether a new user comes or not,
+
+01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:41.040
+like somebody's actually asking a question
+
+01:28:42.780 --> 01:28:42.900
+that's going to lead them someday to pick a
+
+01:28:43.260 --> 01:28:43.760
+better tool.
+
+01:28:47.620 --> 01:28:48.120
+[Speaker 7]: Yeah, it's true. I mean,
+
+01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:50.280
+we have powerful enemies and they are not
+
+01:28:52.540 --> 01:28:52.720
+working for us. And when they are working on
+
+01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:55.160
+improving VS code, you can't be under any
+
+01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:56.720
+illusion that they are doing that in the
+
+01:28:57.340 --> 01:28:57.660
+interest of the users.
+
+01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:00.060
+They're doing that in their interest of the
+
+01:29:02.620 --> 01:29:02.780
+corporate owners. So this is the reality that
+
+01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:04.900
+we have to face and Emacs is just not like
+
+01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:08.040
+that. And this is of course part of the
+
+01:29:09.960 --> 01:29:10.460
+reason why it's so important that we continue
+
+01:29:14.040 --> 01:29:14.260
+this work for the future of being able to do
+
+01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:17.800
+computing in a free way and in a way that is
+
+01:29:20.220 --> 01:29:20.380
+actually, you know, supports the types of
+
+01:29:21.740 --> 01:29:22.240
+workflows that we know and love.
+
+01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:26.920
+[Speaker 4]: Something that I'd like to add to this is
+
+01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:30.060
+that, you know, you've mentioned we need more
+
+01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:31.140
+programmers in the world.
+
+01:29:33.240 --> 01:29:33.340
+And in light of what we're doing with
+
+01:29:35.140 --> 01:29:35.220
+EmacsConf, perhaps we need more people to be
+
+01:29:36.580 --> 01:29:36.960
+at EmacsConf talking, not necessarily
+
+01:29:38.100 --> 01:29:38.600
+programmers, but just people apprehending
+
+01:29:40.520 --> 01:29:40.940
+Emacs and talking about it.
+
+01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:43.180
+It feels like we've got different missions
+
+01:29:44.440 --> 01:29:44.700
+that we're trying to accomplish with this.
+
+01:29:45.820 --> 01:29:46.320
+We are... Okay, you...
+
+01:29:47.780 --> 01:29:48.280
+Go ahead, Colin.
+
+01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:49.940
+[Speaker 3]: I can't leave that alone.
+
+01:29:52.120 --> 01:29:52.420
+I almost came in there on the previous point.
+
+01:29:55.020 --> 01:29:55.240
+Yeah, I actually Completely agree with that
+
+01:29:58.900 --> 01:29:59.140
+Leo. That's something that and I mean to be
+
+01:30:02.780 --> 01:30:03.240
+fair. I owe a good I owe dev al a good email
+
+01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:06.160
+on this topic, but we desperately need more
+
+01:30:07.840 --> 01:30:08.340
+project managers, more solutions architect,
+
+01:30:10.380 --> 01:30:10.880
+more business process analysts,
+
+01:30:12.660 --> 01:30:13.160
+more systems analysts,
+
+01:30:15.100 --> 01:30:15.560
+more, you know, and the best tech,
+
+01:30:17.900 --> 01:30:18.400
+you know, some of the best threads start with
+
+01:30:23.100 --> 01:30:23.420
+quite a bit of an analytical work done on the
+
+01:30:24.940 --> 01:30:25.440
+part of an engineer who's come along.
+
+01:30:29.320 --> 01:30:29.680
+But actually, Larry Wall has this quote,
+
+01:30:31.640 --> 01:30:32.140
+right? Where he says, consider 3 solutions
+
+01:30:34.120 --> 01:30:34.300
+and build 1. And I think we struggle with
+
+01:30:36.760 --> 01:30:37.260
+that as a community because getting a patch
+
+01:30:39.920 --> 01:30:40.120
+is a lot of work and a lot to ask for
+
+01:30:42.900 --> 01:30:43.080
+somebody. So asking 3 people to submit a
+
+01:30:45.200 --> 01:30:45.260
+patch means you're saying no to a lot of
+
+01:30:47.280 --> 01:30:47.560
+blood, sweat and tears on the part of like 2
+
+01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:49.460
+people, maybe 2 teams of people.
+
+01:30:55.520 --> 01:30:56.020
+[Speaker 5]: And 1 thing I think is a big expansion is
+
+01:31:02.020 --> 01:31:02.520
+usability and user experience design.
+
+01:31:05.560 --> 01:31:05.900
+I think, and not in the sense like,
+
+01:31:08.260 --> 01:31:08.760
+you know, CUA mode or,
+
+01:31:12.440 --> 01:31:12.560
+you know, people don't realize that Emacs key
+
+01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:14.180
+bindings are actually ergonomic,
+
+01:31:16.720 --> 01:31:17.220
+but more, you know, like for myself,
+
+01:31:20.240 --> 01:31:20.740
+I did a lot of work in sort of bringing out
+
+01:31:24.480 --> 01:31:24.880
+Emacs features and did a lot of things
+
+01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:26.740
+creating this info doc,
+
+01:31:28.940 --> 01:31:29.100
+you know, which is sort of like Space Max or
+
+01:31:30.300 --> 01:31:30.800
+something in the old days.
+
+01:31:33.900 --> 01:31:34.200
+But the process, yeah,
+
+01:31:38.600 --> 01:31:39.100
+kept a lot of that from ever making it into
+
+01:31:40.460 --> 01:31:40.680
+CoreDMX and, you know,
+
+01:31:44.180 --> 01:31:44.680
+just a lack of time on my part to follow up.
+
+01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:47.060
+But if you had somebody,
+
+01:31:51.220 --> 01:31:51.500
+you know, who sort of coalesced all the
+
+01:31:52.820 --> 01:31:53.260
+technical work on like,
+
+01:31:56.280 --> 01:31:56.480
+here's how we can put it together and make it
+
+01:32:01.320 --> 01:32:01.820
+more accessible, I've seen that go a long way
+
+01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:03.300
+in certain environments.
+
+01:32:06.100 --> 01:32:06.340
+And I imagine, you know,
+
+01:32:08.160 --> 01:32:08.660
+it's just not the experience of,
+
+01:32:11.180 --> 01:32:11.680
+you know, most people on the core team.
+
+01:32:14.620 --> 01:32:15.060
+[Speaker 7]: Yeah, for sure. I mean,
+
+01:32:16.160 --> 01:32:16.560
+We don't have, I mean,
+
+01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:18.900
+we're mostly a bunch, we're a bunch of
+
+01:32:20.080 --> 01:32:20.280
+programmers. That's what we are,
+
+01:32:22.640 --> 01:32:22.800
+right? We don't have graphical signers or any
+
+01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:24.620
+of the stuff that you're talking about.
+
+01:32:28.380 --> 01:32:28.580
+So we don't have really any UX experts on
+
+01:32:30.380 --> 01:32:30.800
+board. So perhaps that would be welcome.
+
+01:32:35.460 --> 01:32:35.960
+But then again, how do you even fit the EMAX
+
+01:32:38.880 --> 01:32:39.280
+paradigm into what is typically taught and
+
+01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:41.120
+discussed in UX? I mean,
+
+01:32:43.220 --> 01:32:43.380
+maybe there is a way. I'm sure there are
+
+01:32:45.640 --> 01:32:45.920
+general principles and a lot that we could
+
+01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:48.380
+learn, But then there is also like this,
+
+01:32:52.240 --> 01:32:52.440
+we have to stay true to what Emacs is to some
+
+01:32:53.940 --> 01:32:54.400
+extent and what does that look like
+
+01:32:56.320 --> 01:32:56.580
+concretely. There are discussions to be had
+
+01:32:58.620 --> 01:32:59.120
+for sure, but we would definitely benefit
+
+01:33:02.900 --> 01:33:03.400
+from that type of specific input.
+
+01:33:04.360 --> 01:33:04.480
+[Speaker 3]: Well, I
+
+01:33:06.940 --> 01:33:07.240
+[Speaker 5]: mean, like a simple example today is I looked
+
+01:33:09.720 --> 01:33:09.900
+at the conference guidelines I always stay in
+
+01:33:13.160 --> 01:33:13.420
+dark mode and it said well use light mode for
+
+01:33:16.220 --> 01:33:16.420
+your presentation so okay I'll switch to
+
+01:33:19.280 --> 01:33:19.480
+light mode let me load a theme so I go into
+
+01:33:21.280 --> 01:33:21.780
+all the default themes and,
+
+01:33:23.900 --> 01:33:24.400
+you know, start going through the light ones
+
+01:33:28.080 --> 01:33:28.580
+and then I check all the faces and,
+
+01:33:31.120 --> 01:33:31.620
+you know, there are at least 3 to 5 faces
+
+01:33:35.160 --> 01:33:35.600
+that have nearly invisible text as a result
+
+01:33:38.480 --> 01:33:38.980
+of the background highlighting on them.
+
+01:33:40.080 --> 01:33:40.460
+And I'm like, you know,
+
+01:33:43.380 --> 01:33:43.680
+so there's low hanging fruit like that where
+
+01:33:46.840 --> 01:33:47.020
+people would deal with the structure of the
+
+01:33:49.400 --> 01:33:49.900
+menus, the actual faces,
+
+01:33:53.120 --> 01:33:53.620
+the themes, that don't have to do anything
+
+01:33:57.840 --> 01:33:58.060
+affecting core Emacs except make the
+
+01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:00.460
+presentation much better.
+
+01:34:03.380 --> 01:34:03.640
+[Speaker 7]: Yeah, definitely. If people want to send such
+
+01:34:06.160 --> 01:34:06.660
+polishing patches for various aspects,
+
+01:34:09.280 --> 01:34:09.520
+I spent some time making a new help screen.
+
+01:34:10.520 --> 01:34:10.960
+I don't know if you noticed,
+
+01:34:12.740 --> 01:34:13.040
+I don't know how many people press Control H,
+
+01:34:14.160 --> 01:34:14.660
+Control H on their keyboards,
+
+01:34:17.540 --> 01:34:17.720
+But it's like with new sections and it's
+
+01:34:18.480 --> 01:34:18.980
+sorted a little bit better.
+
+01:34:20.500 --> 01:34:20.640
+It didn't take much. I mean,
+
+01:34:21.660 --> 01:34:22.060
+it took a time obviously,
+
+01:34:23.940 --> 01:34:24.440
+but it's not like it required some fantastic
+
+01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:28.260
+technical knowledge or deep expertise in
+
+01:34:29.200 --> 01:34:29.700
+Emacs Lisp to do that.
+
+01:34:31.480 --> 01:34:31.980
+It's Basically anyone can do stuff like that.
+
+01:34:34.200 --> 01:34:34.340
+So definitely if you're interested in doing
+
+01:34:37.440 --> 01:34:37.680
+that type of work, start discussing with us.
+
+01:34:41.040 --> 01:34:41.440
+Let's talk about what we can do and get doing
+
+01:34:41.820 --> 01:34:42.320
+it, really.
+
+01:34:44.960 --> 01:34:45.140
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, this is exactly in line with your
+
+01:34:45.800 --> 01:34:46.240
+presentation from yesterday,
+
+01:34:47.720 --> 01:34:47.920
+Stefan, as well, because you were just
+
+01:34:50.160 --> 01:34:50.320
+inviting people who are not contributing to
+
+01:34:51.380 --> 01:34:51.740
+the core of Emacs to do so.
+
+01:34:53.200 --> 01:34:53.360
+You were talking to package developer on
+
+01:34:55.120 --> 01:34:55.440
+MailPub, but you were also talking just about
+
+01:34:58.200 --> 01:34:58.380
+the average Joe or Jane just doing their own
+
+01:34:59.580 --> 01:35:00.080
+things or encountering a problem.
+
+01:35:01.120 --> 01:35:01.280
+Now, yes, we talked about,
+
+01:35:02.800 --> 01:35:02.960
+oh, you need to build master and all this,
+
+01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:04.420
+but at the end of the day,
+
+01:35:06.680 --> 01:35:06.960
+low-hanging fruits like the ones Bob just
+
+01:35:09.840 --> 01:35:10.120
+described. If everyone does this at the end,
+
+01:35:11.280 --> 01:35:11.780
+you end up with something that is extremely
+
+01:35:13.520 --> 01:35:13.620
+polished. Perhaps you do not need to have a
+
+01:35:14.900 --> 01:35:15.140
+UX specialist to tell you that,
+
+01:35:18.220 --> 01:35:18.340
+oh, those 2 colors are actually very close to
+
+01:35:21.220 --> 01:35:21.600
+1 another. I think it's kind of a discussion
+
+01:35:23.580 --> 01:35:24.020
+about same defaults as well that you had
+
+01:35:25.080 --> 01:35:25.580
+yesterday. Ultimately,
+
+01:35:27.340 --> 01:35:27.600
+we do not need... Yes,
+
+01:35:28.780 --> 01:35:29.040
+we need more programmers in the world.
+
+01:35:30.480 --> 01:35:30.980
+We want more people to use Emacs.
+
+01:35:33.740 --> 01:35:34.240
+But you don't know. Like,
+
+01:35:36.220 --> 01:35:36.500
+is it going to be someone in computer science
+
+01:35:38.420 --> 01:35:38.620
+that's going to be the next giant on whose
+
+01:35:39.580 --> 01:35:39.880
+shoulders we're going to stand?
+
+01:35:41.003 --> 01:35:41.010
+[Speaker 3]: computer science? Is it going to be someone
+
+01:35:41.066 --> 01:35:41.074
+in computer science that's going to be the
+
+01:35:41.082 --> 01:35:41.090
+next giant
+
+01:35:41.137 --> 01:35:41.145
+[Speaker 1]: on whose shoulders we're going to stand?
+
+01:35:41.184 --> 01:35:41.192
+Is it someone who did not
+
+01:35:41.192 --> 01:35:41.200
+[Speaker 4]: Is it someone who did not study study
+
+01:35:42.660 --> 01:35:42.980
+computer science? Is it going to be someone
+
+01:35:44.060 --> 01:35:44.560
+who did something completely different?
+
+01:35:46.960 --> 01:35:47.120
+We do not know the prototypical user of
+
+01:35:49.280 --> 01:35:49.640
+Emacs. We have some idea about the fact that
+
+01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:51.940
+they might be using you know,
+
+01:35:52.580 --> 01:35:53.080
+Emacs for their programming,
+
+01:35:55.560 --> 01:35:55.680
+but more and more, and as is evidenced by the
+
+01:35:56.420 --> 01:35:56.920
+talks we received with EmacsConf,
+
+01:36:01.020 --> 01:36:01.360
+it's just people doing writing or taking
+
+01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:02.420
+notes for their classes.
+
+01:36:06.340 --> 01:36:06.540
+So it's really interesting to see how and to
+
+01:36:09.400 --> 01:36:09.480
+explore for us how we can give back to the
+
+01:36:11.180 --> 01:36:11.600
+core of Emacs in a way that is mutually
+
+01:36:12.360 --> 01:36:12.700
+constructive because again,
+
+01:36:14.440 --> 01:36:14.940
+to go back to the philosophy or the political
+
+01:36:17.400 --> 01:36:17.640
+agenda that we have is for more people to use
+
+01:36:19.700 --> 01:36:20.200
+software that is not the liberties.
+
+01:36:20.500 --> 01:36:21.000
+Exactly.
+
+01:36:24.140 --> 01:36:24.280
+[Speaker 3]: So right. Yeah. I mean,
+
+01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:26.100
+that's a good spot for me to come right back
+
+01:36:27.380 --> 01:36:27.720
+in. And that's exactly where I do.
+
+01:36:30.200 --> 01:36:30.420
+Right. Because that's that's what it's all
+
+01:36:33.040 --> 01:36:33.540
+about. In the In terms of a tool user,
+
+01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:37.100
+you know, the evolution of using tools as,
+
+01:36:38.620 --> 01:36:39.120
+you know, these creatures have fought,
+
+01:36:42.820 --> 01:36:43.220
+Emacs is fire. Emacs is the ability to learn
+
+01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:46.320
+languages, the ability to manipulate other
+
+01:36:48.140 --> 01:36:48.640
+tools. I mean, it's almost like,
+
+01:36:50.680 --> 01:36:51.140
+you know, God Emperor of Dune level,
+
+01:36:53.720 --> 01:36:54.140
+you know, some Frank Herbert type of powers
+
+01:36:56.480 --> 01:36:56.680
+that you have over your computer and you are
+
+01:36:58.460 --> 01:36:58.740
+not required to understand how all those
+
+01:37:02.440 --> 01:37:02.940
+things work. So from a support standpoint
+
+01:37:04.540 --> 01:37:04.840
+that puts us in a challenging position,
+
+01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:06.720
+right? I spend a lot of time on Pound Emacs
+
+01:37:07.760 --> 01:37:08.040
+and the questions that go by there,
+
+01:37:09.840 --> 01:37:09.960
+I feel bad for people that feel like they
+
+01:37:12.600 --> 01:37:12.720
+have to answer every question that goes by in
+
+01:37:14.060 --> 01:37:14.500
+the channel because no 1 could.
+
+01:37:16.640 --> 01:37:17.080
+No 1 can give an intelligent answer to the,
+
+01:37:18.040 --> 01:37:18.540
+you know, everything from,
+
+01:37:21.260 --> 01:37:21.440
+Hey, how do I change my default font on this
+
+01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:24.020
+operating system? You've never heard of to,
+
+01:37:26.140 --> 01:37:26.480
+you know, how do you know this list code?
+
+01:37:28.040 --> 01:37:28.340
+That's 40 lines long doesn't work.
+
+01:37:30.040 --> 01:37:30.260
+And I think it was a recent change that was
+
+01:37:31.720 --> 01:37:32.220
+made to the P case macro.
+
+01:37:39.480 --> 01:37:39.980
+Do you agree? Right? And as deep as that,
+
+01:37:42.740 --> 01:37:43.240
+well is, if you turn it 90 degrees,
+
+01:37:45.040 --> 01:37:45.200
+the Emacs is that kind of tool to the
+
+01:37:46.080 --> 01:37:46.400
+operating system level.
+
+01:37:48.800 --> 01:37:49.280
+It's letting me walk across to other systems,
+
+01:37:51.360 --> 01:37:51.780
+multi-hop, become the super user,
+
+01:37:55.120 --> 01:37:55.620
+right? And, you know, the just the power,
+
+01:37:57.600 --> 01:37:58.020
+the amplification of power there,
+
+01:38:02.320 --> 01:38:02.820
+it's like the lever combined with the magnet,
+
+01:38:08.140 --> 01:38:08.640
+etc, etc. I mean, just,
+
+01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:14.960
+yeah, I don't know. So I guess where we kind
+
+01:38:16.260 --> 01:38:16.640
+of jump off, where that gets stuck,
+
+01:38:18.580 --> 01:38:18.740
+right, is trying to change something like the
+
+01:38:19.760 --> 01:38:20.260
+defaults in the user experience.
+
+01:38:22.740 --> 01:38:23.240
+So I imagine, you know,
+
+01:38:26.580 --> 01:38:26.920
+we don't get 1 great idea about user
+
+01:38:28.020 --> 01:38:28.520
+experience, we'll get 3,
+
+01:38:30.240 --> 01:38:30.480
+right? And then Once again,
+
+01:38:32.980 --> 01:38:33.400
+we have to send our brave developers off to
+
+01:38:36.220 --> 01:38:36.440
+build 1 to 3 patches, some of which won't see
+
+01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:41.140
+the light of day. I think that's where the
+
+01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:42.420
+breakthrough is needed.
+
+01:38:46.680 --> 01:38:47.180
+Another evolution in the packaging thought,
+
+01:38:48.620 --> 01:38:49.120
+or maybe it's not packaging.
+
+01:38:50.920 --> 01:38:51.380
+Maybe it's the compilation step.
+
+01:38:52.800 --> 01:38:53.220
+Maybe it's the distribution step.
+
+01:38:56.120 --> 01:38:56.280
+Maybe we want the Debians of the world to
+
+01:38:59.220 --> 01:38:59.540
+deliver Emacs as 2 different pieces now.
+
+01:39:03.540 --> 01:39:03.700
+And there's a UX piece that we want you to
+
+01:39:05.280 --> 01:39:05.780
+package each 1 that you package,
+
+01:39:09.060 --> 01:39:09.240
+each 1 per window manager that you support or
+
+01:39:11.380 --> 01:39:11.660
+at the intersection of each window manager
+
+01:39:12.940 --> 01:39:13.300
+and display manager you port.
+
+01:39:15.200 --> 01:39:15.300
+And the other one's just the server and you
+
+01:39:17.040 --> 01:39:17.280
+don't even have to package that if I'm only
+
+01:39:19.680 --> 01:39:20.020
+offering the CLI or there's a you know like
+
+01:39:21.960 --> 01:39:22.280
+I'm making all this up and I can't code a
+
+01:39:23.760 --> 01:39:24.260
+single thing like what I just said,
+
+01:39:26.920 --> 01:39:27.420
+but I think that there's a technical
+
+01:39:31.640 --> 01:39:32.140
+opportunity. Pretty high level for technical
+
+01:39:35.020 --> 01:39:35.520
+there of just thinking about a way to accept
+
+01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:40.680
+contributions of experience with maybe a
+
+01:39:43.780 --> 01:39:44.280
+little less rigor and a little less ground
+
+01:39:44.900 --> 01:39:45.400
+into the marble.
+
+01:39:50.400 --> 01:39:50.800
+[Speaker 5]: Yeah it makes me think of somebody at work
+
+01:39:54.220 --> 01:39:54.340
+just brought up pair programming and he's in
+
+01:39:58.080 --> 01:39:58.580
+love with it. He wants to pair up and do it,
+
+01:40:01.120 --> 01:40:01.620
+which is not true of all programmers.
+
+01:40:05.800 --> 01:40:06.300
+But I said, okay, so you spearhead that.
+
+01:40:10.680 --> 01:40:10.900
+If we, I think it is a very high barrier to
+
+01:40:13.580 --> 01:40:13.780
+get your patches in because of course they
+
+01:40:15.420 --> 01:40:15.860
+need to meet the quality standard of Emacs.
+
+01:40:20.800 --> 01:40:21.300
+So if people who are doing day-to-day
+
+01:40:24.200 --> 01:40:24.700
+understand that process and can do it well,
+
+01:40:28.200 --> 01:40:28.540
+could work with some of the people who can't
+
+01:40:30.040 --> 01:40:30.540
+quite contribute at that level,
+
+01:40:35.020 --> 01:40:35.240
+but have ideas that are on the level that
+
+01:40:39.780 --> 01:40:40.280
+should go in, pairing them up could really
+
+01:40:41.420 --> 01:40:41.920
+move a lot of that forward.
+
+01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:46.500
+Like Lars, I don't know what his,
+
+01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:50.500
+I get the feeling maybe he's retired.
+
+01:40:54.960 --> 01:40:55.380
+So, you know, maybe he has some time,
+
+01:40:58.300 --> 01:40:58.640
+you know, and he's really good at going back
+
+01:41:00.320 --> 01:41:00.480
+in and saying, you know,
+
+01:41:02.400 --> 01:41:02.480
+these areas haven't gotten attention in a
+
+01:41:05.660 --> 01:41:05.900
+while, so I'm going to go kill some bugs and
+
+01:41:08.160 --> 01:41:08.660
+look at them and fix them up.
+
+01:41:13.640 --> 01:41:13.840
+So I would think he would be good to do that
+
+01:41:15.340 --> 01:41:15.480
+with someone. But you know,
+
+01:41:22.400 --> 01:41:22.740
+Again, I've got years of code that would just
+
+01:41:25.320 --> 01:41:25.760
+require somebody to work through it to update
+
+01:41:28.340 --> 01:41:28.660
+to the latest code base and diff against it.
+
+01:41:30.080 --> 01:41:30.480
+But it does things like,
+
+01:41:32.960 --> 01:41:33.420
+I mean, like if anybody used RMAIL anymore,
+
+01:41:36.200 --> 01:41:36.700
+I made the summary mode of RMAIL exactly
+
+01:41:40.080 --> 01:41:40.580
+compatible key-wise with the main buffer,
+
+01:41:43.140 --> 01:41:43.260
+which it never was, and fixed a number of
+
+01:41:46.120 --> 01:41:46.620
+other features. Dured made operations
+
+01:41:49.340 --> 01:41:49.480
+reversible, where you mark something and you
+
+01:41:51.420 --> 01:41:51.920
+unmark it, and you can go up and down.
+
+01:41:53.160 --> 01:41:53.480
+And there are all these little
+
+01:41:56.260 --> 01:41:56.760
+incompatibilities that kind of add up across
+
+01:42:00.120 --> 01:42:00.620
+time, and they never seem to get addressed.
+
+01:42:06.180 --> 01:42:06.480
+We could just fix them and people would start
+
+01:42:09.400 --> 01:42:09.640
+to say, oh, this is smoother and they are
+
+01:42:12.580 --> 01:42:12.820
+getting more of that experience because it
+
+01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:15.560
+feels like the systems maybe 80,
+
+01:42:20.740 --> 01:42:21.240
+85% of the way there in a lot of thoughtful
+
+01:42:26.040 --> 01:42:26.200
+design. But that last 15% could be the
+
+01:42:29.640 --> 01:42:30.100
+difference between an iPhone and an Android
+
+01:42:32.260 --> 01:42:32.760
+phone of usability-wise.
+
+01:42:38.720 --> 01:42:38.940
+So that's a thought. That's a
+
+01:42:41.100 --> 01:42:41.240
+[Speaker 3]: brilliant idea, and it probably can be
+
+01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:43.340
+applied far wider than emacs.
+
+01:42:46.060 --> 01:42:46.320
+That's something that that FSF should
+
+01:42:48.480 --> 01:42:48.980
+consider suggesting across,
+
+01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:50.420
+you know, GNU packages,
+
+01:42:54.280 --> 01:42:54.600
+for example, like a matchmaking project seems
+
+01:42:56.520 --> 01:42:56.880
+like something that FSF community teams
+
+01:43:04.020 --> 01:43:04.110
+should think about. Yeah,
+
+01:43:04.360 --> 01:43:04.520
+I was going
+
+01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:05.420
+[Speaker 1]: That's so... to say also,
+
+01:43:08.080 --> 01:43:08.140
+I noticed that the name Debian came up a
+
+01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:10.260
+while ago and now we were talking about
+
+01:43:14.540 --> 01:43:15.040
+programming and such and Mentoring maybe and
+
+01:43:17.960 --> 01:43:18.320
+Debian has this service or part of their site
+
+01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:20.100
+or community called Mentors.
+
+01:43:22.120 --> 01:43:22.620
+They have a website, mentors.debian.net,
+
+01:43:26.920 --> 01:43:27.100
+where the idea is that people who want to get
+
+01:43:28.100 --> 01:43:28.480
+into contributing to Debian,
+
+01:43:29.580 --> 01:43:30.080
+for example, to package things,
+
+01:43:33.200 --> 01:43:33.480
+but obviously don't have upload rights right
+
+01:43:35.720 --> 01:43:36.000
+away. This is where they can go to,
+
+01:43:38.460 --> 01:43:38.760
+and this is separate from their mailing list
+
+01:43:42.340 --> 01:43:42.580
+or bug trackers. They can basically build
+
+01:43:44.760 --> 01:43:45.260
+their changed packages and upload them here,
+
+01:43:48.220 --> 01:43:48.480
+and then Debian developers who have commit or
+
+01:43:51.380 --> 01:43:51.620
+upload rights to the Debian archive can go
+
+01:43:55.960 --> 01:43:56.120
+and review and give them feedback or ask them
+
+01:43:57.620 --> 01:43:58.120
+to change something or if it's good,
+
+01:44:01.620 --> 01:44:01.920
+then just easily upload the package right
+
+01:44:04.200 --> 01:44:04.440
+from there. And I wonder if it might make
+
+01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:08.000
+sense to have something kind of like that in
+
+01:44:10.360 --> 01:44:10.840
+like the context of Emacs or the GNU project
+
+01:44:13.360 --> 01:44:13.660
+as a whole, where we have like some kind of
+
+01:44:15.520 --> 01:44:16.020
+a, like loosely defined mentoring thing,
+
+01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:19.120
+where we could pair up people who are more
+
+01:44:20.500 --> 01:44:21.000
+experienced, who, for example,
+
+01:44:22.540 --> 01:44:22.740
+have commit rights in the Emacs core
+
+01:44:27.080 --> 01:44:27.240
+repository to match them up with someone who
+
+01:44:29.080 --> 01:44:29.260
+is just making your very first patches or
+
+01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:31.960
+contributions to Emacs or whatever other GNU
+
+01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:34.200
+package. Just some food for thought,
+
+01:44:38.040 --> 01:44:38.540
+[Speaker 5]: Yeah, sounds good.
+
+01:44:44.340 --> 01:44:44.600
+[Speaker 1]: I guess. Yeah, and then I guess 1 feature of
+
+01:44:47.360 --> 01:44:47.860
+such a system which would be nice is that it,
+
+01:44:49.200 --> 01:44:49.340
+at least in terms of, you know,
+
+01:44:50.380 --> 01:44:50.580
+the mentors that Debbie and that,
+
+01:44:52.200 --> 01:44:52.700
+that it has a web UI, which,
+
+01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:56.200
+is nice because mailing lists might be
+
+01:44:58.140 --> 01:44:58.380
+intimidating for someone who is just getting
+
+01:44:59.340 --> 01:44:59.840
+started, like in these communities.
+
+01:45:03.960 --> 01:45:04.200
+Or, you know, just making patches like that,
+
+01:45:05.440 --> 01:45:05.940
+or just have a series of concrete
+
+01:45:08.100 --> 01:45:08.320
+instructions. Like with mentors at
+
+01:45:11.100 --> 01:45:11.200
+Devian.net, I feel like you can't go wrong in
+
+01:45:13.820 --> 01:45:14.240
+terms of finding the steps of figuring out
+
+01:45:16.260 --> 01:45:16.500
+what you need to do to put together some
+
+01:45:19.040 --> 01:45:19.240
+change. Which I think the same idea could
+
+01:45:20.280 --> 01:45:20.740
+apply to Emacs, for example,
+
+01:45:20.860 --> 01:45:21.360
+as well.
+
+01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:24.960
+[Speaker 7]: I think this is a good point about lowering
+
+01:45:27.440 --> 01:45:27.620
+barriers, and how email is a barrier to
+
+01:45:28.860 --> 01:45:29.240
+people. I mean, so on the 1 hand,
+
+01:45:31.100 --> 01:45:31.320
+you have us guys on Emacs level,
+
+01:45:32.860 --> 01:45:33.360
+we're very used to the email workflow.
+
+01:45:35.140 --> 01:45:35.500
+Like we're not just using it for fun.
+
+01:45:37.040 --> 01:45:37.160
+You know what I mean? Like this is a
+
+01:45:38.320 --> 01:45:38.820
+workhorse. It really is.
+
+01:45:41.400 --> 01:45:41.840
+And it's tried, it's battled,
+
+01:45:42.900 --> 01:45:43.300
+tested. It has some quirks,
+
+01:45:45.140 --> 01:45:45.340
+but we know them extremely well on the other
+
+01:45:48.060 --> 01:45:48.380
+hand. So, but still we want more people
+
+01:45:50.700 --> 01:45:50.880
+involved, right? And we realized that,
+
+01:45:52.760 --> 01:45:52.960
+you know, times are changing as well.
+
+01:45:54.720 --> 01:45:54.900
+And people are more used to doing stuff from
+
+01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:56.140
+the web browser, perhaps.
+
+01:46:00.040 --> 01:46:00.320
+So we do want to move to a forge,
+
+01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:02.420
+or at least start looking into that.
+
+01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:04.060
+But there are some obstacles.
+
+01:46:06.060 --> 01:46:06.280
+So we are looking for volunteers to do that
+
+01:46:07.360 --> 01:46:07.580
+work. I'm not just saying it,
+
+01:46:08.640 --> 01:46:09.140
+like we are very serious.
+
+01:46:11.660 --> 01:46:11.760
+I'm very seriously asking people in the
+
+01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:13.020
+community to consider,
+
+01:46:14.920 --> 01:46:15.280
+hey, could you dedicate some time?
+
+01:46:18.660 --> 01:46:18.900
+I mean, it will take some dedication for sure
+
+01:46:20.600 --> 01:46:20.820
+it will take some time and it will take some
+
+01:46:23.040 --> 01:46:23.300
+describe probably even you know Be prepared
+
+01:46:24.760 --> 01:46:25.260
+to be frustrated at times right,
+
+01:46:26.980 --> 01:46:27.180
+but if you're serious about doing that type
+
+01:46:28.040 --> 01:46:28.260
+of work, okay now
+
+01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:32.900
+[Speaker 3]: I believe you Well, I'm just I'm just teasing
+
+01:46:35.900 --> 01:46:36.140
+but but but yes exactly any I mean it's it's
+
+01:46:38.560 --> 01:46:39.060
+not even a joke right Any serious undertaking
+
+01:46:41.420 --> 01:46:41.920
+having to do with any free software project,
+
+01:46:45.300 --> 01:46:45.600
+just because we are open to the entire world
+
+01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:48.160
+and we pride ourselves on trying to take
+
+01:46:50.020 --> 01:46:50.460
+seriously all input. And if it's a logical
+
+01:46:51.940 --> 01:46:52.040
+argument, then we'll go ahead and take the
+
+01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:53.200
+time to combat with you,
+
+01:46:54.960 --> 01:46:55.180
+even though the maintainer has 300 other
+
+01:46:57.260 --> 01:46:57.760
+things to do. Like, man,
+
+01:46:58.280 --> 01:46:58.740
+this
+
+01:47:00.020 --> 01:47:00.280
+[Speaker 7]: is just the way it is,
+
+01:47:02.840 --> 01:47:03.160
+right? It just, It's not like Emacs is way
+
+01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:07.460
+harder to change than any other project of
+
+01:47:08.680 --> 01:47:09.180
+its longevity and size.
+
+01:47:10.800 --> 01:47:11.100
+It's just these things take time.
+
+01:47:13.420 --> 01:47:13.920
+Try getting a change into Debian.
+
+01:47:15.060 --> 01:47:15.460
+That's an uphill battle.
+
+01:47:16.960 --> 01:47:17.460
+I don't even know where to start with that.
+
+01:47:19.540 --> 01:47:20.040
+That's huge, right? And I have tremendous
+
+01:47:21.640 --> 01:47:21.820
+respect for the people doing that type of
+
+01:47:22.760 --> 01:47:23.260
+work because it takes dedication,
+
+01:47:26.280 --> 01:47:26.440
+it takes effort. So we really need someone to
+
+01:47:27.180 --> 01:47:27.600
+step up from the community,
+
+01:47:29.760 --> 01:47:30.060
+I think, to be a champion for something like
+
+01:47:33.160 --> 01:47:33.600
+this and work together with us on Emacs Devil
+
+01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:38.200
+and off Emacs Devil, probably with me and Eli
+
+01:47:40.320 --> 01:47:40.600
+and perhaps some other people that could be
+
+01:47:41.820 --> 01:47:42.280
+in the mail thread, and we could coordinate
+
+01:47:44.620 --> 01:47:44.960
+this type of work. I would be super excited
+
+01:47:46.560 --> 01:47:47.060
+if someone wanted to get the ball rolling.
+
+01:47:48.480 --> 01:47:48.980
+I can't do everything.
+
+01:47:51.100 --> 01:47:51.340
+I wish I could. Like, I thought about it.
+
+01:47:52.840 --> 01:47:53.000
+Should I just put everything to the side and
+
+01:47:53.860 --> 01:47:54.000
+do this? But then, I mean,
+
+01:47:54.800 --> 01:47:55.080
+there are some, there are other
+
+01:47:56.040 --> 01:47:56.400
+responsibilities as well.
+
+01:47:57.740 --> 01:47:58.040
+So we need someone to step up.
+
+01:47:58.520 --> 01:47:59.020
+We need help here.
+
+01:48:03.220 --> 01:48:03.460
+[Speaker 3]: you're gonna speak. I was totally gonna pick
+
+01:48:04.120 --> 01:48:04.620
+on you. Go ahead.
+
+01:48:05.540 --> 01:48:05.820
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so. Oh, good, Thanks,
+
+01:48:06.540 --> 01:48:06.860
+yeah, I was just gonna say,
+
+01:48:08.460 --> 01:48:08.960
+yeah, I echo Stefan's sentiments.
+
+01:48:11.680 --> 01:48:11.960
+And that, yeah, in terms of like maybe
+
+01:48:14.020 --> 01:48:14.080
+experimenting with a different Forge or a
+
+01:48:15.280 --> 01:48:15.600
+better Forge and like,
+
+01:48:16.124 --> 01:48:16.296
+you know, supplementing Savannah.
+
+01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:17.140
+And supplementing Savannah.
+
+01:48:20.860 --> 01:48:20.920
+I actually did some initial work a couple of
+
+01:48:23.240 --> 01:48:23.740
+months ago to get a SourceFed instance
+
+01:48:24.860 --> 01:48:25.360
+installed for the new project.
+
+01:48:28.440 --> 01:48:28.660
+And I've done some work on and off,
+
+01:48:29.340 --> 01:48:29.760
+but then life happens,
+
+01:48:32.140 --> 01:48:32.640
+especially from September onwards.
+
+01:48:35.240 --> 01:48:35.500
+But even from earlier in the year,
+
+01:48:36.460 --> 01:48:36.960
+the project has been semi-dormant,
+
+01:48:38.740 --> 01:48:39.240
+but I have been meaning to get to that.
+
+01:48:42.740 --> 01:48:42.900
+So I'm like 1 such person who's interested in
+
+01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:44.960
+that type of work and driving it forward and
+
+01:48:47.640 --> 01:48:47.880
+I would love you know if anyone's and anyone
+
+01:48:50.820 --> 01:48:50.980
+else has the kind of time and energy and the
+
+01:48:52.760 --> 01:48:53.260
+interest to help with something like that.
+
+01:48:55.280 --> 01:48:55.780
+Yes, please reach out to all of us,
+
+01:48:56.880 --> 01:48:57.380
+to Emacs core developers,
+
+01:48:58.100 --> 01:48:58.600
+of course, and to myself.
+
+01:49:01.840 --> 01:49:02.340
+This is something that could be very useful,
+
+01:49:04.960 --> 01:49:05.460
+not just for GNU Emacs and Emacs developers,
+
+01:49:09.760 --> 01:49:10.240
+but also for any other GNU package as well.
+
+01:49:13.040 --> 01:49:13.480
+So yeah, that's 1 area of potential
+
+01:49:15.660 --> 01:49:16.060
+contribution and 1 thing that we sort of,
+
+01:49:17.860 --> 01:49:18.340
+I guess, regularly meet with the FSF
+
+01:49:20.140 --> 01:49:20.640
+sysadmins to discuss these kinds of projects
+
+01:49:22.120 --> 01:49:22.620
+and things as Corwin would know.
+
+01:49:24.520 --> 01:49:24.720
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, that's kind of, I mean,
+
+01:49:26.280 --> 01:49:26.420
+you knew exactly where I was going to,
+
+01:49:27.960 --> 01:49:28.420
+and I'm glad that you volunteered yourself
+
+01:49:30.040 --> 01:49:30.540
+personally because that's the best choice.
+
+01:49:32.320 --> 01:49:32.820
+If you're hearing this and you're thinking,
+
+01:49:35.760 --> 01:49:36.260
+you know, maybe I should do some sysop stuff,
+
+01:49:38.200 --> 01:49:38.700
+literally reach out to Amin.
+
+01:49:41.040 --> 01:49:41.420
+And because it's complicated,
+
+01:49:43.040 --> 01:49:43.320
+there are a lot of projects to volunteer for.
+
+01:49:44.120 --> 01:49:44.620
+They're all very worthy.
+
+01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:49.020
+And it's sort of political to figure out what
+
+01:49:52.760 --> 01:49:53.000
+we're gonna try to change for whom first to
+
+01:49:55.940 --> 01:49:56.260
+demonstrate we can do all the things we wanna
+
+01:49:58.320 --> 01:49:58.440
+do to make it better without losing all the
+
+01:50:00.340 --> 01:50:00.540
+things that are important about how it is
+
+01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:04.480
+today. And we'll do it in a measured way like
+
+01:50:06.500 --> 01:50:06.760
+everybody's just like room full of rocking
+
+01:50:09.640 --> 01:50:09.780
+chairs everybody's got a long tail it's a
+
+01:50:12.340 --> 01:50:12.620
+hard project but you will do something that
+
+01:50:15.380 --> 01:50:15.540
+just a lot like as a Savannah hacker which I
+
+01:50:17.920 --> 01:50:18.240
+am with Amin So that's how I know about his
+
+01:50:20.080 --> 01:50:20.340
+work on that project. We worked together on
+
+01:50:22.300 --> 01:50:22.800
+the Savannah Forge. I'm aware of his work
+
+01:50:26.660 --> 01:50:26.980
+piloting SourceHut recently and just with a
+
+01:50:29.020 --> 01:50:29.240
+working group there to look at the next
+
+01:50:30.540 --> 01:50:31.040
+generation of forges for GNU.
+
+01:50:34.160 --> 01:50:34.340
+Emacs of course as a GNU package could go do
+
+01:50:36.540 --> 01:50:36.820
+its own thing. FFS would most likely give
+
+01:50:38.360 --> 01:50:38.560
+cash to go do its own thing,
+
+01:50:39.720 --> 01:50:39.860
+even if it didn't like it.
+
+01:50:41.140 --> 01:50:41.520
+We know, you know, as a,
+
+01:50:42.800 --> 01:50:43.260
+like if I put on, I'm not FSF,
+
+01:50:44.260 --> 01:50:44.600
+but if I put on that hat,
+
+01:50:45.800 --> 01:50:46.300
+I imagine that we must know.
+
+01:50:50.020 --> 01:50:50.200
+Emacs is a flagship thing that people in the
+
+01:50:52.420 --> 01:50:52.800
+real world depend on. If I get this ancient
+
+01:50:55.320 --> 01:50:55.820
+computer, I get a working Linux distribution
+
+01:50:59.340 --> 01:50:59.500
+and Emacs. Maybe it's not Microsoft Word as a
+
+01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:01.300
+word processor, but you guys,
+
+01:51:03.080 --> 01:51:03.580
+you can learn a language on it for sure,
+
+01:51:05.600 --> 01:51:05.800
+you know And you can do your homework on it
+
+01:51:08.300 --> 01:51:08.680
+and you know It's it makes your you can edit
+
+01:51:10.580 --> 01:51:10.960
+things and then you can edit your system
+
+01:51:13.900 --> 01:51:14.340
+files and teach yourself how to manage a GNU
+
+01:51:17.860 --> 01:51:18.040
+system and you can You know so Emacs is
+
+01:51:19.540 --> 01:51:19.840
+really powerful as a practical tool.
+
+01:51:21.560 --> 01:51:21.720
+Like I keep coming back to that point when I
+
+01:51:25.040 --> 01:51:25.320
+think about Emacs, like I really put it as
+
+01:51:27.380 --> 01:51:27.880
+like, it's an important tool on the like
+
+01:51:31.780 --> 01:51:32.080
+humans inventing tools level just because it
+
+01:51:35.080 --> 01:51:35.280
+lets me make this editor into whatever I need
+
+01:51:37.580 --> 01:51:38.080
+it to be to get my actual work done.
+
+01:51:39.520 --> 01:51:39.860
+Whether that's getting the length,
+
+01:51:41.460 --> 01:51:41.600
+maybe that's making the font big enough that
+
+01:51:43.260 --> 01:51:43.380
+I can see it, or making it easy enough to
+
+01:51:44.760 --> 01:51:45.060
+change from this font to that font,
+
+01:51:45.920 --> 01:51:46.420
+changing the background colors,
+
+01:51:47.960 --> 01:51:48.460
+like your basic vision,
+
+01:51:49.960 --> 01:51:50.460
+accessibility issues, right?
+
+01:51:52.740 --> 01:51:53.120
+All, you know, solved,
+
+01:51:55.080 --> 01:51:55.320
+I can bake that customization in and I can
+
+01:51:56.320 --> 01:51:56.580
+pretty much depend on,
+
+01:51:57.900 --> 01:51:58.400
+no matter what we change in Emacs,
+
+01:51:59.760 --> 01:52:00.140
+I'm gonna accept the new version,
+
+01:52:01.920 --> 01:52:02.220
+it's gonna be on the next computer I get,
+
+01:52:03.840 --> 01:52:04.000
+I'm going to install the package and my
+
+01:52:05.920 --> 01:52:06.100
+configuration that sets all that up will be
+
+01:52:10.960 --> 01:52:11.100
+there for me. Right? It's like back to
+
+01:52:13.300 --> 01:52:13.780
+Stefan's point, what, 6 and a half hours ago,
+
+01:52:16.120 --> 01:52:16.620
+I mean, you know, 20 minutes ago about
+
+01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:24.180
+just... Oh gosh, I lost it.
+
+01:52:27.980 --> 01:52:28.260
+Boy, I really thought I had handed that
+
+01:52:29.020 --> 01:52:29.520
+neatly back to you.
+
+01:52:36.040 --> 01:52:36.220
+[Speaker 1]: No problem, Yeah, I think we're in general in
+
+01:52:36.220 --> 01:52:36.720
+agreement.
+
+01:52:41.980 --> 01:52:42.480
+[Speaker 4]: If we are now in the realm of Concord,
+
+01:52:44.800 --> 01:52:44.960
+of harmony, and the realm of midnight in
+
+01:52:47.560 --> 01:52:47.720
+Europe, Should we bring this discussion to a
+
+01:52:49.200 --> 01:52:49.460
+close or we could go all night,
+
+01:52:51.180 --> 01:52:51.500
+but I'll need to explain to my employer why
+
+01:52:52.720 --> 01:52:53.220
+my eyes are barely open tomorrow.
+
+01:52:56.600 --> 01:52:57.100
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea.
+
+01:52:59.960 --> 01:53:00.460
+I see some folks starting to slowly sign off.
+
+01:53:02.740 --> 01:53:03.060
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, also, you know, Leo,
+
+01:53:04.680 --> 01:53:05.180
+you could leave and just miss out.
+
+01:53:05.460 --> 01:53:05.960
+What?
+
+01:53:13.620 --> 01:53:13.820
+[Speaker 7]: Hey, Sasha, can I say something like what an
+
+01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:16.020
+amazing job with everything you're doing in
+
+01:53:16.960 --> 01:53:17.300
+the community over the years?
+
+01:53:18.820 --> 01:53:19.240
+I'm so impressed with Emacs News.
+
+01:53:22.020 --> 01:53:22.160
+What a great resource to stay up to date in
+
+01:53:24.720 --> 01:53:24.760
+Emacs. Just really hats off to you for a
+
+01:53:25.080 --> 01:53:25.580
+whole lot.
+
+01:53:26.680 --> 01:53:26.880
+[Speaker 3]: Thank you
+
+01:53:29.440 --> 01:53:29.700
+[Speaker 0]: very much. It actually turned out to be quite
+
+01:53:31.840 --> 01:53:32.220
+timely that John Wheatley had suggested it
+
+01:53:35.020 --> 01:53:35.140
+back when he was maintainer because when I
+
+01:53:36.980 --> 01:53:37.200
+had the kiddo, I suddenly had 0 time to
+
+01:53:38.000 --> 01:53:38.440
+actually write new things.
+
+01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:39.840
+But reading things is fine.
+
+01:53:41.820 --> 01:53:42.040
+I can just speed read all the Reddit things
+
+01:53:43.160 --> 01:53:43.660
+and put the links together.
+
+01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:46.300
+So I'm very glad that Emacs news is helpful.
+
+01:53:49.080 --> 01:53:49.580
+[Speaker 7]: it really is, yeah.
+
+01:53:55.380 --> 01:53:55.880
+[Speaker 3]: It is, So, okay, now let's try to go for our
+
+01:54:00.040 --> 01:54:00.480
+closing thoughts here while Leo's still here.
+
+01:54:01.740 --> 01:54:02.140
+And then if we wanna keep rolling,
+
+01:54:04.760 --> 01:54:05.260
+even after Leo drops, we won't tell him,
+
+01:54:06.420 --> 01:54:06.920
+we'll tell him we're stuck.
+
+01:54:12.380 --> 01:54:12.540
+[Speaker 4]: I guess that was a beacon to me to perhaps go
+
+01:54:14.140 --> 01:54:14.440
+for the second close of the day I've already
+
+01:54:18.080 --> 01:54:18.380
+done it I can do it again But I will prove
+
+01:54:19.300 --> 01:54:19.480
+Sasha wrong this time.
+
+01:54:21.020 --> 01:54:21.520
+I will miss out if need be because really,
+
+01:54:24.160 --> 01:54:24.660
+I have been very impressed with the sleep
+
+01:54:28.700 --> 01:54:29.120
+record that you had and I am very envious
+
+01:54:32.040 --> 01:54:32.220
+right now of your past ability to sleep more
+
+01:54:33.160 --> 01:54:33.380
+than 9 hours per night.
+
+01:54:35.440 --> 01:54:35.560
+And I wish I would be able to go back to
+
+01:54:37.300 --> 01:54:37.800
+this. But anyway, folks,
+
+01:54:38.560 --> 01:54:39.060
+I'm going to drop out.
+
+01:54:40.520 --> 01:54:40.680
+People might hang out for a little while
+
+01:54:42.360 --> 01:54:42.520
+longer. Bear in mind that Sasha might get
+
+01:54:44.480 --> 01:54:44.980
+called at any point to go take care of Kido.
+
+01:54:47.220 --> 01:54:47.720
+So this might wrap up very fast afterwards.
+
+01:54:49.780 --> 01:54:49.920
+But at any rate, it was my pleasure to be the
+
+01:54:51.420 --> 01:54:51.820
+host today. Stefan, thank you for joining.
+
+01:54:53.520 --> 01:54:54.020
+Bob, thank you for joining and interacting
+
+01:54:56.040 --> 01:54:56.320
+with us and making this a little more
+
+01:54:58.860 --> 01:54:59.020
+interactive and more plural than just the
+
+01:55:01.260 --> 01:55:01.760
+co-organizers. And on that note,
+
+01:55:03.640 --> 01:55:03.900
+I will be leaving. So have a wonderful night,
+
+01:55:05.860 --> 01:55:06.020
+everyone. And we'll see you next year for the
+
+01:55:06.740 --> 01:55:07.240
+next edition, potentially.
+
+01:55:09.560 --> 01:55:10.060
+[Speaker 3]: Thank you, Leo. You're my hero.
+
+01:55:11.580 --> 01:55:12.040
+I take everything I said on mumble back.
+
+01:55:12.280 --> 01:55:12.780
+You're amazing.
+
+01:55:14.840 --> 01:55:15.340
+[Speaker 4]: bye everyone.
+
+01:55:16.400 --> 01:55:16.680
+[Speaker 1]: All right, Thank you all.
+
+01:55:17.960 --> 01:55:18.220
+Take care. Bye. I will
+
+01:55:20.200 --> 01:55:20.580
+[Speaker 6]: also say bye bye. I also need to go to bed.
+
+01:55:22.200 --> 01:55:22.700
+Thank you all for this cool conference and
+
+01:55:24.920 --> 01:55:25.080
+hopefully we're here through the year and at
+
+01:55:25.900 --> 01:55:26.400
+least in 1 year.
+
+01:55:30.900 --> 01:55:31.400
+[Speaker 3]: You've probably made the rest of the rest of
+
+01:55:34.440 --> 01:55:34.700
+the victorious. You really stepped up.
+
+01:55:38.300 --> 01:55:38.800
+[Speaker 5]: your contributions.
+
+01:55:38.980 --> 01:55:39.220
+[Speaker 3]: Thanks so much for Yeah,
+
+01:55:40.580 --> 01:55:40.960
+[Speaker 1]: thanks so much for being a part of it,
+
+01:55:41.720 --> 01:55:42.100
+specifically you, Floey,
+
+01:55:43.480 --> 01:55:43.980
+and just everyone. Thank you all.
+
+01:55:48.180 --> 01:55:48.420
+[Speaker 6]: Have a nice day or night and we'll hear each
+
+01:55:48.740 --> 01:55:49.240
+other. Bye!
+
+01:55:51.220 --> 01:55:51.420
+[Speaker 1]: See you. Okay, well,
+
+01:55:51.880 --> 01:55:52.360
+[Speaker 3]: Thanks, Zen. I'll go next.
+
+01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:54.300
+I'm the next newest, I think.
+
+01:55:59.640 --> 01:56:00.140
+Well, I want to say also,
+
+01:56:01.800 --> 01:56:02.300
+you know, Bob and Stefan,
+
+01:56:03.660 --> 01:56:03.760
+thank you so much for jumping in and
+
+01:56:04.860 --> 01:56:05.360
+participating in the closing remarks.
+
+01:56:06.700 --> 01:56:07.200
+I too think it's a lot of,
+
+01:56:08.560 --> 01:56:08.960
+like, it's fun to just,
+
+01:56:10.760 --> 01:56:11.260
+like, share the buzz after the convention.
+
+01:56:13.260 --> 01:56:13.460
+We've got all these millions of ideas and
+
+01:56:16.120 --> 01:56:16.480
+then to have a group, a little group think
+
+01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:19.460
+about what we're walking away from that with.
+
+01:56:22.360 --> 01:56:22.540
+What is the temperature of the fire in your
+
+01:56:24.360 --> 01:56:24.860
+belly? And it's just...
+
+01:56:28.440 --> 01:56:28.740
+I mean, this is 1 of the highlights of my
+
+01:56:30.200 --> 01:56:30.700
+year in a way that it's just...
+
+01:56:31.780 --> 01:56:31.970
+I don't think other people...
+
+01:56:33.880 --> 01:56:34.120
+I don't think I dare explain it to other
+
+01:56:35.880 --> 01:56:36.020
+people. I think my wife understands and I
+
+01:56:40.600 --> 01:56:40.860
+will do. So thank you very much for this
+
+01:56:42.340 --> 01:56:42.840
+conference and the opportunity to participate
+
+01:56:45.540 --> 01:56:46.040
+in it. You know, just the conversation,
+
+01:56:48.540 --> 01:56:49.040
+how vibrant the chat is on IRC,
+
+01:56:52.080 --> 01:56:52.580
+how the variety of talks,
+
+01:56:54.140 --> 01:56:54.640
+some of the talks that look like television
+
+01:56:59.380 --> 01:56:59.540
+content to me and others that look a lot like
+
+01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:03.960
+my talk. And working through your slides and
+
+01:57:06.100 --> 01:57:06.280
+doing it live and you know I appreciate that
+
+01:57:10.240 --> 01:57:10.380
+we make a place for all those levels and and
+
+01:57:12.720 --> 01:57:13.220
+show people how to improve our craft as well.
+
+01:57:26.140 --> 01:57:26.460
+I'm not actually dropping or going anywhere.
+
+01:57:29.040 --> 01:57:29.220
+I'll continue to talk about eMAX until I get
+
+01:57:30.860 --> 01:57:31.000
+the dinner time bell. I've probably got an
+
+01:57:40.240 --> 01:57:40.580
+hour here. I'll tell you what will happen
+
+01:57:42.040 --> 01:57:42.160
+though is I'm guaranteed to light a
+
+01:57:43.780 --> 01:57:43.940
+cigarette. You can already see me kind of
+
+01:57:45.860 --> 01:57:46.160
+hovering about my room because I'm trying to
+
+01:57:47.440 --> 01:57:47.780
+avoid like smoking on camera.
+
+01:57:49.300 --> 01:57:49.540
+I don't know where that came from.
+
+01:57:52.360 --> 01:57:52.860
+I'm giving it up in approximately 5 seconds.
+
+01:57:58.980 --> 01:57:59.480
+[Speaker 7]: Yeah I'm gonna hop off.
+
+01:58:00.800 --> 01:58:01.300
+It's possibly right here.
+
+01:58:02.220 --> 01:58:02.720
+I'll work tomorrow.
+
+01:58:06.200 --> 01:58:06.380
+[Speaker 3]: I took the next 2 days off.
+
+01:58:07.320 --> 01:58:07.820
+I'm actually going camping,
+
+01:58:11.040 --> 01:58:11.280
+Stefan. I know I've learned that this
+
+01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:13.300
+conference leaves me completely emotionally
+
+01:58:16.360 --> 01:58:16.860
+exhausted. I just like,
+
+01:58:18.700 --> 01:58:19.140
+I don't know, I watch all,
+
+01:58:20.820 --> 01:58:21.320
+I feel like I just connect with all the,
+
+01:58:23.440 --> 01:58:23.640
+like it's this time where I connect with all
+
+01:58:25.260 --> 01:58:25.580
+these people that spend as much time thinking
+
+01:58:26.580 --> 01:58:27.080
+about Emacs as I do.
+
+01:58:31.480 --> 01:58:31.760
+[Speaker 0]: All right, so maybe we should wrap up before
+
+01:58:32.440 --> 01:58:32.940
+you have like, you know,
+
+01:58:35.380 --> 01:58:35.880
+that overflow error and just...
+
+01:58:38.000 --> 01:58:38.500
+[Speaker 3]: In buster thrill, okay.
+
+01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:41.980
+Thank you
+
+01:58:45.200 --> 01:58:45.440
+[Speaker 0]: so much, everyone. Let us actually wrap up
+
+01:58:47.360 --> 01:58:47.440
+then. Everyone can find the recordings if you
+
+01:58:48.640 --> 01:58:49.140
+want to keep the conversation going.
+
+01:58:51.900 --> 01:58:52.120
+There are meetups, there are people's blog
+
+01:58:54.240 --> 01:58:54.520
+posts and video channels and mailing lists
+
+01:58:55.320 --> 01:58:55.820
+and all those other things.
+
+01:58:58.820 --> 01:58:59.180
+I often I list a lot of meetups in Emacs news
+
+01:59:00.680 --> 01:59:01.080
+so that's another great way to stay connected
+
+01:59:02.560 --> 01:59:03.060
+through the year and we hope to see everybody
+
+01:59:04.740 --> 01:59:05.240
+next year at EmacsConf 2024.
+
+01:59:11.260 --> 01:59:11.420
+[Speaker 4]: Thanks Sasha for the send off and goodbye to
+
+01:59:16.740 --> 01:59:16.940
+everyone. Oh Sasha I think you were muted but
+
+01:59:18.340 --> 01:59:18.520
+yes I was still there I assume that's what
+
+01:59:21.220 --> 01:59:21.720
+you just said. I lied.
+
+01:59:23.680 --> 01:59:23.920
+I was staying around like Corwin was.
+
+01:59:25.440 --> 01:59:25.580
+I just said goodbye, but then I wait in the
+
+01:59:26.520 --> 01:59:27.020
+bushes, waiting for the ambush.
+
+01:59:29.340 --> 01:59:29.840
+[Speaker 3]: Well I'm personally surprised,
+
+01:59:32.780 --> 01:59:33.040
+speaking for myself. I wouldn't have guessed
+
+01:59:36.040 --> 01:59:36.340
+that would happen. All right,
+
+01:59:36.340 --> 01:59:36.580
+[Speaker 4]: The perfect moment. well,
+
+01:59:37.360 --> 01:59:37.680
+I guess that's a wrap then.
+
+01:59:39.060 --> 01:59:39.560
+Thank you, everyone, and see you next year.
+
+01:59:43.440 --> 01:59:43.740
+[Speaker 3]: I thought we were clear like 10 minutes ago.
+
+01:59:45.340 --> 01:59:45.840
+Are we not? We are, right?
+
+01:59:47.400 --> 01:59:47.780
+We're definitely clear.
+
+01:59:48.040 --> 01:59:48.220
+[Speaker 5]: OK, I'm
+
+01:59:49.240 --> 01:59:49.440
+[Speaker 3]: hanging up now. Good night.
+
+01:59:50.640 --> 01:59:51.140
+It was wonderful to meet you.
+
+01:59:51.900 --> 01:59:52.400
+[Speaker 7]: Take care Corwin
+
+01:59:56.520 --> 01:59:57.020
+[Speaker 4]: Bye Stefan. Bye. Bye all
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4f89a184
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,3803 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.540
+[Speaker 0]: Here.
+
+00:00:05.140 --> 00:00:05.440
+[Speaker 1]: All right. Yeah. So thanks,
+
+00:00:06.279 --> 00:00:06.779
+Fermin, for the great talk.
+
+00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:08.540
+People have questions,
+
+00:00:12.179 --> 00:00:12.380
+please post them on the pad or the IRC as
+
+00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:13.759
+well and we'll take them up.
+
+00:00:17.240 --> 00:00:17.480
+[Speaker 2]: Thank you very much. The guests will be here
+
+00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:22.220
+to answer questions. Let's see.
+
+00:00:23.560 --> 00:00:24.060
+Yep.
+
+00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:28.220
+[Speaker 1]: And also, Fermin, if you later want to
+
+00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:31.160
+clarify anything or fix any URLs or such,
+
+00:00:32.860 --> 00:00:33.000
+you're always welcome to do that either like
+
+00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:36.140
+on the Wiki page, or if you like email any of
+
+00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:37.840
+the organizers, they should be able to help
+
+00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:38.900
+with that as well.
+
+00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:41.500
+[Speaker 2]: Okay. Yeah, I put the wrong URL.
+
+00:00:46.020 --> 00:00:46.360
+Yeah, not a big deal really,
+
+00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:48.980
+if you look it up. Yeah,
+
+00:00:50.940 --> 00:00:51.440
+that's really better. Thank you very much.
+
+00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:57.420
+Checking, no questions.
+
+00:00:58.780 --> 00:00:59.280
+Very good to be in touch.
+
+00:01:17.220 --> 00:01:17.360
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, we have a question here in the big blue
+
+00:01:17.720 --> 00:01:18.220
+button chat.
+
+00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:22.320
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, public chat. I see.
+
+00:01:26.380 --> 00:01:26.600
+Is LEM an acronym? I think it is,
+
+00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:33.080
+but I never remember. The complete name is
+
+00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:36.660
+like something... It's also a circle,
+
+00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:39.440
+like, you know, a self-referencing,
+
+00:01:41.320 --> 00:01:41.820
+you know, recursive name.
+
+00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:43.400
+I never remember it, sorry.
+
+00:01:45.860 --> 00:01:46.360
+It's like... Yeah, someone...
+
+00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:51.080
+Okay, someone asked about the DEM community,
+
+00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:56.700
+how big it is. So I don't remember,
+
+00:01:57.500 --> 00:01:57.720
+to answer the question,
+
+00:01:58.440 --> 00:01:58.740
+I don't remember the acronym,
+
+00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:01.140
+but it is an acronym. I just never...
+
+00:02:04.700 --> 00:02:05.060
+And it's not written anywhere,
+
+00:02:06.380 --> 00:02:06.880
+I think, or someone...
+
+00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:09.840
+I never check it. So I...
+
+00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:13.220
+[Speaker 0]: I forgot.
+
+00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:15.820
+[Speaker 2]: My maintainer told me once and then So,
+
+00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:17.900
+whole large, does Leia have a package
+
+00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:20.300
+manager? We do have a package manager,
+
+00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:22.400
+funnily enough. We use the QuickLisp
+
+00:02:26.200 --> 00:02:26.700
+infrastructure to get packages,
+
+00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:30.080
+so it's very easy to install packages.
+
+00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:33.840
+So basically, we don't have a package manager
+
+00:02:35.740 --> 00:02:36.240
+as in Emacs, half a packet.l.
+
+00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:39.400
+We're using the same common list
+
+00:02:41.180 --> 00:02:41.460
+infrastructure to provide the different
+
+00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:46.060
+packages. We also have a talk with the
+
+00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:47.620
+Ultralisp, which is like a,
+
+00:02:48.640 --> 00:02:48.900
+you know, QuickLisp is like,
+
+00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:50.520
+you can think quickly of Melpa.
+
+00:02:52.540 --> 00:02:53.040
+Ultralisp is like a fast Melpa,
+
+00:02:54.440 --> 00:02:54.900
+very fast Melpa, that every,
+
+00:02:58.460 --> 00:02:58.660
+I think every day you can get a package from
+
+00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:01.880
+them. And We have a tag system that you can
+
+00:03:02.920 --> 00:03:03.420
+submit a package and get a tag,
+
+00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:08.360
+and Theory can download those packages with
+
+00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:13.640
+the lem tag. So the thing is,
+
+00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:17.440
+it's not yet, it doesn't have a user
+
+00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:18.900
+interface to install packages.
+
+00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:22.520
+Still, it's 2 external packages.
+
+00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:25.920
+For now, imagine this is like the early
+
+00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:27.960
+Emacs, right? Everything is going to the core
+
+00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:29.540
+for now, because we need that functionality.
+
+00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:32.680
+In the future, we probably will split it up
+
+00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:37.620
+way more. But let me first answer a question
+
+00:03:42.440 --> 00:03:42.740
+in the other part. How large is the LEN
+
+00:03:44.440 --> 00:03:44.720
+community? Hope it's a chance of survival
+
+00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:47.860
+long term. So we are a very small community,
+
+00:03:51.260 --> 00:03:51.760
+mostly because Sasaki-san,
+
+00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:54.620
+the main developers of the community,
+
+00:03:57.160 --> 00:03:57.440
+are from Japan and some of them,
+
+00:03:58.620 --> 00:03:59.120
+or most of them, don't know English.
+
+00:04:01.640 --> 00:04:01.960
+At the beginning, LEM was a very
+
+00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:05.220
+Japanese-centric tooling because barrier of
+
+00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.460
+language, most of the users are from Japan.
+
+00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:09.140
+So different communities.
+
+00:04:12.040 --> 00:04:12.260
+And also, I don't know why,
+
+00:04:13.100 --> 00:04:13.520
+but the main maintainer,
+
+00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:18.079
+which is Asaki-san, very good guy and a very,
+
+00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:19.579
+very talented developer.
+
+00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:22.280
+He doesn't like to, you know,
+
+00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:25.020
+at first the project was all in Japanese,
+
+00:04:27.100 --> 00:04:27.260
+so he doesn't care if someone uses the
+
+00:04:28.520 --> 00:04:29.020
+project or not. He's more focused on the,
+
+00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:32.560
+I guess, quality of the features of it.
+
+00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:36.240
+So that creates a problem that doesn't really
+
+00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:39.000
+mind the community. So the community doesn't
+
+00:04:41.640 --> 00:04:41.760
+mind in a good way. It's to focus more on
+
+00:04:43.440 --> 00:04:43.940
+technicality rather than the user,
+
+00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:46.800
+which I mean, I cannot blame him.
+
+00:04:49.540 --> 00:04:49.700
+It's very hard work to build an Emacs and
+
+00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:53.040
+editor from scratch. It's not a trivial task.
+
+00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:56.660
+So yeah, we're a very small community.
+
+00:04:58.660 --> 00:04:58.940
+But I think the chance of survival is very
+
+00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:01.640
+good because LEM is written in ANSI Common
+
+00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.040
+Lisp, so it should be used in any...
+
+00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:07.940
+Well, it works in a lot of Common Lisp
+
+00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:10.900
+implementation. For people who don't know,
+
+00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:12.400
+Common Lisp is a language that was
+
+00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:13.640
+standardized in the 94.
+
+00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:14.840
+I explained that in the talk,
+
+00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:16.160
+but I'll say it again.
+
+00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:18.580
+So, if Common Lisp exists,
+
+00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:21.700
+in theory, LEM should also exist.
+
+00:05:24.340 --> 00:05:24.840
+And also if nCursor doesn't break or doesn't
+
+00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:28.060
+stop to exist, which is even less likely.
+
+00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:30.900
+So that's the main idea.
+
+00:05:33.460 --> 00:05:33.740
+And you can use LEM for very good Common Lisp
+
+00:05:36.380 --> 00:05:36.600
+development already. If Common Lisp doesn't
+
+00:05:39.440 --> 00:05:39.940
+change that much, it should disappear.
+
+00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:43.220
+We are not bound to any company or any...
+
+00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:46.540
+Even Sasaki-san, God forbid,
+
+00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:48.220
+disappears instantaneously.
+
+00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:50.740
+There are a few people,
+
+00:05:52.260 --> 00:05:52.440
+me included, that know very well the code
+
+00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:54.520
+base and we can continue the development.
+
+00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:56.720
+So it's not like 1, there's no one-man
+
+00:05:58.860 --> 00:05:59.360
+project. Maybe a four-man project or 5,
+
+00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:04.640
+but not 1. Okay, I'll answer the 1 in the
+
+00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:08.600
+chat, on the blue button.
+
+00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:10.840
+Is it best to learn Common Lisp before
+
+00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:13.600
+learning to use LEM? I think this is similar
+
+00:06:15.780 --> 00:06:16.280
+to Emacs and EmacLisp,
+
+00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:19.080
+right? Should you use EmacLisp before using
+
+00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:20.460
+Emacs? Doesn't make too much sense,
+
+00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:23.860
+right? You see Emacs and then you go learning
+
+00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:29.060
+Common Lisp. I think it's the same,
+
+00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:31.300
+sorry, EmacsLisp. And it's the same with LEM.
+
+00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:33.300
+You can start using LEM with a non-common
+
+00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:38.040
+Lisp, which is fine. You can use it to edit
+
+00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:39.520
+your things. It's like an editor.
+
+00:06:42.900 --> 00:06:43.040
+But like Emacs, LEM puts a lot of focus on
+
+00:06:46.820 --> 00:06:46.960
+extensibility. So it's very probable that you
+
+00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:50.420
+will learn how to write Common Lisp.
+
+00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:53.600
+I have to say that a lot of people that use
+
+00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:56.440
+LEM, well, me and most of the people,
+
+00:06:59.060 --> 00:06:59.440
+come from Emacs. So if you come from Emacs
+
+00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:01.120
+and you know a little bit of Emac Lisp,
+
+00:07:04.820 --> 00:07:05.320
+Common Lisp is like an uncle or cousin
+
+00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:07.620
+distance that shares some similarities.
+
+00:07:09.820 --> 00:07:10.020
+So you will... Well, it's not going to be
+
+00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:13.020
+that. I can show... Sorry about that.
+
+00:07:14.960 --> 00:07:15.460
+For example, I show that in the...
+
+00:07:21.780 --> 00:07:22.280
+I can show... So the...
+
+00:07:27.080 --> 00:07:27.540
+It's not that different from Emacs regarding
+
+00:07:28.940 --> 00:07:29.440
+configuration. So for example,
+
+00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:31.520
+this command doesn't exist on LEM.
+
+00:07:35.020 --> 00:07:35.520
+And Sasaki-san didn't want to copy one-to-one
+
+00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:36.860
+the command from Emacs,
+
+00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:39.860
+the airgrip, the cursor grip command of
+
+00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:41.620
+Emacs. And I said, okay,
+
+00:07:43.080 --> 00:07:43.440
+then I'm going to implement it myself.
+
+00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:44.740
+And it's something like this,
+
+00:07:47.960 --> 00:07:48.080
+which is you will do something similar to
+
+00:07:50.320 --> 00:07:50.500
+Emacs, right? This will be like things at
+
+00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:52.780
+point symbol or something like that.
+
+00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:55.240
+And then you have a prompt,
+
+00:07:59.060 --> 00:07:59.440
+very prompt for directory with Emacs would be
+
+00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:01.560
+something similar. And then you then launch
+
+00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:03.460
+grep with the command that you want.
+
+00:08:06.340 --> 00:08:06.780
+This is not that far from Emacs,
+
+00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:10.840
+this, really. If you don't know neither of
+
+00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:13.240
+those, you can still use LEM,
+
+00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.060
+though as with Emacs, extensibility will be,
+
+00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:22.760
+well, you couldn't extend it if you don't
+
+00:08:28.700 --> 00:08:29.100
+know combo disp. Should I answer the question
+
+00:08:33.280 --> 00:08:33.780
+on the etherpad writing it at the same time?
+
+00:08:36.580 --> 00:08:36.760
+[Speaker 1]: You're welcome to, but you don't have to.
+
+00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:38.500
+You can just answer here on stream,
+
+00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:40.940
+[Speaker 2]: on the Google button. Okay.
+
+00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:43.640
+Okay. Are there any Lisp machine capabilities
+
+00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:45.280
+you're trying to provide that GNU image
+
+00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:47.040
+lacks? The type objects capability in the
+
+00:08:47.560 --> 00:08:48.060
+editor, as an example.
+
+00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:54.340
+I mean, there were a few discussions about
+
+00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:00.060
+the Lisp machines and LEM and all the big
+
+00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:03.280
+projects that tries to get some capability of
+
+00:09:05.180 --> 00:09:05.680
+it. But we don't really...
+
+00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.340
+We try to improve the development experience
+
+00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:13.300
+for Common Lisp and for LEM,
+
+00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:18.660
+imitating a lot of things that the Lisp
+
+00:09:21.560 --> 00:09:22.060
+machine had. I'm going to try to do a thing
+
+00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:23.900
+that I don't know if it's going to work.
+
+00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:27.380
+So to explain this, let's see.
+
+00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:36.180
+I'm going to recompile them now live.
+
+00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:42.540
+Let's see how it works.
+
+00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:48.240
+And compiling the, yes,
+
+00:09:51.780 --> 00:09:52.280
+it doesn't work. OK. What if I do?
+
+00:09:53.900 --> 00:09:54.220
+No, it doesn't work. OK.
+
+00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:55.760
+I was trying to compile the SDL2,
+
+00:09:57.540 --> 00:09:58.040
+but I do have the codebase modifier.
+
+00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:00.860
+I should be able to compile this.
+
+00:10:05.640 --> 00:10:06.140
+Oh, that was really bad.
+
+00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:13.580
+What about example? I have the code base,
+
+00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:17.720
+so let me check. I'm going to do this.
+
+00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:19.580
+Oh, yeah, I have this modified.
+
+00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:31.620
+I stash this. OK. I have this modified.
+
+00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:33.780
+Now it should work. OK.
+
+00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:42.820
+Sorry. I was going to show the writing
+
+00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:45.900
+capabilities of it, similar to the Lisp
+
+00:10:47.800 --> 00:10:48.300
+machine of navigating of classes.
+
+00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:52.500
+So the answer of that question is,
+
+00:10:57.040 --> 00:10:57.180
+not really. We don't try to emulate this
+
+00:10:58.440 --> 00:10:58.940
+machine, nor any like of that.
+
+00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:06.000
+But yeah. Let me, I'm going to try to,
+
+00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:07.620
+okay, now I'm back at them.
+
+00:11:12.180 --> 00:11:12.500
+Okay. So what about using them for things
+
+00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:13.760
+other than common, common,
+
+00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:16.500
+that markets? Okay. So yes,
+
+00:11:18.280 --> 00:11:18.480
+we do have, so I'm going to show the code
+
+00:11:20.280 --> 00:11:20.780
+base a little bit. Like I said before,
+
+00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.600
+we don't have yet too much external packages
+
+00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:27.000
+because of the size of the community.
+
+00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:30.940
+I have a question. Go ahead,
+
+00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:32.660
+you can write it, Michael.
+
+00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:38.300
+Yeah. So, yes, as you can see here,
+
+00:11:43.900 --> 00:11:44.340
+this is almost all, or 99% of the major modes
+
+00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:46.620
+we have. We use the same terminology of
+
+00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:48.140
+SkinnyMemax in that way.
+
+00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:49.440
+For example, the C mode,
+
+00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:51.580
+if you go inside, you see that this is the
+
+00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:53.980
+fine major mode. So in that regard,
+
+00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:55.300
+it's very similar to Emacs.
+
+00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:57.100
+And we have something called a JIT,
+
+00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:58.820
+which is like a maggot.
+
+00:12:00.280 --> 00:12:00.780
+And you can edit files.
+
+00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:02.980
+You can use not only for common lists.
+
+00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:07.320
+In my configuration, which is written,
+
+00:12:11.140 --> 00:12:11.640
+I will post that later,
+
+00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:15.640
+but if you go to my code burg you can see my
+
+00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:16.960
+configuration which is,
+
+00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:20.640
+which I do have. So for example you can use
+
+00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:22.760
+it for a scheme. We have a swank server.
+
+00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:24.340
+This is the configuration to use it.
+
+00:12:25.900 --> 00:12:26.040
+You can use it for JavaScript because we have
+
+00:12:28.180 --> 00:12:28.680
+a native LSP client written in.
+
+00:12:29.540 --> 00:12:29.800
+And we have Dired. Yeah,
+
+00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:34.320
+this is Dired. We have Dired indeed.
+
+00:12:35.560 --> 00:12:35.740
+No, it's not Dired, you know.
+
+00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:36.760
+It's called directory.
+
+00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:39.360
+Sasaki-san, which is the main maintainer,
+
+00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:43.600
+doesn't like to copy one-to-one Emacs names,
+
+00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:49.200
+but we are the same. We also have projects,
+
+00:12:51.780 --> 00:12:52.280
+which is like projectile.
+
+00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:55.240
+So, you know, they're very similar but not
+
+00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:57.440
+the same. We also have a VI configuration,
+
+00:12:59.220 --> 00:12:59.380
+as you can see. I'm using the VI commands and
+
+00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:00.600
+stuff, and it's very good.
+
+00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:04.120
+I will say not as good as an evil because it
+
+00:13:06.680 --> 00:13:07.180
+still needs some polish,
+
+00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.500
+but it's getting there.
+
+00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:13.860
+So we can also program in JavaScript and a
+
+00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:16.660
+lot of LSP things, and Elixir,
+
+00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:19.100
+which was recently added by myself.
+
+00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:22.080
+And yeah, it's very fun to add new modes.
+
+00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.940
+OK, what else next? What about user-level
+
+00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:28.940
+things other than coding?
+
+00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:31.880
+What about using this in conjunction with
+
+00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:34.840
+Nix? Oh, so there's a big,
+
+00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:37.480
+so like I said before,
+
+00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:40.200
+there were like an issue that 3 main common
+
+00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:41.460
+list project were talking,
+
+00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:47.420
+some of the users. So the 3 main projects are
+
+00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:49.840
+LEM, probably, Nixed, and then StamWM,
+
+00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:53.000
+the 3 main, well, 3 big,
+
+00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:55.440
+common list projects that are trying to
+
+00:13:57.720 --> 00:13:58.040
+emulate an Emacs experience in different
+
+00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:00.340
+fields. 1 is Editor, the other 1 is Window
+
+00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.220
+Manager, and the 1 is the browser.
+
+00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:06.820
+The problem is that the design of the 3 are
+
+00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:11.960
+very different. So Nix is very focused on the
+
+00:14:14.900 --> 00:14:15.060
+browser. You can connect to Nix.
+
+00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:16.920
+So given that they're both a common list,
+
+00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:19.160
+you can connect to Nix from them and vice
+
+00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:21.600
+versa. And you can send commands and you can,
+
+00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:23.080
+so you have this kind of interoperability
+
+00:14:31.420 --> 00:14:31.580
+with both. But no, you cannot combine both to
+
+00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:35.780
+have 1 LEMNIX. That would be very sick.
+
+00:14:39.400 --> 00:14:39.600
+I would love it. But the effort is just too
+
+00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:41.280
+much. Keep in mind we are a very small
+
+00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:45.060
+community. The LEM, like I said,
+
+00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.140
+we are like 345 developers that write
+
+00:14:51.880 --> 00:14:52.380
+packages and answer questions and stuff.
+
+00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:55.880
+Now we need users in that way to test things.
+
+00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:58.820
+So what is the license of LEM?
+
+00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:00.980
+The license of LEM is MAT.
+
+00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:03.180
+We have some components of all the various
+
+00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:04.980
+licenses, but the main 1 is MAT.
+
+00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:07.660
+I didn't choose the license of it.
+
+00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:11.820
+I would highly prefer a more like GPL 1,
+
+00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:14.000
+but like I said I'm not a maintainer,
+
+00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:16.360
+so the license is MAT.
+
+00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:20.320
+This question, I realize,
+
+00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:22.200
+how far is LEM from being able to remove a
+
+00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:26.940
+list libraries? OK, that's a big question
+
+00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:30.920
+indeed. And Funny enough,
+
+00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.300
+2 years ago in the EmacsConf,
+
+00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:34.700
+I talk about this, not with LEM,
+
+00:15:36.340 --> 00:15:36.480
+but with Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp in
+
+00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:42.100
+general. So I'm not the only 1 thinking about
+
+00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:44.240
+this. In fact, I'm talking with someone that
+
+00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:46.960
+is trying to write like a Emacs Lisp
+
+00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:48.620
+interpreter to work with them.
+
+00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:52.740
+The thing is that Emaclist libraries,
+
+00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:55.580
+so the API is just very different.
+
+00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.220
+That's the main problem.
+
+00:15:58.940 --> 00:15:59.440
+That's really the problem.
+
+00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:02.820
+You can, so you can, let me see.
+
+00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880
+So, you can have an Emacs list buffer of LEM.
+
+00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:15.920
+This is an Emacs list rebel.
+
+00:16:21.380 --> 00:16:21.560
+I wrote an LRSP client so you can connect to
+
+00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:23.560
+Emacs and send things and stuff.
+
+00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:25.660
+So you're friends that we share stuff.
+
+00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:28.840
+But having a complete Emacless implementation
+
+00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:37.600
+with LEM and work with both API will be a
+
+00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:42.600
+huge work. Very like, it's even if they share
+
+00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.180
+very similar thing, in fact,
+
+00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.980
+API in some places is very similar.
+
+00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:49.040
+Down the line infrastructure,
+
+00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:52.720
+so the code is, so it's completely different.
+
+00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:56.840
+It will be very hard. We do have a clone of
+
+00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.440
+maggot that works, more or less.
+
+00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:01.940
+Well, it does work, but maggot's just better.
+
+00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.820
+But it's getting there.
+
+00:17:05.020 --> 00:17:05.460
+So like I said, we're trying to,
+
+00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:06.720
+not to copy one-to-one,
+
+00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.140
+but to adapting each tool to LEM.
+
+00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:13.760
+How are LEM buffer designs similar to Emacs?
+
+00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:20.020
+So yeah, that would be,
+
+00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:21.760
+so how a blend buffer design,
+
+00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:25.280
+similar to Emacs. So similar in what way,
+
+00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.819
+actually with properties.
+
+00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:29.480
+I think that you've seen,
+
+00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:31.560
+so you do have like a font lock,
+
+00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:32.920
+different kind of properties,
+
+00:17:37.820 --> 00:17:38.040
+but it's not exactly how Emac does it with
+
+00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:42.180
+overlays and stuff. You can,
+
+00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:43.580
+so if you're very interested,
+
+00:17:45.300 --> 00:17:45.800
+I don't want to go too much deep into the,
+
+00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:51.720
+let me go to, I don't want to go too much
+
+00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:55.760
+deep into the technicality of things now,
+
+00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:58.080
+but you can go. So LEM is written 100% in
+
+00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:00.380
+Common Lisp. So if you know Common Lisp,
+
+00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:04.040
+you can go to buffer. You can check all the
+
+00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:09.020
+codes here. Always we have,
+
+00:18:12.780 --> 00:18:13.280
+we also have this, which is like StreamX.
+
+00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:18.360
+Sorry to that, I don't.
+
+00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:22.400
+But yeah, So you can see.
+
+00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:24.940
+So yeah, if you go to the code base,
+
+00:18:26.780 --> 00:18:27.280
+maybe some of you can check this problem.
+
+00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:29.000
+Well, not problem, but yeah.
+
+00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:30.840
+That's this Japanese comment.
+
+00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:36.060
+You can see here why it's very,
+
+00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.300
+you have to translate and stuff,
+
+00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:40.060
+which is sometimes a little bit annoying.
+
+00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:45.040
+But yeah, some of them are in English.
+
+00:18:47.020 --> 00:18:47.440
+So this play is not the same.
+
+00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.200
+So if you're interested,
+
+00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:51.400
+you can go to the buffer and check it out for
+
+00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:53.600
+yourself. But I think it uses the overlay in
+
+00:18:58.620 --> 00:18:58.900
+a different way. So the implementation is
+
+00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:05.020
+different that way. Oh,
+
+00:19:10.875 --> 00:19:11.375
+[Speaker 0]: This module. Oh, this is very low.
+
+00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:13.060
+[Speaker 2]: this is fairly low. What other things or
+
+00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:15.600
+experiences that I can show you?
+
+00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.420
+Just like you show you.
+
+00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:18.620
+Any marks?
+
+00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360
+Okay, very interesting question.
+
+00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.500
+What are the things...
+
+00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:37.960
+So that's interesting.
+
+00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.220
+Let me see. So forgive me,
+
+00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:49.760
+you answered this. I talked briefly in the
+
+00:19:53.560 --> 00:19:53.780
+talk about this, but basically I like
+
+00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:56.340
+Komaldisp, I have the mascot here.
+
+00:19:58.040 --> 00:19:58.540
+[Speaker 3]: a very
+
+00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:04.840
+[Speaker 2]: It's Italian thing. I like Common Lisp and I
+
+00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.800
+think GmagLisp is a very good friend of
+
+00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:10.520
+Common Lisp in the way that Serious Software
+
+00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:12.340
+Analysis is a very good uncle.
+
+00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:19.300
+Let me answer first the 1.
+
+00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:24.620
+So I like to extend it in Common Lisp.
+
+00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:26.140
+I like the Common Lisp libraries.
+
+00:20:30.100 --> 00:20:30.360
+And I think them have a better design in
+
+00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:31.720
+terms of its 1 language,
+
+00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:33.980
+which I think is a nice strength.
+
+00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:36.660
+Like, 1 of the things that put me off when I
+
+00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.020
+was using Emacs, I love to extend the editor
+
+00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:41.100
+and to go inside and stuff.
+
+00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:43.520
+And 1 of the things that I'm not a big fan of
+
+00:20:44.820 --> 00:20:45.020
+C. If you're a fan of C,
+
+00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:47.240
+you will be very pleasant with finding C
+
+00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.660
+stuff, but I don't. So when I'm trying to
+
+00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:52.840
+hack an Emacs and go inside the things,
+
+00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:54.640
+I will control C code.
+
+00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:56.660
+That's not that interactive as the Emaclist
+
+00:20:59.340 --> 00:20:59.840
+1, and that would be like a fuzzball for me.
+
+00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:04.080
+I was always dreaming about that stuff,
+
+00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:05.820
+having like everything in 1 language.
+
+00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.160
+The thing that LEM does to me is like it
+
+00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:12.560
+allows me to extend the editor to modify
+
+00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.660
+also, to modify in Common Lisp.
+
+00:21:17.660 --> 00:21:18.160
+Also, I like the language and technology.
+
+00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:19.900
+It's a bold thing, right?
+
+00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:21.980
+It's a world language that I love,
+
+00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:24.240
+and Emacs that I love.
+
+00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:25.880
+Emacs, I'm a big fan of,
+
+00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:27.520
+or a user of GNU Emacs.
+
+00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:29.880
+And LEM is like Emacs plus Common Lisp,
+
+00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:30.900
+but with a different design.
+
+00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:32.860
+I don't want to, It's not a clone.
+
+00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:38.040
+I want to get this very clear that LEM is not
+
+00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:41.140
+a clone of Emacs. The sign is very different
+
+00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:43.500
+in a lot of ways. But it's very inspired,
+
+00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:44.880
+and that cannot be denied.
+
+00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:48.780
+[Speaker 1]: I can jump in for a second.
+
+00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:51.360
+I think we're like 15 minutes into the lunch
+
+00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:53.040
+break, but you're welcome to continue
+
+00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:55.760
+answering questions. But if anyone on the
+
+00:21:57.500 --> 00:21:58.000
+stream or folks want to go grab lunch,
+
+00:21:59.760 --> 00:21:59.860
+feel free to do that. I'm probably going to
+
+00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.040
+do that as well. But yeah,
+
+00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:03.920
+we can either continue keeping this on the
+
+00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:06.440
+stream, or if people would like to come join
+
+00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:09.100
+here on BigBlueButton and talk to Fermin,
+
+00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:11.540
+like folks have already done that,
+
+00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:12.940
+yeah, you're welcome to.
+
+00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:15.120
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, go ahead. No problem.
+
+00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:17.000
+Thank you. Thank you, Vitaliy.
+
+00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:25.280
+Cheers. Cheers. So finishing the answer to
+
+00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:30.380
+the question, I think LEM does tries to fix
+
+00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.380
+some Emacs problems, can we fix problems
+
+00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:35.700
+regarding the internal API,
+
+00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.480
+which makes sense, right?
+
+00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:39.560
+Emacs have like 40 years,
+
+00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:42.780
+which is a lot. And yeah,
+
+00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:45.060
+which is, that's what makes me happy.
+
+00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:47.720
+I use both now. I use Maggis and Emacs for
+
+00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:50.460
+some languages and then I use LEM for Common
+
+00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:51.600
+Lisp and other languages.
+
+00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:55.740
+You can also use LEM for EmacLisp,
+
+00:22:59.760 --> 00:22:59.960
+which makes LEM the second best editor for
+
+00:23:02.360 --> 00:23:02.860
+EmacLisp. It was a funny thing to do.
+
+00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:06.100
+OK, so do you think LEM will continue to have
+
+00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:07.260
+a lot of Japanese documentation?
+
+00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:12.180
+So there's not that many Japanese
+
+00:23:12.780 --> 00:23:13.280
+documentation, really.
+
+00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:18.480
+So there's a few comments here and there,
+
+00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.920
+but it's not full. We have a web page with a
+
+00:23:22.020 --> 00:23:22.520
+lot of documentation in English.
+
+00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:25.880
+So you can take a look at that.
+
+00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:29.580
+But we do have to improve the documentation
+
+00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:30.760
+and translate it to English.
+
+00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.440
+Sasaki-san is up to it,
+
+00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:35.960
+but he just doesn't feel that comfortable
+
+00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:37.100
+translating it himself.
+
+00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:39.180
+So yeah.
+
+00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:43.220
+[Speaker 3]: So, this is Peter on BigBlueWem.
+
+00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:50.120
+Yeah, it's neat that Wem even exists,
+
+00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:55.940
+because there's always chatter on the Emacs
+
+00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.280
+mailing list to rewrite Emacs and some other
+
+00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.120
+language. And to see that it's already to see
+
+00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:05.820
+that I mean, you have an implementation
+
+00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:08.560
+sitting there and, and the thing I was
+
+00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.960
+wondering while I was listening in on the,
+
+00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:14.460
+on the Q and A was do you have Dured?
+
+00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:15.700
+Do you have Maggot? And some,
+
+00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:17.600
+somebody else wrote that question into,
+
+00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:20.640
+into Etherpad. But I was happy to see that
+
+00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:23.000
+you have Dured or something like it
+
+00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.440
+implemented. Because I think that's like the,
+
+00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:27.180
+for me, that's the most important thing in
+
+00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:31.000
+Emacs because that gets me around in my
+
+00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:35.380
+[Speaker 2]: BRODINKOVICH Yeah, for me too.
+
+00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:36.240
+For me too.
+
+00:24:37.100 --> 00:24:37.260
+[Speaker 0]: Go ahead.
+
+00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:37.940
+[Speaker 3]: system. VICTOR Sorry. Yeah,
+
+00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:40.160
+so I may try it out sometime,
+
+00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:42.540
+but probably won't be for like 3 or 6 months,
+
+00:24:45.060 --> 00:24:45.240
+because there's always a backlog of other
+
+00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:47.060
+things to try out.
+
+00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:50.300
+[Speaker 4]: I'm the 1 who wrote that question.
+
+00:24:54.020 --> 00:24:54.520
+And do you use, I think you have bookmarks
+
+00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:55.800
+and registers, I imagine,
+
+00:24:55.800 --> 00:24:56.300
+right?
+
+00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:00.060
+[Speaker 2]: I think you have. I never tried bookmarks
+
+00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:01.400
+because I don't use it that much.
+
+00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:03.060
+But I think you have something like that.
+
+00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:05.840
+I mean, I don't. There's a few features that
+
+00:25:07.360 --> 00:25:07.540
+I don't know about them because I don't use
+
+00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:08.980
+it much. Some features,
+
+00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:11.840
+I mean. But yeah, I think you have.
+
+00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:13.380
+Let me check. We can check,
+
+00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:17.120
+probably. Things in extensions,
+
+00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:23.480
+just directory. VNXT. Directory mode.
+
+00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:29.450
+So there is. So this is the Tyrant's friend.
+
+00:25:31.780 --> 00:25:32.230
+I won't say clone. Very inspired.
+
+00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:36.900
+[Speaker 4]: What about like on the note-taking front,
+
+00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:38.940
+like org mode,
+
+00:25:41.040 --> 00:25:41.380
+[Speaker 2]: You know. note... Yes,
+
+00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:50.940
+so... EMMS... Yes, so someone did some MMS.
+
+00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:58.620
+So not MMS, not much. So package for LEM that
+
+00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:00.400
+is now in a pull request,
+
+00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:04.300
+I think. But yeah, no.
+
+00:26:06.800 --> 00:26:07.300
+The thing is I don't use R mode that much.
+
+00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:12.480
+We don't have a heavy R mode user to provide
+
+00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:15.300
+some major mode and stuff.
+
+00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.600
+So we don't have that implemented yet.
+
+00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:20.900
+The thing is, my plans for,
+
+00:26:22.360 --> 00:26:22.860
+I do have plans for our mode.
+
+00:26:24.020 --> 00:26:24.520
+They're a little bit evil,
+
+00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:26.700
+but there's plans for it.
+
+00:26:27.800 --> 00:26:28.040
+So I'm planning to use,
+
+00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.060
+so rewriting our mode is a big task that I
+
+00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:34.700
+don't want to do. So I'm going to use Emacs
+
+00:26:39.020 --> 00:26:39.520
+for our mode in 2.11. I wrote a recipe,
+
+00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:45.380
+no, a remote procedural RPC that I'm using
+
+00:26:46.860 --> 00:26:47.360
+for the Red Bull and stuff.
+
+00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.200
+And I'm planning to have an Emacs Puppet to
+
+00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.220
+provide me the functionality for Org Mode.
+
+00:26:59.380 --> 00:26:59.760
+[Speaker 4]: I know for me, when I write notes,
+
+00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:01.940
+I like to note more than Org Roam just
+
+00:27:06.340 --> 00:27:06.840
+because I feel Org Mode is great and all,
+
+00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:09.060
+but if all my notes are in it,
+
+00:27:10.260 --> 00:27:10.760
+I kind of feel trapped by it.
+
+00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.960
+I did the talk journaling in KOutline,
+
+00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:18.040
+and I like that package better for some
+
+00:27:21.040 --> 00:27:21.260
+things and it's like if I want to put like
+
+00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:24.780
+the tags on PDF file names and so it's like
+
+00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:29.100
+Yeah, it's great and all but it's also Is
+
+00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:31.740
+that part of the motivation of wanting to use
+
+00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:35.120
+lamb is so you feel less entrapped by emacs
+
+00:27:38.445 --> 00:27:38.840
+No, I will say I don't no.
+
+00:27:40.620 --> 00:27:41.120
+[Speaker 2]: No, no. I was very happy trapping to Emacs.
+
+00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:47.560
+To be fair. The thing is I don't use Hormel
+
+00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.100
+that much. That's just the reality.
+
+00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:52.580
+Org Mode for me is a very good markup
+
+00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:54.810
+language, but not that much really.
+
+00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.420
+I know that Org Mode has a lot of people and
+
+00:27:58.740 --> 00:27:59.060
+it's used by a lot of people.
+
+00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:00.560
+And there's very interesting packages.
+
+00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:04.200
+[Speaker 4]: What about org mode versus markdown versus
+
+00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:06.300
+plain text versus latex then?
+
+00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:08.860
+[Speaker 2]: I like org mode because of the Emacs
+
+00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:10.880
+functionality. I think if you take that away,
+
+00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:16.100
+you plain or mode versus Markdown,
+
+00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:18.080
+I don't think there's that much difference,
+
+00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:20.460
+if you take the Emacs functionality away.
+
+00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:24.880
+I like the
+
+00:28:27.260 --> 00:28:27.760
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah. Emacs syntax more than Markdown.
+
+00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:29.900
+Like, for instance, you have the double
+
+00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:31.960
+square brackets, which is simpler for me to
+
+00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.000
+look at, but.
+
+00:28:35.820 --> 00:28:36.060
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I guess it's a matter of,
+
+00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:38.640
+I mean, we don't have yet a major mode of R
+
+00:28:39.800 --> 00:28:40.300
+mode, which will be quite trivial.
+
+00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:43.160
+Well, you know, a simple syntax highlights,
+
+00:28:46.040 --> 00:28:46.540
+you know, R mode in LEM,
+
+00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:52.960
+because no 1 wrote it.
+
+00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:55.640
+I mean, that's the way with this project,
+
+00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:00.360
+right? If you need people to be motivated to
+
+00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:04.620
+do that. And with LEM,
+
+00:29:06.540 --> 00:29:07.040
+someone asked about the Japanese.
+
+00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:11.820
+I think they're interested about that.
+
+00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.420
+LEM does have a thing,
+
+00:29:16.030 --> 00:29:16.095
+[Speaker 0]: If the it would be good.
+
+00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:17.160
+[Speaker 4]: I'd be able to do more,
+
+00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.500
+but that's what I
+
+00:29:19.370 --> 00:29:19.870
+[Speaker 0]: was doing.
+
+00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:22.820
+[Speaker 2]: they think True. So, for example,
+
+00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:24.740
+we're using another big fan of...
+
+00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:28.080
+I mean, I know that the main people that may
+
+00:29:30.280 --> 00:29:30.780
+use in the future LEM are EMACLIS people.
+
+00:29:33.080 --> 00:29:33.580
+A lot of them. It's very similar.
+
+00:29:37.540 --> 00:29:37.940
+And Sasaki-san and the LEM community mainly
+
+00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:43.760
+uses Discord for chat and stuff.
+
+00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:47.480
+I mean, we do have matrix,
+
+00:29:48.540 --> 00:29:48.640
+and I should connect to it,
+
+00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.320
+by the way. But we mainly use Discord,
+
+00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:58.580
+which I don't think is a good thing.
+
+00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:02.300
+I mean, to have the main communication
+
+00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:05.520
+channels, Discord. Because,
+
+00:30:09.020 --> 00:30:09.520
+well, it's Discord. It's a closed source
+
+00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:13.440
+application that is easy for some people,
+
+00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:14.840
+but for some people it's a tailbreak.
+
+00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:17.080
+[Speaker 0]: are in
+
+00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:18.080
+[Speaker 2]: Especially people that the Emacs community
+
+00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580
+that very like free software.
+
+00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:23.300
+[Speaker 4]: The only good thing about Molesley is it's
+
+00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:26.380
+popular, but as soon as you break out of that
+
+00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:28.520
+mold, all of a sudden it becomes a lot
+
+00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:30.900
+harder. For instance, they don't have...
+
+00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:34.320
+All the third-party clients are unofficial
+
+00:30:37.340 --> 00:30:37.500
+and according to their terms of service they
+
+00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:40.600
+can just can you. Which is not a nice
+
+00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:44.180
+position to be in if you're trying to use it
+
+00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:47.700
+and you wanted to be a moderator using some
+
+00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:51.100
+side tools that weren't Discord.
+
+00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:55.560
+[Speaker 2]: I agree 100% and in fact I'm not a big fan,
+
+00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.900
+I don't like Discord.
+
+00:31:03.860 --> 00:31:04.360
+[Speaker 5]: You mentioned the RPC you did between Emacs
+
+00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:06.700
+and the LEM. Do you have it published
+
+00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.220
+somewhere?
+
+00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:14.020
+[Speaker 2]: Yes, it's in the LEM project.
+
+00:31:15.820 --> 00:31:16.320
+I'll copy that in the chat.
+
+00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:19.340
+[Speaker 5]: Okay, because I'm always interested in how
+
+00:31:21.560 --> 00:31:22.060
+you do like the communication with other
+
+00:31:24.020 --> 00:31:24.320
+programs with Emacs because that's
+
+00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:24.820
+interesting.
+
+00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:30.640
+[Speaker 2]: I'm only using the porthole package,
+
+00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:32.960
+I'm not writing it from scratch,
+
+00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:34.840
+not that much as a developer.
+
+00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:37.960
+[Speaker 5]: So I don't know this package.
+
+00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:39.640
+Maybe that's the thing I can learn.
+
+00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:41.140
+[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, probably if you,
+
+00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:42.740
+yeah. Yeah. If you want to,
+
+00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:44.360
+so I didn't see this 1,
+
+00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:46.920
+this package for the RSP,
+
+00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:49.120
+which make is monthly automatically.
+
+00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.600
+[Speaker 5]: And how do you do, how do you plan to
+
+00:31:59.180 --> 00:31:59.440
+integrate Org Mode? Because Org Mode needs to
+
+00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:00.260
+work on.
+
+00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:03.540
+[Speaker 2]: This way? Yes, so I'm planning to have like a
+
+00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:08.760
+Emacs puppet and to have like a clone buffer
+
+00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:11.820
+from the buffer that you do in LEM and then
+
+00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.380
+the command sent into the Emacs hidden buffer
+
+00:32:19.820 --> 00:32:20.140
+and then the changes go back to LEM to change
+
+00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:23.160
+the buffer of LEM. That's my idea.
+
+00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:25.460
+[Speaker 5]: Okay, that's all. It's interesting.
+
+00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:28.540
+Would be interesting to see what comes from
+
+00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:29.040
+it.
+
+00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:32.780
+[Speaker 2]: It's a bit, it's a hackish 100%.
+
+00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:35.320
+It's not, you have to duplicate the
+
+00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:36.520
+information and stuff,
+
+00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:39.140
+which is, oh, by the way,
+
+00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:40.820
+I'm going to pass the Lemington,
+
+00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:43.880
+which is the name of the RSP clone.
+
+00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:46.480
+Sorry, the integration with Emacs,
+
+00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:49.400
+which is LEM with a mustache.
+
+00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:54.600
+[Speaker 4]: They had good news where it would do the same
+
+00:32:56.360 --> 00:32:56.860
+thing, where it would open up a slave Emacs,
+
+00:33:00.020 --> 00:33:00.520
+because it was such a performance hog for
+
+00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:02.640
+retrieving all the emails.
+
+00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:07.360
+[Speaker 2]: No. I mean, Emacs have a server,
+
+00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:08.860
+right? I can, in fact,
+
+00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:11.700
+I'm using that for, I'm already puppeting.
+
+00:33:13.340 --> 00:33:13.620
+Well, not puppeting. I'm already using
+
+00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:16.200
+Maggots. So I have this.
+
+00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:17.900
+Actually, let me copy.
+
+00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:25.920
+I have this, which is usually a little bit,
+
+00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:28.420
+I'm launching the Emacs daemon and then I'm
+
+00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:31.740
+launching Leviton. And then this is the kill
+
+00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:32.700
+and this is the status,
+
+00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:33.940
+which is basically saying,
+
+00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:37.180
+run this and this is this,
+
+00:33:42.040 --> 00:33:42.540
+which is run maggot in this file.
+
+00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:44.340
+If you put it side by side,
+
+00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:48.800
+you will check instantly that this is the
+
+00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:51.400
+buffer directory, LEM home,
+
+00:33:54.020 --> 00:33:54.520
+and then the current file.
+
+00:33:58.860 --> 00:33:59.360
+Because I'm launching it with the file.
+
+00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:04.240
+So buffer directory, which is the directory
+
+00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:09.739
+of the buffer. So I'm already using maggot as
+
+00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:14.080
+a tool outside of LEM,
+
+00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.060
+because I really like maggot.
+
+00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:17.420
+And this is very easy to check.
+
+00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:23.219
+Launch Emacs daemon. Okay.
+
+00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:29.080
+And then I go to local projects.
+
+00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:32.219
+Let's go to another 1 that is not LEM.
+
+00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:37.400
+[Speaker 4]: You actually have weird ideas like running it
+
+00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:39.860
+in daemon mode so you don't ever have to
+
+00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.340
+restart it or the images,
+
+00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:43.600
+I guess, that LEM has.
+
+00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.300
+[Speaker 2]: LEM does not have this kind of,
+
+00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:54.060
+I will call it, it doesn't have like a demon
+
+00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:56.780
+mode, so you have control separately,
+
+00:34:58.860 --> 00:34:59.360
+but keep in mind that LEM,
+
+00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:01.680
+it's a common list program.
+
+00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:03.840
+So if you use slime or Sly,
+
+00:35:10.080 --> 00:35:10.580
+you can easily connect to them to hack on it.
+
+00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:12.880
+[Speaker 4]: ever use that functionality,
+
+00:35:14.060 --> 00:35:14.560
+like using it from another computer?
+
+00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:16.900
+[Speaker 2]: Do you Another computer,
+
+00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:18.100
+I think the same computer,
+
+00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:21.620
+or maybe Sage, but yeah,
+
+00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:22.320
+it's very...
+
+00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.020
+[Speaker 4]: Or from like your window,
+
+00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:27.140
+if you were using the window...
+
+00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:28.580
+I can't remember the name of the window
+
+00:35:30.100 --> 00:35:30.600
+manager. Or if you were using...
+
+00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:36.960
+What? Yeah, yeah. Or using like stump,
+
+00:35:40.680 --> 00:35:40.760
+calling it from like stump WM or how often do
+
+00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:42.000
+you use that REPL?
+
+00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:43.940
+[Speaker 2]: SPCL? No. ThumbWM? I use it quite a lot.
+
+00:35:44.700 --> 00:35:45.200
+I connect to a museum,
+
+00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:49.760
+some WM right now, and I use LEM to connect
+
+00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:52.740
+to it, but I was using Emacs before.
+
+00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:55.960
+And you can use Sly or Slime to connect to
+
+00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:58.520
+LEM. So the thing that is in Common List
+
+00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:01.400
+makes it this kind of already out-of-the-box
+
+00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:04.280
+connectivity between different...
+
+00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.460
+[Speaker 4]: How many window managers have you used?
+
+00:36:11.120 --> 00:36:11.400
+I've used that before.
+
+00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:13.780
+I've also used, like right now I'm using
+
+00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:15.220
+Sway. I've used Xmonad,
+
+00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:16.760
+DWM.
+
+00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:23.540
+[Speaker 2]: This is awesome. What is the other 1?
+
+00:36:25.680 --> 00:36:26.180
+I can't remember the name.
+
+00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.380
+But it was like a few years ago.
+
+00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:31.020
+I've been doing some DWM for like the last
+
+00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:36.760
+[Speaker 4]: I remember that. Go ahead.
+
+00:36:37.740 --> 00:36:38.240
+[Speaker 2]: year, I think. Or 3. know,
+
+00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:42.440
+it's that I was... I don't know.
+
+00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:43.520
+[Speaker 0]: I don't a couple
+
+00:36:44.040 --> 00:36:44.540
+[Speaker 2]: I'd like to have of days of my...
+
+00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:48.400
+[Speaker 4]: I remember that that window manager seemed to
+
+00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:53.600
+have some unique ideas that weren't
+
+00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:56.780
+necessarily available on like EWM and XMLNAD.
+
+00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:03.040
+[Speaker 2]: So SoundLM, it's an interesting project.
+
+00:37:05.140 --> 00:37:05.460
+But for example, I'll change...
+
+00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:07.080
+So I don't have in this computer,
+
+00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:08.680
+but in my other computer,
+
+00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.320
+I change the mod line or bar,
+
+00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:18.720
+top bar, whatever, because the ThunderLVM
+
+00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:22.000
+doesn't only update it when you click,
+
+00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:25.680
+or you do some events or happen 1 minute.
+
+00:37:27.560 --> 00:37:27.980
+So you can see here, this is not changing
+
+00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:28.820
+until I click.
+
+00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:33.720
+[Speaker 0]: That's it.
+
+00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:34.600
+[Speaker 3]: AUDIENCE 1 Matthew, sorry.
+
+00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:36.660
+I have a quick question for Matthew.
+
+00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:43.640
+So is your talk going to be posted or did you
+
+00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:47.920
+[Speaker 4]: Go ahead. I gave them a recording.
+
+00:37:50.140 --> 00:37:50.640
+My talk was the K outline for journaling
+
+00:37:53.080 --> 00:37:53.240
+[Speaker 3]: give it live? right right it was I woke up
+
+00:37:54.020 --> 00:37:54.520
+too late for it Sorry,
+
+00:37:58.420 --> 00:37:58.920
+so I came in and I just saw Bob Weiner
+
+00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:03.340
+answering questions So is your talk going to
+
+00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:07.060
+be on the page for your talk?
+
+00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:07.960
+I don't
+
+00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:09.060
+[Speaker 0]: see it there.
+
+00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:12.380
+[Speaker 4]: I could give you a link to it,
+
+00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:17.640
+because I had, I hosted it on Mega to give it
+
+00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:19.020
+to them, because when I emailed it,
+
+00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:22.200
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, okay. Is it
+
+00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:22.840
+[Speaker 4]: it didn't work. on a monkey?
+
+00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:24.100
+Download and watch it.
+
+00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.920
+I'm probably going to post it on YouTube
+
+00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:33.760
+later. I, I had my face record with it,
+
+00:38:36.020 --> 00:38:36.520
+but I never got it edited together in time
+
+00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:40.640
+[Speaker 3]: Okay, if you could if you can put the link
+
+00:38:43.140 --> 00:38:43.340
+onto the onto the ether pad or something or
+
+00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.160
+onto the wiki then then I can find it and
+
+00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:50.140
+check it out. All right,
+
+00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:53.480
+thanks. Sorry to interrupt your time,
+
+00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:56.440
+Fermin, but I figure we're heavily into the
+
+00:38:57.260 --> 00:38:57.760
+break anyways. FERMIN GENZIERIA-CHAPMANI
+
+00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:01.160
+[Speaker 2]: No problem. I'm in an EMAX conference talking
+
+00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:03.040
+about all that I mean I'm already doing
+
+00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:04.780
+blasphemy so I
+
+00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:24.800
+think that's oh yeah notes so the thing is
+
+00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:27.140
+then as my point of view,
+
+00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:29.360
+and the point of view probably of Sasaki-san,
+
+00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:30.740
+just a moment, I think,
+
+00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:35.220
+is very focused on an IDE more than a
+
+00:39:40.580 --> 00:39:41.080
+node-taking editor. More like an integrated
+
+00:39:41.540 --> 00:39:42.040
+development environment.
+
+00:39:45.040 --> 00:39:45.540
+So node is like a second thing.
+
+00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:52.000
+So not exactly the main focus.
+
+00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:54.780
+And I know that Emacs does have a very strong
+
+00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:58.940
+community of Ormode users that use Emacs for
+
+00:40:00.140 --> 00:40:00.244
+Ormode, which is the killer feature,
+
+00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:01.360
+1 of I'll do a feature.
+
+00:40:04.456 --> 00:40:04.956
+I'll do a feature of Emacs.
+
+00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:09.660
+So I'm not the maintainer of porthole.
+
+00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:20.580
+I'm sorry. I did add it to so I don't
+
+00:40:22.700 --> 00:40:23.040
+maintain the remote. I'm sorry,
+
+00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:27.840
+I'll pothole the USB. I'm only using it on
+
+00:40:31.120 --> 00:40:31.620
+the Lamington. I cannot change anything.
+
+00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:39.760
+[Speaker 4]: What are some interesting things you have
+
+00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:41.260
+with your window manager?
+
+00:40:43.780 --> 00:40:44.280
+I do have elsewhere.
+
+00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:49.600
+[Speaker 2]: I can connect to it and hack it from my
+
+00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:53.540
+editor, which I think is really fun.
+
+00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:57.220
+The way I can write, so I wrote a few
+
+00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.000
+packages for Soundallium.
+
+00:41:06.740 --> 00:41:07.240
+So 1 of them is Proton,
+
+00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:10.860
+which basically launches like a...
+
+00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:18.900
+So Proton is like this wine thing that Valve
+
+00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:22.500
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I'm a user.
+
+00:41:24.140 --> 00:41:24.640
+[Speaker 2]: did. OK, so this basically,
+
+00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:26.980
+you have like a list of,
+
+00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:32.540
+let me check. No, we're just,
+
+00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:39.020
+sorry. This, So these all games are bought by
+
+00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:41.780
+me. They're not pirates in any way.
+
+00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:46.300
+I can use this to to launch it.
+
+00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:51.200
+[Speaker 4]: Was that Dmenu or was that StumpWM menu?
+
+00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:55.240
+[Speaker 2]: This is Dmenu. So I have,
+
+00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:02.560
+I also contribute the Dmenu integration into
+
+00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:06.320
+StumwM. So I use Dmenu.
+
+00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:07.980
+So like this, right?
+
+00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:13.800
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah that's pretty cool.
+
+00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:15.940
+You don't know how nice those things are
+
+00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:17.380
+until you start using those.
+
+00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:21.780
+[Speaker 2]: The menu is very interesting and very...
+
+00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:24.560
+Also I was using RoFi,
+
+00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:26.000
+but...
+
+00:42:29.100 --> 00:42:29.540
+[Speaker 4]: I was also more... The other thing I was more
+
+00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:31.740
+mentioning is that also,
+
+00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:33.340
+being able to use D-Menu,
+
+00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:35.300
+but being able to just have keyboard
+
+00:42:38.680 --> 00:42:39.180
+oriented? Everything fuzzy search narrowed
+
+00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:45.480
+and No tabs no status bars like all of a
+
+00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:47.600
+sudden your mental model on how your computer
+
+00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:51.560
+operates goes through the roof and a lot of
+
+00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.400
+Emacs users Know what that is like Especially
+
+00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:01.740
+In conjunction with a window manager?
+
+00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:07.200
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think so. I remember when I was...
+
+00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:11.820
+So for me, I tried the Emacs window manager,
+
+00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:17.340
+but it wasn't for me. Having a single thread
+
+00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:18.960
+window manager is scary.
+
+00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:22.840
+And also games and some stuff wasn't working
+
+00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:25.240
+correctly, which it makes sense in some
+
+00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:27.840
+regards, using Emacs for window manager.
+
+00:43:30.660 --> 00:43:31.160
+Oh
+
+00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.980
+[Speaker 4]: I've used it before I found that it wasn't as
+
+00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:39.740
+like it. It's not as bad in practice because
+
+00:43:43.020 --> 00:43:43.260
+The paper cuts you don't like to hit them
+
+00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:46.000
+every day So you make sure So you make sure
+
+00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.400
+your Emacs config is a lot nicer and doesn't
+
+00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:51.300
+have those slowdowns. Or you avoid those
+
+00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:54.780
+things. It forces you to make your Emacs
+
+00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.940
+config a lot more robust to speed.
+
+00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:02.300
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, yeah. That's true,
+
+00:44:04.200 --> 00:44:04.440
+yeah. The thing, yeah,
+
+00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:06.020
+but still, I don't know,
+
+00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:09.060
+[Speaker 4]: You'll still get the paper cuts,
+
+00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:09.560
+but...
+
+00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:12.660
+[Speaker 2]: like... Yeah, and my experience was not
+
+00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:16.880
+great. I'm not a person,
+
+00:44:17.860 --> 00:44:18.360
+like, I don't want to have...
+
+00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:20.460
+Not with LEM or Emacs.
+
+00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:23.160
+I like to have different programs.
+
+00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.120
+I don't want to like, I never was in like
+
+00:44:28.040 --> 00:44:28.540
+Emacs or you know, only Emacs.
+
+00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.800
+I really love Emacs, GNU Emacs,
+
+00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:34.140
+but only Emacs? No, no,
+
+00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:35.540
+I like my browser, I like my,
+
+00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.000
+you know, my Windows Manager,
+
+00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:41.780
+my, you know, I wasn't Emacs only.
+
+00:44:45.520 --> 00:44:46.000
+Emacs is my OS. Some people are,
+
+00:44:48.600 --> 00:44:49.100
+which is good. Different kind of a...
+
+00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:52.100
+I have to say that I come from Vim,
+
+00:44:57.340 --> 00:44:57.720
+like a long time ago. But I come from Vim,
+
+00:44:58.660 --> 00:44:58.980
+so I'm using Evil Mode.
+
+00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:00.780
+And I maybe have this kind of a...
+
+00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:06.200
+Yeah. So regarding Summoner.vm,
+
+00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:10.580
+it's... I like it because it's common Lisp,
+
+00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:14.440
+but it don't have some,
+
+00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:18.620
+this, I removed this. So I'm using another
+
+00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:21.340
+model line because the model line is not
+
+00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:24.720
+great. Everything else is a little bit weird
+
+00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:29.440
+because you have frames similar to Emacs.
+
+00:45:33.560 --> 00:45:34.060
+You have a frame. You have this window,
+
+00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:36.100
+and then there's no nothing here.
+
+00:45:37.700 --> 00:45:38.100
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I've used it before.
+
+00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:40.220
+That was definitely weird.
+
+00:45:41.680 --> 00:45:42.180
+It's also nice to be able to just...
+
+00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:44.160
+Can't you put multiple windows?
+
+00:45:46.100 --> 00:45:46.600
+Can't you duplicate windows?
+
+00:45:48.040 --> 00:45:48.540
+Show the same window in 2 frames?
+
+00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:49.060
+NIGEL
+
+00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:51.520
+[Speaker 2]: GANSZELA-WALSH Never tried that.
