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WEBVTT

00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:03.679
uh okay so the first question is is uh

00:00:03.679 --> 00:00:05.600
do you think that this package can be

00:00:05.600 --> 00:00:08.000
included into Emacs or

00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:12.320
uh empire uh

00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:15.360
I think uh it most definitely can is

00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:18.560
just a matter of paperwork but

00:00:18.560 --> 00:00:21.760
the reason I initially wanted to make it

00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.480
like a central package is that so that I

00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:25.039
can

00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:28.720
experiment with it more

00:00:28.720 --> 00:00:31.920
like have more freedom to experiment but

00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.320
eventually I think is a good candidate

00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:35.680
for inclusion into

00:00:35.680 --> 00:00:38.800
core

00:00:38.800 --> 00:00:41.200
and because because currently not in

00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:42.640
corey mass there are a couple of

00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:44.480
problems with it

00:00:44.480 --> 00:00:47.840
mostly in terms of performance

00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:50.960
for example like anytime we want to

00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.280
access the text in a buffer we need to

00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:54.160
make

00:00:54.160 --> 00:00:57.360
a copy of the text into a string

00:00:57.360 --> 00:01:00.480
and then right after reading from that

00:01:00.480 --> 00:01:03.520
text we need to free it right away and

00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:05.280
that results in a lot of garbage

00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:09.040
collection so it would be better

00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.920
either the treasure could be included in

00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:12.240
core

00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:15.680
imax or dynamic dynamic model support

00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:16.799
can be

00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:19.439
augmented with direct text access

00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:24.080
somehow

00:01:24.080 --> 00:01:26.400
so the second question is will release

00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:27.200
performance

00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.320
be more competitive with cce max

00:01:30.320 --> 00:01:33.040
enough so electricity in english is more

00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.670
attractive

00:01:35.670 --> 00:01:38.240
[Music]

00:01:38.240 --> 00:01:43.439
I think it's possible but uh yeah

00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:45.840
not sure about the amount of effort it

00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:46.799
can be

00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:52.960
multi-years effort and one thing that

00:01:52.960 --> 00:01:56.479
even though gce max can make uh

00:01:56.479 --> 00:02:00.719
it is fast enough there's

00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.119
there's one thing that it uh cannot have

00:02:03.119 --> 00:02:05.280
which is that because it's the lisp

00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:09.679
it needs the garage collector so

00:02:09.679 --> 00:02:12.480
we may experiment experience some kind

00:02:12.480 --> 00:02:14.000
of

00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.360
gcc post if we use live whereas the

00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:19.920
currently transistor is written in c

00:02:19.920 --> 00:02:28.400
so there's no such latency

00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:31.040
the next question is do you think three

00:02:31.040 --> 00:02:32.400
sister would be useful

00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:36.080
for all buffers I can imagine it being

00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.319
used to keep a post ast about an arc

00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:39.599
buffer

00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:42.560
light off element and update it in real

00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:43.920
time

00:02:43.920 --> 00:02:46.239
yeah actually this is a very interesting

00:02:46.239 --> 00:02:47.760
idea

00:02:47.760 --> 00:02:50.800
I saw someone started

00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.760
resistor grammar for all already I don't

00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:55.120
have a link right now but

00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:58.159
I can look for it

00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:01.040
I'll try looking for it and put the link

00:03:01.040 --> 00:03:01.680
in

00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:09.599
here later

00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:13.280
yeah yes someone has written here the uh

00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.519
and the biggest problem with uh right

00:03:15.519 --> 00:03:17.040
now is that it doesn't have

00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:21.360
formal grammar so

00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:22.380
so the effort

00:03:22.380 --> 00:03:24.400
[Applause]

00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:27.120
be quite big I think but but once we

00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:28.799
have that because the

00:03:28.799 --> 00:03:31.519
tree sitter can be run on the web as

00:03:31.519 --> 00:03:34.239
well

00:03:34.239 --> 00:03:37.440
we can on the web and in many other

00:03:37.440 --> 00:03:38.080
places

00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.720
if we have a grammar for a traditional

00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:41.840
grammar for all

00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:45.680
we can bring off more

00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:49.680
like everywhere that's a very cool

00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:56.000
thought

00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.080
next one is could this be used with

00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.480
packages like smart parents that aim to

00:04:00.480 --> 00:04:03.200
bring structural editing to

00:04:03.200 --> 00:04:07.120
non-s expression based languages

00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:11.360
yes that is actually one of the

00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:14.720
intended use cases initially

00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:17.280
it's definitely possible but it's just

