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+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:05.140
+[Speaker 0]: 2 seconds. And I think we are live.
+
+00:00:05.980 --> 00:00:06.480
+Hi Yuchen, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:09.220
+[Speaker 1]: I'm gonna just walk off.
+
+00:00:10.840 --> 00:00:11.120
+I'm not sure if I... Yeah,
+
+00:00:13.440 --> 00:00:13.740
+I mean, brain not working well at this
+
+00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:15.160
+moment. How about you?
+
+00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:18.760
+[Speaker 2]: Well, mine is about to get fried because
+
+00:00:21.040 --> 00:00:21.260
+EmacsConf is a very taxing process and I can
+
+00:00:24.599 --> 00:00:25.080
+tell you we could have a race to know who's
+
+00:00:26.720 --> 00:00:26.920
+more more tired right now between you and
+
+00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:29.619
+myself but I guess we'll find out at the end
+
+00:00:32.080 --> 00:00:32.580
+[Speaker 1]: All right, sounds good.
+
+00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:34.700
+[Speaker 2]: of the Q&A. And thank you for...
+
+00:00:37.760 --> 00:00:37.900
+How late or how early I should say is it for
+
+00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:39.640
+you right now? It should be like 6am or
+
+00:00:43.860 --> 00:00:44.059
+[Speaker 1]: Thanks. It's 7.45 but I normally get up at
+
+00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:45.520
+like 8.30 or something.
+
+00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:46.860
+[Speaker 2]: something? Right, okay.
+
+00:00:48.380 --> 00:00:48.880
+Well, anyway, thank you for the sacrifice
+
+00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:50.700
+just to answer some of the questions.
+
+00:00:56.160 --> 00:00:56.320
+All right, so I'll be displaying the
+
+00:00:59.180 --> 00:00:59.680
+questions. I'll be, let me just maximize this
+
+00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:01.720
+on the stream so that people can read
+
+00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:02.640
+everything on my screen.
+
+00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:03.480
+So what I'm going to do,
+
+00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:05.740
+Yuchen, as usual, I'm going to start reading
+
+00:01:06.540 --> 00:01:06.720
+the questions on the pad.
+
+00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:12.660
+I'm going to ask Sasha to open the Q&A.
+
+00:01:13.620 --> 00:01:13.940
+Yes, it's already open.
+
+00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:15.479
+Cool. So if you want to join us,
+
+00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:19.540
+people, Feel free to click on the link on the
+
+00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:21.940
+talk or on IRC to join us on BBB and to ask
+
+00:01:23.440 --> 00:01:23.560
+your questions. Otherwise just leave them on
+
+00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:24.720
+the pad. Alright, Yuchen,
+
+00:01:25.440 --> 00:01:25.940
+starting with the first question.
+
+00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:28.620
+I like the idea of using org-mode to display
+
+00:01:30.300 --> 00:01:30.640
+data from the web. Are there many different
+
+00:01:33.220 --> 00:01:33.580
+packages that do not, I assume.
+
+00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:35.720
+I'm new to Emacs, so maybe this is obvious to
+
+00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:36.540
+everyone else.
+
+00:01:43.860 --> 00:01:44.360
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think so. I mean...
+
+00:01:49.240 --> 00:01:49.440
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think it's a little complicated to
+
+00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:51.660
+specify what is it to display data from the
+
+00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:53.560
+web. Just reading it like this,
+
+00:01:55.900 --> 00:01:56.200
+I'm reminded of Adam, Arthur Pappa,
+
+00:01:58.260 --> 00:01:58.520
+I mean, Code All Capture Web,
+
+00:02:00.860 --> 00:02:01.060
+which technically captures the web and allows
+
+00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:02.500
+you to embed it in the page,
+
+00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:04.400
+but is it really displaying data from the
+
+00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:06.840
+web? Are we implying live transmission?
+
+00:02:07.720 --> 00:02:08.220
+Do you see what I'm talking about?
+
+00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:11.180
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I suspect the question is asking,
+
+00:02:17.040 --> 00:02:17.540
+like, having Emacs as a client that's sort of
+
+00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:20.240
+getting data from the web and then displays
+
+00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:25.620
+in Emacs, like using API or using web script.