+
+00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900
+Never occurred to me that.
+
+00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:58.020
+I don't know. Never tried that,
+
+00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:01.980
+to be honest. Let me check.
+
+00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:07.780
+No idea. Item? I think so.
+
+00:46:10.080 --> 00:46:10.320
+Because when you try to,
+
+00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:11.980
+at least not in an easy way.
+
+00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:14.260
+When you try to, so if I try to put a window
+
+00:46:16.020 --> 00:46:16.520
+here, let me move it so it,
+
+00:46:20.060 --> 00:46:20.540
+and if I try to like, so it's,
+
+00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:21.890
+yeah, no other window.
+
+00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:24.360
+[Speaker 4]: So can you open the, what is that,
+
+00:46:25.080 --> 00:46:25.440
+discord or your browser?
+
+00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:27.340
+Could you open that in both your frames?
+
+00:46:34.620 --> 00:46:35.120
+[Speaker 2]: I can I Side by side, but not the same
+
+00:46:37.740 --> 00:46:37.920
+[Speaker 0]: I mean I do I can I can have I know
+
+00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:38.600
+[Speaker 4]: can't your frames? 2 browsers you can do that
+
+00:46:42.600 --> 00:46:43.100
+[Speaker 2]: browser I never occurred to me that,
+
+00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:46.800
+[Speaker 4]: in DWM? You can't do that in XMLNet,
+
+00:46:48.560 --> 00:46:49.060
+at least I don't know what configuration
+
+00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:51.020
+you'd have to do to get to be able to do that
+
+00:46:51.140 --> 00:46:51.640
+in XMONAD.
+
+00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:54.560
+[Speaker 2]: wow. Interesting. Maybe you can.
+
+00:46:57.700 --> 00:46:58.200
+I never tried. Maybe you can?
+
+00:47:03.240 --> 00:47:03.640
+No idea. The interesting thing that I never
+
+00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:06.360
+use is that floating windows.
+
+00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:09.960
+Never use floating windows,
+
+00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:13.780
+but normal windows. You know,
+
+00:47:17.780 --> 00:47:18.160
+not. And SoundWM does have a weird support
+
+00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:25.220
+for it. Now it works. But I don't like it.
+
+00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:27.180
+For me, it was a little bit rough,
+
+00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:29.980
+the use of floating windows in SoundWM.
+
+00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.980
+I think they're way better now.
+
+00:47:36.580 --> 00:47:37.080
+I think, but yeah, I don't use it so...
+
+00:47:40.600 --> 00:47:41.100
+But there is.
+
+00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:43.940
+[Speaker 4]: You know, for me with the,
+
+00:47:45.060 --> 00:47:45.480
+like, Emacs doing everything,
+
+00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:47.380
+it's like, you got like Emacs,
+
+00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:50.740
+you got shell, and then you got the gooey
+
+00:47:56.520 --> 00:47:56.760
+Wild West. Yeah. Like,
+
+00:47:58.940 --> 00:47:59.440
+with Emacs, I know, I'll generally get,
+
+00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:01.780
+oh, this is going to be configured in?
+
+00:48:04.160 --> 00:48:04.660
+It's either gonna be shell script,
+
+00:48:06.180 --> 00:48:06.340
+Python or Emacs. Oh wait,
+
+00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:07.500
+no, it's gonna be Emacs.
+
+00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:10.180
+Variable's gonna be written in SecQ,
+
+00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:10.880
+period.
+
+00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.140
+[Speaker 2]: Well, I don't use too much scripting,
+
+00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.540
+but I'd like to, for example,
+
+00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:22.040
+I had to do a, so the automatic installer
+
+00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:26.500
+for, for Debian base, Debian stuff for Linux
+
+00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:30.840
+for, for LEM. I was thinking of doing in bash
+
+00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:33.020
+and I say, I don't want to do it in Bash.
+
+00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:35.880
+So I just did it in SVC and Commodisp,
+
+00:48:37.660 --> 00:48:38.100
+which does have like a scripting feature.
+
+00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:41.040
+You can put a script and it will create your
+
+00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:41.660
+own script.
+
+00:48:45.860 --> 00:48:46.280
+[Speaker 4]: 1 of the main people behind Next,
+
+00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:50.880
+he did a talk on using Common Lisp as a
+
+00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:52.220
+replacement for a shell.
+
+00:48:58.700 --> 00:48:59.200
+[Speaker 2]: Yes, it was... I know him.
+
+00:49:00.680 --> 00:49:01.180
+I know that he exists.
+
+00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:04.900
+Next, I think it's a main maintainer of Nix,
+
+00:49:09.140 --> 00:49:09.620
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, although his website's kind of,
+
+00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:10.880
+I think he took it down.
+
+00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:12.780
+[Speaker 2]: Ambrevar. Yeah, I think he,
+
+00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:14.980
+yeah, he took it down.
+
+00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:17.680
+[Speaker 4]: So if you want to, you can look at it in Time
+
+00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:18.180
+Machine.
+
+00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:24.440
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I do have that article in my bookmarks,
+
+00:49:26.740 --> 00:49:27.240
+I think, somewhere. I remember reading that.
+
+00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:30.840
+So also, I would like to keep separated
+
+00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:33.380
+things in that way to have shell and then
+
+00:49:37.940 --> 00:49:38.440
+Emacs or LEM. Like for Emacs I use Viter.
+
+00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:41.260
+I don't like that it has different,
+
+00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.260
+you know.
+
+00:49:44.900 --> 00:49:45.060
+[Speaker 4]: On the same time though,
+
+00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:47.120
+I also don't like my terminal not to be able
+
+00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:52.600
+to click URLs and I like I like my terminal
+
+00:49:54.560 --> 00:49:55.060
+to have history and you know to scroll
+
+00:49:58.040 --> 00:49:58.200
+position copy paste You can do some of that
+
+00:50:00.020 --> 00:50:00.160
+stuff, but you know how that stuff go on the
+
+00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:02.080
+killer ring I kind of view it as like an
+
+00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:03.300
+alternative to shell.
+
+00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:07.080
+[Speaker 2]: Fair enough, but I think when some for my
+
+00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:09.220
+terminal, I only use it for navigate,
+
+00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:11.780
+remove stuff, so basic stuff.
+
+00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:14.640
+When I have to like, I don't know,
+
+00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:18.140
+edit something, just open the...
+
+00:50:22.120 --> 00:50:22.400
+[Speaker 4]: I like to use completion and narrowing to
+
+00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:24.720
+find my files. I kind of wish I could do that
+
+00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:26.600
+[Speaker 0]: on the shell or like if you use
+
+00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:27.640
+[Speaker 4]: more D-Menu to do that.
+
+00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:28.760
+That would be, I'm sure,
+
+00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:29.260
+nicer.
+
+00:50:38.140 --> 00:50:38.240
+[Speaker 2]: There's a lot of tools for terminals to do
+
+00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:39.880
+that, right? But you have to configure all of
+
+00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.780
+them. Beam users are very aware of those
+
+00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:47.300
+tools. You know, having very good fuzzy
+
+00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:49.440
+finding of files and then all by the
+
+00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:54.100
+terminal. I do have a friend who is a user of
+
+00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:57.320
+the Forbidden Editor, he's good,
+
+00:51:01.900 --> 00:51:02.400
+that does have a lot of small,
+
+00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:09.980
+like fuzzy finding, and so complete commands,
+
+00:51:12.240 --> 00:51:12.740
+and call those images in the terminal,
+
+00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:14.800
+all sorts of crazy stuff.
+
+00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:16.620
+That I think are not overkill,
+
+00:51:20.380 --> 00:51:20.560
+but I mean, if you want to use it,
+
+00:51:29.540 --> 00:51:30.040
+go ahead. So yeah. The thing is that,
+
+00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:32.860
+So trickling back a little bit to LEM,
+
+00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:35.860
+I think an interesting thought that I have
+
+00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:37.780
+about LEM and I can do Emacs.
+
+00:51:40.680 --> 00:51:41.180
+Not now, because LEM is a very small,
+
+00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:44.240
+like literally people,
+
+00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.500
+at least developers and users,
+
+00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:50.780
+I don't know, maybe 10 less.
+
+00:51:56.780 --> 00:51:57.280
+But people may think, split the community,
+
+00:51:58.740 --> 00:51:58.900
+right? That's the main thing that should come
+
+00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:00.460
+to my mind, split the community,
+
+00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:02.140
+maybe you, because that's true.
+
+00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:04.280
+I mean, I'm not developing that much in Nui
+
+00:52:06.260 --> 00:52:06.760
+MacLisp because I'm developing them.
+
+00:52:12.080 --> 00:52:12.580
+That's not that I'm a force that you might
+
+00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:13.860
+think exists or anything,
+
+00:52:17.220 --> 00:52:17.400
+but you know, you're splitting a very small
+
+00:52:21.600 --> 00:52:21.760
+community. Not that LEM wants to do that or
+
+00:52:24.160 --> 00:52:24.360
+anything, or will be able to in any way,
+
+00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:25.780
+but you know what I mean.
+
+00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:32.780
+I thought about that, And I think it's an
+
+00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:40.800
+interesting concern. But that concern also
+
+00:52:42.180 --> 00:52:42.680
+stops innovation in some way.
+
+00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:47.460
+[Speaker 4]: I think you can, if you look at the example
+
+00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:50.680
+of how many EMAX talks are related to
+
+00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:54.960
+knowledge management and not all and like for
+
+00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.100
+instance denote and Orgrim don't really work
+
+00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:01.880
+together all that well they split the
+
+00:53:03.740 --> 00:53:03.960
+community so to say I don't think they make
+
+00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:05.220
+it weaker at all, though.
+
+00:53:08.560 --> 00:53:08.800
+I think you were saying competition is good,
+
+00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:10.500
+but yeah, competition is good.
+
+00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:12.360
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I agree on that.
+
+00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:13.780
+I want to put it in the...
+
+00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:15.900
+But, you know, I'm doing the devil's advocate
+
+00:53:18.252 --> 00:53:18.271
+[Speaker 0]: something, that's... The developer gates in
+
+00:53:18.308 --> 00:53:18.327
+this regard. Like
+
+00:53:18.327 --> 00:53:18.346
+[Speaker 2]: in this regard. If someone wants to say if
+
+00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:19.780
+someone wants to like say something that
+
+00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:23.160
+maybe, you know, because some people still
+
+00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:30.940
+remember the Emacs versus X Emacs thing in
+
+00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.360
+the past, you know, that the split of the and
+
+00:53:38.100 --> 00:53:38.240
+That was good in some way but also bad in
+
+00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:39.960
+others like the compatibility was a little
+
+00:53:42.560 --> 00:53:43.040
+bit of a hell You know at the end Emacs
+
+00:53:46.160 --> 00:53:46.440
+failed, no Emacs But at that time it wasn't
+
+00:53:50.140 --> 00:53:50.500
+that clear and some people like it wasn't
+
+00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:53.360
+there. And I can understand that kind of a
+
+00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:53.860
+feeling.
+
+00:53:58.820 --> 00:53:59.040
+[Speaker 4]: Well sometimes the steps forward you end up
+
+00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:02.760
+going Like you're on a hill and you want to
+
+00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:06.000
+[Speaker 0]: the way the path to get up to
+
+00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:06.720
+[Speaker 4]: get to a higher hill, but that higher hill
+
+00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.280
+goes down and up. It doesn't mean that even
+
+00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:12.600
+if you know you're going down,
+
+00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:14.340
+it doesn't mean that it was a mistake.
+
+00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:20.020
+[Speaker 2]: Okay, fair enough. And also another
+
+00:54:22.120 --> 00:54:22.360
+interesting thing that I want to envision in
+
+00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:25.720
+the future, if I have time or someone wants
+
+00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:28.740
+to help me with, is I want them to have
+
+00:54:30.240 --> 00:54:30.740
+different language for extension,
+
+00:54:32.560 --> 00:54:33.060
+different Lisp for extension,
+
+00:54:36.340 --> 00:54:36.840
+not only common Lisp, but Scheme closure.
+
+00:54:39.680 --> 00:54:40.080
+And maybe not EmacLisp probably,
+
+00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:47.000
+[Speaker 4]: that what Guile Emacs is trying to do?
+
+00:54:47.860 --> 00:54:48.080
+[Speaker 2]: but yeah. And funny enough- Isn't Guile Emacs
+
+00:54:50.060 --> 00:54:50.560
+tried to add Guile support to,
+
+00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540
+but Guile is not scheme.
+
+00:54:53.560 --> 00:54:53.800
+Well, it's kind of scheme,
+
+00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:54.940
+but it's not all schemes,
+
+00:54:58.580 --> 00:54:58.780
+which is, you know, and it was just to
+
+00:55:02.540 --> 00:55:03.040
+replace EmacLisp with Gile.
+
+00:55:06.940 --> 00:55:07.260
+You have 2 both. It was similar in that way,
+
+00:55:12.100 --> 00:55:12.340
+but the thing is, Common Lisp does have a lot
+
+00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:13.220
+of interesting things.
+
+00:55:16.120 --> 00:55:16.620
+So someone wrote a closure in Common Lisp.
+
+00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:21.140
+Which is called Cloture.
+
+00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:29.860
+Someone wrote, well it's on the way but it's
+
+00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:35.740
+getting there, a standard scheme in Common
+
+00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:39.940
+Lisp. So to add support to LEM,
+
+00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:44.940
+will be as easy as import package,
+
+00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:46.860
+and you have, And if that language,
+
+00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.060
+which usually does, supports very well
+
+00:55:51.740 --> 00:55:51.900
+interaction between the host language and the
+
+00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:53.420
+language that tries to provide,
+
+00:55:57.040 --> 00:55:57.180
+you will mostly automatically have new
+
+00:55:58.060 --> 00:55:58.560
+language for the editor.
+
+00:56:05.640 --> 00:56:06.100
+[Speaker 4]: I think the more interesting hanging fruit
+
+00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.780
+would be like using Next to scrape websites,
+
+00:56:12.500 --> 00:56:13.000
+download CSV bank statements,
+
+00:56:15.940 --> 00:56:16.440
+integrating with like password managers and
+
+00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:28.180
+or using... yeah you could still do with
+
+00:56:30.120 --> 00:56:30.620
+[Speaker 2]: But isn't that more like next thing oh yeah
+
+00:56:31.460 --> 00:56:31.580
+yeah I
+
+00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:32.520
+[Speaker 4]: common list though mean what's your your
+
+00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:35.260
+other options would be Selenium,
+
+00:56:41.200 --> 00:56:41.580
+JavaScript, Next already gives you the REPL
+
+00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:48.300
+for that. Or when you had that Ambryvar talk,
+
+00:56:50.060 --> 00:56:50.220
+when he, I don't know if you watched it,
+
+00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:53.420
+but when you use a shell and a command takes
+
+00:56:56.060 --> 00:56:56.200
+takes a while It just automatically takes you
+
+00:56:58.440 --> 00:56:58.580
+back into your shell and says I'll just let
+
+00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:00.800
+this run in the background or being able to
+
+00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:03.260
+more easily run commands in parallel.
+
+00:57:13.620 --> 00:57:13.880
+[Speaker 2]: But that's not like Nix stuff,
+
+00:57:18.740 --> 00:57:19.140
+[Speaker 4]: The Ambrivar, the shell 1,
+
+00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:21.900
+[Speaker 2]: right? Not like? When he did it,
+
+00:57:23.380 --> 00:57:23.580
+he. Because 1
+
+00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:25.440
+[Speaker 4]: wasn't. of the things He did in that when he
+
+00:57:30.040 --> 00:57:30.160
+was using the repl in place of the shell is 1
+
+00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:31.740
+of the things in there was if,
+
+00:57:33.720 --> 00:57:34.120
+let's say you were compiling a program,
+
+00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:37.040
+that takes a while. If it took longer than
+
+00:57:40.240 --> 00:57:40.440
+like 3 seconds or something along those
+
+00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:42.740
+lines, it would kick you back into the shell
+
+00:57:44.260 --> 00:57:44.660
+and say, oh, we're waiting for this program
+
+00:57:48.160 --> 00:57:48.380
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, interesting. And
+
+00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:49.340
+[Speaker 4]: to run, to finish. then you could,
+
+00:57:51.200 --> 00:57:51.600
+and then it had back reference support.
+
+00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:55.520
+So you could say, Oh, app search for this
+
+00:57:58.480 --> 00:57:58.820
+program. And then with the,
+
+00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:01.220
+with the shell, I, when I want to search,
+
+00:58:04.460 --> 00:58:04.640
+I'll then grep through that list to narrow it
+
+00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:07.180
+down even further, but I do a whole new
+
+00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:08.900
+search. It just says, oh,
+
+00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:11.100
+just grep through what I already searched.
+
+00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:14.680
+Just grep through the results of the command
+
+00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:16.440
+that's 3 commands ago.
+
+00:58:17.980 --> 00:58:18.180
+[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So it
+
+00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:24.380
+[Speaker 4]: runs instantly. Or look for my build errors
+
+00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:26.340
+in my compilation output,
+
+00:58:29.700 --> 00:58:30.060
+[Speaker 0]: rather than trying to build it again grepping
+
+00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:30.860
+for the errors.
+
+00:58:33.640 --> 00:58:34.120
+[Speaker 2]: I was checking, so where's that project?
+
+00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:36.920
+I was looking for it. You know,
+
+00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:45.040
+the... Yeah, I want to check the,
+
+00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.500
+[Speaker 4]: There was a talk. I also had a webpage.
+
+00:58:55.080 --> 00:58:55.580
+[Speaker 2]: you know... This red bull?
+
+00:58:58.260 --> 00:58:58.760
+No, this is not what I meant.
+
+00:59:34.174 --> 00:59:34.674
+[Speaker 0]: What is it? What is it?
+
+00:59:47.664 --> 00:59:48.164
+I cannot find the... I was trying to find
+
+00:59:54.180 --> 00:59:54.680
+[Speaker 2]: the repo for... It's C-L-E-S-H,
+
+00:59:59.640 --> 00:59:59.840
+like a unit shell for interface with for
+
+01:00:02.080 --> 01:00:02.580
+common Lisp? Is that the thing?
+
+01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.160
+[Speaker 0]: I don't know. I'm
+
+01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:12.760
+[Speaker 4]: trying to find the link to his old,
+
+01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:17.060
+no longer website. Website.
+
+01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:22.000
+[Speaker 2]: Skip. Technical issues.
+
+01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:23.900
+Maybe this 1.
+
+01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.320
+I cannot find it.
+
+01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:38.300
+[Speaker 4]: I got it.
+
+01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640
+[Speaker 0]: Go to that link. Okay.
+
+01:01:02.020 --> 01:01:02.220
+[Speaker 4]: There's also a FOSDM target associated with
+
+01:01:02.380 --> 01:01:02.880
+it too.
+
+01:01:07.600 --> 01:01:08.100
+[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, interesting. Clash and CH.
+
+01:01:13.520 --> 01:01:14.020
+CH. Oh, I was looking at the clesh.
+
+01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:19.140
+Clish, so the, let's check for it.
+
+01:01:23.560 --> 01:01:23.860
+The other 1 is shell and camel.
+
+01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:24.620
+This 1.
+
+01:01:37.505 --> 01:01:38.005
+[Speaker 0]: Interesting. Oops. Close Oops.
+
+01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:41.400
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, it's a GNU project.
+
+01:01:44.660 --> 01:01:45.160
+Oh, interesting.
+
+01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:51.680
+[Speaker 4]: The other thing that was interesting there is
+
+01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:53.260
+you use those disk images,
+
+01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:00.520
+LISP images, to have some of your common LISP
+
+01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:06.100
+utilities or programming libraries that you
+
+01:02:07.660 --> 01:02:08.040
+utilize in tandem with your REPL.
+
+01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:14.200
+So you can easily pull up a more featureful
+
+01:02:18.160 --> 01:02:18.400
+or a REPL that has more tools in it than by
+
+01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:18.900
+default.
+
+01:02:21.740 --> 01:02:22.240
+[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So yeah, that's,
+
+01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:24.880
+yeah, I mean, that will be,
+
+01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.100
+it will be fairly, no,
+
+01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:29.200
+no, easy. Well, easy, but not,
+
+01:02:33.080 --> 01:02:33.580
+But this can be integrated into LEM probably.
+
+01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:36.200
+Very, you know, not that easy because you
+
+01:02:38.520 --> 01:02:39.020
+have to change the few things.
+
+01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:44.280
+But this can be, you know.
+
+01:02:47.100 --> 01:02:47.600
+[Speaker 4]: Well, as example, he just...
+
+01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:49.860
+Well, 1 of the things that was in the talk,
+
+01:02:51.080 --> 01:02:51.300
+1 of the main ideas was,
+
+01:02:56.160 --> 01:02:56.380
+let's just, rather than trying to make the
+
+01:02:57.600 --> 01:02:58.040
+shell closer to a REPL,
+
+01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:01.280
+let's make a REPL closer to a shell,
+
+01:03:03.380 --> 01:03:03.760
+make it to where we can easily run Linux
+
+01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:07.420
+programs in it, and then use the rest of the
+
+01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:10.620
+REPL goodness, make it to where parentheses
+
+01:03:12.080 --> 01:03:12.580
+are easy to use, like paraedit,
+
+01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:21.420
+And then all of a sudden you have a nicer
+
+01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:24.640
+shell. Not really shell,
+
+01:03:24.640 --> 01:03:25.140
+but.
+
+01:03:30.020 --> 01:03:30.520
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, this is huge.
+
+01:03:33.520 --> 01:03:33.960
+[Speaker 6]: Hi, folks. Sorry for the interruption.
+
+01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:35.700
+It's Leo from the general track.
+
+01:03:39.380 --> 01:03:39.600
+We are about to go back live on the
+
+01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.040
+development track, so you can continue the
+
+01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:43.480
+discussion. You know, we are recording
+
+01:03:45.200 --> 01:03:45.360
+everything and you seem to be having a great
+
+01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:47.840
+amount of fun to issue the need for lunch,
+
+01:03:49.080 --> 01:03:49.580
+at least for the people in the US.
+
+01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:51.360
+I just want to let you know,
+
+01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:53.860
+in 2 minutes' time, we will be moving back to
+
+01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:55.340
+the rest of the talk for the afternoon,
+
+01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:57.040
+but feel free to stay in a room and keep
+
+01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.260
+discussing. All right?
+
+01:04:01.160 --> 01:04:01.660
+[Speaker 2]: Thank you. All right.
+
+01:04:03.640 --> 01:04:03.940
+[Speaker 6]: It might be a little brutal in 2 minutes,
+
+01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:08.240
+so if you have your watch synchronized at 7
+
+01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:09.520
+sharps, so in 2 minutes,
+
+01:04:10.040 --> 01:04:10.540
+it'll cut off.
+
+01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:20.100
+[Speaker 2]: Okay. Bye-bye. Bye. Oh my.
+
+01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:24.360
+Yeah. Interesting stuff indeed.
+
+01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:29.540
+[Speaker 4]: to listen to it after you're done with the
+
+01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:32.540
+[Speaker 0]: I guess you have Have you
+
+01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:33.980
+[Speaker 4]: comp. ever listened to that talk before?
+
+01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:38.800
+The 1 that's in that webpage,
+
+01:04:39.380 --> 01:04:39.880
+the FOSDEM 1.
+
+01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:41.340
+[Speaker 2]: Which 1? Sorry? 0 yeah,
+
+01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:44.980
+I in fact saw him live in the FOSDEM 2020.
+
+01:04:50.053 --> 01:04:50.091
+[Speaker 0]: So I a little bit. 2020.
+
+01:04:50.166 --> 01:04:50.204
+So we him
+
+01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:51.980
+[Speaker 2]: talked with him a little bit The first time
+
+01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:56.260
+is here in well here in Europe here in
+
+01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:01.440
+Brussels like 3 hours away or 2 hours away in
+
+01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:02.820
+plane from where I am.
+
+01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:05.800
+[Speaker 0]: 1 of the things that's kind of interesting
+
+01:05:06.900 --> 01:05:07.040
+with, you have some of
+
+01:05:09.060 --> 01:05:09.160
+[Speaker 4]: the people who come from Europe to the US and
+
+01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:11.980
+they're like, oh, I want to visit all the
+
+01:05:13.780 --> 01:05:14.060
+corners of the US in a couple of days.
+
+01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:18.420
+And it's like, No, US is the size of Europe.
+
+01:05:19.740 --> 01:05:19.960
+[Speaker 0]: The
+
+01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:21.660
+[Speaker 4]: states are the size of their countries.
+
+01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:23.400
+You don't...
+
+01:05:27.100 --> 01:05:27.600
+[Speaker 2]: I know. I know. It's very...
+
+01:05:30.660 --> 01:05:31.080
+It's huge. And it's like 6 hours different
+
+01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:32.780
+from coast to coast, something like that.
+
+01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:38.240
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, and that's driving as fast as you can
+
+01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:40.140
+on the freeway, on the best roads that you
+
+01:05:41.160 --> 01:05:41.660
+possibly can, not taking...
+
+01:05:45.700 --> 01:05:46.200
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, that would be...
+
+01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:53.900
+So the thing that I try to do also with LEM
+
+01:05:57.880 --> 01:05:58.140
+is to move my workflow from LEM to Emax,
+
+01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120
+so for Emax to LEM, use it more.
+
+01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:07.580
+And I hope to, we still have a long way to go
+
+01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:08.940
+in terms of usability,
+
+01:06:10.600 --> 01:06:11.100
+in terms of other things,
+
+01:06:12.640 --> 01:06:13.140
+because we need more power.
+
+01:06:18.420 --> 01:06:18.620
+So This is also my attempt to do some
+
+01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:20.820
+publicity to the Blend project itself,
+
+01:06:23.100 --> 01:06:23.600
+to need to add more users,
+
+01:06:26.200 --> 01:06:26.700
+to be willing to try and to fail trying,
+
+01:06:29.640 --> 01:06:30.140
+because we still have some rough edges.
+
+01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:38.820
+Yeah, just trying to do that,
+
+01:06:41.720 --> 01:06:42.220
+which is, and I apologize to the Emaclist
+
+01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:43.740
+community, which I'm part of,
+
+01:06:44.660 --> 01:06:45.140
+but I don't want to like,
+
+01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:47.520
+disencourage the use of getting Emacs anyway.
+
+01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:49.460
+I think both are awesome.
+
+01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:51.800
+I want to anyone to get a real impression.
+
+01:06:57.040 --> 01:06:57.100
+[Speaker 0]: What do
+
+01:06:57.740 --> 01:06:58.240
+[Speaker 2]: you think? PlasmaStrike,
+
+01:07:01.560 --> 01:07:02.060
+you have a very powerful name.
+
+01:07:07.580 --> 01:07:07.840
+[Speaker 4]: I don't think that's something to worry
+
+01:07:09.660 --> 01:07:10.160
+about. I don't personally,
+
+01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:15.760
+but I'm going to watch the EMMS talk.
+
+01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:17.560
+That's something that I don't really use too
+
+01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:21.220
+much on my Emacs config.
+
+01:07:22.600 --> 01:07:23.100
+So I'm going to let you go.
+
+01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:24.720
+[Speaker 2]: OK, yeah, I'm going to go.
+
+01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:26.760
+I'm going to maybe watch the garbage
+
+01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:28.300
+collector talk, which is interesting.
+
+01:07:32.540 --> 01:07:33.040
+So thank you all very much.
+
+01:07:35.860 --> 01:07:36.080
+I'm gonna go. Thanks for the questions and
+
+01:07:40.811 --> 01:07:41.288
+all that. I think I hope I answered correctly
+
+01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:47.540
+[Speaker 4]: is part of the value of being part of this is
+
+01:07:50.580 --> 01:07:50.740
+[Speaker 2]: all of them. Yeah, I figure this that's a way
+
+01:07:52.540 --> 01:07:53.040
+[Speaker 4]: conversations. So of saying thank you for
+
+01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:54.980
+people sharing interesting talks.
+
+01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:57.940
+[Speaker 2]: Indeed. Thank you all very much for going to
+
+01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:02.880
+the Emacs conf and to watch me.
+
+01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:06.940
+So thank you all very much.
+
+01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:09.860
+I'm going to go do that.
+
+01:08:10.640 --> 01:08:10.890
+[Speaker 0]: See you.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ad378f78
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1829 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:06.140 --> 00:00:06.640
+[Speaker 0]: And I think we are live.
+
+00:00:07.580 --> 00:00:08.080
+Hi, Yanny, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:10.460 --> 00:00:10.760
+[Speaker 1]: Excellent, excellent. Doing very well,
+
+00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:11.460
+thank you.
+
+00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:14.480
+[Speaker 0]: So that was a wonderful presentation.
+
+00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:17.940
+I first want to commend you on your ability
+
+00:00:22.040 --> 00:00:22.200
+to both do the how the user encounters the
+
+00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:25.460
+MMS, how the developer might be interested
+
+00:00:28.680 --> 00:00:28.920
+about how it works, and I feel like you've
+
+00:00:30.720 --> 00:00:31.200
+done a wonderful job of talking to absolutely
+
+00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:32.200
+everyone in our audience,
+
+00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:33.120
+whatever their skill level.
+
+00:00:34.120 --> 00:00:34.620
+So thank you so much for this.
+
+00:00:37.800 --> 00:00:38.300
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that of course runs the risk of being,
+
+00:00:41.580 --> 00:00:41.940
+you know, good for some,
+
+00:00:42.980 --> 00:00:43.480
+but excellent for none.
+
+00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:47.280
+But hopefully the result is that people can
+
+00:00:48.380 --> 00:00:48.880
+get something out of it.
+
+00:00:51.820 --> 00:00:52.080
+I think it's very important to make sure that
+
+00:00:55.680 --> 00:00:55.900
+everyone feels that they have access to
+
+00:00:57.239 --> 00:00:57.739
+Emacs, they have access to EMMS,
+
+00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.140
+that they can do this in whatever capacity
+
+00:01:02.800 --> 00:01:03.300
+they want. It's for everyone.
+
+00:01:05.440 --> 00:01:05.940
+I really believe that.
+
+00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:09.720
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, and I understand this risk about having
+
+00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:11.180
+a talk that is kind of a jack-of-all-trades,
+
+00:01:14.440 --> 00:01:14.940
+but frankly you've done a wonderful job of
+
+00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:17.060
+making it interesting for everyone,
+
+00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:19.900
+because also I think the parts worked really
+
+00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:22.000
+well, and people always had something to look
+
+00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:24.479
+forward in terms of their expertise of what
+
+00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:25.680
+particularly spoke to them.
+
+00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:27.720
+So thank you again. What I'm going to do,
+
+00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:29.940
+we have about 14 minutes of Q&A,
+
+00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:31.080
+So I'll invite people,
+
+00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:33.520
+as I usually do, to add their questions in
+
+00:01:35.320 --> 00:01:35.760
+the other pad that you can find on the talks
+
+00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:38.760
+or on IRC. You can also join us in the
+
+00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:40.320
+discussion. I will make sure this time to
+
+00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:42.680
+ping Sasha to open the Q&A.
+
+00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:45.180
+Can you open, I-V-E-M-M-S.
+
+00:01:48.700 --> 00:01:49.200
+All right, and in the meantime,
+
+00:01:50.940 --> 00:01:51.040
+whilst we wait for people to join us in the
+
+00:01:52.360 --> 00:01:52.540
+room, I will start reading some of the
+
+00:01:53.960 --> 00:01:54.460
+questions off the pad.
+
+00:01:57.180 --> 00:01:57.520
+So we had the first question about the music
+
+00:01:58.780 --> 00:01:59.280
+that we played during the launch break,
+
+00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:01.560
+and It's 1 of our dear friends,
+
+00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:05.700
+Shoshin Ganshangroh, a free album,
+
+00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:09.720
+Basement Dazed. I've put the link in the pad
+
+00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:12.660
+and we've been using Shoshin's music for the
+
+00:02:13.420 --> 00:02:13.920
+last 3 years, I think,
+
+00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:15.560
+and everyone, people are so excited.
+
+00:02:17.220 --> 00:02:17.360
+Some people say, why is it so noisy in the
+
+00:02:18.480 --> 00:02:18.800
+background? But it's just because there's 1
+
+00:02:20.940 --> 00:02:21.420
+part of the different tracks that sounds like
+
+00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:24.520
+static and it always gets people.
+
+00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:26.040
+We should probably do something about this,
+
+00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:28.020
+but frankly it makes me laugh every time.
+
+00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:30.920
+Starting with the first actual question,
+
+00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:33.140
+well actually it's a bit of a meme question,
+
+00:02:34.340 --> 00:02:34.640
+for the next Emacs Con,
+
+00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:37.440
+could we have an eMMS playlist to follow the
+
+00:02:37.760 --> 00:02:38.260
+talks along?
+
+00:02:43.940 --> 00:02:44.060
+[Speaker 1]: Oh that sounds like an excellent idea but I
+
+00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:46.720
+guess I'm wondering what they mean exactly by
+
+00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:49.280
+that. Is that a shareable playlist that we
+
+00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:54.720
+can pass along and just have people go to a
+
+00:02:56.320 --> 00:02:56.600
+URL and just be able to play that?
+
+00:02:58.620 --> 00:02:59.060
+I think that's an excellent idea.
+
+00:03:00.660 --> 00:03:01.160
+It should be a relatively low bandwidth
+
+00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:02.280
+process.
+
+00:03:06.580 --> 00:03:06.740
+[Speaker 0]: And it's typically the type of stuff that is
+
+00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:11.000
+right of our alley. I'm thinking about the
+
+00:03:15.480 --> 00:03:15.980
+ICS file that we produce for all the events
+
+00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:17.320
+that are related to Emacs.
+
+00:03:18.820 --> 00:03:19.240
+You know the workshop that happened in Paris
+
+00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:22.500
+or in New York, LA? Sasha compiles a list of
+
+00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:23.920
+all the events and when they happen,
+
+00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:25.760
+and then we provide this to everyone.
+
+00:03:27.040 --> 00:03:27.160
+And we can do very much the same with
+
+00:03:29.380 --> 00:03:29.580
+EmacsConf. You could have a playlist for
+
+00:03:31.980 --> 00:03:32.420
+EmacsConf 2023, where you get all the talks
+
+00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:34.900
+and perhaps also the Q&A sessions so that you
+
+00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:36.960
+can relieve the 16 hours of content that
+
+00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:38.200
+we're producing. That'd be great,
+
+00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:39.740
+that's a great idea I think.
+
+00:03:43.660 --> 00:03:44.160
+[Speaker 1]: Absolutely, and if there are any limitations
+
+00:03:48.060 --> 00:03:48.420
+in the Emacs playlist structure that things
+
+00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:50.140
+are missing in the playlist structure,
+
+00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:53.480
+then it would be a great impetus to implement
+
+00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:55.520
+those and extend the playlist structure.
+
+00:03:57.380 --> 00:03:57.860
+Because after all, it's Lisp,
+
+00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:01.620
+it really is data and functions all mixed
+
+00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:03.580
+together, so we can do that.
+
+00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:06.360
+It would be very interesting to dive into it
+
+00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:07.420
+and see what's missing.
+
+00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:10.240
+That would be even more informative than what
+
+00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:11.180
+it can do.
+
+00:04:14.900 --> 00:04:15.060
+[Speaker 0]: Great. All right, moving on to the next
+
+00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:17.480
+question. I like to use music and audiobooks
+
+00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:18.740
+in very different ways.
+
+00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:21.600
+With music, I like shuffling by artists and
+
+00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:23.800
+with audiobooks, I want to read sequentially
+
+00:04:27.260 --> 00:04:27.380
+and pick the same playlist over a couple of
+
+00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:29.540
+days or weeks. Do you have any tips for using
+
+00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:31.360
+these 2 opposing media's workflow?
+
+00:04:38.520 --> 00:04:38.940
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, so I have similar situations where I
+
+00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:44.420
+have very long endurance races that I watch,
+
+00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:47.440
+which I do all my media consumption is done
+
+00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:51.220
+via EMMS. I also listened to music.
+
+00:04:54.020 --> 00:04:54.520
+And so there's also a middle in between.
+
+00:04:57.980 --> 00:04:58.480
+There's 1 end in which you have popular
+
+00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:02.020
+music. These are standalone songs that are
+
+00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:05.080
+typically 3 to 4 minute long and they are
+
+00:05:07.900 --> 00:05:08.400
+best consumed in a random you know order
+
+00:05:09.780 --> 00:05:10.280
+because they are designed around,
+
+00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:12.580
+you know, a commercial radio distribution.
+
+00:05:15.140 --> 00:05:15.580
+I guess I'm dating myself by saying radio,
+
+00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:17.620
+but you know all the that.
+
+00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:21.440
+In the middle there are longer works like
+
+00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:26.600
+musicals and classical where these are units
+
+00:05:30.200 --> 00:05:30.360
+where they might be very long but you would
+
+00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:33.420
+have several tracks that you do want to have
+
+00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:35.800
+1 after the other, and you want to be able to
+
+00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:38.860
+stop and go to the next track.
+
+00:05:40.760 --> 00:05:41.260
+And then at the very, very other end,
+
+00:05:44.020 --> 00:05:44.520
+you have extremely long format,
+
+00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:46.860
+which is included in a single file,
+
+00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:48.420
+such as an audio book,
+
+00:05:51.400 --> 00:05:51.900
+a movie, a tutorial that you're watching,
+
+00:05:54.100 --> 00:05:54.320
+or in my case, you know,
+
+00:05:56.580 --> 00:05:57.040
+a 24 hour, the 24 hours of Le Mans,
+
+00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:58.440
+just the 24 hour race,
+
+00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:01.620
+which, you know, that's 1 heck of a file.
+
+00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:07.660
+So that is 1 of the reasons eMMS has a number
+
+00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:10.640
+of elements such as the meta playlist mode
+
+00:06:11.260 --> 00:06:11.760
+and multiple playlists.
+
+00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:16.480
+So I would say that they would open a number
+
+00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:19.680
+of playlists in eMMS, generate a number of
+
+00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:26.540
+playlists that have each class of media.
+
+00:06:28.940 --> 00:06:29.320
+So the shorter form songs,
+
+00:06:33.580 --> 00:06:34.080
+the more pop songs you have in 1 playlist
+
+00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:36.140
+where you can sort, shuffle it,
+
+00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:38.300
+you know, save it, do whatever you want.
+
+00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:42.360
+Then a separate playlist for the long form
+
+00:06:44.340 --> 00:06:44.840
+stuff. Sometimes that playlist will have even
+
+00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:49.460
+only 1 file in it if it's long enough,
+
+00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:52.300
+then have a key combination which takes you
+
+00:06:55.280 --> 00:06:55.780
+directly to 1 playlist or the other,
+
+00:06:57.340 --> 00:06:57.840
+and within the long-form playlist,
+
+00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:02.480
+looking at the bookmarking function of EMMS,
+
+00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:06.660
+which is designed around being able to save a
+
+00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:10.580
+particular stopping point or multiple
+
+00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:12.540
+stopping points, bookmarks in the audio,
+
+00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:15.800
+and being able to jump back into that audio.
+
+00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:19.100
+The point to remember about the bookmarking
+
+00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:24.220
+feature is that sometimes it really depends
+
+00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:26.460
+on you have to have the right back end.
+
+00:07:28.900 --> 00:07:29.400
+Not all back ends with replaying,
+
+00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:33.220
+not all types of media work well with a
+
+00:07:36.200 --> 00:07:36.660
+bookmarking function, and bug reports
+
+00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:39.460
+welcome. But also there are other backends
+
+00:07:44.820 --> 00:07:45.140
+such as MPV where you can configure it that
+
+00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:50.360
+when you quit playing the song or the media
+
+00:07:55.080 --> 00:07:55.580
+with, you know, cue internally.
+
+00:07:58.140 --> 00:07:58.640
+So sometimes the back end has to continue
+
+00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:04.700
+playing that song. That's what I do in order
+
+00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:08.060
+to, on 1 hand, switch over to a...
+
+00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:10.000
+I want to hear... I'm coding,
+
+00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:11.240
+I want to hear some music,
+
+00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:13.360
+I go to my playlist of short songs,
+
+00:08:16.280 --> 00:08:16.560
+then I'm sitting back and I want to watch a
+
+00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:20.540
+long form something from where I left off and
+
+00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:22.740
+there I go to the other playlist and use
+
+00:08:26.140 --> 00:08:26.380
+bookmarks or the features of the back end
+
+00:08:26.780 --> 00:08:27.280
+that I'm using.
+
+00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:31.700
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, thank you for the answer.
+
+00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:34.679
+We have about 7 minutes and we have more
+
+00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:35.780
+questions, so that's great.
+
+00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:37.940
+Moving on to the next 1.
+
+00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:40.240
+Is there a way to search a music selection by
+
+00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:42.240
+lyrics? Assuming those lyrics are in the
+
+00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:44.080
+metadata or are available elsewhere,
+
+00:08:46.300 --> 00:08:46.400
+it would be neat to call songs up from the
+
+00:08:48.660 --> 00:08:49.160
+lyrics to the song. Perhaps is this
+
+00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:51.360
+implemented so that you can all aliases,
+
+00:08:54.560 --> 00:08:54.720
+so they can use aliases for the song that you
+
+00:08:56.640 --> 00:08:57.100
+like, defining those aliases or shortcuts
+
+00:08:58.200 --> 00:08:58.680
+either inside or outside eMMS?
+
+00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:00.060
+Okay, so I think you've got 2 questions.
+
+00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:02.000
+First about the lyrics and then the aliases.
+
+00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:08.560
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so it's effectively not possible to do
+
+00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:11.120
+right now. There's a sense in which it is,
+
+00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:15.020
+but not really. What actually needs to
+
+00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:19.320
+happen? The problem is that the caching
+
+00:09:21.780 --> 00:09:22.280
+system is extremely naive.
+
+00:09:24.800 --> 00:09:24.960
+It's just really a hash that's written to
+
+00:09:30.560 --> 00:09:31.060
+disk. And maybe now with SQLite integration
+
+00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:35.380
+or other or just the fact that computers have
+
+00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:39.440
+a lot more speed and space than they used to
+
+00:09:43.340 --> 00:09:43.580
+have, we need to expand the cache to be a lot
+
+00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:47.520
+more greedy and a lot more flexible so that
+
+00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:52.860
+we can store things such as lyrics in as part
+
+00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:56.200
+of the metadata. There's no reason not to do
+
+00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:02.440
+that. Unless your collection would have to be
+
+00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:07.060
+truly enormous in order to slow things down.
+
+00:10:09.860 --> 00:10:10.200
+We wouldn't even need to compress the lyrics
+
+00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:11.820
+in order to store them like that.
+
+00:10:15.920 --> 00:10:16.120
+But that is a goal. So our rewrite of the
+
+00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:18.340
+cache is currently in progress,
+
+00:10:21.680 --> 00:10:21.940
+and the goal is to have a system where you
+
+00:10:24.920 --> 00:10:25.420
+can put any related information,
+
+00:10:30.060 --> 00:10:30.220
+including lyrics, and map that to a
+
+00:10:31.400 --> 00:10:31.900
+particular piece of the media,
+
+00:10:36.900 --> 00:10:37.060
+be it a URL or a... So you could have in a
+
+00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:40.240
+sense, you could have a URL to a lecture and
+
+00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:44.800
+the metadata associated would be some text,
+
+00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:48.100
+some notes or something else like that.
+
+00:10:51.140 --> 00:10:51.380
+[Speaker 0]: Right, so that was about the lyrics.
+
+00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:53.260
+I'm not sure how it answers the question
+
+00:10:54.560 --> 00:10:54.960
+about the aliases. I mean you can still
+
+00:10:56.380 --> 00:10:56.880
+filter what you've mentioned about the cache.
+
+00:10:59.240 --> 00:10:59.440
+I think it's... Do we consider the aliases to
+
+00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:01.620
+be anything within the metadata?
+
+00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:08.540
+[Speaker 1]: No, you're right. That is a separate
+
+00:11:12.380 --> 00:11:12.540
+question. I don't have a great answer for
+
+00:11:12.980 --> 00:11:13.480
+that right now.
+
+00:11:16.280 --> 00:11:16.500
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, great. Well, we'll put a pin on this
+
+00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:17.940
+and we can return to it.
+
+00:11:19.690 --> 00:11:19.840
+You can return to it at a later stage.
+
+00:11:21.880 --> 00:11:22.080
+Yeah. All right, moving on to the next
+
+00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:23.160
+question, then. I'll just,
+
+00:11:25.180 --> 00:11:25.680
+we'll put a pin on this.
+
+00:11:26.420 --> 00:11:26.920
+All right, next question.
+
+00:11:29.020 --> 00:11:29.220
+Are there plans for managing metadata with
+
+00:11:30.040 --> 00:11:30.540
+online resource backends,
+
+00:11:32.020 --> 00:11:32.440
+i.e. Discogs or music brains?
+
+00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:34.540
+What about something like Beats and Emacs or
+
+00:11:34.920 --> 00:11:35.420
+part of the EMMS?
+
+00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:40.640
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so that's an active discussion on the
+
+00:11:42.140 --> 00:11:42.640
+mailing list right now.
+
+00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:47.840
+We don't want to replicate what Beats does
+
+00:11:49.680 --> 00:11:50.180
+very, very well in eMMS.
+
+00:11:53.860 --> 00:11:54.360
+We don't want a clunky interface with Beats.
+
+00:11:57.440 --> 00:11:57.940
+We do want some kind of,
+
+00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:00.300
+and so it's hard to tell exactly where to
+
+00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:03.460
+draw that line. So the big answer is yes,
+
+00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:05.460
+absolutely, there is a plan to do that.
+
+00:12:09.760 --> 00:12:10.000
+The details become complicated because for 1
+
+00:12:15.900 --> 00:12:16.200
+thing, the backend, the database that
+
+00:12:18.140 --> 00:12:18.640
+MusicBrain uses, AcoustID,
+
+00:12:21.500 --> 00:12:21.820
+I don't remember if AcoustID is the binary or
+
+00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:25.960
+the database, but that's actually for
+
+00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:28.000
+non-commercial use only.
+
+00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:31.500
+So not only do you need to compile a piece of
+
+00:12:35.280 --> 00:12:35.760
+software on your computer as a shim,
+
+00:12:37.540 --> 00:12:37.680
+which is what you need to do in order to set
+
+00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:39.680
+up beats to do fingerprinting.
+
+00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:45.220
+But it also crosses this line between
+
+00:12:47.660 --> 00:12:47.900
+completely free software to completely free
+
+00:12:49.400 --> 00:12:49.900
+software interfacing with a non-commercial
+
+00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:56.420
+only service. So a lot of the discussion
+
+00:12:58.660 --> 00:12:59.160
+that's going on now is what is the contour?
+
+00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:02.660
+Where would be where we would be effective
+
+00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:09.220
+for EMMS to do management and where not?
+
+00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:12.100
+For 1 thing, I would love to be able to...
+
+00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:14.100
+1 thing that we definitely would love to be
+
+00:13:18.340 --> 00:13:18.540
+able to do is when you hit E on a file and
+
+00:13:21.540 --> 00:13:22.040
+you get all the metadata to be able to then
+
+00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:23.200
+give a command to say,
+
+00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:25.520
+hey, play to music brains and see if you can
+
+00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:26.700
+improve that metadata.
+
+00:13:29.020 --> 00:13:29.520
+Do you have better metadata,
+
+00:13:33.400 --> 00:13:33.680
+more complete metadata to complete that?
+
+00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:36.340
+That is definitely in the pipeline.
+
+00:13:40.900 --> 00:13:41.400
+How best to do it, that's a discussion.
+
+00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:45.840
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, Yoni, we have about 2 minutes until we
+
+00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:47.460
+need to go to the next talk.
+
+00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:53.080
+Okay, I'll risk it. 1 more question and a
+
+00:13:53.800 --> 00:13:54.300
+short answer if you can.
+
+00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:57.860
+Have the developers considered using Emacs
+
+00:13:59.060 --> 00:13:59.560
+customized functionality to persistently
+
+00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.120
+store settings when using eMMS setup discover
+
+00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:02.620
+players?
+
+00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.460
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, absolutely. That's another active place,
+
+00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:12.340
+especially with the discover players.
+
+00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:14.940
+How to do it exactly without annoying people
+
+00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:18.340
+and clobbering their own settings,
+
+00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:20.680
+we just need to be very careful about that.
+
+00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:23.540
+Yes, that's in the coming releases.
+
+00:14:26.520 --> 00:14:26.940
+[Speaker 0]: All right, well, Younif,
+
+00:14:27.900 --> 00:14:28.400
+thank you so much for your time.
+
+00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:29.640
+Feel free to stay in the room.
+
+00:14:30.920 --> 00:14:31.240
+I see that some people have started joining
+
+00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:34.220
+on BBB. If you have more questions,
+
+00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:37.020
+feel free to unmute yourself and ask them
+
+00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:39.900
+live. Younid, I could ask you also to perhaps
+
+00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:41.760
+answer the question. I've put the link to the
+
+00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:44.480
+pad in the BBB chat, so if you look at the...
+
+00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:47.640
+Here, I think, we're not mirrored on BBB.
+
+00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:49.280
+If you look at the left you should be able to
+
+00:14:51.500 --> 00:14:51.580
+see the chat and the questions and if you
+
+00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:52.840
+could just answer the last question that
+
+00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:55.640
+would be great. For us on the general track
+
+00:14:57.980 --> 00:14:58.180
+we will be moving to the next talk and
+
+00:14:59.700 --> 00:14:59.820
+Yannick do you have any last thing to say in
+
+00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:02.900
+[Speaker 1]: Thank everyone who put together the
+
+00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:04.820
+conference and thank you to everyone who
+
+00:15:06.680 --> 00:15:07.180
+helps with the EMMS.
+
+00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:08.440
+[Speaker 0]: 10 seconds? All right,
+
+00:15:09.160 --> 00:15:09.440
+well, thank you so much,
+
+00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:11.440
+Yoni. We'll probably see you later.
+
+00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:17.860
+Bye-bye. Wonderful. And I think we are off
+
+00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:18.760
+air. Thank you so much,
+
+00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:20.920
+Juni. I need to step out and go take care of
+
+00:15:23.260 --> 00:15:23.760
+[Speaker 1]: Okay, wonderful. Thank you very much.
+
+00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:24.520
+[Speaker 0]: the next talk. Bye-bye.
+
+00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:25.760
+And just to, I forgot to mention,
+
+00:15:27.160 --> 00:15:27.260
+but you can still talk here and everything is
+
+00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:28.620
+still being recorded. So,
+
+00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:28.940
+I'll see you later.
+
+00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:32.820
+[Speaker 2]: Excellent. Bye-bye. Bye.
+
+00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:36.100
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, hello.
+
+00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:41.100
+[Speaker 1]: Wait, you're still, I cannot hear you yet.
+
+00:15:42.900 --> 00:15:43.080
+[Speaker 4]: You are currently the only person in this
+
+00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:43.580
+conference.
+
+00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:12.780
+[Speaker 2]: Okay.
+
+00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:18.400
+[Speaker 3]: Can you hear me now? I just wanted to say hi
+
+00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:20.320
+and thank you. My name's Grant.
+
+00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:24.220
+I've, you helped me contribute to EMMS maybe
+
+00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:26.980
+2 or 3 years ago. I was trying to do the
+
+00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:28.980
+[Speaker 2]: So,
+
+00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:29.840
+[Speaker 3]: track tag stuff. yeah.
+
+00:16:32.148 --> 00:16:32.571
+So I just wanted to say thank you.
+
+00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:35.680
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you for continuing and going through
+
+00:16:38.560 --> 00:16:38.680
+that entire process. I know that 1 of the
+
+00:16:40.380 --> 00:16:40.520
+things that happens is that people want to
+
+00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:44.440
+contribute, but it's not as slick as GitHub
+
+00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:46.580
+and stuff like that, especially with the
+
+00:16:53.400 --> 00:16:53.900
+copper assignment. And objectively,
+
+00:16:56.920 --> 00:16:57.420
+it's not that. It's just harder than what
+
+00:16:58.680 --> 00:16:59.180
+they imagine it might be.
+
+00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:01.680
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Well, I appreciate it.
+
+00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.440
+I think you're doing a wonderful job as a
+
+00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:07.660
+maintainer. I still hang out on the list and
+
+00:17:09.380 --> 00:17:09.880
+enjoy listening in on the discussions.
+
+00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:10.460
+So.
+
+00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:14.626
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah. But that's it. I think that's it.
+
+00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:17.200
+I think that's it. And I think that's it.
+
+00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:17.890
+And I think that's it.
+
+00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:23.660
+I appreciate it. And I'll leave you to all of
+
+00:17:27.781 --> 00:17:27.811
+you to go on from being a product.
+
+00:17:28.088 --> 00:17:28.118
+And that she valued to all of us long term
+
+00:17:28.180 --> 00:17:28.680
+being a project.
+
+00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:31.960
+[Speaker 1]: If you're not super duper active,
+
+00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:33.720
+being there long term,
+
+00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:37.860
+people tend to find it easier trying to
+
+00:17:40.840 --> 00:17:41.060
+continue contributing to the project if
+
+00:17:42.360 --> 00:17:42.620
+there's a consistency there,
+
+00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:44.020
+if there isn't a churn,
+
+00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:48.160
+if there is a kind of a core group.
+
+00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:52.940
+I guess it's like, you think it's constant.
+
+00:17:58.280 --> 00:17:58.780
+Eliezer Etzke and RMS,
+
+00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:00.920
+whatever on the next mailing list,
+
+00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:03.540
+You know, okay, there are certain people that
+
+00:18:05.600 --> 00:18:05.800
+I think so. So thank you for that.
+
+00:18:06.340 --> 00:18:06.840
+That's very important.
+
+00:18:07.540 --> 00:18:08.040
+That helps.
+
+00:18:12.560 --> 00:18:12.940
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I'm, I feel like when I started using
+
+00:18:14.180 --> 00:18:14.540
+EMMS several years ago,
+
+00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:16.820
+it's, it's improved a lot since then.
+
+00:18:19.540 --> 00:18:20.040
+And I notice your focus on helping new users
+
+00:18:22.540 --> 00:18:22.800
+get started quickly. And I think the talk
+
+00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:24.160
+today will help with that too.
+
+00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:24.660
+So
+
+00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:32.700
+[Speaker 1]: yeah, I want to put you know,
+
+00:18:33.860 --> 00:18:34.360
+the, especially the TLDR,
+
+00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:37.640
+like how to start it on the link that to the
+
+00:18:44.080 --> 00:18:44.380
+website, find somehow that we can get on to
+
+00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:53.400
+prepare for that. And this together.
+
+00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:55.200
+Now, question for you,
+
+00:18:58.260 --> 00:18:58.620
+Where would you like to see EMMS go?
+
+00:18:59.440 --> 00:18:59.820
+Where do you see it landing?
+
+00:19:02.780 --> 00:19:02.900
+What do you feel like this is what this is
+
+00:19:04.540 --> 00:19:05.040
+we're sorely missing these things?
+
+00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:10.240
+[Speaker 3]: I don't know. I mean, I picked it up,
+
+00:19:13.540 --> 00:19:13.940
+because I both use it to play my music
+
+00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:17.320
+collection, but also, like I record my own
+
+00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:20.320
+music. And I wanted to be able to edit my
+
+00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:24.000
+metadata in Emacs, because editing metadata
+
+00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:29.220
+elsewhere sucks. And so that's kind of why I
+
+00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:30.560
+got involved with that.
+
+00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:33.940
+And I was like, being able to edit metadata,
+
+00:19:37.580 --> 00:19:37.900
+especially for content that maybe you're
+
+00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:42.180
+creating or because I have a bunch of files
+
+00:19:44.340 --> 00:19:44.700
+of just unlabeled stuff I've recorded on,
+
+00:19:45.340 --> 00:19:45.780
+you know, different quarters,
+
+00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:47.520
+things like that. So that's kind of where I
+
+00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:50.740
+was focusing on it. It's the only media tool
+
+00:19:52.540 --> 00:19:52.720
+that lets me do that, you know,
+
+00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:54.940
+I can play the music back and have quick
+
+00:19:58.260 --> 00:19:58.380
+editing. So I know there was a couple of
+
+00:20:00.860 --> 00:20:01.120
+things we had talked about in terms of maybe
+
+00:20:03.260 --> 00:20:03.480
+improving kind of the user interface for the
+
+00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:05.940
+tag editor, things like that.
+
+00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:09.600
+So I don't have any grand visions for where
+
+00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:15.800
+EMMS should go. I know pretty much all the
+
+00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:17.420
+things I've heard about it already.
+
+00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:20.700
+You can hook up to GNU FM,
+
+00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:22.440
+the Scrabbling Service,
+
+00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:23.700
+and all that kind of stuff.
+
+00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:27.180
+I don't really feel like it's missing much,
+
+00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:29.280
+especially being able to choose the back
+
+00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:32.320
+ends. I guess, if anything,
+
+00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:35.220
+it's the interface. How can it be even more
+
+00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:38.660
+intuitive for users? And I think that,
+
+00:20:41.500 --> 00:20:41.820
+you know, we need more people playing around
+
+00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:43.880
+with it, I guess. Yeah.
+
+00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:46.420
+[Speaker 2]: I think a really good
+
+00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:47.800
+[Speaker 1]: Well, yeah. example of that is,
+
+00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:49.600
+because I'm sure there are lots of people
+
+00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.740
+playing around with it,
+
+00:20:51.460 --> 00:20:51.960
+arriving at a conclusion,
+
+00:20:53.860 --> 00:20:54.360
+keeping it to themselves and moving on.
+
+00:20:59.160 --> 00:20:59.300
+Yeah. Which, and I know that a lot of bits of
+
+00:21:01.820 --> 00:21:02.160
+software put a send a bug report feature in
+
+00:21:04.660 --> 00:21:05.020
+and stuff like that and no 1 uses those
+
+00:21:07.600 --> 00:21:08.000
+either. So that's the frictional cost.
+
+00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:10.940
+I think the context switch for people between
+
+00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:16.360
+this doesn't work to actually formulating in
+
+00:21:17.840 --> 00:21:18.340
+words what didn't work,
+
+00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:21.600
+that is a very expensive context which most
+
+00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:24.980
+people will not do. And we're poorer for
+
+00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:32.660
+that. So, I think that when we integrate
+
+00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:35.240
+music brains and other things like that into.
+
+00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:37.960
+Now, of course, music brains will probably,
+
+00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:41.380
+it would be very funny if you pull up your
+
+00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:43.660
+stuff, right? Something that you wrote and
+
+00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:46.280
+you say, hey, music brains match this and
+
+00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:49.000
+it's not there, then it'll probably suggest
+
+00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:52.220
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I've heard that.
+
+00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:52.940
+[Speaker 1]: some wild things. Yeah,
+
+00:21:58.260 --> 00:21:58.400
+because there are, there was a system I was
+
+00:22:02.060 --> 00:22:02.220
+looking at its code for researching stuff for
+
+00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:04.700
+EMS And I'm trying to remember what it's
+
+00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:06.040
+named. It begins with a J,
+
+00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:07.660
+it's this media player,
+
+00:22:13.780 --> 00:22:13.940
+free floss media player that it's like a
+
+00:22:17.020 --> 00:22:17.520
+media server that can cast to a television
+
+00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:21.220
+and stuff like that. And I asked it to
+
+00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:24.780
+automatically label things and the results
+
+00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:28.380
+were horrible. It thought that half of my
+
+00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:33.400
+songs were movies. It thought that JPEGs were
+
+00:22:35.800 --> 00:22:36.220
+songs. It just, it did some,
+
+00:22:40.520 --> 00:22:41.020
+it did incredibly, it's not a solved problem,
+
+00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:45.160
+I think. So the, what I'm thinking with
+
+00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:49.540
+MusicBrainz and those services is that you
+
+00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:52.240
+hit a button and you have you get another
+
+00:22:57.040 --> 00:22:57.240
+pane with a suggestion and you either and you
+
+00:22:59.060 --> 00:22:59.240
+can copy through you can say okay copy this
+
+00:23:01.560 --> 00:23:01.760
+and this in this field over or reject the
+
+00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:04.460
+suggestion and maybe get another 1.
+
+00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:05.280
+So,
+
+00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:07.660
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I like that a lot.
+
+00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:09.480
+That's more like a diff,
+
+00:23:11.280 --> 00:23:11.640
+right? Like you get the diff between the 2
+
+00:23:13.540 --> 00:23:14.040
+and you can apply which changes you like.
+
+00:23:15.580 --> 00:23:16.080
+Yeah. Was it Jellyfin?
+
+00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:18.720
+Is that... Jellyfin? Yeah,
+
+00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:19.960
+[Speaker 1]: Jellyfin, yes.
+
+00:23:22.340 --> 00:23:22.840
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, And when that happened,
+
+00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:25.460
+did it clobber all your metadata?
+
+00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:27.940
+Or does it just label stuff?
+
+00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:29.360
+[Speaker 2]: No, it...
+
+00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:38.740
+[Speaker 1]: Escalate things somewhere inside it and to
+
+00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:49.340
+looking for really, not allow me to do very
+
+00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:55.080
+easily. So I was, so, you know,
+
+00:23:56.660 --> 00:23:56.960
+on 1 hand, it makes me feel,
+
+00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.120
+oh, we're not the only ones dealing with
+
+00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:00.840
+this. We're not the only ones struggling with
+
+00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:01.800
+this. On the other hand,
+
+00:24:05.660 --> 00:24:05.820
+it would be nice if that's a paragon that we
+
+00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:08.680
+can look to and say, this is a wonderful way
+
+00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:11.540
+of doing it. Let's incorporate as much of
+
+00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:15.520
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, it's a tricky problem,
+
+00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:18.620
+especially if you're modifying people's media
+
+00:24:19.780 --> 00:24:20.280
+files you know so
+
+00:24:23.040 --> 00:24:23.420
+[Speaker 1]: that as we can. yeah I'm also very convinced
+
+00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:32.060
+that so I'm not a mainframe for MMS because
+
+00:24:35.020 --> 00:24:35.520
+I'm old and curmudgeonly essentially in my,
+
+00:24:37.660 --> 00:24:37.900
+in the way they do it.
+
+00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:40.520
+And honestly, I rarely ever,
+
+00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:43.180
+I use the MMS browser when I need to debug
+
+00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:44.660
+the MS browser. I don't,
+
+00:24:48.740 --> 00:24:49.240
+I use very simple commands and I even rarely
+
+00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:50.940
+look at the playlists.
+
+00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:54.220
+That was 1 of the things because when I got
+
+00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:57.100
+into MMS originally when my eyesight started
+
+00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:00.140
+going so I had to rely less and less on GUI
+
+00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.300
+interfaces. So that was,
+
+00:25:06.340 --> 00:25:06.840
+so to this day that's how I use EMMS.
+
+00:25:08.560 --> 00:25:09.060
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, it's interesting.
+
+00:25:13.260 --> 00:25:13.760
+I remember running into a browser bug because
+
+00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:15.980
+I think just my age, like,
+
+00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:18.340
+I want to be able to tab through and like
+
+00:25:20.060 --> 00:25:20.560
+that was a huge that that changed recently
+
+00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:22.800
+right where you tab and it unfolds in the
+
+00:25:27.620 --> 00:25:27.980
+browser but yeah I realized that people use
+
+00:25:30.600 --> 00:25:31.100
+emms in so many different ways just like any
+
+00:25:36.020 --> 00:25:36.220
+piece of emacs there's there's many ways to
+
+00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.440
+do it but appreciate your time I'm gonna
+
+00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:42.260
+actually put together this Christmas tree
+
+00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:43.900
+[Speaker 0]: So. Wonderful.
+
+00:25:45.260 --> 00:25:45.660
+[Speaker 3]: behind me. Yeah, just wanted to say hi,
+
+00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:51.400
+meet you in person. But yeah.
+
+00:25:54.340 --> 00:25:54.840
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, excellent. I appreciate it a lot and we
+
+00:25:55.080 --> 00:25:55.580
+generate
+
+00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:00.260
+[Speaker 2]: some interesting questions.
+
+00:26:00.780 --> 00:26:01.280
+Yeah, thank you.
+
+00:26:03.760 --> 00:26:03.960
+[Speaker 4]: You are currently the only person in this
+
+00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:04.460
+conference.
+
+00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:13.980
+[Speaker 1]: I'm going to have a look at the questions
+
+00:26:14.060 --> 00:26:14.560
+here.
+
+00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:29.940
+Let's see. Let's see. So there is,
+
+00:26:32.900 --> 00:26:33.260
+okay. There's a question here.
+
+00:26:34.540 --> 00:26:34.680
+I like what you said about balancing the
+
+00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:36.380
+concern for software freedom with the worry
+
+00:26:38.360 --> 00:26:38.560
+that this might alienate the package user.
+
+00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:40.120
+I wonder if you have advice for other
+
+00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:41.820
+maintainers how to communicate this sort of
+
+00:26:43.660 --> 00:26:44.120
+thing diplomatically? Yes,
+
+00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:46.160
+when you have to deny implementing a feature
+
+00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:48.980
+for a freedom reason. This in fact happens
+
+00:26:56.140 --> 00:26:56.320
+all the time. A recent example of this was a
+
+00:26:58.380 --> 00:26:58.580
+YouTube download, right,
+
+00:26:59.540 --> 00:27:00.040
+the YouTube download feature.
+
+00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:04.540
+At the time, okay, so stepping back,
+
+00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:07.940
+the request was to have a YouTube download
+
+00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:12.440
+feature integrated strongly into eMMS so that
+
+00:27:16.260 --> 00:27:16.640
+you put in a YouTube URL and you can download
+
+00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:18.140
+the video and play it.
+
+00:27:22.080 --> 00:27:22.280
+And the question isn't really whether you can
+
+00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:25.120
+chain YouTube Downloader or 1 of those things
+
+00:27:26.600 --> 00:27:27.100
+into your EMMS configuration.
+
+00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:28.520
+You can do whatever you want.
+
+00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:31.340
+But the question is, does EMMS actually
+
+00:27:33.340 --> 00:27:33.740
+integrate with it really,
+
+00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:36.040
+really strongly to the extent where it tells
+
+00:27:37.800 --> 00:27:38.140
+you oh you don't need to download install
+
+00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:40.820
+please go ahead and install that or whatever
+
+00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:44.180
+and at the time we checked it we found out
+
+00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:46.120
+that you know the version that we were
+
+00:27:49.280 --> 00:27:49.780
+looking at of the YouTube download or YTDLP
+
+00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:52.220
+or whatever it was called,
+
+00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:56.580
+actually downloaded a good amount of
+
+00:27:59.200 --> 00:27:59.540
+proprietary JavaScript onto your machine and
+
+00:28:02.300 --> 00:28:02.480
+ran it, just as if you were going on to the
+
+00:28:06.560 --> 00:28:06.880
+YouTube page, which is not for me to tell
+
+00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:10.480
+people not to do if they want to do that,
+
+00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:16.460
+but it's absolutely for me not to cause to
+
+00:28:18.540 --> 00:28:19.040
+happen on the user's machine without them.
+
+00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:21.660
+1 of the last thing that I want to do in the
+
+00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.180
+world is have a user inside Emacs press a
+
+00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:30.160
+button and have proprietary software get
+
+00:28:32.300 --> 00:28:32.540
+downloaded behind their back and run on their
+
+00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:38.420
+machine that would be disastrous so we had to
+
+00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:41.600
+say no we had to say that's I'm sorry that's
+
+00:28:47.060 --> 00:28:47.380
+beyond the pale and in fact in doing so some
+
+00:28:51.100 --> 00:28:51.420
+people who were using this system said,
+
+00:28:53.900 --> 00:28:54.400
+actually I had no idea it was doing this
+
+00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:57.040
+behind my back. I thought it was just magic.
+
+00:28:58.860 --> 00:28:59.360
+I thought it was a YouTube video without any
+
+00:29:01.580 --> 00:29:01.780
+freedom issues. I'm going to look into it or
+
+00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:03.620
+I'm going to stop using it.
+
+00:29:11.180 --> 00:29:11.680
+So my advice would be Stand firm and just be
+
+00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.380
+Not not preachy. Don't tell people what they
+
+00:29:19.580 --> 00:29:19.960
+need to do be very clear about what you stand
+
+00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:22.400
+for and what the project stands for,
+
+00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:28.940
+and so they very clearly know where you
+
+00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:30.960
+stand. And I think that people actually
+
+00:29:36.540 --> 00:29:37.040
+appreciate that more than a political answer,
+
+00:29:43.540 --> 00:29:44.040
+right? That has been my experience.
+
+00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:50.000
+Now, excuse me, taking into account that 1 or
+
+00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:52.700
+2 people will tell you,
+
+00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.440
+this is terrible. I'm leaving.
+
+00:30:00.550 --> 00:30:00.625
+[Speaker 2]: If you do this,
+
+00:30:01.460 --> 00:30:01.620
+[Speaker 1]: This is useless. you're free software or
+
+00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:03.900
+whatever, and just leave.
+
+00:30:05.860 --> 00:30:06.360
+But some people are ornery.
+
+00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:09.620
+That's not necessarily something bad that you
+
+00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:12.180
+did. But that has happened.
+
+00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:14.700
+There are multiple stories.
+
+00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:17.080
+Because the MMS is so old,
+
+00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580
+there are multiple points in which non-free
+
+00:30:23.940 --> 00:30:24.140
+software intersected with the EMS because of
+
+00:30:28.580 --> 00:30:28.820
+multimedia and we had to go the other
+
+00:30:33.300 --> 00:30:33.800
+direction and so far it has served EMS well
+
+00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:38.740
+like the project has died as a result.
+
+00:30:39.800 --> 00:30:40.200
+Of course, can't prove a negative,
+
+00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:42.540
+don't know where we would be if we had taken,
+
+00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:44.860
+gone down that route. I'm pretty sure we
+
+00:30:46.100 --> 00:30:46.600
+would need a new ELPA,
+
+00:30:50.860 --> 00:30:51.360
+and I think being so clearly integrated with
+
+00:30:55.040 --> 00:30:55.540
+emacs is a huge benefit to eMMS because it's
+
+00:30:57.660 --> 00:30:58.160
+it allows people to install it very easily.
+
+00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:09.020
+And those are all the questions that I can
+
+00:31:09.020 --> 00:31:09.520
+see.
+
+00:31:15.060 --> 00:31:15.560
+[Speaker 2]: You
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-gc--emacsgcstats-does-garbage-collection-actually-slow-down-emacs--ihor-radchenko--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-gc--emacsgcstats-does-garbage-collection-actually-slow-down-emacs--ihor-radchenko--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..71a15554
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-gc--emacsgcstats-does-garbage-collection-actually-slow-down-emacs--ihor-radchenko--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1049 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:01.620 --> 00:00:02.120
+[Speaker 0]: And then, hi everyone.
+
+00:00:03.760 --> 00:00:04.150
+Thank you for your nice talk,
+
+00:00:05.900 --> 00:00:06.400
+I can say it's the Emacs GC.
+
+00:00:09.280 --> 00:00:09.519
+We have some questions on the pad and maybe
+
+00:00:11.580 --> 00:00:11.820
+before I would like to ask you something to
+
+00:00:12.780 --> 00:00:13.280
+the last 1 you have said,
+
+00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:15.700
+concerning changing the GC strategy,
+
+00:00:18.500 --> 00:00:18.840
+that it's unlikely that it will be happening
+
+00:00:20.380 --> 00:00:20.740
+in the next time. Yeah.
+
+00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:22.940
+Is there any discussion going on or why does
+
+00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:24.820
+the case it's not changing the strategy?
+
+00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:27.140
+[Speaker 1]: It's mostly because it's difficult.
+
+00:00:29.439 --> 00:00:29.860
+I think, yesterday you heard from,
+
+00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:33.900
+1 of the dev talks that like there was 1
+
+00:00:34.980 --> 00:00:35.220
+small, short comment that,
+
+00:00:36.780 --> 00:00:37.280
+oh yeah, it would be nice to change this
+
+00:00:39.059 --> 00:00:39.559
+algorithm but it's hard.
+
+00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:40.840
+[Speaker 0]: So I
+
+00:00:43.260 --> 00:00:43.700
+[Speaker 1]: mean it's hard not because the algorithm is
+
+00:00:45.400 --> 00:00:45.720
+that hard but because it's a very low level
+
+00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:48.500
+code and it must be like very carefully
+
+00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:50.460
+weighted. So that can be,
+
+00:00:53.239 --> 00:00:53.640
+it needs to be made sure that the carousel
+
+00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:55.780
+will work. It's all bugs.
+
+00:00:57.440 --> 00:00:57.600
+If you have bugs and you can see that,
+
+00:00:58.660 --> 00:00:59.160
+so it's nothing to work anymore.
+
+00:01:00.720 --> 00:01:01.200
+[Speaker 0]: So We have a lot of RAM usage.
+
+00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:02.740
+Yeah. Maybe sometime.
+
+00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:06.500
+[Speaker 1]: There was like years ago,
+
+00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:10.140
+there was a branch on generational DC,
+
+00:01:11.100 --> 00:01:11.600
+if I remember correctly,
+
+00:01:13.380 --> 00:01:13.880
+but they didn't go anywhere,
+
+00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:15.260
+unfortunately.
+
+00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:19.240
+[Speaker 0]: That's a pity. But let's come to the
+
+00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:22.000
+questions on the pad. So the first 1 is,
+
+00:01:24.340 --> 00:01:24.840
+are the GC duration statistics correlated
+
+00:01:27.340 --> 00:01:27.660
+with users? I mean, does the same user
+
+00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:29.940
+experience GC of various durations?
+
+00:01:32.900 --> 00:01:33.400
+Or Do some users experience GC of a greater
+
+00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:36.960
+0.26 exclusively, while others never
+
+00:01:40.440 --> 00:01:40.940
+experience them? So is it correlated to user
+
+00:01:43.780 --> 00:01:44.280
+behavior? I guess you said it in your talk.
+
+00:01:46.160 --> 00:01:46.660
+[Speaker 1]: Well, If you talk formally,
+
+00:01:49.340 --> 00:01:49.540
+then almost every user has like 1 or 2
+
+00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:52.000
+occasions when GC takes more than 0.2
+
+00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:53.540
+seconds, but it's like,
+
+00:01:56.720 --> 00:01:57.040
+maybe something else is using CPU and that's
+
+00:02:00.720 --> 00:02:00.920
+why, but in practice, there are users who
+
+00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:04.540
+don't have problem. Half of them that that's
+
+00:02:05.800 --> 00:02:06.300
+who that's what I looked from statistics.
+
+00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:10.440
+And dry users who have like really big
+
+00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:13.020
+problems, like 1 second GC time.
+
+00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:17.520
+[Speaker 0]: This is dependent on you make some comments
+
+00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:20.460
+on us in the talk, but could you like extract
+
+00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:23.200
+on if it's a package, that's a problem or we
+
+00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:25.280
+as a user behavior are there.
+
+00:02:30.720 --> 00:02:31.220
+[Speaker 1]: Usually it's something that is,
+
+00:02:33.760 --> 00:02:33.960
+okay. I'm sharing my screen now,
+
+00:02:37.580 --> 00:02:38.080
+[Speaker 0]: It's coming on, give it like 2 to 3 seconds.
+
+00:02:41.480 --> 00:02:41.980
+[Speaker 1]: right? Yeah. So I can just click through
+
+00:02:42.940 --> 00:02:43.440
+different user statistics.
+
+00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:49.080
+So like you can see this duration for each
+
+00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:50.460
+individual user basically.
+
+00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:54.740
+So you can see like here for example it's
+
+00:02:56.320 --> 00:02:56.820
+like averages around 0.25
+
+00:03:00.040 --> 00:03:00.420
+seconds which is noticeable and here is like
+
+00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:03.960
+0.1 like someone is all over the place,
+
+00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:10.060
+probably some. Then like,
+
+00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:12.020
+what else can we see here?
+
+00:03:15.140 --> 00:03:15.640
+Yeah, some users like have sub 0.1,
+
+00:03:23.320 --> 00:03:23.560
+no problem at all. And I have seen some that
+
+00:03:30.180 --> 00:03:30.240
+really, really bad. I mean,
+
+00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:32.240
+[Speaker 0]: if it's noticeable, it's all bad.
+
+00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:37.460
+[Speaker 1]: So yeah. For example, here it's like 0.8
+
+00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:42.040
+seconds, 0.5 seconds. I don't know how that
+
+00:03:48.600 --> 00:03:49.100
+guy uses ZMax. Yeah. you can see it varies.
+
+00:03:51.160 --> 00:03:51.660
+[Speaker 0]: So It varies quite a lot.
+
+00:03:52.760 --> 00:03:53.000
+[Speaker 1]: What it depends on, like,
+
+00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:54.620
+usually the number of packages,
+
+00:03:58.440 --> 00:03:58.620
+like all kinds of timers going on under the
+
+00:04:01.720 --> 00:04:02.220
+hood. I think I tried to list...
+
+00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:12.800
+I'll go through this. I briefly outlined some
+
+00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:15.940
+important parts. Here,
+
+00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:18.980
+when you have something like an org agenda,
+
+00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:21.180
+it will most likely trigger a lot of GCs.
+
+00:04:23.900 --> 00:04:24.400
+When you have a lot of timers,
+
+00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:27.980
+when you have something calculated on
+
+00:04:29.700 --> 00:04:30.200
+modline, it will be frequently triggered.
+
+00:04:30.900 --> 00:04:31.240
+[Speaker 0]: Well,
+
+00:04:34.080 --> 00:04:34.260
+[Speaker 1]: yeah. When you have so many packages and
+
+00:04:35.760 --> 00:04:36.260
+these packages are using a lot of memory.
+
+00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:41.540
+Like I remember I was surprised by this,
+
+00:04:44.640 --> 00:04:45.020
+package, home org that was,
+
+00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:47.060
+caching all the results.
+
+00:04:48.960 --> 00:04:49.280
+And for large org files,
+
+00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:51.720
+it was like several hundred megabytes of
+
+00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:55.660
+data. Well, it just becomes slower.
+
+00:04:55.900 --> 00:04:56.280
+Yeah.
+
+00:05:00.020 --> 00:05:00.340
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah. Maybe, maybe a short side note.
+
+00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:02.760
+Someone asks, what software you're using for
+
+00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:03.980
+flipping through the PNGs.
+
+00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:07.160
+Maybe you could shortly throws it in.
+
+00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:09.280
+[Speaker 1]: What do you mean? Here,
+
+00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:11.500
+[Speaker 0]: I guess it was just simply,
+
+00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:13.980
+[Speaker 1]: this, It's it's far. Yeah.
+
+00:05:16.660 --> 00:05:17.160
+So
+
+00:05:23.900 --> 00:05:24.400
+[Speaker 0]: yeah. So, question 1 and 2 answered.
+
+00:05:35.740 --> 00:05:36.040
+To 1 statement you have made,
+
+00:05:37.500 --> 00:05:38.000
+there was a question concerning the timings.
+
+00:05:41.180 --> 00:05:41.680
+So you said, okay, everything above 0.1
+
+00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:46.120
+second is fine. Maybe There's a short story
+
+00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:48.980
+of someone who asked a question.
+
+00:05:50.380 --> 00:05:50.800
+[Speaker 1]: I see the question is about scrolling,
+
+00:05:51.820 --> 00:05:52.320
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, exactly.
+
+00:05:55.580 --> 00:05:55.760
+[Speaker 1]: right? Again, there's not much you can do in
+
+00:05:58.620 --> 00:05:58.860
+terms of trying to adjust the GC time.
+
+00:06:02.320 --> 00:06:02.820
+I mean, if you make GCs less frequent,
+
+00:06:07.540 --> 00:06:08.000
+you increase the individual GC time.
+
+00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:09.280
+If you make them more frequent,
+
+00:06:11.280 --> 00:06:11.520
+you decrease the individual GC time,
+
+00:06:12.400 --> 00:06:12.740
+but then they are more frequent.
+
+00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:16.200
+So what is the point? I think the way to go
+
+00:06:19.940 --> 00:06:20.080
+here is you can rise to see the short for the
+
+00:06:20.740 --> 00:06:21.240
+duration of scrolling,
+
+00:06:22.500 --> 00:06:22.860
+like just for a comment.
+
+00:06:26.320 --> 00:06:26.740
+I think it's a recommendation from Emacs
+
+00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:31.660
+devs. So like You do something along the
+
+00:06:31.660 --> 00:06:32.160
+lines.
+
+00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:53.800
+Yeah, I'm surely doing something on my screen
+
+00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:56.180
+and I forgot that I'm not sharing anything.
+
+00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:57.180
+[Speaker 0]: Exactly.
+
+00:07:00.700 --> 00:07:01.200
+[Speaker 1]: Simply something like this.
+
+00:07:08.140 --> 00:07:08.460
+So, basically, if you have some command that
+
+00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:11.180
+is very important that it should run very
+
+00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:14.120
+quickly. You temporary increase that
+
+00:07:15.740 --> 00:07:16.240
+threshold, you run that comment,
+
+00:07:19.940 --> 00:07:20.140
+then that's all. That's probably the best.
+
+00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:22.000
+So basically, the best you can do is to delay
+
+00:07:23.760 --> 00:07:24.260
+it after the command.
+
+00:07:27.500 --> 00:07:27.700
+[Speaker 0]: So afterwards, it takes a lot of time to do
+
+00:07:36.140 --> 00:07:36.500
+its stuff. OK. The third 1 has been already
+
+00:07:40.520 --> 00:07:40.780
+answered, but I just want to get your
+
+00:07:42.780 --> 00:07:43.280
+information from it. Opinions on the GCMH
+
+00:07:43.940 --> 00:07:44.440
+mode.
+
+00:07:48.280 --> 00:07:48.640
+[Speaker 1]: Okay. Yeah, I see that problem,
+
+00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:50.420
+but that's more like a technical problem.
+
+00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:52.860
+But there's another problem there.
+
+00:07:57.340 --> 00:07:57.840
+Yeah, I prepared a small snippet here.
+
+00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:02.660
+So if you look at the GCMH mode,
+
+00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:06.040
+it has this concept of low threshold and high
+
+00:08:08.200 --> 00:08:08.560
+threshold and most of the time it's running
+
+00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:14.620
+high threshold and then when Emacs is idle,
+
+00:08:17.320 --> 00:08:17.480
+it falls back to lower threshold and then it
+
+00:08:19.400 --> 00:08:19.900
+does the GC while Emacs is not used.
+
+00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:22.360
+That's a good idea, of course.
+
+00:08:24.380 --> 00:08:24.880
+That's the core idea of GCMH mode.
+
+00:08:30.520 --> 00:08:30.720
+Unfortunately, the most annoying GC is when
+
+00:08:31.760 --> 00:08:32.260
+you're actively using max.
+
+00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:37.419
+And then you have this huge value of GC
+
+00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:39.299
+counter show and look at the doc stream.
+
+00:08:41.760 --> 00:08:42.080
+This would be sector value that makes GC
+
+00:08:43.980 --> 00:08:44.480
+unlikely but does not cost OSP Asian.
+
+00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:46.880
+So yeah, no wonder like if you don't do GC,
+
+00:08:49.640 --> 00:08:50.140
+your arm usage will skyrocket.
+
+00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:54.860
+So they don't, they cannot put it too much,
+
+00:08:57.720 --> 00:08:58.220
+but this is like already like,
+
+00:08:59.220 --> 00:08:59.720
+how much was it?
+
+00:09:10.800 --> 00:09:10.860
+1 gigabyte, that's the default.
+
+00:09:15.220 --> 00:09:15.720
+And the problem is when you have 1 gigabyte
+
+00:09:18.680 --> 00:09:19.000
+to garbage collect, it causes really long GC
+
+00:09:22.040 --> 00:09:22.480
+time. So in GC image mode,
+
+00:09:23.560 --> 00:09:24.060
+when you're actually using Emacs,
+
+00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:29.360
+really heavily, the GCs become terrible,
+
+00:09:34.640 --> 00:09:34.860
+terribly slow. So it may help in case you
+
+00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:37.540
+don't have too much problems with GC,
+
+00:09:39.280 --> 00:09:39.720
+but I will say that in such situation,
+
+00:09:41.920 --> 00:09:42.420
+you can simply increase GC cost percentage,
+
+00:09:44.540 --> 00:09:45.040
+as I recommend, and it should do it.
+
+00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:48.640
+But in case of really big problems with
+
+00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:50.540
+garbage collection, no,
+
+00:09:51.740 --> 00:09:52.240
+I don't think that will help much.
+
+00:09:54.800 --> 00:09:54.960
+I used it myself and it didn't help much for
+
+00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:55.700
+my stuff.
+
+00:09:59.680 --> 00:10:00.180
+[Speaker 0]: All right. The next question is concerning
+
+00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:04.820
+freeing up memory. Is there some way to free
+
+00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:07.420
+up memory such as via unload feature on
+
+00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:10.120
+Emacs? Often I only need a package loaded for
+
+00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:12.400
+a single task or short period by the
+
+00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:13.820
+persistent memory afterwards.
+
+00:10:19.780 --> 00:10:19.940
+[Speaker 1]: So the packages are usually not that much of
+
+00:10:22.060 --> 00:10:22.560
+a problem. I mean, the libraries,
+
+00:10:25.280 --> 00:10:25.780
+the problem is some extra,
+
+00:10:30.060 --> 00:10:30.340
+like some variable contents or some
+
+00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:32.300
+histories, some caches.
+
+00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:35.780
+That's what's eating most of the memory.
+
+00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:40.740
+There is a package called memory usage and
+
+00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:45.940
+built in MX memory report.
+
+00:10:50.900 --> 00:10:51.100
+They allow to see which variables take a lot
+
+00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:56.500
+of memory. And that way you can try to see
+
+00:10:58.520 --> 00:10:59.020
+which packages are actually problematic.
+
+00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:03.840
+So for example, I recall,
+
+00:11:05.640 --> 00:11:06.140
+and that was not exactly,
+
+00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:09.880
+I remember there was a package that was
+
+00:11:11.040 --> 00:11:11.260
+literally in command line,
+
+00:11:14.020 --> 00:11:14.240
+like prompt history. I think it was in
+
+00:11:17.540 --> 00:11:18.040
+command. And when you do like,
+
+00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:20.940
+when you save every message in your chart
+
+00:11:25.280 --> 00:11:25.780
+into prompt history, that can grow very fast
+
+00:11:29.220 --> 00:11:29.600
+and can go to several hundred megabytes just
+
+00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:32.020
+in that history. And that can cause major
+
+00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:38.360
+problems. So, yes, profiling the largest
+
+00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:41.600
+variables with the largest buffers that might
+
+00:11:42.660 --> 00:11:42.900
+give some clues. Again,
+
+00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:44.240
+there is no silver bullet.
+
+00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:49.320
+[Speaker 0]: Right. I think the last question on the
+
+00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:51.500
+patterns. At first, very nice presentation.
+
+00:11:51.620 --> 00:11:51.780
+[Speaker 1]: I can
+
+00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:54.480
+[Speaker 0]: also only agree with that.
+
+00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:56.640
+I just experienced with a threshold and
+
+00:11:58.200 --> 00:11:58.700
+lowered my GCE lapse from 1.1
+
+00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:01.940
+to 0.06 seconds during startup.
+
+00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:04.100
+Interestingly, going to 10 megabytes
+
+00:12:06.100 --> 00:12:06.340
+increased the time. 4 megabytes was a sweet
+
+00:12:07.800 --> 00:12:08.300
+spot for my system. What is the recommended
+
+00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:11.260
+way to lower the value back to the default
+
+00:12:12.340 --> 00:12:12.840
+value after startup is completed?
+
+00:12:16.160 --> 00:12:16.660
+[Speaker 1]: I think you just use after init hook.
+
+00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:24.440
+[Speaker 0]: This was a relatively fast answer.
+
+00:12:29.180 --> 00:12:29.480
+[Speaker 1]: So basically for example Doom does this,
+
+00:12:31.940 --> 00:12:32.220
+it temporary writes a gcconcert hold during
+
+00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:37.760
+startup and yeah after init hook the code is
+
+00:12:39.880 --> 00:12:40.380
+like it's 1 of the commonly suggested
+
+00:12:43.940 --> 00:12:44.440
+approaches and is I believe it's the right 1.
+
+00:12:49.180 --> 00:12:49.680
+[Speaker 0]: Right. To have joined us 1 was a microphone.
+
+00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:52.360
+So Peter, do you have any questions that you
+
+00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:55.640
+want to question? And maybe as a side note,
+
+00:12:57.380 --> 00:12:57.740
+we only have 4 minutes left and afterwards
+
+00:12:59.240 --> 00:12:59.480
+this happy weekend will still be open,
+
+00:13:01.400 --> 00:13:01.900
+but we will switch back to the talks.
+
+00:13:05.380 --> 00:13:05.820
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, no more questions on garbage
+
+00:13:07.640 --> 00:13:08.140
+collection, but I just wanted to thank Ihor
+
+00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:10.940
+for his engagement in the community.
+
+00:13:15.300 --> 00:13:15.480
+And especially with, I'm a co-maintainer on
+
+00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:18.100
+orgnotor and he's helped us a lot with
+
+00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:21.820
+getting us up to date with newer versions of
+
+00:13:22.680 --> 00:13:22.960
+org and stuff like that.
+
+00:13:24.680 --> 00:13:25.140
+So just wanted to thank you in person.
+
+00:13:25.140 --> 00:13:25.640
+[Speaker 1]: Right.
+
+00:13:33.540 --> 00:13:33.800
+[Speaker 0]: Maybe 1 question for me,
+
+00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:35.760
+you had some bit talked about memory
+
+00:13:40.640 --> 00:13:40.800
+fragmentation. So is there any way to or is
+
+00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:42.580
+it fixed by Emacs itself?
+
+00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:43.940
+So you have like
+
+00:13:46.520 --> 00:13:46.980
+[Speaker 1]: a chunk of memory fragmentation is basically
+
+00:13:51.420 --> 00:13:51.600
+your OS. Yeah, Emacs releases the memory and
+
+00:13:55.020 --> 00:13:55.200
+then OS can rearrange it depending on the
+
+00:13:58.320 --> 00:13:58.820
+implementation of its memory manager.
+
+00:14:01.520 --> 00:14:01.720
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, so the GC just releases it really and
+
+00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:04.900
+not so it could be that a mix is like
+
+00:14:07.420 --> 00:14:07.840
+[Speaker 1]: doing it. You have like memory pages,
+
+00:14:09.560 --> 00:14:09.760
+right? Yeah. And you see,
+
+00:14:12.140 --> 00:14:12.600
+can release a part of this page just like
+
+00:14:14.760 --> 00:14:15.060
+here and there. And depending on the exact
+
+00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:18.220
+situation is your arm at each moment of time,
+
+00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:20.640
+or as may or may not be able to arrange
+
+00:14:25.160 --> 00:14:25.640
+[Speaker 0]: so
+
+00:14:27.620 --> 00:14:27.940
+[Speaker 1]: things. So, how the exact the data you cannot
+
+00:14:30.160 --> 00:14:30.320
+really predict it. It really varies like you
+
+00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:31.480
+use Windows, you use Linux,
+
+00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:33.740
+you use like malloc, something else,
+
+00:14:36.260 --> 00:14:36.600
+but it has nothing to do with Emacs.
+
+00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:38.540
+It's just something you have to deal with.
+
+00:14:41.780 --> 00:14:41.940
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, but my question was in the way that we
+
+00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:43.860
+are giving the memory back to the operating
+
+00:14:46.020 --> 00:14:46.440
+system, not just holding it as used and then
+
+00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:50.140
+to our own memory, like stuff as Emacs that
+
+00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:52.120
+we do not need to interact with the operating
+
+00:14:56.040 --> 00:14:56.540
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. Emacs does not really hold anything.
+
+00:14:59.160 --> 00:14:59.580
+[Speaker 0]: system. That was the question.
+
+00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:02.220
+[Speaker 1]: Okay. I was really hoping it does,
+
+00:15:02.760 --> 00:15:03.260
+but yeah, unfortunately,
+
+00:15:05.640 --> 00:15:06.140
+because nothing much can be done on Emacs.
+
+00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:08.940
+[Speaker 0]: Okay. it's not Probably a lot faster if it's
+
+00:15:10.580 --> 00:15:10.800
+just holding it and when it needs more,
+
+00:15:12.380 --> 00:15:12.880
+then just get more from the OS.
+
+00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:14.620
+[Speaker 1]: There are certain caveats,
+
+00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.220
+for example, there's something called image
+
+00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:20.740
+cache. And because Emacs stores images in
+
+00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:23.800
+uncompressed format, it can occupy quite a
+
+00:15:25.020 --> 00:15:25.320
+lot of memory. In particular,
+
+00:15:26.520 --> 00:15:27.020
+when you will like view PDFs,
+
+00:15:30.140 --> 00:15:30.640
+like you open 10, like 20 PDFs in 1 session,
+
+00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:33.820
+you may have like some image cache blowing
+
+00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:37.220
+up, But that's not common for people.
+
+00:15:41.420 --> 00:15:41.920
+[Speaker 0]: So, guess we are on our time exactly.
+
+00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:44.080
+So in the next
+
+00:15:46.680 --> 00:15:47.180
+[Speaker 1]: I think I was not exactly accurate.
+
+00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:49.640
+This 1 command, which is,
+
+00:15:53.500 --> 00:15:54.000
+I think, Nemax 30, is called a malloc trim.
+
+00:15:57.520 --> 00:15:58.020
+A max malloc trim. It's interactive.
+
+00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:04.580
+So that can help to release some memory.
+
+00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:08.700
+I think the way it works is like forces OS to
+
+00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:12.540
+make use of the released memory.
+
+00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:15.460
+[Speaker 0]: Okay. That would be like,
+
+00:16:18.420 --> 00:16:18.640
+we are by the way, switch back to the next
+
+00:16:21.420 --> 00:16:21.680
+talk. But
+
+00:16:24.220 --> 00:16:24.400
+[Speaker 1]: so basically what happens here is that OS may
+
+00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:27.720
+not release like, even Emacs says,
+
+00:16:28.740 --> 00:16:29.240
+okay, this memory is free,
+
+00:16:30.060 --> 00:16:30.560
+depending on the implementation,
+
+00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:32.980
+I might think, okay, but I still hold that
+
+00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:35.080
+memory associated with Emacs just in case
+
+00:16:35.800 --> 00:16:36.180
+Emacs needs more memories,
+
+00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:39.180
+and I can immediately put the data there
+
+00:16:41.420 --> 00:16:41.920
+without like more arrangement to allocate
+
+00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:45.980
+more. And this analog stream basically forces
+
+00:16:48.740 --> 00:16:49.240
+the OS to release it, like no matter what.
+
+00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:52.860
+[Speaker 0]: Because most people, when they are using
+
+00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:54.620
+Emacs, I have the feeling they are only using
+
+00:16:56.160 --> 00:16:56.480
+Emacs. So it would be kind of interesting if
+
+00:16:57.880 --> 00:16:58.140
+you just take like, I don't know,
+
+00:17:00.060 --> 00:17:00.560
+2 gigabytes or something of memory and Emacs
+
+00:17:02.900 --> 00:17:03.160
+like does what it wants on that and the OS
+
+00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:04.540
+cannot really take it back.
+
+00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:06.040
+This was my idea when I
+
+00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:08.319
+[Speaker 1]: was So when you see 2 gigabytes in OS,
+
+00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:10.859
+it doesn't mean that OS cannot take it back.
+
+00:17:13.859 --> 00:17:14.359
+It may still like allocate certain portion,
+
+00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:16.140
+even technically free,
+
+00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:21.319
+but just for future. So this is where Malloc
+
+00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:22.579
+Dream works. It's like,
+
+00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:25.540
+it says, yes, OS, I really not going to hold
+
+00:17:26.500 --> 00:17:27.000
+this for this free memory.
+
+00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:31.860
+For sure. If you try this MX Malloc Gene,
+
+00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:34.140
+you will see like a few times to hundreds of
+
+00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:35.700
+megabytes of read immediately.
+
+00:17:38.560 --> 00:17:39.060
+[Speaker 0]: Have a look when I have the time.
+
+00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:41.600
+[Speaker 1]: I
+
+00:17:43.260 --> 00:17:43.680
+[Speaker 0]: guess if nobody has any questions,
+
+00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:46.160
+I guess on the pad, there was Nothing else.
+
+00:17:47.900 --> 00:17:48.340
+I guess we can just close it.
+
+00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:49.600
+Thanks for the discussion.
+
+00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:51.140
+Thanks for answering the questions.
+
+00:17:56.020 --> 00:17:56.520
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you for the great conference.
+
+00:17:59.340 --> 00:17:59.840
+And yeah, for your volunteer work.
+
+00:18:02.230 --> 00:18:02.241
+And yeah, for quietly panicking in the
+
+00:18:02.262 --> 00:18:02.273
+background, right? Yeah,
+
+00:18:02.337 --> 00:18:02.348
+I mean... You have to be quiet,
+
+00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:03.060
+you're panicking in the background.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-hyperdrive--hyperdriveel-peertopeer-filesystem-in-emacs--joseph-turner--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-hyperdrive--hyperdriveel-peertopeer-filesystem-in-emacs--joseph-turner--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2f7b316a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-hyperdrive--hyperdriveel-peertopeer-filesystem-in-emacs--joseph-turner--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1595 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:12.660 --> 00:00:13.160
+[Speaker 0]: I guess we are now live.
+
+00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:15.860
+So Joseph, thanks for being here.
+
+00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:17.460
+Thanks for talking to the hyperdrive.
+
+00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:22.440
+We already had some, or we already have a lot
+
+00:00:24.360 --> 00:00:24.619
+of questions here. And I guess I would start
+
+00:00:26.040 --> 00:00:26.540
+with, let's call it the difficult,
+
+00:00:29.119 --> 00:00:29.439
+the most difficult 1. So when you were
+
+00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:31.320
+developing hyperdrive for your colleague,
+
+00:00:34.760 --> 00:00:34.920
+what do you, or what have you learned the
+
+00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:35.420
+most?
+
+00:00:43.080 --> 00:00:43.320
+[Speaker 1]: I have learned how much faster and more
+
+00:00:46.360 --> 00:00:46.620
+enjoyable the development of this project can
+
+00:00:51.540 --> 00:00:52.040
+be with talented people working by my side,
+
+00:00:55.960 --> 00:00:56.260
+like Jonas and Adam and Prat and Mo,
+
+00:00:58.100 --> 00:00:58.260
+it's been really a pleasure to work with
+
+00:00:58.440 --> 00:00:58.940
+these folks.
+
+00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:05.140
+[Speaker 0]: So you have started at first on your own and
+
+00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:07.760
+then probably pushed it somewhere in open
+
+00:01:10.320 --> 00:01:10.820
+source or how did it develop,
+
+00:01:11.740 --> 00:01:12.240
+your development experience?
+
+00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:16.160
+[Speaker 1]: A few years ago, we started looking into
+
+00:01:21.960 --> 00:01:22.200
+using peer-to-peer technology for sharing all
+
+00:01:25.080 --> 00:01:25.360
+kinds of information. And we came across Move
+
+00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:29.440
+SignWeaver, who was recommended to us by a
+
+00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:32.720
+mutual friend. And we started working with
+
+00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:34.340
+Move, and then about a year ago,
+
+00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:37.560
+we started looking into using Emacs,
+
+00:01:40.020 --> 00:01:40.460
+the peer-to-peer software,
+
+00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:43.780
+so that we could make use of all of the
+
+00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:46.500
+powerful things that Emacs already does with
+
+00:01:47.780 --> 00:01:48.280
+org mode and other packages.
+
+00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:51.760
+And then we started working with Adam and
+
+00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:52.820
+Pratt and Jonas.
+
+00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:54.780
+[Speaker 2]: Yes.
+
+00:01:59.880 --> 00:02:00.380
+[Speaker 0]: So we are skipping to the next question.
+
+00:02:03.700 --> 00:02:04.200
+So to read it out, I use multiple computers
+
+00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:06.480
+and my partner also would like access to my
+
+00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:09.139
+notes. So, 2 questions at first.
+
+00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:12.720
+First 1, how well would this work with using
+
+00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:15.300
+this to edit my Zettelkasten hyperdrive using
+
+00:02:15.660 --> 00:02:16.160
+multiple computers?
+
+00:02:21.260 --> 00:02:21.760
+[Speaker 1]: Hyperdrive is single writer currently.
+
+00:02:24.140 --> 00:02:24.280
+So what that means is that if you have a
+
+00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:25.580
+hyperdrive that you've created,
+
+00:02:28.320 --> 00:02:28.820
+you're the only 1 who can make changes to it.
+
+00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:32.060
+And that's limited right now to editing 1
+
+00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:33.740
+hyperdrive from 1 machine.
+
+00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:38.740
+In theory, you could use the same private key
+
+00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:40.680
+and write to it from multiple machines,
+
+00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:44.020
+but you would have to make sure that you sync
+
+00:02:46.300 --> 00:02:46.520
+it on both machines and didn't make
+
+00:02:48.160 --> 00:02:48.480
+concurrent writes because then you would fork
+
+00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:50.340
+the history of your hyperdrive,
+
+00:02:51.020 --> 00:02:51.520
+and that would be bad.
+
+00:02:57.740 --> 00:02:57.980
+But we've spent a lot of time making links to
+
+00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:00.280
+hyperdrives work well,
+
+00:03:02.160 --> 00:03:02.360
+relative links within hyperdrives to other
+
+00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:03.840
+files inside of your drive.
+
+00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:06.020
+So you should be able to,
+
+00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:10.520
+with some exceptions, just take your personal
+
+00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:13.780
+information management set of org files or
+
+00:03:14.760 --> 00:03:15.260
+whatever it is that you have,
+
+00:03:18.160 --> 00:03:18.260
+and upload them into a hyperdrive if all of
+
+00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:23.100
+that is publicly available or would be good
+
+00:03:27.260 --> 00:03:27.400
+to share publicly. And you can make that
+
+00:03:28.940 --> 00:03:29.440
+available for other people to link to.
+
+00:03:30.640 --> 00:03:30.840
+So you can have multiple different
+
+00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:32.540
+hyperdrives that link to 1 another.
+
+00:03:35.600 --> 00:03:36.100
+[Speaker 0]: So it's like a huge network of hyperdrives
+
+00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:38.500
+connected to each other in some way.
+
+00:03:39.140 --> 00:03:39.640
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah.
+
+00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:41.620
+[Speaker 0]: So that's kind of neat and kind of cool.
+
+00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:44.480
+There was a follow-up question or the second
+
+00:03:46.780 --> 00:03:47.100
+part of the question. Okay,
+
+00:03:48.860 --> 00:03:49.200
+then using the same hyperdrive is probably
+
+00:03:51.820 --> 00:03:52.060
+not possible, but interlinking would be the
+
+00:03:57.500 --> 00:03:57.840
+best way to do it. There was a question
+
+00:03:59.540 --> 00:03:59.820
+concerning how they should install it.
+
+00:04:01.160 --> 00:04:01.440
+So What would be a good way of getting
+
+00:04:03.580 --> 00:04:04.080
+hyperdrives if you do not want to install npm
+
+00:04:06.460 --> 00:04:06.740
+and have a binary? Could you compile it with
+
+00:04:08.300 --> 00:04:08.800
+denner or rusk or zig or go?
+
+00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:11.120
+CLI alternative tool, I would prefer to
+
+00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:12.340
+download a single binary.
+
+00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:17.720
+[Speaker 1]: There's something that Jonas was playing
+
+00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:20.800
+around with using Geeks to install Hyper
+
+00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:23.360
+Gateway. So the way that HyperDrive.el,
+
+00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:27.380
+the Emacs package, works right now is similar
+
+00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:30.720
+to the way that the transmission Emacs client
+
+00:04:34.200 --> 00:04:34.640
+for BitTorrent works, where you have a client
+
+00:04:37.320 --> 00:04:37.480
+in Emacs that connects to a daemon that is a
+
+00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:39.280
+separate process that's running on your
+
+00:04:41.820 --> 00:04:42.320
+machine, the transmission daemon.
+
+00:04:43.500 --> 00:04:44.000
+But in this case, we have HyperGateway,
+
+00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:46.560
+which is running as a daemon on your machine.
+
+00:04:48.180 --> 00:04:48.680
+And then hyperdrive.el
+
+00:04:51.020 --> 00:04:51.520
+connects to that daemon and sends requests,
+
+00:04:53.520 --> 00:04:53.620
+and all of the hyperdrive stuff under the
+
+00:04:55.880 --> 00:04:56.380
+hood happens with her gateway.
+
+00:04:57.940 --> 00:04:58.440
+But so that package can,
+
+00:05:00.280 --> 00:05:00.460
+or hypergateway, the program can be
+
+00:05:02.900 --> 00:05:03.080
+installed, The easiest way is to just
+
+00:05:04.400 --> 00:05:04.900
+download it from the GitHub releases.
+
+00:05:07.060 --> 00:05:07.560
+You could also use NPM to install it.
+
+00:05:09.520 --> 00:05:09.680
+And then the third option that we've been
+
+00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:13.040
+playing around with is Jonas was writing a
+
+00:05:14.540 --> 00:05:15.040
+little script to install it using Geeks,
+
+00:05:18.340 --> 00:05:18.840
+since Geeks now comes with Node 18.
+
+00:05:20.740 --> 00:05:20.940
+And so you should be able to install it using
+
+00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:21.440
+Geeks.
+
+00:05:25.320 --> 00:05:25.520
+[Speaker 0]: Right, thank you. We have 2 people here
+
+00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:26.600
+joined with microphone.
+
+00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:30.560
+Do we have now any question to Joseph or just
+
+00:05:32.060 --> 00:05:32.560
+here for chilling out.
+
+00:05:41.820 --> 00:05:42.260
+I guess it's a no. Plasma,
+
+00:05:42.260 --> 00:05:42.760
+yeah.
+
+00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:46.260
+[Speaker 3]: What about using, having some of the
+
+00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:48.460
+information being private in the hyperdrives.
+
+00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:54.400
+[Speaker 1]: That's not what we have been focusing on at
+
+00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:55.640
+this point. At this point,
+
+00:05:57.340 --> 00:05:57.660
+what we've been working on is mainly using
+
+00:06:02.180 --> 00:06:02.680
+hyperdrives for a public forum type tool.
+
+00:06:06.420 --> 00:06:06.560
+But you could encrypt those files if you
+
+00:06:09.340 --> 00:06:09.840
+wanted to. You can also just,
+
+00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:14.160
+a poor man's security would just be to share
+
+00:06:16.660 --> 00:06:16.960
+your HyperDrive link only with those people
+
+00:06:19.060 --> 00:06:19.560
+that you want to have access to your drive.
+
+00:06:21.820 --> 00:06:22.240
+But the way that it works right now is anyone
+
+00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:24.280
+who has the link to a hyperdrive can access
+
+00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:26.420
+its content. So long as there are peers
+
+00:06:28.740 --> 00:06:28.900
+available on the network who can serve it to
+
+00:06:28.900 --> 00:06:29.400
+you.
+
+00:06:37.440 --> 00:06:37.660
+[Speaker 0]: Any follow up question from your side,
+
+00:06:37.660 --> 00:06:38.160
+Plasma?
+
+00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:47.220
+[Speaker 3]: I had 1, I'll just have to re-remember it.
+
+00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:55.600
+[Speaker 0]: If you remember it, just feel free to
+
+00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:56.500
+interrupt me.
+
+00:06:58.980 --> 00:06:59.220
+[Speaker 3]: What about working? I've looked at this
+
+00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:03.480
+before. What about, if I remember correctly,
+
+00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:05.220
+it doesn't do as well with large files,
+
+00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:09.520
+so if you're going to store 200 gigs of video
+
+00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:12.520
+files, stuff like IPFS works a lot better,
+
+00:07:15.200 --> 00:07:15.480
+or BitTorrent. This is,
+
+00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:17.620
+are you, were you using the,
+
+00:07:21.980 --> 00:07:22.300
+any way of using multiple protocols for stuff
+
+00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:25.800
+like that? Or what were you doing with,
+
+00:07:27.340 --> 00:07:27.480
+or were you just doing the small files with
+
+00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:29.180
+the same protocol? Or
+
+00:07:34.440 --> 00:07:34.920
+[Speaker 1]: I would love to see an IPFS client in Emacs
+
+00:07:37.260 --> 00:07:37.700
+as well that could interface with Kubo or
+
+00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:40.240
+some other IPFS daemon and I think that those
+
+00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:41.620
+could work really well together.
+
+00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:45.860
+We mostly have been playing around with
+
+00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:47.740
+sharing relatively small files,
+
+00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:52.240
+up to hundreds of megabytes or maybe a
+
+00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:55.640
+gigabyte. We haven't played around yet with
+
+00:07:57.380 --> 00:07:57.880
+hyperdrive.el, the Emacs client,
+
+00:07:59.240 --> 00:07:59.740
+testing that with HyperGateway.
+
+00:08:04.020 --> 00:08:04.160
+But there may be other experiments that have
+
+00:08:05.880 --> 00:08:06.380
+been done that show that that works well.
+
+00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:11.320
+The main thing is that IPFS uses content
+
+00:08:14.820 --> 00:08:15.060
+addressability to reduce duplication of the
+
+00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:17.120
+content. Whereas in HyperDrive,
+
+00:08:20.140 --> 00:08:20.320
+if you upload the same file with the same
+
+00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:23.620
+contents twice, now you have double the
+
+00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:25.580
+content being stored in your HyperDrive.
+
+00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:26.540
+It's not deduplicated.
+
+00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:31.300
+You can always clear out part of the history
+
+00:08:36.340 --> 00:08:36.659
+of your hyperdrive But IPFS has really good
+
+00:08:39.140 --> 00:08:39.640
+built-in deduplication whereas hyperdrive
+
+00:08:39.860 --> 00:08:40.360
+does not
+
+00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:44.540
+[Speaker 4]: I have a question.
+
+00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:47.580
+[Speaker 3]: What about like commenting on other like if
+
+00:08:50.140 --> 00:08:50.600
+you have a couple of different Hypercore
+
+00:08:53.900 --> 00:08:54.220
+blogs, what about like commenting between
+
+00:08:56.680 --> 00:08:57.040
+them? Like you have some people who have a
+
+00:08:59.280 --> 00:08:59.640
+commenting form on Reddit for their blog
+
+00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:00.140
+posts.
+
+00:09:04.640 --> 00:09:04.760
+[Speaker 1]: So Move SignWeaver has been doing a lot of
+
+00:09:07.880 --> 00:09:08.380
+work recently with the distributed press API
+
+00:09:12.040 --> 00:09:12.540
+to integrate ActivityPub with these
+
+00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:14.620
+peer-to-peer technologies.
+
+00:09:17.980 --> 00:09:18.240
+Move can give you more information about
+
+00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:22.440
+that. But there is another feature that we'd
+
+00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:23.900
+like to add to hyperdrive.el,
+
+00:09:29.140 --> 00:09:29.640
+which is peer discovery using the swarming
+
+00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:31.100
+feature that HyperCore,
+
+00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:35.100
+HyperSWARM offers, where you'd be able to say
+
+00:09:38.500 --> 00:09:38.660
+that my node, my peer-to-peer node is
+
+00:09:41.640 --> 00:09:41.840
+interested in Emacs and free software as
+
+00:09:43.100 --> 00:09:43.320
+topics. And those would be 2 different
+
+00:09:45.060 --> 00:09:45.300
+topics. I would advertise on the network that
+
+00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:46.740
+I'm interested in those topics.
+
+00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:49.480
+And I would be able to discover other peers
+
+00:09:52.040 --> 00:09:52.200
+on the network who have also advertised that
+
+00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:53.940
+they're interested in those same topics.
+
+00:09:56.040 --> 00:09:56.320
+And then they would tell me,
+
+00:09:59.260 --> 00:09:59.760
+hey, here's the public key of my hyperdrive.
+
+00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:02.320
+Come check it out. I have posted information
+
+00:10:04.300 --> 00:10:04.540
+about those topics. And so in that way,
+
+00:10:06.860 --> 00:10:07.360
+you'd be able to, in a distributed fashion,
+
+00:10:09.660 --> 00:10:09.800
+discover other peers on the network who are
+
+00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:11.600
+interested in topics that you're interested
+
+00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:12.100
+in.
+
+00:10:16.780 --> 00:10:16.960
+[Speaker 3]: Something that would be useful in addition to
+
+00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:20.100
+that idea is like if you had your emacs
+
+00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:25.680
+Zettelkasten Publish like let's say you have
+
+00:10:27.860 --> 00:10:28.140
+some private data You make sure that that's
+
+00:10:29.800 --> 00:10:30.060
+scrubbed out before it goes to your hyper
+
+00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:32.260
+core and then you have another part of it
+
+00:10:35.540 --> 00:10:35.940
+that gets turned into a website for it's also
+
+00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:38.240
+given to other hyper core clients but you'd
+
+00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:40.620
+rather get the emacs users the org documents
+
+00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:44.920
+then you also publish some of them on a
+
+00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:48.840
+website so everybody as much people can get
+
+00:10:53.560 --> 00:10:53.960
+it as possible. And then a way of figuring
+
+00:10:55.640 --> 00:10:56.140
+out who you'd want to do,
+
+00:10:57.780 --> 00:10:58.180
+or if you're an Emacs user,
+
+00:10:59.860 --> 00:11:00.040
+maybe figure out that they're all related to
+
+00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:01.640
+each other, but you want to get the art mode
+
+00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:03.580
+documents because you're using EMAX.
+
+00:11:05.900 --> 00:11:06.400
+Yeah.
+
+00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:10.760
+[Speaker 0]: Maybe a side note, we have 4 minutes here on
+
+00:11:12.040 --> 00:11:12.400
+before we switch into the next track,
+
+00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:13.700
+just to let you know.
+
+00:11:17.900 --> 00:11:18.400
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you. So the hyper drive mirror feature
+
+00:11:21.220 --> 00:11:21.720
+that we added, would allow you to selectively
+
+00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:24.960
+choose which files you want to share in a
+
+00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:28.780
+hyperdrive. So, with Prot's denote file
+
+00:11:30.660 --> 00:11:31.000
+naming scheme or Carl Voigt's file tags
+
+00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:33.760
+naming scheme, you could just specify a
+
+00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:36.140
+regular expression. And you could say,
+
+00:11:40.140 --> 00:11:40.460
+I want to share out of my directory of org
+
+00:11:42.560 --> 00:11:42.740
+files, I want to share only those files that
+
+00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:44.720
+have been tagged as public,
+
+00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:47.520
+or only those files that have been tagged as
+
+00:11:49.680 --> 00:11:49.840
+emacs and then only those ones would get
+
+00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:51.220
+uploaded into your hyperdrive
+
+00:11:54.280 --> 00:11:54.560
+[Speaker 3]: or exclude all in any of the ones that say
+
+00:11:54.560 --> 00:11:55.060
+private
+
+00:12:01.620 --> 00:12:02.120
+[Speaker 0]: yep mike had a question
+
+00:12:05.220 --> 00:12:05.720
+[Speaker 4]: yeah I have a question for the hyperdrive.
+
+00:12:08.520 --> 00:12:08.940
+So I just maybe I missed it and you haven't
+
+00:12:09.340 --> 00:12:09.840
+put a link.
+
+00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:16.700
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, Mikhail, we can't hear you.
+
+00:12:22.660 --> 00:12:23.160
+[Speaker 3]: Heard you for a second.
+
+00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:28.940
+[Speaker 1]: Yes?
+
+00:12:29.640 --> 00:12:30.040
+[Speaker 4]: Can someone hear me? Okay,
+
+00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:31.400
+I have no idea what happened to my
+
+00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:32.980
+microphone, but now it's back.
+
+00:12:34.760 --> 00:12:34.920
+[Speaker 3]: Now we can. You can see the microphone on the
+
+00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:36.340
+top of the screen. So
+
+00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:39.080
+[Speaker 4]: yes, thank you. Okay. I have a question to
+
+00:12:41.520 --> 00:12:41.720
+hyperdrive. Is the hyperdrive a find on the
+
+00:12:46.160 --> 00:12:46.320
+hole punch point, point T O hole Or is it
+
+00:12:47.020 --> 00:12:47.520
+just another hyperdrive?
+
+00:12:51.260 --> 00:12:51.760
+[Speaker 1]: That's exactly the project that we're using.
+
+00:12:54.520 --> 00:12:55.020
+So the HolePunch team has released hyperdrive
+
+00:12:59.340 --> 00:12:59.620
+and other hyper core libraries as free
+
+00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:02.380
+software libraries that you can use.
+
+00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:04.440
+And so MoV SignWeaver,
+
+00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:07.440
+the project that MoV is working on,
+
+00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:11.620
+HyperGateway, depends on those libraries and
+
+00:13:15.520 --> 00:13:15.880
+it makes it easy for you to build other
+
+00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:17.700
+clients like hyperdrive.el
+
+00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:21.100
+which connect to the hyperdrive network.
+
+00:13:22.800 --> 00:13:23.300
+I hope that answers your question.
+
+00:13:25.140 --> 00:13:25.440
+[Speaker 4]: Yes it does, thank you.