00:04:17.280 --> 00:04:18.880
that no one has

00:04:18.880 --> 00:04:37.199
only started writing the integration yet

00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.639
and next one

00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:41.919
could you show the source that was

00:04:41.919 --> 00:04:45.040
matched by the parser in the debug view

00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:48.479
in addition to the grammar part matched

00:04:48.479 --> 00:04:54.960
uh yeah that's actually um

00:04:54.960 --> 00:04:57.759
on my to-do list but I haven't had time

00:04:57.759 --> 00:04:59.280
for it yet

00:04:59.280 --> 00:05:02.560
so uh if you go to the treesita

00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:06.560
website it also has an

00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:08.800
online playground where you can input

00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.000
the code and see the

00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.400
parse tree in real time and it's

00:05:14.400 --> 00:05:16.000
actually

00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:19.360
a lot more fancy than what we have in

00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.840
imax currently so

00:05:22.840 --> 00:05:25.919
yeah I just don't have time for it yes

00:05:25.919 --> 00:05:27.120
so

00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:30.320
some help here would be

00:05:30.320 --> 00:05:38.700
very appreciated

00:05:38.700 --> 00:05:49.919
[Music]

00:05:49.919 --> 00:05:52.000
the next question is will it ever be

00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.240
possible to write resetter grammars in a

00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:55.280
lisp

00:05:55.280 --> 00:06:00.560
or will javascript be required

00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:02.800
yeah that is already answered in the

00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:05.280
part so the

00:06:05.280 --> 00:06:07.600
the transcript is actually just used as

00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:08.639
a sort of

00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:12.160
preprocessor so the

00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:14.639
python generator actually works on the

00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:15.680
on a json

00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.280
structure so uh it's definitely possible

00:06:19.280 --> 00:06:20.240
to replace

00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:29.039
javascript with lists for this

00:06:29.039 --> 00:06:31.280
how extensive will the compatibility

00:06:31.280 --> 00:06:32.160
between

00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:35.360
highlighting grammars for e-max and

00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:35.840
those

00:06:35.840 --> 00:06:44.560
for veeam nail view

00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.720
so so right now the

00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:51.680
nail vim and Emacs used a different set

00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:52.000
of

00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:55.440
the highlighting queries and

00:06:55.440 --> 00:06:59.520
item probably uses another set of

00:06:59.520 --> 00:07:03.039
patterns as well I think it makes sense

00:07:03.039 --> 00:07:04.960
because

00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:07.680
each editor has its own like existing

00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:08.479
conventions

00:07:08.479 --> 00:07:11.919
for syntax highlighting so

00:07:11.919 --> 00:07:15.599
at least in the beginning I don't expect

00:07:15.599 --> 00:07:18.560
there is any compatibility between

00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.599
different editors

00:07:21.599 --> 00:07:27.280
but I think in the long run it will be

00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:29.520
would it better if there's some kind of

00:07:29.520 --> 00:07:31.360
effort to

00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.880
unify the at least provide the

00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:37.440
most common patterns that should work

00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:42.840
across

00:07:42.840 --> 00:07:51.759
editors

00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:53.520
next one is could there be a

00:07:53.520 --> 00:07:55.280
standardized approach

00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:57.919
to coding automatic refactoring in the

00:07:57.919 --> 00:08:01.039
future

00:08:01.039 --> 00:08:02.639
so that whichever language mode you're

00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.160
using you could see many

00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:12.960
available refactoring operations

00:08:12.960 --> 00:08:16.400
I'm not sure about this because the

00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:19.919
like

00:08:19.919 --> 00:08:22.240
most of uh refactoring operations are

00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:23.840
actually very

00:08:23.840 --> 00:08:26.960
like highly specific to a language or at

00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:28.720
least to class of

00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:33.599
class of languages so

00:08:33.599 --> 00:08:37.839
so so maybe it's not like uh one single

00:08:37.839 --> 00:08:40.719
approach for all the languages but maybe

00:08:40.719 --> 00:08:41.519
uh

00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:43.760
one for object-oriented oriented

00:08:43.760 --> 00:08:44.959
languages

00:08:44.959 --> 00:08:50.160
one for lisp like language for example

00:08:50.160 --> 00:09:02.959
maybe one for javascript and typestream

00:09:02.959 --> 00:09:05.360
next question is uh I'm completely new

00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:07.519
to trisita how do I use it

00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:10.160
as an end user is there any easy example

00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:11.519
config out there

00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:14.000
the organizer otherwise that shows