+
+00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:35.440
+So yeah, like the hreader package or a few
+
+00:02:37.580 --> 00:02:38.080
+packages mentioned in my talk.
+
+00:02:39.920 --> 00:02:40.180
+Yeah, that's a good question.
+
+00:02:46.220 --> 00:02:46.720
+I mean, I really don't know how many.
+
+00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:48.560
+So from my experience,
+
+00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:56.460
+maybe I use like 10, less than 10 packages
+
+00:03:01.220 --> 00:03:01.460
+that do these things. And among these
+
+00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:04.120
+packages, maybe it's half of them are org,
+
+00:03:09.480 --> 00:03:09.980
+[Speaker 2]: So you mean half of them are org-based?
+
+00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:11.340
+Is that what you said?
+
+00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:12.340
+[Speaker 1]: half of them don't. Yeah,
+
+00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:17.420
+but that's just based on the packages I use.
+
+00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:22.940
+I haven't done a survey about this.
+
+00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:25.680
+[Speaker 2]: I think it's okay, you don't need to have all
+
+00:03:26.880 --> 00:03:27.340
+the answers. I mean, you already demonstrate
+
+00:03:29.380 --> 00:03:29.480
+a lot of competence and you talk about all
+
+00:03:31.100 --> 00:03:31.520
+the things you approach with your particular
+
+00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:33.240
+setup, So you don't need to have all the
+
+00:03:36.040 --> 00:03:36.280
+answers. Okay. All right,
+
+00:03:37.160 --> 00:03:37.660
+moving on to the next question.
+
+00:03:39.340 --> 00:03:39.720
+Have you tried EAF, i.e.
+
+00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:41.840
+The Emacs application framework and its
+
+00:03:43.940 --> 00:03:44.120
+browser? If yes, what is your opinion about
+
+00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:44.620
+it?
+
+00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:48.020
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, I haven't tried it.
+
+00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:54.260
+I try to remember why I haven't tried it.
+
+00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:04.020
+It has a browser. I assume the browser
+
+00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:07.340
+executes JavaScript by default.
+
+00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:12.820
+I have to check. Emacs.daf
+
+00:04:15.820 --> 00:04:16.320
+slash daf browser.
+
+00:04:25.520 --> 00:04:25.840
+[Speaker 2]: It's also OK if you want to have a look later
+
+00:04:27.380 --> 00:04:27.560
+and you know whenever you want to report to
+
+00:04:28.940 --> 00:04:29.220
+the pad you know you write a little blurb
+
+00:04:34.700 --> 00:04:34.860
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah sure yeah so yeah I know about EAF but I
+
+00:04:35.460 --> 00:04:35.960
+haven't tried it.
+
+00:04:38.060 --> 00:04:38.340
+[Speaker 2]: about it. Okay well that's already an answer
+
+00:04:41.400 --> 00:04:41.580
+that's cool. We're gonna move on to a
+
+00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:43.040
+question that is a little bit off topic,
+
+00:04:44.700 --> 00:04:44.860
+but I've also been interested about your
+
+00:04:47.420 --> 00:04:47.800
+nickname on IRC. This is not really relevant
+
+00:04:48.900 --> 00:04:49.340
+to the talk, quoting the question,
+
+00:04:50.400 --> 00:04:50.900
+but I'm curious about your nickname.
+
+00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:52.520
+You have some connection to Norway.
+
+00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:54.640
+Your nick indicates an interest in the
+
+00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:56.200
+architectural style inspired by the
+
+00:04:58.280 --> 00:04:58.700
+decoration on Viking ships that was popular
+
+00:05:00.460 --> 00:05:00.700
+in the early 20th century because
+
+00:05:01.880 --> 00:05:02.380
+Dragonsteel, I assume in Norwegian,
+
+00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:05.360
+is Dragon style. Are you familiar with this?