+
+00:13:28.380 --> 00:13:28.620
+And what did make you choose hyperdrive for
+
+00:13:29.380 --> 00:13:29.880
+this Emacs project?
+
+00:13:34.400 --> 00:13:34.900
+[Speaker 1]: Mainly the fact that the drives are mutable,
+
+00:13:37.660 --> 00:13:38.160
+which makes it distinct from IPFS or
+
+00:13:40.800 --> 00:13:41.020
+BitTorrent, where when you share some piece
+
+00:13:44.760 --> 00:13:45.060
+of content, you're stuck with that static
+
+00:13:46.800 --> 00:13:47.020
+piece of content, which works well for some
+
+00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:50.100
+cases, but if you say you have a Zettelkasten
+
+00:13:52.300 --> 00:13:52.500
+or you have a set of org files that you want
+
+00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:56.580
+to share with people, you want to be able to
+
+00:13:58.860 --> 00:13:59.160
+update those files and have other people pull
+
+00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:00.360
+those updates from you.
+
+00:14:02.300 --> 00:14:02.720
+And so HyperDrive allows you to have these
+
+00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:05.820
+mutable sets of files that you can share and
+
+00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:08.600
+use the same link for other peers to pull the
+
+00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:09.800
+latest changes from you.
+
+00:14:11.660 --> 00:14:11.960
+Also, it's versioned, as we showed in the
+
+00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:15.700
+video, which is really helpful for having
+
+00:14:17.500 --> 00:14:17.900
+community deliberations and community
+
+00:14:19.400 --> 00:14:19.600
+discussions where you want to be able to
+
+00:14:22.420 --> 00:14:22.700
+reference some something that somebody said
+
+00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:26.320
+in the past and not have it get deleted or
+
+00:14:26.860 --> 00:14:27.360
+changed or something.
+
+00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:31.100
+[Speaker 0]: We are now switching to talk So just for
+
+00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:33.200
+letting you know if you want to say something
+
+00:14:37.640 --> 00:14:37.840
+now. Too late. The BB room is still open,
+
+00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:38.860
+so you can still discuss.
+
+00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:41.980
+There's also a lot going on on the pad.
+
+00:14:47.980 --> 00:14:48.480
+But you can also discuss here inside and
+
+00:14:49.760 --> 00:14:50.260
+answer the pet questions maybe later.
+
+00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:53.300
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, there are good questions.
+
+00:14:58.680 --> 00:14:59.180
+I'll go ahead, please.
+
+00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:01.620
+[Speaker 3]: continuing here on the pad?
+
+00:15:04.540 --> 00:15:05.040
+[Speaker 1]: Are we I can hear you.
+
+00:15:07.540 --> 00:15:08.040
+[Speaker 5]: Yeah, so the question I had on the pad was,
+
+00:15:10.760 --> 00:15:10.900
+would it make sense in any sense to put a
+
+00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:13.940
+FUSE interface or put the POSIX semantics in
+
+00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:15.460
+front of this at some point?
+
+00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:18.080
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that would be cool.
+
+00:15:20.680 --> 00:15:21.060
+It's kind of a similar question to any plans
+
+00:15:21.680 --> 00:15:22.180
+for a Tramp interface.
+
+00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:25.940
+There was a project that the HyperCore
+
+00:15:31.160 --> 00:15:31.500
+HolePunch team was working on a year or more
+
+00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:34.820
+ago that provided a FUSE interface.
+
+00:15:39.560 --> 00:15:40.060
+And I think it didn't pan out.
+
+00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:43.940
+But it's a good idea. Same with the Tramp
+
+00:15:46.560 --> 00:15:46.720
+interface. It seems like a good idea that
+
+00:15:51.900 --> 00:15:52.260
+would make it possible to more easily hook
+
+00:15:55.520 --> 00:15:56.020
+into the built-in Emacs functionality for,
+
+00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:01.840
+for example, like incremental file name
+
+00:16:03.680 --> 00:16:03.960
+completion, which we don't currently support
+
+00:16:09.800 --> 00:16:10.260
+in Hyperdrive.el. So I'd love to have
+
+00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:13.220
+feedback and design ideas for those projects.
+
+00:16:15.860 --> 00:16:16.020
+[Speaker 5]: Yeah, there's just Everything in Emacs just
+
+00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:18.280
+sort of assumes the file system is there and
+
+00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:21.440
+usable in that way. That's all.
+
+00:16:23.980 --> 00:16:24.480
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it's a good idea.
+
+00:16:28.180 --> 00:16:28.680
+[Speaker 3]: An idea for the privacy type thing is
+
+00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:33.380
+Syncthing links. Because I think you can set
+
+00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:36.480
+up Syncthing in such a way that you have the
+
+00:16:38.560 --> 00:16:38.900
+private networks that other people can't
+
+00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:40.740
+actually get access to.
+
+00:16:45.540 --> 00:16:45.700
+[Speaker 1]: I did not know that that was possible with
+
+00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:47.620
+Syncthing. I'll have to look into that.
+
+00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:49.200
+[Speaker 3]: At least I think it is anyway,
+
+00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:53.500
+because yeah, there's ways you can explicitly
+
+00:16:56.780 --> 00:16:57.280
+authorize devices. Yeah,
+
+00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:00.400
+right. I think you could actually set it up
+
+00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:03.960
+in such a way that you can have private stuff
+
+00:17:06.300 --> 00:17:06.480
+and links, and then that might be a way that
+
+00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:10.619
+you can get a completely distributed
+
+00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:13.220
+Zettelcast and with private notes.
+
+00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:22.599
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. Good idea. There's a question in the
+
+00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:26.380
+pad about DATRS, a Rust version of
+
+00:17:28.660 --> 00:17:29.160
+HyperDrive. I had not heard of that,
+
+00:17:30.260 --> 00:17:30.760
+so I'll have to look into that.
+
+00:17:33.040 --> 00:17:33.460
+If you had your druthers,
+
+00:17:34.820 --> 00:17:35.320
+what would make your work on hyperdrive.dl
+
+00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:40.740
+easier? It's been a lot of fun.
+
+00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:42.980
+I would love to have more user feedback.
+
+00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:46.160
+That would be my wish.
+
+00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:51.000
+I tried putting a git repo in HyperDrive.
+
+00:17:53.320 --> 00:17:53.500
+Does it work well? I don't think that would
+
+00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:57.100
+work well because, as I mentioned a moment a
+
+00:18:00.060 --> 00:18:00.220
+few moments ago, the data that you put into a
+
+00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:01.420
+hyperdrive is duplicated.
+
+00:18:06.300 --> 00:18:06.800
+So if you had the whole work tree in
+
+00:18:08.800 --> 00:18:08.960
+hyperdrive every time you made a change and
+
+00:18:12.340 --> 00:18:12.840
+saved it, it would be duplicated.
+
+00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:15.740
+If you had just a bare repository,
+
+00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:18.740
+I don't know, try it.
+
+00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:21.540
+[Speaker 3]: They're trying to solve the same problem,
+
+00:18:23.560 --> 00:18:24.060
+but 1 of the optimizations they have for
+
+00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:25.900
+being able to view a whole bunch of people's
+
+00:18:28.780 --> 00:18:28.980
+data is they made shallow clones a lot
+
+00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:35.140
+[Speaker 1]: Would you phrase that again,
+
+00:18:35.140 --> 00:18:35.640
+please?
+
+00:18:39.780 --> 00:18:40.280
+[Speaker 3]: easier. Right? So like Git and Hypercore,
+
+00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:43.220
+1 of the things they do is they allow you to
+
+00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:46.660
+have a whole history of every single change
+
+00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:52.380
+for a dataset Zettelkasten project.
+
+00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:56.600
+But 1 of the optimizations Hypercore did to
+
+00:19:02.020 --> 00:19:02.220
+make it more network web friendly is they
+
+00:19:04.540 --> 00:19:04.700
+made the shallow clones work a lot better and
+
+00:19:07.040 --> 00:19:07.240
+a lot... Yeah, they made that work a lot
+
+00:19:08.760 --> 00:19:09.060
+better so you don't have to download every
+
+00:19:11.340 --> 00:19:11.840
+single thing for every single project.
+
+00:19:14.860 --> 00:19:15.100
+And because they both are implementing the
+
+00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:18.040
+delta upgrades, I don't see how they could
+
+00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:19.500
+work really well together.
+
+00:19:21.780 --> 00:19:22.280
+At least from what it looked like to me.
+
+00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:26.140
+It can't hurt to experiment.
+
+00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:29.480
+[Speaker 1]: But yeah, I would agree with you.
+
+00:19:35.020 --> 00:19:35.180
+Is data transferred between nodes in the
+
+00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:39.060
+clear or encrypted? That's a good question.
+
+00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:42.140
+I don't know how it's encrypted.
+
+00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:47.940
+I don't, I wouldn't recommend sharing
+
+00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:53.900
+sensitive data with hyperdrive right now?
+
+00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:55.800
+I would recommend if you want to play with
+
+00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:57.520
+it, have it be something where you're
+
+00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:01.160
+expecting the data to be shared.
+
+00:20:03.460 --> 00:20:03.960
+Is there a searchable catalog?
+
+00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:06.980
+[Speaker 3]: It's also the data in transport versus data
+
+00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:08.800
+at rest. I'm pretty sure the data at rest
+
+00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:10.460
+would not be encrypted.
+
+00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:14.640
+Right. You can separate that into those 2
+
+00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:15.140
+questions.
+
+00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:20.420
+[Speaker 1]: Right. Right. Is there a searchable catalog
+
+00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:23.320
+of hyper drives? So that's a thing,
+
+00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:33.480
+an idea that we've been a distributed trust
+
+00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:38.700
+network for discovering peers that are
+
+00:20:41.260 --> 00:20:41.760
+trusted for a particular topic.
+
+00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:47.440
+And we actually made a demo video of a
+
+00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:51.900
+previous prototype that's available on the
+
+00:20:54.580 --> 00:20:55.080
+Ashen hyperdrive that you can watch that
+
+00:20:58.980 --> 00:20:59.280
+shows the basic idea. But the idea is just
+
+00:21:02.980 --> 00:21:03.480
+that you would have a list of peers that you
+
+00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:07.620
+think are worth listening to or worth reading
+
+00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:09.880
+for a particular topic.
+
+00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:12.180
+And those peers would have peers that they
+
+00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:14.920
+think are worth listening to for that same
+
+00:21:16.600 --> 00:21:16.720
+topic. And so you would say,
+
+00:21:17.560 --> 00:21:17.900
+if I'm interested in Emacs,
+
+00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:21.660
+I want to see all the peers that I trust for
+
+00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:24.200
+the topic Emacs. And if,
+
+00:21:27.340 --> 00:21:27.640
+say, Adam Porter shows up in my list and Adam
+
+00:21:30.340 --> 00:21:30.840
+Porter trusts Jonas and Jonas trusts Pratt,
+
+00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:33.920
+I would be able to read hyperdrive
+
+00:21:36.760 --> 00:21:37.260
+information from all of those people by
+
+00:21:41.600 --> 00:21:41.800
+looking at the indirect relationships that I
+
+00:21:43.260 --> 00:21:43.760
+have by following the chain of relationships,
+
+00:21:44.760 --> 00:21:45.260
+kind of like a web of trust.
+
+00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:49.860
+And so it would also allow you to have a
+
+00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:53.980
+network of peers that you trust to block
+
+00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:55.400
+other people on your behalf.
+
+00:21:57.660 --> 00:21:58.160
+So it would be useful for subjective
+
+00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:02.520
+moderation where you can remove spam and bad
+
+00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.420
+actors from the people that you follow
+
+00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:09.440
+without having to delegate that powerful
+
+00:22:13.260 --> 00:22:13.380
+responsibility to some third party in a
+
+00:22:15.260 --> 00:22:15.720
+permanent way where that third party might
+
+00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:23.320
+abuse that power. So it allows you to share
+
+00:22:26.120 --> 00:22:26.260
+your list of trusted peers and your list of
+
+00:22:29.180 --> 00:22:29.280
+blocked peers with other people in a
+
+00:22:29.860 --> 00:22:30.360
+peer-to-peer way.
+
+00:22:38.080 --> 00:22:38.580
+[Speaker 3]: Have you ever looked at GNUnet?
+
+00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:40.700
+It kind of does some...
+
+00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:45.800
+It's trying to do something weird with the
+
+00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:47.600
+internet where it redesigns it from the
+
+00:22:51.040 --> 00:22:51.540
+ground up to be peer-to-peer,
+
+00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:54.180
+local first, or something like that.
+
+00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:58.880
+[Speaker 1]: I would like to know more about GNUnet.
+
+00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:01.960
+Yes. I have heard of it,
+
+00:23:03.620 --> 00:23:04.120
+but I haven't really researched it.
+
+00:23:09.060 --> 00:23:09.560
+If you edit a file on the hyperdrive,
+
+00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:12.900
+then edit the same file on the local mirror,
+
+00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:15.640
+how is the conflict handled when you sync the
+
+00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:21.280
+mirror again? So I think if I understand the
+
+00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:29.620
+question, the answer is that you can't edit
+
+00:23:32.280 --> 00:23:32.780
+the file in 2 different places,
+
+00:23:36.860 --> 00:23:37.360
+I think is the answer to the question.
+
+00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:41.720
+If you were to manually copy the private key
+
+00:23:44.040 --> 00:23:44.540
+from 1 machine onto another machine,
+
+00:23:51.820 --> 00:23:52.320
+then you could cause a conflict,
+
+00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:54.900
+like a merge conflict,
+
+00:23:58.100 --> 00:23:58.240
+but you would have to go out of your way to
+
+00:24:00.520 --> 00:24:00.900
+do that. And It's not handled.
+
+00:24:03.580 --> 00:24:03.820
+I think the Hypercore Hole Punch team has
+
+00:24:05.600 --> 00:24:05.860
+another project that they're working on that
+
+00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:07.700
+would, it's called AutoBase,
+
+00:24:09.560 --> 00:24:10.060
+that would merge those conflicts.
+
+00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:13.680
+But we're not using that right now.
+
+00:24:16.260 --> 00:24:16.760
+And I think it's in early development still.
+
+00:24:19.860 --> 00:24:20.360
+So there might be a solution in the future.
+
+00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:32.740
+[Speaker 3]: What's a surprising change of thoughts or
+
+00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:37.180
+what's the most interesting thing you weren't
+
+00:24:39.060 --> 00:24:39.560
+expecting to discover while developing this?
+
+00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:44.800
+Like change of thoughts on how you write or I
+
+00:24:45.020 --> 00:24:45.520
+don't know.
+
+00:24:59.060 --> 00:24:59.540
+[Speaker 1]: Well, I'm relatively new to Emacs and to Lisp
+
+00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:01.700
+and really to programming in general.
+
+00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:04.540
+And so it's been a fantastic learning
+
+00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:08.900
+experience. Adam, Alpha Papa,
+
+00:25:11.320 --> 00:25:11.520
+Adam and I have been doing a lot of pair
+
+00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:13.460
+programming sessions where we work together
+
+00:25:15.380 --> 00:25:15.880
+and I get to learn from him.
+
+00:25:19.540 --> 00:25:19.940
+And we've had meetings with Jonas and Prat
+
+00:25:23.560 --> 00:25:23.800
+and meetings with Mauve where it's a
+
+00:25:25.520 --> 00:25:26.020
+fantastic learning experience for me to
+
+00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:30.800
+discover how to build software in an
+
+00:25:32.820 --> 00:25:33.320
+efficient and intelligent way.
+
+00:25:40.580 --> 00:25:40.920
+It's a huge pleasure. If there are no more
+
+00:25:43.320 --> 00:25:43.820
+questions, I just wanted to encourage
+
+00:25:48.380 --> 00:25:48.620
+everyone to try it out and to let us know
+
+00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:50.560
+what you think. It would be really helpful to
+
+00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:55.320
+have some feedback from people who are using
+
+00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:57.600
+it in new and creative ways that we haven't
+
+00:25:57.600 --> 00:25:58.100
+anticipated.
+
+00:26:02.120 --> 00:26:02.300
+[Speaker 6]: Hi, I'd just like to say that I tried this
+
+00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:03.480
+new thing called hyperdrive.el
+
+00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:06.380
+today, and I think it's pretty cool.
+
+00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:12.800
+[Speaker 2]: Sorry, that was somebody else.
+
+00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:13.940
+Hey Joseph, how's it going?
+
+00:26:15.080 --> 00:26:15.580
+Oh, talk today.
+
+00:26:16.420 --> 00:26:16.580
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, thanks. Wonderful.
+
+00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:19.700
+[Speaker 1]: Who's that? Oh, hey. Well,
+
+00:26:34.060 --> 00:26:34.560
+I'm going to say goodbye.
+
+00:26:37.040 --> 00:26:37.540
+Thank you. And thank you for your questions,
+
+00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:39.840
+[Speaker 3]: I know that
+
+00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:40.880
+[Speaker 1]: PlasmaStrike. I've met you before.
+
+00:26:42.340 --> 00:26:42.720
+Appreciate your questions,
+
+00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:43.380
+your thoughts.
+
+00:26:50.380 --> 00:26:50.880
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, by the way, Joseph,
+
+00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:53.500
+we have our, our first,
+
+00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:55.480
+I don't know if our first new user,
+
+00:26:57.280 --> 00:26:57.780
+but we have the first link being shared,
+
+00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:01.480
+to hyperdrive file in the chat and I loaded
+
+00:27:03.080 --> 00:27:03.240
+it and it works. And it's funny too.
+
+00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:04.000
+It's worth looking at.
+
+00:27:09.140 --> 00:27:09.640
+So. Oh, I think it's frozen.
+
+00:27:11.580 --> 00:27:12.080
+I don't know if anybody can hear me.
+
+00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:13.220
+[Speaker 3]: I can.
+
+00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:15.620
+[Speaker 2]: Okay, cool. The browser is frozen.
+
+00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:19.520
+It's it's not, okay. Just unfroze.
+
+00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:22.100
+Anyway. All right. Well,
+
+00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:24.440
+By the way, I enjoyed your talks about
+
+00:27:26.260 --> 00:27:26.480
+hyperbole. I'm going to rewatch those later
+
+00:27:28.040 --> 00:27:28.260
+when I get a chance. It was nice to meet you,
+
+00:27:31.100 --> 00:27:31.240
+too. Bob is a really great guy to work with.
+
+00:27:38.800 --> 00:27:39.300
+[Speaker 3]: Definitely a lot of interesting people.
+
+00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:40.700
+[Speaker 2]: I owe him 1. Yes, sir.
+
+00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:41.760
+All right, you have a good day,
+
+00:27:45.140 --> 00:27:45.640
+[Speaker 3]: Will do, I like the insistence on local
+
+00:27:48.740 --> 00:27:48.940
+first. Feels like it's a good dovetail with
+
+00:27:49.540 --> 00:27:50.040
+the hyper core
+
+00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:51.680
+[Speaker 2]: enjoy the conference. Yeah,
+
+00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:55.120
+yeah, I think there's a lot of a lot of
+
+00:27:57.980 --> 00:27:58.180
+interesting possibilities to build on this we
+
+00:28:01.340 --> 00:28:01.600
+have some plans that we Will get to you later
+
+00:28:05.600 --> 00:28:05.820
+this well in the coming year And we'll see
+
+00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:07.900
+where the hyperdrive people,
+
+00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:10.040
+you know, upstream how they develop it as
+
+00:28:14.340 --> 00:28:14.840
+well and yeah, so exciting times.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-llm--llm-clients-in-emacs-functionality-and-standardization--andrew-hyatt--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-llm--llm-clients-in-emacs-functionality-and-standardization--andrew-hyatt--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d48cc06d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-llm--llm-clients-in-emacs-functionality-and-standardization--andrew-hyatt--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1910 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:13.099 --> 00:00:13.599
+[Speaker 0]: Okay. Hello, everyone.
+
+00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:17.060
+I think this is the start of the Q&A session.
+
+00:00:25.119 --> 00:00:25.599
+So people can just ask me questions here.
+
+00:00:28.259 --> 00:00:28.380
+Or I think maybe these questions are going to
+
+00:00:30.560 --> 00:00:30.980
+be read by someone. Yes,
+
+00:00:34.680 --> 00:00:35.060
+thank you. Should I start doing that?
+
+00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:39.400
+I also know that there's questions in the
+
+00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:41.480
+either pad room, so I could start out
+
+00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:42.780
+answering those as well.
+
+00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:45.300
+[Speaker 1]: Right, sure. Whichever way you prefer.
+
+00:00:46.860 --> 00:00:47.220
+If you prefer to read the questions yourself,
+
+00:00:48.940 --> 00:00:49.080
+by all means, or if you would prefer me to
+
+00:00:50.080 --> 00:00:50.280
+read them to you, that also works.
+
+00:00:50.580 --> 00:00:50.920
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, I see.
+
+00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:51.760
+[Speaker 0]: Why don't you read them to me?
+
+00:00:53.260 --> 00:00:53.760
+I think it'll just be more interesting then.
+
+00:00:56.820 --> 00:00:57.160
+[Speaker 1]: Sure. OK, let's see. The first question is,
+
+00:00:58.360 --> 00:00:58.860
+what is your use case for embedding,
+
+00:01:00.060 --> 00:01:00.560
+mainly for searching?
+
+00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:06.340
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I mean, I think the use case really is
+
+00:01:12.100 --> 00:01:12.320
+searching. And I think it is very useful when
+
+00:01:15.060 --> 00:01:15.320
+you're searching for something in a vague
+
+00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:18.780
+way. Just to give you an example,
+
+00:01:23.860 --> 00:01:24.360
+I have a note system called EKG.
+
+00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:26.260
+I type all my notes on it.
+
+00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:29.120
+You can find it on GitHub and Melba.
+
+00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:34.400
+But I wrote something at some point a year
+
+00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:36.020
+ago or something. I wrote something that I
+
+00:01:36.600 --> 00:01:36.980
+just vaguely remembered.
+
+00:01:38.800 --> 00:01:38.940
+Oh, this was about a certain kind of
+
+00:01:41.580 --> 00:01:41.760
+communication. I wanted communicating to
+
+00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:43.479
+large audiences. There's some interesting tip
+
+00:01:44.700 --> 00:01:45.060
+that I wrote down that was really cool.
+
+00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:50.080
+And I was like, well, I need to find it.
+
+00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:52.640
+So I did an embedding search for something
+
+00:01:55.479 --> 00:01:55.979
+like, you know, tips for communicating.
+
+00:01:58.979 --> 00:01:59.100
+Like those words may not have been in what I
+
+00:02:00.020 --> 00:02:00.520
+was trying to find at all,
+
+00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:03.180
+But it was able to find it.
+
+00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:06.260
+And that is something that's very hard to do
+
+00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:07.360
+in other ways. Like, you know,
+
+00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:08.720
+if you had to do this with normal search,
+
+00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:09.660
+you have to do synonyms.
+
+00:02:10.940 --> 00:02:11.200
+And like maybe those synonyms wouldn't cover
+
+00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:12.340
+it. Like with embedding,
+
+00:02:13.940 --> 00:02:14.160
+you can basically get at like the vague
+
+00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:15.460
+sentiment. You're like,
+
+00:02:17.320 --> 00:02:17.560
+you know, you're, you know,
+
+00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:19.700
+you can really query on like what things are
+
+00:02:21.760 --> 00:02:22.260
+about as opposed to what words they have.
+
+00:02:25.600 --> 00:02:26.100
+Also, it's super good for similarity search.
+
+00:02:27.720 --> 00:02:27.900
+So you could say, look,
+
+00:02:30.040 --> 00:02:30.240
+I have a bunch of things that are encoded
+
+00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:31.900
+with embeddings that I want to show.
+
+00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:34.280
+For example, you can make an embedding for
+
+00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:35.380
+every buffer. You'd be like,
+
+00:02:37.060 --> 00:02:37.200
+well, show me buffers that are similar to
+
+00:02:38.740 --> 00:02:38.980
+this buffer. That doesn't sound super useful,
+
+00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:40.940
+but this is the kind of thing you could do.
+
+00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:45.480
+And so if you have a bunch of notes or
+
+00:02:46.720 --> 00:02:46.920
+something else that you want to search on,
+
+00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:48.740
+you'd be like, what's similar to this buffer?
+
+00:02:51.500 --> 00:02:51.760
+Or what notes are similar to each other?
+
+00:02:53.040 --> 00:02:53.540
+What buffers are similar to each other?
+
+00:02:55.380 --> 00:02:55.880
+It's super good for this sort of thing.
+
+00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:01.280
+And it's also good for this kind of retrieval
+
+00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:03.520
+augmented generation, where you sort of,
+
+00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:05.280
+you retrieve things and the purpose is not
+
+00:03:06.600 --> 00:03:06.880
+for you to see them, but then you pass that
+
+00:03:12.040 --> 00:03:12.180
+to the LLM. And then it's able to be a little
+
+00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:14.800
+bit more accurate because it has the actual
+
+00:03:15.760 --> 00:03:16.260
+text that you're trying to,
+
+00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:19.180
+that is relevant, and it can cite from and
+
+00:03:20.720 --> 00:03:20.820
+things like that. And then it could give you
+
+00:03:22.260 --> 00:03:22.660
+a much better answer that's kind of,
+
+00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:25.680
+you know, not just from its own little neural
+
+00:03:26.320 --> 00:03:26.820
+nets and memory.
+
+00:03:31.920 --> 00:03:32.120
+[Speaker 1]: Cool, thanks. Let's see,
+
+00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:36.100
+next question. What do you think about embed
+
+00:03:40.160 --> 00:03:40.660
+Emacs manual versus GPT's Emacs manual?
+
+00:03:45.480 --> 00:03:45.660
+[Speaker 0]: I'm not exactly sure what this question is
+
+00:03:46.980 --> 00:03:47.480
+trying to say. So I mean,
+
+00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:51.140
+if someone wrote that and wants to expand on
+
+00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:55.320
+it a little bit, but I think that maybe
+
+00:03:58.420 --> 00:03:58.920
+you're saying like you could embed,
+
+00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:00.780
+have embeddings for like various,
+
+00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:02.720
+like every paragraph or something of the
+
+00:04:04.540 --> 00:04:04.680
+Emacs manual. But it's also the case that
+
+00:04:06.500 --> 00:04:07.000
+like GPT is already for sure already read it,
+
+00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:09.960
+right? And so you could ask questions that
+
+00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:13.780
+are about Emacs and our ELISP or whatever
+
+00:04:15.200 --> 00:04:15.700
+part of the manual you want to find.
+
+00:04:19.760 --> 00:04:20.240
+And it will do a reasonably good job,
+
+00:04:22.280 --> 00:04:22.780
+especially the better models will do a
+
+00:04:24.620 --> 00:04:24.940
+reasonably good job of saying you something
+
+00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:26.540
+that is vaguely accurate.
+
+00:04:29.440 --> 00:04:29.860
+But if you do this retrieval augmented
+
+00:04:30.580 --> 00:04:31.080
+generation with embeddings,
+
+00:04:32.640 --> 00:04:33.140
+you can get something that is very accurate.
+
+00:04:36.700 --> 00:04:36.960
+At least I think. I haven't tried it,
+
+00:04:38.760 --> 00:04:39.020
+but this is a technique that works in other
+
+00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:43.260
+similar cases. So you can also imagine like,
+
+00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:44.500
+oh, this whole thing I said,
+
+00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:48.120
+like, oh, you can query for vague things and
+
+00:04:49.140 --> 00:04:49.600
+get parts of the manual,
+
+00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:53.000
+perhaps. I'm not exactly sure if that would
+
+00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:55.520
+be useful, but maybe. Usually when I'm
+
+00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:57.180
+looking things up in the Emacs manual or
+
+00:04:58.320 --> 00:04:58.780
+Elist manual, I have something extremely
+
+00:05:00.020 --> 00:05:00.300
+specific and I kind of know where to look.
+
+00:05:02.960 --> 00:05:03.080
+But having other ways to get at this
+
+00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:04.500
+information is always good.
+
+00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:10.740
+[Speaker 1]: Right. Looks like they added a clarification
+
+00:05:12.280 --> 00:05:12.720
+if you would like to read that yourself,
+
+00:05:14.180 --> 00:05:14.680
+or would you like me to read it for you?
+
+00:05:17.640 --> 00:05:18.140
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah. Yes, OK. It says,
+
+00:05:20.460 --> 00:05:20.740
+I've never tried. Yeah,
+
+00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:21.820
+the question is like OK,
+
+00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:23.240
+there is a difference between the kind of
+
+00:05:23.860 --> 00:05:24.360
+thing as I just described.
+
+00:05:26.200 --> 00:05:26.600
+I have not tried the difference with the EMAX
+
+00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:31.980
+manual itself. It'd be interesting to see
+
+00:05:33.700 --> 00:05:33.960
+what this is, but I would expect like these
+
+00:05:35.140 --> 00:05:35.600
+techniques, the retrieval augmented
+
+00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:39.340
+generation is generally pretty good.
+
+00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:41.740
+And I suspect it would,
+
+00:05:43.580 --> 00:05:43.780
+I would bet money on the fact that it's gonna
+
+00:05:45.820 --> 00:05:46.240
+give you, you know, better results than just,
+
+00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:48.360
+you know, doing a free form query without any
+
+00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:49.940
+retrieval augmented generation.
+
+00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:54.640
+[Speaker 1]: Cool. Let's see. Next question.
+
+00:05:56.380 --> 00:05:56.880
+When deferring commit messages to an LLM,
+
+00:05:59.700 --> 00:05:59.920
+what, if anything, do you find you might have
+
+00:06:02.940 --> 00:06:03.440
+[Speaker 0]: lost? Yeah, it's a good question.
+
+00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:06.560
+When deferring anything to a computer,
+
+00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:09.360
+like, you know, I used to have to remember
+
+00:06:11.200 --> 00:06:11.700
+how to get places, and now,
+
+00:06:14.540 --> 00:06:15.040
+you know, on the few occasions which I drive,
+
+00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:16.720
+like, It could just tell me how to get
+
+00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:22.280
+places. So similar things could occur here
+
+00:06:24.960 --> 00:06:25.460
+where like, okay, I'm just leaving the LLM.
+
+00:06:27.380 --> 00:06:27.680
+And so I'm kind of missing out on some
+
+00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:30.220
+opportunity to think coherently about a
+
+00:06:32.440 --> 00:06:32.680
+particular commit. Particular commits are
+
+00:06:36.140 --> 00:06:36.540
+kind of low level. I don't think it's usually
+
+00:06:39.340 --> 00:06:39.840
+relatively obvious and what they're doing.
+
+00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:42.800
+And in this case, I think there's not much
+
+00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:44.540
+loss. But for sure, in other cases,
+
+00:06:46.400 --> 00:06:46.900
+if you're starting to get into situations
+
+00:06:48.640 --> 00:06:48.800
+where it's writing your emails and all this
+
+00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:53.300
+stuff. First of all, it's in 1 sense,
+
+00:06:55.580 --> 00:06:56.040
+I'm not sure you might be losing something by
+
+00:06:57.520 --> 00:06:57.780
+delegating things. On the other hand,
+
+00:06:59.120 --> 00:06:59.280
+you know, when you're interacting with these
+
+00:07:01.280 --> 00:07:01.560
+LLMs, you have to be extremely specific about
+
+00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:03.240
+what you want, or else it's just not going to
+
+00:07:07.540 --> 00:07:07.680
+do a good job. And that might actually be a
+
+00:07:09.440 --> 00:07:09.860
+good thing. So the question might be that
+
+00:07:11.820 --> 00:07:12.240
+maybe you might gain things by using an LLM
+
+00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:14.060
+to do your work. It might not actually even
+
+00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:15.400
+save you that much time,
+
+00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:18.640
+at least initially, because you have to kind
+
+00:07:20.460 --> 00:07:20.660
+of practice again super specific about what
+
+00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:22.900
+you want to get out of the output it's going
+
+00:07:26.940 --> 00:07:26.980
+to give you so like oh I'm you know maybe you
+
+00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:29.820
+know you're on the emacs devel mailing list
+
+00:07:31.780 --> 00:07:31.980
+and you're like okay write this email about
+
+00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:34.140
+this about this And here's what I want to
+
+00:07:35.370 --> 00:07:35.460
+say. And here's the kind of tone I want to
+
+00:07:36.020 --> 00:07:36.420
+use. And here's the like,
+
+00:07:37.660 --> 00:07:38.160
+oh, you might want to specify like everything
+
+00:07:39.620 --> 00:07:40.120
+that you kind of want to get into this.
+
+00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:42.680
+Usually it's easier just to write the email.
+
+00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:46.100
+But I think that practice of kind of
+
+00:07:48.080 --> 00:07:48.420
+understanding what you want is not something
+
+00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:53.180
+you normally do. And I think it's going to be
+
+00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:56.480
+an interesting exercise that will help people
+
+00:07:57.280 --> 00:07:57.540
+understand. That said,
+
+00:07:58.860 --> 00:07:59.020
+I haven't done that much of that,
+
+00:07:59.900 --> 00:08:00.040
+so I can't say, oh, yeah,
+
+00:08:01.080 --> 00:08:01.440
+I've done this and it works for me.
+
+00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:03.120
+Maybe. I think it's an interesting thing to
+
+00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:03.620
+explore.
+
+00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:08.220
+[Speaker 1]: Sure. Thanks. Let's see.
+
+00:08:10.840 --> 00:08:11.140
+Let's see. Can you share your font settings
+
+00:08:13.440 --> 00:08:13.740
+in your Emacs config? Those are some nice
+
+00:08:14.200 --> 00:08:14.700
+fonts for reading.
+
+00:08:18.900 --> 00:08:19.200
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I think I was using Menlo at the time.
+
+00:08:20.840 --> 00:08:20.980
+Unfortunately, I don't save those kinds of
+
+00:08:21.940 --> 00:08:22.200
+things, like a history of this.
+
+00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:24.500
+I've kind of switched now to,
+
+00:08:27.340 --> 00:08:27.540
+what was that? I think I wrote it down in
+
+00:08:29.440 --> 00:08:29.940
+the, I switched to MunaSpace,
+
+00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:32.420
+which just came out like a week or 2 ago,
+
+00:08:33.340 --> 00:08:33.840
+and is also pretty cool.
+
+00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:35.940
+So I think it's Menlo.
+
+00:08:37.380 --> 00:08:37.760
+The internal question,
+
+00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:38.900
+what font are you using?
+
+00:08:42.020 --> 00:08:42.340
+[Speaker 1]: Indeed, yeah. It looks like someone guessed
+
+00:08:43.780 --> 00:08:44.280
+as well that it might be Menlo.
+
+00:08:47.680 --> 00:08:48.040
+OK, Cool. Yeah, next question.
+
+00:08:48.900 --> 00:08:49.400
+In terms of standardization,
+
+00:08:53.260 --> 00:08:53.520
+do you see a need for the medium to large
+
+00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:56.160
+scale effort needed? And then they also
+
+00:08:56.960 --> 00:08:57.460
+elaborate about it.
+
+00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:04.100
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I mean, I do think,
+
+00:09:06.040 --> 00:09:06.300
+I don't know if it's large scale,
+
+00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:08.500
+but at least it's probably medium scale.
+
+00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:10.520
+There's a lot of things that are missing that
+
+00:09:12.260 --> 00:09:12.400
+we don't have right now in emacs when you're
+
+00:09:13.660 --> 00:09:14.160
+dealing with LLMs. 1 is,
+
+00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:18.420
+a prompting system. And by that,
+
+00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:22.020
+I mean, you know, prompts are just like big
+
+00:09:24.520 --> 00:09:24.720
+blocks of text, but there's also senses that
+
+00:09:28.260 --> 00:09:28.420
+like prompts need to be composable and you
+
+00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:30.660
+need to be able to iterate on parts of the
+
+00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:37.100
+prompt. And so it's also customizable.
+
+00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:39.060
+Users might want to customize it.
+
+00:09:41.260 --> 00:09:41.360
+On the other hand, it's not super easy to
+
+00:09:43.820 --> 00:09:44.320
+write the prompt. So you want really good
+
+00:09:47.900 --> 00:09:48.040
+defaults. So the whole prompt system is kind
+
+00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:51.460
+of complicated. That needs to be kind of
+
+00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:52.760
+standardized, because I don't think there's
+
+00:09:54.380 --> 00:09:54.720
+any tools for doing something like that right
+
+00:09:58.380 --> 00:09:58.880
+now. I personally use my system,
+
+00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:00.600
+my note system for EKG.
+
+00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:01.920
+I don't think that's appropriate for
+
+00:10:02.800 --> 00:10:03.120
+everyone, but it does,
+
+00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:04.640
+I did write it to have some of these
+
+00:10:06.540 --> 00:10:06.760
+capabilities of composability that I think
+
+00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:08.860
+are useful for a prompt generation.
+
+00:10:11.940 --> 00:10:12.280
+It'd be nice to have a system like that,
+
+00:10:15.660 --> 00:10:16.160
+but for general use. I don't,
+
+00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:18.060
+this is something I've been meaning to think
+
+00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:19.000
+about, like how to do it,
+
+00:10:19.760 --> 00:10:19.920
+but like this, you know,
+
+00:10:21.260 --> 00:10:21.660
+if someone's interested in getting this area,
+
+00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:26.420
+like, I would love to chat about that or,
+
+00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:27.980
+you know, I think there's a lot of
+
+00:10:31.020 --> 00:10:31.260
+interesting ideas that we could have to have
+
+00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:34.540
+a system that allows us to make progress
+
+00:10:38.860 --> 00:10:39.360
+here. And also, I think there's more to
+
+00:10:40.520 --> 00:10:40.900
+standardization to be done.
+
+00:10:42.820 --> 00:10:43.140
+1 thing I'd also like to see that we haven't
+
+00:10:47.020 --> 00:10:47.220
+done yet is a system for standardizing on
+
+00:10:48.060 --> 00:10:48.560
+getting structured output.
+
+00:10:49.640 --> 00:10:50.140
+This is gonna be super useful.
+
+00:10:52.280 --> 00:10:52.780
+I have this for open AIs API,
+
+00:10:53.560 --> 00:10:54.060
+cause they support it.
+
+00:10:55.940 --> 00:10:56.040
+And it's really nice, cause then you can
+
+00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:57.660
+write elist functions that like,
+
+00:10:59.380 --> 00:10:59.880
+okay, I'm going to call the LLM.
+
+00:11:00.760 --> 00:11:01.000
+I'm gonna get structured output.
+
+00:11:02.040 --> 00:11:02.160
+I know what that structure is going to be.
+
+00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:03.680
+It's not going to be just a big block of
+
+00:11:05.660 --> 00:11:06.040
+text. I could turn it into a,
+
+00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:07.480
+you know, a P list or something.
+
+00:11:09.280 --> 00:11:09.480
+And then I could get the values out of that P
+
+00:11:11.880 --> 00:11:12.260
+list. And I know that way I could do,
+
+00:11:14.220 --> 00:11:14.720
+I could write actual apps that are,
+
+00:11:18.300 --> 00:11:18.720
+you know, very, very sort of,
+
+00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:20.680
+you know, useful for very specific purposes
+
+00:11:21.900 --> 00:11:22.400
+and not just for text generation.
+
+00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:24.320
+And I think that's 1 of the most important
+
+00:11:27.100 --> 00:11:27.540
+things we want to do. And I have some ideas
+
+00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:29.160
+about how to do it. I just haven't pursued
+
+00:11:31.640 --> 00:11:32.040
+those yet. But if other people have ideas,
+
+00:11:34.340 --> 00:11:34.540
+I think this would be really interesting to
+
+00:11:35.520 --> 00:11:36.020
+add to the LLM package.
+
+00:11:37.260 --> 00:11:37.760
+So contact me there.
+
+00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:42.600
+[Speaker 1]: Awesome. Quick note before we continue.
+
+00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:44.540
+So I'm not sure how long we're going to be on
+
+00:11:46.040 --> 00:11:46.280
+stream for, because this is the last talk
+
+00:11:48.640 --> 00:11:49.120
+before the break. If we are on the stream
+
+00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:50.200
+long-term, then great.
+
+00:11:51.820 --> 00:11:52.300
+But if not, folks are welcome to continue
+
+00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:53.680
+writing questions on the pad.
+
+00:11:55.140 --> 00:11:55.280
+And hopefully, Andrew will get to them at
+
+00:11:58.020 --> 00:11:58.280
+some point. Or if Andrew maybe has some extra
+
+00:11:59.960 --> 00:12:00.140
+time available and wants to stay on
+
+00:12:01.640 --> 00:12:01.920
+BigBlueButton here, then folks are also
+
+00:12:03.940 --> 00:12:04.340
+welcome to join here and chat with Andrew
+
+00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:09.240
+directly as well. Okay,
+
+00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:10.900
+awesome. So yeah, the next question is,
+
+00:12:12.040 --> 00:12:12.400
+what are your thoughts on the carbon
+
+00:12:14.060 --> 00:12:14.560
+footprint of LLM usage?
+
+00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:17.700
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, it's a really interesting question.
+
+00:12:23.180 --> 00:12:23.360
+I don't have any particular knowledge or
+
+00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:25.580
+opinions about that. It's something I think
+
+00:12:26.980 --> 00:12:27.180
+we should all be educating ourselves more
+
+00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:32.380
+about. It is really, I mean,
+
+00:12:33.040 --> 00:12:33.220
+there's 2 parts of this,
+
+00:12:35.380 --> 00:12:35.500
+right? They take a, there's a huge amount of
+
+00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:37.360
+carbon footprint involved in training these
+
+00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:39.220
+things. Then running them is relatively
+
+00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:42.880
+lightweight. So the question is not
+
+00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:44.920
+necessarily like once it's trained,
+
+00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:46.640
+like I don't feel like it's a big deal to
+
+00:12:48.280 --> 00:12:48.560
+keep using it, but like training these things
+
+00:12:50.680 --> 00:12:51.180
+is kind of like the big carbon cost of it.
+
+00:12:53.680 --> 00:12:54.160
+But like right now, the way everything's
+
+00:12:56.040 --> 00:12:56.260
+going, like every, you know,
+
+00:12:59.060 --> 00:12:59.560
+all, you know, the top 5 or 6 tech companies
+
+00:13:00.900 --> 00:13:01.400
+are all training their LLMs,
+
+00:13:03.580 --> 00:13:03.740
+and this is all costing a giant amount of
+
+00:13:06.820 --> 00:13:07.060
+carbon probably. On the other hand these same
+
+00:13:08.560 --> 00:13:08.680
+companies are pretty good about using the
+
+00:13:10.260 --> 00:13:10.440
+least amount of carbon necessary you know
+
+00:13:12.340 --> 00:13:12.740
+they have their own their tricks for doing
+
+00:13:13.260 --> 00:13:13.760
+things very efficiently.
+
+00:13:22.100 --> 00:13:22.360
+[Speaker 1]: Cool next question, LLMs are slow and
+
+00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:24.340
+responding. Do you think Emacs should provide
+
+00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:27.180
+more async primitives to keep it responsive?
+
+00:13:29.380 --> 00:13:29.880
+Like the URL retrieve is quite bad at
+
+00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:31.760
+building API clients with it.
+
+00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:32.420
+Building API clients with it?
+
+00:13:36.400 --> 00:13:36.900
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah. Well, OK, so first of all,
+
+00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:40.740
+people should be using the LLM client.
+
+00:13:48.740 --> 00:13:48.900
+And So right now, 1 thing I should have
+
+00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:50.440
+mentioned at the top is that there are new
+
+00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:52.640
+packages that I recorded this talk that you
+
+00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:54.920
+just saw several months ago.
+
+00:13:57.780 --> 00:13:58.180
+And so like Elama, there's this package Elama
+
+00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:00.080
+that came out that is using the LM package.
+
+00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:02.680
+And so for example, it doesn't need to worry
+
+00:14:05.140 --> 00:14:05.580
+about this sort of thing because it just uses
+
+00:14:07.560 --> 00:14:07.920
+LLM and package and the LLM package worries
+
+00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:11.820
+about this. And while I'm on the subject of
+
+00:14:12.540 --> 00:14:12.720
+things I forgot to mention,
+
+00:14:15.140 --> 00:14:15.340
+I also should just mention very quickly that
+
+00:14:17.020 --> 00:14:17.520
+there is now an open source model,
+
+00:14:21.680 --> 00:14:21.960
+Mistral. And so that's kind of this new thing
+
+00:14:23.860 --> 00:14:24.240
+on the scene that happened after I recorded
+
+00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:26.420
+my talk. And I think it's super important to
+
+00:14:28.660 --> 00:14:28.820
+the community and important that we have the
+
+00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:31.120
+opportunity to use that if we want to.
+
+00:14:33.160 --> 00:14:33.660
+Okay, but to answer the actual question,
+
+00:14:37.660 --> 00:14:38.100
+there has been some talk about the problems
+
+00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:40.840
+with URL retrieve in the URL package in
+
+00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:42.700
+general in EmacsDevEl.
+
+00:14:46.760 --> 00:14:47.080
+It's not great. I would like to have better
+
+00:14:50.900 --> 00:14:51.040
+primitives. And I've asked the author of
+
+00:14:54.060 --> 00:14:54.560
+Please PLZ to kind of provide some necessary
+
+00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:56.620
+callbacks. I think that's a great library.
+
+00:15:00.280 --> 00:15:00.360
+And I'd like to see that kind of like,
+
+00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:01.680
+It's nice that we have options,
+
+00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:03.520
+and that is an option that uses curl on the
+
+00:15:05.140 --> 00:15:05.640
+back end, and that has some benefits.
+
+00:15:09.060 --> 00:15:09.280
+So there's this big debate about whether we
+
+00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:11.100
+should have primitives or just use curl.
+
+00:15:13.340 --> 00:15:13.420
+I'm not exactly sure what the right call is,
+
+00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:15.820
+but there has been discussions about this.
+
+00:15:19.540 --> 00:15:20.040
+[Speaker 1]: Excellent. And someone commented that GPTEL
+
+00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:22.200
+is async and apparently very good at tracking
+
+00:15:22.300 --> 00:15:22.800
+the point.
+
+00:15:26.680 --> 00:15:27.180
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, yes, GPTEL has similar functionalities
+
+00:15:29.800 --> 00:15:30.040
+to LLM, although I believe it's going to move
+
+00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:33.540
+to LLM itself sometime soon.
+
+00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:39.860
+[Speaker 1]: Next question, speaking of which,
+
+00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:42.560
+anyone trained or fine-tuned or prompted a
+
+00:15:44.680 --> 00:15:44.760
+model with their org data yet and applied it
+
+00:15:46.560 --> 00:15:47.040
+to interesting use cases like planning,
+
+00:15:47.920 --> 00:15:48.340
+scheduling, et cetera,
+
+00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:49.820
+and maybe care to comment?
+
+00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:55.120
+[Speaker 0]: I don't know anyone who is doing that.
+
+00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:56.360
+I think it is interesting.
+
+00:15:57.800 --> 00:15:58.300
+Like this is what I kind of mentioned at the
+
+00:16:01.060 --> 00:16:01.300
+very end of the talk. There is a lot of stuff
+
+00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:02.540
+there like you could you know if you
+
+00:16:04.760 --> 00:16:04.920
+especially mean an LLM can kind of work as
+
+00:16:07.940 --> 00:16:08.160
+sort of like a secretary kind of person that
+
+00:16:12.180 --> 00:16:12.440
+could help you prioritize Still it's a
+
+00:16:14.760 --> 00:16:14.920
+slightly unclear how what the best way to use
+
+00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:16.720
+it is So I think there's more of a question
+
+00:16:18.340 --> 00:16:18.480
+for the community about like what people have
+
+00:16:21.140 --> 00:16:21.320
+been trying. I see someone has mentioned that
+
+00:16:23.400 --> 00:16:23.900
+they are using it for weekly review.
+
+00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:27.180
+And it's kind of nice to like,
+
+00:16:29.060 --> 00:16:29.380
+maybe you could read your agenda or maybe
+
+00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:30.780
+this for like weekly review.
+
+00:16:32.040 --> 00:16:32.240
+It could like read all the stuff you've done
+
+00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:33.480
+and ask you questions about it.
+
+00:16:35.020 --> 00:16:35.280
+And like, what should happen next?
+
+00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:36.780
+Or like, is this going to cause a problem?
+
+00:16:39.060 --> 00:16:39.280
+Like, I can, I can understand if that could
+
+00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:41.180
+happen? That's like, that's kind of nice.
+
+00:16:43.660 --> 00:16:44.160
+And this kind of people have had good success
+
+00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:48.760
+out of using these LLMs to bounce ideas off
+
+00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:50.420
+of are, you know, for,
+
+00:16:52.680 --> 00:16:52.800
+you know, I've seen people say that like they
+
+00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:55.600
+want, they use it for reading and they kind
+
+00:16:58.520 --> 00:16:58.740
+of dialogue with the LM to kind of like do
+
+00:16:59.500 --> 00:17:00.000
+sort of active reading.
+
+00:17:02.500 --> 00:17:02.860
+So you can imagine doing something similar
+
+00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:04.740
+with your tasks where it's sort of you're
+
+00:17:06.560 --> 00:17:06.760
+engaged in dialogue about like planning your
+
+00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:09.000
+tax with some with a alum that could kind of
+
+00:17:10.800 --> 00:17:11.180
+understand what those are and ask you some
+
+00:17:13.780 --> 00:17:13.940
+questions I think it. You know,
+
+00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:17.040
+if it'd be nice. So, the problem is like
+
+00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:18.980
+there's no great way to share all this stuff.
+
+00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:21.220
+I guess if you have something like this,
+
+00:17:23.300 --> 00:17:23.720
+put it on Reddit. If you don't have Reddit,
+
+00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:24.880
+I don't know what to do.
+
+00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:26.500
+I would say put it somewhere.
+
+00:17:28.840 --> 00:17:29.020
+At the very least, I could maybe open up like
+
+00:17:31.320 --> 00:17:31.820
+an LLM discussion session on the LLM package
+
+00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:34.500
+GitHub, But not everyone likes to use GitHub.
+
+00:17:36.100 --> 00:17:36.180
+I don't know. It'd be nice if there's a
+
+00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:39.060
+mailing list or IRC chat for this sort of
+
+00:17:40.840 --> 00:17:41.340
+thing. But there isn't at the moment.
+
+00:17:46.560 --> 00:17:46.720
+[Speaker 1]: All right. Let's see. I think that's the end
+
+00:17:48.080 --> 00:17:48.580
+of the questions on the pad so far.
+
+00:17:51.020 --> 00:17:51.180
+There was also some discussion or some
+
+00:17:52.260 --> 00:17:52.760
+chatter, I believe, on IRC.
+
+00:17:54.560 --> 00:17:54.820
+I'm not sure. Andrew, are you on IRC right
+
+00:18:00.060 --> 00:18:00.260
+[Speaker 0]: I am, but I don't think I'm on any place that
+
+00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:01.640
+has the chatter. So if there's chatter,
+
+00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:02.940
+then I'm not seeing it.
+
+00:18:04.600 --> 00:18:05.100
+[Speaker 1]: now? Okay. Yeah, it was in the emacsconf-dev
+
+00:18:06.760 --> 00:18:07.260
+channel.
+
+00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:10.100
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, let me see if I can.
+
+00:18:25.600 --> 00:18:25.840
+Oh, yes. I mean, I could see the channel,
+
+00:18:27.520 --> 00:18:27.840
+but I missed whatever came before.
+
+00:18:29.340 --> 00:18:29.480
+So if there's anything you want to kind of
+
+00:18:30.840 --> 00:18:31.340
+call out, I can try to answer it here.
+
+00:18:35.320 --> 00:18:35.640
+[Speaker 1]: OK, cool. I believe at least 2 other folks
+
+00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:38.000
+who are participating in the discussion there
+
+00:18:40.120 --> 00:18:40.620
+who have also joined here on BigBlueButton,
+
+00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:42.940
+Codin Quark and AeonTurn92.
+
+00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:47.480
+So you folks, if Andrew is still available
+
+00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:50.640
+and has time, you're welcome to chat here and
+
+00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:53.320
+ask questions or discuss here as well.
+
+00:18:55.580 --> 00:18:55.840
+[Speaker 0]: 1 Thank you. Thank you for your help,
+
+00:18:57.740 --> 00:18:58.080
+and thank you for reading all the questions.
+
+00:18:59.700 --> 00:18:59.820
+[Speaker 1]: AUDIENCE 2 Cheers, and thanks to you for a
+
+00:19:00.540 --> 00:19:01.040
+great talk and the discussion.
+
+00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:02.380
+[Speaker 0]: AUDIENCE AUDIENCE 1 Thank you.
+
+00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:03.640
+[Speaker 1]: AUDIENCE 2 Cheers.
+
+00:19:07.900 --> 00:19:08.040
+[Speaker 0]: So I'll just, I will wait here and see if
+
+00:19:08.320 --> 00:19:08.760
+there's any questions.
+
+00:19:10.760 --> 00:19:11.260
+If not, I will log off after a few minutes.
+
+00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:16.080
+[Speaker 2]: Well, I guess since we were mentioned that
+
+00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:18.980
+there was a small chat about local alarms.
+
+00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:23.000
+Because chat dpt is nice,
+
+00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:26.100
+no, but privacy concerns,
+
+00:19:27.380 --> 00:19:27.880
+and it's not free and stuff.
+
+00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:31.500
+Which, so The question is,
+
+00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:37.460
+what is the promise for local models?
+
+00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:40.160
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, so local is definitely...
+
+00:19:41.380 --> 00:19:41.880
+[Speaker 2]: Or at least open source.
+
+00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:46.120
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, so there is a local open source model,
+
+00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:48.460
+Misral, which you could run.
+
+00:19:51.340 --> 00:19:51.840
+The LLM package allows you to use,
+
+00:19:56.120 --> 00:19:56.260
+I think there's 3 kind of local things you
+
+00:19:58.100 --> 00:19:58.440
+could use. Like many of these things,
+
+00:20:00.220 --> 00:20:00.480
+there's like many kind of ways to do the same
+
+00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:04.460
+sort of thing. So LLM is supporting OLAMMA
+
+00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:10.520
+and LLAMMA-CPP. And let's see,
+
+00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:12.740
+1 other. Which 1 is it?
+
+00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:18.700
+And maybe that's it. Maybe the,
+
+00:20:21.820 --> 00:20:21.940
+oh, GPT for all. So each 1 of these kind of
+
+00:20:23.100 --> 00:20:23.600
+has slightly different functionality.
+
+00:20:26.820 --> 00:20:27.180
+For example, I think GPT for all doesn't
+
+00:20:31.780 --> 00:20:32.280
+support embeddings. And I hear that Olama's
+
+00:20:33.740 --> 00:20:34.240
+embeddings are kind of currently broken.
+
+00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:36.420
+But basically they should support everything.
+
+00:20:39.100 --> 00:20:39.600
+And the open source models are,
+
+00:20:43.180 --> 00:20:43.380
+so the local models are reasonably good.
+
+00:20:44.760 --> 00:20:44.900
+Like I don't think you'd use them and be
+
+00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:46.639
+like, what is this horrible nonsense?
+
+00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:50.380
+Like it's, it gives you relatively good
+
+00:20:51.820 --> 00:20:52.120
+results. Like it's not gonna be at the level
+
+00:20:56.060 --> 00:20:56.320
+of like GPT 3.5 or 4, but it's not far away
+
+00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:58.220
+from GPT 3.5, I think.
+
+00:21:02.380 --> 00:21:02.880
+[Speaker 2]: I'm just saying that Olam has like a presets
+
+00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:06.300
+for connecting the actual working servers for
+
+00:21:06.300 --> 00:21:06.800
+Olama?
+
+00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:08.760
+[Speaker 0]: So, I'll try. Yeah, so you could,
+
+00:21:09.860 --> 00:21:10.040
+what you could do is you could like for
+
+00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:12.100
+example you could download Olama which is
+
+00:21:15.780 --> 00:21:15.940
+just a way of setting up local models and
+
+00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:17.780
+running local models on your machine.
+
+00:21:18.580 --> 00:21:18.820
+So typically what it does,
+
+00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:20.020
+you like download a program,
+
+00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:23.800
+let's say Olama. Then Olama will have the
+
+00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:25.440
+ability to download models.
+
+00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:27.360
+And so you could choose from just a host of
+
+00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:29.440
+different models. Each 1 of these things has
+
+00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:30.440
+a bunch of different models.
+
+00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:32.080
+So it downloads all these things to your
+
+00:21:36.600 --> 00:21:37.020
+machine. But I would say that the key problem
+
+00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:40.580
+here is that it requires a fairly beefy
+
+00:21:40.580 --> 00:21:41.080
+machine.
+
+00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:43.100
+[Speaker 2]: So. Yeah, yeah, of course.
+
+00:21:45.060 --> 00:21:45.300
+Why I was asking, because you briefly
+
+00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:46.880
+mentioned that there are some Israeli
+
+00:21:52.300 --> 00:21:52.440
+servers. I understand that they run it like a
+
+00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:54.000
+government or stuff like that?
+
+00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:55.940
+No, no, sorry. People want everyone?
+
+00:21:59.340 --> 00:21:59.620
+[Speaker 0]: I don't, I mean, maybe you've said something
+
+00:22:00.620 --> 00:22:01.020
+that sounded like Israeli servers.
+
+00:22:01.620 --> 00:22:02.120
+[Speaker 2]: Okay, okay.
+
+00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.080
+[Speaker 0]: I think- There's no government LLMs as far as
+
+00:22:06.820 --> 00:22:07.280
+I know. Although, I'm sure the governments
+
+00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:08.700
+are working on their own LLMs,
+
+00:22:10.980 --> 00:22:11.480
+et cetera. But yeah, basically your choices
+
+00:22:15.060 --> 00:22:15.220
+are spend a, I mean, if you use open AI or
+
+00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:16.580
+something or anything else,
+
+00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:18.460
+you're really not spending any money.
+
+00:22:20.560 --> 00:22:20.840
+Like I've never been able to spend any money
+
+00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:24.020
+on OpenAI. Like unless you're doing something
+
+00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:26.280
+very intensive and really are using it to,
+
+00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:28.180
+you know, if you're using it for your
+
+00:22:29.620 --> 00:22:29.780
+personal use, it's just hard to spend any
+
+00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:31.960
+money. But on the other hand,
+
+00:22:32.780 --> 00:22:32.860
+it's not free. So you can,
+
+00:22:33.040 --> 00:22:33.540
+you know,
+
+00:22:36.300 --> 00:22:36.680
+[Speaker 2]: Actually, it's rather cheap.
+
+00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:38.180
+There's no question about that.
+
+00:22:40.580 --> 00:22:40.920
+The problem is that it has a bad track record
+
+00:22:41.580 --> 00:22:42.080
+on privacy.
+
+00:22:45.540 --> 00:22:46.040
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, that's, I think that is a key problem.
+
+00:22:48.120 --> 00:22:48.280
+This is probably the number 1 reason why you
+
+00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:52.340
+might want to use a local AI,
+
+00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:55.220
+a local LLM. Another 1 is like,
+
+00:22:57.400 --> 00:22:57.900
+you may not agree with the decisions.
+
+00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:00.820
+You know, there's a lot of trust and safety
+
+00:23:05.140 --> 00:23:05.440
+stuff that these companies have to do.
+
+00:23:09.020 --> 00:23:09.240
+Like they don't want like the LMs to kind of
+
+00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:11.640
+like give you, like tell you how you can make
+
+00:23:13.180 --> 00:23:13.580
+meth or how you can make a bomb,
+
+00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:15.460
+which they would do. They would totally do
+
+00:23:19.580 --> 00:23:20.080
+it. So, But each time you kind of restrict
+
+00:23:22.540 --> 00:23:22.680
+what is happening with what you can get out
+
+00:23:23.860 --> 00:23:24.360
+of the LM, it gets a little worse.
+
+00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:25.440
+So some people
+
+00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:27.540
+[Speaker 2]: want to have local. That's expected.
+
+00:23:31.080 --> 00:23:31.400
+I guess even open source language modules
+
+00:23:33.540 --> 00:23:34.040
+will soon have HR spaces because it's simply
+
+00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:35.220
+a legal issue.
+
+00:23:40.760 --> 00:23:41.140
+[Speaker 0]: I think that's true. I also think that there
+
+00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:43.040
+probably will be, although I don't know of
+
+00:23:45.060 --> 00:23:45.300
+any offhand, that will are completely
+
+00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:47.200
+uncensored. I know people are interested and
+
+00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:48.480
+are running uncensored models.
+
+00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:49.940
+I don't know how to do it.
+
+00:23:52.280 --> 00:23:52.780
+I think it's a little bit dubious,
+
+00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:55.040
+but some people do want to do it.
+
+00:23:56.280 --> 00:23:56.780
+There's another reason for using local
+
+00:24:02.280 --> 00:24:02.780
+servers. Do you have any recommendation for
+
+00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:05.720
+models to run locally and also comments on
+
+00:24:06.780 --> 00:24:07.280
+whether a GPU is required?
+
+00:24:14.040 --> 00:24:14.160
+Usually a GPU, well, you can run it without a
+
+00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:17.460
+GPU, but it does run much better.
+
+00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:19.980
+Like for example, I think when I used,
+
+00:24:22.560 --> 00:24:23.060
+Lama is sort of like a standard.
+
+00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:27.320
+This was the model for that Facebook came out
+
+00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:31.880
+with for local use. And It was,
+
+00:24:37.260 --> 00:24:37.760
+yeah, it's good. It's,
+
+00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:40.900
+but it's now it's I think,
+
+00:24:44.620 --> 00:24:44.920
+Mistral is kind of like has a better
+
+00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:46.800
+performance, But there's also different model
+
+00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:51.500
+sizes. There's 7B, like the Lama 7B is OK.
+
+00:24:52.940 --> 00:24:53.440
+The Mistral 7B, 7 billion,
+
+00:24:54.800 --> 00:24:55.300
+are like, basically it'll take like,
+
+00:24:58.380 --> 00:24:58.880
+you can run it with like 16 gigs of RAM,
+
+00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.040
+is pretty good. It's probably about as equal
+
+00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:07.000
+to the LLAMA13B. Those are the number of
+
+00:25:08.360 --> 00:25:08.860
+parameters, if I remember correctly.
+
+00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:11.180
+And then there's a 7B,
+
+00:25:12.340 --> 00:25:12.840
+which I've never been able to run.
+
+00:25:16.120 --> 00:25:16.620
+And even if the 7B, if you run it without a
+
+00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:20.140
+GPU, it takes quite a while to answer.
+
+00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:22.580
+I think I've had experiences where it took
+
+00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:24.440
+literally like several,
+
+00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:26.780
+like 5 minutes before it even started
+
+00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:29.100
+responding, but you do eventually get
+
+00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:32.580
+something. And it could be that like things
+
+00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:33.960
+have gotten better since the last time I
+
+00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:35.940
+tried this, because things are moving fast.
+
+00:25:38.360 --> 00:25:38.860
+But it is super recommended to have a GPU.
+
+00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:42.620
+This is the problem. It's kind of like,
+
+00:25:43.840 --> 00:25:44.180
+yes, free software is great.
+
+00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:47.120
+But if free software is requiring that you
+
+00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:50.760
+have these kind of beefy servers and have all
+
+00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:52.500
+this hardware, that's not great.
+
+00:25:53.600 --> 00:25:54.100
+I think there's a case to be made.
+
+00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:56.180
+[Speaker 1]: a hardware
+
+00:25:59.040 --> 00:25:59.540
+[Speaker 0]: with slots instead of a laptop.
+
+00:26:01.560 --> 00:26:02.060
+Yeah, yeah, that's right.
+
+00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:03.960
+[Speaker 2]: Ideally, you can have Ideally,
+
+00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:07.660
+it would be nice if FSL for all things could
+
+00:26:12.040 --> 00:26:12.540
+run something for open source model.
+
+00:26:16.320 --> 00:26:16.640
+And not free, but the key point is that it's
+
+00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:17.140
+Libre?
+
+00:26:22.580 --> 00:26:23.080
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, so actually I think Google does do that.
+
+00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:24.800
+I'll have to look it up,
+
+00:26:27.560 --> 00:26:27.820
+but I haven't explored this yet.
+
+00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:31.720
+But Google's server, which LLM does support,
+
+00:26:33.800 --> 00:26:34.300
+supports arbitrary models.
+
+00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:36.600
+So you can run LLMA or things like that.
+
+00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:39.200
+The problem is that even if you're running
+
+00:26:40.320 --> 00:26:40.820
+Mistral, which has no restrictions.
+
+00:26:42.940 --> 00:26:43.140
+So this is the kind of thing that like the
+
+00:26:44.900 --> 00:26:45.060
+Free Software Foundation cares a lot about.
+
+00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:47.740
+Like you want it to be like no restrictions,
+
+00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:49.840
+legal restrictions on you as you run the
+
+00:26:52.080 --> 00:26:52.580
+model. So even if it's running Mistral,
+
+00:26:54.800 --> 00:26:55.300
+just by using the server,
+
+00:26:58.460 --> 00:26:58.660
+the company server, it will impose some
+
+00:26:59.440 --> 00:26:59.900
+restrictions on you probably,
+
+00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:02.480
+right? There's gonna be some license that you
+
+00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:05.260
+have to, or something you have to abide by.
+
+00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:08.600
+So I think, yes, it depends on how much you
+
+00:27:09.280 --> 00:27:09.780
+care about it, I guess.
+
+00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:19.640
+I should find out more about that and make
+
+00:27:21.580 --> 00:27:22.080
+sure that it's a good point that I should,
+
+00:27:23.980 --> 00:27:24.180
+you know, people should be able to run free
+
+00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:26.280
+models over the server.
+
+00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:28.440
+So I should make sure we support that in the
+
+00:27:40.360 --> 00:27:40.860
+LLM package. So, is there any other questions
+
+00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:48.740
+Or is otherwise we can end the session.
+
+00:28:00.800 --> 00:28:01.040
+Yeah, all right. Thank you.
+
+00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:02.940
+Thank you. Thank you everyone who listened.
+
+00:28:04.540 --> 00:28:05.040
+I'm super happy like I,
+
+00:28:06.560 --> 00:28:07.060
+the interest is great.
+
+00:28:08.900 --> 00:28:09.220
+I think there's great stuff to be done here
+
+00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:11.140
+and I'm kind of super excited what we're
+
+00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:12.160
+going to do in the next year,
+
+00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:13.440
+so hopefully, like next year,
+
+00:28:14.600 --> 00:28:14.760
+and the conference we have something even
+
+00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:16.560
+more exciting to say about LLM and how they
+
+00:28:17.320 --> 00:28:17.820
+can be used with Emacs.
+
+00:28:19.620 --> 00:28:20.120
+So thank
+
+00:28:30.060 --> 00:28:30.560
+you
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-lspocaml--writing-a-language-server-in-ocaml-for-emacs-fun-and-profit--austin-theriault--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-lspocaml--writing-a-language-server-in-ocaml-for-emacs-fun-and-profit--austin-theriault--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..277f3dd1
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-lspocaml--writing-a-language-server-in-ocaml-for-emacs-fun-and-profit--austin-theriault--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1019 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:03.540 --> 00:00:03.939
+[Speaker 0]: I would invite all on the,
+
+00:00:04.600 --> 00:00:04.960
+who are currently watching,
+
+00:00:06.819 --> 00:00:07.200
+who have questions, put them into the pad
+
+00:00:08.940 --> 00:00:09.440
+that I can ask them. I'm kind of monitoring
+
+00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:16.720
+the IRC concurrently. So the first question
+
+00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:18.800
+that we have on the pad is concerning why you
+
+00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:20.100
+have switched from OCaml.
+
+00:00:22.420 --> 00:00:22.800
+Maybe the person has missed it in the talk,
+
+00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:23.980
+if you've mentioned it.
+
+00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:25.320
+Why have you switched from OCaml to,
+
+00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:26.180
+in this case, I guess,
+
+00:00:26.180 --> 00:00:26.680
+Rust?
+
+00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:31.080
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I mentioned like with writing a
+
+00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:34.440
+language server that I wrote mine for my
+
+00:00:36.900 --> 00:00:37.120
+company in OCaml But I wouldn't recommend it
+
+00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:39.220
+just in general unless like you're doing
+
+00:00:41.720 --> 00:00:42.040
+something specific with OCaml And the reason
+
+00:00:44.180 --> 00:00:44.340
+for that and I recommended Rust or like
+
+00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:46.100
+TypeScript is like OCaml is great.
+
+00:00:49.080 --> 00:00:49.360
+It's very performant but it's cross
+
+00:00:50.739 --> 00:00:51.100
+compilation story is not great.
+
+00:00:54.100 --> 00:00:54.340
+It's like really hard to cross compile like
+
+00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:56.320
+from 1 platform to another.
+
+00:00:58.120 --> 00:00:58.540
+And then like the ecosystem and its standard
+
+00:01:00.380 --> 00:01:00.880
+library is also not great.
+
+00:01:03.460 --> 00:01:03.640
+And like Rust, its cross compilation is
+
+00:01:05.820 --> 00:01:06.320
+great. Its ecosystem is great.
+
+00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:09.060
+OCaml is great if you need to use it,
+
+00:01:10.880 --> 00:01:11.380
+but it's just it's not ideal.
+
+00:01:14.220 --> 00:01:14.340
+And there's just also no good examples of a
+
+00:01:15.240 --> 00:01:15.740
+language server in OCaml.
+
+00:01:19.119 --> 00:01:19.619
+There's the official like OCaml language
+
+00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:23.420
+server, But they use a ton of super advanced
+
+00:01:27.380 --> 00:01:27.540
+language features, like module functors and a
+
+00:01:28.440 --> 00:01:28.700
+bunch of other random stuff.
+
+00:01:29.479 --> 00:01:29.979
+So it's not really readable.
+
+00:01:31.860 --> 00:01:32.300
+But Rust, there's Rust analyzer,
+
+00:01:33.340 --> 00:01:33.780
+which is readable. In TypeScript,
+
+00:01:34.860 --> 00:01:35.360
+there's like a million different ones.
+
+00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:39.660
+So it's less of a, not OCaml is like,
+
+00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:41.280
+it's not that OCaml isn't great.
+
+00:01:43.320 --> 00:01:43.440
+It's more of a, these other languages would
+
+00:01:44.160 --> 00:01:44.660
+probably just be easier.
+
+00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:45.780
+So.
+
+00:01:48.619 --> 00:01:48.920
+[Speaker 0]: I guess since the integration to,
+
+00:01:50.820 --> 00:01:51.000
+for example, like NeoVim or some other
+
+00:01:53.320 --> 00:01:53.460
+editors are just revenue fine because of the
+
+00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:57.420
+[Speaker 1]: Sorry, can you say that again?
+
+00:01:58.580 --> 00:01:59.080
+[Speaker 0]: LSP, I guess. The LSP,
+
+00:02:01.979 --> 00:02:02.100
+so it's a standard LSP specification that
+
+00:02:03.080 --> 00:02:03.400
+you're using. So you can also,
+
+00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:05.340
+for instance, use it and other editors,
+
+00:02:06.660 --> 00:02:07.160
+like for instance, new them or so.
+
+00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:08.940
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. Yeah. You can use it.
+
+00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:11.920
+It's most, most editors nowadays support it.
+
+00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:13.780
+Like obviously Emacs, NeoVim,
+
+00:02:16.420 --> 00:02:16.840
+Sublime, VS code, Intel,
+
+00:02:17.700 --> 00:02:18.200
+all the IntelliJ ones.
+
+00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:21.960
+So yeah, that's, that's the fun part.
+
+00:02:23.440 --> 00:02:23.760
+You don't have to write 10 different
+
+00:02:26.500 --> 00:02:27.000
+languages to get a bunch of editor support.
+
+00:02:30.200 --> 00:02:30.300
+[Speaker 0]: Also experience writing it.
+
+00:02:33.820 --> 00:02:34.040
+So I didn't have really time to hear into
+
+00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:36.560
+your talk. So I'm sorry if I ask you
+
+00:02:38.100 --> 00:02:38.600
+questions that you have already said.
+
+00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:41.900
+How was the experience of writing an LSP?
+
+00:02:44.340 --> 00:02:44.480
+So have you any knowledge beforehand or do
+
+00:02:45.600 --> 00:02:46.100
+you just read it all on yourself?
+
+00:02:49.200 --> 00:02:49.700
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, there's not a ton of documentation,
+
+00:02:53.440 --> 00:02:53.940
+which is what motivated me to do this talk.
+
+00:02:56.380 --> 00:02:56.580
+Basically, I just looked at the
+
+00:02:58.820 --> 00:02:58.980
+specification, and I knew Rust Analyzer was
+
+00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:00.740
+cool. And so I looked at Rust Analyzer,
+
+00:03:01.600 --> 00:03:02.100
+and I looked at PyRite.
+
+00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:04.700
+And I just went from there.
+
+00:03:07.920 --> 00:03:08.420
+I found out about all this because I already
+
+00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:10.440
+using Emacs, I already knew about it.
+
+00:03:12.160 --> 00:03:12.660
+I was like, this is going to be easier than
+
+00:03:15.020 --> 00:03:15.480
+something else. So yeah,
+
+00:03:17.720 --> 00:03:18.220
+there's the experience is fine.
+
+00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:21.300
+It's just a lot of wiring stuff up.
+
+00:03:24.100 --> 00:03:24.320
+It's not a lot of like hard thinking until
+
+00:03:26.200 --> 00:03:26.700
+you get to like performance heavy stuff.
+
+00:03:27.740 --> 00:03:28.080
+Like, so for some graph,
+
+00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:31.260
+like we're doing a ton of like code parsing
+
+00:03:32.980 --> 00:03:33.480
+and like analyzing. And so that's,
+
+00:03:35.760 --> 00:03:36.260
+it takes up like a ton of processing power.
+
+00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:37.600
+So like for stuff like that,
+
+00:03:39.620 --> 00:03:39.840
+like now you have to think about caching and
+
+00:03:43.980 --> 00:03:44.380
+like ordering things. So that part's hard,
+
+00:03:47.180 --> 00:03:47.420
+but that's more of a, like very much
+
+00:03:48.640 --> 00:03:49.140
+application specific thing.
+
+00:03:58.320 --> 00:03:58.620
+[Speaker 0]: Right. Anything in the IRC chat.
+
+00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:02.340
+I think not. It's nothing I can see.
+
+00:04:13.380 --> 00:04:13.520
+No questions, that's kind of odd to be
+
+00:04:17.440 --> 00:04:17.860
+honest. I cannot really ask questions
+
+00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:19.180
+concerning LSP specific.
+
+00:04:22.400 --> 00:04:22.900
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, no worries.
+
+00:04:31.460 --> 00:04:31.960
+[Speaker 0]: Good question, what could be asked?
+
+00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:36.140
+Let's call, let's ask something very
+
+00:04:38.260 --> 00:04:38.680
+unspecific concerning the Emacs usage.
+
+00:04:39.340 --> 00:04:39.760
+And when have you started?
+
+00:04:41.580 --> 00:04:41.780
+How did you came through it and stuff like
+
+00:04:41.780 --> 00:04:42.280
+this?
+
+00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:46.960
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. I like and when I was in high school,
+
+00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:48.980
+me and my friends just were like,
+
+00:04:51.820 --> 00:04:52.320
+got obsessed with Linux for whatever reason.
+
+00:04:53.940 --> 00:04:54.140
+And then like we traveled down like the,
+
+00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:56.060
+like the free software,
+
+00:04:57.700 --> 00:04:57.940
+like we just thought that was like very
+
+00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:00.160
+entertaining and like interesting to read
+
+00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:01.700
+about all the free software stuff.
+
+00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:03.480
+They were like, yeah, that's cool.
+
+00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.040
+And so we all started using Linux.
+
+00:05:06.960 --> 00:05:07.200
+And I'm like, well, if I'm using free
+
+00:05:08.300 --> 00:05:08.740
+software, I'm going to use Emacs.
+
+00:05:12.280 --> 00:05:12.440
+And so I started using Emacs just to try it
+
+00:05:13.940 --> 00:05:14.440
+out. And then I kind of got,
+
+00:05:16.880 --> 00:05:17.380
+I feel like, Stockholm syndrome into it.
+
+00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:19.220
+And now I've realized like,
+
+00:05:21.860 --> 00:05:22.360
+I don't know, now that I've done the like
+
+00:05:23.880 --> 00:05:24.340
+actual work to get into Emacs,
+
+00:05:26.280 --> 00:05:26.480
+it's just, there's so much more I can do with
+
+00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:30.800
+it. But yeah, it was somewhat unintentional.
+
+00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:36.420
+[Speaker 0]: I probably have the same course I've started
+
+00:05:37.780 --> 00:05:38.280
+like 2 years ago using Emacs.
+
+00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:42.940
+And also just, oh, there's at first some cool
+
+00:05:45.020 --> 00:05:45.340
+people on YouTube, so systems crafters and
+
+00:05:46.300 --> 00:05:46.800
+people like this. And also,
+
+00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:49.740
+ah, VS Code, I used a lot of VS Code
+
+00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:53.860
+beforehand and then VS Codium because open
+
+00:05:55.640 --> 00:05:55.860
+source and then oh are there any other
+
+00:05:58.020 --> 00:05:58.180
+alternatives and I came to like Neovim and
+
+00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:01.440
+Emacs and often switching around but I stick
+
+00:06:03.220 --> 00:06:03.720
+to Emacs at some point to be honest.
+
+00:06:07.180 --> 00:06:07.540
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think Emacs also just looks really
+
+00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:09.000
+cool. I will say that.
+
+00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:14.640
+And also just like I like Vim.
+
+00:06:16.960 --> 00:06:17.240
+Vim is cool but like being able to like write
+
+00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:19.540
+lists and like modify your editor on the fly
+
+00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:21.420
+is just like very appealing to me.
+
+00:06:23.860 --> 00:06:24.140
+I don't know, Emacs was tough at first
+
+00:06:25.520 --> 00:06:25.680
+because like all the like default key
+
+00:06:28.380 --> 00:06:28.440
+bindings are just kind of like and then and
+
+00:06:29.860 --> 00:06:30.040
+then I read somewhere someone was like yeah
+
+00:06:33.220 --> 00:06:33.460
+well Richard Stallman uses evil mode so it's
+
+00:06:36.220 --> 00:06:36.460
+okay. I was like alright I can that's like
+
+00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:38.200
+blessing enough for me Like I'm just gonna
+
+00:06:39.520 --> 00:06:39.720
+switch to evil mode. And I was like,
+
+00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:42.360
+this is way, way better as far as key
+
+00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:43.420
+bindings go.
+
+00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:47.020
+[Speaker 0]: Kind of relates. So I switched for,
+
+00:06:49.900 --> 00:06:50.040
+I think, half a year to the default key
+
+00:06:51.300 --> 00:06:51.800
+bindings from Vim beforehand.
+
+00:06:54.960 --> 00:06:55.240
+I switched back to Evil and now I'm losing
+
+00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:56.600
+some kind of hybrid styles.
+
+00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:01.120
+It's kind of weird. But we have a question on
+
+00:07:03.260 --> 00:07:03.700
+the pad. So what are the corner cases,
+
+00:07:05.380 --> 00:07:05.880
+limitations, and other issues you encountered
+
+00:07:08.860 --> 00:07:09.020
+in implementing an LSP server with client in
+
+00:07:09.940 --> 00:07:10.440
+Emacs that were surprising?
+
+00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:13.860
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I would say the corner cases and
+
+00:07:15.280 --> 00:07:15.780
+limitations are definitely like,
+
+00:07:16.960 --> 00:07:17.220
+once again, they're going to be very
+
+00:07:18.960 --> 00:07:19.160
+application specific, but it's usually just
+
+00:07:22.420 --> 00:07:22.680
+the performance part. So like I was saying
+
+00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:24.900
+before, right, in general if you're doing
+
+00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:26.620
+language tooling, you're gonna be doing
+
+00:07:29.760 --> 00:07:30.080
+either parsing or interpreting or something
+
+00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:31.880
+like that, which is very just like
+
+00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:35.080
+computationally heavy and so if you're trying
+
+00:07:36.900 --> 00:07:37.060
+to like do that stuff while someone is
+
+00:07:38.520 --> 00:07:39.000
+editing a file right like every keystrokes
+
+00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:42.840
+every like 1 to 2 seconds if they have a fast
+
+00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:44.540
+computer that's great but a lot of people
+
+00:07:46.400 --> 00:07:46.560
+don't have like that fast of a computer that
+
+00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:49.740
+they can go and like do compilation every
+
+00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:52.180
+single keystroke. So like,
+
+00:07:54.080 --> 00:07:54.580
+I would say, I would say the like limitation
+
+00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:57.080
+is just how fast your computer is and how
+
+00:07:59.140 --> 00:07:59.340
+good you are at like implementing caching for
+
+00:08:01.020 --> 00:08:01.520
+like whatever you're doing.
+
+00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:04.280
+That's also just the main issues I've run
+
+00:08:08.080 --> 00:08:08.580
+into is just it's a constant uphill battle.
+
+00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:12.560
+People will somehow find larger and larger
+
+00:08:14.580 --> 00:08:15.080
+files. You'll end up with files that are like
+
+00:08:17.320 --> 00:08:17.680
+thousands, like tens of thousands of lines
+
+00:08:18.700 --> 00:08:18.940
+long and you think yeah,
+
+00:08:21.340 --> 00:08:21.840
+surely no 1 would expect like instantaneous
+
+00:08:25.440 --> 00:08:25.640
+response for like like editing a file that
+
+00:08:26.820 --> 00:08:27.040
+has like tens of thousands of lines,
+
+00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:30.180
+but then they do. As far as corner cases go,
+
+00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:32.459
+I would say the corner case is like,
+
+00:08:37.760 --> 00:08:37.919
+just in general is actually distributing the
+
+00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:41.200
+language server. Cause like writing the
+
+00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:42.840
+language server is fine.
+
+00:08:44.540 --> 00:08:44.900
+Like wiring everything up is fine.
+
+00:08:47.180 --> 00:08:47.300
+But then like, once you actually have to go
+
+00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:48.120
+and distribute it, well,
+
+00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:49.700
+now you're distributing in a binary.
+
+00:08:51.660 --> 00:08:52.160
+Like I was saying before with OCaml,
+
+00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:54.440
+doesn't have great cross compilation.
+
+00:08:58.840 --> 00:08:59.340
+So for some graph for our language server,
+
+00:09:01.560 --> 00:09:02.060
+we target Linux and Mac OS,
+
+00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:04.340
+and we have a ton of people who use Windows,
+
+00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:07.440
+but compiling OCaml for Windows is basically
+
+00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:10.440
+impossible. So our corner case there,
+
+00:09:11.980 --> 00:09:12.480
+the way we solved it was now we're
+
+00:09:14.160 --> 00:09:14.660
+transpiling OCaml to JavaScript,
+
+00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:17.560
+which is a huge can of worms.
+
+00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:19.040
+Like it's a lot of fun.
+
+00:09:19.400 --> 00:09:19.900
+It's very interesting,
+
+00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:23.360
+but like it's not ideal.
+
+00:09:24.340 --> 00:09:24.720
+And so that's what I was saying before.
+
+00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:26.580
+I recommend like Rust or TypeScript because
+
+00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:29.820
+those are way more portable and a lot easier
+
+00:09:31.280 --> 00:09:31.780
+to install. And you don't have to worry about
+
+00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:34.100
+any of that weird packaging stuff.
+
+00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:38.080
+So yeah, I would say that's like the main
+
+00:09:40.260 --> 00:09:40.760
+corner case and the main limitation is just
+
+00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:42.220
+speed and caching.
+
+00:09:47.160 --> 00:09:47.640
+[Speaker 0]: You mentioned this obscure large file so
+
+00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:49.160
+someone doesn't want to refactor or
+
+00:09:51.760 --> 00:09:52.200
+something. How did you start?
+
+00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:54.620
+So did you have any way to still be
+
+00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:56.580
+relatively performant when they have big
+
+00:09:58.020 --> 00:09:58.520
+files or is it just not supported?
+
+00:09:58.920 --> 00:09:59.420
+I don't care.
+
+00:10:03.140 --> 00:10:03.640
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, no, we, so we support larger files now
+
+00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:05.960
+And the way we ended up doing that,
+
+00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:11.980
+so SemGrep is like you write this generic
+
+00:10:14.540 --> 00:10:14.900
+pattern. You kind of write the language,
+
+00:10:17.160 --> 00:10:17.320
+but then there's these other symbols and
+
+00:10:18.760 --> 00:10:19.160
+stuff that are included in that,
+
+00:10:19.760 --> 00:10:20.260
+this like meta language.
+
+00:10:22.420 --> 00:10:22.580
+And so what happens is,
+
+00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:24.100
+is most languages get,
+
+00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:27.900
+they get parsed and then into a syntax tree,
+
+00:10:29.180 --> 00:10:29.600
+right? Like whatever the language is syntax
+
+00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:31.120
+tree is, and then they get,
+
+00:10:33.800 --> 00:10:34.000
+the syntax tree gets converted into this,
+
+00:10:35.860 --> 00:10:36.360
+like, we call it like an abstract syntax
+
+00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:38.300
+tree, which is like abstract from like any,
+
+00:10:39.860 --> 00:10:40.360
+like languages specific syntax tree.
+
+00:10:41.940 --> 00:10:42.380
+And so then we can cache that,
+
+00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:44.760
+which is really good because like if someone
+
+00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:47.920
+types something like we don't have to go
+
+00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:50.440
+through and do like the full parsing and like
+
+00:10:51.560 --> 00:10:51.760
+converting, we only have to do it
+
+00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:55.200
+incrementally. And so that's,
+
+00:10:56.100 --> 00:10:56.420
+that's how we dealt with that.
+
+00:10:58.140 --> 00:10:58.640
+Or the other option is that we just,
+
+00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:01.180
+we just cache whatever the previous results
+
+00:11:03.460 --> 00:11:03.960
+are, and then run it asynchronously,
+
+00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:05.460
+and they might get it delayed.
+
+00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:08.700
+But we've ended up doing more AST caching,
+
+00:11:09.880 --> 00:11:10.380
+which is fun and cool.
+
+00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:15.900
+[Speaker 0]: Sounds good. So we have here a question from
+
+00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:18.540
+Blaine. If Eaglet is a subset of LSP mode,
+
+00:11:21.680 --> 00:11:21.840
+can EGLOT conflict with LSP mode if both are
+
+00:11:23.400 --> 00:11:23.900
+present in your initial .el
+
+00:11:24.280 --> 00:11:24.780
+file?
+
+00:11:27.740 --> 00:11:28.240
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so I haven't played around with EGLOT
+
+00:11:30.580 --> 00:11:30.960
+mode a ton, so I'm not 100% sure.
+
+00:11:33.920 --> 00:11:34.420
+I think all of the key bindings and commands,
+
+00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:36.820
+if you just install it out of the box,
+
+00:11:39.020 --> 00:11:39.520
+I Think they're different.
+
+00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:41.840
+So I don't think there's like any like
+
+00:11:44.760 --> 00:11:45.040
+overlap as far as that stuff goes but you
+
+00:11:47.520 --> 00:11:47.900
+will have the overlap of like you entered,
+
+00:11:49.780 --> 00:11:49.960
+like you started a major mode for like some
+
+00:11:51.500 --> 00:11:51.720
+language, like they'll both probably start
+
+00:11:53.040 --> 00:11:53.540
+the language server and provide diagnostics
+
+00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:55.580
+and everything. And so then now you're
+
+00:11:58.180 --> 00:11:58.320
+getting like, you're just like doubling the
+
+00:11:59.340 --> 00:11:59.680
+work your computer is doing.
+
+00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:00.980
+So there's that conflict.
+
+00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:04.360
+But if you prefer EGLOT mode or LSP mode for
+
+00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:05.700
+like 1 language or framework,
+
+00:12:09.060 --> 00:12:09.440
+like 1 major mode and LSP mode for the other,
+
+00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:11.100
+I think you should be fine.
+
+00:12:14.680 --> 00:12:14.860
+[Speaker 0]: All right. Just to let you know,
+
+00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:20.640
+we have like 1 minute on the stream and then
+
+00:12:22.540 --> 00:12:23.040
+we'll switch back and to the pre-recorded
+
+00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:24.500
+stuff I guess.
+
+00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:27.740
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah yeah yeah let's hi sorry for the rude
+
+00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:29.620
+interruption but I'm just doing a little bit
+
+00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:32.060
+of time keeping so thank you so much Austin
+
+00:12:34.340 --> 00:12:34.540
+sadly I wasn't able to follow the Q&A because
+
+00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:36.780
+I was in the other track answering questions.
+
+00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:40.360
+If, Austin, you want to stay and answer some
+
+00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:42.080
+more questions, feel free to do so.
+
+00:12:45.920 --> 00:12:46.220
+People tend to start talking as soon as we go
+
+00:12:48.400 --> 00:12:48.740
+off air, And I wouldn't be surprised with LSP
+
+00:12:49.540 --> 00:12:50.040
+that people would do the same.
+
+00:12:52.800 --> 00:12:53.040
+We're gonna move on for this track.
+
+00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:55.040
+We're gonna move on in 20 seconds to the next
+
+00:12:56.920 --> 00:12:57.420
+1. So Floey, thank you for hosting.
+
+00:12:58.680 --> 00:12:59.180
+Austin, thank you for all your answers.
+
+00:13:01.460 --> 00:13:01.960
+And We'll see you in a bit.
+
+00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:05.140
+[Speaker 1]: Cool. Thanks. See you.
+
+00:13:06.700 --> 00:13:07.200
+[Speaker 0]: Thanks for the Q&A.
+
+00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:10.440
+[Speaker 2]: All right. All right. You are now off air.
+
+00:13:11.400 --> 00:13:11.720
+Thank you so much, Austin.
+
+00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:13.200
+I'm going to go back running in the
+
+00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:14.100
+background. And thank you,
+
+00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:15.200
+Flowey, for everything.
+
+00:13:20.900 --> 00:13:21.400
+[Speaker 0]: And thanks. Yeah. Have a nice,
+
+00:13:23.160 --> 00:13:23.660
+probably a nice day at your work.
+
+00:13:24.140 --> 00:13:24.240
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, no worries. Yeah.
+
+00:13:26.380 --> 00:13:26.680
+Yeah, it's still it's like lunchtime for me.
+
+00:13:28.100 --> 00:13:28.600
+[Speaker 0]: So okay, here, it's like,
+
+00:13:34.380 --> 00:13:34.700
+09:00. 9pm. Thanks for the talk.
+
+00:13:36.300 --> 00:13:36.600
+Sorry for the inconvenience was not having
+
+00:13:37.540 --> 00:13:38.040
+any, any questions, really.
+
+00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:39.380
+[Speaker 1]: So yeah. Oh yeah, no worries.
+
+00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:41.280
+It's like, there's like no documentation on
+
+00:13:42.940 --> 00:13:43.380
+any of this stuff. So I didn't really expect
+
+00:13:43.380 --> 00:13:43.880
+any.
+
+00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:47.560
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I was kind of interested when I jumped
+
+00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:51.140
+into NeoVim. I write it 1 or 2 things on my
+
+00:13:53.140 --> 00:13:53.320
+own, but never really got really deep into
+
+00:13:54.520 --> 00:13:54.960
+it. And you're gonna see with like compiler
+
+00:13:55.920 --> 00:13:56.140
+design and stuff like this,
+
+00:13:57.400 --> 00:13:57.900
+but not really specific.
+
+00:13:58.320 --> 00:13:58.820
+So I was
+
+00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:01.240
+[Speaker 1]: kind of- Yeah, that's the hard part.
+
+00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:02.880
+It's like, it's, LSP is cool,
+
+00:14:05.020 --> 00:14:05.200
+but then you have to like deal with all the
+
+00:14:06.760 --> 00:14:07.200
+like compiler stuff and programming language
+
+00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:07.700
+theory.
+
+00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:10.800
+[Speaker 0]: So yeah. So it's, it shouldn't be too
+
+00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:13.660
+complicated. I had not really a question,
+
+00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:15.140
+so, but it worked out fine.
+
+00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:17.000
+Thanks for the Q and A.
+
+00:14:18.560 --> 00:14:19.060
+And if I have any questions to Oak Hamill,
+
+00:14:20.640 --> 00:14:21.140
+Elderspeak will get an email from you.
+
+00:14:21.560 --> 00:14:22.060
+[Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, definitely.
+
+00:14:23.500 --> 00:14:24.000
+[Speaker 0]: Dan?
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3fc25b4e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-mentor--mentoring-vscoders-as-an-emacsian-or-how-to-show-not-tell-people-about-the-wonders-of-emacs--jeremy-friesen--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,4486 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:09.880
+[Speaker 0]: 2 seconds. And I think we are live.
+
+00:00:10.760 --> 00:00:11.260
+Hi, Jeremy, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:11.840 --> 00:00:12.040
+[Speaker 1]: All right. I'm doing all right.
+
+00:00:12.380 --> 00:00:12.880
+How about you?
+
+00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:15.060
+[Speaker 0]: I'm doing great as well.
+
+00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:16.640
+I'm really happy to see all the talk that
+
+00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:19.100
+we're having. And I was particularly excited
+
+00:00:21.880 --> 00:00:22.240
+when I got your proposal for this talk
+
+00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:24.279
+because mentoring, as I was telling you
+
+00:00:25.040 --> 00:00:25.540
+during the check-in process,
+
+00:00:27.360 --> 00:00:27.779
+is a subject dear to my heart.
+
+00:00:28.700 --> 00:00:29.200
+So I'm really excited,
+
+00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:30.920
+not only for the talk that you've just done,
+
+00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:32.360
+but also for the question that people are
+
+00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:33.380
+going to ask you.
+
+00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:36.020
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I'm looking forward to answering some
+
+00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:39.880
+questions. Mentoring is also something near
+
+00:00:43.860 --> 00:00:44.320
+and dear. Something I did not mention is when
+
+00:00:45.620 --> 00:00:45.820
+folks would ask me, like,
+
+00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:47.460
+what was your most important class?
+
+00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:49.199
+Or I said, oh, easy, easy,
+
+00:00:50.180 --> 00:00:50.680
+easy, high school English.
+
+00:00:54.160 --> 00:00:54.480
+Like, it's my whatever your primary written
+
+00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:56.820
+and spoken languages I think is the most
+
+00:00:58.860 --> 00:00:59.360
+useful skill as a programmer
+
+00:01:05.379 --> 00:01:05.580
+[Speaker 0]: right so as usual people if you want to ask
+
+00:01:09.520 --> 00:01:09.660
+questions to Jeremy, feel free to find the
+
+00:01:11.440 --> 00:01:11.940
+link to the other pad either on the talk page
+
+00:01:15.440 --> 00:01:15.720
+or on IRC. We're also going to open the chat
+
+00:01:17.320 --> 00:01:17.720
+so that people can join us and ask questions.
+
+00:01:20.380 --> 00:01:20.660
+Let me just make sure that I tell Sasha can
+
+00:01:25.440 --> 00:01:25.580
+you open ID Mentor. All right so in the
+
+00:01:27.320 --> 00:01:27.520
+meantime what we'll do is that I'll be
+
+00:01:29.660 --> 00:01:29.860
+reading questions of the pad and Jeremy will
+
+00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:31.480
+be answering them whilst we wait for you to
+
+00:01:32.800 --> 00:01:33.280
+join. Now just to be clear with the time,
+
+00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:34.820
+we have a little bit of time now,
+
+00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:36.540
+a little more time than before.
+
+00:01:39.520 --> 00:01:39.720
+We have 22 minutes, so until 10 of the next
+
+00:01:41.260 --> 00:01:41.400
+hours to answer as many questions as
+
+00:01:42.520 --> 00:01:42.900
+possible. And believe me,
+
+00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:45.200
+if you people watching right now are not
+
+00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:47.440
+asking questions, I will be asking plenty of
+
+00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:50.340
+them. So please, save Jeremy from my
+
+00:01:53.800 --> 00:01:54.300
+[Speaker 1]: I look forward to it.
+
+00:01:55.320 --> 00:01:55.820
+[Speaker 0]: inquisitive mind. All right.
+
+00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:57.460
+Starting with the first question,
+
+00:01:59.240 --> 00:01:59.680
+a very trivial 1, perhaps,
+
+00:02:01.720 --> 00:02:01.920
+but always 1 that I ask myself when I look at
+
+00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:04.340
+a keyboard. Regarding super key,
+
+00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:06.480
+which key do you bind to super?
+
+00:02:09.620 --> 00:02:10.120
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so my left command,
+
+00:02:12.180 --> 00:02:12.680
+which is on a Mac keyboard,
+
+00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:17.120
+so the key right to the left of the space bar
+
+00:02:20.860 --> 00:02:21.000
+is super. And the key immediately to the
+
+00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:23.400
+right of spacebar, which is the right command
+
+00:02:24.320 --> 00:02:24.820
+key, is bound to hyper,
+
+00:02:28.140 --> 00:02:28.640
+which opens up a whole new suite of keys.
+
+00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:31.280
+And I thought it would take a little bit to
+
+00:02:33.160 --> 00:02:33.660
+get used to, but it's been amazing.
+
+00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:38.300
+So I definitely recommend having a hyper
+
+00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:38.940
+binding.
+
+00:02:42.440 --> 00:02:42.720
+[Speaker 0]: I will, yes. I was also going to say super
+
+00:02:43.860 --> 00:02:44.160
+binding. No, it's a hyper binding.
+
+00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:45.040
+We already have super.
+
+00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:47.280
+It's your Windows key or your Linux key or
+
+00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:48.740
+whatever you want to call it.
+
+00:02:51.140 --> 00:02:51.640
+But I will warn people though,
+
+00:02:57.720 --> 00:02:58.200
+it's the gateway into fancy keyboard setups
+
+00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:01.400
+because it starts, it's the Trojan horse of
+
+00:03:02.700 --> 00:03:03.140
+fancy keyboard setup. Just,
+
+00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:04.820
+oh I wish I could have another modifier.
+
+00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:07.280
+And then many years later,
+
+00:03:09.160 --> 00:03:09.280
+you find yourself with this little thing that
+
+00:03:11.260 --> 00:03:11.760
+I'm showing, which is a fully customized QMK
+
+00:03:12.100 --> 00:03:12.600
+keyboard.
+
+00:03:13.540 --> 00:03:14.040
+[Speaker 2]: All right.
+
+00:03:18.200 --> 00:03:18.700
+[Speaker 1]: Following on that, then meta is to the left
+
+00:03:21.880 --> 00:03:22.080
+of super, and then control is to the left of
+
+00:03:26.720 --> 00:03:26.940
+meta. And also, caps lock maps to control as
+
+00:03:31.380 --> 00:03:31.620
+well. Definitely tried a bunch of tap for
+
+00:03:35.460 --> 00:03:35.940
+this and that on a programmable keyboard,
+
+00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:39.520
+but I have settled on keep it simple and use
+
+00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:41.780
+something like carabiner elements to do most
+
+00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:46.640
+[Speaker 0]: Right. It's good that you were able to stop
+
+00:03:48.480 --> 00:03:48.760
+there. I wish I'd stopped there at some point
+
+00:03:50.940 --> 00:03:51.340
+[Speaker 1]: of the mapping. It was a terrible moment
+
+00:03:52.900 --> 00:03:53.000
+where I'm like, oh, what have I done when I
+
+00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:54.200
+was trying to type once?
+
+00:03:57.500 --> 00:03:58.000
+[Speaker 0]: in my life. All right,
+
+00:03:58.920 --> 00:03:59.420
+moving on to the next question.
+
+00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:01.560
+Great talk. What's the package you used to
+
+00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:02.620
+make the org slide?
+
+00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:03.740
+[Speaker 1]: So yeah, it's great. Yeah,
+
+00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:13.940
+so I am using Protz Logos and have,
+
+00:04:15.660 --> 00:04:16.160
+I think, like, Olivet mode.
+
+00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:20.140
+I'll post a link to the configuration for
+
+00:04:21.019 --> 00:04:21.260
+turning it on and off.
+
+00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:24.680
+But it's basically narrow region to an org
+
+00:04:27.940 --> 00:04:28.220
+heading, which is, I find that to be super
+
+00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:30.800
+helpful. Don't have to fiddle with it.
+
+00:04:32.900 --> 00:04:33.120
+[Speaker 0]: Right, just to be clear,
+
+00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:35.140
+it's Olivetti, right? I think that's the...
+
+00:04:36.460 --> 00:04:36.960
+[Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, Olivetti, yeah.
+
+00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:40.120
+[Speaker 0]: A typical Italian word that is really tough
+
+00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:42.880
+to pronounce between Europeans and people in
+
+00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:46.400
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I had a... For some reason I dropped
+
+00:04:48.940 --> 00:04:49.440
+the I at the end. So in my head
+
+00:04:52.660 --> 00:04:52.800
+[Speaker 0]: the US. Yeah, moving to the next question if
+
+00:04:54.440 --> 00:04:54.800
+people do get interested in picking up emacs
+
+00:04:56.520 --> 00:04:56.680
+because of what they see you do How do you
+
+00:04:58.260 --> 00:04:58.440
+recommend they say they get into it?
+
+00:04:58.440 --> 00:04:58.940
+Oh
+
+00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:06.020
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so I've been I think a lot of it comes
+
+00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:09.780
+down to what are the problems that they're
+
+00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:11.880
+trying to solve. And so I walked them through
+
+00:05:15.460 --> 00:05:15.660
+my journey. I worked in TextMate for a long
+
+00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:17.480
+time, then Sublime, then Atom.
+
+00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:20.720
+And then in 2020, I hopped over to Emacs,
+
+00:05:25.080 --> 00:05:25.580
+started writing in it and I chose Space Max
+
+00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:27.180
+and then I chose Doom.
+
+00:05:28.140 --> 00:05:28.640
+And then I was like, wait,
+
+00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:33.280
+start over, erase everything and just do the
+
+00:05:36.620 --> 00:05:36.760
+tutorial. So I did the tutorial and then I
+
+00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:38.000
+started writing and I was like,
+
+00:05:39.520 --> 00:05:40.020
+oh, I really want this functionality.
+
+00:05:43.380 --> 00:05:43.580
+And so I went and I looked for it and I
+
+00:05:44.060 --> 00:05:44.560
+installed the package.
+
+00:05:46.060 --> 00:05:46.560
+And then I got the functionality,
+
+00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:48.120
+went back to writing, and I'm like,
+
+00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:50.080
+oh, my editor should really be able to do
+
+00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:52.500
+this. And I thought about it.
+
+00:05:55.380 --> 00:05:55.520
+So a lot of it came down to the experience of
+
+00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:56.820
+what they're trying to accomplish.
+
+00:06:00.900 --> 00:06:01.260
+And really helping ask them that.
+
+00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:04.900
+I had 1 mentee had used Vim for a long time
+
+00:06:07.700 --> 00:06:07.940
+and then was exploring using Evil Mode and
+
+00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:13.260
+Emacs and we had conversations and it was
+
+00:06:16.840 --> 00:06:17.220
+like go back to Vim like you were using VS
+
+00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:19.280
+Code just go back to Vim and they went back
+
+00:06:20.980 --> 00:06:21.420
+to Vim and then they started writing,
+
+00:06:22.760 --> 00:06:23.260
+well, they went to NeoVim and they started
+
+00:06:27.620 --> 00:06:27.900
+writing Lua plugins for stuff and it just
+
+00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:29.980
+helped free them and they gained that
+
+00:06:31.320 --> 00:06:31.820
+ownership in their text editor.
+
+00:06:37.520 --> 00:06:37.660
+So I try to have them think through what are
+
+00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:40.440
+the common tasks that they're trying to
+
+00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:44.440
+accomplish and then thinking in terms of
+
+00:06:46.320 --> 00:06:46.480
+that. So instead of going and finding a
+
+00:06:48.340 --> 00:06:48.560
+solution, understand the problems they're
+
+00:06:52.180 --> 00:06:52.320
+experiencing, which tends to be what we
+
+00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:53.860
+should do in software development.
+
+00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:58.220
+Instead of implementing the solve a problem.
+
+00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:02.500
+Sometimes It's fun to implement an idea.
+
+00:07:04.840 --> 00:07:05.220
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I think it's really the crux,
+
+00:07:06.740 --> 00:07:07.120
+really, when it comes to software
+
+00:07:08.760 --> 00:07:09.060
+development, because what is at the crux of
+
+00:07:09.520 --> 00:07:09.960
+any kind of engineering?
+
+00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:11.840
+Well, it's the problem you're trying to
+
+00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:13.680
+solve. If you've got 2 islands and you need
+
+00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:14.860
+to join them up together,
+
+00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:16.340
+well, I need to build a bridge.
+
+00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:17.660
+Now, obviously with software,
+
+00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:19.940
+we have problems that defy the law of
+
+00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:21.840
+physics, which is great because we get very
+
+00:07:23.520 --> 00:07:23.720
+complex problems that are very exciting to
+
+00:07:26.380 --> 00:07:26.880
+solve. But when it comes to onboarding people
+
+00:07:28.180 --> 00:07:28.680
+into those ways of solving problems,
+
+00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:30.040
+well, I think mentoring,
+
+00:07:32.980 --> 00:07:33.480
+The key behind mentoring is that together,
+
+00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:35.460
+we're going to look at a problem and we're
+
+00:07:37.200 --> 00:07:37.680
+going to try to see how high would fix it.
+
+00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:40.740
+And you're going to try to appreciate whether
+
+00:07:42.280 --> 00:07:42.440
+this is something you would do as well or
+
+00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:43.760
+would like to do.
+
+00:07:50.080 --> 00:07:50.580
+[Speaker 1]: Yep, Absolutely. Yeah,
+
+00:07:54.340 --> 00:07:54.480
+it's really taking time to walk with them on
+
+00:07:56.500 --> 00:07:57.000
+the journey to understand what's frustrating
+
+00:07:59.700 --> 00:08:00.040
+them. I have a coworker we've been working
+
+00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:01.740
+together for a very long time.
+
+00:08:05.280 --> 00:08:05.780
+She is not a fast navigator of her editor,
+
+00:08:08.860 --> 00:08:09.200
+but as we've talked, that's not where she's
+
+00:08:09.960 --> 00:08:10.460
+looking to get better.
+
+00:08:17.380 --> 00:08:17.680
+She's looking to get better at asking the
+
+00:08:20.500 --> 00:08:20.740
+questions of the clients early so that we
+
+00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:23.660
+don't go down long paths of implementation.
+
+00:08:27.940 --> 00:08:28.320
+So it's been great because she's not looking
+
+00:08:29.820 --> 00:08:30.060
+to get better at her text editor.
+
+00:08:32.500 --> 00:08:33.000
+She's adequate for how she navigates.
+
+00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:34.900
+Other people look and they're like,
+
+00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:36.179
+man, I want to do it faster.
+
+00:08:36.820 --> 00:08:37.120
+I want to do it different.
+
+00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:38.340
+I want to do it better.
+
+00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:39.980
+And then we have a different conversation.
+
+00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:44.720
+[Speaker 0]: Right. All right. Moving on to the next
+
+00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:47.320
+question. I've been using Emacs for about 30
+
+00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:49.240
+years and I find it really difficult to
+
+00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:51.200
+figure out how to help people get started
+
+00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:54.600
+with it So I guess my question is the same as
+
+00:08:55.680 --> 00:08:55.900
+the green question right about it.
+
+00:08:57.900 --> 00:08:58.100
+I think it's slightly different though You
+
+00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:01.360
+could it is more about well go on please.
+
+00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:02.000
+Yeah
+
+00:09:06.900 --> 00:09:07.400
+[Speaker 1]: so My wife a while ago,
+
+00:09:10.680 --> 00:09:11.180
+talked about the idea of,
+
+00:09:15.860 --> 00:09:16.260
+relative to anybody, I am an expert or
+
+00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:19.200
+slightly more informed on a topic than the
+
+00:09:20.380 --> 00:09:20.880
+person quote behind me.
+
+00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:22.600
+And there's a person ahead of me who's
+
+00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:24.740
+slightly more informed than I am.
+
+00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:28.120
+And so what we're looking at is perhaps with
+
+00:09:28.820 --> 00:09:29.320
+30 years of experience,
+
+00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:32.780
+introducing someone to Emacs might be
+
+00:09:35.780 --> 00:09:35.920
+difficult because you've you're too much of
+
+00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:41.320
+an expert. So maybe the there's a an idea of
+
+00:09:42.380 --> 00:09:42.880
+like what are the principles of pedagogy.
+
+00:09:45.180 --> 00:09:45.360
+I know we that was talked about yesterday in
+
+00:09:47.180 --> 00:09:47.300
+a presentation about like here's a
+
+00:09:49.160 --> 00:09:49.280
+constraint, you're using Emacs for the
+
+00:09:54.660 --> 00:09:54.880
+course. But so it's that idea of sharing what
+
+00:09:56.880 --> 00:09:57.380
+you have, where you're at,
+
+00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:00.720
+will, I think by nature,
+
+00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:03.860
+move the entire queue of people,
+
+00:10:04.940 --> 00:10:05.380
+like they don't really exist.
+
+00:10:06.380 --> 00:10:06.680
+I mean, they do, but they don't.
+
+00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:09.100
+Behind you, it'll help move them together
+
+00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.820
+forward just a little bit.
+
+00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:13.940
+And maybe we all move the condition together.
+
+00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:18.240
+So It's not a only 1 person kind of thing.
+
+00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:22.540
+It's a mindset of improving shared
+
+00:10:22.540 --> 00:10:23.040
+understanding.
+
+00:10:26.520 --> 00:10:26.640
+[Speaker 0]: Exactly, and I'd like to come back on
+
+00:10:28.180 --> 00:10:28.680
+something that you mentioned in your answer,
+
+00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:31.440
+because it's, you know,
+
+00:10:33.060 --> 00:10:33.460
+what the person asking the question
+
+00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:35.740
+mentioned, 30 years of advance,
+
+00:10:36.620 --> 00:10:36.860
+basically, on starting Emacs.
+
+00:10:37.900 --> 00:10:38.400
+You know, that's a lot of time,
+
+00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:41.020
+And you tend to equate this to a massive gap
+
+00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:42.940
+in terms of skills between the 2 people.
+
+00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:47.840
+And whilst it's obvious that would be a gap
+
+00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:50.460
+of skills. You know, I find that learning in
+
+00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:55.460
+terms of pedagogy works best when the person
+
+00:10:58.180 --> 00:10:58.320
+doing the teaching is very close in terms of
+
+00:11:00.380 --> 00:11:00.880
+skill levels to the person being taught.
+
+00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:03.120
+Why is it the case? It's because it's much
+
+00:11:05.660 --> 00:11:05.800
+fresher in their memory what are the
+
+00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:08.300
+different elements that they have to go
+
+00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:09.940
+through to acquire a particular skill.
+
+00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:12.940
+To go a little bit into the theory,
+
+00:11:14.640 --> 00:11:15.060
+I'm not sure if you're familiar with Vygotsky
+
+00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:16.860
+or at least the I plus 1.
+
+00:11:17.640 --> 00:11:17.860
+Are you familiar with this,
+
+00:11:20.540 --> 00:11:21.040
+[Speaker 1]: I am not, go on.
+
+00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:23.000
+[Speaker 0]: Jeremy? So I used to be a teacher before,
+
+00:11:24.520 --> 00:11:24.960
+and it's 1 of the things they taught us.
+
+00:11:26.920 --> 00:11:27.340
+It's about the fact that when you are trying
+
+00:11:28.900 --> 00:11:29.400
+to make someone acquire a skill,
+
+00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:32.340
+I represents the current knowledge,
+
+00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:35.160
+and plus 1 is the thing that you should be
+
+00:11:38.920 --> 00:11:39.060
+teaching them and the theory behind it is
+
+00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:42.040
+that it's much easier to teach someone to
+
+00:11:44.260 --> 00:11:44.500
+teach something to someone when they only
+
+00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:46.460
+have to focus on plus 1 i.e.
+
+00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:48.900
+Something that is very close nearby to them
+
+00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:50.840
+If you go with something that is I plus 2,
+
+00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:53.740
+I plus 3, or god forbid I plus 10,
+
+00:11:55.760 --> 00:11:55.960
+it's going to be much harder for them to get
+
+00:11:58.100 --> 00:11:58.360
+to the understanding because the distance is
+
+00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:01.960
+much greater. And that's why I think
+
+00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:05.320
+mentoring can be taken in 2 ways.
+
+00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:07.860
+It could be a mentor who's merely ahead of
+
+00:12:10.380 --> 00:12:10.760
+you by plus 1, or it could be a mentor that
+
+00:12:12.040 --> 00:12:12.440
+is ahead of you by plus 10,
+
+00:12:14.380 --> 00:12:14.640
+but who has the understanding of what plus 1,
+
+00:12:15.800 --> 00:12:16.300
+plus 2, and plus 3 is.
+
+00:12:22.680 --> 00:12:23.160
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, and it can be very challenging to
+
+00:12:27.400 --> 00:12:27.540
+unwind that. I know if we think about all of
+
+00:12:33.540 --> 00:12:33.740
+our hands or input methods have a memory of
+
+00:12:35.920 --> 00:12:36.120
+something that I honestly couldn't tell you
+
+00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:38.940
+what it is. Right? Like,
+
+00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:40.740
+I know how to do it on a keyboard,
+
+00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:43.980
+right? We've internalized so much.
+
+00:12:47.900 --> 00:12:48.040
+And so, yeah, how to walk backward is a
+
+00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:52.200
+distinct challenge and being curious with
+
+00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:56.100
+them and close to them and not asking,
+
+00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:00.800
+trying to diffuse questions and not ask like
+
+00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:03.620
+leading, not overly leading.
+
+00:13:09.280 --> 00:13:09.780
+An example, early on in my mentoring career,
+
+00:13:11.260 --> 00:13:11.760
+I was working in a community project,
+
+00:13:14.280 --> 00:13:14.480
+and I really wanted to go in and say to
+
+00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:18.500
+everybody, why do we suck at sharing code?
+
+00:13:21.020 --> 00:13:21.520
+But instead I said, wait a minute,
+
+00:13:24.880 --> 00:13:25.080
+what would be the question I could ask the
+
+00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:28.180
+group in which I could then ask my question?
+
+00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:30.720
+So instead I went into the group and I said,
+
+00:13:32.560 --> 00:13:33.060
+how are we doing about sharing code?
+
+00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:37.620
+And collectively, we were able to establish
+
+00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:39.700
+we didn't feel very good about it.
+
+00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:43.240
+And that conversation now 9 years ago,
+
+00:13:47.020 --> 00:13:47.300
+helped move a process along for the last,
+
+00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:50.380
+like it gave it energy for 9 years of how
+
+00:13:51.560 --> 00:13:52.060
+we're sharing and how we're approaching
+
+00:13:58.260 --> 00:13:58.760
+stuff. So yeah, the curious questions are
+
+00:14:00.060 --> 00:14:00.560
+super helpful.
+
+00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:04.940
+[Speaker 0]: All right, lovely way to finish this point.
+
+00:14:06.940 --> 00:14:07.200
+We have about 10 more minutes so I'm glad
+
+00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:08.800
+that we have a little bit of extra time to
+
+00:14:10.640 --> 00:14:10.920
+answer the questions because we have a little
+
+00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:13.940
+more. All right, I'm gonna switch to the next
+
+00:14:15.160 --> 00:14:15.480
+question we can come back to people reacting
+
+00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:17.220
+to what you just said a little bit later.
+
+00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:17.640
+[Speaker 2]: Sure.
+
+00:14:20.640 --> 00:14:20.860
+[Speaker 0]: All right, have you encountered anyone that
+
+00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:24.000
+are being negative about the fact that you're
+
+00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:26.600
+using Emacs, assuming that they just don't
+
+00:14:28.740 --> 00:14:28.940
+know or have misconceptions about Emacs and
+
+00:14:30.340 --> 00:14:30.700
+nothing malicious? If so,
+
+00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:32.720
+how do you handle these kinds of people?
+
+00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:40.840
+[Speaker 1]: Sure, So at work, I get a gentle elbowing of
+
+00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:43.220
+like, oh, Jeremy's going to talk about Emacs
+
+00:14:45.900 --> 00:14:46.400
+again. So it's not entirely...
+
+00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:51.100
+Maybe it's a little dismissive,
+
+00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:57.340
+but I don't actually care because like it's
+
+00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:00.240
+like being, I don't know,
+
+00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:02.480
+it's like being made fun of for using a
+
+00:15:03.560 --> 00:15:04.060
+particular type of pen.
+
+00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:06.180
+Like goal is to write something,
+
+00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:09.580
+right? And I'm using a pen that gives me joy.
+
+00:15:11.740 --> 00:15:12.240
+When I talk with my mentees,
+
+00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:14.440
+like I want to meet them exactly where
+
+00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:17.200
+they're at with their code and like what
+
+00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:21.260
+they're comfortable with and help them remove
+
+00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:23.600
+any of that potential like inadequacy,
+
+00:15:27.800 --> 00:15:27.980
+sense of inadequacy or imposter syndrome or
+
+00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:33.480
+any of those things because The goal is to,
+
+00:15:36.380 --> 00:15:36.880
+for me, to be better at computering.