00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:15.440
standard usage

00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.960
with whatever programming language

00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:20.480
[Music]

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yeah there's no um

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uh actually that uh so the project has

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the documentation

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site but it's not very expensive yet

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I think we need to add more examples

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to the documentation

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can language major mode authors start

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taking advantage of this now

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or is it intended to be used as a minor

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mode

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uh actually it's both so it's intended

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to be used

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as a minor mode but it's also intended

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to

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be depended on by the major mode

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so basically it it wants to be a minor

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mode

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that is dependent on by the other

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major modes

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and by it here I mean the the base

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minor mode tree system mode

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so uh question

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11 is it possible to use this

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for refactoring tool

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uh yeah but

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um like for the kind of refactoring

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inside uh

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buffer it is uh

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it's very doable right now but you need

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to write some glue code

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but for for the kind of more

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extensive refactoring where you want to

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touch

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uh like all files in a project

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there needs there needs to be some kind

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of the project

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and another project and uh

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understanding of the language uh model

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system

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like how they are laid out in the file

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system as well

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and with that understanding that there

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should be passing of

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the files even files on the file system

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that

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are not yet loaded into Emacs

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so that sounds like something more

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a lot more

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a lot more extensive

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and it probably probably sounds like

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something

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something like an id in uh inside your

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max already like a replacement for

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for lsp

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so next question is the that pop-up mx

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window

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how do you get that

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is the custom hem code I wrote a long

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time ago

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but but right now the best way to

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to have something like that is probably

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the what is written here like uh

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ham boss frame or iv spring

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is a lot easier now

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is there a folding mode for tree sitter

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nowadays there's no folding mode for

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three sitters yet

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but uh

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uh but I think it would better be better

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if it's integrated with the

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like current currently there are

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multiple

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I'm not sure they're moving forward

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there are like code folding frameworks

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inside imax already or some the

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code showing packages like third party

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packaging

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and I think it's better to integrate

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with these mods

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rather than writing something new

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entirely

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are there any language major modes that

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have integrated already

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uh not yet

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so the there was a proposed web assembly

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mode

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but it's a new major mode in terms of

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existing major mode there is the

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typescript mode

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but they're only discussing about

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integration

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they're not integrated yet

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I think I can try writing the

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integration

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sometimes next month

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uh basically what they want right now is

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the

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syntax highlighting and handling

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synthetic highlighting and

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code indentation for tsx

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which is the embedded react

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syntax inside typescript

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so it turns out passing these tests

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is very troublesome so

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so trees that would be a crystal would

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be a lot of help there

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is there any link to the slides yes

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I'll post it in irc later

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regarding imax integration we will

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always need to be a foreign library or

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can it be included

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linked directly in compilation

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uh if if this is about the

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core library itself

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then I think it's uh answered it in the

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first question

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right now is a right now it's a

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dynamic model but in the long run it

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will better if

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it's included in core Emacs

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for the language definitions themselves

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it should be better if they are

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distributed uh

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separately like that right now so each

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uh for each language there will be a

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shared

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library that will be loaded by the core

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library at runtime

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so the last question is the python mode

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example is pretty good

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is that something that one can use

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already

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yes I'm using it at work right now

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I think that's all for that's all the

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questions right

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you are now unmuted yeah I think that's

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all the questions on the pads so far um

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so thank you but um there may be more

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questions coming on irc

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um I'll try to have a look

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and we still have about 10 or 15 more

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minutes so

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um there's no rush to wrap up in case um

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anyone has any more questions

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uh yeah I just realized that uh I mixed

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up the

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video editing and I uh lost an entire

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session on the

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introduction to treesita oh

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no worries

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you are now muted

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sounds like a perfect opportunity for

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you to redo the introduction if you'd

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like to

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uh actually uh forgot a lot of that

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and I'm with uh tired now so no I don't

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think I can do it

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it's uh 30 minutes until my bedtime

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oh yeah yeah okay you are now unmuted

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so in that case maybe we should

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um we should let tona

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get started going to bed and um and

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I mean then I will figure out what to do

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with the time

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should we start the next talk early

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since it's pre-recorded

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um yeah we can do we can do that um

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but um yeah tonight it you know right

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now it's pretty late there um no worries

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but

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yeah if you know over the next few days

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or weeks

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if you would like to um you know

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do a quick pre-recording or recording

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to add the introduction and then stitch

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it in with what you had already sent me

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um by all means please do that and I

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will upload the edited version

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uh yeah yeah I'll try to do that

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thank you yep thank you so much bye