+
+00:05:10.760 --> 00:05:11.260
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it's just my favorite architecture
+
+00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:16.060
+style, I think. I mean,
+
+00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:19.540
+I lived in Sweden for like 2,
+
+00:05:25.900 --> 00:05:26.320
+1 half years and yeah I went to Norway once
+
+00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:33.020
+and I saw like this church in Lofoten Island,
+
+00:05:36.766 --> 00:05:36.780
+[Speaker 0]: was amazing. In Luton Island,
+
+00:05:36.820 --> 00:05:36.833
+on Luton Island. Right.
+
+00:05:36.833 --> 00:05:36.846
+[Speaker 1]: on Lofoten Island. Yeah it Yeah,
+
+00:05:40.280 --> 00:05:40.560
+it was amazing. So, yeah,
+
+00:05:43.780 --> 00:05:44.060
+that's exactly why I chose that as my
+
+00:05:46.520 --> 00:05:46.940
+nickname, because it's my favorite
+
+00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:48.040
+architecture style.
+
+00:05:51.940 --> 00:05:52.080
+[Speaker 2]: Okay, well, that was a very astute remark by
+
+00:05:54.760 --> 00:05:54.960
+the viewers, so I hope you feel validated in
+
+00:05:58.480 --> 00:05:58.660
+[Speaker 0]: assumptions. Moving on
+
+00:05:58.980 --> 00:05:59.480
+[Speaker 2]: your to another question.
+
+00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:02.360
+Yuchen, do you have any thoughts about Nixed,
+
+00:06:03.880 --> 00:06:04.380
+about its name, its approach,
+
+00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:09.060
+its relevance? About Nixed,
+
+00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:11.720
+the browser, N-Y-X-T. Oh,
+
+00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:12.220
+Nixed.
+
+00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:17.720
+[Speaker 1]: About what? Yeah, I have tried it.
+
+00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:21.860
+Well, I mean, it's not Emacs.
+
+00:06:26.140 --> 00:06:26.380
+It's kind of similar. I think it tries to do
+
+00:06:27.440 --> 00:06:27.900
+something similar to Emacs,
+
+00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:34.240
+but The problem with Nix is that very early
+
+00:06:37.180 --> 00:06:37.680
+on I encountered an issue with keybinding.
+
+00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:43.240
+So the first thing I want to do is to make
+
+00:06:44.300 --> 00:06:44.800
+all its keybindings emax-y.
+
+00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:47.420
+So that's obviously...
+
+00:06:51.200 --> 00:06:51.580
+So what was the problem?
+
+00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:53.500
+So yeah, I couldn't even do that.
+
+00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:56.620
+I thought, I was expecting that it could...
+
+00:07:02.660 --> 00:07:02.860
+There shouldn't be any issues with setting up
+
+00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:04.440
+whatever key binding you want.
+
+00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:09.180
+So I, the, the issue was that when I tried to
+
+00:07:15.400 --> 00:07:15.660
+do when I tried to bind Ctrl S Ctrl R to the
+
+00:07:17.380 --> 00:07:17.600
+prompt going up and down,
+
+00:07:22.900 --> 00:07:23.140
+so I use I was I complete and I'm used to
+
+00:07:26.760 --> 00:07:27.260
+like the control S and control R to go,
+
+00:07:28.980 --> 00:07:29.480
+to cycle through the selections.
+
+00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:35.760
+And so I want it the same in next in its
+
+00:07:38.460 --> 00:07:38.960
+prompt like when, for example,
+
+00:07:43.620 --> 00:07:44.120
+typing a URL and get completion from history.
+
+00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:49.400
+But it has a conflict with the...
+
+00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:56.180
+And also, I try to bind the hint.
+
+00:08:00.440 --> 00:08:00.940
+So when I want to follow a link,
+
+00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:06.300
+So I press a hint key and then like all these
+
+00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:10.320
+links are highlighted with like little
+
+00:08:13.660 --> 00:08:13.860
+letters that I can like choose which 1 I want
+
+00:08:14.820 --> 00:08:15.320
+which link I want to follow.
+
+00:08:20.140 --> 00:08:20.640
+So I try to bind that 1 to J sort of like
+
+00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:24.060
+Control C, Control J, or mode.