+
+00:15:39.800 --> 00:15:40.300
+Like hop on my computer.
+
+00:15:45.060 --> 00:15:45.220
+I want to be able to use it at a speed of
+
+00:15:47.680 --> 00:15:47.800
+thought that doesn't introduce a lot of
+
+00:15:50.660 --> 00:15:51.160
+friction. Another speaker talked about that
+
+00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:54.200
+using HyperBowl and a couple of plugins to
+
+00:15:55.260 --> 00:15:55.760
+write stream of consciousness.
+
+00:15:57.980 --> 00:15:58.480
+And that was an important consideration.
+
+00:16:01.060 --> 00:16:01.380
+I want my text editor to flow with me.
+
+00:16:02.160 --> 00:16:02.420
+And so I'm like, well,
+
+00:16:03.560 --> 00:16:04.060
+Emacs flows with me smooth.
+
+00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:08.720
+Like you can deride it all you want.
+
+00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:10.360
+It doesn't thread very well,
+
+00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:12.580
+but it's just me on this machine.
+
+00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:14.440
+I don't need it to overly thread,
+
+00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:16.220
+at least for my use cases.
+
+00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:22.600
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I can only agree 100% with what you've
+
+00:16:25.800 --> 00:16:26.300
+just said. And it's very easy to dismiss
+
+00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:29.160
+stuff like Vim or Emacs based on the very
+
+00:16:31.260 --> 00:16:31.760
+trite sentences that everyone use.
+
+00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:32.640
+But at the end of the day,
+
+00:16:33.540 --> 00:16:34.040
+I really like what you said.
+
+00:16:36.280 --> 00:16:36.780
+Those are just pencil that we're using to
+
+00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:39.280
+express ourselves. And we're doing something
+
+00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:42.080
+a little more fancy than just writing words
+
+00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.180
+on a page. But ultimately,
+
+00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.880
+It's just text at the very bottom.
+
+00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:49.060
+So whatever helps us write this test,
+
+00:16:50.540 --> 00:16:51.040
+this text more easily,
+
+00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:53.460
+you know, it's always good.
+
+00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:56.980
+Yeah. All right. Moving on to the next
+
+00:16:59.360 --> 00:16:59.820
+question. I love the attitudes and worldview
+
+00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:03.160
+that infuse your blog post and your talk this
+
+00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:05.900
+weekend. Learn something every week.
+
+00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:08.680
+It's cumulative. English class was the most
+
+00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:11.520
+important. What other advice do you have and
+
+00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:13.859
+how is it generalizable to those of us who
+
+00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:14.940
+are not devs?
+
+00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:26.780
+[Speaker 1]: Sure. So I think 1 of the really big changes
+
+00:17:29.140 --> 00:17:29.320
+for me, and I talked about this in the
+
+00:17:34.700 --> 00:17:35.200
+writing Q&A, is switching my blog from a
+
+00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:38.480
+topical 1 about role-playing games and board
+
+00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:43.480
+games into anything that I think I want to
+
+00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:47.440
+write. And that shift happened about the time
+
+00:17:50.380 --> 00:17:50.560
+that I was really exploring using Emacs for
+
+00:17:54.060 --> 00:17:54.560
+writing. And so previously I had,
+
+00:17:57.860 --> 00:17:58.360
+I would write blog posts in Markdown using,
+
+00:18:00.560 --> 00:18:01.060
+or I would write it in the web interface.
+
+00:18:06.820 --> 00:18:07.060
+And getting to the point where my writing was
+
+00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:08.980
+the same as my coding,
+
+00:18:12.040 --> 00:18:12.540
+was the same as my RSS consumption,
+
+00:18:15.060 --> 00:18:15.560
+was the same of a lot of these things,
+
+00:18:21.260 --> 00:18:21.560
+freed up my general interests so that they
+
+00:18:23.860 --> 00:18:24.360
+all can kind of play in that space.
+
+00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:27.940
+So and that's the, I think,
+
+00:18:33.080 --> 00:18:33.540
+Feynman said, like, his notes are his
+
+00:18:35.860 --> 00:18:36.360
+thoughts. It's not him thinking,
+
+00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:38.980
+I mean, they are him thinking as well.
+
+00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:41.180
+So it's really framing it that way.
+
+00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:44.680
+And then for not devs,
+
+00:18:49.060 --> 00:18:49.240
+My daughter has been doing screenwriting and
+
+00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:53.480
+she just had her school license for the tool
+
+00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:55.220
+that they use for writing screenplays.
+
+00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:57.660
+She had to pay for it on her own.
+
+00:18:59.540 --> 00:18:59.680
+And I was like, hey, let's take a look at
+
+00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:01.500
+Emacs. There's a package for this.
+
+00:19:03.320 --> 00:19:03.820
+Maybe it makes sense to you.
+
+00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:09.720
+So I think the, really to summarize it is
+
+00:19:12.280 --> 00:19:12.780
+like the broad curiosity in like,
+
+00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:14.820
+I have a liberal arts degree,
+
+00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:21.420
+I have barely any computer science classwork
+
+00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:24.400
+practice. I have a lot of practical
+
+00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:26.700
+experience doing software development,
+
+00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:28.820
+but theory is minimal.
+
+00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:32.520
+Instead, I look to things like Lord of the
+
+00:19:35.340 --> 00:19:35.840
+Rings or role-playing games or poetry or
+
+00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:41.020
+history or whatever and be curious and Then
+
+00:19:47.260 --> 00:19:47.760
+be playful The introduction of git locally
+
+00:19:51.060 --> 00:19:51.340
+where I can just have a Git repo means my
+
+00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:57.340
+text is recoverable. I don't,
+
+00:19:59.060 --> 00:19:59.320
+I can play. I'll just break it,
+
+00:20:00.320 --> 00:20:00.800
+I'll change it. It's software,
+
+00:20:02.860 --> 00:20:03.360
+let it be soft. It's not hard.
+
+00:20:05.740 --> 00:20:06.100
+It can be hard to work with it,
+
+00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:08.520
+but let it be soft. Let it be pruned,
+
+00:20:09.780 --> 00:20:10.120
+let it go away, let it die,
+
+00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:11.700
+let it come back.
+
+00:20:16.360 --> 00:20:16.800
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, That's a lovely attitude to have.
+
+00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:21.160
+I mean, I've already talked about my past as
+
+00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:23.860
+an English major in 1 of the EmacsConf talks,
+
+00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:26.780
+but just like you, I don't have a comp sci
+
+00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:30.200
+education. I just started with needing a
+
+00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:32.620
+better pen, and that was about 10 years ago.
+
+00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:37.020
+And now I find myself hosting Emacs Cons,
+
+00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:39.140
+but it was a very incremental process,
+
+00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:40.660
+a very cumulative process,
+
+00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:43.220
+to reuse the word that we used before.
+
+00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:48.740
+And What I also like about people outside of
+
+00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:50.140
+CompSight using Emacs,
+
+00:20:53.300 --> 00:20:53.480
+and we've got plenty of such examples in the
+
+00:20:54.940 --> 00:20:55.320
+presentations we've had this year,
+
+00:20:57.720 --> 00:20:57.940
+but also last year, is that you get so many
+
+00:21:00.540 --> 00:21:00.920
+different windows into how people are using
+
+00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:03.480
+Emacs, and it kind of harks back to what I
+
+00:21:06.340 --> 00:21:06.560
+was saying before about Emacs being a
+
+00:21:08.380 --> 00:21:08.880
+platform with many horizontal packages
+
+00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:11.060
+permitting any kind of workflow imaginable
+
+00:21:13.580 --> 00:21:14.080
+and some people are going to gravitate
+
+00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:16.640
+towards old mode. I think it was your sister
+
+00:21:18.520 --> 00:21:19.020
+that you mentioned that was looking into
+
+00:21:20.760 --> 00:21:21.260
+packages for writing screenplays.
+
+00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:23.520
+Well, we've got such a thing in Emacs.
+
+00:21:26.260 --> 00:21:26.760
+I mean, a screenplay is just a monospace font
+
+00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:28.400
+with some fancy formatting.
+
+00:21:29.300 --> 00:21:29.800
+It's not very complicated.
+
+00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:32.960
+And if you can get behind,
+
+00:21:36.280 --> 00:21:36.720
+you know, someone using such a stable format
+
+00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:38.940
+for writing screenplay with many rules,
+
+00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:40.840
+but ultimately all the screenplay look the
+
+00:21:42.520 --> 00:21:42.780
+same, well, Emacs is kind of just the same.
+
+00:21:45.060 --> 00:21:45.480
+It's about standardizing the way you edit
+
+00:21:47.760 --> 00:21:48.000
+text. So I think your sister was already half
+
+00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:51.760
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it was my it was my my daughter.
+
+00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:52.840
+I'm trying to sell her on.
+
+00:21:53.320 --> 00:21:53.800
+[Speaker 0]: on the idea. Oh, no, sorry.
+
+00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:56.640
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, she also picked up programming just 1
+
+00:21:58.140 --> 00:21:58.640
+day and was like, I forget that.
+
+00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:01.860
+Like she was playing with a stage manager
+
+00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:03.580
+programming thing or like have a little
+
+00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:05.140
+avatars moving around.
+
+00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:11.480
+And so she's got a predisposition to like the
+
+00:22:15.620 --> 00:22:16.020
+craft of things. And I think that's another
+
+00:22:18.320 --> 00:22:18.820
+aspect is like, I'm not,
+
+00:22:21.080 --> 00:22:21.580
+I mean, I appreciate science.
+
+00:22:23.040 --> 00:22:23.540
+I'm here for a scientific approach,
+
+00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:28.440
+but I also Really enjoy the craft of things
+
+00:22:32.500 --> 00:22:33.000
+Playing with it Like this is my playground.
+
+00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:36.180
+I love kind of hacking on it and looking at
+
+00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:39.360
+packages and Seeing how I might use it pick
+
+00:22:42.120 --> 00:22:42.340
+it up for a little bit and then maybe I
+
+00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:43.380
+forget about it
+
+00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:48.440
+[Speaker 0]: Right, well Jeremy I think that was Lovely
+
+00:22:49.860 --> 00:22:50.180
+finish. Oh, sorry plasma.
+
+00:22:51.380 --> 00:22:51.760
+Oh, sorry. I thought he was someone on Mumble
+
+00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:54.780
+talking to me. I'm actually going to have to
+
+00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:56.600
+be sorry because we only have about 50
+
+00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:58.320
+seconds until we move on to the next talk.
+
+00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:00.040
+But please, Plasma Strike,
+
+00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:01.560
+If you want to ask your question to Jeremy,
+
+00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:03.220
+by all means, stay in the room.
+
+00:23:04.120 --> 00:23:04.620
+[Speaker 1]: Yep, I'll be here.
+
+00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:07.900
+[Speaker 0]: And we'll be recording all of this and we'll
+
+00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:09.940
+put this later on the talk page.
+
+00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:12.560
+So Jeremy, I'll have to say bye now because I
+
+00:23:13.660 --> 00:23:14.160
+need to prepare the next room.
+
+00:23:16.320 --> 00:23:16.440
+But It was lovely talking with you and thank
+
+00:23:17.040 --> 00:23:17.540
+you for all your answers.
+
+00:23:19.040 --> 00:23:19.540
+[Speaker 1]: Absolutely. Thank you.
+
+00:23:21.220 --> 00:23:21.720
+[Speaker 0]: Bye-bye. Bye.
+
+NOTE Start of section to review
+
+00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:26.580
+[Speaker 2]: See you. Hello. One of the things with Emacs is
+
+00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:28.900
+it's not... It's like when you change the
+
+00:23:30.860 --> 00:23:31.260
+file management, you just change very,
+
+00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:33.980
+very small amounts of what exactly you need,
+
+00:23:38.040 --> 00:23:38.360
+you want to change. Like you go from text
+
+00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:43.860
+editing to your file manager,
+
+00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:45.220
+you're not changing your theme,
+
+00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:47.180
+you're not changing your font.
+
+00:23:49.940 --> 00:23:50.060
+[Speaker 3]: And you
+
+00:23:52.360 --> 00:23:52.500
+[Speaker 2]: use your bookmarks, you use your bookmarks in
+
+00:23:54.340 --> 00:23:54.840
+your emails, you use your bookmarks in your
+
+00:23:59.380 --> 00:23:59.880
+org-mod documents, you use it in E-dub,
+
+00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:02.960
+W-W buffers if you use that,
+
+00:24:06.760 --> 00:24:06.940
+but it's just the, Yeah,
+
+00:24:10.080 --> 00:24:10.580
+it's just the least amount of Incremental
+
+00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:11.440
+changes
+
+00:24:14.620 --> 00:24:14.900
+[Speaker 1]: yeah, you're when you were talking about like
+
+00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:18.980
+the Reducing friction like turn off editing
+
+00:24:22.280 --> 00:24:22.480
+or not editing, but auto correct while you're
+
+00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:25.940
+typing, it's absolutely spot on.
+
+00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:30.300
+You're wanting to get whatever is flowing
+
+00:24:31.280 --> 00:24:31.720
+needs to keep flowing,
+
+00:24:33.700 --> 00:24:34.200
+like as a programmer or as a creative,
+
+00:24:38.100 --> 00:24:38.600
+anytime I can hit flow is my goal.
+
+00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:42.740
+And so paying attention to what removes flow
+
+00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:48.980
+or hinders it or saps energy and that unified
+
+00:24:52.800 --> 00:24:53.080
+environment of Emacs is really helpful to
+
+00:24:57.260 --> 00:24:57.760
+maintain that. So yeah.
+
+00:25:02.300 --> 00:25:02.580
+[Speaker 2]: I think it's about speed and then once after
+
+00:25:04.040 --> 00:25:04.540
+you get some of that, then you're like,
+
+00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:06.920
+well, yeah, it's important,
+
+00:25:09.320 --> 00:25:09.820
+but this is like the last thing I care about.
+
+00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:14.780
+[Speaker 1]: Right. Speed is all like,
+
+00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:20.200
+Yeah, there's a quote that I love called,
+
+00:25:22.940 --> 00:25:23.440
+I forget the author. It's,
+
+00:25:30.060 --> 00:25:30.260
+there is a connection between slowness and
+
+00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:34.460
+remembering and fastness and forgetting.
+
+00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:40.180
+And the slowness is an interesting,
+
+00:25:43.520 --> 00:25:43.840
+like it's, I am moving fast in Emacs because
+
+00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:46.520
+I've forgotten how I'm doing it.
+
+00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:48.420
+I just do it now, right?
+
+00:25:52.120 --> 00:25:52.360
+And then the slowness of like being in my
+
+00:25:57.540 --> 00:25:57.720
+thought and staying on that stream is where I
+
+00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:02.200
+want to be and ride whatever that pathway is.
+
+00:26:07.540 --> 00:26:07.680
+And a text editor is still hard to do that
+
+00:26:10.260 --> 00:26:10.520
+because if I were using a pen and paper it's
+
+00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:12.100
+more cumbersome to auto-edit.
+
+00:26:18.620 --> 00:26:18.800
+But I can't get it out without losing my
+
+00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:21.440
+thinking. And so I ended up having to type
+
+00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:21.940
+it.
+
+00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:25.640
+[Speaker 3]: Something I've been experimenting with is
+
+00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:27.100
+using, well, recording.
+
+00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:29.700
+Some other people are using dictation for
+
+00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:32.260
+this to just get the blur out of the ideas
+
+00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:35.500
+and you can go back and glean some of that
+
+00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:36.700
+stuff out of it.
+
+00:26:41.320 --> 00:26:41.680
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, what I will do when I'm capturing like
+
+00:26:44.760 --> 00:26:45.260
+quotes or epigraphs is I will almost always
+
+00:26:47.760 --> 00:26:47.960
+turn on dictation because I got a book in 1
+
+00:26:52.020 --> 00:26:52.520
+hand. So I'm like, on goes the typing.
+
+00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:56.940
+And yeah, that is, there's a,
+
+00:26:59.900 --> 00:27:00.180
+I'm really thankful that that exists as well.
+
+00:27:01.260 --> 00:27:01.760
+Like my mother is blind.
+
+00:27:05.020 --> 00:27:05.520
+And so having that helps her and me
+
+00:27:08.560 --> 00:27:09.060
+communicate Through text because we're both
+
+00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:13.400
+able to appreciate it And use it in a way
+
+00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:15.980
+that is accessible for both of us
+
+00:27:19.120 --> 00:27:19.620
+[Speaker 3]: Go ahead
+
+00:27:23.100 --> 00:27:23.600
+[Speaker 2]: There's the L feet to package which will
+
+00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:25.200
+which will allow you to both of us.
+
+00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:25.440
+There's the ElfieTube package which will
+
+00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:28.820
+allow you to subscribe to a YouTube channel
+
+00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:33.000
+and then download the subtitles and give you
+
+00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:36.940
+remote control access to the MPV player to
+
+00:27:37.700 --> 00:27:38.200
+watch the YouTube thing.
+
+00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:41.920
+And considering you have a really big
+
+00:27:44.580 --> 00:27:44.680
+subtitle thing that you can click at the
+
+00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:45.660
+various different places,
+
+00:27:47.860 --> 00:27:48.280
+it's really surprising about how different
+
+00:27:49.300 --> 00:27:49.800
+that makes YouTube feel.
+
+00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:51.180
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah I've...
+
+00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:54.340
+[Speaker 2]: And then on top of that about how much like
+
+00:27:57.660 --> 00:27:57.800
+if you've used it why would you never have
+
+00:27:59.160 --> 00:27:59.660
+thought about that before because it's...
+
+00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:01.220
+Right. It's even better.
+
+00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:05.340
+[Speaker 1]: Right absolutely. Sasha?
+
+00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:10.440
+[Speaker 3]: Oh I would say I do use the caption slot also
+
+00:28:11.580 --> 00:28:12.040
+when I'm skimming through stuff for Emacs
+
+00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:14.240
+News. But for books specifically,
+
+00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:18.600
+I often use Google Lens to just capture the
+
+00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:22.200
+text and copy it so that I don't have to deal
+
+00:28:24.140 --> 00:28:24.640
+with recognition errors or whatever.
+
+00:28:25.760 --> 00:28:26.260
+really useful.
+
+00:28:31.780 --> 00:28:32.280
+[Speaker 1]: It's just So 1 of my hobbies is role-playing
+
+00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:36.100
+games and the tabular data that is in the
+
+00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:39.440
+role-playing books is never in correct,
+
+00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:43.380
+like copy it out. And so I was like this is
+
+00:28:46.260 --> 00:28:46.680
+really annoying And I ended up taking
+
+00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:48.220
+screenshots on my machine,
+
+00:28:50.280 --> 00:28:50.780
+running Tesseract to pipe it in,
+
+00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:53.980
+and then using Emacs to like edit it because
+
+00:28:57.940 --> 00:28:58.100
+Tesseract adheres to the column format that
+
+00:29:00.520 --> 00:29:00.680
+I'm looking for. And I'm really thankful that
+
+00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:06.100
+we're at a place where the OCR is in good
+
+00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:10.120
+shape. That's part of my day job is working
+
+00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:14.680
+on some old documents that OCR is good,
+
+00:29:18.100 --> 00:29:18.600
+but not great because of like their 19th
+
+00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:23.920
+century documents, but having that ability to
+
+00:29:28.080 --> 00:29:28.220
+me is really powerful because we're gonna be
+
+00:29:32.580 --> 00:29:32.900
+able to share that text And also then once
+
+00:29:35.860 --> 00:29:36.360
+it's understood in what it's ASCII or UTF-8
+
+00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:39.500
+encoding is, it can be translated as well.
+
+00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:42.460
+So we can make it even more generally
+
+00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:46.720
+available, which I think is a nice thing to
+
+00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:47.220
+have.
+
+00:29:51.820 --> 00:29:52.320
+[Speaker 3]: I wanted to go back to the topic of mentoring
+
+00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:54.240
+since that's something that I'm very much
+
+00:29:55.940 --> 00:29:56.400
+interested in figuring out how to facilitate
+
+00:29:56.980 --> 00:29:57.480
+in the Emacs community.
+
+00:30:00.520 --> 00:30:00.720
+Other people have been working on kind of
+
+00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:03.900
+remote mentoring initiatives with Emacs
+
+00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:07.860
+Buddy. And there are meetups as well that
+
+00:30:09.140 --> 00:30:09.340
+kind of get that sense of like,
+
+00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:10.840
+you know, what people are doing things and
+
+00:30:12.040 --> 00:30:12.500
+then somebody can look over their shoulder
+
+00:30:14.060 --> 00:30:14.260
+and say, hey, have you ever thought about
+
+00:30:15.060 --> 00:30:15.560
+[Speaker 1]: Right.
+
+00:30:17.780 --> 00:30:18.040
+[Speaker 3]: this? Is there any things that you can can
+
+00:30:20.320 --> 00:30:20.820
+suggest specifically in the context of this
+
+00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:23.680
+kind of mentoring over a distance?
+
+00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:26.180
+Any chance you've thought about it?
+
+00:30:30.800 --> 00:30:30.920
+[Speaker 1]: I'm on the Emacs buddy repo and I've had a
+
+00:30:32.600 --> 00:30:33.100
+handful of people reach out to me.
+
+00:30:37.700 --> 00:30:37.920
+Most often we start with email and every so
+
+00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:39.320
+often it'll be like, hey,
+
+00:30:44.340 --> 00:30:44.840
+let's hop on some kind of video or audio,
+
+00:30:47.320 --> 00:30:47.820
+even just done phone calls.
+
+00:30:53.140 --> 00:30:53.480
+Yeah, I haven't done any of the like shared
+
+00:30:57.220 --> 00:30:57.500
+buffer stuff. I know like at work we have
+
+00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:00.200
+replit where we can use that.
+
+00:31:02.500 --> 00:31:03.000
+Seeing the presentation on CDRT,
+
+00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:04.940
+I was like, oh, that's really great.
+
+00:31:10.760 --> 00:31:11.140
+But what I found is being able to see
+
+00:31:15.280 --> 00:31:15.720
+someone, I don't get to see them typing,
+
+00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:17.840
+but I get to see the results of what they're
+
+00:31:18.840 --> 00:31:19.340
+doing on the computer.
+
+00:31:22.840 --> 00:31:23.040
+You know paying attention to that is the big
+
+00:31:26.040 --> 00:31:26.540
+1 to help them think of a different way.
+
+00:31:28.940 --> 00:31:29.160
+Depending on where they're at when they're
+
+00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:33.460
+writing if they are like at a pause point,
+
+00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:35.460
+if I'm at my best, I'll be like,
+
+00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:38.360
+so what are you thinking?
+
+00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:41.140
+Where are you stuck? Cause maybe they're
+
+00:31:43.040 --> 00:31:43.280
+trying to navigate somewhere and that starts
+
+00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:46.720
+to create a point for a conversation of like,
+
+00:31:48.280 --> 00:31:48.780
+how do I go from here to there?
+
+00:31:57.340 --> 00:31:57.520
+And so it's looking for those moments is
+
+00:31:58.840 --> 00:31:59.340
+where I try to operate.
+
+00:32:03.740 --> 00:32:04.240
+[Speaker 3]: And sometimes, you know,
+
+00:32:05.380 --> 00:32:05.600
+so there's kind of like,
+
+00:32:06.760 --> 00:32:07.120
+how do you go from here to there?
+
+00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:08.500
+And sometimes even the,
+
+00:32:12.380 --> 00:32:12.540
+what there should I be going for is a
+
+00:32:15.060 --> 00:32:15.160
+challenge, right? Because especially with
+
+00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:16.980
+Emacs newbies, they might not necessarily
+
+00:32:19.340 --> 00:32:19.540
+know what's possible or what's nearby in
+
+00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:21.700
+terms of what their current knowledge is.
+
+00:32:23.760 --> 00:32:24.120
+And that's an interesting thing to map out.
+
+00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:26.400
+Is that something that you've thought about
+
+00:32:29.020 --> 00:32:29.280
+and as you're conversing with all these
+
+00:32:29.280 --> 00:32:29.780
+people?
+
+00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:37.840
+[Speaker 1]: The main thing, the main function that I do
+
+00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:38.940
+talk, I talked about this,
+
+00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:41.740
+I think in the, I did in the talk where it's,
+
+00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:46.660
+I need to jump between the test and the
+
+00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:51.400
+implementation. And since 2005,
+
+00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:56.480
+I've had that. And I watch folks not have
+
+00:32:57.880 --> 00:32:58.100
+that. I'm just like, Oh,
+
+00:33:00.380 --> 00:33:00.540
+my goodness, like there's a convention in the
+
+00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:02.720
+language we work in. Let's get that
+
+00:33:04.080 --> 00:33:04.580
+installed. Let's get it going.
+
+00:33:07.600 --> 00:33:07.840
+Like that's 1 thing, that's 1 access I know
+
+00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:11.880
+they're gonna go to. Another 1 is the jump to
+
+00:33:14.280 --> 00:33:14.600
+definition. And I've never gotten like C
+
+00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:16.960
+tags. I haven't really spent time on that,
+
+00:33:18.600 --> 00:33:19.100
+but with the advent of LSP,
+
+00:33:21.040 --> 00:33:21.540
+it works a lot better.
+
+00:33:24.520 --> 00:33:25.020
+And so I try to get people to use that.
+
+00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:30.640
+And what I've noticed weirdly is like VS
+
+00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:34.400
+code, it doesn't work as well as I would have
+
+00:33:36.340 --> 00:33:36.500
+thought. And there's lots of like errors and
+
+00:33:38.100 --> 00:33:38.560
+warnings popping up in the bottom corner.
+
+00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:41.280
+So I'm like, well, you gotta pay attention to
+
+00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:46.140
+that. But I try not to get into anybody's
+
+00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:48.120
+business about like, I'm like,
+
+00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:49.120
+maybe we could fix that.
+
+00:33:50.020 --> 00:33:50.280
+Maybe we can clean it up,
+
+00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:52.240
+but it's your, you know,
+
+00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:54.940
+it's your car you're driving.
+
+00:33:56.320 --> 00:33:56.760
+I'm just long for a ride.
+
+00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.120
+It's safe, we're fine.
+
+00:34:01.360 --> 00:34:01.860
+So yeah, that jumped to definition.
+
+00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:08.440
+And then the, I mean, search in project,
+
+00:34:10.080 --> 00:34:10.580
+like everybody understanding that.
+
+00:34:15.219 --> 00:34:15.380
+But I feel that the, like I mentioned in the
+
+00:34:17.980 --> 00:34:18.480
+talk, the advent of orderless is just huge.
+
+00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:21.659
+I did not realize how much I loved it because
+
+00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:24.480
+I don't have to think about things and can
+
+00:34:28.080 --> 00:34:28.580
+have slightly more forgiving default
+
+00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:34.840
+searches. Yeah, it's hard.
+
+00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:39.440
+The principles of organizing 10 things versus
+
+00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:41.540
+100 versus 1,000 versus 10,000
+
+00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:44.940
+are just, they're not the same.
+
+00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:52.540
+[Speaker 2]: A common hang up for, that would easily make
+
+00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:54.820
+you skip off of Emacs,
+
+00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:01.040
+Org Mode, Hyperbole is if you go into any of
+
+00:35:03.680 --> 00:35:04.040
+those with the mindset of I'm going to master
+
+00:35:05.080 --> 00:35:05.580
+it all before I use it.
+
+00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:07.140
+That's not going to work.
+
+00:35:13.660 --> 00:35:13.860
+[Speaker 1]: Absolutely. I was terrified of org mode when
+
+00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:15.060
+I started because I'm like,
+
+00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:17.040
+I don't need to organize my life.
+
+00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:20.960
+I need to like type. And then that,
+
+00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.020
+yes, incremental. What did I find helpful?
+
+00:35:28.580 --> 00:35:29.080
+[Speaker 2]: It's for the, for the Linux CLI toolbox,
+
+00:35:30.860 --> 00:35:31.360
+but you have to look at them as more of just,
+
+00:35:34.640 --> 00:35:35.140
+I have a whole bunch of tools available to me
+
+00:35:39.140 --> 00:35:39.360
+and I'll just pick them up as I have a
+
+00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:42.680
+problem and as I, and as the tool can be
+
+00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:44.940
+useful for this problem and incrementally.
+
+00:35:47.700 --> 00:35:48.200
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. It's
+
+00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:55.080
+[Speaker 3]: actually, so, in fact,
+
+00:35:56.180 --> 00:35:56.400
+when when I'm mentoring people,
+
+00:35:58.440 --> 00:35:58.580
+I have to take a step back and say,
+
+00:36:00.520 --> 00:36:00.760
+OK, what are we with the note taking thing
+
+00:36:01.640 --> 00:36:02.140
+that you mentioned in your talk.
+
+00:36:03.120 --> 00:36:03.480
+How do you like to take notes?
+
+00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:05.140
+How do you like to keep track of the things
+
+00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:06.600
+that you want to work on when you have an
+
+00:36:07.540 --> 00:36:08.040
+idea? Where does it go?
+
+00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:10.820
+Because if you improve that practice,
+
+00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:13.180
+and especially if you can sneak some literate
+
+00:36:14.540 --> 00:36:15.040
+programming in without them really noticing,
+
+00:36:17.860 --> 00:36:18.160
+then it becomes the thing that they can use
+
+00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:19.400
+to learn more efficiently.
+
+00:36:23.200 --> 00:36:23.700
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. I was presenting at,
+
+00:36:26.600 --> 00:36:27.100
+I wasn't presenting at this seminar,
+
+00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:30.920
+but I attended it and it was a crash course
+
+00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:32.300
+in command line tools.
+
+00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:36.020
+And I didn't, I mean, I went there to listen
+
+00:36:38.660 --> 00:36:38.800
+and there was a point where the people were
+
+00:36:40.560 --> 00:36:41.060
+like, I use this command line tool.
+
+00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:42.860
+I'm not a programmer, I'm a librarian,
+
+00:36:45.040 --> 00:36:45.060
+I'm an archivist. I use it,
+
+00:36:47.080 --> 00:36:47.580
+I'm like, great, I'm gonna remember this.
+
+00:36:49.640 --> 00:36:49.820
+And then I forget about it and I might use it
+
+00:36:54.340 --> 00:36:54.520
+6 months from now. And so I tried to
+
+00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:57.380
+encourage everybody, like come up with,
+
+00:37:00.580 --> 00:37:00.740
+like you have a degree in knowledge and
+
+00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:02.820
+information, management and organization,
+
+00:37:06.160 --> 00:37:06.660
+introspect, right? Spend some time on it.
+
+00:37:09.740 --> 00:37:10.240
+Think about what is a way that I can do this
+
+00:37:13.180 --> 00:37:13.360
+and ask questions to get to the point where
+
+00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:19.240
+you can create a discoverable inventory of
+
+00:37:22.500 --> 00:37:23.000
+the tools you've used and what that means.
+
+00:37:26.160 --> 00:37:26.660
+And my answer was, I use literate programming
+
+00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:31.300
+or I shove it in my bin directory in GitHub
+
+00:37:34.080 --> 00:37:34.300
+and like, I don't know if I'll remember it,
+
+00:37:35.860 --> 00:37:36.020
+but I can go there every now and then and be
+
+00:37:37.120 --> 00:37:37.620
+like, oh yeah, that command.
+
+00:37:44.220 --> 00:37:44.720
+So note taking is the most critical component
+
+00:37:46.620 --> 00:37:47.120
+of any number of work.
+
+00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:52.360
+[Speaker 3]: Sometimes I wonder if we can maybe
+
+00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:54.500
+externalize some of all this mentoring
+
+00:37:57.520 --> 00:37:57.720
+insight and kind of like this choose your own
+
+00:37:59.700 --> 00:37:59.920
+adventure thing, where the person says,
+
+00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:01.700
+OK, this is what I got at the moment.
+
+00:38:03.460 --> 00:38:03.960
+And then through a series of diagnostic
+
+00:38:05.740 --> 00:38:06.220
+questions, we can figure out what hurts,
+
+00:38:08.040 --> 00:38:08.220
+right? Where is the thing that they would
+
+00:38:08.980 --> 00:38:09.240
+like to learn more about?
+
+00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:10.460
+And then, okay, if that hurts,
+
+00:38:12.620 --> 00:38:13.120
+try this and keep that manageable.
+
+00:38:15.720 --> 00:38:15.880
+And if there's only a way to also be able to
+
+00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:17.720
+capture each person's state,
+
+00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:19.840
+the things that they know about and have
+
+00:38:20.980 --> 00:38:21.480
+absorbed into their habits.
+
+00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:23.200
+So you can say, right,
+
+00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:25.760
+you know, my recommendation for someone who's
+
+00:38:28.580 --> 00:38:28.940
+brand new to org is not the same as somebody
+
+00:38:30.060 --> 00:38:30.480
+who's like, okay, they've got their agendas
+
+00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:31.800
+and everything set up already.
+
+00:38:33.680 --> 00:38:34.180
+Just how do we represent that as like WISPs?
+
+00:38:39.520 --> 00:38:39.720
+[Speaker 1]: I've given up on trying to map that.
+
+00:38:43.180 --> 00:38:43.440
+I like the one-on-one conversations and
+
+00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:47.980
+discovery. And I think that's the part where
+
+00:38:51.980 --> 00:38:52.120
+you're looking at, you're asking about how do
+
+00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:56.320
+we make the process and like I heard,
+
+00:38:58.860 --> 00:38:59.040
+like how do we help equip those who want to
+
+00:39:01.560 --> 00:39:01.960
+mentor as well, right?
+
+00:39:05.900 --> 00:39:05.970
+Making that, reducing the barrier in a way.
+
+00:39:06.040 --> 00:39:06.180
+[Speaker 2]: I don't
+
+00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:08.740
+[Speaker 3]: know, I think what you said about enjoying
+
+00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:10.680
+the conversation and the fact that it is
+
+00:39:12.080 --> 00:39:12.580
+really unique for each person,
+
+00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:15.260
+each situation that comes up.
+
+00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:18.840
+I suspect what it just comes down to is more
+
+00:39:21.560 --> 00:39:22.020
+like capturing the good stuff of each
+
+00:39:23.160 --> 00:39:23.660
+mentoring session or whatever.
+
+00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:26.120
+Maybe it's getting the mentees to write very
+
+00:39:27.700 --> 00:39:27.900
+short blog posts about what they learned this
+
+00:39:28.780 --> 00:39:29.280
+week or whatever else.
+
+00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:31.400
+And then, oh, yeah, you know,
+
+00:39:33.700 --> 00:39:33.900
+we ran into the same problem 3 months ago.
+
+00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:36.440
+Let me go look it up. And then that becomes a
+
+00:39:37.080 --> 00:39:37.580
+reusable segment.
+
+00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:41.780
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, when I worked at a coding bootcamp,
+
+00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:46.720
+they tried to encourage the mentors to say,
+
+00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:49.820
+like write a blog posts for the mentees.
+
+00:39:57.160 --> 00:39:57.380
+And that was, some of them did,
+
+00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:02.140
+but it was intimidating because like they
+
+00:40:03.260 --> 00:40:03.760
+didn't wanna, I don't know.
+
+00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:07.360
+Are we enculturated in an education system
+
+00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:09.920
+where we can't get it wrong or we need to
+
+00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:11.980
+look like we're more of an expert than we
+
+00:40:15.720 --> 00:40:16.220
+are? I don't know. I have a lot of like,
+
+00:40:17.720 --> 00:40:17.960
+I'm a middle aged white guy,
+
+00:40:20.140 --> 00:40:20.640
+I've got a lot of background and privilege in
+
+00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:25.680
+my career. So like, it's not as scary to put
+
+00:40:28.620 --> 00:40:28.860
+something forward for myself as it might be
+
+00:40:31.080 --> 00:40:31.240
+as like a woman in tech or a minority in
+
+00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:35.900
+tech, because that's a different place.
+
+00:40:38.900 --> 00:40:39.400
+And I want to really get done with that.
+
+00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:41.260
+I don't like that at all.
+
+00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:44.320
+And I would love our, like,
+
+00:40:46.640 --> 00:40:47.140
+just write. And it doesn't have to be public,
+
+00:40:48.540 --> 00:40:49.040
+right? You don't have to make it public,
+
+00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:52.380
+but if you make it discoverable to yourself,
+
+00:40:58.320 --> 00:40:58.820
+that's the big thing. And 1 of my coworkers,
+
+00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:05.020
+She doesn't blog, but she definitely has a
+
+00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:07.480
+large knowledge base of stuff that she
+
+00:41:08.980 --> 00:41:09.140
+references because she's pulling out all
+
+00:41:10.520 --> 00:41:10.760
+kinds of stuff and I'm like whatever you're
+
+00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:11.620
+doing is working.
+
+00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:18.420
+[Speaker 2]: I'm trying to have something.
+
+00:41:23.680 --> 00:41:24.180
+There's a good opportunity with the Emacs
+
+00:41:25.680 --> 00:41:26.180
+conference to accomplish this.
+
+00:41:28.420 --> 00:41:28.920
+So like if you make like a,
+
+00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:32.140
+because 1 of the things with it is,
+
+00:41:36.600 --> 00:41:37.080
+Sasha, you do a really good job of using all.
+
+00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:39.000
+You're the 1 who has the Emacs buffer with
+
+00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:40.080
+the time on it, right?
+
+00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:41.980
+Is that your screen that's being recorded for
+
+00:41:45.860 --> 00:41:46.360
+that? Because you have a really good example
+
+00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:50.600
+of a really consolidated emacs workflow that
+
+00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:53.920
+works really good with the Emacs conference
+
+00:41:56.520 --> 00:41:56.800
+so if you had like a page that described how
+
+00:42:00.100 --> 00:42:00.460
+you did all that stuff in the emacs
+
+00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:04.360
+conference like on that and then we then you
+
+00:42:06.140 --> 00:42:06.380
+did even more stuff with that.
+
+00:42:09.560 --> 00:42:10.060
+Like you do the org mode file that you can
+
+00:42:12.140 --> 00:42:12.340
+just put straight into your agenda for your
+
+00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:14.940
+time zone. I used that.
+
+00:42:17.540 --> 00:42:17.800
+That was really nice, just because it allowed
+
+00:42:19.600 --> 00:42:19.900
+me to reorganize and see how all the talks
+
+00:42:21.580 --> 00:42:21.880
+would work together, and which ones I wanted
+
+00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:26.060
+to do. You could add Org Mode to do tags with
+
+00:42:31.020 --> 00:42:31.520
+that, to say, plan to watch,
+
+00:42:36.080 --> 00:42:36.360
+I want to re-watch but I have to skip it
+
+00:42:37.540 --> 00:42:38.000
+because there's another talk I'm watching,
+
+00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:41.260
+you know, like a couple tags don't care about
+
+00:42:43.940 --> 00:42:44.200
+so that people can easily tag all the talks
+
+00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:47.860
+that they care about on top of that.
+
+00:42:52.660 --> 00:42:53.160
+And then with, I'm going to try to email
+
+00:42:54.660 --> 00:42:54.900
+these ideas on it too,
+
+00:42:57.980 --> 00:42:58.480
+but then you can also,
+
+00:43:00.940 --> 00:43:01.440
+you have the either pad questions,
+
+00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:04.440
+you could put all those in org-mode documents
+
+00:43:08.300 --> 00:43:08.760
+with crdt.el, post all those in the Emacs
+
+00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:11.600
+conference and then people could use that to
+
+00:43:13.820 --> 00:43:13.980
+edit all the documents at the same time so
+
+00:43:15.160 --> 00:43:15.660
+then everybody's actually collaboratively
+
+00:43:20.180 --> 00:43:20.440
+editing. And then people have all the
+
+00:43:24.520 --> 00:43:25.020
+scaffolding for if you do the Emacs meetings,
+
+00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:27.940
+buddy meetings, because they know exactly how
+
+00:43:29.820 --> 00:43:30.180
+to set it all up with that.
+
+00:43:34.040 --> 00:43:34.540
+And then you combine it with any number of
+
+00:43:38.040 --> 00:43:38.360
+whatever chat video program so that people
+
+00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:40.280
+can talk and watch each other.
+
+00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:45.920
+[Speaker 3]: I have a presentation later on EmacsConf
+
+00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:49.200
+infrastructure and I will capture the note
+
+00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:51.600
+And maybe I can include a mini tutorial in
+
+00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:53.800
+the schedule org so that people can be like,
+
+00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:55.680
+hey, by the way, you could refile these
+
+00:43:58.860 --> 00:43:59.120
+things into your own org files or tag them
+
+00:44:01.520 --> 00:44:01.720
+and here's a list thingy that filters your
+
+00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:03.740
+agenda by your tag or whatever,
+
+00:44:04.940 --> 00:44:05.200
+it'll be fine. But it's,
+
+00:44:06.100 --> 00:44:06.600
+you know, it's, it's kind of like,
+
+00:44:09.640 --> 00:44:09.800
+it is, you're right. It is an opportunity to
+
+00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:12.800
+expose people to more things that they could
+
+00:44:14.620 --> 00:44:15.120
+do in kind of a scaffolded way.
+
+00:44:16.600 --> 00:44:16.880
+That's interesting stuff,
+
+00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:19.040
+but I, your point actually driving also going
+
+00:44:21.180 --> 00:44:21.680
+back to previous parts of conversation about,
+
+00:44:24.340 --> 00:44:24.546
+it's difficult for people to share.
+
+00:44:26.420 --> 00:44:26.720
+When you realize, like I keep telling
+
+00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:28.880
+everyone, hey, if you blog about Emacs,
+
+00:44:30.720 --> 00:44:30.920
+you'll not only learn things for yourself and
+
+00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:31.920
+make things more searchable,
+
+00:44:33.520 --> 00:44:33.740
+other people will come by and tell you even
+
+00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:35.340
+better ways of doing things,
+
+00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:37.080
+which is something that always happens to me
+
+00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:37.960
+too, and I'm posting this.
+
+00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:38.900
+Has that ever happened?
+
+00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:40.460
+I'm sure that happens to you.
+
+00:44:45.020 --> 00:44:45.520
+[Speaker 1]: It's great. I love getting those things like,
+
+00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:49.700
+yeah, Howard's presentation on the game
+
+00:44:51.720 --> 00:44:52.000
+stuff. I'm like, I'm going to go explore that
+
+00:44:54.560 --> 00:44:55.060
+now. Because it's my little house.
+
+00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:57.780
+[Speaker 3]: You just have to make it less intimidating,
+
+00:45:00.600 --> 00:45:01.100
+right? And kind of change people's perception
+
+00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:03.540
+that, oh, blogging or sharing tutorials or
+
+00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:05.860
+whatever, that's then when you're an expert,
+
+00:45:06.340 --> 00:45:06.840
+when you're an experienced,
+
+00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:09.720
+to rather working out loud,
+
+00:45:11.520 --> 00:45:11.740
+thinking out loud, this is just that I'm
+
+00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:13.300
+learning along the way.
+
+00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:16.000
+And it might not be the most efficient way to
+
+00:45:17.720 --> 00:45:17.880
+do things, but this is what I'm doing right
+
+00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:18.380
+now.
+
+00:45:23.940 --> 00:45:24.180
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. And I had a handful of times where I
+
+00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:26.000
+posted something and someone was like,
+
+00:45:27.620 --> 00:45:27.900
+Oh yeah, this is, this would have you tried
+
+00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:30.420
+this? Or I'm like, I didn't even know that
+
+00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:32.940
+existed. That makes this easier.
+
+00:45:37.540 --> 00:45:37.740
+[Speaker 3]: I've written this like little hack and I'm
+
+00:45:38.860 --> 00:45:39.140
+very proud of it because it's clever.
+
+00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:39.920
+And then someone's like,
+
+00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:41.240
+Oh yeah, there's a package for that.
+
+00:45:42.720 --> 00:45:43.220
+It's called this. Right?
+
+00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:44.160
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you. Right? Yeah.
+
+00:45:49.380 --> 00:45:49.880
+It's just it's Yeah, it the fantastic part
+
+00:45:54.140 --> 00:45:54.240
+it. I played Legos as a kid and me and my
+
+00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:56.260
+friends would play Legos at the house.
+
+00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:01.300
+And Emacs has this like feeling of playing
+
+00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:04.540
+Legos with a group of people across the
+
+00:46:06.120 --> 00:46:06.620
+world. In fact, 1 of my current,
+
+00:46:09.080 --> 00:46:09.580
+well, 1 of my best friends now,
+
+00:46:14.040 --> 00:46:14.540
+we met a year ago. And it turns out we both
+
+00:46:18.460 --> 00:46:18.620
+love Emacs. We talk every Thursday and we
+
+00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:20.420
+hang out and we talk poetry.
+
+00:46:23.500 --> 00:46:24.000
+We talk Tom Petty. We talk Emacs.
+
+00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:25.420
+We talk software development.
+
+00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:27.340
+He does Python. I do Ruby.
+
+00:46:29.860 --> 00:46:30.360
+Just anything and everything.
+
+00:46:36.660 --> 00:46:36.820
+And it's also we both are curious because we
+
+00:46:38.100 --> 00:46:38.600
+don't use it the same way.
+
+00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:44.420
+And we like how we accomplish a task.
+
+00:46:47.020 --> 00:46:47.220
+I think that's the fascinating part to me is
+
+00:46:50.140 --> 00:46:50.580
+we each get to explore our way to interact
+
+00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:54.560
+with the computer uniquely by whatever
+
+00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:56.360
+pathways are in our brain.
+
+00:46:58.340 --> 00:46:58.520
+We see stuff, we pick it up,
+
+00:47:00.060 --> 00:47:00.240
+and we're like, that doesn't quite work for
+
+00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:02.460
+me, or, oh, that worked really well.
+
+00:47:06.660 --> 00:47:07.160
+Fascinating, like, I don't know,
+
+00:47:08.200 --> 00:47:08.700
+shared art installation.
+
+00:47:13.740 --> 00:47:14.020
+[Speaker 3]: I think you're onto something that I also
+
+00:47:15.460 --> 00:47:15.640
+resonate with. 1 of the things that
+
+00:47:18.820 --> 00:47:19.060
+fascinates me about Emacs is all these
+
+00:47:21.220 --> 00:47:21.720
+people's configuration jobs are crystallized
+
+00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:25.080
+workflows. And it's really when you talk to
+
+00:47:26.580 --> 00:47:27.080
+them and you see how they're using it,
+
+00:47:29.200 --> 00:47:29.540
+and you understand a little bit of their
+
+00:47:32.140 --> 00:47:32.320
+story and things that they need,
+
+00:47:33.160 --> 00:47:33.660
+the ideas they've had,
+
+00:47:35.640 --> 00:47:36.140
+that's really fascinating.
+
+00:47:37.580 --> 00:47:37.800
+And I think that's 1 of the things that makes
+
+00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:40.080
+it possible to be perpetually curious about
+
+00:47:42.660 --> 00:47:43.160
+Emacs, because it's not just the,
+
+00:47:43.820 --> 00:47:44.060
+you know, this is the,
+
+00:47:45.520 --> 00:47:45.920
+these are all the Lego pieces there are,
+
+00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:47.920
+but you have this community of people who are
+
+00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:50.820
+using these Lego bricks in such fascinating
+
+00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:53.940
+ways and always inventing new things for it.
+
+00:47:56.100 --> 00:47:56.600
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, new colors, new shapes,
+
+00:47:59.640 --> 00:48:00.140
+they show up. It's great.
+
+00:48:03.200 --> 00:48:03.400
+[Speaker 2]: It's like powered twice or something like
+
+00:48:06.040 --> 00:48:06.220
+that because it's like you can use Emacs with
+
+00:48:09.720 --> 00:48:10.220
+a thousand different customizations and then
+
+00:48:12.340 --> 00:48:12.720
+you can interact with people who can each
+
+00:48:16.540 --> 00:48:17.040
+also Use Emacs in a thousand different ways
+
+00:48:17.520 --> 00:48:17.800
+[Speaker 1]: Mm-hmm, Right,
+
+00:48:20.200 --> 00:48:20.280
+[Speaker 2]: Then you can both learn from each other and
+
+00:48:21.720 --> 00:48:22.040
+that can go a thousand different ways.
+
+00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:24.500
+So it's like, it's like powering your
+
+00:48:25.240 --> 00:48:25.680
+[Speaker 3]: Yep.
+
+00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:27.700
+[Speaker 2]: Something along those lines with each other
+
+00:48:30.720 --> 00:48:30.920
+and like how different and how much you can
+
+00:48:31.560 --> 00:48:32.060
+learn from it.
+
+00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:38.980
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, the kind of touching back to the mentee
+
+00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:42.380
+that I have who went, he had originally
+
+00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:44.980
+started in Vim and then did VS code.
+
+00:48:47.420 --> 00:48:47.600
+And then we were talking and he was gonna go
+
+00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:50.860
+into Emacs and I didn't have a,
+
+00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:52.360
+I mean, sure, that'd be great.
+
+00:48:53.860 --> 00:48:54.060
+But he's like, I don't have a lot of time.
+
+00:48:56.120 --> 00:48:56.620
+And I'm like, well, go back to the place that
+
+00:48:57.840 --> 00:48:58.340
+you have that experience.
+
+00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:01.280
+And he did, And then he started writing Lua
+
+00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:03.340
+plugins. He was like, this is so much fun.
+
+00:49:05.380 --> 00:49:05.880
+I'm like, good, you're on the right path.
+
+00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:11.340
+Like maybe there'll be space like over time,
+
+00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:14.360
+how Lua plugins and Emacs,
+
+00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:17.260
+you know, who knows? I know that Lua,
+
+00:49:19.040 --> 00:49:19.540
+you can use Fennel to write Lisp.
+
+00:49:24.240 --> 00:49:24.740
+In you write Lisp and it will transpile
+
+00:49:29.060 --> 00:49:29.560
+Fennel to Lua. I forget how that plays out,
+
+00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:32.080
+but we're not too far away from those 2
+
+00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:34.980
+things being able to play.
+
+00:49:39.020 --> 00:49:39.520
+But I guess the question is,
+
+00:49:41.980 --> 00:49:42.480
+does it need to? I don't know.
+
+00:49:44.540 --> 00:49:45.040
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I mean, even without direct code
+
+00:49:47.620 --> 00:49:48.120
+translation, the cross-pollination of ideas
+
+00:49:51.460 --> 00:49:51.960
+is certainly enough. I love the fact that
+
+00:49:54.720 --> 00:49:54.840
+people are borrowing ideas from VS Code and
+
+00:49:57.840 --> 00:49:58.040
+from Vim and people look at Emacs videos and
+
+00:49:58.840 --> 00:49:59.020
+other things and say, hey,
+
+00:49:59.860 --> 00:50:00.060
+that's a cool thing in Emacs,
+
+00:50:01.240 --> 00:50:01.680
+but I don't want to ever use Emacs.
+
+00:50:03.240 --> 00:50:03.740
+I'm going to do that whole thing in Vim.
+
+00:50:04.600 --> 00:50:05.100
+And I think that's fantastic.
+
+00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:07.820
+[Speaker 1]: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean,
+
+00:50:10.640 --> 00:50:11.140
+monocultures die. They just do.
+
+00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:17.340
+And computer software and computer industry
+
+00:50:24.120 --> 00:50:24.280
+pushes towards monoculture because of it
+
+00:50:26.660 --> 00:50:27.160
+wants the highest efficiency.
+
+00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:31.780
+And I'm like, I'm not,
+
+00:50:33.640 --> 00:50:34.140
+I mean, sometimes I'm here for that,
+
+00:50:35.600 --> 00:50:35.980
+but most of the time I'm like,
+
+00:50:37.120 --> 00:50:37.620
+I want the bumps and the warts.
+
+00:50:40.680 --> 00:50:41.180
+I want the art, the human interaction,
+
+00:50:42.720 --> 00:50:43.220
+the like, why are we trying to accomplish
+
+00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:43.860
+this?
+
+00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:46.620
+[Speaker 2]: It determines, It depends on how you
+
+00:50:49.640 --> 00:50:50.140
+determine efficiency because Emacs is far
+
+00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:53.240
+Even if Emacs isn't multi-threaded is far
+
+00:50:56.980 --> 00:50:57.480
+more efficient because because of the mental
+
+00:51:00.060 --> 00:51:00.220
+model shifts because you're able to play and
+
+00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:04.600
+tweak with it and then have as much of a
+
+00:51:07.160 --> 00:51:07.360
+mental model shift for each task change that
+
+00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:11.260
+you want. Like, yeah, I want my file manager
+
+00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:16.760
+to not be an editable text buffer.
+
+00:51:18.660 --> 00:51:19.120
+Although sometimes when I want to rename
+
+00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:20.820
+files, I want it to be that.
+
+00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:24.300
+[Speaker 1]: Right. Yeah, and really,
+
+00:51:26.640 --> 00:51:27.040
+like, to be clear, I like the idea of Emacs
+
+00:51:29.060 --> 00:51:29.340
+as a projection of, like,
+
+00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:30.660
+how I think about stuff.
+
+00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:33.960
+So it's that whatever my neurons have made a
+
+00:51:37.040 --> 00:51:37.280
+good pathway for, I can have Emacs flow with
+
+00:51:41.660 --> 00:51:42.160
+me. That efficiency side is I want a factory,
+
+00:51:43.080 --> 00:51:43.480
+I want to stamp out widgets,
+
+00:51:44.540 --> 00:51:44.720
+I want them to be the same,
+
+00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:45.650
+chop, chop, chop, chop,
+
+00:51:51.860 --> 00:51:52.360
+chop, chop. That emacs runs in its spirit
+
+00:51:57.180 --> 00:51:57.440
+along with vim contrary to that and I like
+
+00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:57.940
+that
+
+00:52:00.530 --> 00:52:00.720
+[Speaker 2]: emacs is a 1 of the things with the like the
+
+00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:03.680
+mental model of Emacs is you should look at
+
+00:52:06.180 --> 00:52:06.660
+Emacs like this is probably something that
+
+00:52:08.100 --> 00:52:08.320
+people should think about when they are
+
+00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:10.940
+introducing Emacs to other people is Emacs is
+
+00:52:15.720 --> 00:52:15.900
+a treasure trove of conflicting ways of
+
+00:52:18.080 --> 00:52:18.580
+solving the same problem so you get,
+
+00:52:22.040 --> 00:52:22.280
+so you can individuate yourself on how you
+
+00:52:23.520 --> 00:52:24.020
+actually want to solve that problem.
+
+00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:25.600
+[Speaker 3]: Do you
+
+00:52:26.700 --> 00:52:27.200
+[Speaker 2]: want Vim bindings or not?
+
+00:52:30.200 --> 00:52:30.580
+You get to choose. Or do you want Meow
+
+00:52:31.900 --> 00:52:32.400
+bindings? You can choose.
+
+00:52:34.780 --> 00:52:35.280
+[Speaker 1]: Yep. Absolutely. Yeah.
+
+00:52:38.780 --> 00:52:39.040
+I, I came, I'm, I consider my,
+
+00:52:42.380 --> 00:52:42.660
+I, I lament because in 2005 I almost picked
+
+00:52:46.100 --> 00:52:46.240
+up Emacs and it wasn't until 2020 that I
+
+00:52:49.040 --> 00:52:49.440
+picked it up. And fortunately I picked it up
+
+00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:54.500
+when I did because I was able to look at
+
+00:52:58.020 --> 00:52:58.520
+things I had previously accomplished and find
+
+00:53:05.140 --> 00:53:05.420
+analogs And things like Helm and Ivy were
+
+00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:09.440
+both 2 different ways of doing it and consult
+
+00:53:11.600 --> 00:53:12.100
+and then, or Selectrum and then consult,
+
+00:53:15.860 --> 00:53:16.060
+like they all had these different ways And it
+
+00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:19.400
+felt great because I could find the thing
+
+00:53:24.520 --> 00:53:25.020
+that worked for me. And they're close,
+
+00:53:27.680 --> 00:53:27.840
+but then they also like branch out and do
+
+00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:30.860
+things differently. And it was so fascinating
+
+00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.020
+to explore each of those and spend an hour or
+
+00:53:39.100 --> 00:53:39.360
+2 on a primary task in seeing where that
+
+00:53:42.040 --> 00:53:42.540
+little thread went. It's great.
+
+00:53:47.200 --> 00:53:47.600
+[Speaker 3]: So tell me a bit more about how you got into
+
+00:53:51.040 --> 00:53:51.300
+Emacs. What pulled you
+
+00:53:55.120 --> 00:53:55.620
+[Speaker 1]: in? Yeah, this is a great little moment.
+
+00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:00.180
+I started in TextMate,
+
+00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:03.420
+That's kind of where I would say the
+
+00:54:06.460 --> 00:54:06.660
+beginning for coding for open source and
+
+00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:08.340
+using open source software.
+
+00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:11.920
+Sorry, using open source frameworks and
+
+00:54:14.540 --> 00:54:15.040
+languages. So TextMate to Sublime,
+
+00:54:18.260 --> 00:54:18.580
+basically TextMate couldn't search very well
+
+00:54:20.740 --> 00:54:21.060
+at the time. It was getting bogged down.
+
+00:54:21.640 --> 00:54:22.080
+So I moved to Sublime,
+
+00:54:23.260 --> 00:54:23.760
+which solved it, felt well,
+
+00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:28.400
+carried the same UI look with me.
+
+00:54:30.680 --> 00:54:31.180
+And then when I was at a conference,
+
+00:54:34.540 --> 00:54:34.860
+there was a talk about using an open source
+
+00:54:36.600 --> 00:54:36.880
+editor. I was like, yeah,
+
+00:54:38.720 --> 00:54:39.220
+I need to do that. I really need to.
+
+00:54:43.080 --> 00:54:43.260
+And Adam was viable. I was like,
+
+00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:44.820
+Oh, this is really close.
+
+00:54:47.120 --> 00:54:47.360
+I'll use it. And I didn't think too much
+
+00:54:49.540 --> 00:54:49.680
+about it. And then the writing was on the
+
+00:54:51.120 --> 00:54:51.620
+wall, that Adam is going away.
+
+00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:56.040
+And I was like, I need to find an open source
+
+00:54:57.100 --> 00:54:57.600
+editor that speaks to me.
+
+00:54:59.200 --> 00:54:59.440
+And I said, all right,
+
+00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:01.260
+Vim, This is my fifth time.
+
+00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:06.800
+I will try. And I gave an earnest 2 weeks.
+
+00:55:09.060 --> 00:55:09.440
+And I'm just like, I cannot get this mental
+
+00:55:11.600 --> 00:55:11.840
+model in my head. So I'm like,
+
+00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:13.200
+all right, I set it down.
+
+00:55:14.540 --> 00:55:15.040
+I can use Vim, I'm comfortable.
+
+00:55:15.940 --> 00:55:16.360
+I think it's a great tool,
+
+00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:19.500
+but my mental model doesn't map well there.
+
+00:55:21.040 --> 00:55:21.420
+And I'm like, all right,
+
+00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:25.280
+here we go, VS code. All right,
+
+00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:28.520
+you're fine. But I feel like I might
+
+00:55:31.340 --> 00:55:31.500
+accidentally charge my credit card in the
+
+00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:33.500
+text editor on the default installation.
+
+00:55:38.680 --> 00:55:39.180
+And that was alluded to by in 1 of the talks,
+
+00:55:46.120 --> 00:55:46.620
+I forget who he German about mandating Emacs
+
+00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:48.500
+in his computer science classes.
+
+00:55:51.020 --> 00:55:51.220
+He mentioned like the Microsoft Office or
+
+00:55:54.060 --> 00:55:54.560
+Microsoft Marketplace felt like it was there.
+
+00:55:58.860 --> 00:55:59.060
+So that was 1, but the moment where I was
+
+00:56:02.380 --> 00:56:02.880
+like, oh, hell no, VS Code.
+
+00:56:08.520 --> 00:56:08.940
+Or I wanted to use a commit from the command
+
+00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:12.780
+palette, and it brought up an HTML text input
+
+00:56:15.060 --> 00:56:15.560
+area, and it was 30 characters.
+
+00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:23.500
+And in that moment, I saw several things.
+
+00:56:27.040 --> 00:56:27.140
+1, I'm like, no, that's terrible because I
+
+00:56:28.100 --> 00:56:28.600
+want to write something meaningful.
+
+00:56:33.640 --> 00:56:33.900
+2, this is the behavior that this tool is
+
+00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:39.240
+modeling. That tells me that history and like
+
+00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:41.820
+how it is built is not important.
+
+00:56:47.160 --> 00:56:47.320
+And yes, I can fix it and get around it.
+
+00:56:49.240 --> 00:56:49.740
+And I kind of did. And I was like,
+
+00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:51.860
+the principles are just,
+
+00:56:53.680 --> 00:56:54.180
+they're there. And then also understanding
+
+00:56:56.100 --> 00:56:56.600
+like there's a bunch of telemetry underneath
+
+00:56:58.860 --> 00:56:59.360
+it. So I used VS Codium,
+
+00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:00.740
+there's still telemetry.
+
+00:57:03.340 --> 00:57:03.840
+And I was like, all right,
+
+00:57:07.380 --> 00:57:07.880
+2005 Jeremy, let's go try Emacs,
+
+00:57:08.940 --> 00:57:09.440
+let's see if we can do it.
+
+00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:14.360
+And I hopped in, I grabbed Space Max.
+
+00:57:16.640 --> 00:57:17.020
+I was Like, yeah, this works pretty well.
+
+00:57:18.740 --> 00:57:18.960
+Like, I don't know how to use the keys very
+
+00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:21.380
+well. I'm figuring it out.
+
+00:57:26.040 --> 00:57:26.400
+And. And I was like, you know what?
+
+00:57:27.340 --> 00:57:27.840
+Why don't I do the tutorial?
+
+00:57:30.860 --> 00:57:31.360
+And it was the tutorial that hooked me.
+
+00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:37.320
+Not because everything made 100% sense
+
+00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:42.620
+because Emacs is old. It had a lot of
+
+00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:45.920
+language that was hard to internalize,
+
+00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:50.740
+but it presented it in a conversational I'm
+
+00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:52.600
+gonna meet you where you're at and we're
+
+00:57:53.440 --> 00:57:53.940
+gonna walk with it together.
+
+00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:56.980
+And then when I was done with the tutorial,
+
+00:57:58.420 --> 00:57:58.740
+I said, you know, Space Max,
+
+00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:00.060
+I don't understand it.
+
+00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:01.420
+And it's got some performance.
+
+00:58:04.180 --> 00:58:04.300
+It looks like there's like extra stuff that I
+
+00:58:08.420 --> 00:58:08.920
+may not need. So I went vanilla,
+
+00:58:11.780 --> 00:58:12.280
+nothing Emacs and just started working.
+
+00:58:14.060 --> 00:58:14.560
+I was like, well, how do you do this?
+
+00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:17.460
+[Speaker 2]: Although 5 minutes of Space Max or any of
+
+00:58:19.600 --> 00:58:20.100
+those Emacs distribution shows you
+
+00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:22.860
+unequivocally how different it can be.
+
+00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:26.380
+[Speaker 1]: It was, it was, it was so amazing,
+
+00:58:31.600 --> 00:58:32.100
+and it was so good. But I knew my nature was,
+
+00:58:34.780 --> 00:58:35.140
+I was frustrated in, like I wrote an Atom
+
+00:58:37.780 --> 00:58:38.280
+package, and that was awful.
+
+00:58:42.860 --> 00:58:43.360
+It was so terrible. But I knew what I wanted.
+
+00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:48.480
+And then I wrote, I started writing a VS code
+
+00:58:49.640 --> 00:58:49.840
+and I'm like, oh no, no,
+
+00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:51.300
+no, we're not here for this.
+
+00:58:55.520 --> 00:58:55.800
+And so, yeah, SpaceMax showed me like this
+
+00:59:00.600 --> 00:59:00.760
+can look and feel like a space that I used to
+
+00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:04.420
+be in. And then it has more functionality,
+
+00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:07.940
+more stuff. It's gonna be great.
+
+00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:10.380
+And then I just was like,
+
+00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:12.380
+I'm gonna go find my own.
+
+00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:16.200
+I'm really happy that I took the path because
+
+00:59:19.300 --> 00:59:19.640
+I just worked, wrote, and I'm like,
+
+00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:21.380
+I bet you this, I bet you the tool,
+
+00:59:22.540 --> 00:59:22.960
+I know it can do this because it,
+
+00:59:24.620 --> 00:59:25.120
+you know, text me, did this or Adam,
+
+00:59:27.800 --> 00:59:28.300
+I'm gonna go, I went on to Melpa and I found
+
+00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:29.940
+a couple different things.
+
+00:59:31.120 --> 00:59:31.440
+I'm like, all right, let's try them.
+
+00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:32.640
+I'm like, that's the 1,
+
+00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:34.980
+great. Roll it in, keep working.
+
+00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:36.500
+I know it can do this.
+
+00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:40.160
+Find a package. And so I built up this sense
+
+00:59:46.060 --> 00:59:46.160
+of the packages and my strategy was go to
+
+00:59:49.680 --> 00:59:49.940
+Melpa, look at, that was the 1 that showed
+
+00:59:52.540 --> 00:59:53.040
+up, look at the number of downloads.
+
+00:59:54.520 --> 00:59:54.960
+So I'm like, what's the high stuff?
+
+00:59:55.900 --> 00:59:56.400
+What really gets used?
+
+00:59:57.680 --> 00:59:58.180
+There's something there.
+
+01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:00.760
+And then also look at what was most recently
+
+01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:03.580
+updated. So kind of pivot on those along with
+
+01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:07.260
+a keyword search and I found the tools that
+
+01:00:17.780 --> 01:00:18.100
+worked well. But it really came down to like
+
+01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:20.460
+that VS Code I was almost in,
+
+01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:24.640
+but I've been around long enough to know what
+
+01:00:25.560 --> 01:00:26.060
+Microsoft will do.
+
+01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:32.540
+[Speaker 2]: For me, I was always like customizing things.
+
+01:00:34.600 --> 01:00:35.100
+I think I saw some interesting emacs videos.
+
+01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:42.720
+I wanted to try Well, I wanted to try working
+
+01:00:44.500 --> 01:00:44.720
+more with the keyboard and not need I think
+
+01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:47.300
+[Speaker 1]: mm-hmm
+
+01:00:51.180 --> 01:00:51.680
+[Speaker 2]: the mouse on a laptop And so I was looking
+
+01:00:54.380 --> 01:00:54.520
+explicitly for ways to just work on the
+
+01:00:56.920 --> 01:00:57.400
+keyboard only, which meant that I wasn't
+
+01:00:59.060 --> 01:00:59.560
+looking for programs that followed Cua,
+
+01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:04.900
+which really leaves you like 2 options,
+
+01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:11.380
+Vim and Emacs. And when I looked at the 2,
+
+01:01:13.940 --> 01:01:14.100
+I saw 1 of the big differentiating factors I
+
+01:01:15.660 --> 01:01:16.020
+saw was Tramp, which was,
+
+01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:18.600
+oh, you mean I get a SSH into a machine and
+
+01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:20.340
+have my customizations too?
+
+01:01:22.740 --> 01:01:23.240
+[Speaker 1]: Yep. Yeah.
+
+01:01:29.140 --> 01:01:29.540
+[Speaker 2]: And then I started using Emacs more and more.
+
+01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:34.860
+Eventually I combined that with a tiling
+
+01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:36.900
+window manager, NixOS,
+
+01:01:40.840 --> 01:01:41.040
+and started banishing as much of the GUI as I
+
+01:01:44.060 --> 01:01:44.560
+possibly could, running MPV or VLC,
+
+01:01:49.180 --> 01:01:49.400
+so I could edit so that my config files could
+
+01:01:53.720 --> 01:01:54.020
+be keyboard oriented. My settings config
+
+01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:56.420
+menus are now keyboard oriented.
+
+01:02:00.860 --> 01:02:01.080
+And yeah, that was the incremental process of
+
+01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:04.900
+just, yeah, making the computer nicer,
+
+01:02:06.680 --> 01:02:06.860
+more efficient, and then you figure out all
+
+01:02:08.080 --> 01:02:08.580
+the other advantages of the...
+
+01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:13.780
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. How did you get in to it,
+
+01:02:18.940 --> 01:02:19.440
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, you're lost.
+
+01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:22.340
+[Speaker 1]: Sasha? Your sound is gone.
+
+01:02:27.345 --> 01:02:27.845
+[Speaker 3]: Sorry, my face mute button.
+
+01:02:29.600 --> 01:02:29.800
+Okay, I'll tell you that story,
+
+01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:31.080
+I get thought out of my head,
+
+01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:33.240
+so I forget it. But what you described,
+
+01:02:34.900 --> 01:02:35.080
+Jerry, about kind of starting with the
+
+01:02:37.340 --> 01:02:37.540
+distribution and then pulling back and
+
+01:02:39.140 --> 01:02:39.520
+starting with vanilla and building up,
+
+01:02:41.040 --> 01:02:41.320
+kind of close the stories that I've heard
+
+01:02:42.980 --> 01:02:43.480
+from a lot of people in the community where
+
+01:02:46.600 --> 01:02:46.800
+the distribution gives them kind of an end
+
+01:02:48.140 --> 01:02:48.640
+goal, at least work requirements,
+
+01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:50.600
+So get the stuff done and they're not
+
+01:02:52.260 --> 01:02:52.760
+slugging through the weeds around the start.
+
+01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:55.760
+I have a hard time modifying it because
+
+01:02:57.440 --> 01:02:57.720
+modifying the distribution itself is very
+
+01:02:59.140 --> 01:02:59.640
+different from the tools they see.
+
+01:03:01.520 --> 01:03:01.740
+They feel like they want to understand the
+
+01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:02.820
+different possible part.
+
+01:03:04.240 --> 01:03:04.540
+And so then they pull back and say,
+
+01:03:06.300 --> 01:03:06.800
+okay, I've got this thing that can use
+
+01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:08.680
+everything to just get some quick work done,
+
+01:03:10.380 --> 01:03:10.760
+but I have this thing that I can call,
+
+01:03:13.500 --> 01:03:13.680
+that's mine. And I understand because I'm
+
+01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:16.460
+building it up from the ground up.
+
+01:03:19.540 --> 01:03:19.640
+Okay, so that's like, oh,
+
+01:03:21.500 --> 01:03:21.660
+interesting, there's a lot of people who are
+
+01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:24.280
+like that, and it really helps them to both
+
+01:03:27.240 --> 01:03:27.620
+have that insight, which is see through
+
+01:03:29.540 --> 01:03:29.780
+distributions and also videos of other
+
+01:03:32.060 --> 01:03:32.220
+people's workflows and press kind of
+
+01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:34.500
+conference presentations often about
+
+01:03:35.140 --> 01:03:35.540
+completely different topics,
+
+01:03:37.540 --> 01:03:37.700
+right? So someone whizzing through Ruby on
+
+01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:40.420
+Rails or whatever else and doing all of this.
+
+01:03:43.580 --> 01:03:44.040
+But also having 1 help them break out,
+
+01:03:46.560 --> 01:03:46.760
+okay, well, there's a lot of work from where
+
+01:03:47.900 --> 01:03:48.160
+I am to where that is.
+
+01:03:49.740 --> 01:03:50.240
+How do I do it without being overwhelmed?
+
+01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:52.960
+Because if they try to learn everything,
+
+01:03:55.520 --> 01:03:55.760
+they'll go crazy. And then they'll fall.
+
+01:03:57.500 --> 01:03:58.000
+And the brain is super important.
+
+01:04:01.500 --> 01:04:01.860
+And how I got into this whole eMac thing was
+
+01:04:03.520 --> 01:04:03.780
+I was reading all the computer science books
+
+01:04:06.180 --> 01:04:06.480
+in the university library and 1 of the Unix
+
+01:04:09.160 --> 01:04:09.360
+power tools had a chapter on Emacs and had
+
+01:04:11.040 --> 01:04:11.320
+them you know well there's another type of
+
+01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:14.760
+whatever. Okay that's interesting so I went
+
+01:04:17.080 --> 01:04:17.320
+and tried it out But the reason I really got
+
+01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:19.780
+into it was because I was using John Wigley's
+
+01:04:23.520 --> 01:04:23.760
+Planner Mode. This was before Org Mode came
+
+01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:25.600
+about. So Planner Mode was a link.
+
+01:04:27.040 --> 01:04:27.540
+I said, hey, this is great.
+
+01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:29.880
+I'm looking for ways to help out.
+
+01:04:31.560 --> 01:04:32.060
+If you need help verifying any bugs,
+
+01:04:34.160 --> 01:04:34.660
+you know, send it to me and I'll do the
+
+01:04:37.540 --> 01:04:37.840
+figuring out. He's an author and an inventor.
+
+01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:38.100
+[Speaker 2]: And then
+
+01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:39.980
+[Speaker 3]: he made me the miniature for it.
+
+01:04:42.720 --> 01:04:42.880
+So I'm like, okay. And then that's how I got
+
+01:04:44.680 --> 01:04:45.140
+to know this wonderful community of people
+
+01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:47.340
+who customize emacs so much.
+
+01:04:51.680 --> 01:04:52.180
+And it just goes there because really,
+
+01:04:54.100 --> 01:04:54.240
+when you see all these different ways that
+
+01:04:55.860 --> 01:04:56.360
+people use in all these different stories
+
+01:05:00.060 --> 01:05:00.480
+that you get send off because they're using
+
+01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:04.460
+it to bake sourdough bread and do knitting
+
+01:05:06.700 --> 01:05:06.880
+and all the crazy things that people come up
+
+01:05:08.900 --> 01:05:09.400
+with. I've been using it as an audio editor.
+
+01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:11.500
+It's just weird. It's just fun.
+
+01:05:13.100 --> 01:05:13.600
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that's great.
+
+01:05:19.640 --> 01:05:20.020
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah. Every, Sasha, like 2 things that I was
+
+01:05:22.900 --> 01:05:23.040
+meaning to say is every time I see the on the
+
+01:05:26.140 --> 01:05:26.580
+EMAX conference the time that the scratch
+
+01:05:29.900 --> 01:05:30.400
+buffer with the big clock that is ticking
+
+01:05:34.980 --> 01:05:35.480
+down as and the multi multiple sized fonts As
+
+01:05:37.720 --> 01:05:37.900
+I always think wow, that's really cool.
+
+01:05:38.980 --> 01:05:39.280
+I didn't know Emacs could do that.
+
+01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:40.940
+Wait, no, I saw that last year.
+
+01:05:43.860 --> 01:05:44.060
+How do you do, now, how do I do that?
+
+01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:45.480
+Cause that's not, and that's not something I
+
+01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:47.420
+normally even think about Emacs doing.
+
+01:05:48.080 --> 01:05:48.580
+[Speaker 1]: Right.
+
+01:05:51.220 --> 01:05:51.720
+[Speaker 2]: I'll think about putting
+
+01:05:55.760 --> 01:05:56.260
+[Speaker 3]: There's an EmacsConf-stream.el
+
+01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:00.260
+in the EmacsConf-el repository.
+
+01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:04.160
+Grab the link and open but you can grab the
+
+01:06:07.940 --> 01:06:08.260
+code from there. It's basically the text
+
+01:06:08.260 --> 01:06:08.760
+property.
+
+01:06:15.020 --> 01:06:15.480
+[Speaker 2]: But it's a thought that has repeated multiple
+
+01:06:17.140 --> 01:06:17.460
+years. Like, I didn't know we could do that
+
+01:06:18.220 --> 01:06:18.720
+way. I thought about that.
+
+01:06:21.260 --> 01:06:21.600
+I had this exact thought last year when I saw
+
+01:06:21.600 --> 01:06:22.100
+it.
+
+01:06:28.260 --> 01:06:28.480
+[Speaker 1]: It's, we're like, I'm at the point where it's
+
+01:06:31.220 --> 01:06:31.620
+like I have memories of remembering doing
+
+01:06:34.540 --> 01:06:35.040
+something. I don't have memories of doing it.
+
+01:06:36.680 --> 01:06:37.180
+Like all of the things.
+
+01:06:40.560 --> 01:06:41.060
+Like so it's again, we,
+
+01:06:45.240 --> 01:06:45.740
+Emacs helps expose like the,
+
+01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:49.140
+like it's, anything's possible.
+
+01:06:53.300 --> 01:06:53.560
+And we see how it becomes possible through
+
+01:06:55.640 --> 01:06:56.120
+other people. And then it gets our brains
+
+01:06:57.780 --> 01:06:58.140
+thinking about other ways of doing stuff.
+
+01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:00.420
+And I think that's the exciting part.
+
+01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:02.860
+Dog who wants to go play Frisbee.
+
+01:07:07.900 --> 01:07:08.080
+[Speaker 3]: And that's actually 1 of the reasons why I
+
+01:07:11.060 --> 01:07:11.320
+want to encourage people to not only talk
+
+01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:12.980
+about Emacs and write Emacs blog posts,
+
+01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:15.520
+but also actually demonstrate Emacs in the
+
+01:07:16.560 --> 01:07:17.060
+sense of doing something else.
+
+01:07:20.220 --> 01:07:20.720
+So for example, we can match people at Emacs
+
+01:07:23.560 --> 01:07:24.000
+if you're presenting about Ruby on Rails and
+
+01:07:27.040 --> 01:07:27.440
+you're doing all of your and education and
+
+01:07:30.240 --> 01:07:30.480
+things while you're presenting Rails,
+
+01:07:32.900 --> 01:07:33.400
+you reach all these people who are interested
+
+01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:34.780
+in Rails, developer Rails,
+
+01:07:36.260 --> 01:07:36.760
+but might not have even considered Emacs.
+
+01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:42.420
+And here, you know, you probably would.
+
+01:07:44.860 --> 01:07:45.060
+I would probably have a hard time writing an
+
+01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:47.540
+entire talk about adding text properties,
+
+01:07:49.540 --> 01:07:49.760
+but the fact that there's a thing here that
+
+01:07:50.800 --> 01:07:51.300
+shows, hey, this is possible,
+
+01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:53.300
+Emacs can get people to think,
+
+01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:55.380
+okay, so how do I get from here to there?
+
+01:07:57.440 --> 01:07:57.940
+Just showing the possible.
+
+01:08:02.120 --> 01:08:02.360
+Yeah. Which source code is in the,
+
+01:08:02.360 --> 01:08:02.860
+whatchamacallit.
+
+01:08:04.600 --> 01:08:05.100
+[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah. Yeah, I just saw that.
+
+01:08:08.240 --> 01:08:08.740
+[Speaker 2]: There's a weird interesting thing how Emacs
+
+01:08:12.540 --> 01:08:12.720
+dovetails with people who are interested in
+
+01:08:15.940 --> 01:08:16.439
+making their own local first Zettelkasten,
+
+01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:18.220
+because look at how many Zettelkasten
+
+01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:21.600
+packages you have. Especially with how much,
+
+01:08:23.800 --> 01:08:24.100
+like it feels like, it seems like Emacs has
+
+01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:27.939
+more than Vim, but Vim is bigger or VS,
+
+01:08:30.140 --> 01:08:30.420
+feels like it has more than Vim or VS Code,
+
+01:08:31.920 --> 01:08:32.319
+and VS Code's bigger. I'm not sure,
+
+01:08:36.819 --> 01:08:37.319
+but it feels like it. Same thing with that
+
+01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:40.420
+HyperCore. That HyperCore felt more like a
+
+01:08:42.540 --> 01:08:43.040
+local first peer-to-peer system.
+
+01:08:48.240 --> 01:08:48.640
+So there's a weird dovetail where they want
+
+01:08:52.279 --> 01:08:52.779
+the knowledge bases that are local first,
+
+01:08:58.260 --> 01:08:58.359
+comprehensive, because 1 of the properties of
+
+01:09:03.500 --> 01:09:03.740
+the Zettelkasten or Org Mode agendas is that
+
+01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:07.819
+it's all your notes in 1 place.
+
+01:09:14.439 --> 01:09:14.760
+It's not, you know, your notes in either pad
+
+01:09:19.540 --> 01:09:20.040
+and your notes in Google Calendar,
+
+01:09:23.180 --> 01:09:23.680
+your notes in 20 different places,
+
+01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:25.020
+your notes in Evernote.
+
+01:09:28.700 --> 01:09:29.060
+It's your notes in 1 program in 1 place
+
+01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:31.080
+because you have to deal with them And
+
+01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:32.800
+they're going to be in files on your hard
+
+01:09:34.279 --> 01:09:34.779
+drive, and you're going to have packages
+
+01:09:37.080 --> 01:09:37.359
+there. That's the other weird thing too,
+
+01:09:40.240 --> 01:09:40.600
+is how many, like, you install an Emacs
+
+01:09:41.399 --> 01:09:41.899
+package, 1 of the guarantees,
+
+01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:43.640
+some of the guarantees you seem to get with
+
+01:09:46.260 --> 01:09:46.680
+it is if it does use an external program,
+
+01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:48.580
+it's going to have a lot of configuration in
+
+01:09:51.020 --> 01:09:51.520
+Emacs. It's going to be installed.
+
+01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:54.260
+It's going to be local first.
+
+01:09:56.780 --> 01:09:57.100
+Cause like you have flow bits,
+
+01:09:59.340 --> 01:09:59.840
+but how many programs like are,
+
+01:10:05.140 --> 01:10:05.280
+are cloud first. And it feels like most of
+
+01:10:06.820 --> 01:10:07.320
+those are like org Trello,
+
+01:10:10.160 --> 01:10:10.520
+where it's like, I want to use org mode,
+
+01:10:12.040 --> 01:10:12.540
+but other people use Trello.
+
+01:10:15.460 --> 01:10:15.780
+So I'm going to be grudgingly using this org
+
+01:10:17.400 --> 01:10:17.660
+Trello to be a bridge between the 2,
+
+01:10:19.200 --> 01:10:19.640
+not because I wanted to use org,
+
+01:10:21.240 --> 01:10:21.360
+not because I wanted to use Trello in the
+
+01:10:23.200 --> 01:10:23.320
+first place or I started off with Trello and
+
+01:10:24.280 --> 01:10:24.780
+now I wanna use org mode.
+
+01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:28.180
+[Speaker 1]: Right, no, you're that local first.
+
+01:10:37.020 --> 01:10:37.400
+The Thought I have is with the 2022 interest
+
+01:10:43.080 --> 01:10:43.580
+rates going up, the era of free money,
+
+01:10:46.520 --> 01:10:47.020
+or even like getting money for more,
+
+01:10:49.960 --> 01:10:50.180
+more money than it actually costs Like it was
+
+01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:56.100
+minting money. We are going to be seeing how
+
+01:10:59.440 --> 01:10:59.940
+these organizations that had financial
+
+01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:02.340
+runways, all of these cloud services,
+
+01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:07.020
+what's not gonna last because there's no
+
+01:11:12.440 --> 01:11:12.880
+funding. And like the durability of our local
+
+01:11:16.400 --> 01:11:16.900
+first plain text, free open source stuff.
+
+01:11:21.320 --> 01:11:21.820
+Like I won't have to do a content migration
+
+01:11:24.320 --> 01:11:24.740
+unless I get a B of my bonnet and want to
+
+01:11:27.700 --> 01:11:27.880
+like change from org mode to markdown for
+
+01:11:30.660 --> 01:11:30.920
+some reason. Like I have it and Then I can
+
+01:11:32.980 --> 01:11:33.480
+send it out. So there's also like that posse
+
+01:11:36.400 --> 01:11:36.900
+principle publish on-site syndicate
+
+01:11:41.660 --> 01:11:41.820
+everywhere Is what emacs and vim like they
+
+01:11:42.780 --> 01:11:43.280
+allow for us to do?
+
+01:11:46.440 --> 01:11:46.620
+[Speaker 2]: Well, that's part of the individuation is you
+
+01:11:48.900 --> 01:11:49.080
+have multiple options of doing something so
+
+01:11:51.580 --> 01:11:51.820
+you can choose something so you can take
+
+01:11:54.360 --> 01:11:54.860
+ownership of your data in the way you want.
+
+01:12:00.220 --> 01:12:00.380
+It all dovetails into each other and I think
+
+01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:03.260
+that's something worth thinking about,
+
+01:12:05.540 --> 01:12:05.800
+especially in relation with who should learn
+
+01:12:08.040 --> 01:12:08.440
+and how should you introduce Emacs to people,
+
+01:12:14.180 --> 01:12:14.420
+because like, with the idea of people should
+
+01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:16.800
+try an Emacs distribution and then start
+
+01:12:17.240 --> 01:12:17.740
+their own from scratch,
+
+01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:19.120
+just so that they, like,
+
+01:12:20.280 --> 01:12:20.640
+if you use it for 10 minutes,
+
+01:12:24.400 --> 01:12:24.820
+you'll gain so much because you use your 3
+
+01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:26.260
+and then all of a sudden you realize,
+
+01:12:29.180 --> 01:12:29.440
+you also know how malleable Emacs can be.
+
+01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:30.960
+And then you start saying,
+
+01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:32.160
+now, how do I do that?
+
+01:12:33.240 --> 01:12:33.740
+So I get to make those choices?
+
+01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:35.340
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah.
+
+01:12:39.340 --> 01:12:39.520
+[Speaker 2]: Or you might say, this person did it well
+
+01:12:40.320 --> 01:12:40.820
+enough, I don't have to.
+
+01:12:43.500 --> 01:12:43.900
+[Speaker 3]: That reminded me of something that I also
+
+01:12:45.360 --> 01:12:45.860
+wanted to mention, shocking word,
+
+01:12:49.040 --> 01:12:49.280
+as in malleability. Another tip I came
+
+01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:50.900
+across, don't know from whom,
+
+01:12:51.500 --> 01:12:51.700
+might have been from you,
+
+01:12:53.440 --> 01:12:53.940
+I don't know, is to define aliases,
+
+01:12:56.320 --> 01:12:56.460
+because we use different words from what the
+
+01:12:58.680 --> 01:12:59.180
+functions are. It's 1 of those little meta
+
+01:13:00.420 --> 01:13:00.720
+things that, you know,
+
+01:13:02.080 --> 01:13:02.580
+If you keep calling it something else,
+
+01:13:05.900 --> 01:13:06.020
+just define it so that you can call it like
+
+01:13:06.760 --> 01:13:07.260
+commencing your words.
+
+01:13:12.440 --> 01:13:12.740
+[Speaker 1]: it's interesting. Anyway,
+
+01:13:14.020 --> 01:13:14.240
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Yeah, gotta go disappear and get ready
+
+01:13:17.220 --> 01:13:17.360
+for my dog. Okay, I'll listen to what you
+
+01:13:18.120 --> 01:13:18.280
+say. All right, I
+
+01:13:20.020 --> 01:13:20.520
+[Speaker 1]: I need to take my dogs out and play Frisbee.
+
+01:13:21.780 --> 01:13:22.280
+They have been so patient.
+
+01:13:26.040 --> 01:13:26.200
+So it was great talking with all of you and
+
+01:13:29.640 --> 01:13:30.040
+Sasha, thanks for the organizing energy
+
+01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:32.120
+you've put into this. Plasma Strike,
+
+01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:33.300
+thank you for your presentation.
+
+01:13:34.860 --> 01:13:35.360
+I love this conference.
+
+01:13:36.660 --> 01:13:37.160
+So thank you very much.
+
+01:13:41.760 --> 01:13:42.260
+And now have a good rest of your Sunday.
+
+01:13:43.100 --> 01:13:43.600
+Bye.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-nabokov--why-nabokov-would-use-orgmode-if-he-were-writing-today--edmund-jorgensen--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-nabokov--why-nabokov-would-use-orgmode-if-he-were-writing-today--edmund-jorgensen--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..20053853
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-nabokov--why-nabokov-would-use-orgmode-if-he-were-writing-today--edmund-jorgensen--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,680 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:04.059
+[Speaker 0]: About 3
+
+00:00:16.020 --> 00:00:16.400
+seconds. And I believe we are live.
+
+00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:17.780
+Hi Edmund, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:19.240 --> 00:00:19.540
+[Speaker 1]: Hi, how's it going Leo?
+
+00:00:20.279 --> 00:00:20.560
+I'm doing well, thanks.
+
+00:00:20.560 --> 00:00:21.060
+Yourself?
+
+00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:24.640
+[Speaker 0]: I'm also doing well. So Edmund doesn't have
+
+00:00:26.980 --> 00:00:27.259
+his webcam on but he will be able to answer
+
+00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:30.360
+questions that you ask inside of the Azure
+
+00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:32.659
+pad that I've shared again on IRC.
+
+00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:35.560
+By the way, we only have 1 question and we
+
+00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:37.620
+have about 40 minutes of question time,
+
+00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:40.520
+so feel free to add as many questions as you
+
+00:00:41.940 --> 00:00:42.340
+want and in the meantime,
+
+00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:43.660
+we'll get started on the first 1.
+
+00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:45.060
+Unless, Edmond, do you have anything to say
+
+00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:46.420
+after your presentation?
+
+00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:48.780
+[Speaker 1]: No, we can jump in.
+
+00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:52.060
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, lovely. So first question,
+
+00:00:54.940 --> 00:00:55.200
+is the index, sorry, does the index really
+
+00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:58.100
+matter here? I mean his colleague is also
+
+00:01:00.380 --> 00:01:00.560
+using some A4 paper and you think that the
+
+00:01:02.400 --> 00:01:02.900
+index card is the most important thing here?
+
+00:01:04.540 --> 00:01:04.920
+[Speaker 1]: That's a great question.
+
+00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:08.200
+I mean, I think you can do anything with a
+
+00:01:09.520 --> 00:01:09.720
+larger piece of paper that you can do with a
+
+00:01:10.240 --> 00:01:10.460
+smaller piece of paper.
+
+00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:12.479
+But I actually encourage you to try this out.
+
+00:01:14.820 --> 00:01:15.020
+I did, not for research for this talk,
+
+00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:17.160
+but just when I read about Nabokov and his
+
+00:01:18.160 --> 00:01:18.400
+index cards to begin with,
+
+00:01:20.380 --> 00:01:20.660
+I kind of tried it out a little bit and wrote
+
+00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:22.720
+some shorter things on index cards and so on
+
+00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:25.120
+and there really is something about the size
+
+00:01:27.940 --> 00:01:28.440
+and the kind of ability to manipulate them.
+
+00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:30.360
+You really can bundle them and move them
+
+00:01:33.420 --> 00:01:33.720
+around easier and I think that that I think
+
+00:01:35.800 --> 00:01:35.920
+he enjoyed that. So sure I mean I think you
+
+00:01:37.540 --> 00:01:37.660
+can do anything with a4 paper that you could
+
+00:01:38.860 --> 00:01:39.140
+do with index cards but I think there's
+
+00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:41.200
+something about that form that lends itself
+
+00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:44.160
+to the especially to the reorganization maybe
+
+00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:45.820
+to the focus as well just because it's
+
+00:01:47.060 --> 00:01:47.220
+smaller but but definitely to the
+
+00:01:47.220 --> 00:01:47.720
+reorganization.
+
+00:01:53.600 --> 00:01:53.940
+[Speaker 0]: Definitely So we have a lot more questions
+
+00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:54.960
+now. So thank you, everyone,
+
+00:01:56.479 --> 00:01:56.979
+for answering my plea for more questions.
+
+00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:00.060
+Next question. How do you explore the second
+
+00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:02.080
+level headings, i.e. The scenes in this
+
+00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:04.100
+example, without the heading itself,
+
+00:02:05.740 --> 00:02:06.240
+just the content? Is that clear enough?
+
+00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:09.740
+[Speaker 1]: Great question. Yeah, so I've tried 2 ways,
+
+00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:13.440
+sorry, 3 ways with this and landed on 1 that
+
+00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:16.480
+I like. Originally I used the OX package.
+
+00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:20.220
+There's an OX ignore thing in there where you
+
+00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:23.420
+can add an ignore tag to where you don't want
+
+00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:25.140
+the headings, but you do want the content
+
+00:02:26.920 --> 00:02:27.240
+exported. I found that a little bit annoying,
+
+00:02:27.940 --> 00:02:28.280
+just visually annoying,
+
+00:02:31.320 --> 00:02:31.820
+when I'm, again, My theme here is navigating
+
+00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:35.160
+100,000 word documents effectively and having
+
+00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:37.400
+that extra visual noise was kind of a pain.
+
+00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:40.760
+So I ended up, first I just did like a dumb
+
+00:02:43.040 --> 00:02:43.180
+ox script as part of my publication kind of
+
+00:02:47.720 --> 00:02:47.980
+pipeline that removed headlines at the scene
+
+00:02:48.940 --> 00:02:49.240
+level. And then actually,
+
+00:02:50.980 --> 00:02:51.220
+because I ended up leaning so heavily on
+
+00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:53.880
+Pandoc, and Pandoc, for those of you who have
+
+00:02:56.200 --> 00:02:56.700
+not looked at recent versions of Pandoc,
+
+00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:01.300
+they've got a really fantastic way to use Lua
+
+00:03:02.420 --> 00:03:02.920
+at this point to write filters.
+
+00:03:04.940 --> 00:03:05.140
+So you can kind of take the AST of your
+
+00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:07.400
+document and run these very simple Lua
+
+00:03:09.140 --> 00:03:09.620
+filters over it. They used to be in Haskell,
+
+00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:12.120
+which I'm not smart enough to write Haskell
+
+00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:13.500
+is 1 of the things that I've discovered.
+
+00:03:14.440 --> 00:03:14.760
+I keep bouncing off of it,
+
+00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:16.720
+but I'm just smart enough to write Lua.
+
+00:03:19.480 --> 00:03:19.840
+And so I use a Lua filter now,
+
+00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:21.380
+which I'm happy to publish to anyone who's
+
+00:03:22.880 --> 00:03:23.380
+interested. That basically lets me say,
+
+00:03:27.440 --> 00:03:27.560
+you know, what level headings to get rid of
+
+00:03:28.740 --> 00:03:29.120
+the heading, but publish the content.
+
+00:03:30.320 --> 00:03:30.480
+And part of the reason that's been useful is
+
+00:03:31.920 --> 00:03:32.040
+that some of the other novels I'm working on
+
+00:03:33.540 --> 00:03:33.680
+for example have different levels of
+
+00:03:35.640 --> 00:03:35.740
+hierarchy where maybe there's a part and then
+
+00:03:37.260 --> 00:03:37.640
+you know at the top level and then chapter
+
+00:03:39.160 --> 00:03:39.520
+and then scene and it's now the third level
+
+00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:41.580
+instead of the second and it's much easier in
+
+00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:44.060
+the Lua to just be like remove the third
+
+00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:45.700
+level headings or the second level headings
+
+00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:47.860
+or whatever it is so that's been that's been
+
+00:03:47.860 --> 00:03:48.360
+helpful.
+
+00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:53.540
+[Speaker 0]: Great, Moving on to the next question,
+
+00:03:58.120 --> 00:03:58.260
+slightly off topic, where can we see your
+
+00:03:58.260 --> 00:03:58.760
+novels?
+
+00:04:01.060 --> 00:04:01.560
+[Speaker 1]: Oh well yeah, you can,
+
+00:04:05.500 --> 00:04:05.560
+they're on Amazon, there's 2 of them and a
+
+00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:06.660
+book of short stories.
+
+00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:10.440
+I think the short stories and the second
+
+00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:12.280
+novel, which is called World Enough in Time,
+
+00:04:13.940 --> 00:04:14.160
+which is the 1 that kind of prompted this
+
+00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:16.660
+talk, are probably of more interest to this,
+
+00:04:18.320 --> 00:04:18.820
+to the Emacs focused group.
+
+00:04:20.380 --> 00:04:20.740
+The first one's like a philosophical murder
+
+00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:25.440
+mystery, but the World Enough in Time is a
+
+00:04:29.820 --> 00:04:30.320
+kind of Douglas Adams inspired sci-fi comedy
+
+00:04:34.440 --> 00:04:34.940
+about kind of hijinks on a relativistic speed
+
+00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:37.480
+space cruiser, which was a lot of fun to
+
+00:04:38.980 --> 00:04:39.480
+write. It has a lot of twisty subplots,
+
+00:04:42.500 --> 00:04:42.720
+which is where I developed that technique of
+
+00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:46.780
+being able to filter down to tags and see a
+
+00:04:47.840 --> 00:04:48.340
+reduced version of the novel,
+
+00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:51.960
+which was very handy when trying to juggle 13
+
+00:04:53.520 --> 00:04:54.020
+subplots. So yeah, check it out.
+
+00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:57.340
+[Speaker 0]: Great, we'll make sure that you have the
+
+00:04:59.860 --> 00:05:00.360
+links available on the talk page afterwards.
+
+00:05:03.420 --> 00:05:03.740
+Right now I sadly have to host so I cannot
+
+00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:05.820
+look up the links but we'll make sure or if
+
+00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:08.600
+[Speaker 1]: I put it in there for you.
+
+00:05:09.020 --> 00:05:09.520
+[Speaker 0]: anyone in the chat... Oh you did?
+
+00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:13.940
+Yeah. In the meantime we'll move on to the
+
+00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:17.060
+next question. Have you looked at the Denote
+
+00:05:19.700 --> 00:05:20.080
+signature features? The hierarchical nature
+
+00:05:23.180 --> 00:05:23.520
+of Lumen's ideas and index cards works well
+
+00:05:24.100 --> 00:05:24.600
+with Denote signatures.
+
+00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:26.620
+So are you familiar with Denote first?
+
+00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:28.840
+[Speaker 1]: I am not. No, it sounds like something that I
+
+00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:29.740
+should check out.
+
+00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:33.420
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, Denote is a way to work with slip
+
+00:05:35.460 --> 00:05:35.640
+boxes. We talked a little bit about it
+
+00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:37.740
+earlier today. We talked about Orgroam,
+
+00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:40.900
+we talked about Denote as well as a lighter
+
+00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:42.080
+alternative to Orgroam.
+
+00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:45.920
+And yeah, the organization with index cards
+
+00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:47.720
+feels like it's something that would highly
+
+00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:50.900
+benefit from linking and back links and any
+
+00:05:53.880 --> 00:05:54.380
+kind of UX functionality for relating pieces
+
+00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:56.980
+of information. So yeah,
+
+00:05:57.620 --> 00:05:58.120
+definitely look it up.
+
+00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:00.460
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I'm a heavy org-roam user.
+
+00:06:03.280 --> 00:06:03.680
+I use org-roam for a lot of different stuff
+
+00:06:05.740 --> 00:06:05.860
+and I would love, I will definitely check out
+
+00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:07.240
+Denote as an alternative.
+
+00:06:09.520 --> 00:06:09.960
+[Speaker 0]: Sure, I'm not particularly personally
+
+00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:12.180
+familiar with what Signature is within Denote
+
+00:06:13.940 --> 00:06:14.060
+and it'd be great if the person who asked the
+
+00:06:15.580 --> 00:06:15.980
+question could perhaps provide more details
+
+00:06:17.980 --> 00:06:18.180
+so that Edmund could get a little more
+
+00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:20.500
+information when he returns to the document.
+
+00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:21.980
+But yeah, if you're using Org-ROM,
+
+00:06:25.140 --> 00:06:25.280
+you're already within the mindset that you
+
+00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:27.500
+need, and perhaps you'd gain a little bit
+
+00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:29.760
+extra stuff from using Dino's signature,
+
+00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:33.240
+I assume. We have 8 minutes.
+
+00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:34.540
+We're still good on time.
+
+00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:36.980
+Next question, do you have a workflow
+
+00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:39.360
+combining handwritten index cards and org
+
+00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:39.860
+mode?
+
+00:06:42.400 --> 00:06:42.900
+[Speaker 1]: Great question. I do not.
+
+00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:47.120
+I do write by hand when I get,
+
+00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:49.280
+I don't know what a good term for it is,
+
+00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:51.580
+I'll call it like editorial paralysis or
+
+00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:53.320
+something when I find it very hard to move
+
+00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:54.880
+forward in something because I keep going
+
+00:06:56.940 --> 00:06:57.240
+back and tweaking. And I will handwrite stuff
+
+00:06:58.520 --> 00:06:58.660
+at that point and then type it in because
+
+00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:02.540
+it's so much harder to get stuck in editing
+
+00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:04.600
+mode when you have to move forward on the
+
+00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:07.860
+page. I don't use index cards.
+
+00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:12.080
+In the blog article that I link in my talk,
+
+00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:14.900
+the ewj.io slash emacs 1,
+
+00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:18.740
+I did try using handwritten or spreadsheet
+
+00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:22.720
+outlines at 1 point and found them very,
+
+00:07:27.640 --> 00:07:27.840
+very clumsy for novel writing just because I
+
+00:07:29.820 --> 00:07:30.320
+do so much, I mean, I do so much revision
+
+00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:32.720
+that moving things around meant that I had to
+
+00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:34.760
+keep 2 things in sync with each other,
+
+00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:35.660
+the pros and the outline.
+
+00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:38.040
+And that was what really led me to Org Mode
+
+00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:40.080
+as a way to keep the, again,
+
+00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:42.180
+I think part of the key for me is keeping the
+
+00:07:44.580 --> 00:07:45.060
+outline and the pros right next to each other
+
+00:07:46.440 --> 00:07:46.940
+in a way that they move around which is just
+
+00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:49.000
+really, I don't know, for me really really
+
+00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:49.500
+powerful.
+
+00:07:54.280 --> 00:07:54.480
+[Speaker 0]: Okay great, so we finished the list of
+
+00:07:55.840 --> 00:07:56.340
+questions available on the pad,
+
+00:07:58.260 --> 00:07:58.440
+but I see that some people have joined us on
+
+00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:01.300
+BBB, so hi everyone. If you have any
+
+00:08:03.340 --> 00:08:03.600
+questions feel free to unmute yourself and
+
+00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:06.820
+ask them. Otherwise, we might go on a break.
+
+00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:08.520
+So I'm going to give you about 10 seconds to
+
+00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:14.760
+unmute yourself. Or if you just want to add
+
+00:08:15.660 --> 00:08:15.860
+more questions on the pad,
+
+00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:17.920
+that's also fine. And that'll give you about
+
+00:08:19.540 --> 00:08:19.860
+30 seconds. Otherwise,
+
+00:08:20.660 --> 00:08:21.160
+we'll need to go on a break.
+
+00:08:24.020 --> 00:08:24.520
+And in the meantime, I'll thank you,
+
+00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:26.100
+Edmund, for your presentation,
+
+00:08:27.880 --> 00:08:28.100
+because it's always nice,
+
+00:08:31.400 --> 00:08:31.900
+you know, we The reason why we have 2 tracks,
+
+00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:34.280
+and we've been having 2 tracks for the last 2
+
+00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:36.260
+or 3 editions of EmacsConf is because it's
+
+00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:39.299
+really nice to have those talks which are
+
+00:08:43.500 --> 00:08:43.840
+still related to Emacs and to far distance
+
+00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:45.700
+developments because we are obviously using
+
+00:08:48.160 --> 00:08:48.400
+packages. But it's really nice to see when we
+
+00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:52.200
+foray into other areas like writing or any
+
+00:08:53.400 --> 00:08:53.900
+kind of academia-based topics.
+
+00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:55.840
+So thank you, it's really nice.
+
+00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:01.720
+It brings different colors to the spectrum of
+
+00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:03.900
+what EmacsConf is and what ultimately Emacs
+
+00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:05.180
+is as well. Thank you.
+
+00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:07.200
+[Speaker 1]: Well thanks to everyone who tuned in and Leo
+
+00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:08.560
+thanks to you and all the other organizers
+
+00:09:09.060 --> 00:09:09.340
+for putting this together.
+
+00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:10.220
+Appreciate it.
+
+00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:12.840
+[Speaker 0]: Thank you. All right I think we're going to
+
+00:09:14.380 --> 00:09:14.540
+go on a little break for 5 minutes because I
+
+00:09:16.060 --> 00:09:16.560
+don't see other questions being asked.
+
+00:09:18.900 --> 00:09:19.160
+So everyone we'll see you again in 5 minutes
+
+00:09:19.900 --> 00:09:20.400
+and thank you again, Edmund.
+
+00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:21.220
+[Speaker 1]: Cheers.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-one--oneel-the-static-site-generator-for-emacs-lisp-programmers--tony-aldon--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-one--oneel-the-static-site-generator-for-emacs-lisp-programmers--tony-aldon--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..71483a10
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-one--oneel-the-static-site-generator-for-emacs-lisp-programmers--tony-aldon--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1472 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:05.460
+[Speaker 0]: So, will you, when I'm looking at my,
+
+00:00:08.200 --> 00:00:08.480
+the other screen, I don't see the chat,
+
+00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:10.380
+so maybe someone can tell me.
+
+00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:12.360
+[Speaker 1]: It's fine, don't worry about it,
+
+00:00:13.820 --> 00:00:14.320
+and we are live. So hi again everyone.
+
+00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:16.140
+Hi Tony, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:18.420
+[Speaker 0]: Really well, and you?
+
+00:00:20.540 --> 00:00:21.040
+[Speaker 1]: I am doing fantastically,
+
+00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:23.460
+as fantastically as I can be doing,
+
+00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:25.820
+having to put out fire in the background
+
+00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:30.640
+[Speaker 0]: Cool!
+
+00:00:31.020 --> 00:00:31.520
+[Speaker 1]: during MaxConf. But I'm doing great! Alright,
+
+00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:34.900
+Let me just try to set up everything so that
+
+00:00:36.980 --> 00:00:37.260
+I can show the questions and all this.
+
+00:00:38.420 --> 00:00:38.600
+Do you mind if I read you the question?
+
+00:00:39.820 --> 00:00:39.960
+It might be a little more interactive and
+
+00:00:42.260 --> 00:00:42.760
+this way you can focus on either presenting
+
+00:00:43.260 --> 00:00:43.760
+stuff on your end.
+
+00:00:48.500 --> 00:00:48.680
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, tell me what are the questions and what
+
+00:00:50.440 --> 00:00:50.940
+to do and I will do that.
+
+00:00:55.900 --> 00:00:56.400
+[Speaker 1]: Okay great so what I'll do,
+
+00:00:58.340 --> 00:00:58.580
+I'll invite people to go to the pad and ask
+
+00:00:59.820 --> 00:01:00.060
+questions because it was a very interesting
+
+00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:01.480
+talk and I'm sure you have plenty of
+
+00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:03.460
+questions but I only see 1 right now.
+
+00:01:04.860 --> 00:01:05.360
+Do we have people on BigBlueButton?
+
+00:01:08.080 --> 00:01:08.580
+Yes we do have people joining right now.
+
+00:01:12.360 --> 00:01:12.620
+So reading the first question then.
+
+00:01:14.140 --> 00:01:14.380
+So what's the main motivation for this new
+
+00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:16.100
+package? I used to use org.yugo
+
+00:01:17.880 --> 00:01:18.340
+and use GitHub Actions to build a blog.
+
+00:01:20.440 --> 00:01:20.600
+So can you go in a little bit of details on
+
+00:01:20.600 --> 00:01:21.100
+this?
+
+00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:25.780
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, OK. So the main goal,
+
+00:01:33.070 --> 00:01:33.570
+I didn't want to have,
+
+00:01:36.940 --> 00:01:37.440
+to, I will push that here.
+
+00:01:44.440 --> 00:01:44.940
+So my goal was to not have to rely on another
+
+00:01:49.440 --> 00:01:49.920
+static site generator to produce my website.
+
+00:01:54.440 --> 00:01:54.780
+So if you use a Yugo, that means that you
+
+00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:01.060
+take, so this is the website that we've seen
+
+00:02:07.580 --> 00:02:07.880
+in the talk, this 1. And I didn't want to
+
+00:02:13.100 --> 00:02:13.320
+have to use a piece of software in Emacs that
+
+00:02:16.640 --> 00:02:16.960
+translate to some other files to be feed to
+
+00:02:20.320 --> 00:02:20.680
+another statistic generator because this way
+
+00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:23.680
+I have 2 things to understand.
+
+00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:26.620
+I have to understand how that software
+
+00:02:32.260 --> 00:02:32.440
+translates my files into the other files and
+
+00:02:36.460 --> 00:02:36.960
+then I have to understand how Hugo works.
+
+00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:39.480
+So if I want to change something I need to
+
+00:02:43.260 --> 00:02:43.660
+understand Hugo. So at some point I need to
+
+00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:46.200
+work with Hugo. So if I need to work with
+
+00:02:49.200 --> 00:02:49.700
+Hugo, maybe I can work with it directly.
+
+00:02:56.100 --> 00:02:56.600
+And I wanted also something that was purely
+
+00:03:02.580 --> 00:03:03.080
+Emacs-centric and working on it,
+
+00:03:05.060 --> 00:03:05.560
+I found out about that solution.
+
+00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:10.740
+And I wanted also something that we have only
+
+00:03:14.640 --> 00:03:15.140
+1 file that have all the entries.
+
+00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:18.620
+And when I thought about that,
+
+00:03:22.420 --> 00:03:22.720
+finally I found a way that maybe we can just
+
+00:03:30.160 --> 00:03:30.360
+use 1 or 3 to pass it the information of the
+
+00:03:33.329 --> 00:03:33.405
+website. And if you look,
+
+00:03:37.160 --> 00:03:37.660
+If you just try to work with Gatsby,
+
+00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:40.020
+Ugo or all those websites,
+
+00:03:45.180 --> 00:03:45.680
+when you start, you download 10,
+
+00:03:51.780 --> 00:03:52.280
+20, 30, thousand for hundreds of dependencies
+
+00:03:59.320 --> 00:03:59.620
+to do. Just to me, I'm a small guy and I just
+
+00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:02.720
+want to have some documentation on the
+
+00:04:04.700 --> 00:04:05.200
+website like this 1. It just,
+
+00:04:08.480 --> 00:04:08.980
+it shouldn't need that much of a dependency.
+
+00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:11.460
+And if you look at the website,
+
+00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:13.180
+if you want to hack on something,
+
+00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:17.320
+you need a lot of to understand how the
+
+00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:19.459
+config files work. So you need to,
+
+00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:21.060
+how does it work this config file?
+
+00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:23.320
+But I want, it's always happened that you
+
+00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:26.420
+want to add 1 thing or to add that things.
+
+00:04:27.260 --> 00:04:27.760
+What do you have to do?
+
+00:04:30.080 --> 00:04:30.340
+You have to, you can't because it's not
+
+00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:34.040
+offered by the configuration file.
+
+00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:37.980
+With that solution that I built for me first,
+
+00:04:41.080 --> 00:04:41.580
+I don't care if I need something else.
+
+00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:47.600
+I just have to go in that file.
+
+00:04:52.260 --> 00:04:52.440
+It doesn't need to be that file because as I
+
+00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:55.980
+am in Emacs if the render functions are
+
+00:04:58.820 --> 00:04:58.940
+already evaluated they exist and I can use it
+
+00:05:02.380 --> 00:05:02.520
+but I just have to change that file so if I
+
+00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:07.860
+want something more I just I go there let's
+
+00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:10.920
+say so does it answer the question or I
+
+00:05:12.280 --> 00:05:12.780
+continue to show something?
+
+00:05:15.880 --> 00:05:16.060
+[Speaker 1]: It's up to you, I think you are answering the
+
+00:05:17.440 --> 00:05:17.600
+question. I think you veered off a little bit
+
+00:05:19.640 --> 00:05:19.940
+from just why not you go but then you kind of
+
+00:05:21.340 --> 00:05:21.840
+redid part of your presentation to justify
+
+00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:26.360
+[Speaker 0]: own system. But stop me if I go because I
+
+00:05:29.700 --> 00:05:29.920
+used to want to show more things than what
+
+00:05:30.520 --> 00:05:30.900
+there is in the question.
+
+00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:32.080
+[Speaker 1]: why you had to roll your Yeah that's fine.
+
+00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:33.340
+Just for people who do not know,
+
+00:05:35.280 --> 00:05:35.500
+we tend to restrict speakers when they submit
+
+00:05:36.460 --> 00:05:36.620
+a presentation. We tell them,
+
+00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:39.000
+oh, you can do a flash talk in 10 minutes or
+
+00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:41.100
+a bit of a longer talk in 20 minutes or 40
+
+00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:43.180
+minutes. And usually, because we have a lot
+
+00:05:45.860 --> 00:05:46.260
+of speakers, we have to kind of coerce people
+
+00:05:47.860 --> 00:05:48.340
+into going to shorter formats and sometimes
+
+00:05:49.760 --> 00:05:50.260
+it's a lot about killing your darlings.
+
+00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:52.360
+But just to reassure you,
+
+00:05:54.380 --> 00:05:54.560
+we're just about to go on a launch break in
+
+00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:56.840
+about 10 minutes, so you've got the full 10
+
+00:05:57.940 --> 00:05:58.320
+minutes to use however you want,
+
+00:05:59.220 --> 00:05:59.340
+but I'll just tell you,
+
+00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:01.080
+you have a lot of questions so you might want
+
+00:06:03.280 --> 00:06:03.400
+to perhaps move on to the next 1 as soon as
+
+00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:04.060
+you can.
+
+00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:08.240
+[Speaker 0]: Yes okay so tell me the next 1 and if people
+
+00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:13.160
+want to stay more I can also stay more.
+
+00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:17.220
+Right. I understand if people need to go to
+
+00:06:18.900 --> 00:06:19.020
+lunch, they can, but people that want to
+
+00:06:19.740 --> 00:06:20.240
+stay, if it's possible,
+
+00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:22.860
+I'm here to answer any question.
+
+00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:26.240
+[Speaker 1]: Splendid. All right, so moving on to the next
+
+00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:29.180
+question. Is it possible to include the
+
+00:06:31.320 --> 00:06:31.560
+include org tag to add content from other
+
+00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:33.620
+files. Do you see what I'm talking about?
+
+00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:39.060
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, so it's not included.
+
+00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:45.240
+So the idea was really to have only 1 file
+
+00:06:49.400 --> 00:06:49.760
+and have no options. So if you look at the,
+
+00:06:51.940 --> 00:06:52.240
+let's go into, so the answer is no,
+
+00:06:55.840 --> 00:06:56.320
+but if you want, you can write the code that
+
+00:07:00.020 --> 00:07:00.520
+do it. But let's just go into one.n,
+
+00:07:07.660 --> 00:07:07.900
+so that files. So this is the files where you
+
+00:07:11.060 --> 00:07:11.440
+have everything, and there is only 2
+
+00:07:13.820 --> 00:07:13.980
+dependencies. Maybe we can see that at the
+
+00:07:17.900 --> 00:07:18.080
+top so which are htmlis on the Jack and the
+
+00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:19.840
+other are Augment. So for me,
+
+00:07:21.260 --> 00:07:21.760
+they're not dependencies because they come
+
+00:07:25.080 --> 00:07:25.440
+with Emacs. But the question is,
+
+00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:27.440
+can I add other things?
+
+00:07:31.200 --> 00:07:31.640
+If you look at that, you don't see the orange
+
+00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:33.220
+color which are viable,
+
+00:07:37.580 --> 00:07:38.080
+it's because I didn't want any configuration
+
+00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:41.060
+nor option. So there is no,
+
+00:07:45.340 --> 00:07:45.660
+if you think about, you are used to use org
+
+00:07:49.080 --> 00:07:49.540
+export normally and to use all the options
+
+00:07:51.760 --> 00:07:52.000
+that are possible on all the things they are
+
+00:08:00.100 --> 00:08:00.600
+not included. You can add them because when
+
+00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:06.500
+you are in a render function.
+
+00:08:08.620 --> 00:08:08.940
+So this is the render function that I showed
+
+00:08:11.820 --> 00:08:11.980
+in the theme. You have a page tree so you
+
+00:08:18.132 --> 00:08:18.358
+have the information but in the global I
+
+00:08:19.940 --> 00:08:20.440
+think, yes in global, you can pass anything
+
+00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:24.720
+you want and if you want you can pass the
+
+00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:27.540
+parse tree of the whole file.
+
+00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:30.840
+So if you pass the parse tree of the whole
+
+00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:34.580
+file, what you can do is that you can get it
+
+00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:38.659
+there. So I don't have it right now,
+
+00:08:43.820 --> 00:08:43.980
+but you might have your include stuff and you
+
+00:08:47.540 --> 00:08:48.040
+get it with a node property that target
+
+00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:50.940
+something in the global variable.
+
+00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:54.740
+So if we look just to be short but those 3
+
+00:08:56.980 --> 00:08:57.180
+parts, the first 1 is page tree.
+
+00:08:58.860 --> 00:08:59.160
+So it's this page that you are on the right,
+
+00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:02.220
+pages are a list of all the pages and global
+
+00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:06.240
+is something that you can set and reset once
+
+00:09:10.520 --> 00:09:10.840
+and you have the whole part street.
+
+00:09:12.900 --> 00:09:13.400
+So anything that you add in your op-files
+
+00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:16.840
+could go in global if you want,
+
+00:09:17.560 --> 00:09:18.060
+but it's not included.
+
+00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:23.140
+[Speaker 1]: All right. I think that's also answering the
+
+00:09:24.620 --> 00:09:24.840
+question. Can this generate a single file
+
+00:09:25.920 --> 00:09:26.420
+from different sources like blog.org,
+
+00:09:28.500 --> 00:09:28.820
+videos.org? I think you've just answered
+
+00:09:30.780 --> 00:09:31.280
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, I think yes.
