WEBVTT
NOTE I would love to see the GUI interacting with the scheduling stuff
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...volume of code I've written that.
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I will do a follow-up video with the kind of synchronized
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elisp-mode stuff because that is the point of the talk. Sorry
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for talking over you. Please continue.
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sachac is saying (car kill-ring).
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Oh, yeah, so this question, they're just asking in the
NOTE Q: Or any other GUI stuff you've worked on in the past that you'd be comfortable showing?
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Scratchpad, is there any other GUI stuff I've worked on in
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the past? I guess my Toobnix channel, I was doing a bunch of
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that, so just Common Lisp development, homed around
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McCLIM. What is my Toobnix channel? If you find a Toobnix
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channel and it has a name like Screwtape, that'll
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presumably be that. So Toobnix is SDF.org's PeerTube.
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Nope, not that one.
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Sacha's got it here in the IRC. I think it's
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screwtape_channels/videos. Yeah. So the
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author of mastodon.el, which hopefully lots of us are using
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for our mastodoning, I used the name Screwtape as my
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username, and I think Wintermute said some kind of
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exasperated Emacs theme. You know what? Screw Lisp. Then
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Mousebot of mastodon.el rechristened me screwlisp. So
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sometimes you see my name written one way, and sometimes you
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see my name written the other way. I quite like it. A lot of
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people thought that I was quitting Emacs when I changed my
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name to be mainly screwlisp. I love it. That's a great story.
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Thank you. It's so great to have a name from somebody else. I
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was just thrilled. So thank you, mousebot. Everyone use
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mousebot's mode. Welcome to Green Guest. I'm with you
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there. All my kids want to choose their own names, and I'm
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just like, more power to you. I'm very glad that my parents
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picked mine for me, and that's one thing I never had to think
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about. All right, so do we have to cut short so I can go back to
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watching MPV? of the other stuff. We don't have to, but you
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are not obligated to sit here one moment more answering our
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questions than, you know, but of course, you know, we've
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talked a little before, but I, so I have a pile of questions.
NOTE Lispy Gopher Show
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You promised to come on the Lispy Gopher show. That's right.
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I have so much to say. I could, I could, I could come right on
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your show and just talk to you there, but I'm just curious.
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Talk to us a little bit about that. Tell us more about the
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program. Oh, the Lispy Gopher climate. What do we do? So it's
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hosted by the Superdimensional Fortress, SDF.org, who are
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a public access Unix mainly. They do their own little radio
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thing as well. And so I guess for a few years now, I do a weekly
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show every zero hundred hours UTC. We always start off with
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kind of climate crisis topics, because that is a climate
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crisis topic. But there's a sort of joy in that, because Kent
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Pitman, who Kent Pitman you're familiar with from the
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Pit Manual and so forth, writes a kind of climate crisis
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haiku, which we kind of lead out with, and we kind of go into
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the discussions there. Then obviously the show has- It's a
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highlight, not gonna lie. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I try and do
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these dramatic readings, but it's often stumble over.
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Actually, when Sacha was on, there was an auxiliary poem
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that happened, which was pretty interesting, too. What was
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I going to say? Then, I mean, the way we got named the Lispy
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Gopher Climate was because, broadly speaking, I like to
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talk about kind of lisp, and most of my writing for a long time
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was on the Gopher. Though I accidentally locked myself out
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of the Gopher recently, so there hasn't been an update there
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for a while. I'm kind of around the IRCs and Mastodon quite a
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bit now. Lisp, I like to use the term Lisp inclusively,
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basically. Obviously this talk, I was making the point that
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I just could go through a 1978 paper written in, and so pre-D
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machine inter-LISP, right? And it basically just worked in
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modern Emacs LISP. Somebody was pointing out to me, who
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pointed out where I was like, I don't know what PUT is in,
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in Emacs Lisp, and somebody was saying definitely there's
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put in Emacs Lisp. So I'm going to come back to the recording
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of this talk, and I'm going to just pinpoint this moment the
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next time somebody says, we need to modernize Lisp. I'm
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going to say, no, no, no, this is modern Emacs Lisp. You see,
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here's people talking about, yeah, I'm just tripping over,
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not tripping over, I'm amused by your phrase there, but
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that's exactly how I see it too. And I take your point utterly
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that, you know, this tradition of Lisp of carrying forward
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ideas. And, you know, we, you know, especially in Emacs, it
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really is like a brain trust, right? Buckets of knowledge of
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how to get some sort of work done, or, you know, how to work
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with some kind of code or some kind of data. Yeah, but I had a
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kind of, interesting experience with some great friends of
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mine, whom I love dearly. Vidak, if you're watching this,
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I'm gossiping about you people over in Australia there.
NOTE Lisp already did it
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Where people come to you with really exciting ideas that
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seem to be very cutting edge and like, you know, very much the
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current talk of the day, like you can hear in other
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programming languages, and they're telling you how they
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think you might be able to do this in Lisp. And you have to say,
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well, you know, if we go back to the late 70s, where the Lisp
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community really kind of pioneered this topic already.