+
+00:08:28.780 --> 00:08:29.180
+But apparently there's a conflict here.
+
+00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:33.820
+So when I do both these prompt mode binding
+
+00:08:36.260 --> 00:08:36.760
+and the document mode binding,
+
+00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:40.460
+Yeah, the prompt no longer works.
+
+00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:44.340
+And I reported the bug to Nixt.
+
+00:08:50.500 --> 00:08:50.600
+And yeah, and there was response but there
+
+00:08:52.580 --> 00:08:53.000
+are so many bugs there,
+
+00:08:55.640 --> 00:08:55.940
+and I don't think that bug is very high
+
+00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:00.860
+priority. So yeah, I basically stopped trying
+
+00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:03.660
+that because key mining is very important to
+
+00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:08.100
+[Speaker 2]: Right, but, sorry, please finish.
+
+00:09:15.620 --> 00:09:15.740
+[Speaker 1]: me. Yeah, so I mean, yeah,
+
+00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:17.820
+without key bindings I can't like,
+
+00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:24.440
+I won't. So, okay, I feel this is a very
+
+00:09:29.280 --> 00:09:29.440
+basic functionality. I'm kind of reluctant to
+
+00:09:31.220 --> 00:09:31.560
+[Speaker 2]: Without key bindings, they are.
+
+00:09:32.020 --> 00:09:32.520
+[Speaker 1]: continue trying what These are pieces.
+
+00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:34.540
+[Speaker 2]: It reminds me of 2 points.
+
+00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:36.100
+So yesterday with Stefan we were talking
+
+00:09:37.540 --> 00:09:37.860
+about sane defaults and when he was sleeping
+
+00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:39.600
+today we talked about it again with a
+
+00:09:41.400 --> 00:09:41.900
+speaker. We did the mentor talk.
+
+00:09:43.020 --> 00:09:43.520
+Feel free to re-watch it afterwards.
+
+00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:48.440
+But it's funny how, you know,
+
+00:09:50.920 --> 00:09:51.360
+regardless of how big the package actually
+
+00:09:54.520 --> 00:09:54.820
+is, they always provide some kind of sane
+
+00:09:55.640 --> 00:09:55.960
+default and with Nixed,
+
+00:09:58.620 --> 00:09:59.120
+obviously, it's built with a Vim mentality
+
+00:10:02.020 --> 00:10:02.520
+and modality of key bindings.
+
+00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:06.060
+And for us, we are more used to the Emacs way
+
+00:10:08.040 --> 00:10:08.540
+of doing things. It's a complete blocker.
+
+00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.560
+No matter how great the pieces of
+
+00:10:12.280 --> 00:10:12.780
+functionality behind Nixed are,
+
+00:10:15.060 --> 00:10:15.300
+just the fact that UX-wise we cannot get into
+
+00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:18.340
+it or we cannot have it behave nicely with
+
+00:10:20.280 --> 00:10:20.440
+what we do. It's a massive block that is
+
+00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:22.540
+preventing appropriation of such tools.
+
+00:10:25.940 --> 00:10:26.040
+So it might seem very basic to bounce a
+
+00:10:28.300 --> 00:10:28.800
+package at the level of key bindings but
+
+00:10:29.620 --> 00:10:30.120
+that's what we all do.
+
+00:10:32.800 --> 00:10:33.300
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I totally agree.
+
+00:10:36.180 --> 00:10:36.600
+[Speaker 2]: Right, if I can just interrupt,
+
+00:10:38.520 --> 00:10:38.680
+we have about 2 more minutes of questions and
+
+00:10:40.940 --> 00:10:41.320
+I see people are writing more questions.
+
+00:10:42.180 --> 00:10:42.440
+Did you want to add something,
+
+00:10:43.780 --> 00:10:44.280
+Yucheng? On what we're saying?
+
+00:10:47.620 --> 00:10:48.120
+[Speaker 1]: No, no, no, Let's continue.