+
+00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:32.660
+[Speaker 1]: this, right? Right. Okay.
+
+00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:34.340
+So moving on to the other question.
+
+00:09:36.860 --> 00:09:37.200
+Do you have pre-made templates already along
+
+00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:38.820
+with the 1.el package?
+
+00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:47.940
+[Speaker 0]: So, yes and no. So, The answer is if we go to
+
+00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:55.520
+1.n, so this file, so the first are blah,
+
+00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:01.780
+blah, blah. How it works,
+
+00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:06.480
+so, okay, so you have the 1-hocs,
+
+00:10:11.660 --> 00:10:11.980
+which is what can translate the org parse
+
+00:10:15.680 --> 00:10:16.180
+tree into HTML. So this is for the content of
+
+00:10:17.640 --> 00:10:18.140
+each page. So this is very useful.
+
+00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:22.660
+Then we have a bunch of functions that help
+
+00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:24.360
+to render the function,
+
+00:10:29.760 --> 00:10:30.260
+each page. And you have a bunch of...
+
+00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:33.920
+Everything that starts with dash default is a
+
+00:10:35.640 --> 00:10:36.140
+render function. So there's no template,
+
+00:10:40.020 --> 00:10:40.520
+but each page that if you want,
+
+00:10:45.920 --> 00:10:46.400
+so that 1, the home, you can use 1 default
+
+00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:48.620
+home. So, if you want to list the page,
+
+00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:53.220
+you have that 1. For a page with no table of
+
+00:10:55.460 --> 00:10:55.840
+content, you use that thing.
+
+00:10:57.860 --> 00:10:58.260
+And if you go back to be short,
+
+00:11:02.160 --> 00:11:02.660
+if we go there, I put this like that.
+
+00:11:09.380 --> 00:11:09.880
+So this that we see here is the first inline
+
+00:11:14.220 --> 00:11:14.440
+of 1.org. By the way, it doesn't have to be
+
+00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:17.120
+called 1.org. It's just as you want,
+
+00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:19.380
+but maybe we can call it.
+
+00:11:22.500 --> 00:11:23.000
+So default, what was the other 1?
+
+00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:28.280
+Default with sidebar. Or is it default with
+
+00:11:29.640 --> 00:11:30.080
+sidebar or default? Yes,
+
+00:11:34.880 --> 00:11:35.380
+with sidebar. Sidebar,
+
+00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:37.740
+if it's worked correctly.
+
+00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:46.620
+Okay, so, okay, so I don't know why the CSS
+
+00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:49.700
+is not working correctly.
+
+00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:53.860
+[Speaker 1]: It's okay. It wouldn't be a live demo without
+
+00:11:55.020 --> 00:11:55.440
+problems occurring at some point.
+
+00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:55.940
+Okay.
+
+00:12:00.740 --> 00:12:01.240
+[Speaker 0]: But so maybe we can use this 1.
+
+00:12:06.660 --> 00:12:06.980
+Or we stuck. So we are going to use this 1,
+
+00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:16.020
+we've talked this 1, but maybe better in this
+
+00:12:19.740 --> 00:12:20.240
+1 that add something. So we build it again
+
+00:12:32.020 --> 00:12:32.180
+and now, oh, come on. We have it and we have
+
+00:12:35.640 --> 00:12:36.140
+the, sorry, if we have just default,
+
+00:12:40.680 --> 00:12:41.120
+we rebuild and now this is the default layer
+
+00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:44.360
+that if we do with table of content,
+
+00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:48.580
+you have it, you have the default content.
+
+00:12:53.140 --> 00:12:53.640
+So how to change, and they are not template.
+
+00:12:57.260 --> 00:12:57.760
+They are render functions that takes your
+
+00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:05.720
+page as a tree and render HTML string.
+
+00:13:08.700 --> 00:13:09.200
+So you can build any function that you want.
+
+00:13:11.980 --> 00:13:12.280
+So yes, I think that answers the question.
+
+00:13:15.900 --> 00:13:16.400
+There is no template like in other systems.
+
+00:13:18.420 --> 00:13:18.920
+[Speaker 1]: Cool, that makes sense.
+
+00:13:20.800 --> 00:13:21.000
+We have 2 more questions and then we'll need
+
+00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:22.200
+to go on a lunch break.
+
+00:13:23.420 --> 00:13:23.740
+I don't see anyone join the room.
+
+00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:25.640
+Remember, Tony has said that he would be
+
+00:13:27.340 --> 00:13:27.500
+willing to answer more questions during the
+
+00:13:28.860 --> 00:13:29.120
+lunch break, perhaps because it's not lunch
+
+00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:30.980
+break for you. Are you in Europe right now?
+
+00:13:34.280 --> 00:13:34.600
+So that's why for us, also for me it's very
+
+00:13:37.540 --> 00:13:37.660
+dark, but it's not lunch break for us,
+
+00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:39.440
+it's going to be dinner break soon actually.
+
+00:13:42.340 --> 00:13:42.840
+[Speaker 0]: Yes. Yes, exactly, so I'm just,
+
+00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:44.700
+I'm okay.
+
+00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:49.200
+[Speaker 1]: Right, Okay, so moving on to 1 of the last 2
+
+00:13:51.400 --> 00:13:51.680
+questions. What additional features are there
+
+00:13:53.160 --> 00:13:53.660
+that you would like to add to 1.EL
+
+00:13:54.280 --> 00:13:54.780
+in the future?
+
+00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:00.440
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, there's only 1, which is a full text
+
+00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:05.500
+search done in a simple way.
+
+00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:10.020
+So I don't meet what simple way means,
+
+00:14:11.880 --> 00:14:12.380
+but when I see something complicated,
+
+00:14:14.640 --> 00:14:15.140
+it doesn't enter in 1 to me.
+
+00:14:18.340 --> 00:14:18.840
+So, but really, if you see that,
+
+00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:22.260
+I would like to have some way.
+
+00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:25.080
+So, this is the documentation and I would
+
+00:14:26.980 --> 00:14:27.480
+like to have some way to just have another
+
+00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:30.740
+function because we are not talking about
+
+00:14:33.300 --> 00:14:33.800
+those websites on the 1.L.
+
+00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:39.520
+It's not made for a big company or of your
+
+00:14:42.100 --> 00:14:42.440
+things, it's just for a random guy that have
+
+00:14:45.880 --> 00:14:46.200
+a blog or a few blogs and If you are a great
+
+00:14:51.780 --> 00:14:52.280
+blogger, maybe you are going to write 100 or
+
+00:14:56.940 --> 00:14:57.240
+200 or 300 pages in many years.
+
+00:14:59.640 --> 00:15:00.060
+So this enter in that category.
+
+00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:03.580
+So it's small. So I think it can,
+
+00:15:07.280 --> 00:15:07.580
+we could find a way to make a full text
+
+00:15:09.660 --> 00:15:10.160
+search. And that is simple.
+
+00:15:12.280 --> 00:15:12.780
+I don't need to, to go with,
+
+00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:16.620
+with solution like Algolia that is,
+
+00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:17.900
+that works super fine.
+
+00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:21.100
+But this is something that I don't control
+
+00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:26.200
+and I have to give them the data and I'm not
+
+00:15:29.060 --> 00:15:29.320
+against that but it's just that I think with
+
+00:15:32.540 --> 00:15:32.800
+a bit of work something can be done with full
+
+00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:35.600
+textile. But this is the only thing that I
+
+00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:36.980
+would like to add.
+
+00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:41.300
+[Speaker 1]: Very clear answer. Next question.
+
+00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:44.380
+Can you create navbars on a website and fancy
+
+00:15:45.880 --> 00:15:46.380
+things like carousels using 1.EL?
+
+00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:48.220
+Now carousels is just,
+
+00:15:51.560 --> 00:15:51.820
+I think, a fancy way to display pictures and
+
+00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:53.800
+please correct me whoever asked this
+
+00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:55.440
+question. Otherwise I see you taking notes
+
+00:15:56.540 --> 00:15:56.820
+for the answers, thank you very much.
+
+00:15:58.580 --> 00:15:58.740
+But if you could specify maybe carousels so
+
+00:16:01.400 --> 00:16:01.900
+that Tony and I may get a better idea.
+
+00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:03.340
+But still, first part of the question,
+
+00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:04.940
+can you create navbars on a website?
+
+00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:10.860
+[Speaker 0]: Yes. So if, for instance,
+
+00:16:14.140 --> 00:16:14.600
+you see there, to me, it's not a,
+
+00:16:18.540 --> 00:16:19.040
+it's a navbar. So you already have it.
+
+00:16:22.660 --> 00:16:23.080
+I didn't show that in the talk,
+
+00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:27.440
+but the CSS for the default function that
+
+00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:31.100
+works is responsive. So,
+
+00:16:33.900 --> 00:16:34.400
+out of the box, if you are using something,
+
+00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:37.540
+you will have an app bar done for you with
+
+00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:38.680
+all the pages that you have.
+
+00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:40.240
+So, if we go to install,
+
+00:16:44.620 --> 00:16:44.900
+we have that. And if we no longer have that,
+
+00:16:49.460 --> 00:16:49.960
+we have that sidebar there.
+
+00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:51.840
+And how it's done. So,
+
+00:16:56.140 --> 00:16:56.380
+the same way. I like simple fields that are
+
+00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:58.580
+flexible and I didn't want configuration
+
+00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:01.280
+because if you want to write the code to
+
+00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:03.480
+change something you just have to write code.
+
+00:17:05.220 --> 00:17:05.720
+So any function, render function,
+
+00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:08.760
+is yours. So you can do whatever you want and
+
+00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:11.520
+you enter the html that you want to render.
+
+00:17:17.300 --> 00:17:17.800
+So let's see how do we get that navigation
+
+00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:20.920
+bar that we have when we do that this is a
+
+00:17:22.579 --> 00:17:23.079
+CSS stuff. But when we click,
+
+00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:25.819
+this is a JS stuff that,
+
+00:17:32.120 --> 00:17:32.320
+so let's go to one.l And maybe this is a
+
+00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:35.660
+sidebar. Why that function because,
+
+00:17:39.860 --> 00:17:40.360
+okay. So when that function,
+
+00:17:45.020 --> 00:17:45.340
+so 1 default sidebar is 1 that is used to do
+
+00:17:46.800 --> 00:17:47.120
+some of the things at some point,
+
+00:17:51.820 --> 00:17:52.120
+what we return is a JackHTML that take a data
+
+00:17:54.020 --> 00:17:54.340
+structure and return a string.
+
+00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:57.280
+So this is your HTML. So you can see at the
+
+00:18:00.280 --> 00:18:00.780
+top you have the end, then you have the body,
+
+00:18:05.740 --> 00:18:06.080
+and if we go at the end we can add a script
+
+00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:08.640
+thing. So what we've seen with the sidebar
+
+00:18:11.320 --> 00:18:11.820
+it's just that much line of JavaScript.
+
+00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:17.440
+So this is the only JavaScript that there is
+
+00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:23.640
+to get what we have here when we do that.
+
+00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:29.500
+So you can add whatever you want.
+
+00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:33.420
+It's code and you're the master of that code.
+
+00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:38.600
+[Speaker 1]: Splendid, great. So to specify the carousel
+
+00:18:39.520 --> 00:18:39.860
+stuff that we mentioned before,
+
+00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:42.520
+it's pictures rolling or sliding from 1 to
+
+00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:44.620
+the other. It's kind of like having a
+
+00:18:47.180 --> 00:18:47.540
+gallery, imagine a fancy dynamic gallery
+
+00:18:48.340 --> 00:18:48.740
+where you can scroll pictures.
+
+00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:50.220
+Do you see what I'm talking about?
+
+00:18:53.100 --> 00:18:53.600
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, so that things would just be I think
+
+00:18:57.380 --> 00:18:57.620
+some javascript added somewhere and I can
+
+00:18:58.780 --> 00:18:59.280
+show you another website.
+
+00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:04.200
+So for instance if we go because there are
+
+00:19:07.900 --> 00:19:08.160
+not all the data of the website are not all
+
+00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:10.140
+public, but the website they are.
+
+00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:12.020
+So for instance, a mini-buffer,
+
+00:19:18.380 --> 00:19:18.880
+it's not a carousel, but at the home page,
+
+00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:20.900
+we can do whatever we want.
+
+00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:24.560
+Still those pages, still,
+
+00:19:28.620 --> 00:19:28.980
+this is only 1 file for each page.
+
+00:19:31.080 --> 00:19:31.580
+So if we click, we can get those things.
+
+00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:33.140
+It's just that when we,
+
+00:19:34.540 --> 00:19:35.040
+for the home page for instance,
+
+00:19:37.540 --> 00:19:38.040
+when we go back on that home page,
+
+00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:40.580
+we have the list at that point.
+
+00:19:44.860 --> 00:19:45.360
+So let's go back to that function that we're,
+
+00:19:47.320 --> 00:19:47.740
+so not that 1, maybe the 1,
+
+00:19:50.540 --> 00:19:50.760
+1 different, it's better because that 1 is
+
+00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:52.980
+simpler. So almost nothing happened.
+
+00:19:55.020 --> 00:19:55.520
+We have the list of the pages.
+
+00:19:59.180 --> 00:19:59.680
+So I can do whatever I want with that list.
+
+00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:05.400
+I can loop over and we can see that 1,
+
+00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:08.600
+that default home list of pages,
+
+00:20:09.560 --> 00:20:10.060
+so that list of the pages,
+
+00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:12.160
+and we see where is the list.
+
+00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:16.160
+Okay, so this is a, here we have a function
+
+00:20:20.600 --> 00:20:21.100
+that just, we want the pages,
+
+00:20:23.600 --> 00:20:24.100
+but I think we, but the home page,
+
+00:20:27.620 --> 00:20:28.120
+and we have that list,
+
+00:20:32.520 --> 00:20:33.020
+and then here we do that.
+
+00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:40.460
+And we get something listed,
+
+00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:44.060
+But then as you control everything that you
+
+00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:51.820
+do, you can pass any CSS class that you want
+
+00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:53.620
+to do those things. So,
+
+00:20:54.520 --> 00:20:55.020
+for instance, that div,
+
+00:21:00.340 --> 00:21:00.660
+add the class either. Yes,
+
+00:21:02.560 --> 00:21:02.840
+you can do. I don't remember the question,
+
+00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:05.660
+but I think I was answering the right 1.
+
+00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:07.260
+[Speaker 1]: No, no, you were answering it.
+
+00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:09.720
+It was about carousels and about having fancy
+
+00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:11.720
+display for image galleries.
+
+00:21:12.340 --> 00:21:12.660
+And I think you've answered.
+
+00:21:13.620 --> 00:21:14.120
+Basically, you just put your JavaScript,
+
+00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:16.100
+you embed it inside the code.
+
+00:21:16.620 --> 00:21:17.120
+[Speaker 0]: Exactly.
+
+00:21:20.080 --> 00:21:20.220
+[Speaker 1]: So, other question. Would there be an
+
+00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:22.860
+automated way to convert an existing HTML
+
+00:21:24.380 --> 00:21:24.880
+document into a JackHTML form?
+
+00:21:31.560 --> 00:21:32.060
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, so that 1, I don't have 1.
+
+00:21:35.080 --> 00:21:35.580
+It's another topic, but maybe there are some
+
+00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:37.940
+kind of session because some people that
+
+00:21:41.120 --> 00:21:41.620
+know, that are used to Lisp,
+
+00:21:45.080 --> 00:21:45.580
+common Lisp or Clojure or other,
+
+00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:49.460
+Jack-html, that function,
+
+00:21:53.260 --> 00:21:53.680
+is something classic, but I didn't find,
+
+00:22:00.340 --> 00:22:00.840
+So I wrote it because I didn't find it
+
+00:22:04.020 --> 00:22:04.520
+already done the way I want for Emacs.
+
+00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:08.980
+And this is something for E-cup closure.
+
+00:22:13.040 --> 00:22:13.260
+So really I take, it's not that I take my
+
+00:22:14.660 --> 00:22:15.060
+impression, just that when you have something
+
+00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:20.140
+that exists and you look at how it's done.
+
+00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:22.720
+So you have a eCup for Crusher,
+
+00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:26.640
+does the same thing that HTML.
+
+00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:32.140
+It's more that I do a Jack HTML do what eCup
+
+00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:37.160
+does, but maybe they do it a better way.
+
+00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:41.600
+So I think maybe in that community,
+
+00:22:45.940 --> 00:22:46.320
+it might already exist something that go from
+
+00:22:51.940 --> 00:22:52.440
+HTML to Jack. So you can see,
+
+00:22:56.120 --> 00:22:56.620
+is it big enough? I will make it big enough.
+
+00:22:58.773 --> 00:22:59.060
+[Speaker 1]: It's good enough, don't worry.
+
+00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:01.420
+[Speaker 0]: So if you see- So you have the hash HTML and
+
+00:23:04.020 --> 00:23:04.200
+you see those things. There are things that I
+
+00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:05.460
+couldn't do, for instance,
+
+00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:09.280
+for the ID, I couldn't use the hash in the
+
+00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:14.760
+name of, of how do we name that,
+
+00:23:18.260 --> 00:23:18.480
+of the keywords, because it's used for
+
+00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:21.180
+something else in a Emacs Lisp.
+
+00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:25.020
+So, I use... Anyway, so you see that you have
+
+00:23:30.060 --> 00:23:30.260
+that things but in Emacs we don't have the
+
+00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:34.960
+map with that syntax. We have a hash map but
+
+00:23:36.760 --> 00:23:37.120
+they are not with that syntax and I wanted
+
+00:23:45.860 --> 00:23:46.080
+that syntax so we use only list and Here we
+
+00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:48.660
+have an array with a hash map.
+
+00:23:51.620 --> 00:23:52.120
+So let me just say, so the question was,
+
+00:23:53.600 --> 00:23:54.100
+does it exist something?
+
+00:23:58.320 --> 00:23:58.680
+I think not, but it could be built or maybe
+
+00:24:01.100 --> 00:24:01.600
+exist for E-Cups, you are interested.
+
+00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:04.860
+[Speaker 1]: Okay, great. I think that answers the
+
+00:24:07.340 --> 00:24:07.840
+question perfectly. And our final question,
+
+00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:12.160
+does this or you use any other Emacs packages
+
+00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:14.180
+for your packages slash website,
+
+00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:16.740
+example, or publish? Like,
+
+00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:17.960
+rephrasing the question,
+
+00:24:20.380 --> 00:24:20.820
+do you use it for your own personal usage or
+
+00:24:21.820 --> 00:24:22.320
+do you interact with other packages?
+
+00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:26.180
+[Speaker 0]: I'm not sure I understand the question.
+
+00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:28.960
+Can you please repeat the question?
+
+00:24:32.300 --> 00:24:32.460
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, I will reread it as it is written and I
+
+00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:34.760
+will leave you interpret it however you want.
+
+00:24:38.860 --> 00:24:39.220
+Thank you. Does this or you use any other
+
+00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:43.060
+Emacs packages for your package slash website
+
+00:24:44.600 --> 00:24:45.100
+like org-publish?
+
+00:24:48.840 --> 00:24:49.340
+[Speaker 0]: No, no, no. I don't use nothing.
+
+00:24:54.140 --> 00:24:54.640
+I just accept dependency of 1.n.
+
+00:25:00.760 --> 00:25:01.000
+So, we are in 1.n and we go at the top and we
+
+00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:03.980
+see that those are the dependencies.
+
+00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:09.520
+I use nothing. So what I do is that I
+
+00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:12.420
+publish, I just generate the public
+
+00:25:14.540 --> 00:25:15.040
+directory. So if we go to public,
+
+00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:18.240
+this 1, no, I don't want this 1.
+
+00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:23.240
+I want to go to the website of the video.
+
+00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:27.400
+If we see here, everything is rendered in the
+
+00:25:35.860 --> 00:25:36.360
+public. Any services, if you use your own
+
+00:25:38.940 --> 00:25:39.280
+server and you save those files,
+
+00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.460
+you have your website.
+
+00:25:42.280 --> 00:25:42.580
+So I don't use anything else.
+
+00:25:49.540 --> 00:25:49.700
+I just git push and I'm using Netlify as a
+
+00:25:51.820 --> 00:25:52.320
+service to run to save my files,
+
+00:25:54.360 --> 00:25:54.860
+but you can use anything you want.
+
+00:25:58.480 --> 00:25:58.620
+Because your website is really what is into a
+
+00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:00.460
+public. So, this is another,
+
+00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:03.340
+It's not the concern of 1.L
+
+00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:07.180
+to answer. I'm not using org.publish.
+
+00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:10.900
+[Speaker 1]: Cool, great. Well, thank you.
+
+00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:13.000
+I think the question was also about other
+
+00:26:16.280 --> 00:26:16.500
+things, but I think If the person wants a
+
+00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:18.340
+more clear answer to their question,
+
+00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:21.260
+feel free to clarify the question and Tony
+
+00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:22.960
+might be able to answer it later on.
+
+00:26:24.100 --> 00:26:24.220
+Alright Tony, I think that's all the
+
+00:26:25.520 --> 00:26:25.760
+questions we had. Thank you so much for
+
+00:26:27.260 --> 00:26:27.680
+taking the time not only to present Adimax
+
+00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:29.240
+Kant, but also for answering all the
+
+00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:30.460
+questions people had.
+
+00:26:33.580 --> 00:26:34.080
+[Speaker 0]: Thank you to everybody participating,
+
+00:26:37.580 --> 00:26:38.000
+organizing and thank you for all those
+
+00:26:42.020 --> 00:26:42.180
+questions and you can send me any emails if
+
+00:26:44.620 --> 00:26:45.120
+you have a question and open the issues if
+
+00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:47.720
+it's not working the way it should work for
+
+00:26:49.540 --> 00:26:49.840
+you. Please send me those things.
+
+00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:50.900
+Thank you, everybody.
+
+00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:54.260
+[Speaker 1]: Splendid, thank you. And before,
+
+00:26:55.840 --> 00:26:56.140
+so right now we're gonna go on a lunch break.
+
+00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:58.660
+We'll be back in about 40 minutes for the
+
+00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:01.240
+talk called Emacs Turbocharges My Writing.
+
+00:27:02.300 --> 00:27:02.540
+And I will not tell you more.
+
+00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:04.280
+You can look at the talk page to see a little
+
+00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:06.340
+bit of a synopsis but otherwise keep the
+
+00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:08.900
+surprise. So have a good lunch or have a good
+
+00:27:11.260 --> 00:27:11.760
+dinner if you are in dinner-friendly times
+
+00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:13.180
+and I will see you afterwards.
+
+00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:14.180
+Thank you again, Tony.
+
+00:27:15.100 --> 00:27:15.600
+[Speaker 0]: See you.
+
+00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:20.320
+[Speaker 1]: All right. Let me just close everything.
+
+00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:30.480
+All right, got it. OK,
+
+00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:31.400
+so thank you so much, Tony.
+
+00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:33.520
+I just had to clear everything up on the
+
+00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:35.240
+stream. I'm going to need to...
+
+00:27:38.500 --> 00:27:39.000
+Sorry. I'm going to stop.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-overlay--improving-compiler-diagnostics-with-overlays--jeff-trull--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-overlay--improving-compiler-diagnostics-with-overlays--jeff-trull--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2f2e9a1a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-overlay--improving-compiler-diagnostics-with-overlays--jeff-trull--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,638 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:02.899 --> 00:00:03.399
+[Speaker 0]: Out here or also you can continue discussing
+
+00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:06.700
+on IRC.
+
+00:00:23.200 --> 00:00:23.320
+So I see 2 questions coming in already on the
+
+00:00:24.400 --> 00:00:24.619
+pad. So the first question is,
+
+00:00:26.759 --> 00:00:27.040
+how did you draw the under braces and over
+
+00:00:38.360 --> 00:00:38.559
+braces? Sorry, Jeff, you're muted on the blue
+
+00:00:38.559 --> 00:00:39.059
+button.
+
+00:00:43.340 --> 00:00:43.680
+[Speaker 1]: I'm sorry for some reason I'm seeing
+
+00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:46.420
+everything twice. I'm hearing everything
+
+00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:48.600
+twice. So it's, it's about with about a 5
+
+00:00:53.400 --> 00:00:53.900
+[Speaker 0]: Probably my stream turned on
+
+00:00:57.340 --> 00:00:57.620
+[Speaker 1]: second delay. It's straight Oh,
+
+00:01:03.820 --> 00:01:04.000
+you're right Thank you so much I MPB is
+
+00:01:07.340 --> 00:01:07.840
+showing the the big blue button Okay,
+
+00:01:09.060 --> 00:01:09.380
+sorry everyone. Okay now.
+
+00:01:12.180 --> 00:01:12.260
+I'm together now Let's see How did I draw the
+
+00:01:13.140 --> 00:01:13.640
+over braces and under braces?
+
+00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:17.620
+LaTeX. That is a, that's a,
+
+00:01:25.020 --> 00:01:25.380
+yeah, and a SVG, I think,
+
+00:01:29.160 --> 00:01:29.460
+produced by LaTeX through a separate file.
+
+00:01:31.960 --> 00:01:32.460
+I tried to do like a LaTeX code block and
+
+00:01:33.940 --> 00:01:34.160
+didn't get around to it.
+
+00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:37.260
+Also, the code to produce it in TickSet was
+
+00:01:39.800 --> 00:01:39.940
+really, really long. So I didn't put it in
+
+00:01:47.300 --> 00:01:47.540
+[Speaker 0]: The next question is, you've got a nice
+
+00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:49.340
+sounding keyboard. What kind is it?
+
+00:01:50.380 --> 00:01:50.600
+[Speaker 1]: the notes. GARY ILLYES-CHAKRABARTYTT I'm so
+
+00:01:55.960 --> 00:01:56.180
+sorry. It is an Ergodox split keyboard for my
+
+00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:00.180
+wrists. Sorry about the noise.
+
+00:02:01.020 --> 00:02:01.280
+[Speaker 0]: Awesome. Yeah, no worries.
+
+00:02:02.220 --> 00:02:02.440
+I mean, I like to hear it.
+
+00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:04.400
+We like to hear it. I think a lot of us do.
+
+00:02:07.080 --> 00:02:07.580
+[Speaker 1]: Do we have anything on IRC?
+
+00:02:15.880 --> 00:02:16.380
+Let's see. Someone's asking for ligatures.
+
+00:02:23.420 --> 00:02:23.860
+Do you have any questions,
+
+00:02:26.100 --> 00:02:26.600
+Ben? Charles?
+
+00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:35.440
+[Speaker 0]: I see a bunch on the path that I can read for
+
+00:02:36.980 --> 00:02:37.480
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, please do.
+
+00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:40.140
+[Speaker 0]: now. Sure. So next question is,
+
+00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:42.080
+do you find that the invasive,
+
+00:02:44.540 --> 00:02:44.680
+quote unquote, 3-formatting interferes with
+
+00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:45.180
+navigation?
+
+00:02:48.700 --> 00:02:49.200
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, it does. That is true.
+
+00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:01.800
+Let me see. Yeah, it's weird.
+
+00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:04.340
+The good news is that,
+
+00:03:06.260 --> 00:03:06.500
+oh, you know what? The first thing I did,
+
+00:03:07.600 --> 00:03:08.100
+my first attempt at this,
+
+00:03:11.140 --> 00:03:11.480
+I actually made all of the incoming text
+
+00:03:13.440 --> 00:03:13.660
+invisible and just replaced it with my own
+
+00:03:15.440 --> 00:03:15.940
+text. And that was actually a lot worse.
+
+00:03:21.420 --> 00:03:21.680
+The more of the input that is removed or made
+
+00:03:23.600 --> 00:03:23.960
+invisible, the harder the navigation becomes.
+
+00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:26.880
+So the fact that now I'm just inserting line
+
+00:03:29.440 --> 00:03:29.640
+breaks and spaces makes it a lot easier.
+
+00:03:30.540 --> 00:03:30.920
+And I can still search.
+
+00:03:34.600 --> 00:03:34.760
+And when I get to the destination of the
+
+00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:38.800
+search, I'm still in proper normal text.
+
+00:03:41.980 --> 00:03:42.160
+So it got a little better by changing my
+
+00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:43.940
+strategy a bit, but it's still a little bit
+
+00:03:50.180 --> 00:03:50.680
+of a problem. Let's see.
+
+00:03:51.720 --> 00:03:52.220
+I'll go look at the etherpad.
+
+00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:55.520
+Where is it?
+
+00:03:57.260 --> 00:03:57.440
+[Speaker 0]: I can read the questions from etherpad if
+
+00:04:00.660 --> 00:04:00.860
+you'd like me to. And then If at any point
+
+00:04:02.720 --> 00:04:03.180
+you want to take the questions from IRC,
+
+00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:04.820
+then feel free to do that as well.
+
+00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:07.600
+[Speaker 1]: I found it. Can you show us the key bindings
+
+00:04:08.940 --> 00:04:09.440
+of your minor map for editing overlays?
+
+00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:16.360
+Well, I have a minor mode key map for
+
+00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:22.220
+increasing or decreasing the level of detail.
+
+00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:25.140
+And the key bindings are like,
+
+00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:32.340
+I can't remember what it is.
+
+00:04:34.080 --> 00:04:34.200
+If you go and you look at the source on
+
+00:04:35.640 --> 00:04:36.140
+GitHub, you can see it there.
+
+00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:38.100
+I forgot what I bound them to.
+
+00:04:40.320 --> 00:04:40.820
+Something that I'm allowed to do.
+
+00:04:45.860 --> 00:04:46.220
+They have restrictions on what key bindings
+
+00:04:47.200 --> 00:04:47.700
+you can make in minor modes.
+
+00:04:49.300 --> 00:04:49.640
+And I carefully followed the directions.
+
+00:04:50.580 --> 00:04:50.820
+I don't remember what it was.
+
+00:04:54.220 --> 00:04:54.720
+It's like Control-C-P or something like that.
+
+00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:01.100
+Or yeah. Sorry. Your examples were with C++
+
+00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:03.140
+if you experiment with any other languages.
+
+00:05:07.460 --> 00:05:07.960
+I haven't. I guess this is just a perennial
+
+00:05:10.440 --> 00:05:10.940
+pain point for C++ programmers.
+
+00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:13.860
+So that's kind of why my,
+
+00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:16.000
+and I am 1, and I guess that's why my focus
+
+00:05:17.880 --> 00:05:18.080
+was there. You probably have to rewrite some
+
+00:05:20.520 --> 00:05:21.020
+of the parsers to use something else.
+
+00:05:24.060 --> 00:05:24.160
+Would it be possible to include overlays in
+
+00:05:25.080 --> 00:05:25.580
+the source file itself?
+
+00:05:30.860 --> 00:05:31.360
+I actually don't understand this question.
+
+00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:33.440
+In the source file itself,
+
+00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:35.660
+there are language modes that do this.
+
+00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:41.740
+No, I'm not certain I understand that
+
+00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:43.700
+question. Maybe you could edit it a little
+
+00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:45.860
+bit more, overlays in the source file.
+
+00:05:48.840 --> 00:05:49.340
+What are your plans for TSP in the future?
+
+00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:55.060
+It's a little fragile.
+
+00:06:00.020 --> 00:06:00.520
+So it might be nice to investigate.
+
+00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:02.920
+I think you can get the compiler to output
+
+00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:04.620
+error messages in different formats,
+
+00:06:07.320 --> 00:06:07.800
+which might be more parsable or the parsing
+
+00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:08.860
+might be more maintainable.
+
+00:06:10.280 --> 00:06:10.520
+That might be an interesting thing to
+
+00:06:15.460 --> 00:06:15.960
+investigate. And the other thing is I have
+
+00:06:19.200 --> 00:06:19.700
+just 1 way of reformatting the output where
+
+00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:21.820
+everything on the same level is vertically
+
+00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:24.160
+aligned. But I think some people might want
+
+00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:27.040
+to make more use of the horizontal space on
+
+00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:31.260
+the screen and take the sort of sibling parts
+
+00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:35.360
+of the type and line them up straight across
+
+00:06:39.140 --> 00:06:39.640
+and take up a little bit less vertical space.
+
+00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:48.040
+Enriched mode. I don't know what enriched
+
+00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:51.500
+mode is. Interesting. Oh,
+
+00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:53.220
+what's my repository link?
+
+00:06:56.400 --> 00:06:56.900
+Let me get that then. I don't know how to
+
+00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:01.120
+format this properly, but it's just troll
+
+00:07:03.820 --> 00:07:04.320
+slash tspute. Yeah, it's on GitHub.
+
+00:07:14.820 --> 00:07:15.160
+Something like that. Let's see.
+
+00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:16.620
+This looks like the Etherpad.
+
+00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:20.140
+It looks like all the Etherpad questions.
+
+00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:22.620
+We have 1 here from Charles.
+
+00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:25.120
+Can overlays work as hypertext so you can
+
+00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:27.180
+link an error message back to the source?
+
+00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:30.920
+Yeah, actually, that's done by default in
+
+00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:33.120
+compilation mode. That's 1 of the features
+
+00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:36.660
+you get, which has been around for literally
+
+00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:41.520
+decades. Oh, yeah. Is it already there?
+
+00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:42.740
+Yes, it's already there.
+
+00:07:45.960 --> 00:07:46.460
+Let's see. Do we have anything on IRC?
+
+00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:56.880
+Let me see. OK, looks like it seems like
+
+00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:58.480
+we've run out of questions.
+
+00:07:58.860 --> 00:07:59.360
+Is that true?
+
+00:08:04.440 --> 00:08:04.640
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, it seems so. It seems so,
+
+00:08:06.820 --> 00:08:07.200
+although we still have a couple more minutes,
+
+00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:09.480
+like maybe 3, 4 minutes on the stream.
+
+00:08:13.780 --> 00:08:14.240
+So yeah. And then, of course,
+
+00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:16.020
+once the stream does move on to the next
+
+00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:19.440
+talk. Folks are welcome to join Jeff here on
+
+00:08:22.340 --> 00:08:22.500
+BigBlueButton. If Jeff still has a few more
+
+00:08:24.640 --> 00:08:24.960
+minutes to just chat here or ask questions
+
+00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:26.300
+here, that works as well.
+
+00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:27.240
+[Speaker 1]: JEFF CROSSMAN-WILSONEY-PORTMAN Yeah,
+
+00:08:29.640 --> 00:08:30.140
+if anyone's excited about the tool.
+
+00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:38.880
+Are the notes are available online,
+
+00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:42.360
+right? I uploaded an org file that was my
+
+00:08:43.700 --> 00:08:43.940
+talk, and I actually included some
+
+00:08:48.900 --> 00:08:49.300
+references. Like at the end,
+
+00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:51.360
+there's some links and stuff like that.
+
+00:08:54.620 --> 00:08:54.820
+Whenever you see like a underlined thing in
+
+00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:56.980
+my presentation, it's like I was kind of
+
+00:08:58.520 --> 00:08:59.020
+thinking people would have access to the
+
+00:09:00.920 --> 00:09:01.160
+actual presentation itself so they could go
+
+00:09:04.640 --> 00:09:05.140
+and see what it was I was linking to some PDF
+
+00:09:07.540 --> 00:09:08.000
+somewhere. How annoying is this for multiple
+
+00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:09.960
+compilers? It's annoying,
+
+00:09:15.620 --> 00:09:15.860
+Ben. I basically have separate parsers for
+
+00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:18.760
+Clang and GCC, and I'm not supporting MSVC at
+
+00:09:23.540 --> 00:09:23.940
+the moment. So yeah, that's where I do worry
+
+00:09:26.520 --> 00:09:26.680
+about its fragility, about the way I'm kind
+
+00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:28.220
+of parsing these error messages,
+
+00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:29.840
+which are idiosyncratic.
+
+00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:38.680
+Oh, yeah, great. Thank you,
+
+00:09:49.060 --> 00:09:49.220
+Amin. That's good. Should just follow that
+
+00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:50.100
+link, I guess.
+
+00:09:56.420 --> 00:09:56.720
+[Speaker 0]: Well, yeah, it's so that you have to scroll
+
+00:09:59.020 --> 00:09:59.380
+down a little bit underneath the video
+
+00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:00.960
+embedding itself. There's timestamps.
+
+00:10:01.880 --> 00:10:02.380
+And then below the timestamps,
+
+00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:03.740
+I see a bunch of links,
+
+00:10:06.140 --> 00:10:06.640
+including 1 that says download.org.
+
+00:10:09.800 --> 00:10:10.020
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, let's see what that is.
+
+00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:13.320
+Is that the right 1? Yeah,
+
+00:10:14.780 --> 00:10:15.280
+that's it. That's the 1.
+
+00:10:19.280 --> 00:10:19.540
+Yeah, you can also see all of my hacks to Org
+
+00:10:20.740 --> 00:10:21.240
+Present are in there as well.
+
+00:10:25.760 --> 00:10:25.920
+I followed the System Crafters thing and made
+
+00:10:27.160 --> 00:10:27.660
+a bunch of my own modifications.
+
+00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:33.420
+Org Present has this problem where every
+
+00:10:35.760 --> 00:10:36.060
+heading is a slide, which I don't like.
+
+00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:37.580
+I kind of want hierarchy.
+
+00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:41.540
+You know? Oh, no. Sorry.
+
+00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:43.940
+Every level 1 heading is a slide.
+
+00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:46.720
+And I kind of want hierarchy among the
+
+00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:51.640
+slides. And I had to sort of invent it in
+
+00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:54.820
+that system myself through navigation.
+
+00:11:03.800 --> 00:11:04.300
+It looks like things have quieted down.
+
+00:11:09.520 --> 00:11:10.020
+Shall we call it?
+
+00:11:14.020 --> 00:11:14.120
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, sure. So yeah, thanks again for the
+
+00:11:17.780 --> 00:11:18.120
+great talk, Jeff. And also to the audience
+
+00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:19.460
+for questions and discussions.
+
+00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:21.900
+People are welcome to stay here on BBB if
+
+00:11:24.060 --> 00:11:24.160
+Jeff has time to continue the discussions and
+
+00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:25.520
+ask any questions they might have.
+
+00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:27.320
+Otherwise, yeah, we can wrap it.
+
+00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:29.380
+[Speaker 1]: Sure. Thank you so much.
+
+00:11:30.400 --> 00:11:30.880
+And I love this conference.
+
+00:11:33.900 --> 00:11:34.120
+I've been a happy attendee since like 2015 or
+
+00:11:36.760 --> 00:11:37.120
+something. So yeah, it's great.
+
+00:11:37.760 --> 00:11:38.260
+Thank you for your work.
+
+00:11:41.040 --> 00:11:41.260
+[Speaker 0]: Thank you. Cheers. I mean,
+
+00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:43.260
+in large part, thanks to awesome people like
+
+00:11:44.280 --> 00:11:44.540
+you who give these amazing talks.
+
+00:11:45.420 --> 00:11:45.920
+So Thank you as well.
+
+00:14:30.260 --> 00:14:30.460
+[Speaker 1]: You are currently the only person in this
+
+00:14:30.460 --> 00:14:30.960
+conference.
+
+00:21:15.260 --> 00:21:15.760
+You
+
+00:21:37.760 --> 00:21:38.260
+1
+
+00:22:23.260 --> 00:22:23.760
+1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 3 4 1 2 4 1 1 3 4 1 1 2
+
+00:22:28.100 --> 00:22:28.600
+3 3 4 1 2 1
+
+00:24:41.445 --> 00:24:41.945
+You
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-parallel--parallel-text-replacement--lovro-valentino-picotti--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-parallel--parallel-text-replacement--lovro-valentino-picotti--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0fc2d8ef
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-parallel--parallel-text-replacement--lovro-valentino-picotti--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,767 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:08.620 --> 00:00:09.120
+[Speaker 0]: And I think we are live.
+
+00:00:09.620 --> 00:00:09.960
+Hello again, everyone.
+
+00:00:10.940 --> 00:00:11.440
+And hi, Lovro. How are you doing?
+
+00:00:15.339 --> 00:00:15.839
+[Speaker 1]: Just a second. Should I join the other room?
+
+00:00:18.460 --> 00:00:18.740
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, no, no, you can stay here.
+
+00:00:20.860 --> 00:00:21.360
+[Speaker 1]: I can stay in the backstage.
+
+00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:24.320
+[Speaker 0]: Everything is fine. I don't think you are
+
+00:00:25.520 --> 00:00:25.760
+technically in the backstage right now you're
+
+00:00:26.750 --> 00:00:26.820
+just in Big Blue Button with us.
+
+00:00:30.040 --> 00:00:30.160
+[Speaker 1]: Oh thanks. Oh because I have 2 of them open I
+
+00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:31.280
+thought there were 2 different rooms.
+
+00:00:32.720 --> 00:00:33.220
+1 is the backstage and the other,
+
+00:00:38.239 --> 00:00:38.360
+[Speaker 0]: whichever, I can hear you and so can the
+
+00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:40.080
+stream, so don't worry too much about which
+
+00:00:41.140 --> 00:00:41.220
+is the backstage and which is the front page.
+
+00:00:41.540 --> 00:00:41.760
+[Speaker 1]: I have no idea. Well, great,
+
+00:00:43.660 --> 00:00:43.940
+great. Okay, yeah. Yeah,
+
+00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:45.480
+I'm doing great, just to answer your
+
+00:00:45.480 --> 00:00:45.980
+question.
+
+00:00:47.379 --> 00:00:47.640
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, great, great, Okay,
+
+00:00:49.900 --> 00:00:50.280
+well splendid. So, I've pasted a link again
+
+00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:51.760
+on IRC if you want to ask your questions,
+
+00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:53.200
+and I'd invite you to do so,
+
+00:00:54.620 --> 00:00:55.040
+because we have about 9 minutes of laborious
+
+00:00:56.580 --> 00:00:57.080
+time to answer as many of them as possible.
+
+00:00:58.360 --> 00:00:58.860
+And I'm going to start with the first 1.
+
+00:01:01.100 --> 00:01:01.600
+This looks great and was very well-presented.
+
+00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:03.420
+Do you have plans to upstream this
+
+00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:04.739
+functionality into Emacs?
+
+00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:08.200
+[Speaker 1]: That's a good idea. That's something we
+
+00:01:08.860 --> 00:01:09.360
+thought about as well.
+
+00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:12.140
+Currently, we haven't really contacted anyone
+
+00:01:16.160 --> 00:01:16.660
+to do this. Also, the current implementation,
+
+00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:20.080
+so as I mentioned in the presentation towards
+
+00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:22.300
+the end, so we use a little bit of advice to
+
+00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:24.520
+sort of patch some functionality of query
+
+00:01:26.479 --> 00:01:26.600
+replace because not everything was easy to
+
+00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:29.180
+implement. The core functionality luckily
+
+00:01:32.220 --> 00:01:32.340
+was, But there's a couple of fixes we need to
+
+00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:34.340
+apply to the message function in order to
+
+00:01:36.380 --> 00:01:36.820
+display a nice message in the echo buffer
+
+00:01:39.140 --> 00:01:39.320
+because this doesn't happen on its own when
+
+00:01:41.100 --> 00:01:41.580
+we're using this trick with this big regex
+
+00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:45.720
+and whatnot. So I don't think that the code
+
+00:01:47.080 --> 00:01:47.580
+as it is would be upstreamable.
+
+00:01:50.600 --> 00:01:51.100
+I think probably if we wanted to upstream it,
+
+00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:54.280
+we would have to do some proper work on
+
+00:01:57.180 --> 00:01:57.340
+refactoring query place itself in order to
+
+00:01:58.780 --> 00:01:58.979
+integrate all of this functionality just
+
+00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:02.380
+directly without any patching left and right.
+
+00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:06.120
+But yeah, definitely something I've given
+
+00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:10.259
+some thought, but so far no progress on it.
+
+00:02:11.640 --> 00:02:11.980
+I haven't actually started doing anything
+
+00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:12.740
+about it.
+
+00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:17.780
+[Speaker 0]: Right, So I'm curious now,
+
+00:02:19.640 --> 00:02:19.900
+you developed the feature and then you moved
+
+00:02:21.600 --> 00:02:21.740
+on to the presentation or did you want to do
+
+00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:23.200
+a presentation for EmacsConf and then you
+
+00:02:24.140 --> 00:02:24.640
+worked on something like this?
+
+00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:26.860
+Which was it first, the chicken or the egg?
+
+00:02:28.220 --> 00:02:28.720
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it was the former.
+
+00:02:31.320 --> 00:02:31.820
+So this is a problem I've been aware of for,
+
+00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:33.840
+I mean, probably a couple of years.
+
+00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:35.640
+And, you know, I talked to my friend
+
+00:02:37.600 --> 00:02:37.840
+Valentino about it and we had like a little
+
+00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:39.740
+discussion, you know, how would we do this?
+
+00:02:41.880 --> 00:02:42.380
+And then I remember back when I was
+
+00:02:44.140 --> 00:02:44.260
+researching about this problem and the
+
+00:02:45.100 --> 00:02:45.600
+various Emacs Lisp solutions,
+
+00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:47.960
+all I could find were these solutions that
+
+00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:49.600
+would, you know, just shy away from
+
+00:02:50.640 --> 00:02:50.920
+implementing the RegEx case,
+
+00:02:52.340 --> 00:02:52.840
+which is a really complicated 1.
+
+00:02:54.720 --> 00:02:55.220
+And, after some discussion,
+
+00:02:56.140 --> 00:02:56.580
+my friend and I decided,
+
+00:02:58.080 --> 00:02:58.320
+okay, what the hell? Let's,
+
+00:02:59.280 --> 00:02:59.480
+let's try and implement this.
+
+00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:02.300
+How hard can it be? And yeah,
+
+00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:03.780
+basically in 1 afternoon,
+
+00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:06.500
+the idea, our little trick and the whole
+
+00:03:07.440 --> 00:03:07.940
+implementation was born.
+
+00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:11.680
+And then I think that was maybe around a year
+
+00:03:12.540 --> 00:03:13.040
+ago, maybe a bit less.
+
+00:03:14.480 --> 00:03:14.680
+And then through the months,
+
+00:03:15.920 --> 00:03:16.420
+we just thought, oh yeah,
+
+00:03:17.420 --> 00:03:17.640
+maybe we could present this,
+
+00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:19.200
+maybe it would be interesting for people to
+
+00:03:20.660 --> 00:03:20.920
+see and that's how we came up with the idea
+
+00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:22.940
+to present at EmacsConf.
+
+00:03:27.900 --> 00:03:28.180
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, great. I don't see other people asking
+
+00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:30.540
+questions. So people, it's nice if I ask
+
+00:03:31.100 --> 00:03:31.600
+questions but you know,
+
+00:03:33.160 --> 00:03:33.340
+the point is kind of for you to ask the
+
+00:03:35.140 --> 00:03:35.280
+questions. I see someone who's joined us on
+
+00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:37.120
+BBB. Peter, would you like to ask a question
+
+00:03:41.720 --> 00:03:41.980
+maybe? Otherwise I see another person writing
+
+00:03:43.040 --> 00:03:43.260
+a question on the pad,
+
+00:03:44.540 --> 00:03:44.700
+so we can either move for this 1.
+
+00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:46.800
+So I'll leave Peter to figure out if they
+
+00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:47.960
+want to ask a question.
+
+00:03:49.160 --> 00:03:49.660
+So I'm moving on to the next question.
+
+00:03:57.900 --> 00:03:58.180
+[Speaker 2]: I can jump in. That's a really well done talk
+
+00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:02.120
+and you really clearly laid out the problem
+
+00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:03.500
+and the solution there.
+
+00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:05.740
+While I was watching it,
+
+00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:11.040
+I was thinking maybe the nice way to name it
+
+00:04:13.140 --> 00:04:13.440
+is just to name it query replace and query
+
+00:04:15.700 --> 00:04:16.019
+replace regext, you know,
+
+00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:18.980
+overloading the original functions and then
+
+00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:23.460
+using a prefix number,
+
+00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:27.380
+like control number to indicate how many
+
+00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:29.780
+replacements you're going to do.
+
+00:04:31.640 --> 00:04:32.140
+But maybe that doesn't work with the
+
+00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:37.120
+recursive editing stuff,
+
+00:04:37.960 --> 00:04:38.180
+which I don't use much.
+
+00:04:40.440 --> 00:04:40.940
+So I don't have a good method.
+
+00:04:43.260 --> 00:04:43.760
+[Speaker 1]: I think it would definitely work.
+
+00:04:46.260 --> 00:04:46.440
+Well, the question is,
+
+00:04:47.880 --> 00:04:48.380
+if we just overwrite the definitions,
+
+00:04:51.700 --> 00:04:52.200
+then, oh, well, I guess we could do that.
+
+00:04:53.410 --> 00:04:53.560
+Nothing stops us. I mean,
+
+00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:54.880
+we're in Emacs. We could definitely do that.
+
+00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:55.920
+And then if you give, like,
+
+00:04:57.540 --> 00:04:57.720
+a prefix argument, maybe it just drops you
+
+00:04:59.060 --> 00:04:59.560
+back to the original query replace.
+
+00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:01.160
+Yeah, that's an idea. For now,
+
+00:05:02.440 --> 00:05:02.920
+we decided, OK, let's just keep everything
+
+00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:05.240
+explicitly separate just to avoid any
+
+00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:05.740
+confusion.
+
+00:05:09.220 --> 00:05:09.400
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think that's the right thing to do
+
+00:05:11.820 --> 00:05:12.320
+for now. What I'm actually thinking is that
+
+00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:13.940
+when you do query replace,
+
+00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:16.100
+it just does the regular query replace.
+
+00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:17.440
+And if you're going to do,
+
+00:05:20.140 --> 00:05:20.640
+say, 3 parallel replacements,
+
+00:05:21.340 --> 00:05:21.840
+then you do Control-U,
+
+00:05:25.580 --> 00:05:26.080
+query replace. Sorry. Control-3,
+
+00:05:28.580 --> 00:05:28.860
+query replace. And then that way you don't
+
+00:05:33.400 --> 00:05:33.760
+have The final prompt that you give nothing
+
+00:05:33.760 --> 00:05:34.260
+to.
+
+00:05:36.880 --> 00:05:37.380
+[Speaker 1]: Exactly, that's actually not a bad idea.
+
+00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:40.080
+I think I like that. Yeah,
+
+00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:41.300
+that's not a bad idea.
+
+00:05:44.760 --> 00:05:44.920
+[Speaker 0]: It's always a quagmire whether to ask for an
+
+00:05:47.080 --> 00:05:47.580
+argument or to use the universal argument.
+
+00:05:51.060 --> 00:05:51.380
+When you're working with Emacs and especially
+
+00:05:52.640 --> 00:05:52.960
+the UX side of things in the package,
+
+00:05:54.900 --> 00:05:55.020
+it's so complicated to figure out which 1 you
+
+00:05:56.880 --> 00:05:57.380
+want to do. In this particular case,
+
+00:06:00.340 --> 00:06:00.840
+I think it's the better option to use the
+
+00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:03.120
+universal argument or any kind of argument
+
+00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:04.540
+with a control number before.
+
+00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:10.440
+All right, we have about 3 more minutes of
+
+00:06:12.440 --> 00:06:12.720
+questions. Peter, if you don't mind,
+
+00:06:14.440 --> 00:06:14.940
+I'll keep reading the questions in the chat.
+
+00:06:19.440 --> 00:06:19.940
+Did you use pair programming while developing
+
+00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:21.600
+it, it being a package,
+
+00:06:22.440 --> 00:06:22.940
+or did you work independently,
+
+00:06:24.840 --> 00:06:25.340
+alternating and reviewing with Valentino?
+
+00:06:28.320 --> 00:06:28.440
+[Speaker 1]: It was definitely a pair programming kind of
+
+00:06:29.440 --> 00:06:29.940
+thing. So if I remember correctly,
+
+00:06:32.760 --> 00:06:33.260
+I was sitting at the computer and Valentino
+
+00:06:36.020 --> 00:06:36.520
+was in front of a whiteboard and we were just
+
+00:06:38.400 --> 00:06:38.900
+dissecting this regex and a bunch of examples
+
+00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:41.820
+and trying to get these capture groups and
+
+00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:44.440
+stuff that we have to remap internally to get
+
+00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:46.880
+these offsets right and avoid off by 1 error
+
+00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:48.420
+and stuff like that. So yeah,
+
+00:06:49.280 --> 00:06:49.780
+definitely a team effort.
+
+00:06:53.660 --> 00:06:54.160
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, great. Moving on to the next question.
+
+00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:55.740
+What is your background in programming?
+
+00:06:57.440 --> 00:06:57.620
+Was it difficult to implement following the
+
+00:06:59.700 --> 00:07:00.040
+same API and architecture as what is already
+
+00:07:00.200 --> 00:07:00.700
+in Emacs?
+
+00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:05.680
+[Speaker 1]: So maybe just a quick back story.
+
+00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:07.440
+Both Valentino and I are actually PhD
+
+00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:08.680
+students in computer science,
+
+00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:10.460
+and we literally share an office.
+
+00:07:12.960 --> 00:07:13.180
+So that's how we even started talking about
+
+00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:14.900
+this whole thing. And we both use Emacs,
+
+00:07:18.380 --> 00:07:18.640
+of course. But I don't think this was too
+
+00:07:20.740 --> 00:07:20.880
+hard to implement because luckily all of the
+
+00:07:22.300 --> 00:07:22.540
+interactive functionality like this
+
+00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:24.100
+complicated undo, skipping,
+
+00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:26.180
+execute until the end and so on,
+
+00:07:27.980 --> 00:07:28.380
+all of this is really just already provided
+
+00:07:29.860 --> 00:07:30.360
+by the Emacs queer replace implementation.
+
+00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:34.360
+So sort of what we do is we just invoke it as
+
+00:07:36.080 --> 00:07:36.220
+a function and delegate to it.
+
+00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:38.000
+And we came up with this clever trick to
+
+00:07:42.380 --> 00:07:42.560
+basically delegate this multi-replacement to
+
+00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:45.660
+this 1 single function that's already there.
+
+00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:48.480
+So it wasn't too complicated.
+
+00:07:54.780 --> 00:07:54.960
+[Speaker 0]: Alright. And we have about 2 minutes of time
+
+00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:56.040
+for the last question.
+
+00:07:58.040 --> 00:07:58.260
+What did you learn about Emacs programming or
+
+00:08:00.020 --> 00:08:00.100
+programming in general while working on this
+
+00:08:02.320 --> 00:08:02.820
+project? A very wide question for me.
+
+00:08:05.840 --> 00:08:06.340
+[Speaker 1]: Maybe 1 thing I would like to add to the
+
+00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:09.440
+previous just answer is I don't want to say
+
+00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:10.660
+like you know we're PhDs,
+
+00:08:12.780 --> 00:08:13.260
+a PhD is required for this or anything,
+
+00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:15.920
+not at all. It's mostly just for a little bit
+
+00:08:19.220 --> 00:08:19.720
+of context, but I think obviously,
+
+00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:21.020
+even if you're not a PhD,
+
+00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:22.540
+I mean, you don't even require like
+
+00:08:24.960 --> 00:08:25.460
+university, you know, education or anything.
+
+00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:28.040
+It wasn't overly difficult to implement,
+
+00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:31.080
+sort of just read some code that's already
+
+00:08:33.539 --> 00:08:34.039
+there and you know follow what you see and
+
+00:08:35.860 --> 00:08:36.020
+poke Emacs a little bit and do a little bit
+
+00:08:38.140 --> 00:08:38.320
+of debugging on the internals and you can
+
+00:08:40.280 --> 00:08:40.440
+definitely get it. So definitely not a
+
+00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:42.400
+prerequisite to have a degree or anything to
+
+00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:45.600
+do any of this stuff. Okay so Coming back to
+
+00:08:48.420 --> 00:08:48.560
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I'm going to amend a little bit the
+
+00:08:49.680 --> 00:08:49.960
+question because we only have 1 minute.
+
+00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:52.100
+So just 1 thing in 10 seconds,
+
+00:08:52.490 --> 00:08:52.540
+[Speaker 2]: what did you
+
+00:08:53.040 --> 00:08:53.540
+[Speaker 0]: learn about this?
+
+00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:54.380
+[Speaker 1]: your last question. What did I learn about
+
+00:08:56.420 --> 00:08:56.920
+Emacs programming? That Emacs is so flexible
+
+00:08:59.160 --> 00:08:59.360
+that I can go and I can patch literally its
+
+00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:01.880
+message function. And that is how we achieve
+
+00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:04.180
+the nice message function in the echo buffer.
+
+00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:06.980
+So I can literally go and patch something as
+
+00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:08.060
+crucial as message.
+
+00:09:09.920 --> 00:09:10.420
+[Speaker 0]: It's great. That's a lovely 1.
+
+00:09:12.260 --> 00:09:12.380
+And I think, again, we're going back to the
+
+00:09:13.660 --> 00:09:13.780
+philosophy of Emacs. Everything is
+
+00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:15.520
+programmable and even changing the message
+
+00:09:16.640 --> 00:09:16.800
+function is great. All right,
+
+00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:17.640
+well, thank you so much,
+
+00:09:19.540 --> 00:09:19.660
+Lovro, and thanks to Valentino as well,
+
+00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:21.960
+who's not here, but who's contributed to this
+
+00:09:23.900 --> 00:09:24.400
+talk. Any last word?
+
+00:09:29.540 --> 00:09:29.800
+[Speaker 1]: Well, just if you're gonna build any
+
+00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:32.160
+solutions, try to make them as foolproof and
+
+00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:34.540
+as 100% as possible so we get more of these
+
+00:09:36.280 --> 00:09:36.420
+goodies that are nice and robust for
+
+00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:37.500
+everybody to use.
+
+00:09:39.400 --> 00:09:39.620
+[Speaker 0]: All right, lovely. Well,
+
+00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:40.580
+thank you so much, Lover,
+
+00:09:41.940 --> 00:09:42.380
+for your presentation and your answer.
+
+00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:44.640
+We'll be moving on to the next talk in just
+
+00:09:47.260 --> 00:09:47.720
+about 5 seconds, and I'll see you after.
+
+00:09:47.900 --> 00:09:48.400
+Bye, Lovro!
+
+00:09:49.760 --> 00:09:50.260
+[Speaker 1]: Yep, bye bye!
+
+00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:01.560
+[Speaker 0]: So I'm just waiting to make sure my VNC is a
+
+00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:03.000
+little slow. Okay, we switch to the next
+
+00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:03.740
+talk. All right, Lover,
+
+00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:05.460
+I'm gonna need to go get ready now.
+
+00:10:09.060 --> 00:10:09.560
+Yep. Bye-bye, and thanks for your talk.
+
+00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:11.660
+[Speaker 1]: Bye, thank you, see you.
+
+00:10:15.060 --> 00:10:15.560
+[Speaker 2]: You
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-scheme--bringing-joy-to-scheme-programming--andrew-tropin--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-scheme--bringing-joy-to-scheme-programming--andrew-tropin--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b681859e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-scheme--bringing-joy-to-scheme-programming--andrew-tropin--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,371 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:16.200 --> 00:00:16.700
+[Speaker 0]: I see 2 questions on the panel already.
+
+00:00:22.660 --> 00:00:23.040
+Let's see, 1 asking how much Andrew uses
+
+00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:26.480
+these ripples remotely or versus on their own
+
+00:00:29.240 --> 00:00:29.740
+desktop. And another asking if this can be
+
+00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:31.660
+integrated with EGLOT.
+
+00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:35.060
+And I will note that it is very cool that
+
+00:00:36.580 --> 00:00:37.080
+this year we've had so many talks on Ripples.
+
+00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:41.140
+Just goes to show how powerful Emacs is and
+
+00:00:42.980 --> 00:00:43.140
+just how much or how far you can push it and
+
+00:00:44.040 --> 00:00:44.540
+how much you can do with it.
+
+00:00:53.460 --> 00:00:53.960
+And so see someone asking on IRC,
+
+00:00:57.780 --> 00:00:58.280
+if or how many people use GnuGeeks.
+
+00:01:01.400 --> 00:01:01.900
+Since we are talking about Scheme,
+
+00:01:05.740 --> 00:01:06.220
+GnuGeeks is a great platform slash operating
+
+00:01:10.380 --> 00:01:10.640
+system or distro for your test house,
+
+00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:12.420
+but also for servers and such.
+
+00:01:13.320 --> 00:01:13.780
+They do some impressive,
+
+00:01:15.240 --> 00:01:15.720
+amazing work. And it's all,
+
+00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:19.900
+pretty much all done in Gindugal's scheme.
+
+00:01:30.260 --> 00:01:30.760
+So very cool stuff. Bye.
+
+00:01:45.260 --> 00:01:45.760
+You
+
+00:03:19.940 --> 00:03:20.140
+I see another interesting question on the
+
+00:03:23.440 --> 00:03:23.940
+pad. How hard is it to add support for
+
+00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:25.460
+something other than Guile?
+
+00:03:28.040 --> 00:03:28.200
+And if it makes sense to contribute at this
+
+00:03:28.940 --> 00:03:29.440
+early stage of development?
+
+00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:32.220
+They said that they've written several
+
+00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:34.140
+packages for chicken skin before and they
+
+00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:35.900
+would like to try this 1 as well.
+
+00:05:26.380 --> 00:05:26.880
+I guess since Andrew isn't still here,
+
+00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:29.640
+and there was some chatter about GnuGeeks in
+
+00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:32.900
+the chat, maybe it might be nice for me to
+
+00:05:35.520 --> 00:05:35.800
+share my screen and plug Inukis for a little
+
+00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:39.000
+bit and introduce it or at least show its
+
+00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:41.980
+website to folks who may not have seen it yet
+
+00:05:43.380 --> 00:05:43.880
+so I'm going to try and do that now.
+
+00:05:45.260 --> 00:05:45.760
+You
+
+00:06:19.760 --> 00:06:20.260
+Okay, let's see if this works.
+
+00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:34.040
+Okay, so this is GNU Geeks' website.
+
+00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:35.500
+You can go to geeks.gnu.org.
+
+00:06:38.820 --> 00:06:39.180
+And they introduced it at the top.
+
+00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:43.980
+So it's a wholly free operating system or
+
+00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:45.600
+distribution of GNU Linux.
+
+00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:49.040
+Meaning that it only has free software
+
+00:06:50.840 --> 00:06:51.340
+packaged and no non-free packages,
+
+00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:53.940
+so it is endorsed by the FSF and the GNU
+
+00:06:56.640 --> 00:06:56.920
+project. As someone said in the chat,
+
+00:06:57.740 --> 00:06:58.240
+it's kind of like Nix,
+
+00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:01.860
+but instead built on GNU Gallop scheme.
+
+00:07:05.320 --> 00:07:05.820
+It has transactional upgrades and rollbacks.
+
+00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:10.380
+So if you do upgrade your system and let's
+
+00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:11.420
+say in the middle of it,
+
+00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:13.700
+your hardware fails or your power goes out,
+
+00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:16.720
+the likelihood of things being corrupted is
+
+00:07:18.840 --> 00:07:19.340
+very low because the upgrade is essentially
+
+00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:22.060
+prepared like in the background.
+
+00:07:24.140 --> 00:07:24.640
+And then pretty much atomically,
+
+00:07:26.780 --> 00:07:27.280
+the system is switched to it.
+
+00:07:30.400 --> 00:07:30.900
+And also if there is some kind of,
+
+00:07:32.400 --> 00:07:32.900
+sorry, I'm losing my voice here.
+
+00:07:34.840 --> 00:07:35.140
+If there is some kind of issue that makes
+
+00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:36.300
+your system unbootable,
+
+00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:41.660
+you could always go back to booting the
+
+00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:44.760
+previous revision of your system when you
+
+00:07:46.100 --> 00:07:46.600
+restart in the Grub bootloader.
+
+00:07:56.740 --> 00:07:57.180
+Yeah, so they have a nice blog where they
+
+00:07:59.340 --> 00:07:59.540
+regularly post updates and what's new in the
+
+00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:01.500
+project. You can go check that out.
+
+00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:07.500
+We also have a packages archive where you can
+
+00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:09.560
+see a list of all the software that has been
+
+00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:11.560
+packaged for GNU Geeks.
+
+00:08:13.620 --> 00:08:14.120
+It is an impressive list.
+
+00:08:16.440 --> 00:08:16.560
+I don't know how many tens of thousands of
+
+00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:20.220
+packages there are. Geeks has been growing
+
+00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:22.840
+very well. And you can search the packages
+
+00:08:29.380 --> 00:08:29.540
+here. And yeah, all kinds of things are
+
+00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:32.299
+packaged. Of course, GNU Emacs is packaged,
+
+00:08:37.260 --> 00:08:37.760
+along with many extensions or packages,
+
+00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:41.260
+GNU Emacs packages that are packaged as
+
+00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:43.340
+system packages for Geeks.
+
+00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:47.460
+Yeah, so definitely go check it out.
+
+00:08:55.680 --> 00:08:56.180
+You can use Geeks both as a standalone
+
+00:08:59.340 --> 00:08:59.840
+package manager, let's say on a Debian-based
+
+00:09:00.780 --> 00:09:01.280
+distribution like Triscale,
+
+00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:06.340
+for example, or you could install it like as
+
+00:09:08.900 --> 00:09:09.400
+a complete system distribution on its own.
+
+00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:16.000
+So the former is useful if you want to maybe
+
+00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:18.420
+get a taste for Geeks and try it out before
+
+00:09:21.140 --> 00:09:21.300
+fully committing to it and switching to it as
+
+00:09:24.620 --> 00:09:24.800
+your main distro. You can try it on top of
+
+00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:27.900
+any other distro pretty much and then you can
+
+00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:31.200
+of course install it on its own as well as a
+
+00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:32.060
+system distribution.
+
+00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:51.140
+Yeah, there are a bunch of manuals and
+
+00:09:53.040 --> 00:09:53.300
+reference cards and videos that you're
+
+00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:56.280
+welcome to watch. They have several mailing
+
+00:09:59.240 --> 00:09:59.440
+lists. It sounds like they have a wiki now as
+
+00:10:04.020 --> 00:10:04.400
+well. And the development is done on Gnu
+
+00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:10.180
+Savannah. If we go to savannah.gnu.org
+
+00:10:12.780 --> 00:10:13.280
+slash projects slash geeks,
+
+00:10:18.640 --> 00:10:18.820
+Yeah, the project is developed here and they
+
+00:10:21.300 --> 00:10:21.500
+have a bunch of repositories including the
+
+00:10:24.340 --> 00:10:24.840
+main 1 which is geeks.git
+
+00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:28.380
+itself. So yeah, folks are welcome to go
+
+00:10:32.380 --> 00:10:32.880
+check it out. Let's see,
+
+00:10:35.860 --> 00:10:36.260
+maybe we can go have a look at some package
+
+00:10:37.540 --> 00:10:37.840
+definitions, although I think we're almost
+
+00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:39.440
+out of time on the live stream.
+
+00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:43.100
+So, yeah, just quickly.
+
+00:10:45.280 --> 00:10:45.780
+Emacs to the CM has all the,
+
+00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:49.140
+Emacs packages or Emacs itself.
+
+00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:52.620
+And Emacs-xyz is where you'll find all the
+
+00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:54.980
+Emacs like ELPA packages,
+
+00:10:57.980 --> 00:10:58.260
+but package for use on GNU Geeks system or
+
+00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:01.360
+with GNU Geeks. And I think that's all the
+
+00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:04.580
+time that we have. So yeah,
+
+00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:06.300
+thanks for tuning in, folks.
+
+00:11:07.800 --> 00:11:08.300
+Please post your questions on the pad.
+
+00:11:09.280 --> 00:11:09.780
+We'll pass them on to Andrew.
+
+00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:12.720
+And yeah, hope you enjoy this.
+
+00:11:15.140 --> 00:11:15.360
+Definitely go check out Andrew's work and Gnu
+
+00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:25.580
+geeks as well. You are currently the only
+
+00:11:26.280 --> 00:11:26.780
+person in this conference.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-sharing--sharing-emacs-is-caring-emacs-emacs-education-and-why-i-embraced-video--jacob-boxerman--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-sharing--sharing-emacs-is-caring-emacs-emacs-education-and-why-i-embraced-video--jacob-boxerman--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2c35ee7e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-sharing--sharing-emacs-is-caring-emacs-emacs-education-and-why-i-embraced-video--jacob-boxerman--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1871 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:06.060
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, we're live. So whoever's in the
+
+00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:08.380
+background might be able to see you live in
+
+00:00:09.900 --> 00:00:10.080
+about 10 seconds as soon as the stream
+
+00:00:11.380 --> 00:00:11.880
+catches up. Hi Jacob, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:12.360 --> 00:00:12.540
+[Speaker 0]: Got that? We're live. I'm doing well.
+
+00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:13.580
+How are you doing today?
+
+00:00:16.200 --> 00:00:16.400
+[Speaker 1]: I am doing well and this is the very last
+
+00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:18.160
+talk of the day so I'm very excited not
+
+00:00:20.020 --> 00:00:20.279
+because it finishes but because I am tired
+
+00:00:22.080 --> 00:00:22.580
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah very understandable.
+
+00:00:23.860 --> 00:00:24.320
+Well thanks for all of your hard work.
+
+00:00:26.180 --> 00:00:26.320
+We all really appreciate it and all the other
+
+00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:26.820
+organizers.
+
+00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:29.160
+[Speaker 1]: and need some sleep. Well on behalf of all
+
+00:00:30.980 --> 00:00:31.220
+the organizers thank you but you know it all
+
+00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:34.120
+it makes it all worthwhile when we see the
+
+00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:36.400
+valuable contribution that every single 1 of
+
+00:00:37.160 --> 00:00:37.660
+our speakers are making,
+
+00:00:39.559 --> 00:00:39.920
+not only for recording their talks,
+
+00:00:42.180 --> 00:00:42.380
+which is a tough demand on people to say,
+
+00:00:43.420 --> 00:00:43.920
+oh, if you want to go to EmacsConf,
+
+00:00:45.480 --> 00:00:45.980
+you might want to record your talk.
+
+00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:49.120
+But then almost all of you do it and you
+
+00:00:50.440 --> 00:00:50.640
+spend a lot of time with us answering
+
+00:00:51.580 --> 00:00:51.940
+questions. So we couldn't do it.
+
+00:00:53.680 --> 00:00:53.900
+You know, we wouldn't be spending as much
+
+00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:55.460
+energy, half as much energy,
+
+00:00:58.320 --> 00:00:58.660
+if we didn't believe that it was worth it.
+
+00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:01.320
+So now it's me thanking you on behalf of all
+
+00:01:01.480 --> 00:01:01.980
+the speakers.
+
+00:01:03.900 --> 00:01:04.200
+[Speaker 0]: Well thank you that's part of what I wanted
+
+00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:06.340
+to get across in my talk was that coming
+
+00:01:08.800 --> 00:01:09.000
+together and sharing ourselves and you know
+
+00:01:11.140 --> 00:01:11.320
+not just putting little little essays out
+
+00:01:13.020 --> 00:01:13.380
+there and single videos but coming together
+
+00:01:15.720 --> 00:01:15.940
+as a community you know sharing ourselves our
+
+00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:18.800
+faces our voices you know it really brings us
+
+00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:20.340
+together and makes everyone stronger.
+
+00:01:22.940 --> 00:01:23.400
+[Speaker 1]: Exactly, and I think it's been a recurring
+
+00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:27.440
+theme. Most of the talks we have at
+
+00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:29.200
+EmacsConf, they're usually about sharing,
+
+00:01:30.580 --> 00:01:30.800
+obviously, sharing the knowledge that they've
+
+00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:33.340
+acquired, either writing a package or
+
+00:01:35.860 --> 00:01:36.040
+learning how to use Emacs as a professor in
+
+00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:37.700
+academia or stuff like this.
+
+00:01:39.380 --> 00:01:39.600
+But what I particularly like this year about
+
+00:01:41.720 --> 00:01:41.960
+the different talks we've had is that they've
+
+00:01:44.479 --> 00:01:44.979
+really made the sharing even more obvious.
+
+00:01:46.720 --> 00:01:46.840
+We've had the mentoring this afternoon and we
+
+00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:49.740
+have your talk about using videos as a
+
+00:01:51.100 --> 00:01:51.600
+different medium to get into something.
+
+00:01:54.020 --> 00:01:54.520
+And I really think in terms of accessibility
+
+00:01:58.780 --> 00:01:58.940
+to Emacs, all of you who talked about this
+
+00:01:59.960 --> 00:02:00.180
+topic are doing a wonderful job.
+
+00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:01.900
+So, thank you again for all of this.
+
+00:02:04.080 --> 00:02:04.240
+[Speaker 0]: Thank you. Yeah, do we have any questions to
+
+00:02:04.360 --> 00:02:04.860
+be answering?
+
+00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:08.560
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so only 1 for now and I'll invite
+
+00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:11.200
+people as usual to please add their question
+
+00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:13.220
+to the pad or to join us on BBB.
+
+00:02:15.920 --> 00:02:16.080
+Now the chat is open if you want to join us
+
+00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:17.980
+on BBB and ask your questions directly.
+
+00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:20.740
+And in the meantime, I will read the first
+
+00:02:22.700 --> 00:02:23.200
+question. So, Kroting,
+
+00:02:25.040 --> 00:02:25.520
+are you using OxReveal to make your slides?
+
+00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:26.960
+If not, what are you using?
+
+00:02:27.740 --> 00:02:28.240
+They look very elegant,
+
+00:02:28.820 --> 00:02:29.320
+and I concur.
+
+00:02:32.920 --> 00:02:33.420
+[Speaker 0]: That's true. I am using OxReveal.
+
+00:02:35.320 --> 00:02:35.580
+I have a whole entire video on it.
+
+00:02:36.020 --> 00:02:36.520
+So if you're interested,
+
+00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:38.000
+feel free to take a look.
+
+00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:40.340
+It's very simple to get started with.
+
+00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:42.780
+There are a lot of different packages to use
+
+00:02:45.640 --> 00:02:46.140
+Reveal.js and Emacs. OxReveal or OrgReveal
+
+00:02:47.320 --> 00:02:47.820
+seems to be pretty easy to use.
+
+00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:49.020
+So try that 1 out. Yeah,
+
+00:02:49.440 --> 00:02:49.940
+it's really nice.
+
+00:02:54.020 --> 00:02:54.160
+[Speaker 1]: Awesome. I'm going to give a little bit of
+
+00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:56.200
+time for the other people to finish writing
+
+00:02:56.980 --> 00:02:57.260
+their answer. In the meantime,
+
+00:02:58.260 --> 00:02:58.660
+I'll ask you 1 of my own.
+
+00:02:59.620 --> 00:02:59.960
+So you said you were in college,
+
+00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:01.780
+right? In com sci. Sorry,
+
+00:03:02.980 --> 00:03:03.480
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah.
+
+00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:07.460
+[Speaker 1]: computer science. I think it's great to find
+
+00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:09.360
+people in computer science who have,
+
+00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:12.280
+from the get-go, as soon as their bachelor,
+
+00:03:16.220 --> 00:03:16.360
+an appetite for sharing and vulgarizing a lot
+
+00:03:17.780 --> 00:03:17.900
+of knowledge. Because it feels like if you
+
+00:03:18.540 --> 00:03:18.760
+get started like this,
+
+00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:20.740
+you're gonna have a well over time as you
+
+00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:21.820
+progress with the learning.
+
+00:03:23.720 --> 00:03:23.860
+So I'm very excited to see what you do in the
+
+00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:25.220
+coming years because of this.
+
+00:03:26.420 --> 00:03:26.920
+[Speaker 0]: Thank you, thank you, yeah.
+
+00:03:29.700 --> 00:03:29.860
+And Emacs has been like very central to my
+
+00:03:32.100 --> 00:03:32.300
+education as well. It's a great way to sort
+
+00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:34.640
+of organize myself and also it's a good way
+
+00:03:36.040 --> 00:03:36.220
+to share with other people with Org Mode.
+
+00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:38.500
+I can export my code, I can export notes.
+
+00:03:39.340 --> 00:03:39.840
+It makes it so simple.
+
+00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:42.720
+My peers are also impressed by my PDF
+
+00:03:44.260 --> 00:03:44.440
+documents and whatever I can produce with
+
+00:03:48.040 --> 00:03:48.160
+[Speaker 1]: Oh yeah. If only they knew how much time it
+
+00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:50.340
+takes us to get LaTeX to behave properly.
+
+00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:52.860
+[Speaker 0]: Emacs. Right, right. I see some more
+
+00:03:53.980 --> 00:03:54.480
+questions coming in I can answer.
+
+00:03:56.940 --> 00:03:57.100
+[Speaker 1]: Sure, I'll read it for you so that it's a
+
+00:03:57.440 --> 00:03:57.940
+little more interactive.
+
+00:03:59.920 --> 00:04:00.160
+So, second question. Videos can be very
+
+00:04:01.820 --> 00:04:02.320
+inspirational to learn about something by
+
+00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:05.360
+watching it used. I often find it,
+
+00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:07.440
+I often find that I need to do some research
+
+00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:09.440
+after watching a video to learn more.
+
+00:04:10.640 --> 00:04:11.040
+Do you give people links to relevant
+
+00:04:11.820 --> 00:04:12.320
+resources or etc?
+
+00:04:15.060 --> 00:04:15.300
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, that's something I could definitely do
+
+00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:18.300
+more of. When I make a video I try to combine
+
+00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:20.600
+all the relevant resources and make 1 sort of
+
+00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:24.100
+cohesive video. I like to think of my video
+
+00:04:26.580 --> 00:04:26.980
+as a jumping off point to the Emacs manuals
+
+00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:30.160
+because the manuals are so so full but you
+
+00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:31.800
+need to have a sort of a cursory
+
+00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:34.120
+understanding to get started with them.
+
+00:04:35.440 --> 00:04:35.600
+And then yeah, if there are other sort of
+
+00:04:36.880 --> 00:04:37.000
+GitHub links or something like that,
+
+00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:38.720
+I like to put those in the description.
+
+00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:42.980
+[Speaker 1]: Good question. Right. And I think it's arcing
+
+00:04:44.820 --> 00:04:45.320
+back also. I keep using the word arcing back.
+
+00:04:47.420 --> 00:04:47.580
+I'm sorry. It's my... Every EmacsConf I have
+
+00:04:49.440 --> 00:04:49.640
+1 word or 1 phrase that I keep saying over
+
+00:04:51.220 --> 00:04:51.360
+and over again and this 1 is not leaving but
+
+00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:53.240
+don't worry we only have about 1 more hour
+
+00:04:54.640 --> 00:04:55.140
+and then you're done with me arcing out,
+
+00:04:59.060 --> 00:04:59.540
+arcing back to stuff. I think this is
+
+00:05:03.740 --> 00:05:03.960
+reminding me of both the mentoring talk we've
+
+00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:07.120
+had today about onboarding people basically
+
+00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:08.600
+so that they can have a well of a time on
+
+00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:11.240
+their own on Emacs and I'd agree with you,
+
+00:05:13.180 --> 00:05:13.460
+you know, as much as we like to rave about
+
+00:05:15.140 --> 00:05:15.640
+Emacs as a self-documenting editor,
+
+00:05:17.700 --> 00:05:17.860
+about how complete the documentation is,
+
+00:05:18.940 --> 00:05:19.240
+As you've mentioned in your talk,
+
+00:05:21.220 --> 00:05:21.720
+it's not accessible directly to the people.
+
+00:05:23.620 --> 00:05:23.800
+We can yell as much as we want to people on
+
+00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:26.880
+IRC, you just need to RTFM or you just need
+
+00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:29.780
+to do Ctrl-H-V for the variable or Ctrl-H-F.
+
+00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:32.420
+What is a variable? I am not for computer
+
+00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:33.540
+science. What does it mean?
+
+00:05:36.580 --> 00:05:36.780
+It is really blocking a lot of people right
+
+00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:40.960
+from the get-go. And I think the element of
+
+00:05:42.340 --> 00:05:42.520
+interactivity, as you've mentioned in your
+
+00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:45.800
+talk, that is introduced by video just makes
+
+00:05:47.520 --> 00:05:48.020
+the hand-holding that much easier.
+
+00:05:50.940 --> 00:05:51.440
+And it's great to do it like this.
+
+00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:53.680
+All right, I think we've got another
+
+00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:56.320
+questions. What are your fellow codes of
+
+00:05:57.500 --> 00:05:58.000
+students using for their editors?
+
+00:06:00.200 --> 00:06:00.540
+What kinds of feedback do you get from them
+
+00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:02.460
+when they learn about you using Emacs?
+
+00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:05.580
+[Speaker 0]: That's a great question.
+
+00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:10.760
+I think professors want to make things,
+
+00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:12.740
+the entry as simple as possible.
+
+00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:15.700
+So for the first computer science course and
+
+00:06:16.640 --> 00:06:17.140
+the second, at least at Columbia,
+
+00:06:20.380 --> 00:06:20.880
+They use Codeo, which is 1 of those online
+
+00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:26.040
+whole IDEs. Now in the third course,
+
+00:06:27.520 --> 00:06:27.680
+which is sort of more the weed out as they
+
+00:06:29.820 --> 00:06:30.040
+call it, the professor gives you a choice and
+
+00:06:33.320 --> 00:06:33.820
+he says you can use Emacs or you can use Vim.
+
+00:06:36.340 --> 00:06:36.680
+And everyone uses Vim.
+
+00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:39.220
+Not a single person I know is using Emacs,
+
+00:06:43.380 --> 00:06:43.520
+simply because the professor's using Vim and
+
+00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:45.320
+that's what he shows on screen and that's
+
+00:06:46.640 --> 00:06:47.140
+just what everyone else falls into.
+
+00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:50.320
+And it's also, like, they're totally in the
+
+00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:52.320
+terminal, and that can be a big barrier of
+
+00:06:54.640 --> 00:06:55.140
+entry. So I think they see Emacs as like
+
+00:06:59.760 --> 00:07:00.060
+something like Vim, but it's not sort of the
+
+00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:01.960
+same idea. It's not what everyone uses
+
+00:07:03.840 --> 00:07:03.960
+because it's not what's being shown up on
+
+00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:05.660
+screen. So if you're not following,
+
+00:07:06.460 --> 00:07:06.880
+like if you're a new learner,
+
+00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:08.680
+if you're not following with Vim,
+
+00:07:10.320 --> 00:07:10.600
+you might have a little bit of a harder time
+
+00:07:12.740 --> 00:07:12.940
+in these classes because everyone else is
+
+00:07:14.060 --> 00:07:14.560
+also using Vim.
+
+00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:19.920
+[Speaker 1]: Right. And I'm kind of reminded again,
+
+00:07:21.260 --> 00:07:21.640
+it feels like this is the last talk,
+
+00:07:24.020 --> 00:07:24.280
+so I'm reminiscing of all the different talks
+
+00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:26.000
+we've had on the general chat,
+
+00:07:28.340 --> 00:07:28.580
+at least. And you know,
+
+00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:31.020
+it feels like we had, you know,
+
+00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:34.660
+this 1 talk, I can't remember the first name
+
+00:07:36.340 --> 00:07:36.680
+at the presentation, but it was about forcing
+
+00:07:38.760 --> 00:07:38.940
+people to use Emacs and not giving them the
+
+00:07:41.860 --> 00:07:42.040
+choice to do this. And I found it to be such
+
+00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:45.420
+a powerful move to do because usually people,
+
+00:07:47.440 --> 00:07:47.720
+maybe some classes are actually forcing Vim
+
+00:07:49.540 --> 00:07:49.920
+because it's a little more palatable I guess.
+
+00:07:51.020 --> 00:07:51.520
+Do you have something to say on this?
+
+00:07:53.760 --> 00:07:53.940
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah let me actually, I've remembered 1
+
+00:07:55.380 --> 00:07:55.720
+thing, I know there's another course,
+
+00:07:58.880 --> 00:07:59.060
+a fourth course you'd say in assembly and the
+
+00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:01.460
+professor suggests Emacs.
+
+00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:04.340
+However I know that's just 1 professor so I
+
+00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:06.980
+think broadly Vim is more of the standard and
+
+00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:08.480
+yeah what were you, can you repeat what you
+
+00:08:09.880 --> 00:08:10.380
+said about Vim being more sort of friendly?
+
+00:08:12.880 --> 00:08:13.260
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, because it's not,
+
+00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:15.200
+okay, I'm quoting the opinions of other,
+
+00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:17.540
+you know, I would hate to insult Emacs and
+
+00:08:19.400 --> 00:08:19.840
+give myself a bad rep at Emacs comfortable
+
+00:08:23.200 --> 00:08:23.660
+things. But it feels like because modal
+
+00:08:26.280 --> 00:08:26.520
+editing is usually something that people hear
+
+00:08:28.260 --> 00:08:28.420
+from when it starts looking into how to be
+
+00:08:30.460 --> 00:08:30.920
+more efficient when they read text.
+
+00:08:32.220 --> 00:08:32.720
+It feels like the first door,
+
+00:08:35.140 --> 00:08:35.640
+the closest door to this is Vim.
+
+00:08:36.380 --> 00:08:36.880
+And so a lot of professors,
+
+00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:40.220
+because there's very little on-boarding,
+
+00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:41.980
+I mean, I'm going to say the word on-boarding
+
+00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:43.140
+and then I'm going to modulate,
+
+00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:44.760
+but there's very little on-boarding to get
+
+00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:47.480
+into modal editing. You just have your H's
+
+00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:50.380
+and your J's and your K's and your L's and
+
+00:08:51.020 --> 00:08:51.180
+everything works. You know,
+
+00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:52.680
+it does something, yes,
+
+00:08:53.640 --> 00:08:53.960
+the arrows are in weird places,
+
+00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:55.580
+but it does something that is vaguely
+
+00:08:58.260 --> 00:08:58.760
+logical. Whereas with Ctrl-Meta,
+
+00:09:03.380 --> 00:09:03.560
+Hyper, Super, J and then Ctrl-C and Meta 4
+
+00:09:04.560 --> 00:09:05.060
+for good measure, you know,
+
+00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:08.140
+It already feels a little more opaque in
+
+00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:10.460
+terms of how people are going to use this.
+
+00:09:13.780 --> 00:09:13.940
+So, I think it's also 1 good thing about the
+
+00:09:15.860 --> 00:09:16.020
+videos is that people can see you're not
+
+00:09:17.900 --> 00:09:18.400
+contorting your hands in very difficult
+
+00:09:20.920 --> 00:09:21.420
+shapes to use Emacs as the bad rep usually
+
+00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:24.620
+is. But yeah, to come back to what I was
+
+00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:27.040
+saying about Vim, I just feel like they've
+
+00:09:30.460 --> 00:09:30.760
+won the battle in terms of looking very
+
+00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:34.340
+accessible. And for us with Emacs,
+
+00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:37.580
+from the top of our ivory tower,
+
+00:09:39.940 --> 00:09:40.440
+we see the ease of getting into Vim,
+
+00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:43.660
+but we always think, but Vim script is shit,
+
+00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:45.040
+we've got Elisp for us,
+
+00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:46.820
+We can do so many things on our end.
+
+00:09:51.180 --> 00:09:51.340
+So yeah, does that evoke anything to you with
+
+00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:53.160
+regards to Vim versus Emacs in terms of
+
+00:09:53.160 --> 00:09:53.660
+apprehension?
+
+00:09:56.820 --> 00:09:57.040
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I think that Emacs might be more
+
+00:09:59.320 --> 00:09:59.540
+straightforward if you just plop someone down
+
+00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:01.780
+in front of their computer because you press
+
+00:10:03.800 --> 00:10:04.300
+H, you're going to see an H on the screen,
+
+00:10:06.780 --> 00:10:07.280
+right? And Vim is a whole new modal mindset.
+
+00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:10.380
+So for a student who wants to like gain
+
+00:10:13.540 --> 00:10:13.740
+efficiency, then yes, I think that Vim is
+
+00:10:15.160 --> 00:10:15.360
+definitely like, it feels like a more
+
+00:10:16.280 --> 00:10:16.760
+friendly introduction.
+
+00:10:18.340 --> 00:10:18.600
+But I think that Emacs doesn't get enough
+
+00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:20.680
+credit around here. And I'd like to see it
+
+00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:23.460
+more often, because a lot of students,
+
+00:10:25.640 --> 00:10:26.140
+they're not looking to fix the efficiencies
+
+00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:28.580
+in their text editing.
+
+00:10:31.620 --> 00:10:31.780
+They're looking to fix the efficiencies in
+
+00:10:33.620 --> 00:10:34.120
+how they do homework or how they do their
+
+00:10:34.640 --> 00:10:35.140
+programming assignments,
+
+00:10:37.280 --> 00:10:37.540
+and they would save time if they,
+
+00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:39.820
+or at least the mentality for a student,
+
+00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:42.720
+is that if you can just get it done more
+
+00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:44.160
+quickly, like it's more,
+
+00:10:45.540 --> 00:10:45.720
+you know, you do what you're used to,
+
+00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:49.300
+and Vim is just a barrier towards you know
+
+00:10:51.040 --> 00:10:51.180
+getting your work done like how do I copy and
+
+00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:52.960
+paste something it's a whole new set of
+
+00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:55.280
+challenges to learn so I think both have
+
+00:10:56.920 --> 00:10:57.420
+their deficiencies and abilities.
+
+00:11:00.760 --> 00:11:00.920
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah it's funny because I'm just 1 last thing
+
+00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:03.680
+on this it feels like modal editing because
+
+00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:05.860
+it is already weird from the get-go,
+
+00:11:08.260 --> 00:11:08.640
+perhaps it might do a better job of making
+
+00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:10.760
+people uneasy. You know how we say that
+
+00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:12.100
+constraints breeds creativity.
+
+00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:15.180
+Well, Vim constrains you from the get-go.
+
+00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:16.620
+If you do not press I,
+
+00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:18.420
+nothing is going to show up in the buffer
+
+00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:19.540
+that you're currently editing.
+
+00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:22.000
+Whereas Emacs give you this full sense of
+
+00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:24.500
+security by when you press J,
+
+00:11:27.860 --> 00:11:28.360
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, true.
+
+00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:29.760
+[Speaker 1]: it actually inputs J. All right,
+
+00:11:30.540 --> 00:11:30.840
+moving on to another question.
+
+00:11:32.040 --> 00:11:32.540
+And by the way, we've got some time.
+
+00:11:34.740 --> 00:11:35.240
+We have technically about 6 more minutes,
+
+00:11:38.640 --> 00:11:38.940
+but I see Sasha on the other track is already
+
+00:11:40.400 --> 00:11:40.640
+answering questions that I'm in about
+
+00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:43.320
+EmacsConf. So we can go a little longer,
+
+00:11:44.760 --> 00:11:45.040
+as long as I let the organizers know.
+
+00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:46.200
+So we've got about, let's say,
+
+00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:48.320
+6 minutes for now. And we'll see if more
+
+00:11:50.020 --> 00:11:50.220
+questions crop up. All right,
+
+00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:51.540
+moving on to the next question.
+
+00:11:53.400 --> 00:11:53.760
+Did you start those university classes using
+
+00:11:55.180 --> 00:11:55.680
+Emacs, I suppose, in your first year?
+
+00:12:01.640 --> 00:12:01.780
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, yeah, I did. I started with Emacs 2
+
+00:12:02.780 --> 00:12:03.120
+years before entering college,
+
+00:12:04.280 --> 00:12:04.780
+so my junior year of high school.
+
+00:12:09.220 --> 00:12:09.480
+And I've basically over time built up a
+
+00:12:11.180 --> 00:12:11.680
+workflow of how I will take my notes,
+
+00:12:12.900 --> 00:12:13.400
+how I will organize my classes.
+
+00:12:16.280 --> 00:12:16.780
+And now that I'm taking programming classes
+
+00:12:18.280 --> 00:12:18.780
+where Emacs might be more acceptable.
+
+00:12:21.500 --> 00:12:22.000
+It's even enhanced my workflow.
+
+00:12:24.760 --> 00:12:25.260
+Taking notes in Ouro for program assists,
+
+00:12:27.540 --> 00:12:27.720
+everyone talks about it,
+
+00:12:30.640 --> 00:12:30.880
+but from the source, It doesn't get better
+
+00:12:32.860 --> 00:12:33.080
+than that, being able to write with
+
+00:12:34.280 --> 00:12:34.780
+highlighting, with syntax highlighting,
+
+00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:38.720
+with easy exports, running inline code
+
+00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:41.380
+blocks. And a lot of these programming
+
+00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:43.460
+classes, they make you code on a server.
+
+00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:45.320
+And they just say, oh,
+
+00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:46.980
+SSH, and you can use Vim.
+
+00:12:48.560 --> 00:12:49.040
+I can use Tramp, and I can use Emacs,
+
+00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:50.940
+and I'm perfectly at home.
+
+00:12:52.760 --> 00:12:53.260
+It's just such a seamless transition.
+
+00:12:55.380 --> 00:12:55.760
+It's a really amazing way to do school.
+
+00:12:58.260 --> 00:12:58.580
+Professors, you know, all they want is a PDF
+
+00:12:59.220 --> 00:12:59.340
+at the end of the day.
+
+00:13:00.520 --> 00:13:01.020
+They just want the paper on their desk.
+
+00:13:03.420 --> 00:13:03.560
+They're not so picky about how you get it
+
+00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:05.340
+there. They just want it in their hands.
+
+00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:07.540
+So, so Emacs is, it's very usable.
+
+00:13:08.040 --> 00:13:08.540
+It's very doable.
+
+00:13:11.280 --> 00:13:11.580
+[Speaker 1]: Right. I've got a little anecdote on this
+
+00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:13.860
+because you're speaking about the topic of
+
+00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:16.280
+Emacs at university from the perspective of
+
+00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:18.100
+someone who is in computer science.
+
+00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:20.340
+But for me, in the humanities,
+
+00:13:22.900 --> 00:13:23.080
+I just remember those professors who just
+
+00:13:24.940 --> 00:13:25.440
+required you not to use your laptop.
+
+00:13:28.580 --> 00:13:28.780
+And I started with Emacs roughly at the same
+
+00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:32.700
+age as you did. And I was just using it for
+
+00:13:33.160 --> 00:13:33.580
+absolutely everything,
+
+00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:35.740
+for my organization, for producing papers.
+
+00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:38.000
+And to be told that I could not use Emacs for
+
+00:13:38.680 --> 00:13:39.180
+a class for my note-taking,
+
+00:13:43.660 --> 00:13:43.860
+I felt utterly naked in the face of what I
+
+00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:46.720
+needed to do. And yeah,
+
+00:13:47.800 --> 00:13:48.120
+it's great to see those different
+
+00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:49.540
+experiences. And it just,
+
+00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:50.800
+you're always going to be weird.
+
+00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:53.120
+Like I was the weird guy using Emacs in the
+
+00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:55.080
+humanities, but I would have been weird using
+
+00:13:58.440 --> 00:13:58.940
+Vim or any kind of computers with fancy
+
+00:13:59.060 --> 00:13:59.560
+editing.
+
+00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:02.580
+[Speaker 0]: Oh yeah, yeah. And I'm in humanities classes
+
+00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:04.340
+as well, I'm not in a strictly engineering,
+
+00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:06.880
+so people will see me writing an essay about,
+
+00:14:07.780 --> 00:14:08.080
+you know, a philosophy essay,
+
+00:14:09.820 --> 00:14:09.960
+I was working on an essay about Plato and
+
+00:14:11.180 --> 00:14:11.680
+Aristotle, and they say,
+
+00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:14.040
+what are you coding, why are you coding your
+
+00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:16.880
+essay? And I say, well it's just the font
+
+00:14:17.560 --> 00:14:18.060
+looks a little bit different.
+
+00:14:19.300 --> 00:14:19.640
+Everything else is the same words,
+
+00:14:20.800 --> 00:14:21.100
+just the font looks a little different.
+
+00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:22.660
+This is how I like to do it.
+
+00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:25.760
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, those pesky monospace fonts are making us
+
+00:14:27.880 --> 00:14:28.020
+pass as hackers. But for everyone who is
+
+00:14:29.060 --> 00:14:29.560
+behind us, looking at our monitors.
+
+00:14:30.040 --> 00:14:30.540
+[Speaker 0]: Exactly.
+
+00:14:33.900 --> 00:14:34.280
+[Speaker 1]: All right. A little bit of a remark,
+
+00:14:35.760 --> 00:14:36.020
+I guess, towards me and what I said about
+
+00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:37.860
+Vim. So, quoting, before NeoVim,
+
+00:14:39.140 --> 00:14:39.640
+you had to do as much or more configuration
+
+00:14:41.280 --> 00:14:41.760
+to get basic editing done than in Emacs.
+
+00:14:43.520 --> 00:14:43.780
+It's also slower with modal editing compared
+
+00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:45.520
+to Emacs key bindings because you have to
+
+00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:47.640
+press escape and 2 keys to get things done.
+
+00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:49.540
+While in Emacs, you only have to press Ctrl
+
+00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:52.360
+or Meta something to move or search or
+
+00:14:53.400 --> 00:14:53.900
+whatever, and then write.
+
+00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:56.460
+And I tend to agree, I'm not familiar with
+
+00:14:59.260 --> 00:14:59.760
+the ages before NeoVim,
+
+00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:03.620
+But I think we are mostly talking in terms of
+
+00:15:04.900 --> 00:15:05.400
+reputation and communication,
+
+00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:08.480
+like how is Vim considered nowadays or for
+
+00:15:10.760 --> 00:15:11.260
+the last 10 years in the mindset of people
+
+00:15:13.740 --> 00:15:14.240
+choosing or about to choose an editor.
+
+00:15:17.620 --> 00:15:17.860
+And, You know, I keep spitting the fact about
+
+00:15:19.340 --> 00:15:19.480
+VimScript being bad, but I'm going to be
+
+00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:20.980
+honest, I've never actually written any
+
+00:15:24.180 --> 00:15:24.400
+VimScript. I'm just parroting whatever the
+
+00:15:26.760 --> 00:15:26.960
+giants with shoulders I'm standing have been
+
+00:15:28.260 --> 00:15:28.740
+saying to me. And it's not very intelligent,
+
+00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:31.280
+I know, but We also have a very limited pool
+
+00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:34.540
+of time, and I also think that this is a
+
+00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:36.960
+point that your talk addresses in a way.
+
+00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:40.740
+Yes, we could be starting the massive quest
+
+00:15:42.740 --> 00:15:43.180
+of reading the Emacs manual or the ELISP
+
+00:15:45.100 --> 00:15:45.480
+introductory guide or the ELISP complete
+
+00:15:47.620 --> 00:15:48.120
+guide. A lot of people are trying,
+
+00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:49.440
+very highly motivated,
+
+00:15:51.140 --> 00:15:51.220
+I'm going to get started on Emacs and I'm
+
+00:15:51.940 --> 00:15:52.440
+going to do things right.
+
+00:15:53.760 --> 00:15:54.260
+But the fact of the matter is,
+
+00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:56.820
+it's not necessarily a good use of your time
+
+00:15:57.740 --> 00:15:58.240
+to get started like this,
+
+00:16:00.680 --> 00:16:00.840
+because there are so many things you're not
+
+00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:03.660
+going to understand, it kind of goes back,
+
+00:16:04.640 --> 00:16:04.920
+didn't say iBug this time,
+
+00:16:07.700 --> 00:16:08.200
+I stopped myself, it kind of goes back to
+
+00:16:11.040 --> 00:16:11.240
+this I plus 1 Vigoski proximals on
+
+00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:12.940
+development stuff that I was talking about
+
+00:16:16.020 --> 00:16:16.520
+before. The manual is I plus 999.
+
+00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:21.140
+Your video might be I plus 3 or I plus 2 and
+
+00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:23.480
+the hand-holding really does wonders for
+
+00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:26.400
+people to eventually get closer to reading
+
+00:16:27.540 --> 00:16:28.040
+the manuals and stuff like this.
+
+00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:31.500
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah it's a great way just something about
+
+00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:33.660
+giving someone those practical
+
+00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:35.240
+demonstrations, that's something I really
+
+00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:37.080
+appreciate. A lot of these really nice
+
+00:16:38.520 --> 00:16:39.020
+presentations we've had today and yesterday
+
+00:16:41.920 --> 00:16:42.100
+show real life use cases and we get to see
+
+00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:44.480
+people typing and they're working how they
+
+00:16:46.680 --> 00:16:46.920
+would normally work. And that's a great way
+
+00:16:49.040 --> 00:16:49.200
+to begin to understand how you can apply a
+
+00:16:50.680 --> 00:16:50.800
+tool to yourself because at the end of the
+
+00:16:52.040 --> 00:16:52.360
+day Emacs is a tool for us.
+
+00:16:53.760 --> 00:16:54.060
+You know we might take joy in it,
+
+00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:55.440
+it helps us be more productive,
+
+00:16:58.040 --> 00:16:58.540
+it's fun but we're using it for a certain end
+
+00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:01.080
+and you know if we how we can understand to
+
+00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:03.280
+get to those ends and what those ends might
+
+00:17:05.740 --> 00:17:06.240
+even be. It's just great to see other people
+
+00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:07.940
+bring that forth for you.
+
+00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:12.619
+[Speaker 1]: Okay, great. Well, I don't see any more
+
+00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:14.480
+questions in the chat currently,
+
+00:17:17.020 --> 00:17:17.160
+and I don't see anyone who's joined us on the
+
+00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:19.760
+blue button. We are near the time that I said
+
+00:17:22.420 --> 00:17:22.920
+we've got about 40 seconds to go until we
+
+00:17:24.060 --> 00:17:24.400
+were due to end. Jacob,
+
+00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:26.240
+I kind of want to give you the microphone for
+
+00:17:27.339 --> 00:17:27.500
+the end. Do you have anything to say?
+
+00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:28.680
+Like you've talked about your YouTube
+
+00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:30.720
+channel, we've already ensured that the links
+
+00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:32.360
+will be everywhere on the talk page,
+
+00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:34.640
+in the pad, on IRC. But is there anything
+
+00:17:35.540 --> 00:17:35.740
+else you'd like to add?
+
+00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:37.620
+Because you're the last speaker of EmacsCon,
+
+00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:40.140
+and you've got the tough responsibility of
+
+00:17:42.040 --> 00:17:42.540
+finishing it.
+
+00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:45.920
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, well, that's not tough at all when we've
+
+00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:47.960
+had 2 days. I mean, so many people,
+
+00:17:51.300 --> 00:17:51.440
+so many presenters coming together and like I
+
+00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:53.140
+said right at the beginning to Leo,
+
+00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:55.200
+putting your face out there,
+
+00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:56.680
+putting your voice out there,
+
+00:17:57.620 --> 00:17:58.120
+putting yourself out there,
+
+00:18:00.060 --> 00:18:00.380
+it's such a great way to come together
+
+00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:02.580
+because Emacs is not the standard.
+
+00:18:04.540 --> 00:18:04.820
+You know, I've tried to teach my friends
+
+00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:06.540
+Emacs, I've tried to show it to them.
+
+00:18:08.360 --> 00:18:08.480
+You know, some people you get it or you
+
+00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:10.600
+don't. And the people who get it,
+
+00:18:11.740 --> 00:18:12.240
+we're not all in the same place.
+
+00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:13.940
+And it's great.
+
+00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:15.860
+[Speaker 1]: I'm interrupting you for a second because I
+
+00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:18.460
+think we were supposed to kill the the cron
+
+00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:20.720
+which starts the next meeting and it hasn't.
+
+00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:22.940
+Let me try to fix it. I'll talk to production
+
+00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:25.860
+[Speaker 0]: Do I wait or keep going?
+
+00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:27.560
+[Speaker 1]: in a second. Just wait a bit.
+
+00:18:29.260 --> 00:18:29.440
+I'm very sorry. I've given you the mic and
+
+00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:35.440
+then it just... Okay let me just check your
+
+00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:35.940
+production.
+
+00:18:59.660 --> 00:18:59.720
+What? All right, Jason.
+
+00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:01.120
+All right, Jacob, I'm going to put us
+
+00:19:02.080 --> 00:19:02.320
+manually back on track.
+
+00:19:03.080 --> 00:19:03.580
+So give me just a second.
+
+00:19:04.220 --> 00:19:04.720
+[Speaker 0]: Right.
+
+00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:09.740
+[Speaker 1]: I'm going to manually type the URL,
+
+00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:12.720
+because it's a janky setup that we've got
+
+00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:14.440
+right now, when whenever it's not working.
+
+00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:20.900
+All right. So tps slash slash bbb emacs first
+
+00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:23.500
+dot org html. No, that's not the 1.
+
+00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:27.440
+Let me try to type it.
+
+00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:28.400
+Probably. Bbbemaxfirst.
+
+00:19:42.700 --> 00:19:43.180
+L5H, R5D, BH0 Okay, we're getting back Okay,
+
+00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:44.740
+sorry folks about this We are,
+
+00:19:45.360 --> 00:19:45.860
+Jacob, We're back online.
+
+00:19:46.800 --> 00:19:47.080
+I'm really sorry about this.
+
+00:19:49.040 --> 00:19:49.540
+It's just that Sasha's script kicked in.
+
+00:19:51.140 --> 00:19:51.280
+I did tell you we were supposed to finish at
+
+00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:54.060
+30. And because Sasha is busy presenting in
+
+00:19:54.940 --> 00:19:55.320
+the other room, sadly,
+
+00:19:57.100 --> 00:19:57.400
+we got yanked again. So Jacob,
+
+00:19:58.280 --> 00:19:58.780
+I'm very sorry for the interruption.
+
+00:20:01.220 --> 00:20:01.560
+And you were retelling people about something
+
+00:20:02.320 --> 00:20:02.820
+you told me during the check-ins.
+
+00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:04.940
+Do you mind restarting this?
+
+00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:09.660
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, sure. Well, you said I have the no
+
+00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:12.480
+small task of making the last words from
+
+00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:14.640
+presenters and not the organizers at
+
+00:20:16.260 --> 00:20:16.500
+EmacsConf. And I said,
+
+00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:18.380
+well, that's not hard at all.
+
+00:20:20.540 --> 00:20:20.760
+How many speakers have we had?
+
+00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:24.860
+30? And it's so incredible these past,
+
+00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:27.080
+you know, today and yesterday to have all
+
+00:20:29.700 --> 00:20:29.960
+been able to come together and not just share
+
+00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:34.420
+our ideas and our code and how we do things,
+
+00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:38.300
+but to share our faces and our voices and our
+
+00:20:39.780 --> 00:20:40.120
+lives, you know a little bit of our lives.
+
+00:20:42.100 --> 00:20:42.380
+You know to have the passion to even spend
+
+00:20:44.900 --> 00:20:45.400
+the time to on your weekend to watch this
+
+00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:47.660
+means that you have some sort of care about
+
+00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:49.660
+Emacs and it adds to your life.
+
+00:20:51.820 --> 00:20:52.080
+And you know those Emacs people aren't
+
+00:20:53.620 --> 00:20:53.980
+everywhere. I've tried to bring my friends
+
+00:20:56.040 --> 00:20:56.320
+onto Emacs and it seems like you know you're
+
+00:20:58.900 --> 00:20:59.220
+an Emacs person or you're not really an Emacs
+
+00:21:02.360 --> 00:21:02.640
+person. And those Emacs people can be really
+
+00:21:04.840 --> 00:21:05.000
+spread out. So it's great that we're able to
+
+00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:08.000
+come together and share a little bit of
+
+00:21:09.760 --> 00:21:10.260
+ourselves, a little bit of how we do things.
+
+00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:12.720
+And like I said in my talk,
+
+00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:15.880
+just increase our own joy in Emacs by coming
+
+00:21:19.360 --> 00:21:19.540
+together and being able to share our joy in
+
+00:21:21.760 --> 00:21:21.900
+Emacs. And of course, thank you to all the
+
+00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:25.120
+organizers and everyone who's contributed in
+
+00:21:27.980 --> 00:21:28.380
+any way. It means a lot to even the smallest
+
+00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:30.200
+member, the biggest member of our community.
+
+00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:33.700
+We're all really glad to be able to come
+
+00:21:36.300 --> 00:21:36.520
+together like this and share and meet each
+
+00:21:37.820 --> 00:21:38.320
+other and give nice talks.
+
+00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:40.440
+[Speaker 1]: Well, thank you so much,
+
+00:21:42.340 --> 00:21:42.780
+Jacob. And perhaps to reassure people,
+
+00:21:44.900 --> 00:21:45.060
+because yes, right now it feels like we are
+
+00:21:47.040 --> 00:21:47.300
+legions, all of us here in the same room
+
+00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:48.400
+watching the same thing.
+
+00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:50.900
+We are the Emacs' and that's a very good
+
+00:21:52.540 --> 00:21:52.840
+feeling to have. But you know,
+
+00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:55.140
+first, there's 1 thing that is certain,
+
+00:21:58.380 --> 00:21:58.660
+almost 99% certain, it's the fact that next
+
+00:22:00.300 --> 00:22:00.800
+year there'll probably be another EmacsConf
+
+00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:03.340
+and there will be more Emacs versions,
+
+00:22:04.540 --> 00:22:04.940
+there will be more augmented versions,
+
+00:22:07.300 --> 00:22:07.480
+there will be more people doing cool stuff on
+
+00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:12.040
+Melpa, on ELPA, etc. So it is still a vibrant
+
+00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:14.700
+community. But in case you're craving this
+
+00:22:17.260 --> 00:22:17.760
+little extra in-person stuff,
+
+00:22:20.280 --> 00:22:20.500
+Sash and myself, we are maintaining a list of
+
+00:22:21.560 --> 00:22:21.820
+all the Emacs user group.
+
+00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:23.080
+This is on the Emacs wiki.
+
+00:22:24.140 --> 00:22:24.440
+This is what I'm sharing on my screen
+
+00:22:27.500 --> 00:22:27.720
+currently. And we try to organize them by
+
+00:22:30.100 --> 00:22:30.340
+regional region, sorry,
+
+00:22:31.560 --> 00:22:32.020
+parts of the world like North America,
+
+00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:33.120
+South America, Europe,
+
+00:22:36.300 --> 00:22:36.680
+Africa, Asia. And we have a list of upcoming
+
+00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:39.500
+events and a lot of them are still online.
+
+00:22:41.420 --> 00:22:41.920
+Ever since we had the entire pandemic stuff,
+
+00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:47.440
+a lot of the workshops moved online and,
+
+00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:50.320
+sorry, I had someone whispering in my ear.
+
+00:22:53.100 --> 00:22:53.400
+A lot of them moved online and they are still
+
+00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:55.080
+online now because they've realized it's a
+
+00:22:57.100 --> 00:22:57.280
+very great way to get more people in the same
+
+00:22:59.640 --> 00:22:59.960
+place. And whilst it's great to have
+
+00:23:01.560 --> 00:23:01.920
+in-person meetings, We do this with Emacs
+
+00:23:05.140 --> 00:23:05.340
+Paris. Emacs Paris actually is happening is
+
+00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:07.840
+it? I think, oh I'm going to need to tell
+
+00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:10.280
+Sasha that apparently yes we do not have the
+
+00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:12.600
+next event for Emacs Paris which is next
+
+00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:15.140
+Tuesday and it is in person but for everyone
+
+00:23:18.580 --> 00:23:18.740
+and including you Jacob if you find a
+
+00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:20.640
+workshop in North America that is working for
+
+00:23:22.540 --> 00:23:23.020
+you, I'm thinking about Emacs SF,
+
+00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:24.940
+which I've attended multiple times,
+
+00:23:27.980 --> 00:23:28.220
+and Emacs Austin as well,
+
+00:23:29.060 --> 00:23:29.340
+that I've been to once,
+
+00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:31.780
+I think, It would be a lovely experience and
+
+00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:34.540
+a way to, most of them are every month,
+
+00:23:36.040 --> 00:23:36.160
+it would be a good way for you to stay in
+
+00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:39.440
+touch and to continue this sense of
+
+00:23:40.580 --> 00:23:41.080
+in-person-ness about Emacs.
+
+00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:46.800
+[Speaker 0]: Wonderful. All right, thank you so much.
+
+00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:49.400
+Should I drop off of our call now and let you
+
+00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:50.500
+close things up?
+
+00:23:52.600 --> 00:23:52.760
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, we're probably gonna close thing up.
+
+00:23:53.600 --> 00:23:53.940
+Let me just check on Sasha.
+
+00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:55.560
+Sasha is obviously answering many many
+
+00:23:57.180 --> 00:23:57.660
+questions about how we are organizing
+
+00:23:59.540 --> 00:23:59.640
+EmacsConf. So Jacob, I'm gonna let you go.
+
+00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:01.680
+Thank you so much for your presentation and
+
+00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:03.920
+your answers. And maybe we'll see you next
+
+00:24:05.020 --> 00:24:05.240
+year. Or maybe a workshop.
+
+00:24:06.820 --> 00:24:07.320
+[Speaker 0]: Who knows? I'm so lucky I got you as my Q&A.
+
+00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:10.760
+When I saw you at my first Emacs Conf 2 years
+
+00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:13.240
+ago, I thought, maybe this guy will do mine.
+
+00:24:18.840 --> 00:24:19.240
+[Speaker 1]: Very nice. Thank you. I'm glad I was able to
+
+00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.280
+generate such a feeling.
+
+00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:22.100
+All right, I'll get going now.
+
+00:24:23.260 --> 00:24:23.760
+Jacob, have a wonderful evening.
+
+00:24:23.940 --> 00:24:24.140
+[Speaker 0]: And here you are. You too,
+
+00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:24.900
+see you later.
+
+00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:28.320
+[Speaker 1]: Bye-bye. And folks, what are we going to do
+
+00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:30.520
+right now? I'm going to set everything up so
+
+00:24:32.520 --> 00:24:33.020
+that we can get Sasha finished on the talk.
+
+00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:35.060
+If you're watching, squinting with both
+
+00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:38.080
+streams, you can go to Sasha's room,
+
+00:24:39.520 --> 00:24:40.020
+I mean, the development track,
+
+00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:42.680
+to maybe catch some of the answers by Sasha.
+
+00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:45.160
+Otherwise, we'll be back in roughly 5 to 10
+
+00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:47.120
+minutes to do the closing remarks on this
+
+00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:48.040
+channel. In the meantime,
+
+00:24:48.840 --> 00:24:49.340
+I'll put on some music.
+
+00:24:51.300 --> 00:24:51.800
+So bear with us and I'll see you shortly.
+
+00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:16.160
+And closing here. This BBB recording.
+
+00:25:16.360 --> 00:25:16.860
+Yay!
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-solo--how-i-play-ttrpgs-in-emacs--howard-abrams--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-solo--how-i-play-ttrpgs-in-emacs--howard-abrams--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..edf50d33
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-solo--how-i-play-ttrpgs-in-emacs--howard-abrams--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1304 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:02.899 --> 00:00:03.260
+[Speaker 0]: Right. Okay, so hi everyone.
+
+00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:04.839
+We are now live. Hi Howard,
+
+00:00:06.339 --> 00:00:06.839
+how are you doing? Great.
+
+00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:10.460
+Lovely to hear. As usual,
+
+00:00:11.980 --> 00:00:12.480
+it's always a pleasure to see your
+
+00:00:14.440 --> 00:00:14.599
+presentation and the amount of time and
+
+00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:15.780
+energy you put into it.
+
+00:00:17.680 --> 00:00:17.860
+Slightly sorry about the shoppiness of the
+
+00:00:18.680 --> 00:00:19.119
+broadcast. Do not worry,
+
+00:00:22.700 --> 00:00:23.200
+the talk will be in its full 30 fps quality
+
+00:00:24.779 --> 00:00:25.160
+on the website after the conference.
+
+00:00:26.759 --> 00:00:26.939
+Actually, right now. It's available right
+
+00:00:30.099 --> 00:00:30.279
+now. As usual, feel free to ask your
+
+00:00:31.560 --> 00:00:31.920
+questions in the in the pad.
+
+00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:34.360
+We've linked it both on the talk page and on
+
+00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:38.760
+IRC. I think I am on the right 1,
+
+00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:40.580
+right? This is a solo.
+
+00:00:42.660 --> 00:00:43.160
+Guys, questions, where are they?
+
+00:00:45.060 --> 00:00:45.300
+Oh, we do have questions,
+
+00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:47.240
+it's just that they're not in the right part.
+
+00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:48.340
+Okay, so I'm going to start,
+
+00:00:49.739 --> 00:00:49.920
+I'm going to read the questions to Howard and
+
+00:00:50.860 --> 00:00:51.260
+Howard will be answering them.
+
+00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:53.220
+And if you are interested in asking questions
+
+00:00:54.620 --> 00:00:54.860
+directly to Howard, I see a lot of people
+
+00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:56.140
+have joined us on BBB,
+
+00:00:58.540 --> 00:00:58.780
+so we'll first go through the questions on
+
+00:01:00.800 --> 00:01:01.020
+the pad and then we'll move on to the people
+
+00:01:03.340 --> 00:01:03.560
+on BBB. So Howard, starting with the first
+
+00:01:06.300 --> 00:01:06.460
+question, does table data allow for
+
+00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:08.800
+recursion, e.g. The result that returns they
+
+00:01:10.600 --> 00:01:10.940
+are random monster haunting the cavern
+
+00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:14.280
+entrance and we roll on random monster and
+
+00:01:16.420 --> 00:01:16.700
+inject them, inject into the result?