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Here's how we did it in the late 70s. And there's actually
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quite a kind of awkward, just kind of disjunction there. I
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mean, that's the thing, right? Where use of Emacs in
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particular use of Lisp in general will unravel somebody's
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whole big bag of wind that they've built up around why
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something has to be rebuilt and well right but that's just a
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function you know it's data so we'll probably just think
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about that as I don't know sitting in a variable.
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Oh, so that whole problem, like the elegance of a solution
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can entirely fall away once you fall back to an earlier way of
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thinking about it. And then, you know, look at the pieces
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you've carried forward the idea of the declarative
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language, right? Declaring user experience. Yeah. Once
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again, tangentially to, um, to the actual talk we've just
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watched, which I will try and follow up on as well. But one
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example was After watching me use the Common Lisp loop
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facility so much, Kent pointed out to me, hey, you know, why
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don't you try using Richard Waters' series iteration
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stuff, which was kind of lazy evaluation of series that
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Waters did. And so after criticizing Haskell for a long
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time, me kind of saying, hey, you know, I don't think this
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lazy evaluation is important. then Kent pointed out to me
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that, for example, the series, like what is it? AIM 1082 or
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something published in 1989 was Lazy Evaluation in LISP
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with series. And so I thought, well, once I realized that
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this was part of kind of almost classic LISP history to have
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lazy evaluation, I adopted series, I kind of had to rethink
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my LISP worldview to realize it did already include lazy
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evaluation, which I attributed to the late 80s. And then
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when I actually read a little bit further, lazy evaluation,
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depending on your research group, has been, was kind of
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established in the late 70s by Waters again, actually.
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Sorry for the anecdote, just kind of the interesting
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medley. Not at all.
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Yeah.
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Ellis over in the IRC has come up with a good slime about
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async. Oh, I see. So yeah,
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I guess that would work. I have to try that. OK, so you're just
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getting me reading this. They have had a stab at resolving
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our asynchronous calls thing more elegantly than me. Left
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as an exercise to the listener. It's one of the big virtues of
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something like a convention. It'll bring us together with
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other people that can kind of see past the boats in our eyes.
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Oh yeah, that's easy for me. Yeah, definitely. Hearing
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somebody else's kind of thought process from you and from
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just the past speaker who was Robin, I think, because this
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was in the morning for me, so I just kind of got up and caught
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some of Robin. Yeah, it's so great, kind of vicariously
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experiencing somebody else's Emacs usage and how it kind of
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subtly backs onto their own development flows. Yeah, so I
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really appreciate this talk. I'm constantly cribbing from
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everyone I meet. And yeah, this talk has been eye-popping,
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just watching you casually navigate Emacs, actually.
NOTE IELM
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Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I enjoyed discovering IELM mode.
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That was going to be my other question for people. Are there
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any IELM Power users around? I could really go for an
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EmacsConf talk on IELM mode. Aha, yes. Very good. Note
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taken. Yeah. So, just thoughts for next year? Oh, well, I
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kind of want to get back onto the MPV, but thank you so much for
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this. You are cmak in the IRC, right? I am Corwin, same as you.
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So you're Corwin. There's also cmak, and I guess there are a
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few other people. Sorry that I'm tripping over the
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different people here. But you're going to come on the Lispy
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Gopher Climate later. Sure, I'm happy to. That sounds
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like fun. I always got a million things to talk about me or an
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opinion on everything. But of course, my favorite thing to
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talk about is just the huge thanks that, you know, sharing
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that, the generosity or the, you know, my appreciation for
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you and all the other members of the Emacs community that
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create talks like this and make the conference and the rest
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of the community so rich. Well, yeah, and thank you for your
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work. Sacha is just saying over in Lambda that when I say I
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want someone to give the talk, this means I'm volunteering
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to give the IELM talk. That's what I wrote down. Oh, yeah. I've
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been working for Sacha. I mean, helping Sacha with this
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conference for years. I know. No, I'm kidding. That would be
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cool. I will absolutely go to your ielm talk. I make a lot of use
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of that and could do more. Yeah, we're meant to suddenly
NOTE Q: Are we going to get a McCLIM LambdaMOO client?
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stop. But a guest over in Lambda also said, are we going to get
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a McCLIM LambdaMOO client? And I actually had all my kind of
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Moo stuff I'd written in Common Lisp, which I was thinking of
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just kind of jettisoning. But you're right, I should make
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that into a client for Common Lisp. Anyway, I'm going to hang
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up so I can keep watching the conference sounds good so we'll
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just cut away with the stream throw some music and a
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countdown uh back on give us just a second to make that on bbb
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and then i'll give you the big thumbs up thank you thank you
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recording here we'll get it all posted up uh right next to
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your awesome pre-recorded talk
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thanks again like it's been fun chatting and uh Yeah,
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definitely seeing you around in the conference channel off
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off season. So to speak, you're like, you're totally
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welcome to use our chat like it to the extent you need to IRC
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channel that's been working on great for me. It's fun to fun
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to see it.
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All right, I'm gonna hang up this thing. All right. Happy day
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flowy. Sorry, I mean, screwlisp. Oh my gosh, I have
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conference brain. Bye bye. All right, later, later.