+
+00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:51.660
+[Speaker 2]: had plenty of time. Okay,
+
+00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:53.260
+I'm going to ask you to be quick about this
+
+00:10:53.860 --> 00:10:54.060
+1. I'm going to read the question,
+
+00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:54.840
+which is slightly long,
+
+00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:56.400
+and you're going to have about 30 seconds to
+
+00:10:57.720 --> 00:10:58.220
+answer it. Do you feel capable of this?
+
+00:10:59.860 --> 00:11:00.360
+[Speaker 1]: I thought we Yeah, let's try it.
+
+00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:03.360
+[Speaker 2]: Let's try it. At least try it.
+
+00:11:05.208 --> 00:11:05.352
+Okay, so quoting, I find the JavaScript trap
+
+00:11:06.680 --> 00:11:06.820
+almost impossible to avoid since I like to
+
+00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:10.860
+buy used stuff online and use my online bank.
+
+00:11:13.140 --> 00:11:13.460
+How do you deal with a JavaScript trap?
+
+00:11:15.400 --> 00:11:15.640
+I use NoScript and compromise on a few things
+
+00:11:16.760 --> 00:11:17.260
+I really feel I cannot live without.
+
+00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:19.440
+EWW is nice for a lot of things,
+
+00:11:21.260 --> 00:11:21.660
+especially with R for less noise,
+
+00:11:23.760 --> 00:11:24.220
+but I need Firefox for those GS and trapped
+
+00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:26.260
+pages. So do you have a quick answer to this?
+
+00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:29.800
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I don't have a good answer,
+
+00:11:30.640 --> 00:11:31.140
+but I have a quick answer.
+
+00:11:38.140 --> 00:11:38.640
+So I use VPN and like a more,
+
+00:11:41.680 --> 00:11:42.180
+what do you call it, move out the Swedish VPN
+
+00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:43.980
+browser, move out browser.
+
+00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:49.160
+Yeah, so I unfortunately I have to use
+
+00:11:50.660 --> 00:11:50.980
+JavaScript in these cases as well,
+
+00:11:53.800 --> 00:11:54.020
+but I try to minimize the use of these
+
+00:11:54.020 --> 00:11:54.520
+things.
+
+00:11:56.920 --> 00:11:57.040
+[Speaker 2]: How long do you think it will take for us to
+
+00:11:58.140 --> 00:11:58.480
+save the world with Emacs,
+
+00:11:59.340 --> 00:11:59.760
+or save the web at least?
+
+00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:01.560
+5 years, 10 years, maybe a little less than
+
+00:12:01.560 --> 00:12:02.060
+this?
+
+00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:07.000
+[Speaker 1]: Well I think it's, unfortunately it's
+
+00:12:08.300 --> 00:12:08.800
+probably independent of Emacs,
+
+00:12:12.180 --> 00:12:12.680
+like it will only be saved when,
+
+00:12:14.860 --> 00:12:14.970
+like it's saved on like the normal,
+
+00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:19.460
+the more popular browsers like Firefox.
+
+00:12:23.680 --> 00:12:24.060
+I have no clue how long it will take for,
+
+00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:25.620
+I don't know, for example,
+
+00:12:28.660 --> 00:12:29.140
+Tala to pick up so that you can buy things
+
+00:12:30.020 --> 00:12:30.520
+without running JavaScript.
+
+00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:33.340
+[Speaker 2]: Right. Well, I guess we'll have to cross our
+
+00:12:35.380 --> 00:12:35.740
+fingers then for Firefox to save the world.
+
+00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:37.500
+All right Yuchen, we're about out of time,
+
+00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:39.080
+we're moving on to the next talk in 20
+
+00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:40.360
+seconds. Thank you so much for your
+
+00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:42.100
+presentation and for waking up early and
+
+00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:42.780
+answering the question,
+
+00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:45.060
+and I can tell you, you were very alert and
+
+00:12:47.020 --> 00:12:47.520
+definitely more energetic than I was.
+
+00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:53.100
+All right, see you later.
+
+00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:54.440
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you. See you.
+
+00:12:58.400 --> 00:12:58.900
+[Speaker 2]: Bye. And we go to the next talk right now.
+
+00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:03.120
+[Speaker 0]: You are currently
+
+00:13:15.260 --> 00:13:15.760
+you