+
+00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:18.420
+Sorry a little bit of a complicated question.
+
+00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:22.200
+Do you want me to read it again,
+
+00:01:23.620 --> 00:01:24.120
+perhaps? Yeah, I think so.
+
+00:01:25.240 --> 00:01:25.740
+I didn't quite catch that.
+
+00:01:28.860 --> 00:01:29.060
+Okay, so does the table data allow for
+
+00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:30.550
+recursion? So I think...
+
+00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:31.880
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
+
+00:01:33.960 --> 00:01:34.240
+No, it does. I put a little,
+
+00:01:35.440 --> 00:01:35.940
+you know, there's some code that could,
+
+00:01:38.660 --> 00:01:38.940
+so you could, yeah, you get a random value
+
+00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:41.380
+that gets inserted and that random value
+
+00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:43.580
+could refer to another table and it can keep
+
+00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:46.500
+on going. I have not pushed that that hard
+
+00:01:48.320 --> 00:01:48.820
+because obviously it's,
+
+00:01:50.880 --> 00:01:50.980
+it might be a little on the heavyweight side.
+
+00:01:52.540 --> 00:01:52.760
+I can't imagine it to go too deep,
+
+00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:53.260
+though.
+
+00:01:56.820 --> 00:01:56.979
+[Speaker 0]: I'm pretty sure Emacs would be complaining if
+
+00:01:57.940 --> 00:01:58.320
+you go a little too deep.
+
+00:01:59.979 --> 00:02:00.479
+We have something as Mike's list recursion,
+
+00:02:01.420 --> 00:02:01.840
+and stuff like this. So don't worry.
+
+00:02:03.440 --> 00:02:03.940
+Go willy nilly with your recursions.
+
+00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:07.240
+We've got comments about the fact that it's a
+
+00:02:09.180 --> 00:02:09.680
+really cool project and I feel like everyone
+
+00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:11.180
+watching would be agreeing.
+
+00:02:14.100 --> 00:02:14.340
+You've got a question about where you can get
+
+00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:16.780
+this. Do you have a github repository with
+
+00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:17.580
+all of this?
+
+00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:20.600
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, and at the well at the end of the
+
+00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:22.960
+presentation I kind of display that and I
+
+00:02:25.920 --> 00:02:26.420
+think I put it at the top of the the pad
+
+00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:35.720
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, there's a
+
+00:02:36.760 --> 00:02:37.260
+[Speaker 0]: Yes. I don't go Gone please.
+
+00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:38.820
+[Speaker 1]: Nothing there. There's a lot of stuff that
+
+00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:40.580
+needs to be reformatted.
+
+00:02:46.820 --> 00:02:46.940
+This is all Aflacode, so obviously it's a
+
+00:02:49.180 --> 00:02:49.480
+personal hack. So people should just steal
+
+00:02:51.880 --> 00:02:52.160
+the code as opposed to looking at a real
+
+00:02:52.760 --> 00:02:53.260
+project to use.
+
+00:03:00.420 --> 00:03:00.660
+[Speaker 0]: Right, lovely. So this game plus CRDT should
+
+00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:02.460
+be great for non-solid plays.
+
+00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:04.140
+Are you familiar with CRDT?
+
+00:03:08.160 --> 00:03:08.360
+[Speaker 1]: Well, so I used to use Flubits once upon a
+
+00:03:11.880 --> 00:03:12.160
+time and after seeing the previous talk on
+
+00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:14.340
+CRDT it's like, oh, I like that,
+
+00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:16.500
+and yes, I think that would be a fun idea.
+
+00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:20.080
+[Speaker 0]: I think I remember, so I did something much
+
+00:03:21.040 --> 00:03:21.300
+more humble than you did.
+
+00:03:24.660 --> 00:03:24.960
+I did a little bit, a little package in Org
+
+00:03:27.940 --> 00:03:28.080
+Mode for rolling dice and you had like a
+
+00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:31.780
+little formula like you could write 60 20 and
+
+00:03:34.740 --> 00:03:35.240
+it would throw 6 dice with 20 faces,
+
+00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:39.560
+60 sorry, 6 die, Frenchmen here in the room,
+
+00:03:43.660 --> 00:03:43.980
+20 faces and it would average them out or
+
+00:03:45.140 --> 00:03:45.640
+provide you any kind of stats needed.
+
+00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:49.020
+And this type of stuff works really well over
+
+00:03:52.540 --> 00:03:53.040
+CRDT because it's 1 edit inside of a file.
+
+00:03:55.900 --> 00:03:56.320
+If you start making edits in different parts
+
+00:03:58.780 --> 00:03:59.040
+of your file, it starts becoming a little
+
+00:04:02.060 --> 00:04:02.260
+more complicated because CRDT struggles when
+
+00:04:04.480 --> 00:04:04.640
+you're making many discrete changes inside of
+
+00:04:05.640 --> 00:04:06.140
+the same file. Does that make sense?
+
+00:04:07.640 --> 00:04:08.140
+[Speaker 1]: It does, it does. Interesting.
+
+00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:10.280
+Okay, yeah, no, I have not played with it
+
+00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:10.780
+yet.
+
+00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:14.540
+[Speaker 0]: Well, feel free to play with it and if you've
+
+00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:16.820
+got any kind of... If it works,
+
+00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:18.120
+it works and it's amazing,
+
+00:04:20.200 --> 00:04:20.380
+but if it doesn't, feel free to send us
+
+00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:21.680
+messages because Shantan,
+
+00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:23.740
+who's the maintainer of CRDT,
+
+00:04:25.840 --> 00:04:26.000
+we've been looking into options to make it a
+
+00:04:28.380 --> 00:04:28.880
+little more resilient and work elsewhere for
+
+00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:31.860
+securely. Excellent. All right,
+
+00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:35.080
+Great. I'm going back to the previous
+
+00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:37.500
+question. So does the current version also
+
+00:04:39.020 --> 00:04:39.520
+have some utilities for doing multiplayer,
+
+00:04:41.140 --> 00:04:41.640
+like either physically or digitally,
+
+00:04:42.520 --> 00:04:43.020
+like we've done with CRUT?
+
+00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:45.300
+The question is because you mentioned you
+
+00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:47.860
+previously did multiplayer session as well?
+
+00:04:51.180 --> 00:04:51.680
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I mean, I was using the table,
+
+00:04:55.940 --> 00:04:56.060
+the random table at a random entry kind of
+
+00:04:58.460 --> 00:04:58.960
+thing. I was using that at my table.
+
+00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:01.280
+So, I'm an eternal DM.
+
+00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:03.420
+So I would always use that.
+
+00:05:05.020 --> 00:05:05.220
+Like somebody says, what's the name of that
+
+00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:07.400
+shopkeep? And I could just hit a key,
+
+00:05:08.440 --> 00:05:08.660
+and it'd come up with the name,
+
+00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:10.620
+and I'd just read it off.
+
+00:05:14.440 --> 00:05:14.940
+But it was still me generating it.
+
+00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:17.540
+So it wasn't something that people would see
+
+00:05:19.540 --> 00:05:19.640
+necessarily, but I would keep notes in it and
+
+00:05:20.520 --> 00:05:21.020
+then publish those notes.
+
+00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:24.620
+But yes, I don't know.
+
+00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:25.940
+This sounds all kind of,
+
+00:05:27.260 --> 00:05:27.760
+this sounds all intriguing.
+
+00:05:28.840 --> 00:05:29.340
+I think this would be fun.
+
+00:05:32.220 --> 00:05:32.720
+I think I need to get a group of like-minded
+
+00:05:35.880 --> 00:05:36.380
+Emacs people who want to play online.
+
+00:05:39.860 --> 00:05:40.120
+[Speaker 0]: I'm sure you've got plenty of people not only
+
+00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:42.080
+watching but also here in BBB.
+
+00:05:44.660 --> 00:05:44.800
+So we only have about 14 minutes until we go
+
+00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:46.360
+to the next talk and it might be a little
+
+00:05:48.200 --> 00:05:48.700
+short for a campaign, but we might just...
+
+00:05:53.220 --> 00:05:53.720
+Moving on to the next question,
+
+00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:56.920
+how does 1 become super awesome like Howard
+
+00:05:58.200 --> 00:05:58.620
+Abrams? And I very much agree.
+
+00:05:58.700 --> 00:05:59.140
+[Speaker 1]: Sure, yes. That's kind,
+
+00:06:04.460 --> 00:06:04.600
+[Speaker 0]: That's not a secret, You're not giving your
+
+00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:09.800
+[Speaker 1]: too kind, too kind. There's no trade secrets.
+
+00:06:10.580 --> 00:06:11.080
+Just follow your passions.
+
+00:06:14.540 --> 00:06:15.040
+[Speaker 0]: trade secrets. I can only conquer.
+
+00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:16.660
+All right, moving on to the next question.
+
+00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:19.200
+Please talk a little about how you produced
+
+00:06:20.460 --> 00:06:20.960
+such a slick presentation video.
+
+00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:23.300
+Everything looked completely professional,
+
+00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:25.620
+and I'd agree. So tell us more.
+
+00:06:29.260 --> 00:06:29.760
+[Speaker 1]: OK, so as you've seen my previous
+
+00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:33.180
+presentations, It's all just Emacs screen.
+
+00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:36.060
+I just felt like, oh, what I really want to
+
+00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:39.560
+talk about is how much fun I'm having and the
+
+00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:43.840
+little introduction. So my son actually is a
+
+00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:45.240
+YouTuber. So I asked him,
+
+00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:47.360
+and it's like, oh, I'll take care of your
+
+00:06:49.940 --> 00:06:50.440
+dad. And so he's the 1 that kind of prompted
+
+00:06:51.280 --> 00:06:51.780
+me. So I had a director.
+
+00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:54.220
+Don't know if that translates,
+
+00:06:58.940 --> 00:06:59.340
+[Speaker 0]: I mean, that translates amazingly.
+
+00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:03.060
+[Speaker 1]: though, but. Very good.
+
+00:07:06.900 --> 00:07:07.400
+You know, very over the top.
+
+00:07:09.440 --> 00:07:09.940
+I've never done something like this before.
+
+00:07:10.460 --> 00:07:10.600
+[Speaker 0]: I mean, the results at the end is No,
+
+00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:12.040
+but it fits you so well.
+
+00:07:14.820 --> 00:07:14.980
+I think this over the top-ness combined with
+
+00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:16.300
+the editing, it just...
+
+00:07:18.900 --> 00:07:19.200
+[Speaker 1]: I might have to keep doing it because it was
+
+00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:21.100
+fun. It was fun to do.
+
+00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:23.300
+[Speaker 0]: You've set a standard that you'll need to
+
+00:07:24.520 --> 00:07:24.860
+meet for following Emax.
+
+00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:28.860
+[Speaker 1]: I'll have to keep paying them then.
+
+00:07:30.820 --> 00:07:31.320
+[Speaker 0]: Oh no! Alright, Yes! Alright,
+
+00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:32.860
+moving on to the next question.
+
+00:07:35.380 --> 00:07:35.540
+Does table data, no sorry that's the 1 we did
+
+00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:37.680
+on recursion and we're not going to struggle
+
+00:07:38.900 --> 00:07:39.400
+through the reading of it again.
+
+00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:41.780
+Alright so with your toolkits,
+
+00:07:43.940 --> 00:07:44.060
+a list of good books would be nice to be
+
+00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:45.800
+included, example D&D,
+
+00:07:48.400 --> 00:07:48.900
+space, steampunk, cyberpunk settings.
+
+00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:50.300
+Do you have such a plan?
+
+00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:56.360
+[Speaker 1]: 00I mean, I could definitely publish a
+
+00:07:59.640 --> 00:08:00.140
+bibliography of things I'm using and reading,
+
+00:08:03.640 --> 00:08:04.140
+But I don't know if I'd be writing anything.
+
+00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:07.640
+[Speaker 0]: Oh come on, don't tell yourself short.
+
+00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:09.140
+You've already proven you were amazing in
+
+00:08:10.640 --> 00:08:11.140
+very different, very varied topics.
+
+00:08:12.840 --> 00:08:13.340
+I'm sure you should give it 1 more try.
+
+00:08:15.460 --> 00:08:15.740
+[Speaker 1]: I don't know. I've got a sabbatical coming
+
+00:08:17.580 --> 00:08:17.840
+up. I'm toying with writing something,
+
+00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:20.360
+but I don't know if it'd ever leave the Emacs
+
+00:08:20.440 --> 00:08:20.940
+buffer.
+
+00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:24.180
+[Speaker 0]: All right, I like this.
+
+00:08:28.140 --> 00:08:28.260
+Next question. Hi Howard and thanks for an
+
+00:08:28.860 --> 00:08:29.360
+outstanding presentation.
+
+00:08:31.640 --> 00:08:31.800
+What did you use to create the graphics in
+
+00:08:34.280 --> 00:08:34.440
+your presentation? Didn't we cover this 1
+
+00:08:35.059 --> 00:08:35.380
+already? I can't remember.
+
+00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:35.860
+No, that was
+
+00:08:41.980 --> 00:08:42.240
+[Speaker 1]: a good 1. So the graphics actually were just
+
+00:08:43.179 --> 00:08:43.679
+kind of hacked together.
+
+00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:45.340
+But then I just gave them to my son.
+
+00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:47.520
+And it's like, can you put the graphic right
+
+00:08:50.140 --> 00:08:50.640
+here and he goes no problem there it is like
+
+00:08:56.280 --> 00:08:56.640
+[Speaker 0]: okay great so 1 more 1 more reason to keep
+
+00:08:57.060 --> 00:08:57.560
+paying your son
+
+00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:00.180
+[Speaker 1]: perfect yeah yeah exactly so if you can get
+
+00:09:02.760 --> 00:09:03.260
+get yourself a YouTuber who knows how to use
+
+00:09:05.800 --> 00:09:06.300
+all the tools. I think he was using DaVinci,
+
+00:09:08.860 --> 00:09:09.360
+but he's got quite a few going.
+
+00:09:12.700 --> 00:09:12.900
+[Speaker 0]: Right. Alright, moving on to the next
+
+00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:15.220
+question. Any plans to borrow tables from
+
+00:09:17.980 --> 00:09:18.240
+Dungeon World or Iron Sword Starforge and
+
+00:09:20.460 --> 00:09:20.960
+publish in a TK repository?
+
+00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:22.860
+Not sure what TK is.
+
+00:09:25.380 --> 00:09:25.880
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, yeah, okay. So yeah,
+
+00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:30.820
+so that would be fun and I'd love that.
+
+00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:34.340
+And I was just reading a way to render PDFs
+
+00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:38.480
+that you might own into Markdown format.
+
+00:09:39.140 --> 00:09:39.560
+And if it's in Markdown,
+
+00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:41.940
+it'd be easy to pull into Org Mode.
+
+00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:44.180
+So all of the Iron Sworn,
+
+00:09:45.280 --> 00:09:45.780
+that role-playing game,
+
+00:09:48.780 --> 00:09:49.280
+Since it's all under the Creative License,
+
+00:09:51.380 --> 00:09:51.600
+I think even the Star Forge is.
+
+00:09:53.940 --> 00:09:54.280
+So I think I could grab the Star Forge 1.
+
+00:09:56.820 --> 00:09:57.100
+I don't know about Dungeon World and their
+
+00:09:59.220 --> 00:09:59.380
+tables. But yeah, a lot of people are
+
+00:10:01.060 --> 00:10:01.500
+starting to publish those kind of tables.
+
+00:10:03.760 --> 00:10:04.180
+So yeah, that'd be fun.
+
+00:10:07.160 --> 00:10:07.400
+I'd like to render all those in text files
+
+00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:09.060
+that I could pull up like that.
+
+00:10:13.180 --> 00:10:13.580
+[Speaker 0]: Lovely. I think that's all for the questions
+
+00:10:15.820 --> 00:10:16.320
+we had in the pad. We still have 9 minutes.
+
+00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:18.760
+I see plenty of people have joined us,
+
+00:10:21.060 --> 00:10:21.560
+including 1 person with a microphone on BBB.
+
+00:10:23.160 --> 00:10:23.500
+PlasmaStrike, do you have a question?
+
+00:10:24.920 --> 00:10:25.180
+And would you like to unmute yourself and ask
+
+00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:28.940
+it? I'm also going to check the chat.
+
+00:10:31.640 --> 00:10:31.920
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah. StarsWithoutNumber is another great
+
+00:10:33.640 --> 00:10:34.140
+1 that's got some great tables in it.
+
+00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:37.960
+Sorry, I'm just looking at the questions that
+
+00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:39.440
+are popping up here, too.
+
+00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:43.180
+[Speaker 0]: Sure. So I don't see anyone unmuting
+
+00:10:44.540 --> 00:10:44.800
+themselves. I see people typing away
+
+00:10:45.220 --> 00:10:45.400
+questions. By the way,
+
+00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:46.560
+if you're going to type questions,
+
+00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:48.680
+perhaps do not put them on BBB,
+
+00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:50.600
+put them in the pad. It's a little easier for
+
+00:10:52.380 --> 00:10:52.880
+us to archive them afterwards.
+
+00:10:56.160 --> 00:10:56.580
+I'm going to give a little bit of time.
+
+00:10:58.360 --> 00:10:58.860
+I feel bad about going on break when I have
+
+00:11:00.940 --> 00:11:01.160
+you available and ready to answer more
+
+00:11:02.680 --> 00:11:03.180
+questions. Oh, you're too kind.
+
+00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:07.860
+[Speaker 2]: How have you, as this changed,
+
+00:11:09.520 --> 00:11:09.960
+how's your visualization of the books,
+
+00:11:11.260 --> 00:11:11.760
+or of your games at all?
+
+00:11:15.180 --> 00:11:15.680
+[Speaker 1]: Sorry, can you ask that 1 more time?
+
+00:11:16.700 --> 00:11:17.200
+I didn't catch the first part.
+
+00:11:20.140 --> 00:11:20.600
+[Speaker 2]: How has this impacted,
+
+00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:23.300
+like, your imagination on the scenes and
+
+00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:28.360
+stuff like that because it's partly open and
+
+00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:30.920
+closed because you had that chart where you
+
+00:11:32.880 --> 00:11:33.380
+had that where you put it in the center of
+
+00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:37.400
+constrained by algorithms to enhance your
+
+00:11:39.780 --> 00:11:40.020
+creativity, you write it but it's not all
+
+00:11:42.700 --> 00:11:42.900
+freeform to where you have writer's block as
+
+00:11:42.900 --> 00:11:43.400
+much.
+
+00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:47.080
+[Speaker 1]: You hit the, You hit it on the head.
+
+00:11:49.640 --> 00:11:50.040
+That's exactly it. That's why I've been doing
+
+00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:54.440
+this. Creativity is a hard thing to foster.
+
+00:11:57.520 --> 00:11:57.700
+And having little prompts that you have to
+
+00:11:58.340 --> 00:11:58.840
+kind of work together,
+
+00:12:03.660 --> 00:12:04.160
+like twisty language, what does that mean?
+
+00:12:06.560 --> 00:12:06.900
+Oh, you have to kind of work with that.
+
+00:12:08.800 --> 00:12:09.160
+So yeah, that's 1 of the reasons why I got
+
+00:12:11.800 --> 00:12:12.300
+into doing the solo version of it,
+
+00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:14.600
+just because you kind of,
+
+00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:16.480
+it does really foster the creativity.
+
+00:12:23.540 --> 00:12:24.040
+Did that answer the question?
+
+00:12:28.520 --> 00:12:28.780
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah well has it kind of has it improved over
+
+00:12:30.060 --> 00:12:30.280
+time though of using it like
+
+00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:33.700
+[Speaker 1]: oh yeah oh yeah I would definitely say so
+
+00:12:36.420 --> 00:12:36.920
+While I'm still not ready to publish my files
+
+00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:40.740
+at all, but the first ones were much worse.
+
+00:12:46.160 --> 00:12:46.320
+[Speaker 2]: That was an example like after you play for
+
+00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:48.080
+like 2 months or something like that,
+
+00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:50.440
+like, could you close your eyes and see the
+
+00:12:51.420 --> 00:12:51.920
+rooms a lot better versus...
+
+00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:55.220
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think so. I think so.
+
+00:13:02.150 --> 00:13:02.500
+And, you know, there's 1 solo game called A
+
+00:13:03.340 --> 00:13:03.840
+Thousand-Year-Old Vampire.
+
+00:13:05.740 --> 00:13:06.100
+I don't know if you've seen that 1 or not,
+
+00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:08.940
+but it's quite creative.
+
+00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:10.220
+It's very interesting.
+
+00:13:13.180 --> 00:13:13.680
+It's got a great setup to use.
+
+00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:17.320
+And When I was looking through it,
+
+00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:19.820
+it's like, I'm thinking of a typical vampire
+
+00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:21.220
+and this sort of thing.
+
+00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:26.040
+But then there's this YouTuber named Seth
+
+00:13:27.880 --> 00:13:28.180
+Skalkarski, if I can pronounce his name
+
+00:13:30.020 --> 00:13:30.060
+right. He was describing it.
+
+00:13:32.040 --> 00:13:32.540
+And he came up with a completely different
+
+00:13:34.540 --> 00:13:34.940
+vampire scene. And it's like,
+
+00:13:37.560 --> 00:13:37.880
+oh, I could see how people can kind of start
+
+00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:41.000
+working on these things and really see things
+
+00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:43.260
+differently. And the creativity and all that
+
+00:13:44.340 --> 00:13:44.840
+sort of stuff just really blossoms.
+
+00:13:48.040 --> 00:13:48.540
+[Speaker 2]: And then I guess as an extension of that,
+
+00:13:53.680 --> 00:13:53.920
+how has the stories changed after using this
+
+00:13:58.140 --> 00:13:58.640
+toolkit or the solo games for 2 months?
+
+00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:00.700
+Like the scenes, like how you,
+
+00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:02.940
+like the stories that you'd start generating?
+
+00:14:05.980 --> 00:14:06.460
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,
+
+00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:09.200
+I mean, a lot depends on just how much you're
+
+00:14:10.140 --> 00:14:10.440
+willing to put into it.
+
+00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:14.340
+But yeah, I've definitely had a lot of fun.
+
+00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:16.760
+And it's just been a lot more enjoyable and
+
+00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:18.180
+just more interesting.
+
+00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:22.120
+[Speaker 2]: Well I mean like has the types and quality of
+
+00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:24.440
+the stories changed a lot?
+
+00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:25.740
+Or more than that?
+
+00:14:30.280 --> 00:14:30.620
+[Speaker 1]: I think so, you know, but obviously the proof
+
+00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:34.500
+is if somebody else is doing the evaluation
+
+00:14:39.060 --> 00:14:39.280
+and I'm not letting that out But I think so,
+
+00:14:42.040 --> 00:14:42.500
+but I think so so but I think your mileage
+
+00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:44.840
+may vary. So yeah, try it out
+
+00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:47.860
+[Speaker 2]: Have you seen the game Dwarf Fortress?
+
+00:14:50.880 --> 00:14:51.140
+Because it's supposed to be a video game
+
+00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:53.260
+that's in a similar spirit to that,
+
+00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:55.580
+where it helps you generate stories.
+
+00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:57.320
+Dwarf Fortress, RimWorld,
+
+00:15:00.420 --> 00:15:00.920
+Kenshi is another 1.
+
+00:15:03.400 --> 00:15:03.720
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, no, I've looked at the Dwarf Fortress,
+
+00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:04.900
+but I haven't played it.
+
+00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:08.480
+But that 1 seems a little bit more
+
+00:15:10.640 --> 00:15:10.920
+structured, but still could be a lot of fun
+
+00:15:13.700 --> 00:15:13.860
+too. And then others, it's like,
+
+00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:15.260
+how far do you want to take it?
+
+00:15:18.280 --> 00:15:18.780
+Like I just picked up this 1 called Broken
+
+00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:21.980
+Cask. There it is, where you generate a
+
+00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:25.640
+little bar tavern, and then you start rolling
+
+00:15:29.180 --> 00:15:29.540
+events. Now, it gives a lot more stuff coming
+
+00:15:30.780 --> 00:15:31.060
+out of it. It's like, oh,
+
+00:15:32.700 --> 00:15:32.980
+this person's showing up and this is what's
+
+00:15:34.700 --> 00:15:34.840
+happening, but you can elaborate on it as
+
+00:15:36.660 --> 00:15:36.880
+much as you want. And that's what I'm
+
+00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:39.840
+thinking I might do. Hi,
+
+00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:41.100
+Mike, you got a question?
+
+00:15:47.680 --> 00:15:48.180
+[Speaker 3]: Hi, Howard. Yeah, I do have a question.
+
+00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:51.440
+I'm a big fan of your work on literate DevOps
+
+00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:53.620
+and your essay and video on that topic.
+
+00:15:56.040 --> 00:15:56.260
+I'm just wondering if you still use that
+
+00:15:59.640 --> 00:15:59.820
+workflow at work and have you changed how
+
+00:16:02.160 --> 00:16:02.420
+that process works or has it evolved over
+
+00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:05.220
+time since that video and essay were written?
+
+00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:07.340
+[Speaker 1]: That's a good question.
+
+00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:12.600
+Yes, I still do it. It varies depending on
+
+00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:14.000
+the project and whatnot.
+
+00:16:16.400 --> 00:16:16.900
+But I still am using it.
+
+00:16:20.280 --> 00:16:20.520
+Yeah, yeah. In fact, I'm doing it with a lot
+
+00:16:22.760 --> 00:16:23.260
+of other things. Like all my configuration
+
+00:16:27.660 --> 00:16:28.160
+files are all in a literate style for Emacs.
+
+00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:31.660
+And even all the code that's in Ironsworn,
+
+00:16:35.060 --> 00:16:35.560
+the repo, if you go to the repo,
+
+00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:37.640
+it's the readme file. And yeah,
+
+00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:40.140
+that's just being rendered out to the Emacs
+
+00:16:41.660 --> 00:16:42.160
+file. So it is still all literate.
+
+00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:43.940
+[Speaker 3]: Very cool.
+
+00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:46.780
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, because I don't know.
+
+00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:48.620
+Some things are just a little too complicated
+
+00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:49.820
+to just type up.
+
+00:16:56.040 --> 00:16:56.200
+[Speaker 0]: All right, sorry to be the bearer of bad
+
+00:16:58.220 --> 00:16:58.720
+news, but we have only about 3 more minutes
+
+00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.060
+of lifetime. By the way,
+
+00:17:02.920 --> 00:17:03.120
+feel free to stay and discuss any of the
+
+00:17:07.540 --> 00:17:08.040
+topic of today's session after we go off air
+
+00:17:10.579 --> 00:17:10.859
+and we'll be able to keep all of the nice
+
+00:17:12.260 --> 00:17:12.540
+discussion and put them on the talks page
+
+00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:17.060
+afterwards. Great. Howard,
+
+00:17:20.020 --> 00:17:20.280
+I would like to ask you if you have any last
+
+00:17:21.760 --> 00:17:21.900
+words regarding the presentation or the
+
+00:17:23.040 --> 00:17:23.540
+questions you've had. Well,
+
+00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:25.020
+the last question we had,
+
+00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:27.720
+actually, we had Mike come and ask it live.
+
+00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:29.720
+But do you have any parting words before we
+
+00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:32.220
+leave you? Okay.
+
+00:17:37.560 --> 00:17:38.000
+[Speaker 1]: I think the last thing is go and hack
+
+00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:41.720
+something. I mean, this Lisp stuff is a lot
+
+00:17:43.860 --> 00:17:44.360
+of fun. And I hope that came across.
+
+00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:47.420
+It's like, the project I made is just a
+
+00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:50.720
+personal thing and it was fun for me to make,
+
+00:17:53.100 --> 00:17:53.400
+but everybody's probably got some fun thing
+
+00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:54.820
+they could make as well.
+
+00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:56.700
+And just, I don't know,
+
+00:17:58.460 --> 00:17:58.960
+hack it yourself because all the,
+
+00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:02.420
+you know, think about adding multi-threading
+
+00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:04.740
+to Emacs. Maybe we don't want that,
+
+00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:06.360
+because that'll just complicate things.
+
+00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:08.700
+This is your own personal hacking sandbox,
+
+00:18:09.520 --> 00:18:10.020
+so go have fun.
+
+00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:14.380
+[Speaker 0]: Great. I was just going to say we were
+
+00:18:15.060 --> 00:18:15.560
+talking about Dwarf Fortress.
+
+00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:19.180
+In Dwarf Fortress, it's a very CPU intensive
+
+00:18:21.020 --> 00:18:21.240
+game because it needs to compute every single
+
+00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:23.860
+thing in the world and there's such a thing
+
+00:18:27.700 --> 00:18:27.780
+as the CPU death of the world where basically
+
+00:18:29.340 --> 00:18:29.500
+you've got too many cats that are just
+
+00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:31.440
+breeding constantly with 1 another and it
+
+00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:34.000
+creates so many entities that it just
+
+00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:36.940
+crashes, and the time it takes for the day to
+
+00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:38.940
+finish it, it just never finish.
+
+00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:41.180
+So I was going to say maybe multi-threading
+
+00:18:43.180 --> 00:18:43.660
+might be useful in this case for Emacs.
+
+00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:46.600
+So, wanting to foray into the future.
+
+00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.300
+[Speaker 1]: All right. Thank you.
+
+00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:51.180
+[Speaker 0]: And thank you so much,
+
+00:18:52.360 --> 00:18:52.540
+Howard, and thank you Plasma Strike for your
+
+00:18:53.320 --> 00:18:53.560
+question, as well as Mike,
+
+00:18:55.760 --> 00:18:55.900
+who joined us. We're going to go live with
+
+00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:57.940
+the next talk in about 1 minute,
+
+00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:00.580
+and until then, well, I'm not going to put
+
+00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:02.400
+music, You can wait 50 seconds without music,
+
+00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:04.460
+you Zoomers. We'll be back in a bit.
+
+00:19:05.280 --> 00:19:05.780
+[Speaker 2]: Bye-bye.
+
+00:19:09.620 --> 00:19:09.860
+[Speaker 0]: Bye, Howard. All right,
+
+00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:11.280
+we are off. Thank you so much,
+
+00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:12.480
+Howard. I need to dash.
+
+00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:14.440
+And oh, I think he's already gone.
+
+00:19:16.360 --> 00:19:16.860
+So Bye everyone, I'll see you later.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..494ee690
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-teaching--teaching-computer-and-data-science-with-literate-programming-tools--marcus-birkenkrahe--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,2650 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:03.639 --> 00:00:04.140
+[Speaker 0]: Again, second only live Q&A of the day.
+
+00:00:05.980 --> 00:00:06.339
+So, things are still a bit rusty,
+
+00:00:07.859 --> 00:00:08.360
+but believe me, by the end of the morning,
+
+00:00:11.719 --> 00:00:12.219
+we will be well-oiled machinery.
+
+00:00:13.440 --> 00:00:13.940
+So, hi Marcus, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:15.860
+[Speaker 1]: I'm fine, Thank you.
+
+00:00:19.900 --> 00:00:20.020
+[Speaker 0]: I really liked, most people might have
+
+00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:22.180
+forgotten, but you started your presentation
+
+00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:26.340
+with the, in a very dark room and with this
+
+00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:29.340
+typical note of dry German humor that I
+
+00:00:30.400 --> 00:00:30.900
+particularly liked.
+
+00:00:33.900 --> 00:00:34.280
+[Speaker 1]: Whereas I told you we're born without humour
+
+00:00:38.040 --> 00:00:38.300
+so any sense of humour is the result of very
+
+00:00:38.559 --> 00:00:39.059
+hard work.
+
+00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:44.280
+[Speaker 0]: Well I can confirm therefore that your work
+
+00:00:46.100 --> 00:00:46.600
+is evident in this particular remark.
+
+00:00:50.379 --> 00:00:50.879
+So as we did before and perhaps this time
+
+00:00:53.940 --> 00:00:54.320
+more punctiliously, terrible adverb,
+
+00:00:57.660 --> 00:00:58.100
+that's why I'm an English major we will be
+
+00:01:00.220 --> 00:01:00.420
+taking questions first from the pad and then
+
+00:01:03.420 --> 00:01:03.740
+we'll be moving on to people in the BBV room.
+
+00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:05.540
+Let me just check if we have some people.
+
+00:01:06.220 --> 00:01:06.720
+We do have some people.
+
+00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:08.860
+All right, so Markus, I'm gonna ask you the
+
+00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:11.200
+questions in the pad unless you have
+
+00:01:12.100 --> 00:01:12.600
+something to remark first.
+
+00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:15.060
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, oh no, no, I don't have nothing to
+
+00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:17.800
+remark. I mean, only that we're coming to the
+
+00:01:19.940 --> 00:01:20.200
+end of the term here, and I think in the
+
+00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:24.140
+paper that I wrote, I expressed doubt that
+
+00:01:25.080 --> 00:01:25.560
+Emacs was good for beginners,
+
+00:01:31.220 --> 00:01:31.720
+but I've now gone back to an interactive
+
+00:01:33.520 --> 00:01:34.020
+notebook in the class without Emacs,
+
+00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:37.500
+and I've just missed it terribly the whole
+
+00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:39.220
+term. And I think I saw you walk too,
+
+00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:40.540
+so that's kind of interesting.
+
+00:01:41.660 --> 00:01:42.160
+That's it.
+
+00:01:43.320 --> 00:01:43.580
+[Speaker 0]: Right. All right, well,
+
+00:01:44.860 --> 00:01:45.040
+let's get started with the questions because
+
+00:01:47.440 --> 00:01:47.940
+I'm a little worried that we might acquire
+
+00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:50.580
+debt because of the time that we have.
+
+00:01:52.900 --> 00:01:53.040
+And just to be clear, so that you also know
+
+00:01:54.360 --> 00:01:54.479
+the time at which we're supposed to be
+
+00:01:56.979 --> 00:01:57.240
+finishing, the next talk here on this track
+
+00:01:59.060 --> 00:01:59.560
+is supposed to be at 10.40,
+
+00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:01.740
+which is in 13 minutes from now.
+
+00:02:02.720 --> 00:02:03.220
+All right, with that said,
+
+00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:04.500
+starting with the first questions.
+
+00:02:06.820 --> 00:02:07.300
+What tools do you use for making your slides?
+
+00:02:08.940 --> 00:02:09.440
+They are very nice and I concur.
+
+00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:18.180
+OrgReveal?
+
+00:02:22.100 --> 00:02:22.600
+[Speaker 1]: I use OrgReveal. It's a package,
+
+00:02:26.100 --> 00:02:26.380
+OrgReveal. I don't have the link right now,
+
+00:02:31.160 --> 00:02:31.560
+but it's an org mode package where You create
+
+00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:35.400
+some meta information and I think it's
+
+00:02:39.660 --> 00:02:39.900
+basically JavaScript, JavaScript package that
+
+00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:41.620
+will work from a bunch of different
+
+00:02:49.300 --> 00:02:49.540
+platforms, but it works particularly well
+
+00:02:51.620 --> 00:02:52.120
+from Emacs. So you use that a lot.
+
+00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:55.440
+[Speaker 0]: Right, yeah, I think it is definitely
+
+00:02:56.720 --> 00:02:57.120
+interacting with JavaScript in the background
+
+00:02:58.620 --> 00:02:59.120
+and it makes for a very clean presentation
+
+00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:01.380
+right from Emacs. I mean,
+
+00:03:04.180 --> 00:03:04.340
+it's not opened in Emacs unless you use a web
+
+00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:06.480
+browser in Emacs that supports such
+
+00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:09.400
+compositing but it's pretty convenient and I
+
+00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:10.780
+recommend looking into it.
+
+00:03:19.040 --> 00:03:19.540
+[Speaker 1]: I'm just going to share the URL here.
+
+00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:21.400
+So if anybody's interested.
+
+00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:24.140
+[Speaker 0]: Right, and we'll be putting all the links
+
+00:03:25.440 --> 00:03:25.600
+right now. So obviously right now,
+
+00:03:27.740 --> 00:03:28.180
+Marcus is writing inside of his own Emacs,
+
+00:03:28.940 --> 00:03:29.340
+but we also have the pad.
+
+00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:31.020
+We'll make sure that you have all the links
+
+00:03:32.020 --> 00:03:32.520
+accessible a little bit later.
+
+00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:34.340
+Okay, moving on to the next question,
+
+00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:35.360
+why MDPI?
+
+00:03:40.140 --> 00:03:40.520
+[Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, well that's a little bit of a longer
+
+00:03:42.100 --> 00:03:42.600
+answer, kind of boring I suppose.
+
+00:03:44.180 --> 00:03:44.680
+So when I came here to the US,
+
+00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:47.960
+I used to teach a lot of graduate courses and
+
+00:03:49.160 --> 00:03:49.280
+I had to suddenly teach a lot of
+
+00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:50.460
+undergraduate courses,
+
+00:03:52.940 --> 00:03:53.100
+which partly motivated this move because it
+
+00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:55.640
+made me realize, as I said in the
+
+00:03:57.660 --> 00:03:58.020
+presentation, how little the students
+
+00:03:59.280 --> 00:03:59.780
+understand of the underlying infrastructure
+
+00:04:01.760 --> 00:04:01.920
+and how important it is for them to work with
+
+00:04:05.940 --> 00:04:06.440
+an IDE that doesn't make coding especially
+
+00:04:09.020 --> 00:04:09.140
+convenient, but that teaches them a lot of
+
+00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:10.840
+the stuff on the side,
+
+00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:13.080
+you know, while still presenting a very
+
+00:04:16.880 --> 00:04:17.380
+smooth environment, which developers
+
+00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:22.120
+appreciate as well. So I came here and I used
+
+00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:24.520
+to publish like 4 or 5 research papers per
+
+00:04:25.640 --> 00:04:26.140
+year, but I didn't have the time.
+
+00:04:28.260 --> 00:04:28.760
+So I was contacted by MDPI.
+
+00:04:33.840 --> 00:04:34.340
+And it's 1 of those research paper mills,
+
+00:04:36.660 --> 00:04:37.160
+which seem to be springing up where authors
+
+00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:40.840
+can, really the institutions of the authors
+
+00:04:42.100 --> 00:04:42.560
+have to pay so that they can publish,
+
+00:04:43.940 --> 00:04:44.440
+right? So it's not really,
+
+00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:46.400
+and I checked them out and they seem to be
+
+00:04:47.260 --> 00:04:47.680
+proper peer review publishing,
+
+00:04:48.900 --> 00:04:49.120
+but to be absolutely sure I said,
+
+00:04:49.960 --> 00:04:50.460
+well, you can have my article,
+
+00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:52.540
+but of course for free,
+
+00:04:54.640 --> 00:04:55.080
+I'm not going to pay for you to publish it.
+
+00:04:57.200 --> 00:04:57.700
+And so that's what they did.
+
+00:05:01.060 --> 00:05:01.160
+They invited me and I submitted the paper and
+
+00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:02.240
+it was a very good process.
+
+00:05:04.280 --> 00:05:04.540
+That was a very, it was a good peer review
+
+00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:06.760
+critique. So I changed the paper quite a bit.
+
+00:05:07.640 --> 00:05:07.940
+It's still not a great paper.
+
+00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:09.320
+It's just a small case study.
+
+00:05:11.880 --> 00:05:12.100
+That's the kind of thing that you have a lot
+
+00:05:14.580 --> 00:05:14.800
+in medical research where also people don't
+
+00:05:17.280 --> 00:05:17.720
+have a lot of time to do research,
+
+00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:19.480
+proper research, which takes a very long
+
+00:05:21.020 --> 00:05:21.520
+time. And so that's why MDPI.
+
+00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:24.660
+And they are in the most of the relevant
+
+00:05:27.280 --> 00:05:27.780
+citation indices. So they are reputable
+
+00:05:30.700 --> 00:05:30.920
+enough. I mean, normally I would say for
+
+00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:33.060
+anybody who does anything like this,
+
+00:05:36.200 --> 00:05:36.420
+you might not even want to bother with the
+
+00:05:37.260 --> 00:05:37.640
+journal these days anymore.
+
+00:05:38.760 --> 00:05:39.260
+You just go straight to ArcSci,
+
+00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:41.620
+put out your preprint.
+
+00:05:44.380 --> 00:05:44.540
+And in fact, what will happen if you're on
+
+00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:46.440
+ArcSci, if somebody finds it interesting,
+
+00:05:49.400 --> 00:05:49.900
+they're going to reach out to you to capture
+
+00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:54.280
+your paper and have it published under their
+
+00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:56.120
+heading. Oh yeah, actually the other reason
+
+00:05:58.260 --> 00:05:58.660
+why I wanted MDPI is because there were open
+
+00:05:59.480 --> 00:05:59.980
+access from the start.
+
+00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:02.660
+And I really like, if you go to the paper,
+
+00:06:03.820 --> 00:06:04.200
+I really like the way it's presented.
+
+00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:07.340
+So I looked at a few papers and I thought
+
+00:06:11.640 --> 00:06:12.140
+it's a really nice online access,
+
+00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:13.980
+online open access solution.
+
+00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:17.220
+That's the long answer,
+
+00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:17.720
+sorry.
+
+00:06:20.660 --> 00:06:21.060
+[Speaker 0]: No, that was perfectly fine and you provided
+
+00:06:23.400 --> 00:06:23.760
+many details so it was far from a boring
+
+00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:25.420
+answer, let me reassure you.
+
+00:06:26.820 --> 00:06:27.100
+Moving on to the question,
+
+00:06:28.900 --> 00:06:29.120
+we only have about 8 minutes left so I'd like
+
+00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:31.500
+to finish those 2 questions and let people in
+
+00:06:33.960 --> 00:06:34.460
+the audience speak. So do you think immersion
+
+00:06:37.060 --> 00:06:37.500
+can be achieved on teaching other students
+
+00:06:38.100 --> 00:06:38.600
+with different backgrounds?
+
+00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:42.180
+[Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, that's a really good question.
+
+00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:48.380
+I had actually a discussion last night with
+
+00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:49.920
+my wife in bed about this,
+
+00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:52.860
+about the use of textbooks which are famously
+
+00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:55.840
+non-immersive because they're consumed away
+
+00:06:58.140 --> 00:06:58.640
+from the class. Very rarely you sit in class
+
+00:07:00.100 --> 00:07:00.540
+like people used to do and read something
+
+00:07:01.960 --> 00:07:02.420
+together. Maybe they did that in English.
+
+00:07:04.200 --> 00:07:04.700
+And that is of course instantly immersive.
+
+00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:06.700
+But in computer science,
+
+00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:08.180
+many other topics, psychology,
+
+00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:10.300
+you know, biology and so on,
+
+00:07:11.820 --> 00:07:12.260
+you cannot get immersion,
+
+00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:14.240
+at least not in a lecture theater.
+
+00:07:16.760 --> 00:07:16.960
+You get it in a lab because people solve the
+
+00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:18.920
+problem and then they're immersed in it.
+
+00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:20.680
+So, but my answer would be,
+
+00:07:22.580 --> 00:07:22.680
+yes, I can think totally immersion can be
+
+00:07:25.260 --> 00:07:25.540
+achieved anywhere, but what you have to do is
+
+00:07:29.180 --> 00:07:29.500
+you have to not lecture and you have to let
+
+00:07:31.280 --> 00:07:31.640
+students do work as you go along.
+
+00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:33.840
+So I used to lecture quite a bit because I
+
+00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:38.220
+was an insecure young professor and just read
+
+00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:41.400
+all my slides and my notes as I used to use,
+
+00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:43.540
+as everybody uses to when they start.
+
+00:07:45.660 --> 00:07:46.100
+But as I went along, I realized,
+
+00:07:47.860 --> 00:07:48.240
+you know, I've got such a grasp of the topic
+
+00:07:50.660 --> 00:07:51.080
+that I really everything I do now is prepared
+
+00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:53.720
+in Emacs in an interactive way so I start
+
+00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:55.480
+saying a few words and then the students
+
+00:07:57.840 --> 00:07:58.000
+immediately we get to work and they seem to
+
+00:07:59.640 --> 00:07:59.840
+love that because in most of the other
+
+00:08:01.460 --> 00:08:01.680
+classes people just talk at them they take
+
+00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:03.500
+their stuff home and work at home,
+
+00:08:04.640 --> 00:08:05.140
+which is of course is super.
+
+00:08:06.220 --> 00:08:06.680
+But most of the students,
+
+00:08:08.320 --> 00:08:08.600
+if they have, in at least in a liberal arts
+
+00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:10.220
+college, they have 5 other classes,
+
+00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:13.520
+they do not take a lot of time to do the work
+
+00:08:16.389 --> 00:08:16.880
+at home. So it's, you know,
+
+00:08:18.420 --> 00:08:18.840
+yeah, It's kind of different.
+
+00:08:19.820 --> 00:08:20.020
+It's kind of risky, yeah,
+
+00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:22.360
+but the main point I was trying to make is
+
+00:08:26.320 --> 00:08:26.740
+Emacs and Org Mode really helped me to boil
+
+00:08:28.780 --> 00:08:29.220
+that interactive session down to something
+
+00:08:30.320 --> 00:08:30.800
+that will work in the classroom.
+
+00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:32.559
+I don't have to jump around between
+
+00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:33.740
+platforms. For example,
+
+00:08:35.659 --> 00:08:35.799
+this term, and I didn't use Emacs in the
+
+00:08:36.419 --> 00:08:36.919
+class with the students,
+
+00:08:39.740 --> 00:08:40.240
+I had to render using a package.
+
+00:08:42.169 --> 00:08:42.299
+It's actually a very nice package called,
+
+00:08:45.620 --> 00:08:46.100
+what's it called? Ox, what's it called?
+
+00:08:50.020 --> 00:08:50.520
+Ox, Ox IPNB. It's called Ox IPNB.
+
+00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:53.360
+So what it does is it renders in the usual
+
+00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:55.580
+way with Emacs, Org Mode does,
+
+00:08:58.580 --> 00:08:58.700
+renders interactive notebook files in
+
+00:09:00.560 --> 00:09:01.060
+Jupyter. And that took me a lot of time.
+
+00:09:03.700 --> 00:09:03.840
+And I immediately noticed as soon as the
+
+00:09:05.680 --> 00:09:06.180
+teacher has to fight platforms themselves,
+
+00:09:09.520 --> 00:09:09.920
+they take the ball off the immersion task,
+
+00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:12.340
+you know, to keep the student on the problem.
+
+00:09:18.060 --> 00:09:18.560
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah. Oh, go on, please.
+
+00:09:22.340 --> 00:09:22.840
+Yeah. I was going to remark that.
+
+00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:23.260
+[Speaker 1]: So yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
+
+00:09:24.760 --> 00:09:25.120
+I suppose it might be MIT style.
+
+00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:26.140
+Big difference though,
+
+00:09:27.620 --> 00:09:27.900
+my classes are very, very short,
+
+00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:30.060
+small. So I have like between 10 and 15
+
+00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:32.180
+students per class. 1 of the reasons why I
+
+00:09:34.800 --> 00:09:35.080
+went to this college is because I was fed up
+
+00:09:36.740 --> 00:09:36.940
+teaching, trying to teach hundreds of
+
+00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:40.580
+students. Okay, sorry,
+
+00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:42.520
+do some of your students nag you about using
+
+00:09:43.260 --> 00:09:43.460
+VS Code? Yes, they do,
+
+00:09:44.800 --> 00:09:45.300
+but their arguments aren't very good.
+
+00:09:48.420 --> 00:09:48.740
+They hadn't really compared Emacs and VS
+
+00:09:51.300 --> 00:09:51.800
+Code. And what I do, actually I use RStudio
+
+00:09:53.560 --> 00:09:53.860
+as well, demonstrate VS Code,
+
+00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:01.060
+RStudio and Emacs. And I think it's very easy
+
+00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:02.840
+for them to see. And there are some videos
+
+00:10:04.900 --> 00:10:05.020
+about that as well, how much easier it is to
+
+00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:08.520
+get into Emacs to limit your investments to
+
+00:10:09.520 --> 00:10:09.820
+what you actually wanna do.
+
+00:10:11.680 --> 00:10:11.840
+When the problem with VS Code is it comes at
+
+00:10:13.780 --> 00:10:14.280
+you with this sort of Microsoft store
+
+00:10:16.780 --> 00:10:17.280
+ideology, like a gazillion plugins,
+
+00:10:18.340 --> 00:10:18.840
+which if you're a developer,
+
+00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:20.140
+you know what you want.
+
+00:10:23.620 --> 00:10:24.120
+And I mean, it's a bit like VS Code is like
+
+00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:27.940
+Google search for as if you were programming
+
+00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:30.820
+in Google search, a complete waste of time.
+
+00:10:32.920 --> 00:10:33.280
+Having said that, I've also seen some videos
+
+00:10:35.900 --> 00:10:36.180
+with people who really know how to use VS
+
+00:10:37.040 --> 00:10:37.420
+Code. And of course, you know,
+
+00:10:40.940 --> 00:10:41.180
+if somebody gets on the inside of a tool and
+
+00:10:44.340 --> 00:10:44.480
+spends upwards of a thousand hours in the
+
+00:10:45.340 --> 00:10:45.840
+tool, they'll be great.
+
+00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:47.580
+But that's not true for beginners.
+
+00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:50.780
+So hold on, there's another 1.
+
+00:10:51.820 --> 00:10:52.320
+I'm reading them, sorry.
+
+00:10:54.920 --> 00:10:55.420
+Leo, I can see the questions,
+
+00:10:57.500 --> 00:10:58.000
+but you may wanna turn them around.
+
+00:11:00.520 --> 00:11:00.720
+[Speaker 0]: No, No, no, please, please,
+
+00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:01.560
+you're free to read them.
+
+00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:02.900
+I'm on your fasted computer.
+
+00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:04.600
+[Speaker 1]: Some of you, too, that's the nagging.
+
+00:11:05.660 --> 00:11:06.100
+I teach simple programming at a vocational
+
+00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:07.700
+school, and even after showing the students
+
+00:11:09.060 --> 00:11:09.520
+Vim, Vim, of course, is a contender,
+
+00:11:10.760 --> 00:11:11.260
+and now I'm telling them I prefer Emacs.
+
+00:11:14.060 --> 00:11:14.260
+They still all choose VS Code as their
+
+00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:17.460
+editor. Well, okay, what I did is mandatory.
+
+00:11:18.640 --> 00:11:19.140
+I didn't let them choose.
+
+00:11:21.740 --> 00:11:21.980
+That's what I did. And I thought that was
+
+00:11:23.300 --> 00:11:23.800
+quite risky, but in the end,
+
+00:11:26.140 --> 00:11:26.400
+it turns out that the best students loved it
+
+00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:28.580
+and keep using Emacs in their jobs.
+
+00:11:32.140 --> 00:11:32.640
+I hear that now. The students in the middle
+
+00:11:35.640 --> 00:11:35.860
+were probably the ones who would pick VS Code
+
+00:11:37.900 --> 00:11:38.400
+because every tutorial they see,
+
+00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:40.440
+they learn a lot through YouTube and so
+
+00:11:41.760 --> 00:11:42.260
+everything they see is in VS Code.
+
+00:11:43.780 --> 00:11:44.180
+If there were more tutorials in Emacs,
+
+00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:45.600
+I'm trying to make some,
+
+00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:47.620
+then of course that would be different.
+
+00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:53.940
+But I think it's partly brainwashing and
+
+00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:55.840
+partly, of course, the other reason is there
+
+00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:00.320
+is no online Emacs. They use VS Code Dev,
+
+00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:02.460
+right? And that's, of course,
+
+00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:05.140
+they use an online cloud solution.
+
+00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:07.040
+Like most of the students in the high school,
+
+00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:09.360
+I teach Python in the high school right now,
+
+00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:11.600
+and the students only get Chromebooks that
+
+00:12:13.660 --> 00:12:14.160
+are completely cut down to nothing.
+
+00:12:16.920 --> 00:12:17.420
+They cannot have Linux on their Chromebooks.
+
+00:12:19.540 --> 00:12:19.900
+So what are they supposed to do?
+
+00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:21.580
+Their only choice really is Repl.
+
+00:12:24.060 --> 00:12:24.240
+Repl.com is a possibility for them to do
+
+00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:27.540
+that. But, you know, or they use code spaces,
+
+00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:29.560
+which is VS Code in GitHub.
+
+00:12:32.300 --> 00:12:32.660
+[Speaker 0]: Marcus, sorry for the interruption.
+
+00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:34.040
+We only have about 2 minutes left.
+
+00:12:35.140 --> 00:12:35.380
+So if you could take 1 question,
+
+00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:36.760
+that would be great. Sorry.
+
+00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:38.100
+[Speaker 1]: So. I'm observing the same behavior.
+
+00:12:39.620 --> 00:12:40.080
+Any more tutorials will be most welcome.
+
+00:12:43.260 --> 00:12:43.660
+Yes, I I'd love to. I spent the rest of my
+
+00:12:45.980 --> 00:12:46.100
+days on this earth making Emacs tutorials if
+
+00:12:49.016 --> 00:12:49.267
+[Speaker 0]: tutorials if I can.
+
+00:12:49.518 --> 00:12:49.769
+[Speaker 1]: I can. Thank you. DMAX Thank you.
+
+00:12:50.540 --> 00:12:51.040
+Approach to handling EDA.
+
+00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:52.700
+Oh yeah, with white data sets.
+
+00:12:58.440 --> 00:12:58.940
+Well, that's a good point.
+
+00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:03.260
+[Speaker 0]: So Markus, I don't want to put you under too
+
+00:13:06.180 --> 00:13:06.680
+[Speaker 1]: answer the question. The handling EDA,
+
+00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:08.760
+I don't know, if you look at the comments,
+
+00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:09.960
+I think these are on YouTube,
+
+00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:11.340
+right, at some point, Leo?
+
+00:13:12.380 --> 00:13:12.600
+[Speaker 0]: much pressure to Oh yes,
+
+00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:13.860
+they will definitely be on YouTube.
+
+00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:14.540
+answer the
+
+00:13:15.420 --> 00:13:15.580
+[Speaker 1]: I'm going to question you asked about the
+
+00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:17.560
+EDA, that's too long to go into right now,
+
+00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:21.100
+plus my cat is here. So I'm going to answer
+
+00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:22.620
+that in the comments, all right?
+
+00:13:23.660 --> 00:13:24.160
+Start up the conversation.
+
+00:13:27.400 --> 00:13:27.800
+Yes, I'm going to post that in the comments
+
+00:13:27.980 --> 00:13:28.480
+as well.
+
+00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:31.500
+[Speaker 0]: Sure, but Also, just to be clear,
+
+00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:32.640
+Marcus, you're going to continue the
+
+00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:35.440
+discussion. It's just a stream that will be
+
+00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:37.160
+moving on to the next talk in about 50
+
+00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:39.380
+seconds. Marcus, feel free to keep answering
+
+00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:40.760
+questions inside this room.
+
+00:13:42.280 --> 00:13:42.780
+You also have people, we're going to check
+
+00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:44.540
+aside with the stream,
+
+00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:46.280
+we have a number of people in the room.
+
+00:13:47.800 --> 00:13:48.300
+You can see them on the left on the button
+
+00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:51.360
+who are probably going to unmute themselves
+
+00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:52.580
+and ask you questions.
+
+00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:54.440
+So feel free to stay in the room,
+
+00:13:56.680 --> 00:13:57.100
+answer as lengthy as you want the questions
+
+00:13:58.520 --> 00:13:58.700
+because that's more content for us and we
+
+00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:01.640
+love it obviously. But it's just that I
+
+00:14:03.640 --> 00:14:03.760
+personally will be leaving to take care of
+
+00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:04.860
+the rest of the talks.
+
+00:14:06.660 --> 00:14:06.880
+So, Markus, do you have any last words before
+
+00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:07.740
+we move on?
+
+00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:09.680
+[Speaker 1]: No, just thank you for this wonderful...
+
+00:14:10.580 --> 00:14:11.080
+I'm going to copy this.
+
+00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:13.280
+I don't think I listened to the talk by
+
+00:14:15.040 --> 00:14:15.200
+Sascha yet, but I'm going to do that because
+
+00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:18.080
+I really want to copy this conference format.
+
+00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:19.860
+I think that is the conference format of the
+
+00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:21.820
+future, using volunteers to put together
+
+00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:23.100
+conferences. So I can't wait.
+
+00:14:24.560 --> 00:14:24.720
+Nobody wants to come to Batesville where I
+
+00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:25.840
+am, but thank you so much.
+
+00:14:26.680 --> 00:14:27.180
+That was really super professional.
+
+00:14:27.540 --> 00:14:28.040
+I love that.
+
+00:14:31.920 --> 00:14:32.420
+[Speaker 0]: Great. Okay, we are almost perfectly on time.
+
+00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:35.420
+I think we caught up about 1 or 2 seconds
+
+00:14:36.820 --> 00:14:37.200
+into the last sentence you said but otherwise
+
+00:14:38.800 --> 00:14:38.960
+we were splendidly on time.
+
+00:14:39.760 --> 00:14:40.260
+So thank you so much Marcus.
+
+00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:43.140
+[Speaker 1]: You're welcome. So I wanted to say a little
+
+00:14:46.160 --> 00:14:46.660
+bit about that question about handling EDA.
+
+00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:52.960
+[Speaker 0]: Can you see the chat on the left?
+
+00:14:54.220 --> 00:14:54.720
+Because people have started asking questions
+
+00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:56.180
+on the left. Can you see the chat?
+
+00:14:56.366 --> 00:14:56.866
+[Speaker 1]: I mean I used email. Sorry,
+
+00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:00.820
+[Speaker 0]: So you've got multiple avenues for questions.
+
+00:15:01.093 --> 00:15:01.166
+[Speaker 2]: You can
+
+00:15:01.880 --> 00:15:02.380
+[Speaker 0]: still answer questions in the chat.
+
+00:15:03.540 --> 00:15:03.760
+[Speaker 1]: sorry, sorry. Okay, I'm just going to go into
+
+00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:05.240
+that. Yeah, that's fine.
+
+00:15:06.420 --> 00:15:06.760
+[Speaker 0]: Sure, I'll need to go now.
+
+00:15:08.260 --> 00:15:08.560
+So Marcus, have a great day and I'll probably
+
+00:15:08.860 --> 00:15:09.360
+see you later.
+
+NOTE Start of section to review
+
+00:15:11.780 --> 00:15:12.280
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, thank you. Sorry.
+
+00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:15.620
+Bye bye. There was a question about the,
+
+00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:17.560
+I wanted to ask the answer the question about
+
+00:15:21.380 --> 00:15:21.760
+EDA, large data sets. So,
+
+00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:24.660
+I mean, I teach undergraduate now,
+
+00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:28.100
+so there's a limited number of courses,
+
+00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:32.360
+like where I use, actually have big data
+
+00:15:35.860 --> 00:15:36.100
+issues. And I mean I'm not saying that I'm
+
+00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:38.760
+not that I don't run into performance issues
+
+00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:40.580
+with Emacs. I obviously do.
+
+00:15:43.380 --> 00:15:43.680
+But like the performance issues in Emacs are
+
+00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:45.780
+comparable to performance issues for example
+
+00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:49.580
+when using R. In R everything is in memory So
+
+00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:52.700
+you are limited to the available,
+
+00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:56.020
+what is it, 2 gigabyte or whatever memory of
+
+00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.180
+your computer. So you would have to find
+
+00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:00.360
+other infrastructure solutions anyway.
+
+00:16:05.540 --> 00:16:05.860
+The advantage of using Emacs is that I can,
+
+00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:07.620
+within 1 Org Mode file,
+
+00:16:09.780 --> 00:16:10.280
+connect to an external database.
+
+00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:13.840
+I can even, as probably most of you know,
+
+00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:17.860
+I can even use it as a text-based web browser
+
+00:16:20.140 --> 00:16:20.640
+if I want to. So I could look at individual
+
+00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:26.780
+files. And the other point of EDA of course
+
+00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:30.640
+is that you're not supposed to look at the
+
+00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:33.260
+tables. You're supposed to get the basic
+
+00:16:40.800 --> 00:16:41.300
+frame of your data. Is there a header?
+
+00:16:43.540 --> 00:16:43.780
+What's the approximate size and stuff like
+
+00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:45.980
+that? And then you're supposed to import it
+
+00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:47.580
+into a data frame ideally,
+
+00:16:50.760 --> 00:16:51.260
+at least in portions. And I don't think,
+
+00:16:56.040 --> 00:16:56.260
+yeah, so that's it. But the full answer is
+
+00:16:59.720 --> 00:16:59.980
+that I have not done big data analysis in
+
+00:17:01.780 --> 00:17:02.280
+Emacs. So that's actually a really nice
+
+00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:06.099
+extension. I'm going to write that down as a
+
+00:17:07.900 --> 00:17:08.260
+thing to talk about in some future talk.
+
+00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:10.819
+Okay, so ADA with big data.
+
+00:17:13.579 --> 00:17:13.940
+Even though interesting would be to know what
+
+00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:16.560
+kind of size of data you're actually talking
+
+00:17:18.800 --> 00:17:19.300
+about. So I don't know,
+
+00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:25.940
+what is it, upwards of 1 terabyte or
+
+00:17:27.099 --> 00:17:27.520
+something like that, I don't know.
+
+00:17:28.520 --> 00:17:29.020
+That'd be interesting to know.
+
+00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:34.940
+Haven't done that in class.
+
+00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:40.460
+So there's another question.
+
+00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:43.020
+Proportion of students that you think would
+
+00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:44.820
+keep on using Emacs after your course?
+
+00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:46.000
+That's not a difficult question,
+
+00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:47.880
+because as I said, I have very small classes.
+
+00:17:48.760 --> 00:17:49.200
+I've been here since 2 years.
+
+00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:51.540
+So I'm in touch with almost all the students.
+
+00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:54.760
+In fact, I'm getting them work after school.
+
+00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:55.980
+So that's really cool.
+
+00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:00.660
+And everybody who took to Emacs really
+
+00:18:03.540 --> 00:18:03.900
+seriously, so probably about 25% or so keep
+
+00:18:05.660 --> 00:18:06.160
+using Emacs after, afterwards.
+
+00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:08.360
+I mean, even in the job,
+
+00:18:09.580 --> 00:18:10.080
+right, in the professional field.
+
+00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:13.080
+Who, those who keep using Emacs after the
+
+00:18:14.760 --> 00:18:15.180
+course, I think the number is greater,
+
+00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:16.920
+but I have not followed up on that.
+
+00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:23.140
+I have to, my guess is more than half,
+
+00:18:24.860 --> 00:18:25.360
+I would say, half or more than half.
+
+00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:27.880
+Oh, Aaron, thank you so much.
+
+00:18:31.220 --> 00:18:31.320
+That's very sweet. But I didn't think the
+
+00:18:32.080 --> 00:18:32.300
+presentation was great.
+
+00:18:33.700 --> 00:18:33.840
+I was thinking about redoing it,
+
+00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:35.700
+but this is actually the first take.
+
+00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:38.860
+It was late, I had lots of other stuff to do.
+
+00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:44.700
+I think what I'm more interested in than
+
+00:18:46.760 --> 00:18:47.260
+papers is probably this idea of making
+
+00:18:50.860 --> 00:18:51.020
+Emacs-based data science videos because there
+
+00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:52.120
+aren't many out there.
+
+00:18:53.100 --> 00:18:53.600
+Most of the people who do,
+
+00:18:56.980 --> 00:18:57.240
+and computer science, most people who do that
+
+00:18:59.060 --> 00:18:59.240
+are not either developers and certainly not
+
+00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:02.080
+teachers. So I think that's a good idea.
+
+00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:03.740
+I'm gonna pick that up.
+
+00:19:15.040 --> 00:19:15.540
+So to do more Remax based data science videos
+
+00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:20.200
+Is there anything else?
+
+00:19:22.260 --> 00:19:22.360
+More people. There are some people here in
+
+00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:23.300
+the room still.
+
+00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:26.100
+[Speaker 2]: If you do a PSVL on work.
+
+00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:31.140
+What? Or wiki. What's my YouTube channel?
+
+00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:36.220
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, I'm going to give you the,
+
+00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:38.520
+I've got a bunch of different YouTube
+
+00:19:40.580 --> 00:19:40.720
+channels. I'm going to put them in the
+
+00:19:42.740 --> 00:19:43.240
+comments to my talk. Hold on,
+
+00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:46.500
+the 1 where I have the latest Emacs videos,
+
+00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:48.740
+you find my name, there's nobody in the world
+
+00:19:50.560 --> 00:19:51.060
+with my name. So if you look for Gerten Krag
+
+00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:55.740
+on YouTube, then you will find it.
+
+00:20:00.060 --> 00:20:00.320
+[Speaker 2]: But I got a bunch of them.
+
+00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:01.940
+Hold on, I'm going to give you the...
+
+00:20:19.540 --> 00:20:20.040
+[Speaker 1]: My channel. Okay, This 1 has only got a few
+
+00:20:23.800 --> 00:20:24.300
+videos. But so there's 1 with a lot more.
+
+00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:32.720
+Few recent videos. And I'm going to post
+
+00:20:41.120 --> 00:20:41.320
+more. Other ones in the comments of this
+
+00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:44.340
+video. Okay, what else?
+
+00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:51.140
+I'm trying to find my way back to the button.
+
+00:20:58.980 --> 00:20:59.200
+Okay, cool. Oh, yes, thank you.
+
+00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:01.500
+I will. That's very good.
+
+00:21:02.780 --> 00:21:03.120
+Thank you so much. Of course,
+
+00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:05.940
+I use Vork. I hadn't even thought of it.
+
+00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:15.140
+Very good. It's interesting,
+
+00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:18.020
+that's something that comes to my mind.
+
+00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:19.700
+When I was a young student,
+
+00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:24.020
+right, people who used Emacs and the web
+
+00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:25.920
+wasn't particularly large.
+
+00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:29.440
+So the volunteers would automatically make
+
+00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:31.420
+videos but not for commercial purposes.
+
+00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:34.740
+Now you have an army of people who make
+
+00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:37.700
+commercial videos and the videos are usually
+
+00:21:40.560 --> 00:21:41.040
+good for the first 10% of every content,
+
+00:21:42.340 --> 00:21:42.540
+but as soon as it gets a little more
+
+00:21:44.620 --> 00:21:44.760
+difficult, they either don't know what to do
+
+00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:48.600
+anymore or they don't do it because it's not
+
+00:21:50.820 --> 00:21:50.980
+commercially viable. The number of people who
+
+00:21:53.520 --> 00:21:53.680
+move on is gets smaller and smaller and
+
+00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:55.740
+smaller. So there's no commerce anymore.
+
+00:21:57.340 --> 00:21:57.840
+But when I was a student,
+
+00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:00.980
+pretty much all the documentation everywhere
+
+00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.380
+was created by volunteers,
+
+00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:04.840
+just like this conference or like anything in
+
+00:22:09.320 --> 00:22:09.480
+org mode. And that doesn't seem to be much of
+
+00:22:12.260 --> 00:22:12.760
+a trend anymore, but maybe we can resurrect
+
+00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:22.500
+it. So, yes, I'm definitely going to
+
+00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:25.840
+contribute to that. Multiple people are
+
+00:22:30.540 --> 00:22:31.040
+typing here. Oh, sorry.
+
+00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:36.180
+Yes. Thank you so much.
+
+00:22:40.760 --> 00:22:40.920
+I'm gonna put that, I'm gonna rectify that in
+
+00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:45.260
+the comment. Having said that,
+
+00:22:49.320 --> 00:22:49.820
+I am not 100% sure that I didn't lie here.
+
+00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:52.760
+May just be because I didn't have much time
+
+00:22:53.860 --> 00:22:54.340
+to put the presentation together.
+
+00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:56.820
+And it's perfectly possible that that's
+
+00:22:59.280 --> 00:22:59.780
+actually Google slides and not all reveal.
+
+00:23:02.120 --> 00:23:02.320
+In the classroom when I present and just do
+
+00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:04.100
+lectures, I always do reveal,
+
+00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:07.900
+but most of the time I do a tree slide.
+
+00:23:10.520 --> 00:23:10.840
+That's the quickest way to do it for me.
+
+00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:15.060
+So, so presentation. Hold on,
+
+00:23:16.080 --> 00:23:16.580
+Let me just copy this 1.
+
+00:23:20.320 --> 00:23:20.820
+Make sure that this doesn't get lost.
+
+00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:23.200
+Thank you so much for that.
+
+00:23:25.600 --> 00:23:26.100
+And presentations in class.
+
+00:23:29.820 --> 00:23:30.320
+I use sometimes org-present,
+
+00:23:32.360 --> 00:23:32.860
+but there are issues with the font sometimes.
+
+00:23:36.560 --> 00:23:36.960
+I use Treeslide most of the time and Org
+
+00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:44.720
+[Speaker 2]: tool.
+
+00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:46.780
+[Speaker 1]: Reveal. But this 1 is my top Of course,
+
+00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:49.140
+this is not org, so forget about that.
+
+00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:08.220
+Okay. Yeah, so you can send me your,
+
+00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:12.160
+you've got my email, I think,
+
+00:24:13.780 --> 00:24:14.060
+on the end, if you're interested in following
+
+00:24:15.860 --> 00:24:16.360
+up or letting me know about your stuff.
+
+00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:18.220
+It might be interesting to,
+
+00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:20.060
+I don't know, might be interesting to put
+
+00:24:21.540 --> 00:24:22.040
+together a conference or a little seminar
+
+00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:23.000
+just for educators.
+
+00:24:38.770 --> 00:24:39.025
+DF is still typing, I'm waiting.
+
+00:24:39.280 --> 00:24:39.780
+I'm waiting.
+
+00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:46.420
+[Speaker 2]: Actually, our mod maintainer,
+
+00:24:51.860 --> 00:24:52.280
+Bastian, was talking about the possibility to
+
+00:24:53.620 --> 00:24:54.120
+have just an Org Mod conference.
+
+00:24:59.020 --> 00:24:59.200
+But the question is, is it worth making a
+
+00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:02.940
+[Speaker 1]: A whole separate 1 what?
+
+00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:05.020
+[Speaker 2]: whole separate 1? A whole separate org
+
+00:25:09.100 --> 00:25:09.600
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, I see. Yeah, probably would be.
+
+00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:11.340
+Actually.
+
+00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:13.940
+[Speaker 2]: dedicated conference. It's just like you see
+
+00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:15.980
+how EmacsConf is well done.
+
+00:25:19.080 --> 00:25:19.440
+So it's like creating anything that as good
+
+00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:25.540
+[Speaker 1]: Yes. No, I think that's a good idea.
+
+00:25:26.120 --> 00:25:26.620
+Yeah, I mean.
+
+00:25:30.100 --> 00:25:30.480
+[Speaker 2]: as tricky. I mean, Okay,
+
+00:25:32.560 --> 00:25:32.920
+it's anywhere, like half of Emacs is anywhere
+
+00:25:36.380 --> 00:25:36.880
+remote. So it's almost the same.
+
+00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.200
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah. Well, I suppose at this point,
+
+00:25:41.260 --> 00:25:41.580
+I don't know if that's what you mean,
+
+00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:45.040
+Org Mode is probably what attracts people to
+
+00:25:46.620 --> 00:25:47.060
+Emacs in the first place.
+
+00:25:50.540 --> 00:25:51.040
+Like, I suppose Org Roam is the,
+
+00:25:54.140 --> 00:25:54.600
+maybe the biggest 1 for people even outside
+
+00:25:57.540 --> 00:25:58.040
+of computer science. I use Org.ROM
+
+00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:07.560
+for everything. I think the maintainer or
+
+00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:09.140
+maybe the creator of Org.MODE
+
+00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:11.740
+has claimed and said for many years that Org
+
+00:26:13.940 --> 00:26:14.220
+Mode itself doesn't actually necessarily need
+
+00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:16.940
+Emacs. You can have it as a completely
+
+00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.660
+separate application as well.
+
+00:26:20.600 --> 00:26:21.020
+But for a number of reasons,
+
+00:26:23.300 --> 00:26:23.440
+I don't like that. I really like the idea to
+
+00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:30.660
+[Speaker 2]: why- The current strategy is that It has to
+
+00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:33.580
+be Emacs because the configurability is 1 of
+
+00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:35.140
+the strong points anyway.
+
+00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:35.800
+[Speaker 1]: have it inside Emacs. The reason That's true.
+
+00:26:37.120 --> 00:26:37.620
+[Speaker 2]: You cannot make a separate application.
+
+00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:39.800
+[Speaker 1]: No, that's true. I was going to say that.
+
+00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:41.460
+The thing is you use the flexibility.
+
+00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:43.220
+Plus, you also use the,
+
+00:26:45.800 --> 00:26:46.080
+I don't know if that's the right word,
+
+00:26:48.380 --> 00:26:48.760
+but you use there's something about the free
+
+00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:52.600
+ideology of Emacs that is what attracted me
+
+00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:56.260
+to it in the first place when I was younger
+
+00:26:59.620 --> 00:27:00.120
+and that I find even more important now.
+
+00:27:02.980 --> 00:27:03.480
+So what they say the community aspect,
+
+00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:08.800
+the reason, the main reason why Python is so
+
+00:27:12.620 --> 00:27:13.120
+big today, really. So yeah.
+
+00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:17.860
+[Speaker 2]: But in terms of going out of Emacs,
+
+00:27:20.800 --> 00:27:21.300
+it's org syntax that is supposed to be like
+
+00:27:22.760 --> 00:27:23.260
+breaking out of Emacs.
+
+00:27:28.340 --> 00:27:28.540
+Yeah. So like there's a plan to lay out the
+
+00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:30.920
+actual standard document so that you can
+
+00:27:32.040 --> 00:27:32.540
+register the format officially.
+
+00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:34.760
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think I've heard that too.
+
+00:27:36.060 --> 00:27:36.560
+I've not followed up on it much.
+
+00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:39.320
+I don't know what the,
+
+00:27:40.760 --> 00:27:41.260
+I mean, that probably would,
+
+00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:43.780
+it would very likely, if you do that,
+
+00:27:45.060 --> 00:27:45.380
+it would at least for a short time,
+
+00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:47.660
+strengthen org mode and weaken emacs.
+
+00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:50.880
+I don't know what other examples,
+
+00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:54.680
+if there are other examples of applications
+
+00:27:57.560 --> 00:27:57.840
+pulled out of IDEs like that.
+
+00:27:58.940 --> 00:27:59.440
+I'm not aware of any others.
+
+00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:02.660
+[Speaker 2]: Actually, people are trying to make
+
+00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:04.920
+three-seater drama, people are trying to make
+
+00:28:05.740 --> 00:28:06.120
+like some external parsers,
+
+00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:10.320
+a lot of them. And a lot of stuff is done on
+
+00:28:11.820 --> 00:28:12.320
+mobile part, like Android,
+
+00:28:13.820 --> 00:28:14.320
+iOS, especially recently.
+
+00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:18.980
+So things that are Emacs independent are
+
+00:28:22.940 --> 00:28:23.040
+[Speaker 1]: Okay, yeah. I have no doubt that there is a
+
+00:28:26.120 --> 00:28:26.620
+[Speaker 2]: demanded. Especially in the environment,
+
+00:28:27.540 --> 00:28:28.040
+like every time.
+
+00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:30.680
+[Speaker 1]: demand. Yeah. I mean, I didn't get into that
+
+00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:35.020
+very much. I have some of my students have 0
+
+00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:36.900
+affinity with computers.
+
+00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:39.900
+They really don't know their way around their
+
+00:28:43.820 --> 00:28:44.320
+computers at all. And so for them,
+
+00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:51.440
+It is quite important to learn how to find
+
+00:28:56.380 --> 00:28:56.520
+your way around Emacs because it's like a
+
+00:28:57.320 --> 00:28:57.820
+little operating system,
+
+00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:00.300
+but it's not. It's an operating system
+
+00:29:03.460 --> 00:29:03.960
+without much of the obscurity.
+
+00:29:07.760 --> 00:29:07.960
+And the alternative to that would be to
+
+00:29:10.040 --> 00:29:10.520
+simply let them work only on the command
+
+00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:12.480
+line, which is another possibility.
+
+00:29:16.040 --> 00:29:16.160
+But, you know, there of course you are
+
+00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:20.520
+limited with regard to if you want to swap
+
+00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:23.500
+languages. So for example,
+
+00:29:25.900 --> 00:29:26.000
+quite often I find myself in the situation I
+
+00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:28.780
+teach data science in R and Python and in
+
+00:29:31.360 --> 00:29:31.520
+Emacs org mode I can demonstrate both of
+
+00:29:34.600 --> 00:29:35.100
+these side by side in the same file.
+
+00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:38.700
+And that's a great advantage.
+
+00:29:42.040 --> 00:29:42.540
+Not to overburden the students when they are
+
+00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:45.100
+at the beginning with things that you don't
+
+00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:47.620
+want them to necessarily learn about.
+
+00:29:50.560 --> 00:29:51.000
+And plus the thing what I like as a graduate
+
+00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:54.400
+student when I stepped onto Emacs was that it
+
+00:29:59.960 --> 00:30:00.140
+was infinite possibilities to lose myself in
+
+00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:03.060
+Emacs and you know go on and learn more stuff
+
+00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:06.340
+about it. But it's such a long time ago that
+
+00:30:09.860 --> 00:30:10.360
+I barely dare to mention it anymore.
+
+00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:12.880
+[Speaker 2]: For command line, actually,
+
+00:30:16.820 --> 00:30:17.080
+it's since the Jupyter notebooks and that
+
+00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:19.380
+Google thing they are running.
+
+00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:23.820
+It's getting so popular that it's clear that
+
+00:30:26.600 --> 00:30:26.760
+command line is just losing in popularity in
+
+00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:31.920
+[Speaker 1]: well, yes and no. I mean,
+
+00:30:32.860 --> 00:30:33.360
+[Speaker 2]: this. Yeah, of course,
+
+00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:38.400
+Not the usage. People are still using it,
+
+00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:38.900
+obviously.
+
+00:30:40.520 --> 00:30:41.020
+[Speaker 1]: I mean, in Google Colab,
+
+00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:43.620
+only the paid version allows you to go to the
+
+00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:45.460
+terminal and use the command line.
+
+00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:48.580
+But of course, the traction,
+
+00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:50.140
+and I think that's kind of interesting,
+
+00:30:54.560 --> 00:30:54.680
+1 of the reasons why IPython or any of the
+
+00:30:56.780 --> 00:30:56.960
+Jupyter notebooks are so cool is because you
+
+00:30:59.440 --> 00:30:59.940
+can use a lot of shell commands from the
+
+00:31:04.620 --> 00:31:05.100
+IPython shell. There's a whole bunch of magic
+
+00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:06.960
+commands which are quite powerful.
+
+00:31:09.620 --> 00:31:10.120
+The 1 that comes to mind is a time,
+
+00:31:11.820 --> 00:31:12.320
+the time command, for example,
+
+00:31:13.580 --> 00:31:14.080
+you know, it gives you a really nice,
+
+00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:16.800
+performance, quick performance check.
+
+00:31:17.660 --> 00:31:18.120
+There's a bunch of different,
+
+00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:20.900
+I think probably close to a hundred magic
+
+00:31:22.340 --> 00:31:22.840
+commands that you can use in Jupyter.
+
+00:31:25.600 --> 00:31:25.840
+But I don't know JupyterLab too well,
+
+00:31:28.840 --> 00:31:29.220
+but I noticed that the companies that do
+
+00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:31.080
+online training, And they are usually the
+
+00:31:34.600 --> 00:31:34.920
+ones that are closest to what beginners want,
+
+00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:36.100
+especially in business.
+
+00:31:40.780 --> 00:31:40.960
+And what those companies do is they take
+
+00:31:43.040 --> 00:31:43.220
+JupiterLab and turn it into a presentation of
+
+00:31:44.300 --> 00:31:44.800
+their own. Another 1 is Notable,
+
+00:31:47.380 --> 00:31:47.880
+notable.io. That's another 1.
+
+00:31:50.280 --> 00:31:50.500
+They took JupyterLab and turned it into
+
+00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:52.200
+something commercial. It's boosted up a
+
+00:31:58.680 --> 00:31:58.860
+little bit. And so the shell inside the
+
+00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:01.960
+JupyterLab has some of the most more
+
+00:32:03.120 --> 00:32:03.620
+important shell properties.
+
+00:32:05.800 --> 00:32:06.000
+And so people still use the command line
+
+00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:07.600
+without knowing that they use the command
+
+00:32:12.600 --> 00:32:13.100
+line. But I also like doing,
+
+00:32:14.820 --> 00:32:15.320
+how do I use org-roam?
+
+00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:22.020
+Well, I use it, I do not have not used it
+
+00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:23.000
+with the students yet,
+
+00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:25.020
+only the best students have sort of seen me
+
+00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:29.760
+use it and copied it. But I use it probably
+
+00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:32.000
+in a very naive, trivial way.
+
+00:32:33.080 --> 00:32:33.580
+I can't say that I am,
+
+00:32:36.460 --> 00:32:36.960
+that I have a very sophisticated use.
+
+00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:39.640
+I basically, I like the fact that,
+
+00:32:42.940 --> 00:32:43.100
+I mean, it's built on the original concept of
+
+00:32:44.280 --> 00:32:44.540
+the, with the German word,
+
+00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:48.280
+Zettelkasten, right? Which is that you do not
+
+00:32:50.780 --> 00:32:50.940
+have to think about a taxonomy because as you
+
+00:32:53.620 --> 00:32:53.800
+move along, your taxonomy changes all the
+
+00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:55.580
+time. You know, what you think is important
+
+00:32:56.820 --> 00:32:57.320
+at the beginning, your root node,
+
+00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:58.940
+as you go along, you realize,
+
+00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:00.600
+oh, that's not the root node at all.
+
+00:33:02.560 --> 00:33:02.720
+There's a higher level and a higher level and
+
+00:33:04.540 --> 00:33:04.780
+some of the lower levels aren't at the lower
+
+00:33:05.860 --> 00:33:06.280
+level, they're actually at the higher level.
+
+00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:10.460
+So you're beginning to create hierarchies
+
+00:33:13.940 --> 00:33:14.280
+that are out of date as soon as you create
+
+00:33:16.260 --> 00:33:16.360
+the hierarchy. So what is the idea of the
+
+00:33:18.340 --> 00:33:18.480
+tittle custom is that anything that comes to
+
+00:33:20.600 --> 00:33:21.100
+your mind you can throw in the custom the box
+
+00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:26.540
+it literally means Box of notes and That's
+
+00:33:27.560 --> 00:33:27.740
+what I appreciate about it.
+
+00:33:32.780 --> 00:33:32.920
+So I create a I create a note pretty much for
+
+00:33:35.280 --> 00:33:35.780
+anything I do, but I've only used it for
+
+00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:38.160
+about a year and a half or so,
+
+00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:39.740
+or grown, maybe a year.
+
+00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:43.700
+So I can see that I'm coming up against the
+
+00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:46.980
+Zettelkasten or note box problems,
+
+00:33:50.660 --> 00:33:50.860
+which is that I've got so many notes now that
+
+00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:52.960
+unless I have clever aliases,
+
+00:33:56.580 --> 00:33:56.680
+there is a chance that I might forget that I
+
+00:33:59.540 --> 00:34:00.040
+[Speaker 2]: That's why you need meta-notes.
+
+00:34:01.100 --> 00:34:01.600
+[Speaker 1]: have a note. So I need a- Yes,
+
+00:34:04.420 --> 00:34:04.920
+[Speaker 2]: In other words, a summarization is important,
+
+00:34:06.300 --> 00:34:06.800
+no matter what system you use.
+
+00:34:09.600 --> 00:34:09.719
+[Speaker 1]: yes. But what I'm trying to say is that's a
+
+00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:11.260
+different approach than hierarchies,
+
+00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:13.580
+right? It's the same, it's the same,
+
+00:34:15.460 --> 00:34:15.960
+it's the same principle as a relational
+
+00:34:18.219 --> 00:34:18.719
+database versus a hierarchical database.
+
+00:34:23.179 --> 00:34:23.360
+Same thing. So, yeah, I've not used that.
+
+00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:25.400
+I've not really used, actually I have cut
+
+00:34:26.520 --> 00:34:27.020
+meta notes, of course I do.
+
+00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:28.940
+So notes that point to other notes.
+
+00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:32.320
+Yes, of course. I use those.
+
+00:34:32.780 --> 00:34:33.280
+I have forgotten that.
+
+00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:38.800
+I have not taught that part to the students
+
+00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:42.840
+because I do project work with the students,
+
+00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:46.360
+but there's only so much time.
+
+00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:48.219
+I'm already, I mean, already,
+
+00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:50.980
+I don't think there's any class that where I
+
+00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:55.820
+am able to use more than 30% of my material.
+
+00:34:57.400 --> 00:34:57.620
+And the reason is that when the students come
+
+00:34:59.120 --> 00:34:59.220
+to class, which is I pointed out in the
+
+00:35:00.600 --> 00:35:01.100
+video, they know so little.
+
+00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:03.720
+And most of the students,
+
+00:35:04.680 --> 00:35:04.960
+at least in liberal arts,
+
+00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:10.280
+spend just too little time outside of class,
+
+00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:11.600
+getting there, you know,
+
+00:35:12.660 --> 00:35:13.040
+drilling down into the,
+
+00:35:14.140 --> 00:35:14.640
+into the, into the infrastructure,
+
+00:35:16.700 --> 00:35:17.060
+into the work. Only, only the best students
+
+00:35:18.820 --> 00:35:19.320
+do that. The ones that really catch fire.
+
+00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:22.280
+[Speaker 2]: Don't you have something like a course
+
+00:35:23.260 --> 00:35:23.760
+project at the end?
+
+00:35:25.460 --> 00:35:25.760
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, I have course, not at the end.
+
+00:35:27.340 --> 00:35:27.720
+I use Scrum. Maybe I shouldn't,
+
+00:35:29.140 --> 00:35:29.640
+but I've used Scrum for many years.
+
+00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:32.600
+So I have course projects that start at the
+
+00:35:35.080 --> 00:35:35.320
+beginning and they do sprint reviews every 3
+
+00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:40.640
+or 4 weeks. So term end projects I find
+
+00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:43.100
+completely useless because the students do
+
+00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:45.260
+the work at the very end of the term.
+
+00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:49.740
+[Speaker 2]: By term end I mean they don't start at the
+
+00:35:51.380 --> 00:35:51.880
+end, they just report at the end.
+
+00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:54.300
+[Speaker 1]: I use the IMRAD, I use the IMRAD method.
+
+00:35:57.720 --> 00:35:58.220
+So I use IMRAD, basically IMRAD plus,
+
+00:35:59.900 --> 00:36:00.300
+plus Scrum, right? So,
+
+00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:02.220
+So the first sprint review is introductory,
+
+00:36:02.980 --> 00:36:03.480
+the research proposal,
+
+00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:05.040
+the second 1 is about methodology,
+
+00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:06.360
+the third 1 about results,
+
+00:36:07.540 --> 00:36:08.040
+and the last 1 is their final presentation.
+
+00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:11.100
+And so that's the way I manage the projects,
+
+00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.020
+but that's about as much as I can do with
+
+00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:17.680
+them. It's a good idea.
+
+00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:19.780
+I hadn't even thought about using Org-ROM
+
+00:36:22.640 --> 00:36:22.760
+with them, but to teach them that might be a
+
+00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:24.180
+good idea, actually.
+
+00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:27.220
+[Speaker 2]: Well, for Org-ROM, actually,
+
+00:36:32.060 --> 00:36:32.340
+what I found useful during my graduate is for
+
+00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:34.740
+literature review. Yes.
+
+00:36:37.080 --> 00:36:37.340
+The other part of our program that is not
+
+00:36:39.520 --> 00:36:40.020
+about your like, noting down your thoughts,
+
+00:36:42.340 --> 00:36:42.840
+is about writing about literature notes.
+
+00:36:44.860 --> 00:36:45.180
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that's a good idea,
+
+00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:46.060
+actually. And of course,
+
+00:36:47.660 --> 00:36:47.960
+I mean, there's more stuff that they should
+
+00:36:49.700 --> 00:36:50.140
+learn, you know, like another 1,
+
+00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:51.780
+since you mentioned literature,
+
+00:36:54.140 --> 00:36:54.640
+you know, latex and Bibtech is another
+
+00:36:57.340 --> 00:36:57.840
+obvious extension of that.
+
+00:37:01.020 --> 00:37:01.120
+But that is actually a good idea because the
+
+00:37:02.720 --> 00:37:03.080
+literature is what they have the hardest time
+
+00:37:06.560 --> 00:37:06.980
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, like when you need to read like 50
+
+00:37:06.980 --> 00:37:07.480
+papers.
+
+00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:12.480
+[Speaker 1]: with. Last term, since you mentioned that,
+
+00:37:16.020 --> 00:37:16.220
+I had a really nice experience because 1 of
+
+00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:18.300
+our librarians, our digital librarian,
+
+00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:19.920
+came along and talked to the students,
+
+00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:21.580
+and he taught me about a tool called
+
+00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:23.540
+litmap.com, which is basically,
+
+00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:25.420
+I don't know how it's implemented,
+
+00:37:26.680 --> 00:37:27.180
+but it's basically a graph,
+
+00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:31.620
+a graph representation of papers organized by
+
+00:37:35.080 --> 00:37:35.580
+citation. It's very, very cool.
+
+00:37:38.160 --> 00:37:38.560
+And the students who used to only find,
+
+00:37:40.520 --> 00:37:41.020
+I don't know, 1 paper and otherwise,
+
+00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:44.940
+of course, 15 YouTube videos and 100 blogs,
+
+00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:49.360
+suddenly started finding and reading
+
+00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:52.120
+scientific papers. It was only because of
+
+00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:54.900
+this presentation. So you should take the,
+
+00:37:57.060 --> 00:37:57.560
+I think, I hope that is the right,
+
+00:37:59.060 --> 00:37:59.560
+that's the right mode,
+
+00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:02.380
+litmaps. Okay, it's not litmap,
+
+00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:05.640
+it's called Litmaps. I'm gonna give you an
+
+00:38:08.860 --> 00:38:09.000
+example. I don't know if I can share this,
+
+00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:10.240
+if you can look at that.
+
+00:38:13.140 --> 00:38:13.640
+But basically you create a,
+
+00:38:16.080 --> 00:38:16.580
+1 can use 1 of your papers as a seed,
+
+00:38:18.340 --> 00:38:18.840
+and then it will create a graph,
+
+00:38:21.260 --> 00:38:21.760
+graph representation of it for you.
+
+00:38:24.720 --> 00:38:25.220
+And this is a powerful tool in itself.
+
+00:38:27.100 --> 00:38:27.600
+But what I'm saying is that the students
+
+00:38:30.700 --> 00:38:30.860
+suddenly, their use of literature and that
+
+00:38:32.120 --> 00:38:32.620
+citation goes to the roof.
+
+00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:36.140
+And I've been waiting for that for probably
+
+00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:38.260
+15 years since I've started teaching.
+
+00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:43.400
+So it's crazy. That's really cool.
+
+00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:47.720
+[Speaker 2]: So here is the same tool,
+
+00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:49.400
+it's called connected papers.
+
+00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:53.540
+It's based on the open source citation data.
+
+00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:56.340
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I know that as well,
+
+00:38:56.680 --> 00:38:57.180
+I think.
+
+00:39:01.240 --> 00:39:01.480
+[Speaker 2]: It's actually very useful when you just start
+
+00:39:03.680 --> 00:39:03.960
+learning the topic, it's like you find 1
+
+00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:05.800
+paper, then you look into the connections,
+
+00:39:07.900 --> 00:39:08.260
+you can quickly narrow down to the most
+
+00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:10.260
+cited, the core papers on the topic.
+
+00:39:12.340 --> 00:39:12.520
+[Speaker 1]: Of course, and that is exactly their
+
+00:39:14.640 --> 00:39:14.820
+situation, you know, and they're always at
+
+00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:16.740
+the beginning. As you go on,
+
+00:39:18.420 --> 00:39:18.680
+you develop different ways,
+
+00:39:19.640 --> 00:39:20.140
+but for these complete beginners,
+
+00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:22.680
+that's a good idea. Thank you so much for
+
+00:39:30.020 --> 00:39:30.520
+[Speaker 0]: anything else?
+
+00:39:31.820 --> 00:39:31.940
+[Speaker 1]: that. Okay, guys, I've enjoyed the
+
+00:39:33.460 --> 00:39:33.960
+conversation, so you should definitely,
+
+00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:37.940
+I'm going to take some of these things away.
+
+00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:42.280
+Thank you so much for that.
+
+00:39:45.240 --> 00:39:45.740
+Have you done, Yanta, have you done org mode
+
+00:39:47.700 --> 00:39:48.200
+documentations yourself on WOC?
+
+00:39:51.820 --> 00:39:52.120
+Or do you have a sort of a favorite 1?
+
+00:39:53.160 --> 00:39:53.600
+I mean, I often on walk,
+
+00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:56.740
+I often use the documentation for code
+
+00:39:59.440 --> 00:39:59.620
+blocks. I used to when I started doing that
+
+00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:02.800
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, because it's only on work.
+
+00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:04.260
+It's not part of the manual.
+
+00:40:05.140 --> 00:40:05.280
+[Speaker 1]: for the first time. Yeah,
+
+00:40:06.940 --> 00:40:07.440
+yeah. And so I've used that a lot.
+
+00:40:09.060 --> 00:40:09.560
+[Speaker 2]: Have I done? Not really,
+
+00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:11.460
+mostly fixing the errors.
+
+00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:15.560
+Okay. Yeah, I think that's a really good
+
+00:40:15.560 --> 00:40:16.060
+idea.
+
+00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:19.780
+[Speaker 1]: All right. Well, thank you very much.
+
+00:40:22.040 --> 00:40:22.360
+And it's great to be at this conference.
+
+00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:24.440
+I think I'm going to get on.
+
+00:40:28.740 --> 00:40:29.240
+[Speaker 2]: Thanks for answering all the questions.
+
+00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:32.560
+And for the talk, It was quite interesting to
+
+00:40:35.160 --> 00:40:35.660
+see our modules in actual teaching.
+
+00:40:38.240 --> 00:40:38.560
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, thank you. And I got to thank Daniel
+
+00:40:40.600 --> 00:40:40.840
+German from Canada, the 1 of,
+
+00:40:43.580 --> 00:40:43.660
+I had him on 1 of the slides because he,
+
+00:40:45.140 --> 00:40:45.350
+he inspired me to do that.
+
+00:40:47.420 --> 00:40:47.540
+And, and I wouldn't be at the conference if I
+
+00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:49.480
+hadn't contacted him and said oh here's my
+
+00:40:50.860 --> 00:40:51.020
+paper and he said oh you should come to the
+
+00:40:52.540 --> 00:40:52.680
+conference and so that's why I came to the
+
+00:40:58.200 --> 00:40:58.480
+conference. Thank you very much and as they
+
+00:41:03.860 --> 00:41:04.104
+say keep in touch. You're welcome.
+
+00:41:04.836 --> 00:41:05.080
+Okay bye-bye. You're welcome.
+
+00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:15.820
+Okay, bye-bye. Take a copy of the chat before
+
+00:41:22.020 --> 00:41:22.360
+you go, if you can. Happy weekend to just bye
+
+00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:22.860
+bye.
+
+00:41:36.660 --> 00:41:36.840
+[Speaker 2]: You are currently the only person in this
+
+00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:37.340
+conference.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-test--what-i-learned-by-writing-test-cases-for-gnu-hyperbole--mats-lidell--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-test--what-i-learned-by-writing-test-cases-for-gnu-hyperbole--mats-lidell--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..bc1bfff5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-test--what-i-learned-by-writing-test-cases-for-gnu-hyperbole--mats-lidell--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1406 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:08.740 --> 00:00:09.240
+[Speaker 0]: Do we have any listeners?
+
+00:00:13.340 --> 00:00:13.840
+It's you and I. I have a question.
+
+00:00:16.420 --> 00:00:16.640
+How many tests do you have for hyperbole and
+
+00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:19.279
+How would you rate the test coverage compared
+
+00:00:21.279 --> 00:00:21.500
+to other packages? Well,
+
+00:00:28.279 --> 00:00:28.700
+that's a tricky 1. Shall I spell it out loud
+
+00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:31.600
+and then maybe type it at the same time?
+
+00:00:36.420 --> 00:00:36.920
+So, I believe it's around like more than 300
+
+00:00:43.660 --> 00:00:44.059
+test cases now. But I cannot compare the test
+
+00:00:45.220 --> 00:00:45.720
+coverage to any other
+
+00:01:00.020 --> 00:01:00.520
+other package. Maybe I can type that later.
+
+00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:02.060
+What do you say, Badal?
+
+00:01:02.660 --> 00:01:02.900
+[Speaker 1]: package. I have no knowledge of any Yeah,
+
+00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:04.239
+sure, yeah, that's totally fine.
+
+00:01:05.660 --> 00:01:06.160
+Feel free to just answer them with voice.
+
+00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:09.220
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, yeah. There's another question.
+
+00:01:10.520 --> 00:01:10.920
+1 small suggestion to me,
+
+00:01:11.440 --> 00:01:11.940
+should means optional,
+
+00:01:13.660 --> 00:01:14.160
+where shall or must means required.
+
+00:01:15.940 --> 00:01:16.220
+Not sure if it is too late to make a major
+
+00:01:17.220 --> 00:01:17.540
+grammar change like that.
+
+00:01:18.080 --> 00:01:18.580
+Very nice presentation.
+
+00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:20.340
+So thanks for presentation,
+
+00:01:24.380 --> 00:01:24.780
+but the package ERT, well,
+
+00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:28.080
+it's not something that we have come up with.
+
+00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:29.340
+It's a standard package.
+
+00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:32.560
+So I believe it has been around for a long
+
+00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:38.000
+time. So, but please feel free to make
+
+00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:40.180
+suggestions and maybe you can,
+
+00:01:43.660 --> 00:01:43.860
+you know, like do a copy or like an alias for
+
+00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:46.200
+that. If you believe it makes more sense for
+
+00:01:48.080 --> 00:01:48.580
+your test cases to have that instead.
+
+00:01:53.540 --> 00:01:53.720
+And then we have another question here.
+
+00:01:55.540 --> 00:01:55.680
+For your info, you may find this helpful for
+
+00:01:58.780 --> 00:01:59.020
+running MX test lint both from a command line
+
+00:02:01.220 --> 00:02:01.720
+and from within MX with a transit menu.
+
+00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:04.040
+GitHub alpha papa make sure,
+
+00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:07.100
+yes. It also works on remote CI.
+
+00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:08.740
+Yeah, thank you, Alpha Papa.
+
+00:02:10.580 --> 00:02:11.080
+I think I've looked into that,
+
+00:02:13.440 --> 00:02:13.940
+but we haven't made any use of that.
+
+00:02:17.920 --> 00:02:18.080
+But maybe you'll inspire me to give it
+
+00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:18.900
+another look.
+
+00:02:29.260 --> 00:02:29.760
+[Speaker 2]: Hey guys.
+
+00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:34.460
+[Speaker 0]: I remember, I recognize that voice.
+
+00:02:37.160 --> 00:02:37.660
+Hi, Bob. Hey, how are you?
+
+00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:40.580
+Congratulations, man. Thanks,
+
+00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:43.320
+Hugh. Thank you. I have another question
+
+00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:45.900
+here. It is easy to run ad hoc tests inside
+
+00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:48.600
+an Emacs session given the command line
+
+00:02:51.180 --> 00:02:51.560
+scripts you need to run to get the batch test
+
+00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:55.120
+session running? You said it's to run an
+
+00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:05.920
+ad-hoc test. I'm not sure I understand that
+
+00:03:14.440 --> 00:03:14.940
+question. Yes, please.
+
+00:03:15.660 --> 00:03:16.160
+[Speaker 1]: Maybe I can rephrase. Sure.
+
+00:03:19.900 --> 00:03:20.400
+So I think what I understand is that since
+
+00:03:22.540 --> 00:03:23.040
+you have to use some of these command lines
+
+00:03:25.440 --> 00:03:25.940
+scripts to get a batch test session running,
+
+00:03:28.780 --> 00:03:29.180
+is it easy to run ad hoc tests in an Emacs
+
+00:03:30.700 --> 00:03:30.900
+session or does that, like in your
+
+00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:32.540
+experience, has that been difficult?
+
+00:03:36.820 --> 00:03:37.320
+[Speaker 0]: Well, from the command line,
+
+00:03:38.660 --> 00:03:38.940
+if you look at the command line,
+
+00:03:44.160 --> 00:03:44.340
+you'll see that it's only like a few image
+
+00:03:46.480 --> 00:03:46.980
+functions to call to get that behavior to run
+
+00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:55.240
+the batch tests. So I think we made some
+
+00:03:57.100 --> 00:03:57.600
+support function for that in hyperbole.
+
+00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:02.960
+So it's not, I don't think it's possible out
+
+00:04:05.540 --> 00:04:06.040
+of the box to do it, but it's not complicated
+
+00:04:08.060 --> 00:04:08.560
+to do it.
+
+00:04:12.190 --> 00:04:12.340
+[Speaker 2]: You can define a test anytime,
+
+00:04:14.780 --> 00:04:15.280
+right? Just like a new function.
+
+00:04:18.899 --> 00:04:19.240
+So that's ad hoc. You just write your test
+
+00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:20.519
+and you can run it.
+
+00:04:22.900 --> 00:04:23.400
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, of course,
+
+00:04:25.900 --> 00:04:26.180
+but I got the impression it was about running
+
+00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:29.060
+all your tests like we did with the command
+
+00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:36.020
+line. Well, so the question is more about how
+
+00:04:38.260 --> 00:04:38.600
+would you run all your test cases from within
+
+00:04:44.860 --> 00:04:45.140
+Emacs? And the easy answer to that is
+
+00:04:48.420 --> 00:04:48.860
+actually you load all your test case files,
+
+00:04:51.760 --> 00:04:52.080
+and then you run ERT with the T as the test
+
+00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:53.880
+selector and then it will run all your test
+
+00:04:53.880 --> 00:04:54.380
+cases.
+
+00:05:01.780 --> 00:05:01.960
+[Speaker 1]: Right. And I think they have expanded on
+
+00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:03.520
+their question a little bit as well,
+
+00:05:04.960 --> 00:05:05.220
+clarifying that. In other words,
+
+00:05:07.200 --> 00:05:07.360
+can you tweak tests in an Emacs session and
+
+00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:09.360
+run them right away? Which I believe,
+
+00:05:11.400 --> 00:05:11.640
+if I understand correctly what Bob was
+
+00:05:13.820 --> 00:05:14.320
+saying, you can basically define or redefine
+
+00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:16.080
+functions on the fly and then have them be
+
+00:05:16.440 --> 00:05:16.940
+run, right?
+
+00:05:22.200 --> 00:05:22.360
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, yes. You just go into that test case and
+
+00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:24.620
+you just change it and you run it again.
+
+00:05:29.060 --> 00:05:29.200
+And either you have to sort of load it or you
+
+00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:32.060
+can use like the commercial thing I did.
+
+00:05:36.140 --> 00:05:36.340
+You use hyperbole and just hit meta return on
+
+00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:38.860
+the test case and it will load it and run the
+
+00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:42.360
+test case again. So that's of course what you
+
+00:05:44.220 --> 00:05:44.720
+normally do when you're defining a test or
+
+00:05:47.440 --> 00:05:47.940
+debug a test case or develop a test case.
+
+00:05:49.960 --> 00:05:50.460
+Just start with something small,
+
+00:05:52.700 --> 00:05:53.200
+just make sure maybe you can prepare the test
+
+00:05:55.320 --> 00:05:55.680
+properly and run it again and again and again
+
+00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:57.220
+until you're ready with it.
+
+00:05:59.760 --> 00:05:59.960
+That's a good point. You can definitely do
+
+00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:03.280
+that and that's part of how I normally
+
+00:06:06.420 --> 00:06:06.920
+develop the test cases that I mean start with
+
+00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:09.400
+something small so I can see that I get there
+
+00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:12.240
+maybe the right input in the buffer that I
+
+00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:14.340
+want to test on or something and I expand on
+
+00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:18.400
+that more and more and add more and more more
+
+00:06:18.460 --> 00:06:18.960
+and more more
+
+00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:31.540
+[Speaker 2]: tests to it. You might tell them a bit about
+
+00:06:33.280 --> 00:06:33.480
+how many test cases you have.
+
+00:06:36.020 --> 00:06:36.440
+I guess you commented on that and like what
+
+00:06:40.320 --> 00:06:40.820
+happens, you know, with the CICD pipeline,
+
+00:06:43.780 --> 00:06:44.020
+every time we commit, you know,
+
+00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:46.560
+across all the versions and what you have set
+
+00:06:48.760 --> 00:06:49.040
+up there because you know I wish people could
+
+00:06:53.940 --> 00:06:54.140
+see it. You can go and check on GitHub and
+
+00:06:57.440 --> 00:06:57.720
+you can see the logs right of any of the
+
+00:06:59.760 --> 00:06:59.960
+builds and but tell them a bit about that
+
+00:07:01.080 --> 00:07:01.320
+Mats because I think that's pretty
+
+00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:01.820
+impressive.
+
+00:07:07.280 --> 00:07:07.760
+[Speaker 0]: Well, that's part of more the CI,
+
+00:07:11.760 --> 00:07:12.160
+CD, part of how we developed this using
+
+00:07:15.460 --> 00:07:15.580
+GitHub and workflows that you get out of the
+
+00:07:20.740 --> 00:07:20.900
+box from there. So this more than 300 test
+
+00:07:23.440 --> 00:07:23.720
+cases on our round for I think 5 different
+
+00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:26.980
+versions of Emacs when we do a pull request
+
+00:07:33.900 --> 00:07:34.400
+or a commit. So that's a good way to ensure
+
+00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:38.540
+that it works from version 27.2
+
+00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:42.740
+up to the latest master version because
+
+00:07:45.860 --> 00:07:46.360
+there's some changes in Emacs over different
+
+00:07:48.940 --> 00:07:49.340
+versions that can affect your functions or
+
+00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:50.100
+your code.
+
+00:07:56.580 --> 00:07:56.720
+[Speaker 2]: They all run in parallel and so typically in
+
+00:08:00.580 --> 00:08:00.780
+under 60 seconds I think you've got all of
+
+00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:04.460
+them run so you've got pretty extensive
+
+00:08:08.860 --> 00:08:09.240
+testing which does catch interesting bugs
+
+00:08:09.760 --> 00:08:10.260
+here and there, right?
+
+00:08:13.320 --> 00:08:13.820
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, of course it does.
+
+00:08:18.060 --> 00:08:18.560
+I mean, you normally develop with 1 version
+
+00:08:20.280 --> 00:08:20.540
+and then you think everything is okay.
+
+00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:21.820
+But then when you're tested with the
+
+00:08:23.460 --> 00:08:23.960
+different versions, you find out that there
+
+00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:26.580
+are some changes and there are things you
+
+00:08:30.140 --> 00:08:30.400
+might not sort of keep track of what's
+
+00:08:34.340 --> 00:08:34.640
+happening also. So that's a way to get
+
+00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:38.940
+noticed that the core developers of Emacs
+
+00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:41.480
+have changed something that you sort of based
+
+00:08:44.380 --> 00:08:44.840
+your code on. Now I got another question
+
+00:08:47.900 --> 00:08:48.160
+here. Did you have to change hyperbole code
+
+00:08:50.580 --> 00:08:50.760
+and design to be more readily testable as you
+
+00:08:52.160 --> 00:08:52.660
+were increasing your test coverage?
+
+00:08:55.520 --> 00:08:56.020
+Well, we haven't done that to a lot,
+
+00:09:00.160 --> 00:09:00.320
+to a big degree, although I believe that that
+
+00:09:03.760 --> 00:09:04.260
+is an important thing for sort of the future
+
+00:09:06.020 --> 00:09:06.500
+to do that because some of the hyperbolic
+
+00:09:08.520 --> 00:09:08.720
+functions are very complicated and long and
+
+00:09:10.640 --> 00:09:11.140
+that makes testing them rather difficult.
+
+00:09:14.660 --> 00:09:14.900
+So, at a few places we have sort of broken up
+
+00:09:17.260 --> 00:09:17.720
+functions in smaller pieces so it'd be easier
+
+00:09:20.280 --> 00:09:20.660
+to do like unit tests of the different parts
+
+00:09:27.740 --> 00:09:27.980
+of it. But there's a lot of more work that
+
+00:09:28.680 --> 00:09:29.180
+has to be done there.
+
+00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:34.020
+[Speaker 2]: 1 of the nice things is you know the great
+
+00:09:36.760 --> 00:09:36.820
+environment in Lisp where we're able to do a
+
+00:09:40.520 --> 00:09:40.900
+lot of interactive bottom-up testing before
+
+00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:43.280
+we even get to lighting tech pieces.
+
+00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:49.140
+So it does tend to be more higher level bugs,
+
+00:09:51.140 --> 00:09:51.640
+I think, that get caught in cross-functional
+
+00:09:55.940 --> 00:09:56.100
+interaction. We had 1 recently that was an
+
+00:09:58.100 --> 00:09:58.600
+Emacs version change. It had been a function
+
+00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:01.600
+that had existed for a long time.
+
+00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:03.840
+It had an and rest in it,
+
+00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:06.240
+in its argument list, so it would assemble
+
+00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:09.100
+the list of arguments from individual
+
+00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.820
+arguments that you would give it,
+
+00:10:13.100 --> 00:10:13.600
+and they decided in a recent version,
+
+00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:15.700
+I think with Stefan's input,
+
+00:10:19.400 --> 00:10:19.840
+to change that to a list and allow the prior
+
+00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:22.900
+behavior, but it would issue a warning if you
+
+00:10:23.620 --> 00:10:24.060
+use the prior behavior.
+
+00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:25.840
+So all of a sudden, the way you were supposed
+
+00:10:27.180 --> 00:10:27.680
+to do it became semi-invalid.
+
+00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:30.940
+And so we started getting the warning,
+
+00:10:32.760 --> 00:10:33.040
+and we've tried to eliminate all those
+
+00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:36.060
+warnings in recent hyperbole developments.
+
+00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:37.620
+So we're like, what do we do?
+
+00:10:39.020 --> 00:10:39.440
+You know, because we wanted to be backward
+
+00:10:42.140 --> 00:10:42.640
+compatible to where you couldn't use a list.
+
+00:10:44.620 --> 00:10:45.120
+It required you to use individual arguments.
+
+00:10:48.380 --> 00:10:48.560
+And now it's sort of requiring you to do
+
+00:10:51.660 --> 00:10:51.820
+that. And all of that was caused by the
+
+00:10:52.940 --> 00:10:53.440
+automatic testing on it.
+
+00:11:08.680 --> 00:11:08.860
+So you said, Max, you were going to tell us
+
+00:11:12.740 --> 00:11:13.220
+what you learned. So what are the major
+
+00:11:15.368 --> 00:11:15.396
+things that you learned in doing all of this
+
+00:11:15.680 --> 00:11:16.180
+work? All of this work?
+
+00:11:26.520 --> 00:11:26.740
+[Speaker 0]: Well, I tried to cover some of it in the
+
+00:11:29.380 --> 00:11:29.800
+presentation, but as I was going along,
+
+00:11:33.420 --> 00:11:33.920
+the presentation became like twice as long as
+
+00:11:36.180 --> 00:11:36.680
+fitted into the time we had so I had to cut
+
+00:11:42.380 --> 00:11:42.880
+it out. But I think some of the core things
+
+00:11:44.340 --> 00:11:44.840
+still is in the presentation.
+
+00:11:49.560 --> 00:11:50.060
+From a personal perspective,
+
+00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:52.940
+And this might not be hard to realize,
+
+00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:57.460
+but forcing yourself to test functions,
+
+00:12:02.900 --> 00:12:03.060
+test code really forces you to understand the
+
+00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:05.280
+code a little bit better in a way that sort
+
+00:12:07.300 --> 00:12:07.400
+of makes it easier than just to read the
+
+00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:11.960
+code. I don't know how it is for the rest
+
+00:12:13.780 --> 00:12:13.980
+listening to this, but for me it works so
+
+00:12:16.580 --> 00:12:17.080
+that if I just read the code then I don't
+
+00:12:20.140 --> 00:12:20.320
+sort of become as sharp as I should be but if
+
+00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:22.640
+I try to write the test case for it then I
+
+00:12:24.680 --> 00:12:24.880
+really need to understand better of all the
+
+00:12:27.660 --> 00:12:28.160
+edge cases and all the sort of states and etc
+
+00:12:30.060 --> 00:12:30.320
+that is involved and I think that's That's
+
+00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:33.200
+what's sort of 1 of the learning things I
+
+00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:35.280
+wanted to communicate as well that I don't
+
+00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:39.080
+think I covered in detail in the
+
+00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:41.980
+presentation. Maybe all this,
+
+00:12:48.060 --> 00:12:48.340
+but try it. 1 other sort of more from the fun
+
+00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:51.000
+side is that I really think it's fun to write
+
+00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:55.440
+the test. So if you haven't tests in your
+
+00:12:58.020 --> 00:12:58.520
+package, you should start doing that because
+
+00:13:05.740 --> 00:13:06.080
+it is fun. It might feel like some extra
+
+00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:08.580
+work, but it really pays off in the long run,
+
+00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:10.760
+especially if you have it in like a pipeline
+
+00:13:12.520 --> 00:13:12.980
+and where you can run it regularly when you
+
+00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:14.380
+do new commits, et cetera.
+
+00:13:16.560 --> 00:13:17.060
+So, I mean, that's maybe obvious from,
+
+00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:19.440
+if you look from the commercial side or your
+
+00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:21.340
+work side to do it like that.
+
+00:13:22.260 --> 00:13:22.660
+But even for your hobby project,
+
+00:13:26.260 --> 00:13:26.760
+it can be very sort of pay off really well.
+
+00:13:32.900 --> 00:13:33.160
+[Speaker 2]: It's worked really well when we're adding new
+
+00:13:35.020 --> 00:13:35.180
+functionality or we're changing some of the
+
+00:13:36.560 --> 00:13:37.060
+plumbing in the system.
+
+00:13:40.400 --> 00:13:40.580
+You know, you go and you do some surgery and
+
+00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:41.820
+then you run the tests.
+
+00:13:45.400 --> 00:13:45.900
+And sometimes 6 to 10 tests will fail.
+
+00:13:48.260 --> 00:13:48.420
+And you find there, you know,
+
+00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:50.660
+it tends to be they're all interconnected and
+
+00:13:52.920 --> 00:13:53.320
+it leads you back to the single source.
+
+00:13:56.660 --> 00:13:56.980
+You fix that and you know it could be an edge
+
+00:14:00.560 --> 00:14:00.760
+case and off by 1 or Sometimes it's an
+
+00:14:03.520 --> 00:14:03.800
+assumption about the way something is used
+
+00:14:05.980 --> 00:14:06.480
+and it's not actually always true.
+
+00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:10.020
+And so, Matt's just really good at
+
+00:14:13.540 --> 00:14:14.040
+identifying some of those scenarios and
+
+00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:17.980
+keeping us honest, I guess I would say.
+
+00:14:22.900 --> 00:14:23.400
+So I love, I run it as much as I before,
+
+00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:26.900
+you know, even before I commit something.
+
+00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:30.060
+So I get to see, you know,
+
+00:14:30.940 --> 00:14:31.440
+if anything has progressed.
+
+00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:39.920
+So yeah, I really recommend this process to
+
+00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:42.620
+people. I haven't seen it done.
+
+00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:46.080
+I don't think that, I don't know any other
+
+00:14:47.800 --> 00:14:48.300
+package that has done it to this level.
+
+00:14:51.560 --> 00:14:51.820
+And it's been working really great for us.
+
+00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:55.640
+And I think, well, we'll see too when we
+
+00:14:56.780 --> 00:14:57.280
+release to the general public.
+
+00:15:04.380 --> 00:15:04.540
+[Speaker 0]: But Bob, also, maybe the test part of
+
+00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:06.560
+different packages is not the first thing you
+
+00:15:08.900 --> 00:15:09.100
+look at. So I know there are packages that
+
+00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:11.380
+have testing, a lot of testing,
+
+00:15:13.860 --> 00:15:14.160
+but how much, much testing they have or not,
+
+00:15:16.060 --> 00:15:16.220
+I don't know. It's not what you normally look
+
+00:15:17.900 --> 00:15:18.400
+into when you look at someone's else code.
+
+00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:20.820
+You look maybe on the functionality side but
+
+00:15:22.760 --> 00:15:23.000
+not on how they've done the sort of the
+
+00:15:26.540 --> 00:15:26.760
+quality side. So there could be other
+
+00:15:28.780 --> 00:15:29.280
+packages out there that are well equipped.
+
+00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.300
+[Speaker 2]: I hope so. I hope so.
+
+00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:40.180
+[Speaker 0]: What's the craziest bug you found when
+
+00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:45.200
+writing these tests? Well,
+
+00:15:50.760 --> 00:15:50.940
+What springs to my mind just now is that we
+
+00:15:52.760 --> 00:15:52.960
+were doing some tests or I would do some
+
+00:15:55.920 --> 00:15:56.420
+tests for when you narrow,
+
+00:15:57.940 --> 00:15:58.440
+what do you say that? When you,
+
+00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:05.000
+in outlining, when you sort of compress
+
+00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:06.980
+things in an outline, so you just,
+
+00:16:08.540 --> 00:16:09.040
+sorry Bob, maybe you have it,
+
+00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:12.600
+[Speaker 2]: When you hide text.
+
+00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:13.240
+[Speaker 0]: What I'm looking for? Yeah,
+
+00:16:15.580 --> 00:16:15.920
+when you hide. So I was doing some cursor
+
+00:16:17.780 --> 00:16:17.980
+movement over that. And I always assume that
+
+00:16:22.540 --> 00:16:22.900
+if you do like a prefix argument to like a
+
+00:16:23.800 --> 00:16:24.240
+simple cursor movement,
+
+00:16:26.420 --> 00:16:26.920
+like control F moving 1 character position,
+
+00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:28.840
+and you would give it the,
+
+00:16:36.580 --> 00:16:37.080
+and then the prefix, like you want to move
+
+00:16:39.140 --> 00:16:39.640
+like 2 or 3 positions,
+
+00:16:43.040 --> 00:16:43.140
+you would do like control U 3 and then
+
+00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:44.740
+control F and you move 3.
+
+00:16:46.560 --> 00:16:46.960
+I always assumed that that would be exactly
+
+00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:49.440
+the same as if you just hit the key control F
+
+00:16:50.740 --> 00:16:51.240
+3 times, but it's not.
+
+00:16:53.160 --> 00:16:53.560
+So it's not the bug, it's a feature,
+
+00:16:54.620 --> 00:16:55.080
+but that was the craziest thing.
+
+00:16:58.180 --> 00:16:58.360
+I spent the night trying to figure out why
+
+00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:01.000
+our code was wrong, but It turns out that's
+
+00:17:03.560 --> 00:17:04.060
+how Emacs behaves. Try it out yourself.
+
+00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:08.300
+Try to move over the 3 dots at the end of
+
+00:17:09.140 --> 00:17:09.640
+that and see what happens.
+
+00:17:14.060 --> 00:17:14.240
+Do it with cursor hitting the key or using a
+
+00:17:16.260 --> 00:17:16.680
+prefix argument and you see it behaves
+
+00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:19.220
+differently. That was the craziest thing.
+
+00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:22.339
+I think there was some other crazy thing or
+
+00:17:24.280 --> 00:17:24.480
+deep learning also, but I can't come up with
+
+00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:26.760
+it at the moment. So maybe I can write it in
+
+00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:28.400
+the Q&A later.
+
+00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:31.440
+[Speaker 1]: I think we're out of time on the stream,
+
+00:17:33.360 --> 00:17:33.600
+but people are welcome to join Mats and Bob
+
+00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:35.640
+here on BigBlueButton to further discuss
+
+00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:36.980
+this. Thank you both.
+
+00:17:38.674 --> 00:17:38.792
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, thank you. Thanks,
+
+00:17:46.100 --> 00:17:46.600
+Makaay. Thank you. I don't know,
+
+00:17:48.740 --> 00:17:49.240
+Is it only me and Bob here?
+
+00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:51.180
+So Bob, do you want to say something?
+
+00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:57.940
+[Speaker 2]: Well, I think it's been a great day.
+
+00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:01.220
+And I'm glad we did this.
+
+00:18:02.280 --> 00:18:02.780
+It takes a lot of energy.
+
+00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:15.640
+I'm just really excited about the progress
+
+00:18:20.580 --> 00:18:20.740
+that this, and we're actually doing a lot of
+
+00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:24.160
+QA at work and my professional software work
+
+00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:28.840
+and looking at you know how we can do more
+
+00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:33.480
+test driven development and so everybody's
+
+00:18:35.980 --> 00:18:36.200
+talking about this you know we've got AI over
+
+00:18:37.540 --> 00:18:38.040
+here that can generate test cases.
+
+00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:40.700
+But, you know, strangely enough,
+
+00:18:43.100 --> 00:18:43.380
+with the rapidity of development and web
+
+00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:47.220
+applications, I think the level of testing
+
+00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:50.280
+has gone down in recent years compared to
+
+00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:51.780
+where it used to be, right?
+
+00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:53.540
+Because the pace has gone up.
+
+00:18:57.340 --> 00:18:57.840
+And so I think it's starting to turn again
+
+00:18:58.740 --> 00:18:59.240
+where people are saying,
+
+00:19:01.940 --> 00:19:02.440
+we can't just release crap into the
+
+00:19:08.120 --> 00:19:08.620
+Webisphere and we have to better ourselves.
+
+00:19:13.620 --> 00:19:13.820
+And with all these advanced tool sets that
+
+00:19:16.100 --> 00:19:16.600
+you have, that you can do CICD testing,
+
+00:19:19.860 --> 00:19:20.180
+you know, I just, I just see it coming
+
+00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:22.100
+around, you know, as people develop new
+
+00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:24.160
+things. So That's kind of exciting to me
+
+00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:27.480
+because I came from a manufacturing culture
+
+00:19:30.300 --> 00:19:30.780
+originally where we, our company actually
+
+00:19:33.800 --> 00:19:34.300
+started a lot of the manufacturing quality
+
+00:19:37.420 --> 00:19:37.920
+efforts that you saw in Japan and elsewhere
+
+00:19:40.600 --> 00:19:40.740
+in America for a long time and that was you
+
+00:19:42.040 --> 00:19:42.540
+know entirely through testing.
+
+00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:47.020
+We used to just build incredible test cases
+
+00:19:49.120 --> 00:19:49.320
+because we were combining software with
+
+00:19:51.100 --> 00:19:51.380
+hardware. And if, you know,
+
+00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:53.600
+the hardware doesn't work and you ship a
+
+00:19:55.080 --> 00:19:55.520
+million units, you're,
+
+00:19:57.340 --> 00:19:57.840
+you're in trouble. So,
+
+00:20:00.260 --> 00:20:00.760
+that was just something we had to do.
+
+00:20:04.280 --> 00:20:04.780
+And so it's nice to start to see that curve
+
+00:20:07.020 --> 00:20:07.520
+come around. And I think,
+
+00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:10.880
+you know, Matt Vance is very modest,
+
+00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:16.920
+but I think he's really the 1 that started us
+
+00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:20.580
+down this path and really made it into a
+
+00:20:24.620 --> 00:20:24.840
+reality. So everybody else just gets to
+
+00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:26.260
+benefit from that work.
+
+00:20:27.540 --> 00:20:28.040
+So thanks.
+
+00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:33.260
+[Speaker 1]: That's awesome.
+
+00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:40.460
+[Speaker 0]: Thanks. Okay. Yeah. So if there's nothing
+
+00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:43.520
+more here, then maybe we should just close
+
+00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:45.940
+this and I go over to write in the etherpad
+
+00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:48.460
+the replies we had.
+
+00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:52.120
+[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, I think, let's see,
+
+00:20:53.520 --> 00:20:53.760
+I see 1 other person here,
+
+00:20:55.080 --> 00:20:55.580
+I believe Ihor just joined us.
+
+00:20:58.780 --> 00:20:59.060
+Yeah. Yeah, so if you do want to discuss with
+
+00:21:00.220 --> 00:21:00.480
+Mats and Bob, you're welcome to,
+
+00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:02.700
+otherwise, yeah, we can close the room now.
+
+00:21:05.800 --> 00:21:06.020
+[Speaker 3]: Well, I think I missed most of the talk
+
+00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:07.400
+because I had power outage,
+
+00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:12.440
+but the part I heard was about the mock
+
+00:21:16.860 --> 00:21:17.220
+library. And you mentioned that you don't
+
+00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:20.700
+like CL-let, but instead you use mock.
+
+00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:29.800
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I was more saying that you have to do a
+
+00:21:31.560 --> 00:21:32.040
+lot more work when you use the CL letdef.
+
+00:21:34.540 --> 00:21:34.780
+It's for more ambitious and maybe more
+
+00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:37.500
+complicated cases where you want to really
+
+00:21:38.840 --> 00:21:39.340
+make a new implementation,
+
+00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:42.440
+test implementation. If you use the mock,
+
+00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:44.880
+you get a lot of things out of the box,
+
+00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:47.940
+verifying that you actually,
+
+00:21:50.820 --> 00:21:51.040
+like the mock was actually called for
+
+00:21:53.320 --> 00:21:53.820
+instance, whereas if you do with the CLLatf,
+
+00:21:56.520 --> 00:21:56.780
+you would have to take correct track of that
+
+00:22:02.020 --> 00:22:02.520
+yourself. And so, so a lot of more work.
+
+00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:04.260
+Oh yeah.
+
+00:22:07.940 --> 00:22:08.200
+[Speaker 3]: I'm saying that most of the time CLLess is
+
+00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:10.220
+used for simple cases actually.
+
+00:22:12.320 --> 00:22:12.820
+Because, just for example,
+
+00:22:15.100 --> 00:22:15.600
+the function always returns the same.
+
+00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:18.420
+And it tends to be simple lambda that ignores
+
+00:22:19.040 --> 00:22:19.540
+all the input arguments.
+
+00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:23.480
+So that's really trivial most of the time but
+
+00:22:25.520 --> 00:22:25.920
+I actually thought the opposite that mock is
+
+00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:28.140
+supposed to be used for non-trivial cases.
+
+00:22:32.280 --> 00:22:32.520
+[Speaker 0]: Sorry, what was the question?
+
+00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:35.780
+Mock was supposed to be used for non-trivial.
+
+00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:48.180
+Yeah I mean I don't know how to explain this.
+
+00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:50.640
+I mean, CLF can be used for non-trivial
+
+00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:54.840
+definitely. You can define then any behavior
+
+00:22:56.180 --> 00:22:56.680
+you want. You can write your own function,
+
+00:22:58.440 --> 00:22:58.660
+but you need to keep track of whether that
+
+00:22:59.620 --> 00:23:00.100
+function is called or not,
+
+00:23:06.260 --> 00:23:06.380
+for instance. So you have to make note of
+
+00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:08.940
+that the function was called so you can fire
+
+00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:12.800
+sort of an error in case your function wasn't
+
+00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.440
+called because that would be 1 error case.
+
+00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:20.860
+[Speaker 3]: So you mean the mock fires an error if the
+
+00:23:22.580 --> 00:23:23.080
+mocked function was actually not called?
+
+00:23:30.060 --> 00:23:30.560
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, it does. Yes. So if your assumptions,
+
+00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:34.120
+you sort of document with the mock also your
+
+00:23:37.080 --> 00:23:37.220
+assumptions how your code is going to be
+
+00:23:40.020 --> 00:23:40.380
+called. And if those are wrong,
+
+00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:41.540
+you will get an error.
+
+00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:44.060
+So you would, so if the implementation would
+
+00:23:44.840 --> 00:23:45.100
+maybe change, for instance,
+
+00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:47.140
+and not call the thing you're mocking,
+
+00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:50.960
+then you will notice that.
+
+00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:53.560
+But if you see a letdef,
+
+00:23:54.840 --> 00:23:55.040
+then you will have to keep track of that
+
+00:23:57.560 --> 00:23:58.060
+yourself. Okay, I see.
+
+00:23:58.260 --> 00:23:58.760
+I see.
+
+00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:01.740
+[Speaker 3]: And you know, our mode also uses a lot of
+
+00:24:09.340 --> 00:24:09.620
+test. In our mode, we have a lot of tests
+
+00:24:13.940 --> 00:24:14.440
+[Speaker 0]: Ah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure I have.
+
+00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:16.400
+[Speaker 3]: also. We rely on CLLatF for,
+
+00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:19.720
+we don't use third-party libraries at all.
+
+00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:22.640
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, you use CLLatF, okay.
+
+00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:27.180
+Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At First I found it very
+
+00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:29.700
+powerful to use that, but then I sort of,
+
+00:24:32.120 --> 00:24:32.320
+I learned more about how we can use the
+
+00:24:34.340 --> 00:24:34.840
+mocking library for what I needed.
+
+00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:37.400
+And I prefer that at the moment.
+
+00:24:40.560 --> 00:24:41.060
+[Speaker 3]: I see, that is interesting.
+
+00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:42.700
+Because I had seen it,
+
+00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:45.600
+but I didn't consider that it's gonna be
+
+00:24:46.800 --> 00:24:47.300
+useful even in simple cases.
+
+00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:53.140
+[Speaker 0]: It has its limitations.
+
+00:24:58.260 --> 00:24:58.760
+So it's like life, how you turn depends.
+
+00:25:03.740 --> 00:25:04.020
+But maybe I should look more into the org
+
+00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:06.100
+mode and the test case to learn more about
+
+00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:07.980
+that. So thanks for pointing that out.
+
+00:25:14.620 --> 00:25:15.120
+[Speaker 3]: We are trying to cover as much as we can.
+
+00:25:17.520 --> 00:25:17.740
+It's almost impossible for org.
+
+00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:21.000
+But yeah, we keep adding more tests.
+
+00:25:22.780 --> 00:25:23.280
+[Speaker 0]: That's great.
+
+00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:53.200
+Someone's typing. I don't know.
+
+00:25:54.340 --> 00:25:54.840
+Any more questions? No?
+
+00:26:01.060 --> 00:26:01.560
+Okay, then I'll go back and try to document
+
+00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:05.360
+this in the etherpad. Thank you everybody for
+
+00:26:08.860 --> 00:26:09.160
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you guys. Great work.
+
+00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:09.900
+[Speaker 0]: joining. Great. Thank you.
+
+00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:11.600
+Take care. Bye-bye.
+
+00:26:15.060 --> 00:26:15.560
+[Speaker 1]: Take care. Bye. Silence.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-uni--authoring-and-presenting-university-courses-with-emacs-and-a-full-libre-software-stack--james-howell--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-uni--authoring-and-presenting-university-courses-with-emacs-and-a-full-libre-software-stack--james-howell--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..11cda190
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-uni--authoring-and-presenting-university-courses-with-emacs-and-a-full-libre-software-stack--james-howell--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1262 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:01.680 --> 00:00:01.880
+[Speaker 0]: And he can hear us. Can you perhaps do it for
+
+00:00:03.679 --> 00:00:03.760
+me? Great. The little angels in the
+
+00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:05.140
+background have done it for me.
+
+00:00:07.299 --> 00:00:07.759
+So now, finally, that everything is ready.
+
+00:00:08.559 --> 00:00:09.059
+Hi, James. How are you doing?
+
+00:00:10.559 --> 00:00:11.059
+[Speaker 1]: Good morning. Hello.
+
+00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:15.600
+[Speaker 0]: Well, thank you for your talk.
+
+00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:17.440
+And sorry for the little hiccup at the middle
+
+00:00:20.080 --> 00:00:20.380
+we had to put out a fire with the audio
+
+00:00:22.060 --> 00:00:22.560
+going out in the middle and sorry about this.
+
+00:00:23.560 --> 00:00:24.060
+[Speaker 1]: It's no trouble.
+
+00:00:28.220 --> 00:00:28.680
+[Speaker 0]: So James, you've obviously told us about your
+
+00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:30.220
+very fancy setup with the green screen and
+
+00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:32.800
+I'm sad to see that you haven't put out the
+
+00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:35.589
+green screen for your BBB session right now.
+
+00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:37.040
+Do you have it in the background just for
+
+00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:40.380
+you? Right, okay. It wasn't that far.
+
+00:00:43.860 --> 00:00:44.180
+Great. No. So, I'm just going to ask.
+
+00:00:47.260 --> 00:00:47.440
+So, this is the first live Q&A that we have
+
+00:00:49.080 --> 00:00:49.320
+for this session, so things might be coming
+
+00:00:51.480 --> 00:00:51.600
+into place, so pardon us if we take a little
+
+00:00:54.239 --> 00:00:54.340
+bit of time to put the questions on the
+
+00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:55.820
+screen and all of this.
+
+00:00:58.080 --> 00:00:58.260
+What I'm gonna do, I'm just gonna load up the
+
+00:01:02.720 --> 00:01:02.800
+pad. I would invite James to also open the
+
+00:01:03.820 --> 00:01:04.200
+pad on his hand. Sorry,
+
+00:01:05.580 --> 00:01:05.740
+I've got people talking in my ears and it's
+
+00:01:07.240 --> 00:01:07.740
+been a while since I've last had this.
+
+00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:11.869
+Okay, so opening the talks right now.
+
+00:01:13.780 --> 00:01:14.280
+Opening the pad, if I can find it.
+
+00:01:20.440 --> 00:01:20.740
+Open the pad. Okay. Have you got the pad open
+
+00:01:22.360 --> 00:01:22.860
+[Speaker 1]: So I can read the question.
+
+00:01:24.020 --> 00:01:24.280
+[Speaker 0]: on your end, James? Okay,
+
+00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:27.220
+great. Opening it on my end as well.
+
+00:01:28.380 --> 00:01:28.660
+What I'm going to do, folks,
+
+00:01:30.300 --> 00:01:30.800
+I see some of you have joined us on,
+
+00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:32.700
+if I show you, some of the people that have
+
+00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:34.340
+joined us in the BBB room.
+
+00:01:35.240 --> 00:01:35.540
+You can join us as well,
+
+00:01:37.860 --> 00:01:38.260
+all the links are on the talk page or on ISE,
+
+00:01:39.140 --> 00:01:39.520
+you can find it very easily.
+
+00:01:41.960 --> 00:01:42.240
+But what I'm going to start doing is first
+
+00:01:43.660 --> 00:01:43.860
+taking questions in the other pad because
+
+00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:45.700
+it's a little faster to ask questions like
+
+00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:48.080
+this, and then as soon as we've finished,
+
+00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:49.900
+feel free to unmute yourself and ask your
+
+00:01:54.020 --> 00:01:54.160
+questions. All right, so I've got some
+
+00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:57.140
+reactions about OBS being cool and yes,
+
+00:01:59.060 --> 00:01:59.180
+both James and I will be able to tell you
+
+00:02:00.600 --> 00:02:01.100
+that it's very cool. We do very fancy stuff
+
+00:02:05.540 --> 00:02:05.640
+like when I need to talk to production in the
+
+00:02:07.420 --> 00:02:07.540
+background and all the stuff obviously that
+
+00:02:09.020 --> 00:02:09.160
+James has been able to show you with a green
+
+00:02:12.600 --> 00:02:12.800
+screen. So I don't see a whole lot of
+
+00:02:15.780 --> 00:02:16.020
+questions so far. I see a lot of reactions on
+
+00:02:17.420 --> 00:02:17.780
+publishing lectures book and a classic
+
+00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:19.780
+example is John Kitchens obviously.
+
+00:02:24.020 --> 00:02:24.240
+Pedagogy first developments macros are a cool
+
+00:02:28.340 --> 00:02:28.820
+idea. Okay questions so how do you overlap
+
+00:02:30.860 --> 00:02:31.360
+yourself with a presentation it's so cool.
+
+00:02:39.540 --> 00:02:40.040
+[Speaker 1]: It's quite simple OBS provides filters for
+
+00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:42.480
+you can have a separate filter for each video
+
+00:02:44.260 --> 00:02:44.760
+feed. And 1 of the filters that's available
+
+00:02:47.200 --> 00:02:47.520
+is chroma key. You just choose a color to
+
+00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:52.040
+make transparent and just make sure that the
+
+00:02:55.640 --> 00:02:56.140
+webcam is at the top of the composition.
+
+00:03:00.660 --> 00:03:00.900
+And the thing that surprised me the most was
+
+00:03:04.920 --> 00:03:05.380
+how quickly my brain was able to mirror
+
+00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:07.360
+everything and control my body from a
+
+00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:10.740
+separate point of view like the way weather
+
+00:03:15.200 --> 00:03:15.360
+broadcasts are done. It took seconds to be
+
+00:03:16.720 --> 00:03:16.920
+able to do that. Well,
+
+00:03:19.700 --> 00:03:20.200
+and now I have years of practice because that
+
+00:03:22.720 --> 00:03:22.960
+setup that you saw that I used to record this
+
+00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:27.460
+video, I used for years during the pandemic
+
+00:03:30.040 --> 00:03:30.540
+for 4 or 5 semesters to,
+
+00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:33.820
+because my courses are all have 2,
+
+00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:36.900
+3, 400 students, except for the English class
+
+00:03:40.160 --> 00:03:40.460
+which has you know 30 students and so during
+
+00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:43.700
+the pandemic and even after lockdowns were no
+
+00:03:45.780 --> 00:03:46.020
+longer mandated I taught online just because
+
+00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:48.320
+I didn't want to have so many students in the
+
+00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:49.500
+room at the same time.
+
+00:03:53.640 --> 00:03:54.120
+So I've yeah I'm it I have a lot of practice
+
+00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:54.860
+doing that.
+
+00:03:57.780 --> 00:03:58.200
+[Speaker 0]: But it pays off because it looks so natural
+
+00:03:59.960 --> 00:04:00.140
+you know it feels like it's the same thing
+
+00:04:02.200 --> 00:04:02.660
+with weather casters you know it sounds very
+
+00:04:04.440 --> 00:04:04.700
+it looks very easy to do but it also takes
+
+00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:05.780
+quite a bit of practice.
+
+00:04:08.220 --> 00:04:08.400
+1 of the things that you also need to
+
+00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:10.160
+remember if you're using a chroma key that
+
+00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:11.880
+James has explained is that you need to have
+
+00:04:14.380 --> 00:04:14.680
+very good lighting basically for the color to
+
+00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:16.640
+pop out in the background and for your body
+
+00:04:17.779 --> 00:04:18.279
+to be easily highlightable.
+
+00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:21.260
+Okay, were you finished with this question?
+
+00:04:24.440 --> 00:04:24.940
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, let's take another 1.
+
+00:04:28.020 --> 00:04:28.520
+[Speaker 0]: Sure. So how do you deal with video in Beam?
+
+00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:30.560
+I found it so hard to do that.
+
+00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:33.100
+PPT on the other end is easier to achieve.
+
+00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:41.520
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so remember that the slides get
+
+00:04:46.420 --> 00:04:46.920
+produced from Org Mode as PDFs.
+
+00:04:49.820 --> 00:04:50.040
+Well, and in fact, even before when I was
+
+00:04:52.580 --> 00:04:52.740
+using other software to produce slides I
+
+00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:55.760
+produced them as PDFs precisely because I
+
+00:04:58.440 --> 00:04:58.580
+wanted to be able to mark them up on on the
+
+00:05:03.960 --> 00:05:04.160
+screen with the stylus And so I don't do
+
+00:05:07.580 --> 00:05:07.840
+video in the slides. I use OBS to switch from
+
+00:05:09.900 --> 00:05:10.400
+static slides that I mark up with the stylus
+
+00:05:14.540 --> 00:05:14.800
+over to some kind of video viewer and then
+
+00:05:17.320 --> 00:05:17.820
+back. And again that's how I can use Firefox.
+
+00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:21.860
+I use OBS to switch between Firefox and video
+
+00:05:26.820 --> 00:05:27.040
+and the Shornal++ program where I can mark up
+
+00:05:31.280 --> 00:05:31.780
+slides. So those functionalities are...
+
+00:05:35.140 --> 00:05:35.320
+That's why I use different software and pull
+
+00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:37.980
+it all together with OBS so that I can have
+
+00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:41.740
+lots of functional flexibility.
+
+00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:47.660
+[Speaker 0]: Great. Do you ever use things like
+
+00:05:50.320 --> 00:05:50.820
+org-present and stay for the PowerPoint
+
+00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:53.200
+slides? I'm not sure exactly how to read this
+
+00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:54.520
+particular question, but at least we can
+
+00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:56.520
+focus on org-present. Are you familiar with
+
+00:05:56.820 --> 00:05:57.320
+what it is?
+
+00:06:00.060 --> 00:06:00.560
+[Speaker 1]: I've played around with org-present,
+
+00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:07.240
+And again, I guess you could use OrgPresent
+
+00:06:11.440 --> 00:06:11.680
+to show images and to show headings as
+
+00:06:16.820 --> 00:06:17.220
+slides. But again, Because it's such a
+
+00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:20.640
+crucial functionality to be able to mark them
+
+00:06:25.180 --> 00:06:25.360
+up with a stylus. I didn't really show this
+
+00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:27.180
+very much, but I also highlight things the
+
+00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:29.600
+way I would highlight using a laser pointer
+
+00:06:31.960 --> 00:06:32.460
+on the screen. And again,
+
+00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:37.380
+I don't see Emacs being able to do that for
+
+00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:39.060
+another couple of generations.
+
+00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:43.540
+So really the only thing I use Emacs for
+
+00:06:48.900 --> 00:06:49.400
+during presentations is to narrow headings
+
+00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:52.100
+that we can focus on particular text
+
+00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:53.100
+excerpts.
+
+00:06:59.020 --> 00:06:59.180
+[Speaker 0]: Right, yeah. A lot of our presentations at
+
+00:07:00.060 --> 00:07:00.380
+EmacsConf are usually,
+
+00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:01.720
+especially the Org Mode ones,
+
+00:07:02.520 --> 00:07:03.020
+are done with Org Present.
+
+00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:08.980
+Sorry, I had someone talk to me in the ear.
+
+00:07:10.960 --> 00:07:11.460
+You know the problem with EmacsConf is that
+
+00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:13.780
+every year, you have to relearn a lot of
+
+00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:16.340
+skills, and by the time we finish,
+
+00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:19.220
+by Sunday evening, we are masters of it.
+
+00:07:21.460 --> 00:07:21.600
+And then we forget everything by the time the
+
+00:07:22.260 --> 00:07:22.760
+next year comes around.
+
+00:07:24.440 --> 00:07:24.940
+What I was going to say is that org-present
+
+00:07:28.660 --> 00:07:29.160
+is often used by people inside Emacs,
+
+00:07:30.440 --> 00:07:30.940
+Conf, presenting about org-mode.
+
+00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:32.780
+But yeah, whenever you need to do something a
+
+00:07:34.200 --> 00:07:34.360
+little more visual, it gets a little more
+
+00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:36.500
+complicated. Some people have tried to do
+
+00:07:39.020 --> 00:07:39.160
+fancy stuff with SVG, which is probably the
+
+00:07:40.640 --> 00:07:41.140
+path forward for this type of stuff.
+
+00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:43.180
+But yeah, if you need to draw,
+
+00:07:43.940 --> 00:07:44.440
+if you need to highlight,
+
+00:07:45.820 --> 00:07:46.320
+it is pretty complicated.
+
+00:07:48.220 --> 00:07:48.340
+Perhaps something that you might want to be
+
+00:07:50.500 --> 00:07:50.980
+interested, James, in checking out is PDF
+
+00:07:53.740 --> 00:07:54.240
+Tools, which is a way to open up a PDF in
+
+00:07:59.100 --> 00:07:59.480
+Emacs. And this allows you to have basic PDF
+
+00:08:01.320 --> 00:08:01.560
+annotations, like putting a little bit of a
+
+00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:04.200
+Nikon on it. Perhaps you've already played
+
+00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:04.860
+with it.
+
+00:08:09.440 --> 00:08:09.940
+[Speaker 1]: I have used that. PDF Tools is an incredible
+
+00:08:14.260 --> 00:08:14.540
+package but until it allows me to make a mark
+
+00:08:17.860 --> 00:08:18.260
+on the screen that shows up in a video
+
+00:08:20.540 --> 00:08:21.040
+compositor. It's not going to replace
+
+00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:21.860
+Shornal.
+
+00:08:25.200 --> 00:08:25.440
+[Speaker 0]: Definitely. Alright, moving on to the next
+
+00:08:31.580 --> 00:08:31.592
+question. Is the triple-accolade syntax an
+
+00:08:31.682 --> 00:08:31.695
+[Speaker 2]: Org Mode core feature that I missed so
+
+00:08:31.760 --> 00:08:32.220
+[Speaker 0]: far, or did you program that?
+
+00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:33.580
+And thank you for the great talk.
+
+00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:38.360
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you very much. No,
+
+00:08:42.700 --> 00:08:43.200
+it's just part of all of the export backends.
+
+00:08:44.860 --> 00:08:45.060
+Actually, I think the way it works is it
+
+00:08:46.560 --> 00:08:47.040
+precedes all of the export backends.
+
+00:08:49.820 --> 00:08:50.280
+When you export, the first thing that happens
+
+00:08:51.880 --> 00:08:52.380
+is expansion of macros.
+
+00:08:55.680 --> 00:08:56.180
+And that's a built-in org mode feature.
+
+00:08:59.280 --> 00:08:59.760
+It's definitely beyond my Emacs Lisp powers
+
+00:09:01.160 --> 00:09:01.360
+to be able to have made something that
+
+00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:06.940
+powerful. That's right.
+
+00:09:08.040 --> 00:09:08.540
+I have come a long way.
+
+00:09:10.460 --> 00:09:10.760
+[Speaker 0]: For now, for now. You know,
+
+00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:12.980
+we always, you know, most of the people who
+
+00:09:14.680 --> 00:09:15.060
+show up to Emacs, especially talking about
+
+00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:17.300
+stuff that has to do with presentations or
+
+00:09:18.420 --> 00:09:18.900
+what they do in academia,
+
+00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:19.780
+you know, they always say,
+
+00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:22.440
+oh, but, you know, I couldn't have done all
+
+00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:24.280
+this, you know, it's just far away.
+
+00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:26.280
+And then they come back 1 year or 2 years
+
+00:09:27.660 --> 00:09:27.980
+later, and then, oh, I've made my entire
+
+00:09:29.540 --> 00:09:29.700
+library for presentation and stuff like this.
+
+00:09:32.800 --> 00:09:32.980
+So Be hopeful about what the future holds for
+
+00:09:34.760 --> 00:09:34.920
+you in terms of coming up with crazy new
+
+00:09:36.300 --> 00:09:36.800
+features for the entire ecosystem.
+
+00:09:38.560 --> 00:09:39.060
+[Speaker 1]: Well, let me tell you,
+
+00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:42.540
+since the pandemic, I have written,
+
+00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:44.700
+I wrote my first major mode.
+
+00:09:46.520 --> 00:09:47.020
+It's trivial, but it provides functionality
+
+00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:50.080
+that is very useful to me.
+
+00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:53.940
+And it's going to sound like I'm just trying
+
+00:09:54.760 --> 00:09:54.960
+to butter everyone up,
+
+00:09:57.620 --> 00:09:58.120
+but seeing a lot of the names in the IRC
+
+00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:01.860
+channel, people who have taught me so much on
+
+00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:05.640
+their YouTube channels and in their blog
+
+00:10:07.400 --> 00:10:07.900
+posts and on Reddit and on Mastodon.
+
+00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:12.220
+Without many of the people who are here today
+
+00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:15.320
+watching my talk, it's very fun to have
+
+00:10:17.920 --> 00:10:18.120
+people who have helped me learn so much about
+
+00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:20.140
+Emacs. So thanks to all of you.
+
+00:10:23.820 --> 00:10:24.140
+[Speaker 0]: Well, and yeah, and now you're becoming part
+
+00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:27.380
+of this crew of people inspiring others to do
+
+00:10:28.860 --> 00:10:29.180
+very much the same. So thank you for joining
+
+00:10:32.020 --> 00:10:32.520
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you very much.
+
+00:10:34.780 --> 00:10:35.020
+[Speaker 0]: the crew. Great. Moving on to the 2 last
+
+00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:36.660
+questions and then we'll open up the mic to
+
+00:10:37.400 --> 00:10:37.900
+other people on BigBlueButton.
+
+00:10:40.760 --> 00:10:40.920
+What kind of comparative feedback are
+
+00:10:42.280 --> 00:10:42.780
+students giving you regarding your approach?
+
+00:10:47.560 --> 00:10:48.060
+[Speaker 1]: Oh my gosh. Students were ready to,
+
+00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:49.620
+during the pandemic especially,
+
+00:10:54.100 --> 00:10:54.600
+when most of the courses were just being
+
+00:10:56.660 --> 00:10:56.820
+taught over Zoom by people sharing their
+
+00:10:56.820 --> 00:10:57.320
+screens.
+
+00:10:58.520 --> 00:10:58.660
+[Speaker 0]: Just a second, sorry, sorry for the
+
+00:10:59.440 --> 00:10:59.800
+interruption, very rude interruption,
+
+00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:01.040
+but I've got the intro for the next talk
+
+00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:02.440
+playing and I'm not sure what's going on.
+
+00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:03.620
+Give me just a second.
+
+00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:04.940
+Sasha?
+
+00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:20.340
+So... Yeah, I think it's started.
+
+00:11:37.020 --> 00:11:37.300
+Sure. I got the times wrong,
+
+00:11:38.900 --> 00:11:39.100
+apparently, because of the little delay we
+
+00:11:41.880 --> 00:11:42.380
+had getting the audio fixed up.
+
+00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:44.720
+The good news is that we're still recording
+
+00:11:46.400 --> 00:11:46.680
+the talk right now and we still have James
+
+00:11:47.560 --> 00:11:47.800
+around. Obviously, James,
+
+00:11:50.280 --> 00:11:50.440
+you're no longer on being broadcast on
+
+00:11:53.040 --> 00:11:53.440
+General, but if you want to keep answering
+
+00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:55.520
+questions or if you want to,
+
+00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:57.360
+anyone in the room right now wants to ask you
+
+00:11:58.440 --> 00:11:58.940
+questions, feel free to do so.
+
+00:12:00.920 --> 00:12:01.080
+I'm going to need to hop off because I need
+
+00:12:02.560 --> 00:12:03.060
+to get other things ready for the next talks,
+
+00:12:04.820 --> 00:12:05.320
+[Speaker 1]: But James,
+
+00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:09.120
+[Speaker 0]: sadly. great. And sorry,
+
+00:12:10.040 --> 00:12:10.380
+I'm a little tense, obviously,
+
+00:12:12.680 --> 00:12:13.180
+because I was not expecting this to happen.
+
+00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:16.160
+And that led to a very abrupt end to this
+
+00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:18.480
+discussion. But people afterwards on
+
+00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:21.980
+emacsmo.org slash 2023 slash talks will be
+
+00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:24.020
+able to find all the content here.
+
+00:12:24.920 --> 00:12:25.420
+So I'll have to leave now.
+
+00:12:26.660 --> 00:12:26.980
+Thank you so much, James,
+
+00:12:29.020 --> 00:12:29.180
+for doing the difficult task of opening up
+
+00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:31.980
+emacs-conf, And I'll probably see you later.
+
+00:12:34.660 --> 00:12:35.160
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you, Leo. Bye-bye.
+
+00:12:54.380 --> 00:12:54.880
+[Speaker 3]: On your, the external,
+
+00:12:59.920 --> 00:13:00.340
+the journal You were, you,
+
+00:13:03.040 --> 00:13:03.520
+you were using the tablet as a monitor,
+
+00:13:04.540 --> 00:13:05.040
+right? Touchscreen monitor,
+
+00:13:05.380 --> 00:13:05.880
+what's that?
+
+00:13:07.160 --> 00:13:07.480
+[Speaker 1]: program. Yes. That's exactly right.
+
+00:13:10.040 --> 00:13:10.540
+So it's a tablet, so it has a touchscreen.
+
+00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:15.580
+And so basically the functionality that that
+
+00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:20.560
+program provides is to be able to just mark
+
+00:13:21.660 --> 00:13:22.160
+up PDFs with a stylus,
+
+00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:25.280
+you know, in the way that you would use any
+
+00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:30.640
+other tablet. And to be able to take that
+
+00:13:32.920 --> 00:13:33.420
+video signal and put it into another machine.
+
+00:13:35.640 --> 00:13:36.100
+That was the that was the key.
+
+00:13:36.900 --> 00:13:37.400
+That's the killer app.
+
+00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:41.940
+[Speaker 3]: I've thought about grabbing 1 for the purpose
+
+00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:45.420
+of like changing my laptop into a tablet to
+
+00:13:47.640 --> 00:13:48.140
+read manga, browse the web,
+
+00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:51.020
+and I'm kind of curious if it works well like
+
+00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:53.600
+as a wireless monitor with a tablet?
+
+00:13:59.820 --> 00:14:00.060
+Or how well it like you can use Emacs with it
+
+00:14:04.020 --> 00:14:04.200
+in a tablet mode? Or were you just or you
+
+00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:04.900
+just use
+
+00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:12.040
+[Speaker 1]: the tablet that I use is this is it it's just
+
+00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:15.020
+the Microsoft Surface and so it comes with a
+
+00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:18.700
+keyboard So you can take the keyboard off.
+
+00:14:22.760 --> 00:14:23.260
+But I use it with the keyboard as well.
+
+00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:25.740
+And I just.
+
+00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:31.500
+[Speaker 3]: You're cutting off right now.
+
+00:14:33.680 --> 00:14:34.180
+Audio.
+
+00:14:45.660 --> 00:14:46.160
+Your audio is cutting off right now.
+
+00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:32.240
+How about now? Now I can hear you.
+
+00:15:33.820 --> 00:15:33.960
+[Speaker 1]: How about now? I bumped the mute button on
+
+00:15:37.420 --> 00:15:37.740
+the mic. Yeah, so again,
+
+00:15:38.680 --> 00:15:38.940
+this is... I'm trying to figure out which
+
+00:15:41.020 --> 00:15:41.520
+[Speaker 3]: of the 16 mute buttons you used.
+
+00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:46.200
+[Speaker 1]: It's just the Surface Pro 3 that I got used.
+
+00:15:52.920 --> 00:15:53.300
+And it runs Emacs, I mean it runs GNU Linux
+
+00:15:58.740 --> 00:15:58.980
+really well. And the trouble is that the hard
+
+00:16:01.900 --> 00:16:02.220
+drive, you know, the SSD drive is small and
+
+00:16:06.260 --> 00:16:06.420
+the RAM is small, but it works for the
+
+00:16:09.340 --> 00:16:09.640
+purposes. Basically, if I had a couple
+
+00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:13.260
+thousand dollars, I could probably buy a
+
+00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:16.560
+touch screen machine or I could run
+
+00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:19.200
+everything on it and do the streaming and do
+
+00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:25.460
+the video capture and do the PDF markup.
+
+00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:28.480
+But since both of these are so,
+
+00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:31.960
+the hardware that I use is so old and cheap
+
+00:16:33.640 --> 00:16:33.840
+and weak, I'd have to split it across 2
+
+00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:34.340
+machines.
+
+00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:37.660
+[Speaker 3]: There's also a beauty in making the stuff,
+
+00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:40.120
+having specific purposes for specific things
+
+00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:44.160
+where it's just not, yeah,
+
+00:16:47.980 --> 00:16:48.320
+it's like, I don't want a smart TV that plays
+
+00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:52.540
+Netflix. I want a Smart TV that has all the
+
+00:16:55.520 --> 00:16:55.760
+smarts that I turn my smart TV into a TV
+
+00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:56.620
+monitor. I
+
+00:17:01.020 --> 00:17:01.520
+[Speaker 1]: Don't want to yeah Really?
+
+00:17:04.526 --> 00:17:04.540
+I I totally feel that ethic I totally feel
+
+00:17:04.859 --> 00:17:05.359
+that ethic.
+
+00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:13.940
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, on the some other things,
+
+00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:16.440
+like if you want you To do highlighting in an
+
+00:17:18.560 --> 00:17:19.060
+org mode document you can use org web tools.
+
+00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:20.880
+I wrote this in the notes But you can use org
+
+00:17:23.560 --> 00:17:23.720
+web tools to download a web page And then you
+
+00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:26.980
+can use org remark to start highlighting in
+
+00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:29.700
+the org mode web page And then because it's
+
+00:17:30.600 --> 00:17:30.740
+an org mode document now,
+
+00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:33.100
+[Speaker 1]: right
+
+00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:36.280
+[Speaker 3]: you can just edit it directly If you have If
+
+00:17:38.300 --> 00:17:38.760
+you want other people to join in on an emacs
+
+00:17:40.520 --> 00:17:41.020
+session you could use a package like,
+
+00:17:44.540 --> 00:17:45.040
+what's it called, crdt.el
+
+00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:50.160
+That will allow 2 people with 2 different
+
+00:17:52.320 --> 00:17:52.820
+Emacs configurations to edit the same buffer.
+
+00:17:58.460 --> 00:17:58.580
+What? And you have a host that can host a
+
+00:18:00.620 --> 00:18:01.120
+[Speaker 1]: Interesting.
+
+00:18:05.500 --> 00:18:06.000
+[Speaker 3]: buffer too. And they have 1 optional
+
+00:18:07.700 --> 00:18:08.200
+extension for org mode that will synchronize
+
+00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:10.640
+the folding of the org drawers.
+
+00:18:14.260 --> 00:18:14.760
+[Speaker 1]: Interesting, I will look into that.
+
+00:18:21.620 --> 00:18:22.120
+[Speaker 3]: Like having I don't like if you want students
+
+00:18:24.780 --> 00:18:25.280
+like you have H highlight line mode.
+
+00:18:26.120 --> 00:18:26.620
+These are just some ideas.
+
+00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:28.420
+It's like you can have like highlight line
+
+00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:31.540
+mode so people can easily see which line
+
+00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:33.400
+you're on cursor tracking.
+
+00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:37.180
+And then you can have other people join in,
+
+00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:41.320
+students, or yeah, that's just a possible
+
+00:18:41.320 --> 00:18:41.820
+idea.
+
+00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:50.000
+[Speaker 1]: Is there anyone else in the big blue button
+
+00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:52.180
+room who has a question?
+
+00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:03.280
+All right, I'm going to go over to the pad
+
+00:19:05.140 --> 00:19:05.280
+and see if there are any pending questions I
+
+00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:11.780
+can address. Thanks PlasmaStrike.
+
+00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:13.480
+Yep.
+
+00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:30.060
+[Speaker 2]: To be tangled into source code or woven into
+
+00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:33.220
+a documentation file, which could be PDF,
+
+00:19:36.140 --> 00:19:36.640
+could be Markdown, could be OpenOffice,
+
+00:19:39.600 --> 00:19:40.100
+could be a notebook format.
+
+00:19:42.860 --> 00:19:43.260
+This methodology was conceived by Donald
+
+00:19:51.460 --> 00:19:51.940
+Knuth in 1984. The main purpose of literal
+
+00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:54.660
+programming is not only to make code or
+
+00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:57.220
+documentation or output more manageable,
+
+00:20:01.020 --> 00:20:01.220
+but to allow humans to create a data story to
+
+00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:03.460
+be pieced from a single source.
+
+00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:06.340
+What you see on the slide on the left hand
+
+00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:09.380
+side is the story and code inside an org-mod
+
+00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:14.440
+file. The file starts with some
+
+00:20:17.260 --> 00:20:17.760
+documentation, then you write back down the
+
+00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:22.080
+code, and at the bottom you see an output
+
+00:20:26.040 --> 00:20:26.500
+file, which is not shown in the slide itself.
+
+00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:28.440
+In the middle, you have the source code,
+
+00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:34.000
+which is the result of tangling or opening a
+
+00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:36.900
+buffer inside offload.
+
+00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:38.940
+On the very right-hand side,
+
+00:20:42.540 --> 00:20:42.840
+we have a PDF. Actually,
+
+00:20:44.100 --> 00:20:44.600
+this is HTML, random.org.
+
+00:20:48.120 --> 00:20:48.420
+The very same file that you see in the memory
+
+00:20:52.360 --> 00:20:52.600
+language. So the humans look at some of this
+
+00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:54.720
+code, and the machines look at other parts of
+
+00:20:57.600 --> 00:20:58.040
+the code. I actually did all my programming
+
+00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:00.260
+in the literate way even in the early 1990s,
+
+00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:02.980
+not using OrgMode, which didn't exist yet,
+
+00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:06.160
+but using Norman Ramsey's NoWeb preprocessor.
+
+00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:09.720
+They still use it inside Org Mode today.
+
+00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:11.900
+This preprocessor, NoWeb,
+
+00:21:14.260 --> 00:21:14.480
+allows you to tangle code from within an Org
+
+00:21:16.020 --> 00:21:16.360
+Mode file that is a self-standing file,
+
+00:21:18.320 --> 00:21:18.820
+much like Org Mode's edit functions,
+
+00:21:21.520 --> 00:21:21.860
+which export code blocks into buffers in
+
+00:21:23.100 --> 00:21:23.600
+whatever language the code blocks.
+
+00:21:28.260 --> 00:21:28.760
+In data science, these interactive notebooks,
+
+00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:31.400
+in 1 of the interpreted languages,
+
+00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:33.400
+like Julia, Python, or R,
+
+00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:37.040
+dominate. The basic technology is that of
+
+00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:39.340
+Jupyter notebooks, which take their name from
+
+00:21:42.540 --> 00:21:42.900
+Julia, Python, and R. And these notebooks use
+
+00:21:43.780 --> 00:21:44.200
+a spruce-stuffed shell,
+
+00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:47.860
+for example, IPython, and an option to add
+
+00:21:52.540 --> 00:21:52.940
+SQL cells. Alt mode inside Emacs has a large
+
+00:21:55.840 --> 00:21:56.260
+number of advantages. Some of them are listed
+
+00:21:56.980 --> 00:21:57.480
+here over these notebooks.
+
+00:21:59.160 --> 00:21:59.660
+2 of these stand out particularly.
+
+00:22:02.860 --> 00:22:03.360
+Different languages can be mixed,
+
+00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:05.640
+as shown in the image.
+
+00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:07.700
+While in Jupyter notebooks,
+
+00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:10.880
+a notebook is limited to running a kernel in
+
+00:22:13.940 --> 00:22:14.440
+1 language only. The content of the notebook,
+
+00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:16.560
+its document code or output part,
+
+00:22:18.520 --> 00:22:18.680
+can be exported in a variety of forms.
+
+00:22:18.735 --> 00:22:18.790
+[Speaker 3]: We are
+
+00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:19.840
+[Speaker 2]: currently the only person in this
+
+00:22:21.020 --> 00:22:21.520
+conference... ...To share with others,
+
+00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:24.160
+to use one's work in different reports...
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..034faf8b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,3361 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:00.980
+[Speaker 0]: Dictation.
+
+00:00:06.020 --> 00:00:06.520
+[Speaker 1]: Right. All right I think we are live now.
+
+00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:09.179
+The stream is here. So folks if you would
+
+00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:11.820
+please post your questions on the pad and
+
+00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:13.759
+we'll take them up here.
+
+00:00:20.500 --> 00:00:21.000
+[Speaker 0]: Boy so I don't have myself set up with the
+
+00:00:25.140 --> 00:00:25.279
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, I can read the questions to you if you
+
+00:00:26.939 --> 00:00:27.439
+[Speaker 0]: pad. That would be fantastic.
+
+00:00:27.900 --> 00:00:28.400
+Thank you.
+
+00:00:28.779 --> 00:00:29.220
+[Speaker 1]: would prefer that. Sure.
+
+00:00:29.220 --> 00:00:29.720
+Thanks.
+
+00:00:58.380 --> 00:00:58.500
+[Speaker 0]: Well, for the purpose of breaking the ice a
+
+00:01:01.400 --> 00:01:01.620
+little bit, I can provide a live
+
+00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:04.340
+demonstration of the use of this Voice In
+
+00:01:06.300 --> 00:01:06.800
+plugin for Google Chrome.
+
+00:01:11.080 --> 00:01:11.580
+So I have, let's see, say new sentence.
+
+00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:20.900
+I'm on a website that is called 750 words.
+
+00:01:25.080 --> 00:01:25.520
+It provides a text area where without any
+
+00:01:30.580 --> 00:01:30.760
+other distracting icons for the purpose of
+
+00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:34.200
+writing and I'm using it for the purpose of
+
+00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:38.960
+capturing my words that I'm dictating and I
+
+00:01:42.979 --> 00:01:43.420
+have enabled the Voice In plugin by hitting
+
+00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:48.780
+the option L command. New sentence.
+
+00:01:54.479 --> 00:01:54.960
+So it interpreted that command new sentence
+
+00:01:56.260 --> 00:01:56.760
+even though I didn't pronounce it correctly,
+
+00:01:59.440 --> 00:01:59.820
+which is a pretty good demonstration of its
+
+00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:01.420
+accuracy. New sentence.
+
+00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:06.820
+Oops, that didn't work.
+
+00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:15.200
+Undo. New sentence. So new sentence is a
+
+00:02:16.040 --> 00:02:16.540
+combination of 2 commands,
+
+00:02:23.820 --> 00:02:24.080
+period and new line. So I've found it more
+
+00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:26.260
+convenient just to say new sentence than
+
+00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:28.940
+having to say period and new line.
+
+00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:34.220
+You can see that it's able to keep up with
+
+00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:42.340
+most of my speech, and it has to interpret
+
+00:02:44.760 --> 00:02:45.140
+the sounds that I'm making and convert those
+
+00:02:47.600 --> 00:02:47.860
+into words, so there's always going to be a
+
+00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:00.080
+lag. New sentence. But I've found that I can
+
+00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:03.220
+generate about 2,000, up to 2,000
+
+00:03:07.040 --> 00:03:07.540
+words an hour as I gather my thoughts and
+
+00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:11.460
+talk in my rather slow fashion of speaking.
+
+00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:16.220
+New sentence, if you're a really fast
+
+00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:19.060
+speaker, it might have trouble keeping up.
+
+00:03:30.860 --> 00:03:31.080
+New sentence. I like to write When I'm using
+
+00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:34.860
+the keyboard with 1 sentence per line,
+
+00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:39.020
+so that when I copy my text and paste it into
+
+00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:43.840
+Emacs, for example, I can resort the
+
+00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:47.600
+sentences very easily by just selecting 1
+
+00:03:50.600 --> 00:03:51.100
+line at a time. I like to keep the sentences
+
+00:03:53.480 --> 00:03:53.980
+unwrapped in that fashion because that
+
+00:03:56.320 --> 00:03:56.820
+greatly eases the rewriting phase.
+
+00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:01.580
+And I'm almost have sort of a hybrid reverse
+
+00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:03.660
+outlining approach by doing that.
+
+00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:14.680
+New sentence. Looks like I have gotten ahead
+
+00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:18.579
+of it a bit and it has not kept up.
+
+00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:22.060
+But generally, it does keep up pretty well.
+
+00:04:26.180 --> 00:04:26.680
+[Speaker 1]: Nice. Thanks for the demo.
+
+00:04:30.380 --> 00:04:30.880
+Let's see. I think we have.
+
+00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:31.980
+Yeah, sorry.
+
+00:04:33.520 --> 00:04:34.020
+[Speaker 0]: You're welcome. Go ahead.
+
+00:04:42.380 --> 00:04:42.880
+You can see that it has this EN means English
+
+00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:47.180
+and then dash US. There's actually about 40
+
+00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:48.500
+languages that it supports,
+
+00:04:52.280 --> 00:04:52.720
+including several variants of German and
+
+00:04:54.640 --> 00:04:55.140
+about a dozen English dialects.
+
+00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:05.380
+[Speaker 1]: Nice. Let's see, I think we have some
+
+00:05:06.860 --> 00:05:07.360
+comments and questions trickling in.
+
+00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:11.320
+So someone is saying that there is a text to
+
+00:05:14.700 --> 00:05:15.200
+command application or utility called Clipia,
+
+00:05:19.395 --> 00:05:19.472
+C-L-I-P-I-A, that they think is awesome.
+
+00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:20.360
+Clipia that they think is awesome.
+
+00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:25.460
+And someone else is also saying that Sox,
+
+00:05:27.180 --> 00:05:27.680
+S-O-X is another good alternative.
+
+00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:34.920
+[Speaker 0]: I've not explored those yet.
+
+00:05:36.740 --> 00:05:37.240
+So thank you very much for the suggestions.
+
+00:05:42.700 --> 00:05:43.000
+[Speaker 1]: So I'll... I just dropped a link to the pad
+
+00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:45.520
+page here in the chat and on the big blue
+
+00:05:47.320 --> 00:05:47.820
+button if you'd like to open that up as well.
+
+00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:50.460
+But I'll continue reading the comments and
+
+00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:54.640
+questions. So the first question,
+
+00:05:56.420 --> 00:05:56.920
+I guess, is that could you comment on how
+
+00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:02.080
+speaking versus typing affects your logic or
+
+00:06:03.260 --> 00:06:03.760
+the content, quote unquote,
+
+00:06:05.020 --> 00:06:05.520
+that you write?
+
+00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:10.820
+[Speaker 0]: I find that this is like the difference
+
+00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:16.080
+between writing your thoughts down on a blank
+
+00:06:18.640 --> 00:06:19.140
+piece of printer paper versus paper bound
+
+00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:21.600
+with a leather notebook.
+
+00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:24.800
+I don't think there's any real difference.
+
+00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:28.380
+I know that some people believe there is a
+
+00:06:29.540 --> 00:06:30.040
+solid certain difference,
+
+00:06:32.580 --> 00:06:32.980
+But this is for the purpose,
+
+00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:35.040
+I'm using this for the purpose of generating
+
+00:06:40.340 --> 00:06:40.720
+the first draft because my skills with using
+
+00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:44.440
+my voice to edit my text is still not very
+
+00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:46.740
+well developed. I'm still more efficient
+
+00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:49.620
+using the keyboard for that stage.
+
+00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:52.700
+So the hardest part about writing generally
+
+00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:55.660
+is getting the first crappy draft written.
+
+00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:00.160
+And so I have found that dictation is
+
+00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:01.980
+perfectly fine for that phase.
+
+00:07:07.060 --> 00:07:07.200
+And I find it actually very conducive for
+
+00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:09.980
+just getting the text out.
+
+00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:13.680
+The biggest problem that most of us have is
+
+00:07:15.080 --> 00:07:15.580
+applying our internal editor.
+
+00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:20.460
+And that inhibits us from generating words in
+
+00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:22.100
+a free-flowing fashion.
+
+00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:26.500
+So I generally do my generative writing.
+
+00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:28.940
+So actually I divide my writing into 2
+
+00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:30.740
+categories, generative writing,
+
+00:07:32.320 --> 00:07:32.820
+generating the first crappy draft,
+
+00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:36.300
+and then rewriting. Rewriting is probably 80,
+
+00:07:38.520 --> 00:07:39.020
+90% of writing where you go back and rework
+
+00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:41.100
+the order of the sentences,
+
+00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:43.980
+order of paragraphs, the order of words in a
+
+00:07:44.700 --> 00:07:45.060
+sentence and so forth.
+
+00:07:47.540 --> 00:07:47.860
+The really hard work. That's best done later
+
+00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:50.240
+in the day when I'm more awake.
+
+00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:52.960
+I do my general writing first thing in the
+
+00:07:55.320 --> 00:07:55.820
+morning when I feel horrible.
+
+00:07:59.440 --> 00:07:59.940
+I'm not very alert. That's when my internal
+
+00:08:03.340 --> 00:08:03.700
+editor is not very awake and I can get more
+
+00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:06.260
+words out, more words past that gatekeeper.
+
+00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:09.480
+And so I can do this sitting down,
+
+00:08:10.640 --> 00:08:10.920
+I can do this standing up,
+
+00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:13.180
+I can do this 20 feet away from my computer
+
+00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:15.600
+looking out the window to give my eyes a
+
+00:08:19.540 --> 00:08:20.040
+break. So I find it's actually very enjoyable
+
+00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:21.940
+to use it in this fashion.
+
+00:08:29.640 --> 00:08:30.140
+And the downside is that I wind up generating
+
+00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:32.919
+3 times as much text, and that makes for 3
+
+00:08:35.140 --> 00:08:35.640
+times as much work when it comes to rewriting
+
+00:08:39.780 --> 00:08:39.940
+the text. And that means I'm using the
+
+00:08:45.040 --> 00:08:45.200
+keyboard a lot later on in the day and I
+
+00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:47.920
+haven't made any progress on recovering from
+
+00:08:49.760 --> 00:08:50.260
+my own repetitive stress injury.
+
+00:08:56.880 --> 00:08:57.240
+I hope that I will add the use of voice
+
+00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:00.220
+commands, speech to commands,
+
+00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:03.300
+for editing the text in the future.
+
+00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:07.040
+And I'll eventually give my hands more of a
+
+00:09:07.040 --> 00:09:07.540
+break.
+
+00:09:12.280 --> 00:09:12.600
+[Speaker 1]: Right. Thanks. Yeah, that sounds like a nice
+
+00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:15.640
+flow of sort of being able to get your words
+
+00:09:18.740 --> 00:09:18.940
+out while your internal editor is still not
+
+00:09:21.220 --> 00:09:21.720
+inhibiting things. And then later in the day
+
+00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:25.520
+or days, get back to the actual rewriting and
+
+00:09:25.520 --> 00:09:26.020
+editing.
+
+00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:31.720
+[Speaker 0]: Cool. So this allows you to actually separate
+
+00:09:33.640 --> 00:09:34.140
+those 2 activities, not only by time.
+
+00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:37.200
+So many professional writers will spend
+
+00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:39.140
+several hours in the morning doing the
+
+00:09:41.040 --> 00:09:41.120
+generative part and then they'll spend the
+
+00:09:41.920 --> 00:09:42.420
+rest of the day rewriting.
+
+00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.500
+So they have separated those 2 activities
+
+00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:49.540
+temporally. What most people actually do is,
+
+00:09:51.540 --> 00:09:51.700
+you know, they do the generative part and
+
+00:09:53.300 --> 00:09:53.560
+then they write 1 sentence and they apply
+
+00:09:55.460 --> 00:09:55.640
+that internal editor right away because they
+
+00:09:57.720 --> 00:09:58.220
+want to write the first draft in a perfect,
+
+00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:02.560
+as a perfect version as the final draft And
+
+00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:04.340
+that slows them down dramatically.
+
+00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:08.400
+But this also allows you to separate these 2
+
+00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.820
+activities in terms of modality.
+
+00:10:13.940 --> 00:10:14.120
+You're going to do the generative writing by
+
+00:10:16.560 --> 00:10:17.060
+voice and the rewriting by keyboard.
+
+00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:22.480
+So I think this is 1 way that many people can
+
+00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:26.540
+get into using speech to text in a productive
+
+00:10:26.640 --> 00:10:27.140
+way.
+
+00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:30.980
+[Speaker 1]: Nice. Yeah, that sounds great.
+
+00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:34.200
+Let's see. I think we have about 3 or 4
+
+00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:37.960
+minutes live. So I think we have time for at
+
+00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:39.060
+least another question.
+
+00:10:41.920 --> 00:10:42.180
+Have you tried the chat GPT voice chat
+
+00:10:44.540 --> 00:10:44.760
+interface? And if so, how has been your
+
+00:10:47.020 --> 00:10:47.180
+experience of it? As someone experienced with
+
+00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:48.860
+voice control, interested to hear your
+
+00:10:51.940 --> 00:10:52.180
+thoughts, performance relative to the free
+
+00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:53.460
+software tools in particular?
+
+00:10:57.180 --> 00:10:57.380
+[Speaker 0]: I don't have much experience with that
+
+00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:01.500
+particular software. I have used Whisper a
+
+00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:03.900
+little bit. And so that's related.
+
+00:11:10.260 --> 00:11:10.460
+And of course you have this problem of lag so
+
+00:11:12.800 --> 00:11:13.300
+I find that it's a whisper is good for
+
+00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:16.560
+spitting out a sentence you know maybe for a
+
+00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:20.660
+doc string in a programming file.
+
+00:11:26.060 --> 00:11:26.260
+But I find that it's very prone to
+
+00:11:30.060 --> 00:11:30.300
+hallucinations. And I find myself spending
+
+00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:33.220
+half my time deleting the hallucinations,
+
+00:11:38.700 --> 00:11:38.860
+I feel like the net gain is diminished as a
+
+00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:41.720
+result. There's not much of a net gain in
+
+00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:43.820
+terms of what I'm getting out of it.
+
+00:11:45.800 --> 00:11:45.980
+Whereas I really appreciate the high level of
+
+00:11:48.780 --> 00:11:49.280
+accuracy that I'm getting from voice-in.
+
+00:11:53.400 --> 00:11:53.900
+I would use Talon Voice for dictation,
+
+00:11:56.680 --> 00:11:57.180
+but at this point, there's a significant
+
+00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:00.740
+difference between the level of accuracy of
+
+00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:02.540
+voice-in versus Talon voice.
+
+00:12:06.260 --> 00:12:06.560
+It's large enough of a difference that I'll
+
+00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:09.020
+probably use voice-in for a while until I can
+
+00:12:12.700 --> 00:12:13.140
+figure out how to get town voice to generate
+
+00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:15.580
+more accurate text.
+
+00:12:25.400 --> 00:12:25.680
+[Speaker 1]: Cool. Thank you. I think we have at least
+
+00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:26.940
+another 2 or 3 minutes.
+
+00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:29.380
+So if folks have any other questions Please
+
+00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:31.400
+feel free to post them on the pad and I'll
+
+00:12:32.560 --> 00:12:33.060
+check IRC now as well.
+
+00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:44.840
+Right, so I see 1 question on IRC asking,
+
+00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:47.360
+Are any of these voice command slash
+
+00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:50.100
+dictating dictation tools free Libre
+
+00:12:52.260 --> 00:12:52.760
+software? They cannot find that information
+
+00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:55.080
+Which I think is part of it.
+
+00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:55.820
+You just mentioned
+
+00:12:57.280 --> 00:12:57.780
+[Speaker 0]: the voice in software.
+
+00:13:03.260 --> 00:13:03.760
+There's It's a freemium so The answer is no
+
+00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:06.140
+To be able to add the commands,
+
+00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:09.160
+the custom commands, you have to pay $48 a
+
+00:13:12.040 --> 00:13:12.540
+year. The Talon Voice software is free.
+
+00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:20.320
+And the only limitation there is access to
+
+00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:23.820
+the language model. If you want to get the
+
+00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:26.880
+beta version, you need to subscribe to
+
+00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:31.320
+Patreon to help support the developer.
+
+00:13:36.180 --> 00:13:36.460
+And I found, I did do that and I really
+
+00:13:37.400 --> 00:13:37.900
+didn't find much of an improvement.
+
+00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:43.780
+So I really don't intend to do that in the
+
+00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:47.600
+future. But otherwise,
+
+00:13:50.680 --> 00:13:51.180
+Town Voice, everything is open and free,
+
+00:13:54.380 --> 00:13:54.880
+and the Slack community is incredibly
+
+00:13:58.340 --> 00:13:58.820
+welcoming. The parallels with the Emacs
+
+00:14:00.060 --> 00:14:00.560
+community are pretty striking.
+
+00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:09.720
+[Speaker 1]: Excellent, thank you. Okay,
+
+00:14:11.800 --> 00:14:11.980
+I think we have about another minute on the
+
+00:14:13.780 --> 00:14:13.980
+live stream, but I believe the big blue
+
+00:14:16.560 --> 00:14:16.920
+button room here is open and will be open,
+
+00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:20.340
+So if folks want to join,
+
+00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:22.120
+if Blaine maybe has a couple of extra
+
+00:14:24.680 --> 00:14:24.840
+minutes. Awesome. Yeah,
+
+00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:26.760
+then you're welcome to join and chat with
+
+00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:29.480
+Blaine and ask any further questions or just
+
+00:14:30.060 --> 00:14:30.560
+do general chatting. Chatting.
+
+00:14:44.020 --> 00:14:44.380
+[Speaker 0]: So I see a question. How good is Talon
+
+00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:53.520
+compared to Whisper? So with Talon,
+
+00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:55.880
+I find that the first part of the sentence
+
+00:15:00.620 --> 00:15:00.820
+will be fairly accurate and then when I'm
+
+00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:03.980
+doing dictation And then towards the end,
+
+00:15:05.640 --> 00:15:06.140
+the errors start to accumulate.
+
+00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:09.720
+So in general, I think it's error rate is
+
+00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:13.100
+about 5 words out of a hundred or so will be
+
+00:15:17.560 --> 00:15:18.040
+wrong. And whisper, Whisper is wonderful
+
+00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:21.500
+because it will insert punctuation for you.
+
+00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:26.320
+But I guess its errors are longer and that
+
+00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:29.240
+it'll hallucinate full sentences for you.
+
+00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:35.960
+So they both have significant error rates.
+
+00:15:37.280 --> 00:15:37.780
+They're just different kinds of errors.
+
+00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:42.840
+[Speaker 1]: Interesting.
+
+00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:49.500
+[Speaker 0]: Hopefully both will improve over time.
+
+00:15:50.740 --> 00:15:51.240
+Right.
+
+00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:05.120
+Let's see. There's a question.
+
+00:16:09.060 --> 00:16:09.560
+Are the green block the author for this talk?
+
+00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880
+Not sure what that question means.
+
+00:16:19.180 --> 00:16:19.300
+[Speaker 1]: Well, there is a green block of text that's I
+
+00:16:22.540 --> 00:16:23.040
+think being generated from voice to text,
+
+00:16:25.560 --> 00:16:25.680
+speech to text. At the top of the pad,
+
+00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:27.000
+I think that's the question.
+
+00:16:40.060 --> 00:16:40.280
+[Speaker 0]: So I have this Voicens software operating on
+
+00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:43.580
+this GitHub, on this 750words.com
+
+00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:52.120
+site where I do my generative writing at the
+
+00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:57.720
+start of the day. And it just provides a text
+
+00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:00.100
+area that's free of distractions.
+
+00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:03.480
+And you can see the text that's being
+
+00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:08.540
+recorded as I talk. I haven't been saying the
+
+00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:12.700
+command new sentence, so there isn't any
+
+00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:16.480
+punctuation over our discourse.
+
+00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:24.880
+1 thing that I do at the start of the day is
+
+00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:27.940
+I like to write in LaTeX.
+
+00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:34.100
+Ultimately, that's how I store my writing.
+
+00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:38.000
+So new sentence, new sentence.
+
+00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:52.180
+See, insert start day.
+
+00:17:58.960 --> 00:17:59.460
+So This is an example of a chunk of LaTeX
+
+00:18:02.620 --> 00:18:03.120
+code. So I have some reflections on,
+
+00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:04.920
+you know, what did I wake up this morning?
+
+00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:08.160
+And how do I feel? I have reflections on the
+
+00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:10.840
+prior day in terms of what did I get done
+
+00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:12.440
+yesterday? Do I remember what I did
+
+00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:14.640
+yesterday? What happened last night?
+
+00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:17.440
+Focus of today. What's to be done today?
+
+00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:23.680
+And so on. So I actually,
+
+00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:25.340
+I think I have more down here.
+
+00:18:31.420 --> 00:18:31.680
+Then I've set up these lists so that I can
+
+00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:34.260
+expand them easily. If I say item,
+
+00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:40.900
+then the cursor shows up at the start of an
+
+00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:46.100
+item. And I have it coded so that that new
+
+00:18:48.700 --> 00:18:49.200
+phrase that I speak will start with a capital
+
+00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:52.980
+letter. As you can see,
+
+00:18:54.520 --> 00:18:55.020
+so capitalize the word and.
+
+00:19:02.860 --> 00:19:03.360
+So in spite of its rather limited command
+
+00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:06.380
+syntax, There's some, it's enough to get
+
+00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:08.400
+started and maybe in the future,
+
+00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:09.860
+they'll add more features.
+
+00:19:14.540 --> 00:19:15.040
+[Speaker 1]: Cool, that's neat.
+
+00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:21.940
+[Speaker 0]: So I think this is very helpful for,
+
+00:19:28.840 --> 00:19:29.040
+you know, doing things like expanding the
+
+00:19:32.780 --> 00:19:32.980
+names of people. So you can do set up
+
+00:19:36.100 --> 00:19:36.600
+commands like expand the name of a colleague
+
+00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:40.800
+to go from their first name to their full
+
+00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:43.260
+name with a proper spelling of their last
+
+00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:45.360
+name, which, you know,
+
+00:19:47.420 --> 00:19:47.640
+you can wind up spending a lot of time trying
+
+00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:53.640
+to look that up. And so this voice in with
+
+00:19:57.560 --> 00:19:57.880
+the custom commands enables you to store hard
+
+00:19:59.540 --> 00:20:00.040
+to remember information like that.
+
+00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:08.540
+[Speaker 1]: Great. I see another question.
+
+00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:11.580
+How good is Talon compared to Whisper?
+
+00:20:13.140 --> 00:20:13.480
+I think you might have answered that already,
+
+00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:14.880
+at least partially, but...
+
+00:20:19.860 --> 00:20:20.080
+[Speaker 0]: Right, yeah. I talked about how it seems that
+
+00:20:22.580 --> 00:20:23.080
+Whisperer will carry out hallucinations,
+
+00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:26.780
+so it will generate long tracks of error,
+
+00:20:30.340 --> 00:20:30.580
+whereas Talon will tend to generate more
+
+00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:32.460
+errors towards the ends of sentences,
+
+00:20:36.820 --> 00:20:36.960
+in my experience. And the errors are
+
+00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:38.460
+generally shorter in extent.
+
+00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:42.680
+It doesn't hallucinate for long tracks.
+
+00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:51.040
+[Speaker 1]: Great. Okay, I think that's all the questions
+
+00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:52.260
+that we have on the pad.
+
+00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:55.020
+If folks want to join here on Big Blue Button
+
+00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:57.180
+for a few minutes and chat with Blaine,
+
+00:21:00.260 --> 00:21:00.480
+that also works. Let's see,
+
+00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:02.240
+I'm probably going to have to drop in a few
+
+00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:04.400
+minutes to catch the next speaker.
+
+00:21:07.860 --> 00:21:08.100
+But many thanks, Blaine,
+
+00:21:09.520 --> 00:21:09.900
+for a great talk and for the interesting
+
+00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:11.680
+demos and the question and answer.
+
+00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:15.200
+[Speaker 0]: Thank you very much for hosting this.
+
+00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:17.140
+[Speaker 1]: I appreciate it. glad to have you.
+
+00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:25.960
+[Speaker 0]: Cheers, Yeah, this is really amazing to hold
+
+00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:29.020
+this conference with people from all around
+
+00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:34.940
+the world connected together through web
+
+00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:35.440
+browsers.
+
+00:21:41.020 --> 00:21:41.260
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it's very neat what technology can do
+
+00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:42.900
+if and when it's working correctly.
+
+00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:47.860
+[Speaker 0]: I know it can be a little frustrating at
+
+00:21:48.760 --> 00:21:49.120
+times, but when it's working,
+
+00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:55.240
+it's wonderful. Yep.
+
+NOTE Start of section to review
+
+00:21:59.540 --> 00:21:59.700
+[Speaker 2]: Good purpose of computers is all the
+
+00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:01.600
+computers run the same code,
+
+00:22:03.460 --> 00:22:03.860
+so that people, you know,
+
+00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:06.240
+a lot of people work on the same thing and
+
+00:22:08.360 --> 00:22:08.860
+build upon each other's works.
+
+00:22:16.460 --> 00:22:16.960
+For journaling I found 1 good compromise
+
+00:22:18.204 --> 00:22:18.428
+between editing and stream-of-thought
+
+00:22:19.548 --> 00:22:19.772
+journaling. 1 good compromise between editing
+
+00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:21.180
+and stream of thought journaling.
+
+00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:24.120
+1 good compromise between editing and being
+
+00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:27.480
+able to do it again and just kind of helps me
+
+00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:31.320
+do my thoughts even when I do it is when you
+
+00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:33.340
+do org mode and you have the bullets it kind
+
+00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:35.680
+of allows you to naturally chart your
+
+00:22:38.800 --> 00:22:39.300
+thoughts in a way that's really easy to edit
+
+00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:42.380
+reorder I saw you kind of did that with your
+
+00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:47.280
+mac la tech macro where you said item and it
+
+00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:49.180
+would put you down to the next item.
+
+00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:57.000
+Does... How much do you do stuff like that?
+
+00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:01.000
+How much do you do stuff like that where you
+
+00:23:04.700 --> 00:23:05.200
+use like org mode headings and then you
+
+00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:07.200
+reorder them because like I did that with
+
+00:23:10.080 --> 00:23:10.460
+also the K outline from HyperBolt package for
+
+00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:15.420
+the for Emacs org mode later on after the
+
+00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:22.060
+[Speaker 0]: stream. Yes. So I could actually set this up
+
+00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:27.300
+so I have a lot of snippets for Org Mode.
+
+00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:31.160
+I could have Org Mode version of my insert
+
+00:23:34.600 --> 00:23:34.780
+start day snippet and carry things out in org
+
+00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:40.420
+mode. So I use org mode from time to time.
+
+00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:43.980
+I often use it for the purpose of writing
+
+00:23:47.780 --> 00:23:48.060
+readme files for projects to outline the
+
+00:23:48.700 --> 00:23:49.200
+purpose of the project,
+
+00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:55.320
+and say for a director that contains a coding
+
+00:24:01.620 --> 00:24:02.120
+project. And I think this would,
+
+00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:07.700
+so the main limitation of VoiceIn is it only
+
+00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.760
+works in a web page and you have to have an
+
+00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:14.640
+Internet connection, whereas Talon voice is
+
+00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:17.720
+perfect for something like org mode in that
+
+00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:20.460
+you don't need an internet connection and it
+
+00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:23.100
+will operate anywhere that you can place a
+
+00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:24.960
+cursor. I haven't found a place where it
+
+00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:27.260
+doesn't work. It's amazing.
+
+00:24:28.860 --> 00:24:29.360
+So as you saw my talk,
+
+00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:35.560
+perhaps You can run it in a terminal or a
+
+00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:38.760
+remote computer. You can run it in a virtual
+
+00:24:44.120 --> 00:24:44.380
+[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, it's definitely.
+
+00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:46.260
+[Speaker 0]: machine. If you can put your cursor there,
+
+00:24:50.820 --> 00:24:51.320
+it will work. And so as you might imagine,
+
+00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:53.220
+if you use bash aliases,
+
+00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:56.200
+I've worked for, 1 of the first things I did
+
+00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:00.920
+was map Talend commands to bash aliases so
+
+00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.300
+that I can do all kinds of crazy things
+
+00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:04.700
+inside of the terminal.
+
+00:25:12.040 --> 00:25:12.260
+And there are, you know,
+
+00:25:15.260 --> 00:25:15.660
+there's some support already for using Talon
+
+00:25:20.280 --> 00:25:20.780
+in Emacs. There's some Emacs functionality
+
+00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:22.460
+that's built into Talon.
+
+00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:25.660
+So when you are in Emacs,
+
+00:25:27.100 --> 00:25:27.600
+there's some features that are automatically
+
+00:25:30.520 --> 00:25:31.020
+available. And then others have developed or
+
+00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:32.820
+are developing packages,
+
+00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:35.080
+which I don't think are available yet in
+
+00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:40.680
+ELPA. There's 1 that does the font locking or
+
+00:25:42.780 --> 00:25:43.280
+syntax highlighting of Talon files,
+
+00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:46.720
+and another that adds some additional
+
+00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:50.880
+functionality that I'm regrettably not yet
+
+00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:51.940
+familiar with.
+
+00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:55.940
+[Speaker 2]: Well, as an example with like how the
+
+00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:57.100
+sharding of the thoughts,
+
+00:25:59.800 --> 00:26:00.140
+like let's say, oh, how has my day went?
+
+00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:03.080
+It's went good for reasons 123,
+
+00:26:04.860 --> 00:26:05.740
+and bad for reasons ABC.
+
+00:26:07.828 --> 00:26:07.872
+And then later on, I might think,
+
+00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:08.860
+oh, there's an, I also,
+
+00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:11.780
+my day went good for reasons 456,
+
+00:26:14.540 --> 00:26:14.880
+then you, I can, then you jump up.
+
+00:26:18.520 --> 00:26:18.820
+And so the, like I found like,
+
+00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:20.260
+yeah, the org mode subheadings,
+
+00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:22.480
+because you're able to jump around,
+
+00:26:25.040 --> 00:26:25.540
+easily reorder them after the fact,
+
+00:26:32.520 --> 00:26:32.860
+the very streamlined approach to the stream
+
+00:26:33.620 --> 00:26:34.120
+of thought and the editing.
+
+00:26:38.800 --> 00:26:39.300
+[Speaker 0]: That's right, extremely powerful.
+
+00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:41.500
+[Speaker 2]: And even with the stream of thought,
+
+00:26:44.060 --> 00:26:44.480
+just because like, even when you're editing
+
+00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:45.380
+that in real time, like,
+
+00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:47.800
+oh, wait a minute, I thought of another
+
+00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:49.200
+reason that my day went good,
+
+00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:50.820
+even though I was talking about how it was
+
+00:26:52.760 --> 00:26:53.260
+going bad now. So you jump up.
+
+00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.180
+And then you do that. And then you have it.
+
+00:26:59.540 --> 00:27:00.040
+You easily summarize your thoughts and
+
+00:27:00.060 --> 00:27:00.560
+whatnot.
+
+00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:07.600
+[Speaker 0]: That's right. And I think org mode is really
+
+00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:12.180
+ideal for that kind of interact.
+
+00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:15.480
+So yeah, I see your point in terms of that
+
+00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:19.260
+sort of a blend of generative writing and
+
+00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:23.940
+editing. And it's also kind of parallel to
+
+00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:27.660
+mind mapping. I use this mind mapping
+
+00:27:32.660 --> 00:27:33.160
+software called iThoughtsX where I'll
+
+00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:37.260
+generate all these children items,
+
+00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:40.540
+and then I'll drag them around and resort
+
+00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:47.180
+them. And they can have children of their own
+
+00:27:48.940 --> 00:27:49.400
+and grandchildren and so on,
+
+00:27:50.800 --> 00:27:51.300
+in terms of the levels of the nodes.
+
+00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:55.240
+And it's pretty much the same sort of thing
+
+00:27:57.560 --> 00:27:57.960
+with a nested hierarchy that you can have
+
+00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:03.040
+with org mode. I think having several
+
+00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:10.120
+alternate modes or modalities of playing with
+
+00:28:13.100 --> 00:28:13.300
+thoughts is useful. So sometimes I'll hit a
+
+00:28:17.180 --> 00:28:17.680
+wall and we're just not really generating
+
+00:28:21.260 --> 00:28:21.760
+anything in a text mode.
+
+00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:25.500
+But if I switch to using the mind mapping,
+
+00:28:30.040 --> 00:28:30.420
+just seeing it arranged with the connecting
+
+00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:35.280
+lines plays on a different part of the brain,
+
+00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:38.140
+I think, and it can be incredibly
+
+00:28:40.600 --> 00:28:40.800
+stimulatory. It can stimulate a lot of new
+
+00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:43.780
+[Speaker 2]: That's something that I haven't messed around
+
+00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:45.900
+too much with is the mind mapping software,
+
+00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:46.480
+but...
+
+00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:51.760
+[Speaker 0]: thoughts. Because the closest thing that we
+
+00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:56.600
+have to it in Emacs is Orgrimm in the in
+
+00:29:00.860 --> 00:29:01.360
+terms of like the 3D visualization of with
+
+00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:04.220
+Orgrimm GUI or
+
+00:29:10.120 --> 00:29:10.620
+[Speaker 2]: UI. As well as being able to generate SVG
+
+00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:13.100
+diagrams and stuff like that,
+
+00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:17.260
+I think those 2 things would allow you stuff
+
+00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:20.740
+like Orgrimm or denote And then the diagrams
+
+00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:23.300
+would be the good ways of doing that in
+
+00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:25.600
+Emacs, but they don't have the mind map
+
+00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:27.660
+programs as well.
+
+00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:30.640
+[Speaker 0]: They're not as well developed.
+
+00:29:32.740 --> 00:29:33.240
+There are a couple mind mapping packages,
+
+00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:37.700
+but they're not as advanced.
+
+00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:42.180
+[Speaker 2]: The best ones were JavaScript web page that
+
+00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:44.340
+it that Emacs interacted with.
+
+00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:46.680
+Very well. And so they kind of,
+
+00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:49.620
+you know, worked around and had a little.
+
+00:29:51.620 --> 00:29:51.820
+Integration with the 2.
+
+00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:53.920
+So when you be jumping around your.
+
+00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:56.380
+When you'd be clicking on the web page it
+
+00:29:59.300 --> 00:29:59.480
+would be pointing you to different places and
+
+00:30:07.060 --> 00:30:07.400
+buffers okay like those are those the There's
+
+00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:11.680
+an like org-roam node program where it kind
+
+00:30:13.360 --> 00:30:13.860
+of shows the looks like a mind map.
+
+00:30:17.820 --> 00:30:18.040
+You can click and drag them a little bit,
+
+00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:19.180
+so it's a little interactive.
+
+00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:28.480
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I'm not familiar with that.
+
+00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:30.660
+I'll have to look into that.
+
+00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:32.740
+That sounds very interesting.
+
+00:30:36.820 --> 00:30:37.200
+[Speaker 2]: I found that I didn't know better,
+
+00:30:38.560 --> 00:30:39.060
+though, than Org-ROM, so it doesn't.
+
+00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:43.820
+[Speaker 0]: Why is that?
+
+00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:47.580
+[Speaker 2]: Well, 1 of the things I'm,
+
+00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:51.760
+I want to be able to, I don't like the
+
+00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:53.700
+feeling of being trapped inside org-mode
+
+00:30:56.040 --> 00:30:56.540
+documents. Like I want to be able to write,
+
+00:30:58.940 --> 00:30:59.060
+even though I don't really use Markdown and I
+
+00:31:00.800 --> 00:31:01.020
+like org-mode better than that.
+
+00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:03.220
+Like for instance, I also use the Koutline
+
+00:31:04.280 --> 00:31:04.780
+from the Hyperbole package.
+
+00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:08.360
+That's what my I got a talk on the stream of
+
+00:31:12.620 --> 00:31:12.700
+thought journaling for with Koutline and I
+
+00:31:14.060 --> 00:31:14.160
+was like, I just don't like the feeling of
+
+00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:18.700
+being tracked in 1 document and denote has
+
+00:31:21.300 --> 00:31:21.800
+the ability to it renames the file so you get
+
+00:31:26.020 --> 00:31:26.520
+keywords in like a PDF file so you can take
+
+00:31:28.100 --> 00:31:28.380
+so you can link to that with your notes
+
+00:31:30.540 --> 00:31:30.700
+without it all disappearing because it's not
+
+00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:36.440
+an org mode document. Plus the ability of
+
+00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:38.940
+having it run on multiple computers or with
+
+00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:43.160
+multiple people, the database kind of gets
+
+00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:46.720
+screwed up when you try running it under sync
+
+00:31:50.500 --> 00:31:51.000
+thing. Sync. More fragile.
+
+00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.500
+[Speaker 0]: Very interesting. Yeah.
+
+00:32:03.260 --> 00:32:03.680
+How far are you? So are you a regular
+
+00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:06.980
+practitioner of the Zettelkasten approach?
+
+00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:12.680
+[Speaker 2]: Trying to be. Incrementally improving it.
+
+00:32:16.780 --> 00:32:16.980
+I partly work too much like testing out the
+
+00:32:20.760 --> 00:32:21.000
+org-roam versus the notes to use it too much.
+
+00:32:23.300 --> 00:32:23.500
+So part of it is I just tweak with it too
+
+00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:25.300
+much before using it and then.
+
+00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:29.240
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, it's so fun to tweak it.
+
+00:32:32.580 --> 00:32:32.840
+[Speaker 2]: I think mostly it's as I have these tools,
+
+00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:34.140
+I know where they are.
+
+00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:35.980
+So whenever I do need them,
+
+00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:38.180
+I can use them, even though I don't always
+
+00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:38.940
+use them.
+
+00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:43.940
+[Speaker 0]: So I have about a thousand notes in my org
+
+00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:48.040
+room. Zettelkasten. I've actually,
+
+00:32:50.140 --> 00:32:50.320
+it's kind of cool that you can export it and
+
+00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:51.960
+move it into other programs.
+
+00:32:56.320 --> 00:32:56.520
+I have moved it to Obsidian and played with
+
+00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:58.180
+it in Obsidian for a while,
+
+00:32:59.820 --> 00:33:00.320
+maybe added to it in Obsidian,
+
+00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:01.980
+moved it back to Orgrim.
+
+00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:07.580
+But I'm not convinced.
+
+00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:11.180
+I mean, that I think that Nicholas Luhmann
+
+00:33:13.360 --> 00:33:13.700
+was very successful with it because he spent
+
+00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:16.420
+5 hours a day or whatever working with it.
+
+00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:19.060
+And I think I would have to do,
+
+00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:21.600
+put in a similar amount of effort to get this
+
+00:33:23.600 --> 00:33:24.100
+kind of benefits that he gained from it.
+
+00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:26.980
+I'm waiting for somebody to do a scientific
+
+00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:29.700
+study, controlled trials to see,
+
+00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:32.220
+to prove whether there's a real benefit.
+
+00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:38.400
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, yeah. So with the Zettelkasten,
+
+00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:41.320
+one of the things where you have the 1 for the
+
+00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:42.680
+sections, and then the 1.1,
+
+00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:47.480
+or you know how the notes that it does that's
+
+00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:49.240
+different. The denote,
+
+00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.380
+it has the ability to use a hierarchy manage,
+
+00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:55.640
+which Org-ROM does everything it can to
+
+00:33:57.380 --> 00:33:57.560
+eliminate. But you can use them both in
+
+00:33:59.140 --> 00:33:59.640
+tandem. They call it signatures.
+
+00:34:04.820 --> 00:34:05.160
+And to me, 1 of the cool features of denote
+
+00:34:06.820 --> 00:34:07.120
+would be being able to use like the
+
+00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:10.280
+signatures for the things that make sense.
+
+00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:13.860
+Like 1 of the ideas is if you don't exactly
+
+00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.100
+know where this is, but you know,
+
+00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:16.239
+it goes to the section,
+
+00:34:17.060 --> 00:34:17.560
+you can just use the signature.
+
+00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:20.080
+Maybe don't even have too much of a file
+
+00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:23.179
+name. Like oh, this is just another thought
+
+00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:28.420
+on, well you wouldn't use it for this,
+
+00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:30.719
+but like my day went good for reasons 1,
+
+00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:33.380
+2, 3, 4, 5, and you could just use the denote
+
+00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:34.920
+signature to do 1, 2, 3,
+
+00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:37.800
+4, 5, just as you have new ideas on like a
+
+00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:42.040
+subject, or like cars are cars are not this
+
+00:34:43.659 --> 00:34:44.580
+car is nice because of reasons XYZ,
+
+00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:47.219
+or these types of four-wheelers are nice
+
+00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:49.080
+because of XYZ. And you could just keep on
+
+00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:50.980
+doing that rather than having to get a new
+
+00:34:52.120 --> 00:34:52.620
+name for each 1 of those files.
+
+00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:55.520
+Or you could choose not to have it,
+
+00:34:57.780 --> 00:34:58.280
+but the ability to have it optionally in,
+
+00:35:01.020 --> 00:35:01.520
+to me, sounds like a really nice combo.
+
+00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:03.200
+Because then you
+
+00:35:06.140 --> 00:35:06.420
+[Speaker 0]: could read. I agree. Yeah,
+
+00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:09.020
+I've actually imposed a hierarchy in my
+
+00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:10.820
+Zettelkasten and Orgrim.
+
+00:35:17.680 --> 00:35:18.180
+I just, I can't imagine having random ideas.
+
+00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:21.700
+They need some kind of structure.
+
+00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:27.840
+Always have some kind of parent node to
+
+00:35:28.420 --> 00:35:28.920
+attach them to.
+
+00:35:32.740 --> 00:35:32.960
+[Speaker 2]: With the workflow I'm trying to develop with
+
+00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:34.840
+it, part of it is I'm just trying to optimize
+
+00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:37.080
+the workflow before it feels really,
+
+00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:38.560
+really, really good, and I don't want to
+
+00:35:39.720 --> 00:35:40.220
+tweak with it, or I don't know.
+
+00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:42.980
+Or maybe I don't always need the tool,
+
+00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:46.020
+but some of the distinctions it seems like
+
+00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:52.580
+that I want is, I want a daily journal For
+
+00:35:53.100 --> 00:35:53.600
+your stream of thoughts,
+
+00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:56.480
+then I want a separate 1 for your to do list
+
+00:35:57.980 --> 00:35:58.480
+because what you like.
+
+00:36:01.240 --> 00:36:01.440
+You want very different properties for each
+
+00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:03.540
+of those. Like for to-do lists,
+
+00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:05.320
+you want hierarchical,
+
+00:36:11.260 --> 00:36:11.760
+limited. But if you have more than 3 priority
+
+00:36:13.660 --> 00:36:13.820
+items, you don't have a priority item and
+
+00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:15.040
+it's not a good to-do list.
+
+00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:18.980
+It's just unordered thoughts.
+
+00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:23.680
+[Speaker 0]: it's a wishful list, because you won't get
+
+00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:26.500
+most of those things done beyond the first 3.
+
+00:36:28.180 --> 00:36:28.380
+[Speaker 2]: You're trying to- So And then when you're
+
+00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:31.100
+trying to do the other stuff,
+
+00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:32.480
+the stream of thoughts,
+
+00:36:34.640 --> 00:36:35.080
+all that stuff I probably don't want to go
+
+00:36:36.720 --> 00:36:36.900
+straight into like my Zettelkasten because
+
+00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:37.940
+some of those problems,
+
+00:36:42.660 --> 00:36:43.160
+like it's noisy, it might be redundant,
+
+00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:45.520
+you don't know how it fits into it because
+
+00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:47.080
+you haven't done that processing on it.
+
+00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:48.460
+This hasn't been refined.
+
+00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:53.140
+So, like, you don't want to refine it.
+
+00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:55.320
+Like, I find that spell checking is
+
+00:36:56.680 --> 00:36:56.920
+detrimental to me. I don't want spell
+
+00:36:58.520 --> 00:36:58.840
+checking. I don't want spell checking.
+
+00:37:00.200 --> 00:37:00.600
+I don't want syntax highlighting.
+
+00:37:04.040 --> 00:37:04.540
+I just want to talk or to just write.
+
+00:37:07.020 --> 00:37:07.520
+If I have mistakes, I can turn on that later,
+
+00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:09.220
+do it. Because otherwise,
+
+00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:13.740
+it will distract me and makes that process
+
+00:37:20.140 --> 00:37:20.280
+[Speaker 0]: Yep, yep, definitely interferes with the
+
+00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:20.780
+flow.
+
+00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:25.080
+[Speaker 2]: worse. So yeah, when you're so yeah when
+
+00:37:28.080 --> 00:37:28.440
+you're doing the getting things done like
+
+00:37:30.040 --> 00:37:30.240
+that's why I want them would be want would
+
+00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:32.600
+want them in separate files is that you want
+
+00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:34.660
+them like ordered, numbered lists,
+
+00:37:38.980 --> 00:37:39.480
+smaller. And then with the other,
+
+00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:40.800
+with the stream of thought,
+
+00:37:42.340 --> 00:37:42.840
+with journaling, you'd want it just
+
+00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:45.740
+unordered. Thoughts land wherever they may.
+
+00:37:49.140 --> 00:37:49.640
+Maybe not even like machine-generated
+
+00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:51.660
+timestamps, So you don't even have to worry
+
+00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:52.940
+about the names of it,
+
+00:37:55.080 --> 00:37:55.380
+as an example. So yeah,
+
+00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:57.160
+very different properties for what you want
+
+00:37:58.260 --> 00:37:58.760
+for both of those modalities.
+
+00:38:06.340 --> 00:38:06.440
+[Speaker 0]: So you saw, perhaps, in that snippet that I
+
+00:38:07.860 --> 00:38:08.360
+had that at, you know,
+
+00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:10.580
+working on my to-do list at the start of the
+
+00:38:13.080 --> 00:38:13.580
+day, but in a certain sense that is not ideal
+
+00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:20.820
+time. I really haven't optimized the timing
+
+00:38:22.640 --> 00:38:23.040
+of assembly of the to-do list,
+
+00:38:24.020 --> 00:38:24.520
+I think, in retrospect.
+
+00:38:27.540 --> 00:38:27.880
+It's just by lifelong habit.
+
+00:38:29.060 --> 00:38:29.560
+I do that at the beginning of the day,
+
+00:38:32.860 --> 00:38:33.000
+but probably would be better to do it at
+
+00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:34.860
+night or the night before.
+
+00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:38.500
+And so you sort of prime your brain to go,
+
+00:38:41.180 --> 00:38:41.680
+just get up and go, go after those items.
+
+00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:46.680
+You were, you maybe you want to revise the
+
+00:38:49.120 --> 00:38:49.620
+items a little bit after sleeping on it,
+
+00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:52.820
+but after your subconscious has worked on
+
+00:38:57.500 --> 00:38:57.660
+those items. Do you have a daily routine that
+
+00:38:59.680 --> 00:38:59.900
+you follow in terms of generating those kind
+
+00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:00.520
+of lists?
+
+00:39:05.660 --> 00:39:06.160
+[Speaker 2]: No. As I said, mostly I just got scaffolding
+
+00:39:08.040 --> 00:39:08.300
+for this stuff when I want to do it.
+
+00:39:10.520 --> 00:39:10.760
+I enjoy building the scaffolding and I know
+
+00:39:12.340 --> 00:39:12.600
+where the tools are when I need it.
+
+00:39:14.540 --> 00:39:14.760
+And I start using them when I need it,
+
+00:39:17.040 --> 00:39:17.540
+but I don't have it too consistent.
+
+00:39:29.720 --> 00:39:30.220
+[Speaker 0]: So OK, so you've looked so far at denote and
+
+00:39:35.300 --> 00:39:35.800
+org-roam, and you're using k-outline.
+
+00:39:39.520 --> 00:39:39.840
+And are there other tools that you've
+
+00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.340
+explored?
+
+00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:44.880
+[Speaker 2]: I've tried using whisper.el
+
+00:39:50.720 --> 00:39:50.920
+and nerd dictation to do What your talk was
+
+00:39:53.560 --> 00:39:53.760
+about? Speaking speech to text to see how
+
+00:39:56.720 --> 00:39:56.840
+that changes Because it does change what you
+
+00:40:01.020 --> 00:40:01.120
+think What you write down when you speak it
+
+00:40:05.080 --> 00:40:05.500
+rather than write it. Same thing as when
+
+00:40:07.420 --> 00:40:07.540
+you're thinking about when you eliminate the
+
+00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:09.440
+editing, it changes the way you write.
+
+00:40:11.900 --> 00:40:12.260
+When you have the spell checking,
+
+00:40:14.100 --> 00:40:14.340
+it changes the way you write to a much
+
+00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:20.600
+smaller degree. But that's the stuff I really
+
+00:40:23.560 --> 00:40:24.060
+haven't gotten working as well,
+
+00:40:25.120 --> 00:40:25.620
+or underdeveloped.
+
+00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:30.660
+[Speaker 0]: So the dictated text winds up,
+
+00:40:37.740 --> 00:40:37.900
+I'll move it in. Often I move it into on
+
+00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:41.200
+Overleaf, this website for a lot of tech
+
+00:40:44.080 --> 00:40:44.580
+documents. I have a plug-in for Rightful,
+
+00:40:50.520 --> 00:40:51.020
+And I use that to clean up my word choices
+
+00:40:56.160 --> 00:40:56.660
+and some grammar. And I use Grammarly.
+
+00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:01.080
+I'll copy and paste. It just depends on the
+
+00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:02.080
+nature of the writing,
+
+00:41:05.720 --> 00:41:06.220
+how serious it is, how polished it has to be.
+
+00:41:12.620 --> 00:41:13.080
+If I, if it's really vital,
+
+00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:14.800
+like for a grant application or something,
+
+00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:17.380
+I'll paste that into Grammarly and work on
+
+00:41:22.160 --> 00:41:22.540
+trying to get the writing level to the lowest
+
+00:41:26.100 --> 00:41:26.280
+possible grade level to make it as clear as
+
+00:41:30.040 --> 00:41:30.220
+possible to as wide of an audience as
+
+00:41:34.740 --> 00:41:34.900
+possible. 1 of the things I kind
+
+00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.500
+[Speaker 2]: of wish with all the spell checking grammarly
+
+00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:40.940
+is I kind of wish you could say,
+
+00:41:48.620 --> 00:41:49.120
+hey, what would the subtle cast in person
+
+00:41:52.120 --> 00:41:52.620
+think of what I wrote who what would einstein
+
+00:41:54.200 --> 00:41:54.400
+think of what I wrote because rather than
+
+00:41:57.340 --> 00:41:57.660
+just trying to make 1 uniform way of talking
+
+00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:00.440
+it's like people talk differently and that's
+
+00:42:04.080 --> 00:42:04.240
+an advantage and I can't I really wish like
+
+00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:07.820
+you maybe these GPT programs could do well.
+
+00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:11.000
+I really wish it could help you with the
+
+00:42:16.160 --> 00:42:16.420
+grammar, that maybe give you thoughts on what
+
+00:42:18.460 --> 00:42:18.720
+your notes are. What does this person think
+
+00:42:20.220 --> 00:42:20.380
+of your thoughts? What does this person think
+
+00:42:20.457 --> 00:42:20.464
+of your thoughts? Well,
+
+00:42:20.640 --> 00:42:20.940
+does this person think of your thoughts?
+
+00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:22.540
+Well, does this person think of your
+
+00:42:22.540 --> 00:42:23.040
+thoughts?
+
+00:42:27.720 --> 00:42:28.140
+[Speaker 0]: That's true. Yeah, I could probably do that
+
+00:42:31.560 --> 00:42:32.060
+even through chat GDP now.
+
+00:42:35.140 --> 00:42:35.640
+I haven't spent time trying that out.
+
+00:42:39.820 --> 00:42:40.320
+But I bet that capabilities are already.
+
+00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:44.480
+It would be nice if it was like built in to
+
+00:42:46.240 --> 00:42:46.740
+Emacs, right? It's a package.
+
+00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:49.520
+Yeah. That'd be very cool.
+
+00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:52.660
+[Speaker 2]: Grammarly have some sort of,
+
+00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:55.320
+like, the grammar where they help you the way
+
+00:42:57.660 --> 00:42:58.040
+you write. Like, for instance,
+
+00:42:59.080 --> 00:42:59.580
+removing redundant words.
+
+00:43:02.720 --> 00:43:03.220
+And Yeah, it's supposed to be like beyond
+
+00:43:04.820 --> 00:43:05.320
+just spell checking, right?
+
+00:43:08.240 --> 00:43:08.740
+[Speaker 0]: Right. So, and there's actually a Grammarly
+
+00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:13.520
+package for Emacs, and you get some of the
+
+00:43:14.540 --> 00:43:15.040
+functionality out of it.
+
+00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:17.560
+I've paid for the subscription to get the
+
+00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:21.460
+advanced features, but I've maybe I don't
+
+00:43:23.300 --> 00:43:23.800
+have my configuration set up correctly.
+
+00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:27.780
+I just found it was easier to copy and paste
+
+00:43:31.780 --> 00:43:32.280
+a paragraph at a time into the desktop
+
+00:43:36.460 --> 00:43:36.780
+application and it will go through and find
+
+00:43:38.900 --> 00:43:39.400
+those redundancies, junk English.
+
+00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.580
+[Speaker 2]: It would be really interesting trying to have
+
+00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:52.760
+1 of these That was my problem with a lot of
+
+00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:56.120
+the grammarly type Programs is I'm I want
+
+00:43:57.620 --> 00:43:57.900
+something that would do that like be real
+
+00:43:59.720 --> 00:43:59.980
+interesting seeing 1 that's like an old
+
+00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:03.960
+English type thing or like Lumen person where
+
+00:44:06.540 --> 00:44:07.040
+it's just like how does this person write and
+
+00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:10.160
+Because it would be it would spit out
+
+00:44:11.160 --> 00:44:11.660
+something a lot different.
+
+00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:13.680
+Just different. Like, yeah,
+
+00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:14.940
+you put different people.
+
+00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:17.900
+[Speaker 0]: Most definitely, yes. They would have a
+
+00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:20.740
+completely different thinking and writing
+
+00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:28.940
+style. And so the purpose of doing that would
+
+00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:34.640
+be to stimulate A new way of thinking or
+
+00:44:36.340 --> 00:44:36.840
+writing I guess on your part
+
+00:44:40.600 --> 00:44:40.960
+[Speaker 2]: the purpose of writing is to communicate It
+
+00:44:43.540 --> 00:44:43.740
+and writing you know 1 of the targets for
+
+00:44:47.020 --> 00:44:47.320
+that could be yourself so it's like I'd much
+
+00:44:50.380 --> 00:44:50.880
+rather have a comprehensible sentence than a
+
+00:44:57.500 --> 00:44:57.720
+truly correct 1. 1 of those is far more
+
+00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:01.280
+valuable and far more correct English or
+
+00:45:06.560 --> 00:45:07.060
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, one's more effective at communicating
+
+00:45:08.860 --> 00:45:09.360
+to yourself. Yes.
+
+00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:11.720
+[Speaker 2]: language. Well, one's using the tool,
+
+00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:15.520
+one's the other you're trying to be used by
+
+00:45:19.080 --> 00:45:19.580
+the tool. And they're not the same thing.
+
+00:45:29.780 --> 00:45:30.280
+[Speaker 0]: That's true. Well, I view myself as being
+
+00:45:35.140 --> 00:45:35.640
+responsible for my writing and being the
+
+00:45:40.200 --> 00:45:40.520
+final judge of it and as a scientist I have
+
+00:45:49.060 --> 00:45:49.300
+to my mantra is it's got to be clear and then
+
+00:45:52.600 --> 00:45:53.100
+precise and then concise in that order.
+
+00:45:56.580 --> 00:45:56.760
+And I claim that, you know,
+
+00:45:58.440 --> 00:45:58.780
+that's the order with which I go through
+
+00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:01.780
+doing revisions. Clarity is,
+
+00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:02.880
+you know, if it's not clear,
+
+00:46:05.420 --> 00:46:05.600
+it's useless. It's got to be clear to me,
+
+00:46:08.240 --> 00:46:08.740
+but it's got to be clear to a lot of people
+
+00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:11.420
+for whom English is not a first language.
+
+00:46:15.520 --> 00:46:15.720
+And then after that, I got to worry about
+
+00:46:19.020 --> 00:46:19.520
+precision and then conciseness,
+
+00:46:24.140 --> 00:46:24.280
+but those can't be done at the expense of
+
+00:46:27.720 --> 00:46:28.220
+clarity. So it's quite a battle.
+
+00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:32.640
+[Speaker 2]: That goes back on the to-do list,
+
+00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:35.860
+where it's like if you have more than 3 items
+
+00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:39.660
+like here the purpose of doing that is to
+
+00:46:43.080 --> 00:46:43.580
+help or grant of a to-do list is help is to
+
+00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:45.680
+Have you help choose what you're going to do
+
+00:46:47.680 --> 00:46:47.840
+for the day. Which is why if you have more
+
+00:46:50.660 --> 00:46:50.860
+than 3 items, if you have 50 items on there,
+
+00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:53.320
+you're not going to get 50 of those items
+
+00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:56.040
+done. So maybe you pick the easiest ones to
+
+00:46:58.620 --> 00:46:59.020
+do, not necessarily the ones that you want or
+
+00:47:03.340 --> 00:47:03.580
+need to be done. So it's like the process of
+
+00:47:06.200 --> 00:47:06.380
+choosing those, like, I don't know,
+
+00:47:07.640 --> 00:47:08.140
+like I found that a very good rules,
+
+00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:11.300
+like up to 3 priority items if you,
+
+00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:13.440
+and then also when you look back and you see
+
+00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:14.940
+that you did those 3 items,
+
+00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:18.680
+Who cares about this? I'd rather get those 3
+
+00:47:20.080 --> 00:47:20.580
+items done than any number of secondary
+
+00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:21.140
+tasks.
+
+00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:26.820
+[Speaker 0]: Yes, I, yeah, you're very,
+
+00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:28.940
+very right about that.
+
+00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:32.640
+I don't, I used to, you know,
+
+00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:36.900
+use a pattern of assigning letters.
+
+00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:39.720
+And so you have like, you know,
+
+00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:41.780
+based on like a hierarchy of,
+
+00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:43.840
+you've got the urgent and important,
+
+00:47:47.300 --> 00:47:47.800
+of course, that you got to deal with those.
+
+00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:50.780
+And then the next thing down is the important
+
+00:48:00.060 --> 00:48:00.300
+and so on. But I tend to just generate these
+
+00:48:03.600 --> 00:48:04.000
+terribly long lists that most of those items
+
+00:48:06.260 --> 00:48:06.760
+would go on what is known as a grass catchers
+
+00:48:09.180 --> 00:48:09.680
+list of things that you may get to someday,
+
+00:48:11.780 --> 00:48:12.280
+but there's no way you can get to them today.
+
+00:48:16.120 --> 00:48:16.620
+But I feel compelled, I need to capture them.
+
+00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.760
+I may want to do them eventually.
+
+00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:21.420
+They wind up on my list.
+
+00:48:24.660 --> 00:48:24.800
+[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, my idea on that is like with a
+
+00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:26.980
+Zettelkasten where you have the day thoughts
+
+00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:29.580
+and the day journal, then you have your
+
+00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:32.160
+Zettelkasten which I don't think should have
+
+00:48:34.740 --> 00:48:34.960
+too close of a connection because one's a lot
+
+00:48:37.940 --> 00:48:38.440
+more, what's the word?
+
+00:48:40.080 --> 00:48:40.580
+[Speaker 0]: It's a knowledge base.
+
+00:48:43.940 --> 00:48:44.440
+[Speaker 2]: Optimized. Yes, one's more processed.
+
+00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:45.760
+Yeah, that's the word.
+
+00:48:47.040 --> 00:48:47.440
+Yeah, one's actually much more processed.
+
+00:48:50.220 --> 00:48:50.640
+The other is you don't want that process
+
+00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:53.240
+because you want it to flow from your head
+
+00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:54.980
+with as little friction as possible.
+
+00:48:59.440 --> 00:48:59.940
+The other 1 you want to be processed so that
+
+00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:02.120
+when you look it up and stuff like that's
+
+00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:05.280
+more efficient Same thing with your to-do
+
+00:49:06.380 --> 00:49:06.680
+things. So like oh, yeah,
+
+00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:09.640
+I guess there's 1 more Category like I
+
+00:49:11.780 --> 00:49:11.980
+thought I found my 3 favorite way rather than
+
+00:49:15.720 --> 00:49:16.220
+like priority 123 is primary tasks which
+
+00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:18.280
+basically generally goes up to 3,
+
+00:49:20.380 --> 00:49:20.460
+secondary tasks, and then I like to have a
+
+00:49:22.540 --> 00:49:23.040
+third category, unplanned tasks,
+
+00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:26.180
+and I just have those wrote down in a heading
+
+00:49:28.520 --> 00:49:28.900
+in an org mode file, and then I put the tasks
+
+00:49:32.160 --> 00:49:32.660
+in there, rather than using the agenda,
+
+00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:34.040
+like too much, I don't know,
+
+00:49:40.240 --> 00:49:40.740
+just I found that that was my favorite way of
+
+00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:43.820
+doing it and then you have like another file
+
+00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:48.000
+that would just be your dump of anything you
+
+00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:51.660
+want to do and that would be like that you
+
+00:49:57.040 --> 00:49:57.540
+could pull from to get your day or I guess
+
+00:49:59.240 --> 00:49:59.440
+something that's actually better than a day
+
+00:50:01.560 --> 00:50:01.720
+is doing it all by a week at a time I found
+
+00:50:03.160 --> 00:50:03.660
+that that's actually a lot nicer because
+
+00:50:06.600 --> 00:50:06.840
+thinking about what you do in a week seems
+
+00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:09.840
+like a nicer unit, where you have a week,
+
+00:50:10.520 --> 00:50:11.020
+then you have your day,
+
+00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:13.780
+and then you have the 3 categories of
+
+00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:17.000
+priority, secondary, and unplanned.
+
+00:50:20.860 --> 00:50:20.920
+At least that's been my favorite iteration on
+
+00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.340
+[Speaker 0]: thought process workflow.
+
+00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:31.640
+[Speaker 2]: the week of the to-do I had
+
+00:50:33.820 --> 00:50:34.320
+[Speaker 0]: a colleague that was very effective at
+
+00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:37.780
+planning on a weekly basis and he would just
+
+00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.900
+get his weekly list of things to get done and
+
+00:50:43.640 --> 00:50:43.860
+he was very good at pounding through that
+
+00:50:45.380 --> 00:50:45.880
+list and getting them done.
+
+00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:49.740
+I have been too much of a day-oriented person
+
+00:50:54.020 --> 00:50:54.200
+and a week-oriented person to adapt his
+
+00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:57.260
+approach, but I've been considering that too.
+
+00:51:03.080 --> 00:51:03.520
+I think what I don't do enough of is pulling
+
+00:51:05.640 --> 00:51:06.140
+back to the month level,
+
+00:51:08.100 --> 00:51:08.600
+semester level, year level,
+
+00:51:10.900 --> 00:51:11.400
+5 year level, 10 year level.
+
+00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:12.380
+And...
+
+00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:16.200
+[Speaker 2]: That's the advantage of finding it by a week
+
+00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:18.120
+is like you can have like so you'd have your
+
+00:51:20.060 --> 00:51:20.560
+week and then maybe you have like 1 section
+
+00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:24.660
+after Friday or last day of the week and this
+
+00:51:27.660 --> 00:51:28.160
+is like your this is just your like staging
+
+00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:30.460
+so this is where you stage all the tasks and
+
+00:51:32.560 --> 00:51:32.720
+then what like you can just stay in your
+
+00:51:37.020 --> 00:51:37.280
+staging write them all down and then use alt
+
+00:51:39.860 --> 00:51:40.040
+and your arrow keys to quickly reorder all of
+
+00:51:43.340 --> 00:51:43.640
+them in the week and then when you're looking
+
+00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:46.300
+at 1 day and you're just looking at ordering
+
+00:51:48.820 --> 00:51:48.960
+everything well it makes a lot of sense when
+
+00:51:51.720 --> 00:51:51.960
+you just say, I don't really want to do that.
+
+00:51:53.160 --> 00:51:53.660
+Like I want this done this week.
+
+00:51:56.260 --> 00:51:56.500
+I don't necessarily want it done on this day.
+
+00:51:58.520 --> 00:51:58.740
+So it just, that's why I found that the week
+
+00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:00.780
+approach works a lot nicer even.
+
+00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:10.260
+[Speaker 0]: of a staging time you like schedule some time
+
+00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:12.380
+in your week to do the staging.
+
+00:52:14.620 --> 00:52:14.960
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah. Is that way The staging is more of just
+
+00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:16.960
+like, these are the things I would like to
+
+00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:19.940
+get done. And then when you schedule it,
+
+00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:23.800
+then you kind of schedule it by just using
+
+00:52:26.240 --> 00:52:26.740
+the Alt-Left key, the Alt-Arrow keys to just,
+
+00:52:28.380 --> 00:52:28.580
+oh, I want this done. It looks like this
+
+00:52:29.860 --> 00:52:30.040
+would work really good on this day.
+
+00:52:31.620 --> 00:52:32.120
+This 1 looks like it would work on this day.
+
+00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:39.300
+[Speaker 0]: A, you still utilize org agenda?
+
+00:52:45.140 --> 00:52:45.640
+[Speaker 2]: I try to, I don't know,
+
+00:52:49.120 --> 00:52:49.540
+I found that it works at least better without
+
+00:52:52.120 --> 00:52:52.620
+it. Yeah, that's fine.
+
+00:52:54.020 --> 00:52:54.340
+Because that way I also get a log of
+
+00:53:00.020 --> 00:53:00.140
+everything I've done, which I can't find a
+
+00:53:03.240 --> 00:53:03.400
+way that, it seems easier to just make new
+
+00:53:06.380 --> 00:53:06.760
+files for it. And rather than,
+
+00:53:08.160 --> 00:53:08.660
+like you could use it with Org Agenda,
+
+00:53:11.540 --> 00:53:12.040
+but like 1 of the things that you want is
+
+00:53:14.040 --> 00:53:14.540
+with it is to look back at it,
+
+00:53:18.380 --> 00:53:18.880
+reflect. And so like if you have the,
+
+00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:23.640
+if you have, if you open up the file with 2
+
+00:53:25.580 --> 00:53:25.760
+levels or 3 levels of headings to where you
+
+00:53:26.780 --> 00:53:27.040
+just see the priority task,
+
+00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:30.300
+you can get a very nice overview of saying,
+
+00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:34.360
+I did my priority task this day.
+
+00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:39.100
+So you get the numbers next to the things.
+
+00:53:40.200 --> 00:53:40.700
+And so you can easily just say,
+
+00:53:41.820 --> 00:53:41.980
+I've done this. I mean,
+
+00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:43.520
+it would be nice if I could figure out a way
+
+00:53:45.240 --> 00:53:45.740
+of doing agenda to give me percentages.
+
+00:53:50.680 --> 00:53:51.180
+But I haven't figured that out.
+
+00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:54.780
+Seeing the granular level,
+
+00:53:57.100 --> 00:53:57.340
+I can easily scan that with my eyes.
+
+00:53:59.720 --> 00:53:59.900
+So I just did it by hand rather than the
+
+00:53:59.900 --> 00:54:00.400
+agenda.
+
+00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:06.600
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I've, I've tried to use agenda a few
+
+00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:10.900
+times and pretty seriously,
+
+00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:15.060
+but I keep bouncing off it.
+
+00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:18.160
+I think I get too many things built in or
+
+00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:21.700
+scheduled and I just don't get to them.
+
+00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:26.500
+I feel bad about it and I wind up abandoning
+
+00:54:31.220 --> 00:54:31.500
+it. So that's 1 area where there's probably
+
+00:54:34.820 --> 00:54:35.040
+some potential for optimizing and making that
+
+00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:40.440
+work better. There's a lot of customizing you
+
+00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:42.780
+can do with Agenda. It's amazing.
+
+00:54:44.540 --> 00:54:45.040
+[Speaker 2]: For me, it was though,
+
+00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:48.980
+I wanted there to be a separation between the
+
+00:54:52.120 --> 00:54:52.420
+daily to-do lists and like your grab bag
+
+00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:54.600
+which I think agenda works a lot better for a
+
+00:54:58.040 --> 00:54:58.440
+grab bag. I want a nice way of looking back
+
+00:55:01.560 --> 00:55:02.060
+at my to-do daily to-do logs.
+
+00:55:05.980 --> 00:55:06.340
+So I kind of want them to be separated,
+
+00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:08.980
+so I just did them separate.
+
+00:55:12.540 --> 00:55:12.680
+With the agenda, I could never figure out
+
+00:55:14.060 --> 00:55:14.560
+exactly how I want that to work,
+
+00:55:15.620 --> 00:55:16.120
+how the files would look,
+
+00:55:18.580 --> 00:55:18.960
+and how all the Emacs settings would interact
+
+00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:21.660
+with it. I mean, I'm sure I could,
+
+00:55:28.780 --> 00:55:29.160
+but that's why I opted for weekly files.
+
+00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:35.140
+Or at least That's my most refined idea on
+
+00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:35.780
+the process.
+
+00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:41.400
+[Speaker 0]: That's a good idea. So I've taken my approach
+
+00:55:43.940 --> 00:55:44.440
+is a little different that I'm generating
+
+00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:46.960
+this text on a daily basis and popping it
+
+00:55:52.660 --> 00:55:52.900
+into this to 1 document file per day and a
+
+00:55:59.020 --> 00:55:59.300
+like a diary on Overleaf as a big so it winds
+
+00:56:01.950 --> 00:56:02.450
+[Speaker 2]: sections
+
+00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:05.600
+[Speaker 0]: up being 365 and where every month is a
+
+00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:11.640
+chapter and it's compiled quickly enough even
+
+00:56:13.100 --> 00:56:13.480
+though it's often up to 1,000
+
+00:56:14.780 --> 00:56:15.280
+pages long by the end of the year.
+
+00:56:17.220 --> 00:56:17.500
+And I have all these, of course,
+
+00:56:19.240 --> 00:56:19.700
+with the PDF, I can search through it.
+
+00:56:22.540 --> 00:56:22.760
+So that's not as you can't do the kind of
+
+00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:24.560
+really sophisticated searching that you can
+
+00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:29.840
+do with Org Mode. But just doing that,
+
+00:56:33.620 --> 00:56:33.800
+It sure has been very helpful in digging up
+
+00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:39.680
+information, like the little protocols on how
+
+00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:43.460
+I attack, accomplish a certain task that I
+
+00:56:45.420 --> 00:56:45.920
+have to do a year later,
+
+00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:50.540
+or to have a record of what I did on a
+
+00:56:54.220 --> 00:56:54.400
+certain day and then somebody above me might
+
+00:56:57.100 --> 00:56:57.340
+be trying to hold me to account what got
+
+00:56:59.580 --> 00:57:00.080
+done. I can look that up pretty very quickly.
+
+00:57:05.140 --> 00:57:05.320
+It's documented. I find that to be just any
+
+00:57:09.520 --> 00:57:09.840
+kind of thorough documentation system is very
+
+00:57:16.080 --> 00:57:16.320
+[Speaker 2]: I also mess with having it all in 1 file
+
+00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:17.940
+rather than by a weak file.
+
+00:57:20.140 --> 00:57:20.640
+[Speaker 0]: useful. And at least what I did.
+
+00:57:21.820 --> 00:57:22.320
+I ran into trouble with,
+
+00:57:25.380 --> 00:57:25.880
+like, once you get a lot of items,
+
+00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:27.540
+like if you have 1,000
+
+00:57:30.580 --> 00:57:30.780
+items, headings, I've had org files with
+
+00:57:33.680 --> 00:57:34.180
+1,000 headings. It can be so hard to scroll
+
+00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:39.280
+through. Maybe it's some limitations I'm run
+
+00:57:42.240 --> 00:57:42.740
+into with the Emacs being single threaded.
+
+00:57:49.120 --> 00:57:49.620
+[Speaker 2]: At least with, yeah. Yeah.
+
+00:57:52.420 --> 00:57:52.920
+It was like, that's 1 of the things is like,
+
+00:57:54.240 --> 00:57:54.520
+how exactly do you want this,
+
+00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:56.120
+the information structured because it can
+
+00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:57.320
+change how it's retrieved.
+
+00:58:00.260 --> 00:58:00.760
+[Speaker 0]: Ooh, most definitely. Most definitely.
+
+00:58:08.200 --> 00:58:08.560
+[Speaker 2]: So as an example, when I was doing the daily
+
+00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:14.960
+logs and I put it all in the date and then
+
+00:58:15.700 --> 00:58:16.200
+the priority, secondary,
+
+00:58:21.980 --> 00:58:22.100
+unplanned tasks, and then I had it stay at
+
+00:58:24.940 --> 00:58:25.120
+that, get auto expanded by that level by
+
+00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:27.780
+default so I didn't see the individual task
+
+00:58:30.720 --> 00:58:30.860
+and you and then I had a but And then it
+
+00:58:33.120 --> 00:58:33.420
+would say like I complete 205 or something
+
+00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:34.940
+like that of secondary tasks.
+
+00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:38.400
+And then just being able just to quickly scan
+
+00:58:39.740 --> 00:58:40.240
+all the days and say, oh,
+
+00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:43.260
+it just, the feedback you get from that is
+
+00:58:46.300 --> 00:58:46.500
+worth a lot. And I don't think it's
+
+00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:48.120
+something, it's not something I could think
+
+00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:49.820
+of how you do an agenda.
+
+00:58:53.300 --> 00:58:53.540
+Even though I got done in the text files just
+
+00:58:57.260 --> 00:58:57.400
+because you get that doesn't expand all the
+
+00:58:59.580 --> 00:58:59.800
+way so you so you can quickly just see on
+
+00:59:01.940 --> 00:59:02.140
+this day I did this well on this day I did
+
+00:59:05.800 --> 00:59:06.300
+this well all within and 4 lines per day.
+
+00:59:11.040 --> 00:59:11.420
+So it's not, that doesn't,
+
+00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:13.420
+that's not very visually verbose.
+
+00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:17.080
+Probably about as visually verbose as you
+
+00:59:18.640 --> 00:59:19.140
+want it. They're not super long.
+
+00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:23.200
+You easily see the 2 of 3 and stuff like that
+
+00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:25.420
+that you get done so you can quickly and say,
+
+00:59:29.380 --> 00:59:29.600
+oh well, these are the days where I got my
+
+00:59:31.300 --> 00:59:31.800
+primary tasks done or this week,
+
+00:59:36.340 --> 00:59:36.500
+and this day I didn't do it well and you
+
+00:59:38.300 --> 00:59:38.740
+could helps you correlate like your feelings
+
+00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:42.620
+with your to-do lists and journals and
+
+00:59:42.620 --> 00:59:43.120
+whatnot.
+
+00:59:48.940 --> 00:59:49.440
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah I think that's very powerful.
+
+00:59:53.300 --> 00:59:53.800
+Because it's summarizing capability.
+
+00:59:57.560 --> 00:59:58.060
+It allows you to, you know,
+
+01:00:00.656 --> 01:00:00.784
+pull back and get an overview.
+
+01:00:01.040 --> 01:00:01.540
+Get an overview.
+
+01:00:07.580 --> 01:00:08.080
+[Speaker 2]: And yeah, as I said, it's like the feedback
+
+01:00:10.600 --> 01:00:10.760
+from that almost when I did that,
+
+01:00:12.620 --> 01:00:12.800
+it feels like half the reason or should be
+
+01:00:14.580 --> 01:00:14.900
+like half the reason is and it's something
+
+01:00:19.120 --> 01:00:19.340
+that I don't if you use the agenda as it is,
+
+01:00:21.220 --> 01:00:21.360
+you wouldn't, I don't know how you would get
+
+01:00:23.160 --> 01:00:23.360
+it, like saying, like looking at the week by
+
+01:00:25.080 --> 01:00:25.580
+week basis, breakdowns,
+
+01:00:27.120 --> 01:00:27.620
+you might be able to get like percentages,
+
+01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:30.900
+which would be nice. Like I did this well,
+
+01:00:33.700 --> 01:00:34.120
+or like habit, I don't,
+
+01:00:35.640 --> 01:00:35.920
+there might be things that could offer you
+
+01:00:39.700 --> 01:00:40.200
+but. Yeah,
+
+01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:47.280
+[Speaker 0]: so I'm pretty obsessed about tracking effort
+
+01:00:48.560 --> 01:00:49.060
+on various kinds of projects,
+
+01:00:52.020 --> 01:00:52.520
+or various kinds of activities,
+
+01:00:57.880 --> 01:00:58.360
+and to get some feedback in that regard.
+
+01:00:59.500 --> 01:01:00.000
+And then you, but you got the,
+
+01:01:02.040 --> 01:01:02.540
+So I define a project as anything that
+
+01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:06.780
+requires work at different points in time,
+
+01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:07.540
+more than 1
+
+01:01:15.300 --> 01:01:15.520
+[Speaker 2]: time. I'll email you my org mode template
+
+01:01:17.560 --> 01:01:18.060
+that I made that demonstrates that.
+
+01:01:22.200 --> 01:01:22.700
+I don't know if you, do you have your email
+
+01:01:24.520 --> 01:01:25.020
+in your talk notes or anything?
+
+01:01:29.380 --> 01:01:29.700
+[Speaker 0]: Okay. I think I should have it on the first
+
+01:01:31.560 --> 01:01:32.060
+slide. There should be my email address.
+
+01:01:40.560 --> 01:01:41.060
+I can add it to my talk notes.
+
+01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:47.040
+[Speaker 2]: Okay. Would you want me to show it to you at
+
+01:01:48.940 --> 01:01:49.440
+[Speaker 0]: that'd be great.
+
+01:01:52.600 --> 01:01:53.100
+[Speaker 2]: all? Sure, All right, let's see.
+
+01:02:20.842 --> 01:02:20.905
+I'm going to share screen button,
+
+01:02:21.220 --> 01:02:21.520
+right? There's a share screen button,
+
+01:02:21.520 --> 01:02:22.020
+right?
+
+01:02:26.160 --> 01:02:26.660
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, so, let's see.
+
+01:02:59.243 --> 01:02:59.743
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I'm all. That's the right button.
+
+01:03:04.640 --> 01:03:05.140
+Can you not share the screen on this?
+
+01:03:08.860 --> 01:03:09.360
+[Speaker 0]: I have something going here.
+
+01:03:13.900 --> 01:03:14.400
+Let's see. I have, I see some stuff on here.
+
+01:03:18.160 --> 01:03:18.660
+Wonder if I'm still active.
+
+01:03:21.180 --> 01:03:21.680
+It shows share screen.
+
+01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:22.780
+Cancel.
+
+01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:28.760
+[Speaker 2]: Maybe they just did it through OBS.
+
+01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:47.780
+[Speaker 0]: Maybe I only have permission to share.
+
+01:03:53.900 --> 01:03:54.400
+I can put my email address in the chat.
+
+01:03:59.440 --> 01:03:59.620
+[Speaker 2]: I guess I'll just email it to you,
+
+01:04:06.600 --> 01:04:06.840
+but Let's see. Yeah, I think the way that
+
+01:04:11.260 --> 01:04:11.460
+they did it on the Any of the other videos if
+
+01:04:13.780 --> 01:04:14.020
+they shared the screen they just shared the
+
+01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:17.560
+webcam they just took over the webcam with
+
+01:04:20.380 --> 01:04:20.880
+OBS and shared what they wanted with it.
+
+01:04:22.760 --> 01:04:23.260
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, okay.
+
+01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:25.180
+[Speaker 2]: At least I'm guessing.
+
+01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:27.460
+Yeah, I'll give that to you.
+
+01:04:31.080 --> 01:04:31.240
+Okay. I guess I'll let you go watch the rest
+
+01:04:32.240 --> 01:04:32.740
+of the Emacs videos.
+
+01:04:34.640 --> 01:04:35.140
+[Speaker 0]: This has been a great conversation.
+
+01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:37.780
+Thank you very much. I appreciate your
+
+01:04:39.620 --> 01:04:39.840
+willingness to share your thoughts on this
+
+01:04:42.980 --> 01:04:43.480
+matter. This is vital,
+
+01:04:48.260 --> 01:04:48.440
+time management. It's a kind of key aspect of
+
+01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:48.940
+life.
+
+01:04:54.680 --> 01:04:55.180
+[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah. The way the how the function.
+
+01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:03.820
+Reasons to use emacs is to use the keyboard
+
+01:05:08.240 --> 01:05:08.420
+is. It's not to speed you up.
+
+01:05:09.520 --> 01:05:10.020
+Like, yeah, that's nice.
+
+01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:12.780
+But it keeps you in the stream,
+
+01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:25.760
+keeps you in the flow state and which then
+
+01:05:32.780 --> 01:05:32.900
+just makes you think better and yeah and the
+
+01:05:35.540 --> 01:05:35.780
+thing with that is you I have you I have no
+
+01:05:37.480 --> 01:05:37.980
+idea what the limits of that would be.
+
+01:05:39.680 --> 01:05:40.020
+Because you think, because yes,
+
+01:05:42.740 --> 01:05:42.900
+it's not about beating up how many words you
+
+01:05:44.860 --> 01:05:45.060
+say a minute. I mean that's nice and all,
+
+01:05:46.680 --> 01:05:46.920
+But when you start doing that,
+
+01:05:48.340 --> 01:05:48.840
+when you start removing all these friction
+
+01:05:52.500 --> 01:05:53.000
+points, all of a sudden the number,
+
+01:05:57.800 --> 01:05:58.300
+quality, and types of thoughts you get start
+
+01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120
+[Speaker 0]: That's right.
+
+01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:03.980
+[Speaker 2]: increasing. Which is the goal.
+
+01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:15.460
+[Speaker 0]: Okay. Well, thank you very much.
+
+01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:18.260
+Enjoy the rest of the meeting.
+
+01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:19.780
+[Speaker 2]: Will do.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-web--emacs-saves-the-web-maybe--yuchen-pei--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-web--emacs-saves-the-web-maybe--yuchen-pei--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..552148f9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-web--emacs-saves-the-web-maybe--yuchen-pei--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,779 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:05.140
+[Speaker 0]: 2 seconds. And I think we are live.
+
+00:00:05.980 --> 00:00:06.480
+Hi Yuchen, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:09.220
+[Speaker 1]: I'm gonna just walk off.
+
+00:00:10.840 --> 00:00:11.120
+I'm not sure if I... Yeah,
+
+00:00:13.440 --> 00:00:13.740
+I mean, brain not working well at this
+
+00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:15.160
+moment. How about you?
+
+00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:18.760
+[Speaker 2]: Well, mine is about to get fried because
+
+00:00:21.040 --> 00:00:21.260
+EmacsConf is a very taxing process and I can
+
+00:00:24.599 --> 00:00:25.080
+tell you we could have a race to know who's
+
+00:00:26.720 --> 00:00:26.920
+more more tired right now between you and
+
+00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:29.619
+myself but I guess we'll find out at the end
+
+00:00:32.080 --> 00:00:32.580
+[Speaker 1]: All right, sounds good.
+
+00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:34.700
+[Speaker 2]: of the Q&A. And thank you for...
+
+00:00:37.760 --> 00:00:37.900
+How late or how early I should say is it for
+
+00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:39.640
+you right now? It should be like 6am or
+
+00:00:43.860 --> 00:00:44.059
+[Speaker 1]: Thanks. It's 7.45 but I normally get up at
+
+00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:45.520
+like 8.30 or something.
+
+00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:46.860
+[Speaker 2]: something? Right, okay.
+
+00:00:48.380 --> 00:00:48.880
+Well, anyway, thank you for the sacrifice
+
+00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:50.700
+just to answer some of the questions.
+
+00:00:56.160 --> 00:00:56.320
+All right, so I'll be displaying the
+
+00:00:59.180 --> 00:00:59.680
+questions. I'll be, let me just maximize this
+
+00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:01.720
+on the stream so that people can read
+
+00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:02.640
+everything on my screen.
+
+00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:03.480
+So what I'm going to do,
+
+00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:05.740
+Yuchen, as usual, I'm going to start reading
+
+00:01:06.540 --> 00:01:06.720
+the questions on the pad.
+
+00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:12.660
+I'm going to ask Sasha to open the Q&A.
+
+00:01:13.620 --> 00:01:13.940
+Yes, it's already open.
+
+00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:15.479
+Cool. So if you want to join us,
+
+00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:19.540
+people, Feel free to click on the link on the
+
+00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:21.940
+talk or on IRC to join us on BBB and to ask
+
+00:01:23.440 --> 00:01:23.560
+your questions. Otherwise just leave them on
+
+00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:24.720
+the pad. Alright, Yuchen,
+
+00:01:25.440 --> 00:01:25.940
+starting with the first question.
+
+00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:28.620
+I like the idea of using org-mode to display
+
+00:01:30.300 --> 00:01:30.640
+data from the web. Are there many different
+
+00:01:33.220 --> 00:01:33.580
+packages that do not, I assume.
+
+00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:35.720
+I'm new to Emacs, so maybe this is obvious to
+
+00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:36.540
+everyone else.
+
+00:01:43.860 --> 00:01:44.360
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think so. I mean...
+
+00:01:49.240 --> 00:01:49.440
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think it's a little complicated to
+
+00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:51.660
+specify what is it to display data from the
+
+00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:53.560
+web. Just reading it like this,
+
+00:01:55.900 --> 00:01:56.200
+I'm reminded of Adam, Arthur Pappa,
+
+00:01:58.260 --> 00:01:58.520
+I mean, Code All Capture Web,
+
+00:02:00.860 --> 00:02:01.060
+which technically captures the web and allows
+
+00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:02.500
+you to embed it in the page,
+
+00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:04.400
+but is it really displaying data from the
+
+00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:06.840
+web? Are we implying live transmission?
+
+00:02:07.720 --> 00:02:08.220
+Do you see what I'm talking about?
+
+00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:11.180
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I suspect the question is asking,
+
+00:02:17.040 --> 00:02:17.540
+like, having Emacs as a client that's sort of
+
+00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:20.240
+getting data from the web and then displays
+
+00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:25.620
+in Emacs, like using API or using web script.
+
+00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:35.440
+So yeah, like the hreader package or a few
+
+00:02:37.580 --> 00:02:38.080
+packages mentioned in my talk.
+
+00:02:39.920 --> 00:02:40.180
+Yeah, that's a good question.
+
+00:02:46.220 --> 00:02:46.720
+I mean, I really don't know how many.
+
+00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:48.560
+So from my experience,
+
+00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:56.460
+maybe I use like 10, less than 10 packages
+
+00:03:01.220 --> 00:03:01.460
+that do these things. And among these
+
+00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:04.120
+packages, maybe it's half of them are org,
+
+00:03:09.480 --> 00:03:09.980
+[Speaker 2]: So you mean half of them are org-based?
+
+00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:11.340
+Is that what you said?
+
+00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:12.340
+[Speaker 1]: half of them don't. Yeah,
+
+00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:17.420
+but that's just based on the packages I use.
+
+00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:22.940
+I haven't done a survey about this.
+
+00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:25.680
+[Speaker 2]: I think it's okay, you don't need to have all
+
+00:03:26.880 --> 00:03:27.340
+the answers. I mean, you already demonstrate
+
+00:03:29.380 --> 00:03:29.480
+a lot of competence and you talk about all
+
+00:03:31.100 --> 00:03:31.520
+the things you approach with your particular
+
+00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:33.240
+setup, So you don't need to have all the
+
+00:03:36.040 --> 00:03:36.280
+answers. Okay. All right,
+
+00:03:37.160 --> 00:03:37.660
+moving on to the next question.
+
+00:03:39.340 --> 00:03:39.720
+Have you tried EAF, i.e.
+
+00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:41.840
+The Emacs application framework and its
+
+00:03:43.940 --> 00:03:44.120
+browser? If yes, what is your opinion about
+
+00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:44.620
+it?
+
+00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:48.020
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, I haven't tried it.
+
+00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:54.260
+I try to remember why I haven't tried it.
+
+00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:04.020
+It has a browser. I assume the browser
+
+00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:07.340
+executes JavaScript by default.
+
+00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:12.820
+I have to check. Emacs.daf
+
+00:04:15.820 --> 00:04:16.320
+slash daf browser.
+
+00:04:25.520 --> 00:04:25.840
+[Speaker 2]: It's also OK if you want to have a look later
+
+00:04:27.380 --> 00:04:27.560
+and you know whenever you want to report to
+
+00:04:28.940 --> 00:04:29.220
+the pad you know you write a little blurb
+
+00:04:34.700 --> 00:04:34.860
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah sure yeah so yeah I know about EAF but I
+
+00:04:35.460 --> 00:04:35.960
+haven't tried it.
+
+00:04:38.060 --> 00:04:38.340
+[Speaker 2]: about it. Okay well that's already an answer
+
+00:04:41.400 --> 00:04:41.580
+that's cool. We're gonna move on to a
+
+00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:43.040
+question that is a little bit off topic,
+
+00:04:44.700 --> 00:04:44.860
+but I've also been interested about your
+
+00:04:47.420 --> 00:04:47.800
+nickname on IRC. This is not really relevant
+
+00:04:48.900 --> 00:04:49.340
+to the talk, quoting the question,
+
+00:04:50.400 --> 00:04:50.900
+but I'm curious about your nickname.
+
+00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:52.520
+You have some connection to Norway.
+
+00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:54.640
+Your nick indicates an interest in the
+
+00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:56.200
+architectural style inspired by the
+
+00:04:58.280 --> 00:04:58.700
+decoration on Viking ships that was popular
+
+00:05:00.460 --> 00:05:00.700
+in the early 20th century because
+
+00:05:01.880 --> 00:05:02.380
+Dragonsteel, I assume in Norwegian,
+
+00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:05.360
+is Dragon style. Are you familiar with this?
+
+00:05:10.760 --> 00:05:11.260
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it's just my favorite architecture
+
+00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:16.060
+style, I think. I mean,
+
+00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:19.540
+I lived in Sweden for like 2,
+
+00:05:25.900 --> 00:05:26.320
+1 half years and yeah I went to Norway once
+
+00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:33.020
+and I saw like this church in Lofoten Island,
+
+00:05:36.766 --> 00:05:36.780
+[Speaker 0]: was amazing. In Luton Island,
+
+00:05:36.820 --> 00:05:36.833
+on Luton Island. Right.
+
+00:05:36.833 --> 00:05:36.846
+[Speaker 1]: on Lofoten Island. Yeah it Yeah,
+
+00:05:40.280 --> 00:05:40.560
+it was amazing. So, yeah,
+
+00:05:43.780 --> 00:05:44.060
+that's exactly why I chose that as my
+
+00:05:46.520 --> 00:05:46.940
+nickname, because it's my favorite
+
+00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:48.040
+architecture style.
+
+00:05:51.940 --> 00:05:52.080
+[Speaker 2]: Okay, well, that was a very astute remark by
+
+00:05:54.760 --> 00:05:54.960
+the viewers, so I hope you feel validated in
+
+00:05:58.480 --> 00:05:58.660
+[Speaker 0]: assumptions. Moving on
+
+00:05:58.980 --> 00:05:59.480
+[Speaker 2]: your to another question.
+
+00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:02.360
+Yuchen, do you have any thoughts about Nixed,
+
+00:06:03.880 --> 00:06:04.380
+about its name, its approach,
+
+00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:09.060
+its relevance? About Nixed,
+
+00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:11.720
+the browser, N-Y-X-T. Oh,
+
+00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:12.220
+Nixed.
+
+00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:17.720
+[Speaker 1]: About what? Yeah, I have tried it.
+
+00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:21.860
+Well, I mean, it's not Emacs.
+
+00:06:26.140 --> 00:06:26.380
+It's kind of similar. I think it tries to do
+
+00:06:27.440 --> 00:06:27.900
+something similar to Emacs,
+
+00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:34.240
+but The problem with Nix is that very early
+
+00:06:37.180 --> 00:06:37.680
+on I encountered an issue with keybinding.
+
+00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:43.240
+So the first thing I want to do is to make
+
+00:06:44.300 --> 00:06:44.800
+all its keybindings emax-y.
+
+00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:47.420
+So that's obviously...
+
+00:06:51.200 --> 00:06:51.580
+So what was the problem?
+
+00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:53.500
+So yeah, I couldn't even do that.
+
+00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:56.620
+I thought, I was expecting that it could...
+
+00:07:02.660 --> 00:07:02.860
+There shouldn't be any issues with setting up
+
+00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:04.440
+whatever key binding you want.
+
+00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:09.180
+So I, the, the issue was that when I tried to
+
+00:07:15.400 --> 00:07:15.660
+do when I tried to bind Ctrl S Ctrl R to the
+
+00:07:17.380 --> 00:07:17.600
+prompt going up and down,
+
+00:07:22.900 --> 00:07:23.140
+so I use I was I complete and I'm used to
+
+00:07:26.760 --> 00:07:27.260
+like the control S and control R to go,
+
+00:07:28.980 --> 00:07:29.480
+to cycle through the selections.
+
+00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:35.760
+And so I want it the same in next in its
+
+00:07:38.460 --> 00:07:38.960
+prompt like when, for example,
+
+00:07:43.620 --> 00:07:44.120
+typing a URL and get completion from history.
+
+00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:49.400
+But it has a conflict with the...
+
+00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:56.180
+And also, I try to bind the hint.
+
+00:08:00.440 --> 00:08:00.940
+So when I want to follow a link,
+
+00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:06.300
+So I press a hint key and then like all these
+
+00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:10.320
+links are highlighted with like little
+
+00:08:13.660 --> 00:08:13.860
+letters that I can like choose which 1 I want
+
+00:08:14.820 --> 00:08:15.320
+which link I want to follow.
+
+00:08:20.140 --> 00:08:20.640
+So I try to bind that 1 to J sort of like
+
+00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:24.060
+Control C, Control J, or mode.
+
+00:08:28.780 --> 00:08:29.180
+But apparently there's a conflict here.
+
+00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:33.820
+So when I do both these prompt mode binding
+
+00:08:36.260 --> 00:08:36.760
+and the document mode binding,
+
+00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:40.460
+Yeah, the prompt no longer works.
+
+00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:44.340
+And I reported the bug to Nixt.
+
+00:08:50.500 --> 00:08:50.600
+And yeah, and there was response but there
+
+00:08:52.580 --> 00:08:53.000
+are so many bugs there,
+
+00:08:55.640 --> 00:08:55.940
+and I don't think that bug is very high
+
+00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:00.860
+priority. So yeah, I basically stopped trying
+
+00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:03.660
+that because key mining is very important to
+
+00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:08.100
+[Speaker 2]: Right, but, sorry, please finish.
+
+00:09:15.620 --> 00:09:15.740
+[Speaker 1]: me. Yeah, so I mean, yeah,
+
+00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:17.820
+without key bindings I can't like,
+
+00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:24.440
+I won't. So, okay, I feel this is a very
+
+00:09:29.280 --> 00:09:29.440
+basic functionality. I'm kind of reluctant to
+
+00:09:31.220 --> 00:09:31.560
+[Speaker 2]: Without key bindings, they are.
+
+00:09:32.020 --> 00:09:32.520
+[Speaker 1]: continue trying what These are pieces.
+
+00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:34.540
+[Speaker 2]: It reminds me of 2 points.
+
+00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:36.100
+So yesterday with Stefan we were talking
+
+00:09:37.540 --> 00:09:37.860
+about sane defaults and when he was sleeping
+
+00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:39.600
+today we talked about it again with a
+
+00:09:41.400 --> 00:09:41.900
+speaker. We did the mentor talk.
+
+00:09:43.020 --> 00:09:43.520
+Feel free to re-watch it afterwards.
+
+00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:48.440
+But it's funny how, you know,
+
+00:09:50.920 --> 00:09:51.360
+regardless of how big the package actually
+
+00:09:54.520 --> 00:09:54.820
+is, they always provide some kind of sane
+
+00:09:55.640 --> 00:09:55.960
+default and with Nixed,
+
+00:09:58.620 --> 00:09:59.120
+obviously, it's built with a Vim mentality
+
+00:10:02.020 --> 00:10:02.520
+and modality of key bindings.
+
+00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:06.060
+And for us, we are more used to the Emacs way
+
+00:10:08.040 --> 00:10:08.540
+of doing things. It's a complete blocker.
+
+00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.560
+No matter how great the pieces of
+
+00:10:12.280 --> 00:10:12.780
+functionality behind Nixed are,
+
+00:10:15.060 --> 00:10:15.300
+just the fact that UX-wise we cannot get into
+
+00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:18.340
+it or we cannot have it behave nicely with
+
+00:10:20.280 --> 00:10:20.440
+what we do. It's a massive block that is
+
+00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:22.540
+preventing appropriation of such tools.
+
+00:10:25.940 --> 00:10:26.040
+So it might seem very basic to bounce a
+
+00:10:28.300 --> 00:10:28.800
+package at the level of key bindings but
+
+00:10:29.620 --> 00:10:30.120
+that's what we all do.
+
+00:10:32.800 --> 00:10:33.300
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I totally agree.
+
+00:10:36.180 --> 00:10:36.600
+[Speaker 2]: Right, if I can just interrupt,
+
+00:10:38.520 --> 00:10:38.680
+we have about 2 more minutes of questions and
+
+00:10:40.940 --> 00:10:41.320
+I see people are writing more questions.
+
+00:10:42.180 --> 00:10:42.440
+Did you want to add something,
+
+00:10:43.780 --> 00:10:44.280
+Yucheng? On what we're saying?
+
+00:10:47.620 --> 00:10:48.120
+[Speaker 1]: No, no, no, Let's continue.
+
+00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:51.660
+[Speaker 2]: had plenty of time. Okay,
+
+00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:53.260
+I'm going to ask you to be quick about this
+
+00:10:53.860 --> 00:10:54.060
+1. I'm going to read the question,
+
+00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:54.840
+which is slightly long,
+
+00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:56.400
+and you're going to have about 30 seconds to
+
+00:10:57.720 --> 00:10:58.220
+answer it. Do you feel capable of this?
+
+00:10:59.860 --> 00:11:00.360
+[Speaker 1]: I thought we Yeah, let's try it.
+
+00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:03.360
+[Speaker 2]: Let's try it. At least try it.
+
+00:11:05.208 --> 00:11:05.352
+Okay, so quoting, I find the JavaScript trap
+
+00:11:06.680 --> 00:11:06.820
+almost impossible to avoid since I like to
+
+00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:10.860
+buy used stuff online and use my online bank.
+
+00:11:13.140 --> 00:11:13.460
+How do you deal with a JavaScript trap?
+
+00:11:15.400 --> 00:11:15.640
+I use NoScript and compromise on a few things
+
+00:11:16.760 --> 00:11:17.260
+I really feel I cannot live without.
+
+00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:19.440
+EWW is nice for a lot of things,
+
+00:11:21.260 --> 00:11:21.660
+especially with R for less noise,
+
+00:11:23.760 --> 00:11:24.220
+but I need Firefox for those GS and trapped
+
+00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:26.260
+pages. So do you have a quick answer to this?
+
+00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:29.800
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I don't have a good answer,
+
+00:11:30.640 --> 00:11:31.140
+but I have a quick answer.
+
+00:11:38.140 --> 00:11:38.640
+So I use VPN and like a more,
+
+00:11:41.680 --> 00:11:42.180
+what do you call it, move out the Swedish VPN
+
+00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:43.980
+browser, move out browser.
+
+00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:49.160
+Yeah, so I unfortunately I have to use
+
+00:11:50.660 --> 00:11:50.980
+JavaScript in these cases as well,
+
+00:11:53.800 --> 00:11:54.020
+but I try to minimize the use of these
+
+00:11:54.020 --> 00:11:54.520
+things.
+
+00:11:56.920 --> 00:11:57.040
+[Speaker 2]: How long do you think it will take for us to
+
+00:11:58.140 --> 00:11:58.480
+save the world with Emacs,
+
+00:11:59.340 --> 00:11:59.760
+or save the web at least?
+
+00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:01.560
+5 years, 10 years, maybe a little less than
+
+00:12:01.560 --> 00:12:02.060
+this?
+
+00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:07.000
+[Speaker 1]: Well I think it's, unfortunately it's
+
+00:12:08.300 --> 00:12:08.800
+probably independent of Emacs,
+
+00:12:12.180 --> 00:12:12.680
+like it will only be saved when,
+
+00:12:14.860 --> 00:12:14.970
+like it's saved on like the normal,
+
+00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:19.460
+the more popular browsers like Firefox.
+
+00:12:23.680 --> 00:12:24.060
+I have no clue how long it will take for,
+
+00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:25.620
+I don't know, for example,
+
+00:12:28.660 --> 00:12:29.140
+Tala to pick up so that you can buy things
+
+00:12:30.020 --> 00:12:30.520
+without running JavaScript.
+
+00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:33.340
+[Speaker 2]: Right. Well, I guess we'll have to cross our
+
+00:12:35.380 --> 00:12:35.740
+fingers then for Firefox to save the world.
+
+00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:37.500
+All right Yuchen, we're about out of time,
+
+00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:39.080
+we're moving on to the next talk in 20
+
+00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:40.360
+seconds. Thank you so much for your
+
+00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:42.100
+presentation and for waking up early and
+
+00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:42.780
+answering the question,
+
+00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:45.060
+and I can tell you, you were very alert and
+
+00:12:47.020 --> 00:12:47.520
+definitely more energetic than I was.
+
+00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:53.100
+All right, see you later.
+
+00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:54.440
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you. See you.
+
+00:12:58.400 --> 00:12:58.900
+[Speaker 2]: Bye. And we go to the next talk right now.
+
+00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:03.120
+[Speaker 0]: You are currently
+
+00:13:15.260 --> 00:13:15.760
+you
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-windows--windows-into-freedom--corwin-brust--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-windows--windows-into-freedom--corwin-brust--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7dbb18c5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-windows--windows-into-freedom--corwin-brust--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1394 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00.000 --> 00:06.880
+Oh, wow, how exciting. Well, maybe I should share something then. Um, well, thank you very much and
+
+00:06.880 --> 00:14.800
+welcome to, uh, uh, welcome to my talk. I'm a little distracted here. I had a friend who came
+
+00:14.800 --> 00:20.320
+over and just brought me a whole bunch of peanut butter cups, homemade peanut butter cups. Maybe
+
+00:20.320 --> 00:26.400
+I'll show those off, uh, later. What? Okay. Here, uh, put it right there.
+
+00:33.840 --> 00:41.760
+Okay. So I'm going to, uh, get over to my plan, uh, stuff I'm sharing here, hopefully.
+
+00:42.800 --> 00:48.640
+Uh, and, and we'll jump, jump right in because I'm going to need as much time as I can possibly
+
+00:48.640 --> 00:55.520
+have today. Thanks so much for, uh, joining me for Emacs conference and for, especially for,
+
+00:56.400 --> 01:03.520
+um, all of you who, who, who participated, you know, in the discussions, contributing talks and,
+
+01:03.520 --> 01:09.600
+um, you know, uh, you know, including running the, the, the, and it's just so much fun to be here.
+
+01:09.600 --> 01:16.320
+Um, I guess while I'm standing here and, and saying stuff that's, that I'm going to have to
+
+01:16.320 --> 01:23.280
+transcribe, cause I didn't, uh, prepare a recorded version. Uh, I had a lot of trouble
+
+01:23.280 --> 01:28.880
+trimming this down so I can solve that problem by just talking a lot at the beginning, uh,
+
+01:28.880 --> 01:37.120
+about other stuff. Um, so in addition to the thanks, I just want to say thanks also to the
+
+01:37.120 --> 01:41.920
+folks on the development list that helped me kind of come up to speed on this. I won't make a big
+
+01:41.920 --> 01:48.880
+list here, but, um, and, and, and for all that I've learned from my previous conferences, it's
+
+01:48.880 --> 01:55.200
+just, I can't stress enough what a great opportunity volunteering for, uh, free software related things
+
+01:55.200 --> 02:00.080
+are, uh, as a way to get involved. People will just totally teach you how to be helpful and I'm
+
+02:00.080 --> 02:18.800
+loving it. I can preview the stream, but it's not super easy right now. I got all my screens
+
+02:18.800 --> 02:23.680
+kind of dedicated to other stuff. So should I pause for a second before I get into the slides?
+
+02:23.680 --> 02:27.680
+Cause that's, they're, they'll be hard to see if I'm not full screen.
+
+02:29.440 --> 02:34.240
+Yeah, that would be nice. Okay. Well, I'll keep ad libbing then cause I just have a million,
+
+02:34.240 --> 02:42.960
+uh, things I can say. Um, uh, so, uh, let me just quickly talk, uh, things that aren't in here.
+
+02:42.960 --> 02:50.320
+Um, I'm going to mention the mysis2.org and the, that project, which provides a port
+
+02:51.280 --> 03:03.520
+of, uh, the GNU, uh, uh, glibc and a lot of GNU and, uh, uh, their free software. Um, so, uh,
+
+03:03.520 --> 03:03.840
+I don't...
+
+03:03.840 --> 03:07.760
+All right, I'm switching a room to, uh, a DVD room to Stefan.
+
+03:12.080 --> 03:15.440
+All right. So I'm going to take mumble out of my, uh, pardon me, folks.
+
+03:16.080 --> 03:18.640
+It's going to take mumble out of my speakers here.
+
+03:22.800 --> 03:30.080
+Okay. We'll take the speakers out of play entirely and I'll just switch to some headphones.
+
+03:33.600 --> 03:34.720
+All right. So...
+
+03:36.720 --> 03:42.240
+Perfect. What an amazing amount of time. All right. So thanks a lot. Uh, today I've got a jam
+
+03:42.400 --> 03:48.720
+packed talk. Um, I've, I've done my best to make, to make this not too overwhelming,
+
+03:48.720 --> 03:55.040
+but overall we're going to try to try to actually build, um, Emacs while we're talking today.
+
+03:55.040 --> 04:00.400
+And we might actually build several Emacs. Uh, so let's take a look at that real quick.
+
+04:00.400 --> 04:08.160
+Um, so over here we have a screen where I am just once a minute looking, uh,
+
+04:08.480 --> 04:15.360
+uh, indirectly at whether there have been any pushes, uh, upstream to either the Emacs 29 or
+
+04:15.360 --> 04:24.320
+Emacs 30 branches. So I've arranged for us to sort of keep an eye on that, um, while we talk.
+
+04:24.320 --> 04:30.000
+And, you know, maybe that's, that's one thing that we'll do. And then additionally, we'll probably
+
+04:30.640 --> 04:36.640
+fire up a shell. This is the MySys2 environment that I talked about before,
+
+04:36.640 --> 04:42.160
+and we'll probably create some directories and things. But before we get into all that, let's,
+
+04:42.160 --> 04:48.080
+let's give some, some context. Uh, I've been doing my best to try to, uh, make sure all this
+
+04:48.080 --> 04:54.240
+information is on the Emacs wiki as well. So, uh, sorry, as I said, I got a little caught off guard.
+
+04:54.240 --> 05:02.640
+So I'm moving my foot pedals to the floor, back to the floor here. And I should be able to advance
+
+05:02.640 --> 05:11.760
+slides here. All right. So, um, I kind of provided some special definitions for things. I'm going to
+
+05:11.760 --> 05:21.680
+kind of level set with those. The, uh, um, when I say a binary release, I'm talking about some,
+
+05:21.680 --> 05:27.440
+some, uh, I'm talking about Emacs for Windows as, uh, just ready to run out of its folder or
+
+05:28.080 --> 05:35.600
+in whatever similar form. The, when I say a build, I'm talking about kind of a process of doing that.
+
+05:36.400 --> 05:41.040
+Um, when Emacs.get, of course, that's the upstream hosted by GNU Savannah.
+
+05:41.600 --> 05:51.680
+The Emacs release is, is a tarball created from that. The sources for, um, Emacs are going to be
+
+05:51.680 --> 05:58.480
+one of those two things, um, very specifically. So I'm not going to talk about patches patching.
+
+05:58.480 --> 06:06.720
+There's some implications there. Perhaps we'll get into it. Uh, so a snapshot is when I build
+
+06:06.720 --> 06:14.880
+from anything other than a release source, uh, a tarball. Um, just if I, if I say that I'm talking
+
+06:14.880 --> 06:23.600
+specifically about the, uh, the XZ version of the file as, as a technical point. Um,
+
+06:23.600 --> 06:32.480
+so that may come up. All right. Nothing else I think up my sleeve. Um, the, uh, as, as a key
+
+06:32.480 --> 06:38.320
+data point, it's worth understanding that there's a file called configure AC. It's going to be
+
+06:38.320 --> 06:46.160
+processed, uh, as part of auto-conf. We, we initially access that when we run, um, auto-gen
+
+06:46.160 --> 06:52.720
+as you'll see in a little bit. Um, the, but before, but, uh, so the auto-gen script will
+
+06:52.720 --> 07:00.160
+generally consider this, uh, so in a release build, um, this has been thought about kind of for us as
+
+07:00.240 --> 07:10.480
+part of, um, making the tarball. Um, the configure.ac, um, yeah, I think I pretty much covered,
+
+07:10.480 --> 07:16.880
+covered this. So, um, those, those that kind of partially built status, that's a,
+
+07:16.880 --> 07:22.640
+might be another phrase that you hear me use. So this slide unpacks that a little more.
+
+07:22.880 --> 07:29.520
+Um, so it can be a little confusing to understand what exactly the, you know, what is it, you know,
+
+07:29.520 --> 07:36.160
+how stable is Emacs depending on what I have. So the, I got a kind of set of rules of thumb here,
+
+07:36.160 --> 07:43.680
+right? First I want the highest, uh, you know, dot, uh, dot release value that I can get,
+
+07:43.680 --> 07:50.080
+assuming that that's higher than one. If it's, if it were to only be one, let's say,
+
+07:50.160 --> 07:58.560
+if it were to only be one, let's say my choices were 29.1 and 30.1, I would take 30.1. Um,
+
+07:59.200 --> 08:05.520
+cause that's, that's weird. But, um, what you'll normally see is you might see a 28.2,
+
+08:06.080 --> 08:15.760
+you might see a 29.1. So here I think 28.2 is got the most, most, most stable, um,
+
+08:16.560 --> 08:26.160
+set, uh, the, uh, or set of release binaries. The 29.1 will, will have a little more features,
+
+08:26.160 --> 08:33.680
+but will tend to be more stable than, uh, any, uh, lower point releases for 29, uh, certainly
+
+08:33.680 --> 08:39.600
+than any release candidates for 29, which might even have new features, um, but are mostly going
+
+08:39.600 --> 08:46.000
+to just be packages. So they're going to become the most stable thing here. And especially if
+
+08:46.000 --> 08:53.600
+they, they, they have a, you know, if this, this is not, uh, if this were to be 29.2 release
+
+08:53.600 --> 09:04.960
+candidate one as well, looking forward to seeing, um, the, uh, 30.50. Um, and, and in between this,
+
+09:04.960 --> 09:11.840
+this pretest here, we're talking about kind of developer land. Um, so, um, the expectation is
+
+09:11.840 --> 09:16.560
+that, you know, what you're doing that applies to windows users, uh, just as much if you are
+
+09:16.560 --> 09:22.960
+building anything in the snapshot range, any of that is going to be in this 30.0.50. Currently
+
+09:22.960 --> 09:32.240
+that'll change when the, uh, when the 30, 30, uh, an Emacs 30 release tags, uh, or release branches
+
+09:32.240 --> 09:42.880
+come. Okay. So let's talk about the local. Um, there's not much to know about what I have going
+
+09:42.880 --> 09:51.200
+on, except that I have my, my paths mess messed with. So, um, if, if that, that were to come up,
+
+09:51.200 --> 09:57.120
+if you're wondering how, why does this, uh, and insist command work, that's probably the place
+
+09:57.120 --> 10:03.760
+where you'd notice it. Uh, I am using windows 10. I haven't tried windows 11, uh, as mentioned,
+
+10:03.760 --> 10:09.520
+mysis2 is critical to all this. There's one script in particular that will error out if you try to do
+
+10:09.520 --> 10:16.560
+anything other than use mysis's, mysis's shell. And in fact, mysis owns or provides three shells
+
+10:16.560 --> 10:21.760
+and of them, that script is designed to work with a specific one of them as, as we'll come to.
+
+10:22.720 --> 10:29.120
+Uh, I don't talk about installing the dependencies, but just as, as kind of some kind of help,
+
+10:29.680 --> 10:38.480
+um, you can search using this formula and install, uh, using this formula.
+
+10:38.480 --> 10:40.800
+Good luck with those, you know, grep commands.
+
+10:43.520 --> 10:49.440
+And this is the tool for building the self-installing self-extracting installer or, uh,
+
+10:49.520 --> 10:55.600
+executable self-installer. Um, the script for that is provided along with the Emacs source.
+
+10:56.720 --> 11:03.280
+Um, and I've provided a helpful link to the main page for the project download link on the left.
+
+11:03.280 --> 11:09.680
+It is not, um, it's kind of scare where the way that this link appears, but I have clicked it and
+
+11:09.680 --> 11:18.960
+it's working for me. Automation does, uh, we'll, we have some time we'll be looking at this at a
+
+11:18.960 --> 11:24.560
+minimum. I wanted to mention that what I do on my local, what you're seeing in the crawler, I hope,
+
+11:25.280 --> 11:35.600
+uh, represents a, uh, a simple sleep loop. Uh, and we'll, we'll look into that if we have time.
+
+11:36.560 --> 11:42.960
+Um, I do have a little bit, I do use like a cron job and so on to clean up some hosting that,
+
+11:42.960 --> 11:50.160
+that I pay for, um, where I've got, where I, where I kind of self host some, uh, snapshots,
+
+11:50.720 --> 11:58.880
+more stuff than I feel comfortable uploading to, uh, to GNU. The, um,
+
+12:01.760 --> 12:06.480
+you know, I never said, uh, my name is Corwin Brust. For the last couple of years, I've been
+
+12:06.480 --> 12:12.480
+the volunteer making, uh, um, making the snapshots, the quote unquote, official binaries,
+
+12:12.480 --> 12:20.560
+uh, for windows of the, um, of, of Emacs for windows. So that's, that's all the different
+
+12:20.560 --> 12:25.680
+versions. Uh, help is always welcome with that. I'd be very happy to teach you in more depth.
+
+12:25.680 --> 12:31.920
+This video is, you know, kind of my drop dead file. Uh, I don't have specific plans. Uh, if
+
+12:31.920 --> 12:36.480
+somebody's like, Hey, get out of the way, this is the one thing I think I can do. Um, Hey,
+
+12:36.480 --> 12:44.640
+that's real relatable. Okay. Um, so I haven't tried, uh, the, I haven't tried a lot of fun
+
+12:44.640 --> 12:50.400
+things that I won't talk about. Um, the, uh, the rest of this talk is going to get into the
+
+12:50.400 --> 12:56.560
+nitty gritty. As I said, um, if we can't convince Emacs to start building over on that screen,
+
+12:56.560 --> 13:05.120
+we'll be opening it up here on the center stage. Um, uh, this begins and there's, there's, there's,
+
+13:05.120 --> 13:11.520
+there's great insight here too, on the wiki, uh, with picking an FTP source for any official
+
+13:11.520 --> 13:19.760
+release that is for a stable product, please visit, um, ftp.gnu.org. Otherwise you'll want
+
+13:19.760 --> 13:27.280
+to switch that FTP dot at the beginning to alpha dot and take a pretest, uh, or any snapshot or
+
+13:27.280 --> 13:36.640
+otherwise, then publish there the, uh, next, uh, you know, I'm gonna, you have some examples in
+
+13:36.640 --> 13:43.440
+here that assume that you're doing a release bill that you're doing $29 one, but, um, I am glancing
+
+13:43.520 --> 13:51.440
+out of the, the right side of my face at the chat on the opt-ins. Anybody in there wants to direct
+
+13:51.440 --> 13:57.840
+me at a particular, um, we can make some other, we can build something else. If you want to see
+
+13:57.840 --> 14:03.840
+a snapshot build more mentioned that, um, the examples that you're going to see here that I
+
+14:03.840 --> 14:12.560
+will, without other direction, cut and paste, um, are all, uh, based on the release bill. So,
+
+14:14.640 --> 14:22.320
+um, so, uh, we'll use the, uh, I mentioned that there are several shells provided by MySys2.
+
+14:22.960 --> 14:33.120
+The MinGW64 shell is the one that we mostly need. Um, I tested all of this as well with the MinGW32
+
+14:33.120 --> 14:40.400
+shell. Um, so that, that should work and, and see mix binaries that, that, that work for me.
+
+14:44.080 --> 14:50.720
+Uh, I, as I mentioned, I don't get into the details of installing all your prerequisites.
+
+14:50.720 --> 14:56.560
+I found that doing it in a headfirst manner wasn't, uh, wasn't difficult. And I also found
+
+14:56.560 --> 15:00.240
+that there's a number of tutorials. I didn't want to pick one to link here.
+
+15:01.040 --> 15:10.800
+Um, there, uh, here, uh, okay. So our general formula for building Emacs, irrespective of
+
+15:10.800 --> 15:19.600
+Windows, looks like, does the configure script exist if not run autogen? From a Windows build
+
+15:19.600 --> 15:27.600
+standpoint, this is, if I'm not running a release, release build, call the autogen script.
+
+15:27.840 --> 15:32.080
+Right. And this would be in the directory where we want to pack this. I'll demonstrate
+
+15:32.080 --> 15:42.640
+within three minutes if, uh, if one, if nobody's pushed upstream to Emacs. Um, so, uh, the configure,
+
+15:42.640 --> 15:53.280
+uh, and, uh, configure options are, uh, uh, the, the configure, you know, if the configure, sorry,
+
+15:54.240 --> 16:01.520
+the configure script exists, then, uh, it doesn't, doesn't exist. So the only reason,
+
+16:01.520 --> 16:07.920
+so in my process, I will always execute that step because I clean everything after every build,
+
+16:07.920 --> 16:16.880
+um, in all my contexts. Um, however, if you were, you know, had a, a checkout of emacs.get
+
+16:16.880 --> 16:21.440
+and you are building it at several releases, then maybe you've got a configure script and then you
+
+16:21.440 --> 16:27.600
+all want to know, um, the, you know, whether you have to bootstrap and the typical complexities,
+
+16:27.600 --> 16:33.200
+but otherwise you might be able to skip that in, in, in the abstract. Um,
+
+16:36.080 --> 16:41.520
+is that right? Or is it, is it the make, uh, so, and if they make file doesn't exist,
+
+16:41.520 --> 16:46.080
+make install. I know I'm looking at that in question whether it's correct. Sorry about that.
+
+16:46.640 --> 16:55.600
+Um, in any case, uh, so auto-gen configure make install is our recipe. Auto-gen creates the
+
+16:55.600 --> 17:01.840
+configure script, configure creates the make file, the make file. Um, in the case of windows,
+
+17:01.840 --> 17:08.080
+I almost always want the install, uh, and to specify some location where the installed emacs
+
+17:08.080 --> 17:19.120
+will land. This is where all of the recipes for packaging emacs go. And if I were, uh, you know,
+
+17:19.120 --> 17:24.640
+using this as a movie to upgrade, I personally would do that by, by specifying an install path,
+
+17:24.640 --> 17:31.520
+quote unquote, on top of, uh, a main installation. I don't do that. I update shortcuts mainly based
+
+17:31.520 --> 17:37.600
+on what specifically I want to try, uh, in an effort to, to, to, to notice, uh, interesting
+
+17:37.600 --> 17:44.400
+patches and confirm they work on windows, which mostly they do. There's not a lot of code in my
+
+17:44.400 --> 17:49.760
+experience that is, uh, windows specific and very, very little around the build process.
+
+17:50.320 --> 17:57.440
+All right. Huge rabbit hole zone. And I still have a minute before I have to, uh, kick off
+
+17:57.440 --> 18:07.120
+the first part of our demo. So let's, let's keep, keep diving in, um, the, those specific part
+
+18:07.120 --> 18:11.920
+windows specific parts beside the dot exe extension that we're going to find slammed
+
+18:11.920 --> 18:17.680
+onto all of our familiar, uh, executables. We're also going to have emacs client W,
+
+18:18.400 --> 18:26.880
+which is a wrapper that hides, um, how hard it is to get, uh, to, to, to get it,
+
+18:27.600 --> 18:31.760
+how bad the abstraction is between the window management layer and the GUI,
+
+18:32.400 --> 18:37.040
+and then all the different parts on windows. Essentially, it wants to create a shell window.
+
+18:37.040 --> 18:42.960
+If we just double click emacs dot exe. So emacs client W, uh, and run emacs,
+
+18:42.960 --> 18:49.440
+they're going to solve that problem. Um, uh, wrapping emacs and emacs client respectively.
+
+18:51.600 --> 19:00.320
+And, um, just, uh, all right. So let's, let's go ahead and do something. I'll, I'm going to
+
+19:00.320 --> 19:08.080
+take away the ticker here for a minute. And what you're not seeing is off stage. I am killing that
+
+19:08.080 --> 19:19.680
+so we don't get built in parallel. Um, so, um, so at this point I'm going to open up a shell and
+
+19:19.680 --> 19:24.240
+I'm going to start talking just a little bit about my local build environment, which we haven't
+
+19:24.240 --> 19:32.640
+gotten into. In fact, just to make that even easier, let's, um, let's just take a look at it
+
+19:32.640 --> 19:40.640
+a little bit. Probably the easiest spot is here.
+
+19:47.680 --> 19:55.280
+All right. So here we have the familiar windows, my computer interface. I have the G drive and the
+
+19:55.680 --> 20:07.200
+H drive, four terabyte drives, um, dedicated to my, um, really overblown emacs build process.
+
+20:08.160 --> 20:14.000
+Um, this just lets me be super lazy. There's no reason you need any massive amount of storage
+
+20:14.000 --> 20:22.080
+to do any of this. Um, inside here, and now I'll actually switch you back to the other screen.
+
+20:23.040 --> 20:26.560
+Um, we'll, we'll find,
+
+20:37.280 --> 20:46.480
+oops, sorry about that. I didn't take the time to label that one. Um, so here you can see
+
+20:46.480 --> 20:53.760
+the primary output that I'm looking at through this automated process. I come along, I look at
+
+20:53.760 --> 20:59.840
+the bug reports, or maybe I'm just restarting my computer and choosing what emacs version at random.
+
+20:59.840 --> 21:06.240
+And then in that case, I look at this modified date and I say, um, my config that I, you know,
+
+21:06.240 --> 21:11.120
+that I'm playing with right now is all set for emacs 30, or I'm testing the both and I'm
+
+21:11.120 --> 21:16.400
+relaunching both of these. Right. So for me, that starts by diving into the install folder,
+
+21:16.400 --> 21:22.720
+going into the bin folder, which looks exactly the way my automation leaves it. I then come in
+
+21:22.720 --> 21:34.320
+to run the run emacs and I create a shortcut, um, to it. So I'm a keyboard person. So that's
+
+21:34.320 --> 21:40.400
+usually done like this. And then I just know that the context menu is going to come up in the right
+
+21:40.400 --> 21:49.120
+place. So I'll come up and, um, possibly change the, change the shortcut, right.
+
+21:53.120 --> 22:01.280
+If I don't mess with it. Um, so here's where I'll add my minus Q, if that's kind of where
+
+22:01.280 --> 22:06.800
+my world was at, or it kind of depends on what I'm doing with these, which varies week to week.
+
+22:07.440 --> 22:12.000
+Um, so restarting my emacs, uh, involves doing the same thing, going to my desktop
+
+22:12.560 --> 22:23.200
+and where you'll find a number of emac shortcuts and, um, updating the shortcut in the same manner
+
+22:23.920 --> 22:28.000
+joint actually, maybe we'll just, let's go back there and just show it.
+
+22:28.000 --> 22:31.600
+So if we look at, for example, my ERC,
+
+22:31.760 --> 22:39.040
+you can see, it's going to be pointing at one of these clones and then it's going to
+
+22:39.760 --> 22:44.720
+maybe tell me that I want, it wants to be full screen. Nope, not currently. And then it might,
+
+22:44.720 --> 22:48.720
+uh, have some stuff in there about auto-loading at config and what
+
+22:48.720 --> 22:52.560
+connections I'm going to, some commands I've defined to start connections.
+
+22:53.280 --> 22:57.680
+All right. And sorry, I got a phone call. I was checking. It wasn't in an org, the org,
+
+22:57.680 --> 23:04.160
+not the other organizers giving me the hook. So, um, all right. So that's, that's probably
+
+23:04.160 --> 23:11.440
+enough on the local system. Let's get back to the, to, to building emacs. And now it hopefully makes
+
+23:11.440 --> 23:17.440
+a certain amount of sense when I say we're going to wander over to the H drive and, and, and, and,
+
+23:17.920 --> 23:22.560
+hopefully makes a certain amount of sense when I say we're going to wander over to the H drive
+
+23:22.560 --> 23:31.520
+and recreate the structure that, um, both my process sort of assumes and the scripts you'll
+
+23:31.520 --> 23:41.440
+find in the admin NT, uh, build disk folder in source used to assume. Those scripts are in need
+
+23:41.440 --> 23:49.440
+of some love. And in just a little bit, I'll be mentioning a build, uh, a, uh, a, a, a particular
+
+23:49.440 --> 23:54.000
+bug that you might want to pay attention to if you're interested in making a self-installer.
+
+23:54.800 --> 24:04.320
+All right. So, um, we're going to create, uh, an emacs build directory.
+
+24:04.320 --> 24:16.960
+And we've got a handy git clone stage, git clone command stage for ourself. That would work. Um,
+
+24:19.360 --> 24:26.160
+do not currently see anybody lobbying for that. So instead we will run the rather faster
+
+24:27.120 --> 24:36.080
+uh, W get command on Savannah, which is not pasted in here. Nice. Let's see if I can freehand it.
+
+24:36.080 --> 24:40.000
+Not going to do it. Uh,
+
+24:40.720 --> 24:41.840
+okay.
+
+24:52.000 --> 24:56.560
+I beg your pardon. I'm grabbing a URL from the internet.
+
+25:00.080 --> 25:06.960
+Uh, okay. Yeah, I can, I can honestly, I can freehand it, whatever. Okay. Sorry. I, uh,
+
+25:07.680 --> 25:13.200
+I didn't have that bookmarked in all handy. Like I thought I did. Um, so we'll just say
+
+25:13.200 --> 25:30.480
+ftp.gnu.org slash, uh, what is it? Pub emacs, emacs-29.1, uh, .org.gnu.org.exe.
+
+25:30.480 --> 25:47.040
+I really think I'd have this command sitting around. It makes me want to scrap the whole
+
+25:47.040 --> 25:54.720
+demo. I'm not going to lie. Okay. How am I doing? Um, I think at least 15 minutes. Um,
+
+25:54.720 --> 25:58.160
+but in the command that you were freehanding, should the pub be GNU instead?
+
+25:59.120 --> 26:01.680
+Oh, thanks. I'm sorry.
+
+26:07.440 --> 26:13.360
+There we go. Thank you. All right. And then we'll,
+
+26:17.760 --> 26:20.160
+and I'm not sure I provided commands for this either,
+
+26:20.720 --> 26:29.600
+but it is trivially easy to do. And while that happens, we'll get to move on a few slides.
+
+26:31.760 --> 26:38.000
+Um, the configure script I'm not talking about in a lot of detail, but I do want to mention that the
+
+26:38.000 --> 26:44.720
+GNU binaries are provided with native, uh, compilation enabled. That's the feature that
+
+26:44.800 --> 26:55.360
+uses gcc lib gcc get on windows. If available, that lib gcc get will be used. Um, but when,
+
+26:55.360 --> 27:03.200
+but, uh, if, if, uh, emacs has that feature, then it will take by compile, uh, native code and,
+
+27:03.200 --> 27:10.880
+uh, asynchronously compile that as needed, uh, with the ahead of time feature. We're going to
+
+27:10.880 --> 27:15.360
+do as much of that ahead of time. And for folks that are consuming the windows binary, the
+
+27:15.360 --> 27:21.360
+thinking goes that they might not have my assist too. They might not have lib gcc jet. They might
+
+27:21.360 --> 27:28.560
+be happy that they're enabled in a, you know, a lot of time running emacs on their local environments
+
+27:30.400 --> 27:39.120
+at all, you know, in a, maybe a lockdown, uh, corporate context. So aside that, um, there's
+
+27:39.120 --> 27:45.120
+your first glimpse at the configure, um, program that we're going to run in a moment. In fact,
+
+27:45.120 --> 27:52.160
+I'm going to go as far as putting it on the clipboard. Um, really just looking at this,
+
+27:52.160 --> 27:57.120
+the AOT flag is the one I'd call attention to, but it's worth understanding that windows doesn't
+
+27:57.120 --> 28:02.000
+provide a D bus capability. So windows native program isn't going to be able to depend on D
+
+28:02.000 --> 28:07.600
+bus. We're going to, we're going to explicitly ask that that be left out. I think that's actually
+
+28:07.600 --> 28:12.080
+optional and it's documentation. I think the configure program is smart enough to know that
+
+28:12.080 --> 28:20.080
+we don't want D bus on windows. Um, otherwise we tend to compile with things. Um, there there's
+
+28:20.080 --> 28:26.320
+missing documentation. We could say the, uh, all of the libraries are treated in the way I mentioned
+
+28:26.320 --> 28:34.880
+in that, um, JPEG support will be available as long as the JPEG is, is available in our environment
+
+28:34.880 --> 28:40.320
+and configure script certainly notices that, um, the GNU provided binaries are provided with
+
+28:40.320 --> 28:47.280
+minus O2. And that's also my default personally on windows. Um, however, and I'm going to skip
+
+28:47.280 --> 28:59.680
+this since I mentioned it, um, mentioned, uh, and, uh, um, so I guess I'll say, um, you can,
+
+28:59.680 --> 29:06.560
+um, say with the, it's worth knowing that you, if you're not one reason that, that you're building
+
+29:06.560 --> 29:11.200
+might be because you want to turn off native compilation for whatever reason. If you have
+
+29:11.200 --> 29:16.640
+low juices, you get, get, but don't want Emacs to use it. Uh, especially as that default looks like
+
+29:16.640 --> 29:26.480
+it could be changing with Emacs 30. Um, the, uh, the debug configuration, um, this is, this is the,
+
+29:26.480 --> 29:33.200
+uh, kind of, uh, what, what I'm currently using this on commentary, uh, I've seen on the next
+
+29:33.200 --> 29:45.280
+development list. Let's check on our checkout and see if we can't get a build running. Um,
+
+29:45.280 --> 29:51.440
+this is a release build, so I won't be starting with, uh, so we'll start by hopping into its
+
+29:51.440 --> 30:14.080
+directory and we, um, we have, uh, but not. Okay. So that tells us we're going to run
+
+30:14.640 --> 30:23.440
+our configure program, but we don't need to run a config IC. So,
+
+30:31.280 --> 30:34.320
+so let's get that going and, uh,
+
+30:36.000 --> 30:41.360
+hopefully that's showing through just enough to be fun, not too much to be distracting.
+
+30:45.040 --> 30:55.760
+Um, the, uh, the unoptimized, uh, uh, um, please report issues. If your Emacs is crashing,
+
+30:55.760 --> 31:01.200
+uh, to the Emacs development list, not to me personally. Um, although you are of course,
+
+31:01.200 --> 31:06.960
+welcome to copy me. Um, if you especially I'm subscribed to that list, so I get all the mail.
+
+31:06.960 --> 31:14.000
+So I don't mind being copied. Uh, and, uh, as well, if you think it's, uh,
+
+31:15.040 --> 31:20.160
+you know, related to packaging, that actually makes sense or windows related to even, and,
+
+31:20.160 --> 31:25.120
+uh, it can be tested with an extra snapshot that should be uploaded to the canoe alpha side.
+
+31:25.120 --> 31:31.600
+I could look at that if I have time. There's with the configure script to make file for
+
+31:32.160 --> 31:39.840
+Emacs is really, really complicated. If time permits, which I'm now confident it will not,
+
+31:39.840 --> 31:44.240
+we will look at, uh, make file that I tried writing that, uh, orchestrates this whole
+
+31:44.240 --> 31:52.160
+process that I'm talking about. Um, as, uh, let's see. So the build, uh, build process,
+
+31:52.160 --> 32:03.120
+I run my builds with, uh, explosively specifying the max CPU, uh, with minus J, but minus B one
+
+32:03.120 --> 32:08.320
+to get the full build, uh, full log into your recipes. That is probably the magic thing.
+
+32:09.040 --> 32:12.560
+Matt, um, shouldn't to understand what, uh,
+
+32:16.000 --> 32:23.600
+or that, uh, that, that, uh, that I'm glad that I know, uh, as I'm trying to write my automations,
+
+32:26.960 --> 32:36.080
+uh, the, um, so I call that out here, the binary, uh, releases. Um, okay. So in this section,
+
+32:36.080 --> 32:41.120
+we're going to start to get into what are all those files. And there's a bug report related to
+
+32:41.120 --> 32:46.640
+that, but I didn't get into here. So, um, that's kind of to the point about the less said about
+
+32:46.640 --> 32:50.800
+this, the better, uh, that's my explanation for stepping through some of these slides.
+
+32:50.800 --> 32:58.240
+Uh, of course we'll share them all, uh, uh, hopefully by the time that this video is published.
+
+32:58.960 --> 33:06.640
+Oh, I mentioned, um, I may have mentioned already freshly installed, but, uh, fully installed. Uh,
+
+33:06.640 --> 33:15.200
+the, the, the key distinction here is that, uh, Emacs is distributed in the binary form for Windows
+
+33:15.200 --> 33:21.600
+with some DLL files that actually come from the mysys2 project. There's an implication there to
+
+33:21.760 --> 33:26.160
+there's an implication there to GCC that I definitely want to get to it talking about.
+
+33:28.080 --> 33:35.840
+Um, so freshly installed means we haven't copied those binaries from the mysys2, uh,
+
+33:35.840 --> 33:45.360
+installation into the Emacs, uh, installation. Uh, and then, uh, when we re-archived that
+
+33:45.360 --> 33:48.640
+local Emacs installation, that's how we're going to create the full zip.
+
+33:48.640 --> 33:54.160
+So hopefully that actually is a pretty good summary of what all those files are. Um, but
+
+33:54.160 --> 34:00.320
+there are readme files, uh, on the FTP that do a pretty good job, um, if you can dig enough to find
+
+34:00.320 --> 34:11.120
+one and my apologies for, uh, tardiness getting a new version on that posted. Um, the Emacs, uh,
+
+34:11.120 --> 34:17.040
+so those dependencies, uh, are listed within Emacs itself. And as we'll just talk about in a moment,
+
+34:17.040 --> 34:24.240
+there's a way, uh, that we can use, we can access that when we collect them in order to meet, uh,
+
+34:24.240 --> 34:31.840
+the GCC requirement that is essentially to include, um, include the sources for the,
+
+34:31.840 --> 34:41.200
+for those binaries, the things that were compiled against. Um, the, uh, so, so here we go,
+
+34:41.200 --> 34:45.280
+we're, we're into the build process. Let's just take a look and see if configure it got done.
+
+34:45.280 --> 34:52.240
+It sure did. And now we can see a table of, of hopefully good, but good and bad news, um,
+
+34:52.240 --> 34:57.840
+and potential, um, where we're learning that we're using the pdumper strategy and any number of other
+
+34:57.840 --> 35:04.320
+things that we might be messing with as our motivation for, for building ourselves on Emacs.
+
+35:04.320 --> 35:12.560
+Um, again, this table represents, uh, what you'll, what, what, what it looks like for me when I'm
+
+35:12.560 --> 35:22.720
+building for the GNU distributed binaries. All right. So, um, kind of moving, moving as quickly
+
+35:22.720 --> 35:31.200
+as I can here. I'm at 40 after, I believe that's the five minute mark. So, um, having just succeeded
+
+35:31.200 --> 35:37.040
+in, in configuring Emacs, I don't think we're going to build it. Uh, uh, I don't think we're
+
+35:37.040 --> 35:42.720
+going to actually get to running make install. Um, but I have it sitting here on my keyboard
+
+35:43.280 --> 35:54.320
+or clipboard, assuming that we will, right? No. Oh, wow. I think I've managed to confuse this.
+
+35:54.320 --> 36:06.240
+All right. So for me, that looks simply like, uh, make, uh, V equals one install, uh,
+
+36:08.160 --> 36:11.040
+prefix equals, uh,
+
+36:18.400 --> 36:19.920
+and we can at least get it kicked off.
+
+36:20.640 --> 36:27.680
+And that can, that command is just, uh, just is no, no different than I showed on the slide where
+
+36:27.680 --> 36:32.160
+I, where I gave it, uh, wasn't planning to stop and explain it. I was just planning to paste it.
+
+36:33.360 --> 36:38.640
+So, so, so again, recapping the rest of the process here and maybe actually making it,
+
+36:38.640 --> 36:44.320
+if you can believe it or not, through the rest of these slides, um, we, to, to, to create the
+
+36:44.800 --> 36:49.600
+full set of binaries, we're going to need a no dependent, no depths archive. That's without the
+
+36:49.600 --> 36:57.760
+mysys2, uh, deal provided DLLs, just the things that we compile as part of making Emacs. Um,
+
+37:00.320 --> 37:07.840
+the, uh, the build depths zip script is provided with the source distribution is your tool for,
+
+37:07.840 --> 37:11.760
+uh, meeting the GPL requirements, right? Source as mentioned before,
+
+37:12.640 --> 37:18.560
+um, there is a second bug that I did, uh, include some more information on in my notes already.
+
+37:19.680 --> 37:25.600
+Um, that, uh, that gets into the details of this other feature I alluded to.
+
+37:26.480 --> 37:35.120
+Um, I'll just skip into that. Um, we, we can, with, with, uh, with a, an appropriate version
+
+37:35.680 --> 37:42.240
+of that, which you may need a patch, uh, to, to have, you can list out the dependencies
+
+37:42.240 --> 37:47.200
+and, and that version as well. Can consider the dependencies of the Emacs binary versus
+
+37:47.200 --> 37:51.680
+the hard-coded list you might find, depending on when you look at this file in the source tree.
+
+37:53.680 --> 38:01.360
+The diff, um, so I also have a hack here that, uh, works around the absolute requirement to
+
+38:01.600 --> 38:18.320
+run this with the mysys2 and not the minGW64 script. Um, once we've made that zip file that
+
+38:18.320 --> 38:25.360
+contain that's, that's our installed Emacs without the DLLs provided by mysys2, we'll then unpack
+
+38:25.360 --> 38:30.960
+the dependencies that were created by that Python script we just talked about from the Emacs source
+
+38:30.960 --> 38:38.080
+tree. At that point, once those are unpacked, we can now make what's called the full installer,
+
+38:38.080 --> 38:42.800
+or sometimes I might call it the unqualified installer, because it's just going to be called
+
+38:42.800 --> 38:54.800
+Emacs29.1.zip. Um, and that, uh, that file, which, which creates the, the, the, the, the,
+
+38:54.800 --> 39:02.640
+which creates the archive, uh, that, uh, that, that, that file is exactly the same,
+
+39:02.640 --> 39:08.400
+plus the, uh, the dependencies that we unzipped in the bin folder of the installed Emacs.
+
+39:09.680 --> 39:14.480
+The, uh, executable self-installer, which I would love to have more time to talk about.
+
+39:14.480 --> 39:18.720
+I gave a few pointers here on the hard part of running it. Most importantly,
+
+39:19.680 --> 39:26.640
+if I've installed in any kind of funny looking name, I end up renaming it to like Emacs-29.1
+
+39:26.640 --> 39:35.200
+or Emacs-29. or 30.0.50 or whatever. And I just renamed that installed Emacs folder.
+
+39:35.200 --> 39:39.680
+And then I go to the root of wherever I created that, the parent directory above it.
+
+39:40.320 --> 39:46.560
+And that's where I make my copy of the Emacs NSI, um, the, the NSIS script.
+
+39:47.520 --> 39:55.600
+And, uh, that's also where I, and then, um, then from that parent directory, I execute,
+
+39:55.600 --> 40:02.560
+uh, making sys, uh, here. I, as mentioned, um, I, I can get away with this because I have it
+
+40:02.560 --> 40:07.520
+on my path and it's my recollection. I think I tested this and couldn't reproduce the problem.
+
+40:07.520 --> 40:11.200
+So I didn't document it here, but I've had some problems with running this
+
+40:11.200 --> 40:20.400
+when, uh, when NSIS wasn't on my path. The, uh, the, the, the final step here
+
+40:20.400 --> 40:27.600
+and the last, the GPL requirement is to include all the sources, except when I'm doing a release
+
+40:27.600 --> 40:34.320
+build, I always do this. Um, and that's the new practice when making Snapchat binaries is to go
+
+40:34.320 --> 40:39.840
+ahead and include the sources, even though we might have the specific revision number, um,
+
+40:39.840 --> 40:46.800
+our thinking is we want absolute clarity, um, that, that somebody, uh, can say, okay,
+
+40:46.800 --> 40:51.200
+this binary did this thing, send me the source for it. I'm going to go take that into my own
+
+40:51.200 --> 40:56.800
+open source, or yeah, maybe they would, the jerks, um, into my own open source project.
+
+40:56.880 --> 41:03.360
+And, um, you know, off they go, uh, and that needs to be possible.
+
+41:04.800 --> 41:12.480
+Um, so, um, beyond that, the rest of this is, is really detailed that you find covered in the GNU
+
+41:12.480 --> 41:19.520
+maintainers manual. Um, this is the, the current set of Windows binaries that, um, it's busily
+
+41:19.520 --> 41:29.040
+working on creating a like for like a mirror to behind the scenes here is called a 29.1 underscore
+
+41:29.040 --> 41:36.080
+two. Um, and I have a lot of automation, uh, available on this site. So at this point,
+
+41:36.080 --> 41:45.200
+I'm just, I think I'm only a minute, 40 seconds over. I'm gonna invite my, uh, co-organizers
+
+41:45.200 --> 41:49.760
+back onto the call or any volunteers that want to jump in and anybody, if there's people on the
+
+41:49.760 --> 41:57.440
+BBB, I'd be happy to take questions. If there aren't, um, I have a screen full of, uh, the
+
+41:57.440 --> 42:04.080
+automation stuff ready to go as a kind of a second ring in my circus today. So if you're still with
+
+42:04.080 --> 42:08.640
+me, thanks a lot for joining me. And I really enjoyed this talk. Uh, if this is where we're
+
+42:08.640 --> 42:14.560
+going to close it out, I don't know where we're at for schedule today. Thanks a lot for a great
+
+42:14.560 --> 42:20.880
+talk, Corwin. Um, in terms of like schedule, yeah, you went over a little bit for the official,
+
+42:20.880 --> 42:26.880
+like, um, schedule or time of your talk, but I think, uh, we actually have maybe like six or
+
+42:26.880 --> 42:32.640
+seven more minutes, um, here on stream for, um, questions and such, if folks have questions,
+
+42:32.640 --> 42:38.320
+or if you want to like quickly maybe show one or two more things. Um, but I think the hard stuff
+
+42:38.320 --> 42:43.520
+is about like maybe 10 minutes ish for now. And then we'll have to rush over to, um, uh, for the
+
+42:43.520 --> 42:55.520
+closing remarks. So, well, that sounds awesome. Okay. So I'm looking at the, the dev chat. Uh,
+
+42:55.520 --> 43:01.040
+I see a comment on cross-compiling the emacs, but I'm sorry, I'm looking at IRC primarily, but,
+
+43:01.040 --> 43:08.080
+uh, feel free to jump in if you're on, uh, BBB with me, or, uh, uh, if, if you put something on
+
+43:08.160 --> 43:16.400
+the pad, I'm sure, uh, we'll see it between the two of us, uh, over here. Okay. So cross-compiling
+
+43:16.400 --> 43:20.640
+emacs for Serenity. I haven't tried really any cross-compiling. I think that would be very
+
+43:20.640 --> 43:28.240
+interesting. I would most likely focus on doing exactly what I do on a GNU system, completely
+
+43:28.240 --> 43:35.760
+ditching. Um, so I guess with my, my remaining time, rather than walking through code, um, for
+
+43:35.760 --> 43:42.080
+my automation, which can be another talk, if in fact there's an interest in that, um, I want to,
+
+43:42.080 --> 43:48.480
+I guess, say a couple of words about the non-free operating system that I'm using here. I did my
+
+43:48.480 --> 43:58.880
+best to use no non-free software other than the, uh, the operating system that is the context for
+
+43:58.880 --> 44:07.920
+this talk in preparing this talk for you. I personally have a lot more, uh, time and energy,
+
+44:07.920 --> 44:15.840
+I have to say, invested in proprietary tools for doing a lot of the things that, that go into this.
+
+44:15.840 --> 44:22.000
+So I really respect the work of people that pull that off. Um, I'm sorry I didn't get my pre-recorded
+
+44:22.000 --> 44:30.320
+stuff, uh, kind of in order for everybody, but I just want to stress, like, uh, it is all absolutely
+
+44:30.320 --> 44:35.520
+possible and just hats off to everybody that, that used, uh, entirely free software to get their,
+
+44:36.240 --> 44:43.360
+get their recordings done in time. Um, and what you did see, unless it was provided by the operating
+
+44:43.360 --> 44:49.200
+system in my presentation today, was all, uh, free software with the debatable exception of
+
+44:49.200 --> 44:56.160
+NSYS, which styles itself as open source, maybe for, uh, marketing reasons.
+
+44:56.720 --> 45:00.400
+Okay, uh, in any case, uh, certainly we can get all that source.
+
+45:08.080 --> 45:14.640
+Thanks for the note, Corin. It's good to know that, uh, building or, uh, yeah, doing the build of Emacs
+
+45:14.720 --> 45:20.880
+for Windows on Windows can be done, uh, using only free software. Yeah, absolutely.
+
+45:23.440 --> 45:29.520
+Probably the right closing note, right? Um, I just, uh, thanks again to the organizers for
+
+45:29.520 --> 45:33.920
+bearing with me. And like, every time I was like, you guys, I'm terrible at this. They're just like,
+
+45:33.920 --> 45:38.240
+no, you're doing fine. Keep going. You did a great job live last time. You can do it live,
+
+45:38.240 --> 45:43.040
+you know, and, and saying all the right things to just, uh, encourage me to come back,
+
+45:43.920 --> 45:46.160
+uh, this year and every year.
+
+45:49.760 --> 45:53.520
+Well, as I said before, we were very lucky to have you and the rest of the team, of course,
+
+45:53.520 --> 45:59.520
+as well. And, um, goes without saying, but all the speakers and the audience, the participants as
+
+45:59.520 --> 46:14.240
+well. So, um, so, uh, are we, we're still live over here that, you know, you know, me, I'm the
+
+46:14.240 --> 46:22.800
+Mike Hogg that I am. I can't resist, um, throwing, throwing up another screen here. And, uh, in fact,
+
+46:22.800 --> 46:32.160
+let's go ahead and go back to our, to our crawler, right? And I'll bring back our build
+
+46:32.160 --> 46:40.480
+if it finishes and maybe we'll show making the installer as well. Um, uh, but I have the CPU
+
+46:40.480 --> 46:49.680
+account turned down a little bit here. Uh, note, I didn't specify minus J here. Um, so, uh, over
+
+46:49.680 --> 46:54.000
+here is my automation. Uh, in case you do want to take a look, I can at least provide the
+
+46:54.000 --> 46:59.760
+orientation of what you're looking at. Scrape log is probably my first thing I want to show off.
+
+46:59.760 --> 47:08.400
+Um, it's not beautiful, but this works, uh, pretty well for me to get a sense of something might
+
+47:08.400 --> 47:14.640
+have changed in terms of how many warnings or errors are happening when I build Emacs. So I
+
+47:14.720 --> 47:18.640
+have this whole automation going on and I frequently want to answer the question,
+
+47:19.280 --> 47:25.600
+you know, what's the change rate in, uh, warnings or what have you. So this kind of gives me a count
+
+47:26.400 --> 47:36.880
+of that. Um, so from there, uh, accrued CI is the script we're watching run in the other pane.
+
+47:37.840 --> 47:44.960
+Um, we can see it's, uh, just starting to do its thing again.
+
+47:48.800 --> 47:56.960
+And, uh, the make file I mentioned, this is a top-down rewrite of everything else that I've done.
+
+47:57.040 --> 48:08.640
+It has some bugs right now. Um, the, uh, the build distribution is the main script that I use for my
+
+48:08.640 --> 48:17.120
+personal builds. This is what is run by the crude CI script. Uh, it has a fun tie-in to this, uh,
+
+48:17.120 --> 48:23.200
+web interface here, um, where we can, you don't need the port number when you go to it. That's
+
+48:23.200 --> 48:33.680
+just if I'm going to post. Um, the, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This, this script is
+
+48:33.680 --> 48:39.120
+really long and complicated and probably needs some diving into, but you can see that, um, one
+
+48:39.120 --> 48:43.760
+of the complexities I have to deal with is that I'm going to need something in the format of an
+
+48:43.840 --> 48:53.920
+emacs-version for strategic, um, nsys reasons. So, uh, it takes care of kind of every complexity
+
+48:54.480 --> 49:03.120
+that I mentioned today in some respects, um, as does the make file. Build release is, um, another
+
+49:03.120 --> 49:11.360
+fairly useful incarnation of this. This is just focused on the release process, and this does
+
+49:11.360 --> 49:18.800
+work, uh, for example, to create the, the, the, you know, like, like, well, I could like, uh,
+
+49:18.800 --> 49:25.600
+for like files as far as I can tell. So what are currently posted for emacs 29.1 and the release
+
+49:25.600 --> 49:32.400
+candidate. Um, so I'll probably use that next time. And if it's still like, for like, I'll
+
+49:32.400 --> 49:40.960
+probably post the ones that came from this. Um, uh, building, uh, TreeSitter, I make some DLLs
+
+49:40.960 --> 49:47.120
+there. If you're looking for hints on how to get going or just simply, uh, a huge long list
+
+49:47.120 --> 49:55.840
+of Git repositories that make grammars, you can use that is here as well. Um, finally, I mentioned
+
+49:55.840 --> 50:04.800
+I have a, um, I have a website where I publish my own personal snapshots that I make, uh, that
+
+50:04.800 --> 50:11.680
+folder full of install directories, but all of the usual GNU style binary distributables, including
+
+50:11.680 --> 50:22.320
+the source code and the source code for the dependencies. Um, the, uh, so this program is
+
+50:22.320 --> 50:27.680
+another one of those complicated find commands and therefore potentially the most useful thing
+
+50:27.680 --> 50:34.960
+in here to take to you. Um, and here I'm deleting, uh, binaries older than 17 years. Uh, everything
+
+50:34.960 --> 50:42.240
+except the, uh, node apps file and the sources of it you'll find on my website. Currently those
+
+50:42.240 --> 50:48.800
+indefinitely, I'll probably roll out 120 days or something, um, for those eventually.
+
+50:53.600 --> 51:00.400
+Oh, uh, I can talk about this one even. Um, the, uh, so here you'll see the two branches that I'm
+
+51:00.400 --> 51:06.560
+tracking. The job of this script is, uh, this runs on the website. I call it with a, like a remote
+
+51:06.560 --> 51:15.920
+rsync, uh, type, uh, or an SSA remote, uh, SSH command. Um, and right after the rsync,
+
+51:15.920 --> 51:26.080
+rsyncing up any new Emacs that I built. And, uh, it's, uh, it's job is to update my fancy
+
+51:26.080 --> 51:34.880
+directory indexing. So let's look at Corwin's website. Here's my Emacs 29 folder.
+
+51:37.360 --> 51:50.400
+We have about two more minutes, Corwin. Yeah. It'll take that entire two minutes to, uh,
+
+51:50.400 --> 51:56.400
+load this directory because I am, because I have not yet ever pruned any of these dang binaries.
+
+51:56.400 --> 52:02.800
+So every version of, uh, Emacs 29 that I've ever made for myself is probably here. Nice.
+
+52:03.600 --> 52:08.480
+Uh, I strongly recommend that you bookmark this folder if you're using these for something and
+
+52:08.480 --> 52:14.240
+you always want the latest. Um, so here, this particular, uh, latest 29, Emacs 29 latest,
+
+52:14.240 --> 52:22.560
+or simply replace the 29 with 30 to get those. Uh, alas, no, no such luck for TreeSetter.
+
+52:23.120 --> 52:26.320
+But if we look at, uh, that,
+
+52:36.400 --> 52:40.320
+live this long without making a typo. Now look at me.
+
+52:40.320 --> 52:46.080
+Uh-oh. Oh.
+
+52:51.520 --> 52:56.720
+So here, um, you know, we can see the icon application and so on, even in the TreeSetter
+
+52:56.720 --> 53:01.440
+folder. This is all I'm talking about, about the fanciness that's set up by that other script that
+
+53:02.400 --> 53:06.880
+I'm showing over here and run after each time I run the upload. It just
+
+53:07.840 --> 53:12.640
+looks to see if anything's new and add some lines to the .htaccess file.
+
+53:15.840 --> 53:22.400
+Um, I'm particularly proud of this one. I'm not going to lie. Um, linking out to each,
+
+53:22.400 --> 53:26.560
+each, uh, project that we're using, letting us know the commit version,
+
+53:26.560 --> 53:34.320
+and then, uh, for the DLLs, quick link out to the log and the signature file for this DLL. Um,
+
+53:36.960 --> 53:46.160
+I find that a lot, just a lot more readable than, uh, listing them all out individually. And I'd
+
+53:46.160 --> 53:53.360
+love to do something like that on the GNU site. So I'm, I think we've got to be out of time by
+
+53:53.360 --> 53:59.600
+now. I've just got to say, hey, thanks again for having me, uh, for those that, uh, watch the talk
+
+53:59.600 --> 54:04.400
+either live or after the conference. Uh, appreciate everyone's support to get me to
+
+54:04.400 --> 54:10.320
+the point where I will be able to, uh, to do this, this, this cool volunteer task,
+
+54:10.320 --> 54:14.160
+uh, which is fun and easy to do and reach out to me if you're interested in helping with it.
+
+54:18.960 --> 54:24.320
+Well, awesome. Thanks a lot for the awesome talk, Corbyn. And, uh, of course, as a fellow
+
+54:24.320 --> 54:29.920
+core, uh, core organizer, uh, for all, for all that you do, um, in and around Emacs Conf
+
+54:29.920 --> 54:33.280
+and of course for, uh, GNU Emacs as well, it's much appreciated.
+
+54:36.160 --> 54:43.200
+Big, big words from coming from you, my friend. Um, thanks for the kind words.
+
+54:45.040 --> 54:49.840
+Cheers. My pleasure. All right. And with that, I think we're gonna, uh, wrap up the dev, uh,
+
+54:49.840 --> 54:55.360
+track here and, uh, we'll be with you again shortly in a few minutes on the gen stream,
+
+54:55.360 --> 55:00.400
+the gen track for the closing remarks for today, um, only for today, because we're going to be
+
+55:00.400 --> 55:07.520
+back tomorrow again as well. So don't go anywhere and, uh, see you on the gen track in a bit.
+
+55:25.920 --> 55:32.720
+Oh my God, I did it. We got done within the time. You're my hero. Um, and thank you so
+
+55:32.720 --> 55:41.520
+much for just keeping me honest there and, uh, like helping me keep my eye on the time and such.
+
+55:41.520 --> 55:53.680
+You have to look at the recording and see whether you feel like doing it again.
+
+55:56.160 --> 55:59.520
+I'm sorry. I had my sound screwed up and I'm sorry if I talked over somebody,
+
+55:59.520 --> 56:01.680
+I couldn't hear anything on mumble until this very moment.
+
+56:03.520 --> 56:08.960
+Oh, uh, because he's your webcam for it. Um, like as a, like a virtual webcam thingy,
+
+56:09.440 --> 56:15.760
+it was low res, especially when things are changing as you're scrolling around. So we'll
+
+56:15.760 --> 56:19.920
+see what kind of recording we can recover from it. And then you can decide whether you maybe
+
+56:19.920 --> 56:26.480
+want to clean it up with like screenshots. I recorded on this end too. We shouldn't have
+
+56:26.480 --> 56:30.720
+that problem with my recording. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think we're still live on the
+
+56:30.720 --> 56:42.240
+dev stream. Someone could, uh, take that off. Oh, yes. Because, uh, I'll, I'll set it to rebroadcast.
+
+56:45.520 --> 56:50.640
+Yeah. I love doing that for the closing remarks. That's a fine tradition
+
+56:52.000 --> 56:58.480
+or it's a tradition now. Cause I'm pretty sure this means we've done it twice.
+
+57:01.680 --> 57:07.360
+I once heard that, you know, uh, as a fan-ish meaning like a fan-ish is a term of endearment
+
+57:07.360 --> 57:12.240
+for a science fiction fan to another. We say we're, we're fans or things we do are fan-ish and
+
+57:12.800 --> 57:18.960
+a fan-ish tradition then is if you do it three times, it's tradition, but we're on a budget here.
+
+57:19.680 --> 57:31.600
+So, all right. I think we should, um, head over to mumble and talk on mumble. Um, and just decide
+
+57:31.600 --> 57:36.240
+and see like which big blue button room we're going to be in for closing. Okay. So we're clear
+
+57:36.240 --> 57:39.600
+on BBB here? Yep. I think so.
+
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-world--gnu-emacs-a-world-of-possibilities--anand-tamariya--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-world--gnu-emacs-a-world-of-possibilities--anand-tamariya--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c510cc30
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-world--gnu-emacs-a-world-of-possibilities--anand-tamariya--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,314 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:07.359
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, folks. Thanks, Anand,
+
+00:00:11.259 --> 00:00:11.759
+for the great talk. So here is the live Q&A.
+
+00:00:22.279 --> 00:00:22.420
+Hi. Hello. I see questions being posted on
+
+00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:24.099
+the pad. Would you like me to read them out
+
+00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:25.820
+or would you prefer to read them yourself?
+
+00:00:31.880 --> 00:00:32.220
+[Speaker 1]: Okay. I'll try reading it out.
+
+00:00:33.340 --> 00:00:33.680
+If there are audio issues,
+
+00:00:35.420 --> 00:00:35.920
+[Speaker 0]: Sure, thanks.
+
+00:00:37.360 --> 00:00:37.760
+[Speaker 1]: just let me know. A lot of what you showed
+
+00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:40.280
+was the type of stuff Emacs didn't do very
+
+00:00:43.040 --> 00:00:43.200
+well. This stuff looks like it could be
+
+00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:45.239
+useful for using Emacs with a touch screen
+
+00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:47.460
+and a tablet. Have you used it for purposes
+
+00:00:53.160 --> 00:00:53.360
+like this? No right now it's more proof of
+
+00:00:58.580 --> 00:00:58.780
+concept stage so I don't use it more than you
+
+00:01:03.420 --> 00:01:03.920
+know just making some demo software.
+
+00:01:12.100 --> 00:01:12.320
+The next question is, is there a mode for
+
+00:01:15.080 --> 00:01:15.280
+using FFmpeg through Emacs or did you make it
+
+00:01:20.160 --> 00:01:20.660
+yourself? Okay so this is something that I
+
+00:01:26.800 --> 00:01:27.300
+built. So the base of it is XWidget in Emacs,
+
+00:01:28.160 --> 00:01:28.660
+which is already there.
+
+00:01:35.080 --> 00:01:35.380
+But then I had to add a few control code for
+
+00:01:42.240 --> 00:01:42.500
+controlling VLC. So ffmpeg is like a shell
+
+00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:47.340
+command that finally stitches those bits of
+
+00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:52.280
+video clips. But what actually plays is VLC,
+
+00:01:55.860 --> 00:01:56.360
+and it's not FFmpeg. Hope that's clear.
+
+00:02:03.580 --> 00:02:04.020
+The next question is these demos are always
+
+00:02:06.020 --> 00:02:06.180
+so impressive. Do you plan to upstream any of
+
+00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:07.540
+these projects into Emacs?
+
+00:02:13.940 --> 00:02:14.240
+Right now, okay, let me read the complete
+
+00:02:16.220 --> 00:02:16.320
+questions. These demos are always so
+
+00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:18.080
+impressive. Do you plan to upstream any of
+
+00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:20.280
+these projects into Emacs or to publish them
+
+00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:22.280
+as, for example, helper packages?
+
+00:02:26.480 --> 00:02:26.980
+So right now, as it stands,
+
+00:02:30.720 --> 00:02:30.940
+I personally don't intend to do that because
+
+00:02:34.900 --> 00:02:35.400
+I don't have that time but I have signed my
+
+00:02:38.720 --> 00:02:39.220
+signed assignment copyright assignment so
+
+00:02:41.600 --> 00:02:41.760
+anybody has time and motivation to do it they
+
+00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:47.620
+can pick up the code and help me with that.
+
+00:02:53.200 --> 00:02:53.700
+The next is, how did you make that electronic
+
+00:03:00.600 --> 00:03:00.860
+circuit diagram? Is there a mode with the
+
+00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:03.060
+symbols already available.
+
+00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:08.460
+Okay so electronic circuit diagram is you
+
+00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:13.520
+know the canvas mode but and what you see is
+
+00:03:19.540 --> 00:03:20.040
+the is an extension of that canvas mode which
+
+00:03:25.440 --> 00:03:25.940
+uses a symbol library.
+
+00:03:31.980 --> 00:03:32.300
+And so The only difference is you press
+
+00:03:34.160 --> 00:03:34.660
+capital L to open up that symbol library.
+
+00:03:37.700 --> 00:03:37.840
+In this case, this symbol library happens to
+
+00:03:41.380 --> 00:03:41.720
+be just a library of electronic symbols.
+
+00:03:44.640 --> 00:03:44.820
+It can be any category of symbols and then
+
+00:03:47.600 --> 00:03:48.100
+you and use it to draw on your,
+
+00:03:50.640 --> 00:03:51.140
+in the canvas major mode.
+
+00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:02.540
+Next question is, I have seen your blog post
+
+00:04:04.700 --> 00:04:04.960
+with some of these features But can you link
+
+00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:06.420
+to the repo where you are doing the
+
+00:04:07.940 --> 00:04:08.440
+development for these packages?
+
+00:04:18.899 --> 00:04:19.200
+Sure, I can do that Most of these are
+
+00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:20.779
+available on my blogs.
+
+00:04:26.200 --> 00:04:26.480
+Typically the Reddit post always has a link
+
+00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:31.680
+to my blog. But I'll post it in this 1 as
+
+00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:32.180
+well.
+
+00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:48.700
+[Speaker 0]: I'll quickly note that we have about 4 more
+
+00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:52.800
+minutes of live Q&A, but if folks have more
+
+00:04:55.320 --> 00:04:55.720
+questions, they're welcome to either continue
+
+00:04:59.060 --> 00:04:59.240
+asking on the pad or come join us here on Big
+
+00:05:02.080 --> 00:05:02.220
+Blue Button and continue chatting once the
+
+00:05:03.440 --> 00:05:03.800
+stream moves on to the next talk.
+
+00:05:03.940 --> 00:05:04.440
+Thank you.
+
+00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:13.860
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, so here's the link.
+
+00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:23.560
+And so right now, all of my development goes
+
+00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:26.600
+into a single development branch in this
+
+00:05:28.940 --> 00:05:29.140
+repository. But depending on the feature that
+
+00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:31.680
+you're looking at, you can look at that
+
+00:05:33.820 --> 00:05:33.960
+particular post and that post will have a
+
+00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:37.320
+link to the specific files that include the
+
+00:05:37.320 --> 00:05:37.820
+changes.
+
+00:06:24.236 --> 00:06:24.304
+Okay, there's a feedback.
+
+00:06:26.520 --> 00:06:26.740
+Thank you for showing so many new
+
+00:06:27.500 --> 00:06:28.000
+possibilities with Emacs.
+
+00:06:30.960 --> 00:06:31.460
+I'm glad you like those possibilities.
+
+00:06:32.540 --> 00:06:32.760
+And hopefully, you know,
+
+00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:34.740
+with Emacs, the possibilities are really
+
+00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:38.980
+endless. So I really encourage more people to
+
+00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:41.620
+explore it and, you know,
+
+00:06:49.280 --> 00:06:49.780
+try things that people have so far only been
+
+00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:52.660
+using other applications for.
+
+00:06:59.580 --> 00:07:00.080
+The next question is coming up.
+
+00:07:07.540 --> 00:07:08.040
+Okay, the PDF form filling is especially
+
+00:07:10.200 --> 00:07:10.400
+interesting. I would love to do my taxes in
+
+00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:16.620
+Emacs. Yes, In most cases you should be able
+
+00:07:18.900 --> 00:07:19.400
+to do it unless there are a lot of JavaScript
+
+00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:21.000
+involved with the PDF.
+
+00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:24.960
+For a simple form, you should be able to do
+
+00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:25.460
+it.
+
+00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:19.640
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, we have about 1 minute remaining on the
+
+00:08:21.660 --> 00:08:22.000
+live stream. If folks have any other
+
+00:08:24.960 --> 00:08:25.120
+questions, please do continue posting on the
+
+00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:27.800
+pad or come and join BigBlueButton with an
+
+00:08:28.940 --> 00:08:29.140
+ad. And thanks again, Adam,
+
+00:08:30.880 --> 00:08:31.080
+for a great talk and for the discussions and
+
+00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:32.059
+questions and answers.
+
+00:08:36.100 --> 00:08:36.600
+[Speaker 1]: Great, thanks.
diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-writing--emacs-turbocharges-my-writing--jeremy-friesen--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-writing--emacs-turbocharges-my-writing--jeremy-friesen--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..97601987
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-writing--emacs-turbocharges-my-writing--jeremy-friesen--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,893 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:01.020 --> 00:00:01.400
+[Speaker 0]: All right, I've started the recording,
+
+00:00:02.840 --> 00:00:03.240
+so Sasha, you don't need to worry about this.
+
+00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:04.500
+Hi Jeremy, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:07.160
+[Speaker 1]: I'm doing great, how about you?
+
+00:00:08.940 --> 00:00:09.380
+[Speaker 0]: I am also doing great,
+
+00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:11.780
+I am feeling replenished after this lunch
+
+00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:14.179
+break and I am happy to go back for 4 more
+
+00:00:16.699 --> 00:00:16.940
+[Speaker 1]: Me too. Let me
+
+00:00:16.940 --> 00:00:17.303
+[Speaker 0]: hours of conferences. just,
+
+00:00:19.700 --> 00:00:20.200
+yeah great, Let me just put up the questions.
+
+00:00:22.260 --> 00:00:22.440
+So Jeremy is going to read the questions and
+
+00:00:24.279 --> 00:00:24.380
+answer them and I will be doing jazz hands in
+
+00:00:26.439 --> 00:00:26.599
+the background or provide any bits of
+
+00:00:28.520 --> 00:00:28.860
+information I may, considering that Orgrim
+
+00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:30.080
+has been mentioned during the presentation
+
+00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:31.980
+and everyone's going to want to ask me.
+
+00:00:37.440 --> 00:00:37.940
+at... Show me? Yeah, go.
+
+00:00:38.980 --> 00:00:39.280
+[Speaker 1]: So I'm looking I'm looking at the,
+
+00:00:40.800 --> 00:00:41.160
+do you think the line numbers for writing
+
+00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:43.220
+documents is kind of a distraction,
+
+00:00:46.780 --> 00:00:47.280
+especially for notes? No,
+
+00:00:49.800 --> 00:00:50.300
+I do software development and that left
+
+00:00:52.660 --> 00:00:53.160
+fringe is kind of invisible,
+
+00:00:55.760 --> 00:00:56.260
+but I do like to use jump to line.
+
+00:00:59.380 --> 00:00:59.580
+So I just bind that to control L and it's
+
+00:01:00.700 --> 00:01:01.200
+helpful to just see that.
+
+00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:04.900
+So no, I haven't noticed that.
+
+00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:07.540
+There are other ways to jump around in Emacs,
+
+00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:10.140
+but I like to have many different ways.
+
+00:01:16.960 --> 00:01:17.120
+So, yeah. Then how do you manage private and
+
+00:01:18.340 --> 00:01:18.840
+public data with your Zettelkasten?
+
+00:01:22.940 --> 00:01:23.440
+1 of my blockers on putting my Zettelkasten
+
+00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:26.240
+on the web is I don't want everything to be
+
+00:01:28.360 --> 00:01:28.860
+public, especially fleeting notes.
+
+00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:36.500
+So 1 thing is I only explicitly export a file
+
+00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:39.380
+to Hugo and I have that,
+
+00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:41.500
+I can like, I can export this.
+
+00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:43.380
+That doesn't show up very well.
+
+00:01:50.080 --> 00:01:50.280
+So it's export probably export org to take on
+
+00:01:52.360 --> 00:01:52.860
+rules and we'll export the buffer.
+
+00:01:56.540 --> 00:01:57.040
+And then any that I referenced,
+
+00:01:57.800 --> 00:01:58.300
+like these are all links,
+
+00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:04.380
+any notes that are not public will be
+
+00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:06.480
+exported as the text, but there won't be a
+
+00:02:09.860 --> 00:02:10.160
+link to it. So it's having the very
+
+00:02:11.640 --> 00:02:12.140
+deliberate, this is going up.
+
+00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:15.080
+And so I send it over into Hugo,
+
+00:02:16.700 --> 00:02:17.200
+which is its own repository,
+
+00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:21.300
+and either massage it there or whatnot.
+
+00:02:25.260 --> 00:02:25.760
+Is that any further questions on that 1?
+
+00:02:29.700 --> 00:02:30.200
+[Speaker 0]: I don't think so.
+
+00:02:36.580 --> 00:02:36.940
+[Speaker 1]: Is there anything special you're using from
+
+00:02:38.860 --> 00:02:38.960
+org to Hugo markdown? This looks like a
+
+00:02:41.020 --> 00:02:41.520
+really nice setup. I like to give it a try.
+
+00:02:46.920 --> 00:02:47.420
+Yes, there I have a bespoke build process.
+
+00:02:49.600 --> 00:02:50.100
+Having started in WordPress,
+
+00:02:50.820 --> 00:02:51.320
+working through Jekyll,
+
+00:02:54.020 --> 00:02:54.200
+going to Hugo, and then switching from
+
+00:02:57.440 --> 00:02:57.740
+Markdown to org mode, I've backed into this
+
+00:02:58.680 --> 00:02:59.180
+private public Zettelkasten,
+
+00:03:04.440 --> 00:03:04.840
+which is really nice. And I have added quite
+
+00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:08.000
+a bit of code. There's my dog.
+
+00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:16.020
+[Speaker 0]: blogging.
+
+00:03:20.420 --> 00:03:20.720
+[Speaker 1]: In my So I have, how do I export like side
+
+00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:22.800
+notes because I want I have marginalia
+
+00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:24.780
+instead of like the footnotes,
+
+00:03:26.580 --> 00:03:27.080
+but I still use org mode footnotes.
+
+00:03:29.540 --> 00:03:29.700
+And so I've got a bunch of these things and
+
+00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:32.800
+this is all available up on GitHub And I'll
+
+00:03:34.200 --> 00:03:34.700
+provide a link in the document.
+
+00:03:41.980 --> 00:03:42.280
+Yeah, so there's quite a bit of making the
+
+00:03:43.940 --> 00:03:44.440
+export work how I want it.
+
+00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:48.840
+And I've been kind of fiddling with also
+
+00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:51.560
+improving like LaTeX or PDF export.
+
+00:03:58.580 --> 00:03:59.080
+So yeah, I have a long running to do item to
+
+00:04:02.380 --> 00:04:02.880
+fully lay out my bespoke build process.
+
+00:04:04.180 --> 00:04:04.680
+Because once it gets to Hugo,
+
+00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:07.440
+there's also additional work that I do to
+
+00:04:11.320 --> 00:04:11.820
+compile what is kind of a personal,
+
+00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:13.620
+like a digital garden-ish,
+
+00:04:16.440 --> 00:04:16.940
+it's really a blog focused 1.
+
+00:04:27.700 --> 00:04:28.080
+So yeah, it's at Jeremy F on GitHub at dot
+
+00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:33.060
+Emacs. And you'll be looking for JF
+
+00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:36.300
+blogging.l that has some of this.
+
+00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:42.580
+Also jforgmode.l will have some of that.
+
+00:04:49.140 --> 00:04:49.540
+Yeah, I wanna circle back to that,
+
+00:04:51.340 --> 00:04:51.560
+anything to prevent private links from
+
+00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:54.220
+getting accidentally being made publicly
+
+00:05:01.960 --> 00:05:02.440
+accessible. Yes. So previous to using denote,
+
+00:05:06.140 --> 00:05:06.480
+I also used org-roam. So I have this idea of
+
+00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:12.560
+a node in org-roam has roam refs.
+
+00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:15.660
+And org-roam is much more robust about that.
+
+00:05:17.380 --> 00:05:17.880
+So anytime you mention a ref,
+
+00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:20.300
+it will count it as a backlink.
+
+00:05:23.200 --> 00:05:23.700
+So for example, if my node was my blog,
+
+00:05:25.200 --> 00:05:25.700
+take on rules, anytime,
+
+00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:30.420
+anywhere in my org Rome repository,
+
+00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:32.120
+I mentioned takeonrules.com,
+
+00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:34.980
+it would treat it as a backlink.
+
+00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:37.980
+So from that Rome refs,
+
+00:05:45.140 --> 00:05:45.640
+I have a, I will interrogate,
+
+00:05:47.520 --> 00:05:47.800
+and this is not the function for I will look
+
+00:05:50.440 --> 00:05:50.940
+at the node to see does it have a Rome ref
+
+00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:53.760
+and if it does I will treat it as a public
+
+00:05:57.680 --> 00:05:58.180
+link. So I don't I haven't bled out any
+
+00:06:01.400 --> 00:06:01.620
+private information because again going back
+
+00:06:05.500 --> 00:06:06.000
+to I only publish a document and the document
+
+00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:09.060
+I'm explicitly doing so and then my process
+
+00:06:12.280 --> 00:06:12.720
+filters out any links that do not have public
+
+00:06:16.840 --> 00:06:17.140
+URLs. It will just dump it in there as maybe
+
+00:06:20.280 --> 00:06:20.640
+a span with a ref class of it so that I can
+
+00:06:22.340 --> 00:06:22.840
+kind of know that that came from there.
+
+00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:33.740
+Yes, So the font I am using is,
+
+00:06:37.960 --> 00:06:38.460
+so this is another font.
+
+00:06:40.640 --> 00:06:41.140
+What font were you using in EWW?
+
+00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:50.420
+I think I'm using IOS Becca and ET Bembo.
+
+00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:53.180
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, show me your EWW.
+
+00:06:54.860 --> 00:06:55.360
+If we are doing full ricing setup,
+
+00:06:58.260 --> 00:06:58.440
+I can recognize Yosefka just by looking at
+
+00:06:58.440 --> 00:06:58.940
+it.
+
+00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:01.300
+[Speaker 1]: So let's... Yeah, so yeah,
+
+00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:06.240
+ET Bembo, I'm using these 2 fonts as kind of
+
+00:07:08.760 --> 00:07:09.260
+my anchor. So the variable pitch is ETBembo.
+
+00:07:13.140 --> 00:07:13.640
+My blog started off with a Tufta style CSS
+
+00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:16.360
+and I really pared it down and got rid of any
+
+00:07:19.820 --> 00:07:19.940
+of the additional fonts because they can be
+
+00:07:21.340 --> 00:07:21.580
+used as trackers. And I'm like,
+
+00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:24.020
+nope, you decide what font you want for your
+
+00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:26.420
+browser. I don't need to tell you what looks
+
+00:07:33.420 --> 00:07:33.680
+good for you. Yeah, so the story of Take On
+
+00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:37.480
+Rules, I have to thank my partner and lovely
+
+00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:41.180
+wife for that. She kind of nudged me to do
+
+00:07:42.840 --> 00:07:43.080
+some blogging, and we spent some time
+
+00:07:44.700 --> 00:07:45.160
+thinking about it. And originally,
+
+00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:48.220
+it started off as writing about rules for
+
+00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:51.060
+role-playing games or tabletop games.
+
+00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:54.860
+And it has extended far beyond that.
+
+00:07:56.260 --> 00:07:56.760
+The blog, as I've shifted,
+
+00:07:58.160 --> 00:07:58.660
+as I think I mentioned in the presentation,
+
+00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:01.640
+as I've shifted towards an everything and
+
+00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:05.180
+nothing approach, the blog is anything I want
+
+00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:06.240
+to write about anymore.
+
+00:08:08.940 --> 00:08:09.440
+There's haikus up there with some regularity.
+
+00:08:16.780 --> 00:08:17.280
+So the name is now a relic of a past.
+
+00:08:21.180 --> 00:08:21.680
+So yeah, the thing and nothing is,
+
+00:08:24.140 --> 00:08:24.640
+and I put that in the about on my blog.
+
+00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:29.440
+So it's, I highly encourage like,
+
+00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:34.440
+I feel great. Once I like said,
+
+00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:36.740
+oh, I don't have to write this towards a
+
+00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:40.100
+topical blog post or like what the topic is,
+
+00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:44.120
+it freed it up. And I know that it comes at a
+
+00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:47.500
+potential compromise because it's very much
+
+00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:51.960
+me being a voice up there instead of
+
+00:08:53.300 --> 00:08:53.760
+something that is curated and filtered
+
+00:08:55.760 --> 00:08:56.060
+through a specific channel like I could have
+
+00:08:59.160 --> 00:08:59.340
+a technical blog but I decided I'm just gonna
+
+00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:02.420
+tag it as programming or emacs and let you
+
+00:09:04.340 --> 00:09:04.840
+find it and you can subscribe to the rss
+
+00:09:06.860 --> 00:09:07.360
+feeds of each tag that you find applicable
+
+00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:13.840
+[Speaker 0]: right thank you so we are we are at the last
+
+00:09:15.860 --> 00:09:16.100
+question on the pad but I see that some
+
+00:09:18.160 --> 00:09:18.480
+people have joined us on the blue button.
+
+00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:22.420
+So, hi everyone! We have about 6 minutes
+
+00:09:23.980 --> 00:09:24.220
+until we need to go to the next talk,
+
+00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:26.460
+but if anyone has a question on the blue
+
+00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:28.780
+button, I'm thinking about James who's joined
+
+00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:32.780
+us and who was kind enough to drop a thank
+
+00:09:33.660 --> 00:09:33.940
+you line on the blue button.
+
+00:09:35.280 --> 00:09:35.460
+Do you want to unmute yourself and ask a
+
+00:09:39.340 --> 00:09:39.520
+question maybe? I'm not putting pressure by
+
+00:09:41.180 --> 00:09:41.680
+the way, I don't feel like you need to but it
+
+00:09:43.780 --> 00:09:44.060
+just... I speak all the time otherwise I'm
+
+00:09:45.400 --> 00:09:45.720
+very happy to spend time with our speakers
+
+00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:48.700
+you know but you know EmacsConf it's about,
+
+00:09:50.800 --> 00:09:51.300
+as Sasha told you during the intro,
+
+00:09:53.680 --> 00:09:54.180
+it's about making people take things,
+
+00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:56.100
+brilliant things out of their mind and put
+
+00:09:57.340 --> 00:09:57.840
+them outside in the public.
+
+00:10:00.380 --> 00:10:00.660
+And for us, you know, we get to see the talk
+
+00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:01.720
+evolve, we talk with people.
+
+00:10:03.680 --> 00:10:03.840
+So for us we are already quite cognizant of
+
+00:10:05.760 --> 00:10:06.260
+the topic and the point is not for us hosts
+
+00:10:09.560 --> 00:10:09.780
+to ask questions, it's mostly for you to ask
+
+00:10:11.420 --> 00:10:11.580
+questions and then we worry about all the
+
+00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:12.940
+fancy stuff in the background.
+
+00:10:15.860 --> 00:10:16.080
+Otherwise you damn well know I will ask
+
+00:10:18.160 --> 00:10:18.660
+questions about org-roam,
+
+00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:20.460
+about links, and nodes in general,
+
+00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:22.100
+because that's my bread and butter.
+
+00:10:27.260 --> 00:10:27.440
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I should add, like,
+
+00:10:31.640 --> 00:10:31.820
+the process of migrating the data from a
+
+00:10:35.020 --> 00:10:35.220
+WordPress export to markdown to org mode by
+
+00:10:39.180 --> 00:10:39.680
+way of Pandoc was, it was really insightful
+
+00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:42.900
+to help me understand how I want the data to
+
+00:10:47.380 --> 00:10:47.580
+flow and how I could create a repository for
+
+00:10:50.540 --> 00:10:50.940
+me of information and 1 that I could then
+
+00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:52.540
+send out into the world,
+
+00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:53.600
+the public information,
+
+00:10:57.660 --> 00:10:58.160
+while not having to worry about the private
+
+00:10:59.780 --> 00:11:00.280
+things that I might want to keep.
+
+00:11:03.800 --> 00:11:04.240
+So it was that process of just working
+
+00:11:08.740 --> 00:11:08.940
+through it to reflect on how I'm writing and
+
+00:11:10.860 --> 00:11:11.360
+what I started using writing for.
+
+00:11:13.820 --> 00:11:14.040
+I think Richard Feynman said,
+
+00:11:15.260 --> 00:11:15.680
+no, writing is my thinking.
+
+00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:17.740
+What I wrote is thinking.
+
+00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:21.480
+So it has helped to really frame that.
+
+00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:24.440
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I mean, there's an interesting
+
+00:11:28.940 --> 00:11:29.220
+ambivalent relationship because it feels like
+
+00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:31.800
+writing helps thinking and thinking helps
+
+00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:35.340
+writing in a way and nowhere have I
+
+00:11:37.420 --> 00:11:37.920
+personally been more aware of this than when
+
+00:11:40.800 --> 00:11:41.000
+coming up with networks of notes because it
+
+00:11:43.620 --> 00:11:43.860
+really I mean you use whichever word you want
+
+00:11:45.560 --> 00:11:45.900
+you know a second brain a collection of notes
+
+00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:48.860
+a slip box a repository of notes whichever
+
+00:11:51.780 --> 00:11:52.080
+the tool you use the point at the end is to
+
+00:11:53.800 --> 00:11:54.000
+resonate with you. It's kind of like
+
+00:11:57.100 --> 00:11:57.280
+extending those moments of consciousness that
+
+00:11:58.380 --> 00:11:58.880
+you have when you take your notes,
+
+00:12:02.280 --> 00:12:02.780
+and you make the entire gradient available.
+
+00:12:06.140 --> 00:12:06.380
+Sorry, I heard Sasha whispering in my ear
+
+00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:08.360
+sometimes. It's pretty pleasant.
+
+00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:10.500
+It's really shocking.
+
+00:12:14.540 --> 00:12:15.040
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, Aaron, you had a question.
+
+00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:17.440
+Do I use denote just for my blogs or do I use
+
+00:12:18.160 --> 00:12:18.660
+it for other purposes?
+
+00:12:24.620 --> 00:12:25.120
+I use denote for all of my note taking and
+
+00:12:28.160 --> 00:12:28.660
+almost, I think it's exclusively org mode
+
+00:12:30.060 --> 00:12:30.560
+that I, that I use it in.
+
+00:12:33.180 --> 00:12:33.400
+But what I really appreciated in the
+
+00:12:37.020 --> 00:12:37.500
+consideration that Proc put forward was the
+
+00:12:40.640 --> 00:12:40.940
+file name encodes the information that's
+
+00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:45.980
+relevant. So it has helped me be able to
+
+00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:48.580
+query by using things like ripgrep,
+
+00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:54.480
+well not ripgrep, tree or I forget any more
+
+00:12:59.640 --> 00:13:00.140
+what I use. But having that the file encodes
+
+00:13:03.580 --> 00:13:03.820
+useful information. And it's so much more
+
+00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:06.960
+relevant when I look at having worked at a
+
+00:13:10.280 --> 00:13:10.520
+university that rolled out Google Drive to
+
+00:13:12.680 --> 00:13:12.840
+everyone without any guidance on how to
+
+00:13:15.780 --> 00:13:16.120
+organize stuff. And I worked at a library and
+
+00:13:19.180 --> 00:13:19.540
+it was just a nightmare watching things show
+
+00:13:22.340 --> 00:13:22.840
+up where you could never find it again.
+
+00:13:27.560 --> 00:13:28.060
+So, file name, the file name having the date,
+
+00:13:33.060 --> 00:13:33.280
+having the title and having tags just made so
+
+00:13:34.280 --> 00:13:34.780
+much sense to be findable.
+
+00:13:40.920 --> 00:13:41.420
+And yeah, I really do just use org.
+
+00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:47.220
+But if I am going to make txt files or other
+
+00:13:51.540 --> 00:13:52.040
+files, I have started adopting that structure
+
+00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:52.840
+and format.
+
+00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:00.900
+[Speaker 0]: Right. Well, Jeremy, we have about 1 minute
+
+00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:03.080
+and 30 seconds left until we go on to the
+
+00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:05.140
+next talk. Do you have any final words
+
+00:14:06.500 --> 00:14:06.740
+regarding your presentation or maybe where
+
+00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:08.400
+people can find you? I know you've already
+
+00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:09.240
+mentioned this but...
+
+00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:13.160
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, take on rules. I'm also on dice camp
+
+00:14:17.780 --> 00:14:18.080
+dice.campmastodon at take on rules and I've
+
+00:14:21.580 --> 00:14:22.080
+thought about emacs.h but we federate well So
+
+00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:27.560
+I appreciate that. And I can stay on and
+
+00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:29.680
+answer any further questions if folks have
+
+00:14:29.680 --> 00:14:30.180
+it.
+
+00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:34.860
+[Speaker 0]: Sure. So sorry. Sorry,
+
+00:14:36.660 --> 00:14:36.820
+I confused myself with the buttons talking to
+
+00:14:38.520 --> 00:14:38.960
+production and all. Well then,
+
+00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:41.260
+what I'm going to do is that the stream is
+
+00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:43.740
+going to move on to the next talk in about 50
+
+00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:46.160
+seconds. If people want to join and ask any
+
+00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:49.160
+questions, feel free to join on the blue
+
+00:14:51.220 --> 00:14:51.380
+button. The link is on the talk page or on
+
+00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:54.480
+IRC. And feel free to hang out as long as you
+
+00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:56.160
+want to ask as many questions as you want to
+
+00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:58.180
+Jeremy. We are recording all of this and
+
+00:15:00.040 --> 00:15:00.540
+we'll be publishing this later on once again.
+
+00:15:02.900 --> 00:15:03.080
+And all that's left for me to do is to thank
+
+00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:05.580
+you so much, Jeremy, for your presentation
+
+00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:08.200
+and your answers. And I will see you another
+
+00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:08.700
+time.
+
+00:15:14.340 --> 00:15:14.840
+[Speaker 1]: So yeah, plasma strike.
+
+00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:18.500
+I'm not able to grant speaking powers.
+
+00:15:21.660 --> 00:15:22.160
+So if you wanted to type up something
+
+00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:22.660
+question-wise.
+
+00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:26.000
+[Speaker 0]: Oh, okay. I'll manage this in the background.
+
+00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:28.220
+So we're moving on to the next talk.
+
+00:15:29.860 --> 00:15:30.240
+We'll figure out the things about VBB,
+
+00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:32.940
+But in the meantime, enjoy the next talk.
+
+00:15:35.060 --> 00:15:35.460
+Bye. All right, Jeremy.
+
+00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:37.080
+We are now on the next talk.
+
+00:15:39.140 --> 00:15:39.240
+Sorry about having to mention multiple things
+
+00:15:42.040 --> 00:15:42.500
+at the same time. Speaking rights.
+
+00:15:44.060 --> 00:15:44.440
+I will try fixing this in the background.
+
+00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:46.120
+I need to get moving for the next talk,
+
+00:15:47.800 --> 00:15:48.040
+but I'll do it in the background and we'll
+
+00:15:49.160 --> 00:15:49.660
+let you know as soon as it's ready.
+
+00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:50.360
+[Speaker 1]: We're doing great. Okay.
+
+00:15:51.820 --> 00:15:52.320
+[Speaker 0]: Alright, bye bye Jeremy.